Rebuilding from Zero: ADHD, Addiction, and Finding Yourself

Join Coach Kevin and Eric Fischer as they sit down to talk about identity, addiction, and the slow work of becoming someone new.

They dig into why alcohol isn't usually the problem (it's the solution to one), how chronic pain, professional setbacks, and family stress can quietly fuel a drinking problem, and why so many high-achievers don't recognize addiction until it has them by the throat. You'll hear about the late-in-life ADHD diagnosis that changed everything, and why stripping away identity,  even the "alcoholic" label  can be the doorway to becoming someone new.

You'll also hear how to navigate social events, travel, and everyday triggers alcohol-free, why "less is more" applies to recovery and daily life, the difference between being consistent and truly persistent, and why starting absurdly small isn't weakness — it's the work. They explore the link between ADHD, impulsivity, and addiction, the neuroscience of rewiring your brain, and the role community and honest self-reflection play in long-term sobriety.

If you've ever felt defined by a role, a profession, or a habit you can't seem to shake, this episode is a reminder that your story isn't finished and the next chapter starts with one small honest step.

The Reframeable podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the #1 app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. If you have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast@reframeapp.com or, if you're on the Reframe app, give it a shake and let us know what you want to hear.

Transcript

Kevin Bellack (00:05)

Welcome everyone to another episode of the reframe mobile podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more. Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellac. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app.

Eric Fischer (00:42)

Hello everybody, my name is Eric Fisher. I'm also a coach at Reframe on the Recovery Coach. I focus more so on the lifestyle and performance whereby our tools are important. I do focus on the lifestyle component of it more so than the tools, but yeah, I'm happy to be here with you today, Kevin.

Kevin Bellack (00:56)

Yeah, yeah,

I would say same with that the more of the behavior change, that type of thing, figuring out what it is. That I mean, that's what helped me right figuring out what it's what's the reason why I reached for a drink. Because I've tried plenty of times being like, I am not going to drink and thinking that was all I had to do or say. But yeah, it's changing all those other components.

Eric Fischer (01:15)

yeah.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. You know, I tried everything. I tried doing all the research on Google and knocking back, you know, starting at X amount of beers. And then each day you drop down. That didn't work. you know, avoiding places didn't work. And, you know, the brain rewires. And I was a binge drinker and...

You don't know what you don't know either. You know, I think that's important to recognize because I was, I was entirely naive to alcoholism. Of course you hear about it and it's kind of, it's kind of like, well, that's not me. That's not me, you know, until it is and, and mental health and, and all of that. And, I started to change when I, when I was forced to look at what I did not want to look at. And that took me on a spiral, took me on a spiral upwards and,

You know, I'm blessed. I'm grateful to be able to honestly be here with you today because it was, it was one heck of a, of a fight to overcome that. So it's not easy.

Kevin Bellack (02:16)

Yeah. Yeah.

No, not at all. Um, and that's the thing. It's like, you, I don't know what I don't know. You said, I believe that's how you put it. Right. Um, and that's so true because, you know, I said it, I hear it a lot. People will be like, I just want to do it myself. Or, uh, I've tried to do it myself. I was hesitant to reach out for help of any kind, whether that's getting a coach, whether that's just downloaded in an app, whether that's going to a meeting somewhere.

Yeah, anything. It's like I can do it.

Eric Fischer (02:47)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was my mindset. It was exactly my mindset. You know, I've overcome hard things before I can get rid of this. I can overcome this too. And it doesn't really. And ultimately, I was lying to myself. You know, I had the mindset. I was so was so naive. I had the mindset of not only can I can I overcome this myself, which which first required me to admit that I had a problem and and

Kevin Bellack (02:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (03:14)

because otherwise it's like, don't have a problem. So I've got a lot of blind spots and other people want to help. And it's very challenging for those in your circle to your family and your friends, et cetera, because they don't know what to do. and neither does the person who's an addiction either. I mean, you know that every drink you have, you know that it's, that it's not good for you. And you know that you're distilling yourself downwards. But yet.

Yeah, the blind spots looking back on it, the blind spots I had were profound and and and you know, I think opening up and there's great strength and asking for help.

Kevin Bellack (03:48)

Yeah, yeah.

And you had mentioned overcoming things, know, overcoming hard things before. And I would argue and I would have said the same thing. And we do. I would argue for myself. It was not an argument. I would just say for myself, I overcame a lot of hard things and difficult things, and whether it was work or whatever with alcohol, like it was the thing I used for stress, anxiety.

Eric Fischer (04:11)

Yeah. yeah.

Kevin Bellack (04:15)

relaxation, connection, all of that. while it only reinforced the fact that it was helpful to me, at least I thought so. Right. Well, everything that we're talking about here, too, is, you know, everything you're mentioning already is, you know, part of your story, which is why we're here today. Right. So Eric's going to share with us ⁓ his journey with related to alcohol is however you want to.

Eric Fischer (04:35)

Thank you.

Kevin Bellack (04:42)

put it out there with you know on this episode here but I'll just turn it over to you and let you kind of go ahead and share with us today.

Eric Fischer (04:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. I'll keep the the intro short, I suppose, and we can we can we can branch out and stay away from there. I'm forty six, two daughters, ten and thirteen. And I was at a young age when we talk about identity, I was defined by being an athlete. And I was I was a baseball and basketball player and baseball took me into.

the professional level, professional ranks with the Chicago White Sox and Minnesota Twins. I was in the minor leagues. I never made it to the big leagues. That was obviously the goal. Played eight years and change and had four surgeries. So when we talk about overcoming hard things as a starting pitcher, I had these surgeries that were just keeping me, you know, keeping me in the minor leagues and each one of those was not easy to overcome, but I was defined by the sport.

And I was forced out of the game. You're either an asset or a liability. And I was forced out of the game after eight and change years. was 20, roughly 26. And I had only wanted to do two things in my life. So one was play professional baseball and the other was make movies. had always been enthralled with how did they make these movies? You know, I'd go to Blockbuster a couple of days a week and rent movies and all this. And I know, right.

Kevin Bellack (06:04)

Age test.

luckbuster.

Eric Fischer (06:07)

Blockbuster. Yeah. And Hollywood video. Remember them too. but yeah, you know, so from a very early age, those were the two things that I had always wanted to do. had this kind of inside secret that I was not able to disclose publicly. And that was my creative side. I'm, I'm very ADHD and I'm left-handed and those, you know, you know, again, you don't know what you don't know. And I grew up in a world. went to Mueller high school, very well known high school that, that,

Kevin Bellack (06:08)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (06:34)

graduates out a lot of athletes and and I fit into that bucket but it was all boys German Catholic my dad was Vietnam my grandfather World War two and it was very much like you know if you fall you're not hurt shake a firm hand keep the gas pedal down be a man suck it up but yeah it was all that you know it was all that so I was around a lot of these finger pointers and that always kind of rubbed me the wrong way because now I know

Kevin Bellack (06:49)

Tape an aspirin to it, rub some dirt on it. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (07:03)

more about myself and I, and I know I'm, emotional and I'm empathetic and I'm, I, I, I, I go hard and I used to play hard as well. And, and so post baseball that, that took me into, I was going to college at university of Cincinnati. I owned a little condo downtown and I owned a baseball facility. So another big part of my life has been training athletes and, helping the parents and coaches and organizations and on the mental and the physical side of the game. And when you're in the minor leagues, you need the money.

And so that's where it started. And then I found that I, that I really enjoyed it. And so I've, I've owned a few baseball facilities, but, so that was my life post baseball. I sold my baseball facility, rented out my condo, packed my keyboard and a bunch of clothes. And I went to LA and got degrees in film production and media law from Cal State, university Northridge. And by the time I had graduated, I was making short films and I made one feature film and

And I was, and then I met my future wife and things were going well, you know, but I was defined by becoming a filmmaker as well. And I had 15 years of success in that industry. Well, let me rephrase that. I all 15 years were not success. I grew into that and I earned that, you know, because my mindset going into

Kevin Bellack (08:10)

Thank

Eric Fischer (08:18)

moving to LA was Spielberg was not going to knock on my door. I was going to find his. And so I was relentless, I will say, and it gripped me. Those two industries gripped me with an intrinsic motivation to succeed. so, and drinking up to this point was very, I'd say casual. You you're at the business meetings and you're having a glass of wine and cocktail, what have you, and then you'd be at the golf course and

and have drinks and do the barbecue afterwards with your buddies. ⁓ But go ahead.

Kevin Bellack (08:46)

Was that ⁓

casual up to this point in your life or just in that like movie LA type scene? Like how about with baseball? Okay.

Eric Fischer (08:57)

⁓ yeah, in

my life. Yeah, we were drinking in baseball. Yeah, but I never, I never woke up. It was the typical 23 to 25 year old single guy who's going out, going out with buddies. you know, we'd, we'd have some drinks, but it never, mean, I, I certainly was what was in the front of my brain as an athlete was my body is my temple and I treated it as such. And, and, and

Kevin Bellack (09:07)

Okay. Yeah, okay.

Eric Fischer (09:23)

Now, having the ability to look back, the tendency was always there, though. You know, like I would always have like that one extra at the end of the night and I would start maybe a little earlier than that. That that whole that whole pregame thing before you go out. You know, I was I was I liked the shots and I liked to, you know, I do everything fast. Everything like drinking was fast, too. So.

Kevin Bellack (09:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because you mentioned ADHD.

And this is more of a curiosity for me. It's if you don't mind me asking, like, when were you when did you find out you had that or when were you diagnosed? Was it early in life later in life? OK.

Eric Fischer (09:56)

Later,

during my recovery. And yeah, and I didn't know anything about it. You know, I was so your ADHD as well.

Kevin Bellack (09:59)

Yeah, same.

Yeah, am and I

diagnosed like four years ago, I guess I was 42. yeah, I kind of knew. Yeah, I kind of knew like my therapist and I were talking about it like seven years ago. I was like, what do you think about this? And then she was sitting there reading me the the questions that they ask you and all that. And we were talking about it. And she's like, yeah, you're probably that you probably have ADHD or you probably know whatever. But

Eric Fischer (10:09)

Yeah. Yeah. And did that break?

Kevin Bellack (10:30)

I didn't get a diagnosis until I switched careers and because it was more, it became glaringly obvious without the structure of my corporate tax job. I had an issue. And how about you? How'd that show up?

Eric Fischer (10:43)

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny.

Yeah. was, it's been ADHD became, became popular. If you want to call it that when we were maybe seventh or eighth grade where, where everybody was saying, he's so ADHD. it's when, when we think of ADHD, we think of that hyperactive boy, but it doesn't, it doesn't always present itself that way. and, but, but I, you know, I, I have, I, I, I was impulsive.

Kevin Bellack (10:54)

And that's what you mean.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Eric Fischer (11:12)

chasing the high with all the dopamine and so the caffeine and the nicotine and the alcohol and the sex and the like all those all those euphoric kind of you know I was a kid climbing to the very top of the tree being in the middle of the tree wasn't good enough for me and so I always had that kind of extra umph and then and then interestingly as well that I've learned is the creative field the entrepreneur the independent thinker the athlete

Kevin Bellack (11:16)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (11:40)

those fields are disproportionately comprised of ADHDers because of the processing speed. You know, they say we have a Ferrari brain, bicycle brakes, all that. And that's me to the definition, definition. And, you know, the rejection sensitivity as well, I do carry with me as well. So if you were to say something to me that you may not even meet, whatever you say to me, you don't mean it to be offensive to me, but I take it as,

Kevin Bellack (11:46)

Yeah, bicycle brakes,

Eric Fischer (12:09)

internally I take it as kind of an insult or and then I feel like kind of a lack of in terms of confidence and I take things more personal than somebody else may who's normal.

Kevin Bellack (12:20)

which,

and sorry to take us down that track, we can get back to where you were in LA there, but which lends itself well to minor baseball in general and making movies, right? That's not a good ⁓ necessarily thing to have in those two fields because rejection is ⁓ par for the course, right?

Eric Fischer (12:33)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it does.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I was again, look, you know, to look back, I I was able to. Compartmentalize and differentiate between the rejection in a professional field and then the rejection in my personal life, the personal side for me, like like like the failure, if we want to call it that failure with the arm surgeries and not making it to the major leagues, I took that head on as a challenge.

Kevin Bellack (12:56)

personal.

Mm.

Eric Fischer (13:08)

kind of like the hold my beer and watch me sort of mentality. But in my personal life, if I had a friend make fun of me and was just kind of like being what guys do, like internally, I would kind of shut down. That would affect me negatively. And then you have the escape of having a little bit more drinks to kind of overcome and throw something back at them. And it's all ingest and fun. But for me, at a real level, I took it. It hurt my feelings.

But yet I couldn't say anything because then I'm too sensitive and I'm too, you know, I'm not man enough and yeah, it's all that. yeah. But yeah, it did serve me. It did serve me the pattern recognition, the ability to kind of put pieces together that others couldn't see. I do have that and I'm in tune with that now. And I think that's why I really, I'm more interested in people than I am acquiring things.

Kevin Bellack (13:36)

Yeah, I was just kidding. Come on. Yeah, yeah.

Eric Fischer (14:00)

You know, a lot of people think I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I get the big house and the car and the money and et cetera. But I came through testing through IQ and creativity testing and personality testing and, a number of different tests I put myself through and recovery. came to understand myself and, that really calmed me down. That really helped me overcome and say, you know, I'm enough the way I am. And it's okay to

Kevin Bellack (14:02)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (14:23)

put the brake pad on every so often and just recalibrate and rest. You don't always have to be going a mile a minute all the time no matter what.

Kevin Bellack (14:29)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (14:30)

but it did, it served me. I made a lot of movies, you know, and I opened up a finance division and some big ones, some small ones and had a lot of failures. and, and during this entire time I was coaching athletes and, and I loved that. That was kind of a happy, and I still do, I still do a couple of days a week and that's, that's a happy place for me as well as coaching here at reframe and, and, and helping people to the best of my ability. mean, it's, it's, when we talk about being gripped by something,

entering this space, having overcome alcoholism and just being more secure and rooted in who I am and like a principle sinner-ness, if you will, it gripped me, you know, like that whole thing, you don't know what you don't know. And I fell in love with psychology and neuroscience and philosophy, and I just pay very close attention to that and to better myself and then to help other people turn it around.

Kevin Bellack (15:19)

Yeah, yeah. that's, I find, mean, I find that comes.

For me, that's where I usually start. It's like, what do I need to learn? That's what, because that's what's going to interest me. That's what's going. And with alcohol, obviously, you know, there's a lot of things I needed to learn as far as how do I cope with stress differently? How do I cope with anything? Really? Because alcohol was my coping mechanism for the most part. And so, yeah, mean, going on this.

I know for lack of a better word always journey. I just, I always kind of qualify it cause I'm always trying to think of a different, uh, word because I've said that so many times over the years. Um, but that's what it is. I mean, it's, it's a figuring yourself out, figuring out what can help you figure out what can help other people. Um, so you were making, uh, you know, so you were out in, and I keep saying LA, I don't know that's exactly.

Eric Fischer (16:02)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Bellack (16:16)

Right, basically, OK. So you're out there in like the 2010s? That.

Eric Fischer (16:17)

Yeah, LA, LA, Los Angeles.

Yeah, 27. I moved out there May of May of 07. And and we yeah, so things were going well. And and and both of our daughters were born out there. And and we decided around 2015 going into 16 to move out and.

and go back to Cincinnati, my hometown, because I had been recruited over by a very large tax incentive, film tax incentive company, three point capital, phenomenal firm. And part of which they had an office in Manhattan and then one in LA. And the idea was for us to start going back and forth and

My wife's also a filmmaker and I'm divorced now and that's a great story in and of itself because we found a way to come back together and we're neighbors and there's no there's no parenting rules or anything else. are good friends. think looking back again, we were better off as friends and then a couple that way. But yeah, we have we have a great relationship, very steady. And but at that point time, we wanted to get out of L.A. We had been there for about a decade.

Roughly Joe, I'll just let me say 15 to seven. So yeah, what was that? Eight years or so. Start splitting time between L.A. Living in Cincinnati and then New York. And then we were going to open up a production arm at Three Point Capital. And. It just started falling apart, you know, so three things happened to me that really accelerated my drinking. And and it was I had I had been part of the financing of Paul Walker's last movie before he passed away.

And he, we were in post-production, the movie's called Vehicle 19, and we shot that in Cape Town, South Africa. And he had passed away from the tragic car accident and a lawsuit ensued over his estate. then, so my company's got tangled up and a couple other people as well. then there's borderline personality disorder on the in-law side, and that was problematic.

Kevin Bellack (18:09)

Mm-hmm.

Eric Fischer (18:25)

extremely problematic. And then I shattered a disc in my lower back, my L5S1 on the move to Cincinnati. so I had, I had palpable sciatic nerve pain that was, that ended up in surgery. and then I had these other pieces as well, you know, and my, my self-destruction was, it, it, I couldn't define, I couldn't define what, what was eating me up.

Kevin Bellack (18:39)

Okay.

Eric Fischer (18:53)

Um, I was, I was blind to it, but I would start drinking to numb the physical pain in my back. had a very hard time just sitting and, driving, putting socks on normal course of day and, and, and lift working out for me, uh, has always been a, like a stress reliever, a little bit of a therapeutic type type. Um, I'd liken it to like a little bit of therapy for myself and.

Kevin Bellack (19:00)

Thank

down.

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (19:20)

I couldn't work out and I was stuck in the home and with two very little, small little babies. And there you have it, know, one thing led to another. And I started drinking too much and then it really gets a hold of you. It got a hold of me in a real way and where your body requires it to function. you know, you're in for one heck of a fight when you're ready to take it on.

Yeah, so that kind of is the trajectory in a way. And now we live in Minneapolis and been here for four or five years and things are going well. And, you know, everything is kind of, you know, on the right path here called a journey again. You know, but yeah, it's it's it's a it's a heck of a challenging thing to overcome alcohol. And people say, you know, the one quote that that I keep very close to me is Carl Young's where he says you will find what you need most, where you least want to look.

Kevin Bellack (19:56)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (20:15)

And I took that with the help of my psychologists and coaches. I still work with the same coach, Amy, all the time. And sometimes we have deep conversations and other times it's, you know, more about parenting or something else, but nonetheless, she's in my corner. and, but that, but that quote, I unpacked that and the further you go into yourself, the deeper it becomes and the more spiritual and meaningful it becomes as well.

for me. And so I, I, that's inner work or shadow work. A lot of folks would call it. And yeah, so that's one of the main practices that I implement in my day every morning, every evening. And whether it's writing or just, you know, keeping it up top of my head, thinking about, you know, where is it that I'm, what is it that I'm avoiding? What am I avoiding? And they starts out with big things from childhood. And then, and then the more you do it,

You know, it's more of a maintenance piece for me now just to make sure like, okay, am I aligned? You know, am I in alignment with what I need to be doing here today? So that quote, that quote, I think if somebody takes that quote seriously, you will find what you need most, where you least want to look. You can really turn into somebody.

Kevin Bellack (21:14)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And

I was just looking at one of the books I read recently, but no, think it's downstairs. was, I started reading the, I think it's the War of Art by Steven Pressfield again. And he talks all about like resistance. It's like overcoming your inner creative battles, you know, but he talks about resistance and he, and as you read it, you're like, yeah, I feel this. everybody, everybody has resistance to something.

But he talked about something to that direction of, or to that of, resistance is pointing the way that you need to go. Whatever you're resisting is what you need to do probably the most. And I remember drawing in the corner, I drew a compass. But instead of N for north, I just put R for resistance. So I'm always thinking, ooh, good tattoo idea. But that was, yeah, mean, it's like that.

Eric Fischer (22:14)

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Bellack (22:18)

It points the direction because yeah, I mean, especially with, I don't know my, whether it call it ADHD, just call it me, uh, you know, avoidance, procrastination, all of that, like is a struggle that I always deal with. Um, and have little tricks and things to try and, and to help me. Um, but yeah, that resistance that, uh, that place that you don't want to go to or want to look, yeah, is.

point in the direction, right? We'll look at, we'll look under every single rock besides that one, right? Be like, well, maybe if I just do this thing over here, I won't have to deal with.

Eric Fischer (22:53)

Of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it but it doesn't go away. You know, if it stays under the rug and you close the door to the closet, it's going to haunt you down because you cannot bend the fabric of reality without a snapping back on you. And so, you know, I was on the clock, you know, I couldn't outrun myself. And, you know, I finally was man enough and had the courage and mustered it up to turn around and face it.

And that was and that was the moment and all the way down into childhood from my very first memory all the way up all my relationships. I went as deep as I could. And what I did is I took as I was a centerpiece and I extended out all my relationships, my wife, my mom, my dad, my sister, my my friends. And what I did is I built these kind of like.

avatars in a way on how they would how they saw me and how I saw them and I just mind twist I bent my brain on sheets and sheets and buckets and copious amounts of paper with a pen and just went I built I rebuilt my my entire life through essentialism not I mean at first I started stripping everything I got out of rehab I was in the hospital I waved the flag I was fighting for my life in a real way

I went down to Florida for inpatient rehab and I never thought I'd be that guy. know, I, know, none of us do, none of us want, want to be, have addiction in our life. And, and, and, but here I am where my feet are. I've got a real problem. I'm in the hospital. I've got needles all through me. I'm in inpatient rehab. And like this light bulb went off. It's a really, I have trouble describing it because it's

Kevin Bellack (24:20)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (24:36)

When people talk about like the brain wakes up and you gain consciousness or the spiritual awakening or this aha moment, this tipping point in somebody's life, I felt that down in Okeechobee, Florida. And I didn't know what it meant at all. I'm surrounded by fellow brokenness. And then you have this preconceived notion as to what rehab, inpatient rehab is going to look like, who are the types of people inside of there. And that was all shattered too, because they were just like me.

Kevin Bellack (24:57)

Hmm.

Eric Fischer (25:04)

You know, they had they had all most they had jobs, had families, almost all of them, everybody. They're like 40 of us in this house together. And it was beautiful. Looking back on it was the most magical, like unbelievable thing that I went through. And then I went to IOP and fell in love with psychology. It gripped me like it gripped me. The human behavior of why do we make this choices we make? Why do we treat others better than we treat ourselves and all these kind of

these sayings that we hear about, you know, but we, but, are we paying attention to them? And I was not paying attention. And, and that's, and that takes you on a dive, you know, and, and, and your curiosities take over. And I've learned that we don't have, we don't get to decide what it is that we're curious about. It's like a little, like a little spirit inside of us. It calls us to investigate more about something. And, and I, and I, I took it on, you know, and I'd started reading and then broke myself apart and then built myself back up and

And we know it to be true because of how the brain works and neuroplasticity. And, you know, if you believe it and you want to manifest yourself into somebody new, you can do it.

Kevin Bellack (26:12)

Yeah. Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that. The I was wondering how from before when you were talking about with whether it was baseball making movies, you know, you had alluded to or flat out said like that you were defined by that, right? That was who you were. And.

So how did that feel like going through and going through that process of you mentioned like the avatars of all the people that you come in contact with or that you do, you know, they're in your life and looking at how do they view me, which we don't know, because it's just us thinking about how they view us. But how do how I view them and how I view myself, like how did you?

change that and how do you look at that now as far as, know, and I don't know if this is exactly how it was back, you know, with baseball and making movies, like all the chips in, like, this is who I am, right? Whereas I like to take a more flexible approach now, you know, to any change I want to make because, you know, we're not just one thing. We're not just one person. Not that you were back then, but, know, I was all in.

in a lot of the work I did in my career. And yeah, so how do you look at that now? How has that changed over these past seven years?

Eric Fischer (27:30)

Yeah, I was defined by being a baseball player. You know, I'm Eric Fisher, comma, professional baseball player. And I carried that identity even when I was in high school. I was one of the kids that some kids mature and develop and get to the highest level of their potential later on. was kind of always good at a young age.

And so people were always patting me on the back and great job. And when's your next game? can't wait to everything. Everything in my world revolved around sports, everything, everything, baseball and basketball specifically. And then the game's over. And I remember sitting on the, on the back of my car when the Minnesota twins released me and I thought to myself, what am I going to do? You know, I was defined by those, those, those, those high octane industries, in a real way.

Kevin Bellack (28:21)

Hmm.

Eric Fischer (28:23)

and like tattoo on my arm kind of way. And then when that all goes away, you're left with the void. And through studying, I know you love stoicism as well. So stoicism and like a more fadi Nietzsche, the radical acceptance of, I got rid of everything.

And I view myself as just a man trying to get by, you know, like I tried my best to do. I, I, have a principle center-ness that I've anchored myself in, that, has to do with that's rooted. I'd say more in, I, myself, I like the word integrity as an integral, a man filled with integrity because at a deep level, integrity means how you view yourself first. Cause you can't like, I can't be

I can't help you or I can't be there for you if I don't have integrity for myself first. And so the minimalism took grip of me pretty quick. I'd say I shed the control of all things. And I came to realize I can't control anybody or anything. The only thing I can control is my mind and my body. And I live by a rule of tell the truth and cause no harm.

Kevin Bellack (29:19)

Mm-hmm.

Eric Fischer (29:33)

That's one of the main rules inside of how I, how I live and, and, you know, something simple like that can be extrapolated out and bleed into all areas of your life. and so I, I'd say that the biggest identity shift I, I had the transformation was stripping the baseball player identity, stripping the filmmaker identity, even stripping the, the alcoholic identity.

and setting a vision for myself long-term, tucking goals inside of that, and then boxing myself in underneath here with principles that I live by. So tell the truth, cause no harm, spend less than I make, seek to understand before being understood. That keeps me curious. And a couple other ones, and I, and I live inside of this kind of very fluid, flexible life of

The vision I set for my life is I want to live to be over a hundred years old. And that's rather lofty and abstract. It's a destination, but everything from how I treat my body, the nutrition, everything trickles upwards, I am anchored inside of this, these principles underneath me as foundations. And I can allow myself knowing that I can't control anything, but my brain and my body.

It gives, I feel for me, gives me tremendous amounts of freedom to work inside of those worlds.

Kevin Bellack (30:57)

Yeah.

Yeah, because. You're almost bringing it to your bring it you. Well, you're not almost you're bringing it to like this is all I can. This is all can worry about. This is all can focus on, but also having that long term. Outlook of. How do you marry those two together as far as like, you know, oh, I want to live to be over 100, I can, but I'm focusing on today. I mean, I guess it's.

Does it get overwhelming is my question, I guess, because that's the thing. It's like, I'm doing this day in, day out. And you can get into the weeds with it on a daily basis and burn yourself out that way. following the values and the principles that you're talking about is probably the best way, right? I'm guessing that's where you're going with it.

Eric Fischer (31:47)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, yeah, because, because it, yeah, I can see how it sounds. It sounds convoluted at the beginning, but it's rather simple. I mean, if it does not, if what it is that I do, if it does not fit into living to be over a hundred years old, I don't do it. just, this, answer is very simple. It doesn't fit into my lifestyle, whether that's eating sugar or whether that's playing pickup basketball. Cause if I shatter an ankle,

or get an ACL by when I'm 75 years old, I'll be I'll be limping around. I won't make it. So so. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm very like, you know, at 46 years old, I played a lot of pickup basketball, you know, I get my workouts in. Yeah, I'm mindful. I'm very mindful. And the essentialism of it is if it less is more for me, you know, like, I don't need 10 coffee cups, I need to.

Kevin Bellack (32:18)

Okay, but that makes me think that you're gonna live in a bubble then to protect yourself. Yeah.

Just mindful.

Yeah.

You're I feel I feel personally attacked right now but okay.

Eric Fischer (32:43)

You know, so everything in my life, ⁓

everything I do is essential or I don't do it. And I do what's right, not what's likable. And I understand that that means that not everybody's going to like me, but that's principle, you know? And so... ⁓

Kevin Bellack (33:01)

Yeah, but that also helps

you weed out who you connect with and who connects with you.

Eric Fischer (33:05)

Yeah.

Well, yeah. And you find that out and go into rehab. You find out who's in your corner going through some serious stuff because it's easy to love and be there for somebody when things are easy. ⁓ When things...

Kevin Bellack (33:17)

Yeah. How's the how's the outlook for the baseball

season coming up and all that? Like, yeah, sure. How's it going? But then, Yeah.

Eric Fischer (33:23)

Yeah.

Yeah, when things go, when things, you know, the wheat and the chaff gets separated when you go through hard times. And you know, it shrunk my circle, shrunk my circle, that's for sure.

Kevin Bellack (33:33)

Yeah,

and it's not a bad thing. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, yes, it can be it can hurt. can be sad to lose old friends and things like that. What family members, whatever, however, you know, happens or what whatever happens. Yeah, what's the I always think about this is like, you know, those who mind don't matter. Those who matter don't mind.

Eric Fischer (33:38)

I'm better off for it, yeah.

Yeah, I like that.

Kevin Bellack (33:55)

It's a good kind of rule to think about. If somebody's

giving you shit, maybe they don't matter anymore. It's a harsh kind of way to look at it. I don't go that harsh, like cutting people out just because of that. But yeah, mean, you will have that things will change.

Eric Fischer (34:03)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, it's not it's, it's, it's not all bad. It's, it's not that people are certain people are still in my life, but in a different, in a different way, you know, I'm not at the bar with them hanging out on Saturday afternoon, you know, because if you hang around people in the bar on a Friday night, you are the person in the bar on a Friday night. And so I just, I just don't do it, you know, it's just like,

Kevin Bellack (34:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (34:37)

It's so fascinating to me because I don't have an urge since I left, since I left the hospital. I haven't had an urge to, I can be around this, this past weekend. were in Kansas city before we recorded. was with a bunch of dads, you know, and they were drinking at the bar in between the volleyball games with our 13, not with, not with our 13 year old, but at the tournament. But yeah, you know, I just, um,

Kevin Bellack (34:55)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (35:02)

It just shifts your brain in a way that you got to do the work, you know, and follow what it is that you want to, you want to seek out what you want to learn, to, to better your life. But yeah, when you, when you see it as such, rather than trying to bend it into something, then, then I can manage much easier.

Kevin Bellack (35:22)

Yeah.

Yeah, and if you are...

If something is difficult to. For anybody listening, right, like because I know people will be like, I want to I'm going to do the same things I did before. I'm just not going to drink and all that. And, know, that's where it's like, well, maybe like put your, know, put put yourself in that place and say, you know, is this a is a smart for me to go there right now and do this thing like I just was talking to somebody about this.

I kind of mentioned like, yeah, there's something to be said for exposure therapy. But you don't want to unnecessarily put yourself in a position that, you know, you're not going to be successful in if you're trying to do something, whatever that thing is you're trying to do, whether it's related to alcohol or not. But if you're looking to not drink, be alcohol free, sober, whatever, if you're looking to moderate, and it's not a conducive environment. Yeah, I mean, but over time,

Eric Fischer (35:50)

Mm Yeah, it's curative.

Kevin Bellack (36:11)

You know, I know I found it. It definitely got easier. And now yeah, I mean I can go. Basically do anything I anything you know related that I did before, or if anybody asked me to go somewhere now, I have no problem doing it. I know I'm not going to drink. Took some time to get there. But yeah.

Eric Fischer (36:31)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the beauty of being an individual. We all go at it differently. But yeah, voluntary exposure is curative. Now, if you take that approach, go slow and be around a professional to help you do that.

Kevin Bellack (36:38)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (36:52)

But it does help because those, because the brain rewires the association. And now on the other side of that though, you've got to have somewhere you're going. You know, you have to have somewhere, you have to have something to run from and something to run to. And without that framework.

where we, we revert down the negative emotion and to the escapism, the novelty before, know, at four hours, not just alcohol, four hours have gone by on social media. I mean, that's all not that's dopamine and novelty. And I mean, more and more people are talking, especially with young children talking about the addiction side of social media. I mean, that's real, you know, there's, there's a whole lot of addictions. but if we don't have, if we don't know what we're running from and you talk about an ADHD, you're going to say, I'm not, I'm running from failure. I just don't want to fail.

You know, that's not just the ADHD or but the fear of failure in and of itself can drive somebody. But that's important to know, because then you have your negative emotion working for you behind you, pushing you. But where are you going? You know, and nobody nobody teaches vision. I was never taught that. You know, I was most people, including myself. I was I'll put my hand up staring what's right in front of our face outside of baseball. Major leaguer from a very young age, I saw that vision.

Kevin Bellack (37:47)

Yeah, yeah.

Eric Fischer (38:02)

going to Hollywood, I saw that vision of becoming a successful filmmaker. I didn't know what it meant. I didn't know how I was gonna get there, but with one foot in front of the other, you'd march towards it. But outside of those two worlds, I didn't have anything for myself. Those are professions. Those aren't me. The cup, if I would leave the industry, that cup goes over to someone else who takes my role.

That's Simon Sinek. Simon Sinek says that all the time. He's like, your, your role, your profession is not for you. It's, it's for the role that cup you get that first-class flight, that, that limo that's certain that that service, you know, getting in all the money you make, that's, that's the position. And I, I, I was identified by that. And then when I found the vision for myself and other people say legacy, there's, that's a destination and knowing that we are who we are in our current form. And we are.

Kevin Bellack (38:46)

Mm.

Eric Fischer (38:55)

in the same very fragment of time who it is that we're becoming, that destination can change. Those goals will change. But we need to know where we're going as a vision or one will be assigned to us. And that's that midlife crisis. And then there's your there's there's drinking too much. There's infidelity. There's social media. There's, all the things that are escapes for us.

It wasn't until I was honest with myself. That's, think, maybe a fundamental way to look at it is I was acting as if I was somebody else did not understand or know myself at all. And until I had the again, the courage, the bravery, whatever you want to the vulnerability to say, look, Eric, you're a broken man. And that's OK. You know, that's OK. You know, ask, ask for some help.

Kevin Bellack (39:37)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (39:42)

and take it day by day and go slow and be curious and cry when you need to cry and just lay in a dark room and breathe if you need to do that, go in the gym if you need to do that, go out for a walk or what have you, but it's okay.

Kevin Bellack (39:55)

Yeah.

Yeah, and keep saying that right? I feel like. Yeah, go all good will honey on your ass and just be like it's OK. It's not your fault. It's not your. ⁓

Eric Fischer (39:59)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

well, I think that's real. It's important because we, we, we conjure up, know, like as we get older, we're, life is hard, you know, like, you know, I've heard people say, die living's hard, dying's easy. It's like, wow, we're here and we only have one of these things called life. And so let's make the most of it. And you look internally because we don't know ourselves, you know, we're conditioned by

Kevin Bellack (40:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (40:28)

the parents and the teachers and the coaches and our peers and then it's bosses and professors and so on and so forth. And before you know it, you wake up and you're like, you know, this whole job that I'm doing right now, like that's part of the problem. I'm in the wrong profession.

Kevin Bellack (40:39)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The and that's why I

hate like, because my daughter's going to college next year. I don't hate that. I hate that we have to choose so early what we're gonna do for the rest of our life. And we don't even we have zero idea of who we are, really, or have no experience. just Albany.

Eric Fischer (40:55)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (41:06)

I don't want to say handed to us because we do stuff to get through it, but it's all been. I'm reading another book where it was talking about it's like it's a ladder, right? And it's like, you know, yes, it's difficult. You have to get good grades. have to apply to college. You have to get, you know, take your test score and, you know, a CTS, SATs. And I'm just going from a high schooler standpoint, let's say. But you can go before this, too. And.

you know what the next step on the ladder is on the wrong, what the next wrong is that is. But then you get to college and this is from the book, What Made Maddie Run by Kate Fagan, where she says like, then it's like this tree with just branches going off in all directions and you have a million different options that you can do and you're on your own and there is no next. Yeah, sure. Okay. Take the classes that you're taking it.

get good grades, whatever, keep working, get a degree. So there are, you can point to things, but there's a multitude of options. And it's like, okay, what do I do now? And that's, I know I started as a biology major playing football and two years later I wasn't playing football and I wasn't a biology major.

Eric Fischer (42:07)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm. Mm, okay.

Kevin Bellack (42:19)

that wasn't for me, ⁓ whether it was, it's partly, yeah, the app, the way I applied myself or didn't apply myself. but yeah. and then switched to Mike. Okay. I'll do accounting and nobody's, I'm sure there's somebody out here listening to this, who's very passionate about accounting, but, it's not, wasn't, it wasn't on my, like, when I was growing up, I wanted to be an archeologist. so,

Eric Fischer (42:20)

Yeah.

.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Bellack (42:44)

not a tax accountant. But yeah, and so, and we, it's, see it everywhere too. Uh, yo, oh, what do you do for a living? Right? Not, not what do you enjoy? What do you like doing? You know, it's what do you do? I'm going to define you by that. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (42:55)

Of course, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's a status question. That's

a status question. Same, same thing with, you believe in God? That's a status question or like checking on, you know, first of all, that, that, that question, do you believe in God is not a, not a yes or no answer. that's if you're on the believing side, we don't need to get into, you know, the religious side of life here, but, you know, that, reminded me in some ways of the study. ⁓

Kevin Bellack (43:16)

Yeah.

Hey, just you just threw down the gauntlet or not the gauntlet. Yeah, you threw down the hammer. All right. Let's say do you believe in God?

Eric Fischer (43:30)

Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. Yeah, that's a relentless search, I'd say I'm trying to find out. But I do believe in something, you know, we all believe we all bend our knee to something. I make sure I've been my knee nowadays to something greater than me. Even though I can't see it or taste it or touch it, you know, and I find I find great curiosity in that for myself, really, you know, making the unconscious conscious and what is up there in those

in the universe and how, how, why are we here? And these deeper kind of, and, I would, and, and, and I don't know how you are with, when, you are overcoming your stuff, but, I find myself extremely interested in deeper conversations rather than how so-and-so is cutting her grass down the street. I just like that. I have no interest in any of those types of conversations. And that's what you talk about at the bar, you know?

Kevin Bellack (44:17)

Yeah, yeah.

Eric Fischer (44:20)

That's what you talk about at the bar after a couple of drinks. that whole finding your way, finding your path intrinsically, there was a study, I'm almost certain it was Harvard, where they did a future authoring for freshmen in psychology. What major they were in.

is almost irrelevant. were freshmen at Harvard and they did a five year out future authoring program and something like 80 % roughly, maybe we can put it in the show notes, I'll find it for you, changed their major. Changed their major once they started thinking about their future. They said, you know what, this one profession, take it accounting or whatever, business, what have you. I can't be doing this for the next 40 years of my life.

You know, like, and so they changed their major into something that they actually think that they want to do, because I think it is true that if, it work if you love it, if you love it, is it, is it, is it work in the same way that if you're just doing something for a paycheck, you know, and when you strip your life, when one, one major

is that that word control, if you can relinquish all control as much control that you're aware of and you just be in tune with what it is. So much of this is the metacognition of this is thinking about what you think about thoughts, behavior, action, identity. And so think it starts up here. And if we can raise awareness and consciousness of what am I trying to control? What am I afraid of? And is it actual fear or perceived fear?

What do I, I am, I am not, I will, I will not, I will stretch when I wake up. I will not pick the phone up for an hour before I wake up. I mean, you can play with all this stuff as you know, in your journal or in your notes, however you see it. But when you start stripping away control and perceived fears, and then you start paying attention of how you, to how you think.

Kevin Bellack (46:06)

Mm-hmm.

Eric Fischer (46:20)

You can, and then you can bounce it off somebody that's unilaterally only interested in your success. That's why it's challenging to talk to a best friend or a parent because they know you so well, but a coach, a therapist, maybe it's a best friend, you know, a mentor, maybe it's a coach you had in high school or something who, who knows you, but is interested in your success only. it really helps. It really helps. It's really, I mean, it's helped so much.

Kevin Bellack (46:28)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. And it gives that tends to give you a unique perspective too. mean, obviously, I'm saying like if it's somebody outside of your circle already, because yeah, I don't want to I don't want to talk to everybody I've always talked to. Because a they, you know, they're going to be bringing their own. How does this impact me to the conversation? ⁓

Eric Fischer (47:06)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (47:07)

But yeah, like I may have already heard from them many times before. Yeah, no, that's good.

Eric Fischer (47:11)

Mm-hmm.

And you build from the mountaintop, you know, that's perspective. Most people, most people live.

Kevin Bellack (47:18)

You build from the mountaintop. Okay.

Eric Fischer (47:23)

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (47:23)

So.

Eric Fischer (47:24)

Cause you, cause you can metaphorically see your path. can create your, your path. mean, you, we can build from the valley where our, where our view is, is limited or we can raise our, our consciousness and metaphorically become the observer of ourself and build from not the street level view. If we stay in the weeds, we're bound to get bit by snakes. And so we raise our thinking up and look at ourself.

Kevin Bellack (47:31)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (47:51)

from the top down and all of its stimuli and you start to remove. So you can see clearly and then you add things that are essential components to your life because everything in our life requires maintenance and maintenance equals friction. And so when you start removing those pieces one by one, you have more time for yourself to focus on things that you actually want to do that are essential in your wellbeing.

Kevin Bellack (47:57)

Yeah.

Okay.

Eric Fischer (48:22)

financially or socially, relationship wise, other. And then you get clear and that's a sustainable way to take steps upwards. That's Jacob's ladder up into the ineffable. And there's no pinnacle to one success. And so you reach a goal, you set another one. Human beings are never built to be stationary or static. We're always looking to create. It's either gonna be unhealthy.

side on the healthy side or on the destructive side. Not much in life is neutral.

Kevin Bellack (48:51)

So well, and I'm. feel like I'm hung up on the mountaintop starting from it, because what if I so how would I? Would you say if somebody comes to you and says this is my mountaintop, this is what I want to go to? But. It as I start going and building towards that, what if it's not the right mountaintop that I should have picked, or what if it's I was it was an ideal that I was trying to?

Eric Fischer (49:15)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Bellack (49:18)

set for myself that it was more of a was more idealistic than, you know, cause I always look at myself like, using ADHD as an example, like I know how I operate a lot of times. So I, and how things work for me and how they don't work for me. if I'm in my line to myself about the mountain top, my line to myself that I'm going to do this, and get up here by doing it this way.

I guess, I'm going back and forth in my mind answering my own questions kind of, but the, cause I'm like along the way I might figure out like, well, no, I'm to move them out on top over here, you know, as I pick it apart.

Eric Fischer (49:46)

Yeah.

Yeah, that's

it. Yeah, that's a requirement. That's that's that's that's a condition precedent naturally, because as you march towards something, you change. And so the way so the way you view it will change as well. And you might you might come to find out that was the wrong path. Yeah, sure. Of course. Yeah. But you don't know until you start thinking that way. You know, I mean, most people think you start at the bottom and work your way up, you know.

Kevin Bellack (49:56)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (50:22)

Like put the cross on your back and start marching uphill. And I like that too. You know, I like that concept as well, metaphorically, but, but I think it's interesting to to, be at the top and to look down on your life and, be honest with yourself who's in it. Why are they in it? What value do they have to me for me? What value do I have for them? Is it a balanced relationship?

Kevin Bellack (50:25)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (50:47)

And you break your part of your life apart in buckets and you take a holistic tart, but, also very honest view of all the stimuli within your life. And you get clear on what needs to go and what needs to stay and the why behind it. if you know the why, the how's easy. So they say, but you're always climbing mountain tops. You're always climbing towards, towards a mountain top. should be.

Kevin Bellack (51:02)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Cause so how do you, what do you do if somebody is like, I can't see the mountain top. can't even envision a mountain top. am so deep at the bottom right now. And, you know, cause I like the, you know, think it's Martin Luther King. you know, you don't have to see the whole staircase to take that first step. Right. so I feel like that's almost opposite of let's, let's just pick a path and start walking.

Eric Fischer (51:31)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Bellack (51:35)

and figure it out along the way. you know, along the way, figure out what mountaintop you want to be on. Yes. But how can you where should someone start?

Eric Fischer (51:42)

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (51:44)

going through that process when they're like, OK, I know I need to I just I just realized or I just came to terms with the fact that I need to make a change. Let's say with alcohol, let's say with anything, you know, it can be anything. Yeah, where do I start?

Eric Fischer (51:58)

Yeah.

When the, when the, yeah, when the you can, I, now, again, I say this with the, with the caveat that everybody's different depends on where you're starting at, but when the, when the, when the fight flight or freeze, the nervous system is, is calm and balanced when the, when, when we're in the, human being, we're always looking for homeostasis, you know? So if we're, so if we're in active, serious, severe addiction,

Kevin Bellack (52:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (52:23)

We're not talking about where are we gonna be in five years. know, like the person needs to be ready for that. Where emotionally and mentally there is some stability in terms of the nervous system being at baseline. And then we can kind of build to that, you know. So I don't want it to sound like.

Kevin Bellack (52:25)

Yeah.

No, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Eric Fischer (52:43)

That's the first thing that we like we

start talking about, you know, the last decade of your life. What does it look like? That's not what I mean. I mean, we build towards that, you know, and the person and it's it's it's a forever. It's a forever journey. You know, it's a forever because it will change, you know, like our interests will change and you know, the way we look will change what we do for our our our work will change relationships change, etc. And so I think part of this

Kevin Bellack (52:48)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (53:11)

Part of this is getting clear, going very slow. I do 100 % believe in starting as absolutely as small as possible. As small as possible. That might be, I mean, that could be anything for anybody, but it's gotta be, I think, small. There's a lot of humility in that as well.

Kevin Bellack (53:27)

Yeah. Yeah.

You appreciate this. I never played baseball in my life. But you know, it's like everybody wants to hit the home run. But a bunch gonna get me on the base. Getting hit getting hit with the ball is gonna get me on the base. ⁓ What is that look like?

Eric Fischer (53:39)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Bellack (53:45)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (53:45)

Yeah, it might be it might be saying no to the bar. It might be delaying the first drink. It might be going for a walk. It might be seeing a therapist for a couple of months or a coach for a little bit and just kind of like slowly getting a hold of the alcohol piece and or any other kind of novelty in your life that you feel needs to go. And and once once that that that little.

Well, that piece is stabilized to a certain degree, then we can start thinking about the future. But you don't want to take on more than you are emotionally and mentally, you know, and physically for that matter. Like I was, mean, I was my body required alcohol, I would be drinking at four in the morning just to feel normal.

You know, like that was, mean, in psychiatry, that was in psychosis. I was in, I was in really bad shape. There's no way, there's no way I could be thinking about like, I'm just trying to hang on to life, you know? And the other thing too is, you know, you only need a one, one little speck of hope, one little speck of white light when you're down in the dark and you're in the abyss of malevolent, malevolence and self-imposed tyranny and.

Kevin Bellack (54:32)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (54:49)

all these self-destructive behaviors, you, when, when, when the time is right for you, you just need a little piece of white light to hold on to, to keep you going. And, and, when you're at the bottom, you know, you can always do, you can always make more choices to push yourself on either end of the spectrum up or down. so when you, when you decide enough's enough, at least I'm not going to continue making the same poor decisions. I'm going to at least stay put right here and just pause.

for and get help, then I can start to maybe see some light up here that I can, that it might be heaven, it might just be the surface of what it is that I think I can imagine doing, but you just need a little piece to hang onto. And when I allowed myself to see it that way, things started to calm and then I could kind of take that deep breath and you know.

finally get some sleep and then start marching, marching towards a lot of us driven by faith too, cause you don't know there's a beautiful mystery in not knowing because you get surprised by what you may accomplish or find out about yourself or, or relationships or what your tendencies are, the why behind the net, net reason you're having drinks. Like what's the net net benefit to having the drinks.

Kevin Bellack (55:46)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (56:09)

Once you have a, have start getting answers to these core questions, you can, and you stare at them for long enough and you dissect them and the emotion is, is removed, right? Trying to understand, not trying to solve or conquer or overcome, trying to learn from it. It turns, it breaks off and turns into wisdom that you can utilize, utilize as you see it for, for hopefully the benefit of others.

Kevin Bellack (56:34)

Yeah.

Yep.

Eric Fischer (56:35)

So, I mean, yeah, these conversations are important because we're not necessarily just honing in on one thing or one methodology or one frame of reference. It's like when we zoom out, we need perception and we need perspective. And 95 % of our decision making is unconscious, which is narrow. It's reactive and it's oftentimes rooted in emotion. And then when we can zoom out,

Kevin Bellack (56:43)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Eric Fischer (57:01)

part of this whole thing is zooming way out and taking deep breaths and saying, I'm going to go very slow and I'm going to get help. And I understand that, that, that I may, you know, fall and falling is okay. And it's re it's a requirement because so long as you get back up, you can learn from it. And it always helps to have other people in your corner. Again, a coach, anybody who you deem, you know, good for you.

Kevin Bellack (57:23)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (57:30)

that's in your corner to support you and be there for you, who's going to answer the call and a shoulder to cry on. because that's all healing and it's all growth, you know, that puts us on the edge. And when we're on the edge, we grow. so, yeah, and then we can over time start marching towards a vision.

Kevin Bellack (57:48)

Yeah.

And when you were talking about that, just that little glimmer of light or whatever. And I was thinking like it takes, it'll take other people to help me with that. Like it'll take a community like reframe, like AA, like other things it will take, you know, being in that house, you know, in 2019 for you down in Florida, it's

you know, getting that therapist, it's listening to other people's stories on a podcast. Like I did that. listened to books. I listen to podcasts like some helped. Some didn't. You know, some early on, I know I left one I shouldn't have read. I was like, well, shoot, I wasn't that bad. But I'm reading. Yeah, that was I think the Heroin Diaries by Nikki Sixx from Molly Crew. I was like,

Eric Fischer (58:23)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Wow.

Kevin Bellack (58:36)

Okay, I'm not doing that. but that, but then I use that as an excuse. It's like, well, yeah, it could be worse. but no, it's like, even that helps, like even, even hearing how other people, but, but how do you see, how did he change? How did he do that? And there's always a glimmer of hope that we can get. Like we, a lot of people think, you know, no, nobody has it worse than me. Nobody's it's just impossible. And it's like, no, lean into.

Eric Fischer (58:38)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kevin Bellack (59:04)

Somebody, Download an app, go to a meeting, get a coach, get a therapist, talk to somebody. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (59:10)

Yeah, that's why I think community, like what we do here at Reframe is so valuable for that exact reason you just said. I thought, well, nobody's had it worse than me. That type of thinking.

And it keeps us quiet. keeps us feeling alone and isolated. And then when you're around community, whether it's, you know, sometimes AA, reframe, I think we do a phenomenal job here because we realize that we're not alone and we realize that there's other people who are just like us going through similar things, some worse and some not as bad. mean, that's all subjective. but but.

Again, we're so deeply rooted in connectivity as human beings that it feels each time somebody shares or puts a little something in the chat or reaches out to a coach, all of those measures, anytime they're just showing up, popping into the app, you know, doing a daily task or a little piece of something for just one minute, one minute, it's all growth. It's all growth.

Kevin Bellack (1:00:09)

open up the app.

Eric Fischer (1:00:12)

Yeah, because you're each time you do that, each time you face what it is you do not want to face, you're burning off a little piece of the old you. And that's important, you know, whether you're trying to overcome alcohol, I think, or just be the best you can be, you know, as you define it, you know, in order to strive towards something, not reach, but strive towards something, that's a difference also between consistent and persistent. Persistent is showing up when you don't want to.

That's the hard thing, you know, is show up when you don't want to. And that that's hard. That's hard because our brain wants us on the couch eating Cheetos and watching Netflix and ordering peace from Amazon. You know, the peace is engineered. It's not ordered from Amazon. It doesn't show up in a box, you know, and confidence is earned. It's not granted. And so at the again, it's showing up and putting one foot in front of the other every single day and doing something that makes you uncomfortable.

Even if it's journaling, you know, a lot of people don't don't journal and that's very hard for people because it's reflective It's intentional thinking and one can liken one can like in writing or thinking maybe for that matter as prayer And so it's active It's it's intentional. It's methodical. It's slow. It's reflective we gain perspective and then if we can bounce ideas that of what it is we're thinking off somebody else and we

really truly can gain like a concept of where we are, where we want to go and what it is that we don't want to do. I had a psychologist tell me shortly after rehab and I've subsequently heard Joe Distenza talk about this. He's like, look, get a sheet of paper and write out just list 20, 25 things that you know you're doing that you should stop doing. They could be the dishes in the sink.

to the laundry. mean, they can be small little things, clean the car up, et cetera, or the big things. ⁓ I like doing, do you do dishes in the sink?

Kevin Bellack (1:01:58)

So should stop doing the dishes in the sink.

like actually doing them. ⁓ I own, I only do that with my any of my coffee stuff that's hand wash and wash.

Eric Fischer (1:02:08)

I do it, yeah, I do it in the sink. Yeah, it's like five minutes a piece.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah. I like, I do all the dishes in the sink, ⁓ because it's like, but it's like, it's just like looking out the window in the backyard and seeing birds and like, it's like a little, you know, I, you can find these little moments of peace through going slow, driving in the right-hand lane. You can go to the fast checkout lane. You're like, no, you're like Eric, no way. No way.

Kevin Bellack (1:02:22)

That's way too much work.

I still am not. I will go in the slow.

Once I commit, I commit like once I commit to a line in the checkout lane, like I'll stay there regardless of unless it's just totally like ridiculous and someone's like, we'll take you over here. I'm like, OK. And yeah, the right handling. I'm still not going to do that. ⁓ Yeah, but but I I I kind of.

Eric Fischer (1:02:53)

Yeah.

That's a hard one. That's a hard one for people, yeah.

Kevin Bellack (1:03:04)

We'll just go, I'll go with the flow. How's that? Um, I don't, I don't act because I would always like, it'd be funny. Like I was driving, I drive downtown to work and I would always take like something would slow down and I would go on a side street and I would go there. I would get off the highway and all this. And it was always funny because I was like behind somebody who was annoying me or whatever. And then all of a sudden I'd make all this thing and I'm like, okay, I did some things and I merged back on the highway farther up and I'm still behind them. I'm like,

Eric Fischer (1:03:08)

Mmm, that's good. I like that. Yeah

yeah, me too. yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Isn't that true though? That's so true.

Kevin Bellack (1:03:34)

Yeah, that happened a couple times. And I was like,

All right, that's it. You're stressing yourself out for zero reason. Just listen to your book and go with the flow. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Fischer (1:03:40)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Enjoy

the ride, you know, enjoy the ride because we'll all get there when we're ready. And the time is right. We'll get there and we don't need to keep the gas pedal down all the time. You know, and it's it's it's like, have you found since you've you're on the other side that taking measures like that, there's there's like a weight, not to say the weights.

You know, the weight of life as such weighs us down, like there's a freedom, a lightness to you.

Kevin Bellack (1:04:15)

Yeah,

giving so giving up alcohol in my case and ⁓ yeah, definitely. mean, yeah, I'm thinking of all kinds of different points in time over the years where that I remember specific like aha moments or whatever. But yeah, it's definitely lighten the load and.

Eric Fischer (1:04:20)

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (1:04:35)

Lighten the load, fill the tank. I mean, there's all kinds of things because I used to think like, oh, I'm operating at 75 % or whatever. And then I stopped drinking for, know, initially it was a short period of time. I took a break and I worked on moderation for a while and then took another break. And, um, but that for, during that first break I took, I was like, oh shit, I'm, I was operating at most 50%. Uh, when I started my day,

Eric Fischer (1:05:04)

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (1:05:05)

And yeah, mean, so it definitely noticing those types of things where it's, you know, how things change when you make a change. And I think it's important to take a look at that and call those out. Like, look for the progress. Don't just because we tend to focus negatively, right? So we'll focus on that one negative thing that happens and miss the 20 small things that were wins that.

Eric Fischer (1:05:20)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (1:05:29)

would have kept us going if we paid attention to them. And that's where reflecting that you mentioned, journaling, bringing her back to journaling, writing that stuff down and reflecting on it, what went well today, those types of things, that's where those are helpful.

Eric Fischer (1:05:33)

Yeah, huh?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Well said. Yeah. And, and, and just briefly to bring it back to that list of, of just, you know, write down your top 20 things that you know, you need to stop do. It's like, you need to stop doing these things, you know, and one, one question that another psychologist gave me too is, what am I doing wrong that I know I'm doing wrong that I would fix that I could fix.

And those types of questions stay with you. And then you just, as you go through your normal course of the day, they'll kind of ping you. You're in a conversation or listening to a podcast or what have you. And it's like, yeah, I'm doing that wrong. And then you start knocking them off, know, one by one, just start, stop doing one by one, start with the easiest, low friction, easy to do. ⁓

Kevin Bellack (1:06:30)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I like how you said 20. I like to put doing some of the behavior change stuff. You know, I like to throw out random numbers of things, but 20 like list out 20 things that you're doing wrong that you should stop doing. And because, you know, some people are going to write out three things right away. Then they're going to they're to five are going to be easy, maybe 10. But as you start pushing it, then you're looking for small things.

Eric Fischer (1:06:51)

yeah.

Kevin Bellack (1:06:56)

force yourself to do it like you don't have to do it on one sitting. Come back to it. Keep the list handy on your phone, on a journal, whatever. Because yeah, I mean, it's not that it's a failing or anything. Some of these things are failings or anything like that. It's just, you what would you change and what could you change? No matter how small, you know, it's yeah.

Eric Fischer (1:07:13)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Bellack (1:07:18)

that forces you to setting yourself a bigger number than you would normally like that forces you to think a little bit more, sit with it a little longer, all that. And that's very helpful.

Eric Fischer (1:07:27)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we all want the instant gratification is real in today's world, especially now AI and all this. But the beauty of life is earning and delaying and starting a small, like you said, small as possible because it stacks.

Kevin Bellack (1:07:30)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (1:07:47)

it stacks and you don't realize again, that's bringing the unconscious conscious because when you really think like, when I'm nervous, I, my foot rattles up and down all the time. And it's like, okay. That's one little nervous system piece. It may not be that huge. That could easily slide way under the radar, but you catch something like that. And now it trickles into well in order for my foot, when I'm a little nervous in order for my foot to stop bouncing, I have to pay attention to my breathing.

And I have to unclench and now I have to, now I've realized my hands are clenched off. So I have to unclench my hands too. And like, you know, it all kind of like, it all feeds the, the, the learning and the mindset shifting and the overcoming and the improving your life. all feeds it. You know, none, none of that stuff is mutually exclusive. it does, it really, it really trickles, trickles into so many different pieces of our life.

Kevin Bellack (1:08:29)

Yeah.

Eric Fischer (1:08:39)

But yeah, I do believe less is more. I do believe in going slow. I do believe in looking at what you do not want to look at. I do believe in what you allow into your brain. You will start acting out in the world. So pay close attention to what it is that you put your eyes on and allow inside of your ears, because what you look at, you focus on and what you focus on your feet move towards.

And so let's make sure it's focusing on the right things that serve yourself and serve others. And the only way is through, as you know. ⁓ Yeah. But yeah. I've got dance. I've got dance with our 10-year-old. Yeah, that's fun to watch her.

Kevin Bellack (1:09:11)

Yeah, yeah. Just keep going. However, all right. Well, I know you got to get out of here. Any... Yeah.

Nice. I Yes,

it was very fun to watch dance, but it was also a good day to when my daughter was like, No, you know what, I don't want to do that anymore. was like, my God. Nothing against it. Nothing against it. But yeah, it was like, she was doing too much. And it was like, something has to go. Let it be that and not this or whatever. But no.

Eric Fischer (1:09:44)

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah.

Well, I'm with you on that joking thing, the dance, and I'm sure there's some people watching who can relate. It's like, I like my baseball background. think, okay, what's dance teaching her? Cause it's expensive. is like, you know, leg strength, balance, discipline, teamwork, accountability. I'd go there with it. I just, but it's fun just to watch them, you know, but your girl's older. You're, you're about to be an empty nester here.

Kevin Bellack (1:10:05)

Yeah, ⁓ definitely. Yeah, yeah,

definitely. So it's yeah, lots of fun, interesting things that yeah, I'm like, how did we get here? But yeah, anything I will go through real quick. Any any any nuggets from this week that you learn that you want to share or we could just move on to the and I'm not sure if you had anything come up for you. Could be completely off topic, not sobriety related.

Eric Fischer (1:10:16)

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (1:10:32)

A little nugget for the listeners.

Eric Fischer (1:10:33)

Yeah, I, I'm going to off the cuff. I'll try to tie this in. so we were in Kansas city. Our 13 year old, had a volleyball tournament there and I'm hanging with other dads and, I, and they were drinking, we're sitting at the bar and I'm having a diet coke and, know, just hanging out and, and I could tell they, they, they know I'm in recovery, but I could tell that they were.

policing themselves around me a little bit. And I find that I find that part of this sobriety game we play because and I don't mean it as a game, it's life. But I mean like the you know, the bucket that we that we live in because because I'm more aware and more in tune with my surroundings a little bit. And I and I always try to make it a point not to make other people feel uncomfortable. I don't really bring up my history at all. But

Kevin Bellack (1:10:58)

Hmm.

Yeah, I know what mean. ⁓

Eric Fischer (1:11:24)

It's just interesting that people, one of the dads was kind of going kind of hard and the other one was in control. And it's just interesting, you've got me, the sober guy, the guy in control, and then one guy who's kind of like loose and fast. It's just interesting. We're all around the same age and it's interesting to see the different dynamics because the guy who was going hard and fast halfway through the drive last night pulled over and got a hotel.

And I thought to myself, like, you know, those, those little moments, and I would not call him an alcoholic at all. I mean, I don't know this gentleman that well, but nonetheless, I wouldn't put him in, in that world either. But, I guess it's just, you know, when you're in tune with your surroundings, I would encourage the, the, folks watching and listening to slow down and be in tune and become the observer, become the observer of, know, not only your own thoughts, but

those around you and when you start noticing patterns, you can kind of steal patterns of behavior and mindsets of certain things you do like and then you can avoid what you don't like that you see in yourself and you can start to discard. I'm a big fan of removing before you add and so the more aware you are of your surroundings, I think the better in tune you become with.

Which what am I doing over there that that's, do I do that right there? You know, or what have you, think it's important. So I'm kind of, I don't know if I answered that question, but. Be in tune.

Kevin Bellack (1:12:46)

No, that's good. There's no question to be answered. It's your nugget. mine, mine is just

based on you, your, com our conversation here. And that is I have too many coffee mugs. So, I kind of knew I already knew that, but that's my nugget for, for the, for this. ⁓ I threw a lot of those away. but I might, I might have 60 or so coffee mugs that.

Eric Fischer (1:13:02)

or water bottles. How many water bottles do you have? have a ton of water bottles. Did you? Okay.

Kevin Bellack (1:13:11)

I'm the only one that drinks coffee in the house. it's, it's a collection at this point, but which I'm trying to thin the herd, ⁓ through eBay. So, but now thanks for, thanks for sharing today. Thanks for sharing your story. and a little bit here with us, anything, any parting words before I do the, do our little closing here and we get out of here.

Eric Fischer (1:13:14)

Okay. Okay. It's a collection. It's an investment.

No, no, no, it's been, it's been fun with you today. And, and, you know, it's, it's only failure failure if you quit.

Kevin Bellack (1:13:43)

Yep. Failure is feedback, right? I that's inter excellence. Yeah. So thanks Eric. And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the Reframe Mobile Podcast brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol.

Eric Fischer (1:13:45)

Don't quit.

Yeah.

Kevin Bellack (1:14:04)

It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. I want to thank you again for listening, and be sure to come back again for another episode. Have a great day.