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Reframeable Podcast
A podcast that brings you people’s stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more. Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.
Reframeable Podcast
Being Present Without Alcohol: Rediscovering Your Senses
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Join Coach Kevin, Coach Frank, and Reframer Arely — a freelance photographer, aspiring novelist, and perfume enthusiast from Los Angeles who found her way to a more present, creative life after realizing she wasn't a moderator.
This episode explores how the simple habit of journaling can become a turning point in changing your relationship with alcohol. The conversation digs into why writing without worrying about grammar, penmanship, or being "graded" opens the door to self-understanding, and how putting thoughts on the page helps you track your own growth over time. You'll hear how creativity and passion that felt blocked can resurface once alcohol steps aside, and why the fear that you need to be altered to make art is a myth.
The hosts also unpack practical, repeatable tools for drinking less or going alcohol-free: playing the tape forward through a craving, building new rituals to replace the old ones, reframing social events and weddings as things you get to experience rather than endure, and using grounding techniques to stay present. There's honest talk about the shame cycle — how the harshest voice is often the one telling you that you're a bad person — and how learning to speak to yourself like you would a friend changes everything. Whether you're cutting back or fully alcohol-free, this conversation is a reminder that clarity, presence, and creativity were there all along.
The Reframeable podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the #1 app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. If you have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast@reframeapp.com or, if you're on the Reframe app, give it a shake and let us know what you want to hear.
Kevin (00:00)
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframable Podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more. Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our
podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellach. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe App.
Frank (00:35)
And hi everybody, I'm Frank Spinelli. I'm also a recovery coach here at Reframe.
Kevin (00:39)
we're joined by fellow reframer Aureli Davis. Aureli is a freelance photographer, aspiring novelist, perfume enthusiast, and co-host of the upcoming podcast, The Perfume Confidance. She's been alcohol-free for over four and a half years and credits the reframe community with helping her build a life filled with creativity, connection, and purpose.
She shares her Los Angeles home with her husband, their eighteen year old son, and a flame point Siamese cat. When she's not behind the camera or working on her first novel, you'll find her reading, hiking, exploring the world of fragrance, and embracing the simple joys of sober living. Welcome. How's it going?
Frank (01:15)
Yeah, welcome.
Arely Davis (01:16)
Hi. Thank you for having me.
Kevin (01:18)
Yeah, thanks for joining us and bearing with my ⁓ my intro my issues with reading all the intro stuff today. ⁓ that yeah. Yeah.
Frank (01:22)
You
Arely Davis (01:22)
Ha ha ha ha.
Frank (01:24)
Thank
Arely Davis (01:26)
We all had technical difficulties. Yeah. Yeah.
Frank (01:29)
Yeah, there was a lot of technical difficulties
that no one will know what we're talking about, but it wasn't easy.
Kevin (01:33)
Yeah, exactly. This is
this is already 30 minutes in the making. tech's great. you know, it it it's sometimes too good. ⁓ yeah. I stopped using my the like I used to have AirPods and I would use those for community meetings and I found that when I started using those, they were connecting. It was so smart, it was like I gotta my
Frank (01:39)
You
It's not.
Kevin (01:56)
opened up something on my phone and all of a sudden it switched to my phone and I couldn't hear the meeting and all that. So I just I just started going without on those. But ⁓ anyway, we're not here to talk tech. how's everyone doing today?
Frank (01:59)
I know.
Arely Davis (02:00)
Mm.
Ha ha ha.
Doing great. Yeah. Feeling good.
Kevin (02:13)
Yeah, well,
we can just jump right in if you'd like to kick us off and maybe share a little bit of your story wherever you want to begin and ⁓ we'll we'll go from there.
Arely Davis (02:23)
Okay, sounds good. Well, as of today, I as of this recording, I am four years, ⁓ six months and twenty two days alcohol free. And I definitely crave ⁓ I'm sorry, I definitely credit reframe for this because ⁓ I had toyed with the idea of being ⁓ sober curious for a while.
Kevin (02:33)
Awesome.
Arely Davis (02:44)
And I'll tell you how that happened. ⁓ one day I was cleaning and I opened a cabinet, and I had left myself a post-it saying, I don't need to drink to have fun. And then I opened a drawer and I had like a little drawing of like a wine glass with like a circle and an X. And not today. And so I was leaving myself these little like hints that I must have done.
⁓ you know that I that I intentionally left for myself and forgot about. And then as you know I was going about my day they would come up. So I tried unsuccessfully, but it wasn't until reframe that I was finally able to have some tools that I could use and and and work with.
Kevin (03:24)
Yeah.
Frank (03:24)
Wow.
I was going to say, you know, that's really, it's cute, but it's also, I'm curious to know, do you remember what led you to even think, let me leave myself some notes?
Arely Davis (03:36)
you know, I think I may have just been I don't want to say blacked out because I never drank that way. I mean, it's like I never hit like a rock bottom moment. There was never like a DUI or some kind of big fight or an accident or anything like that. But I do remember having incredibly gnarly hangovers, like horrific. Like I would be like three days with like a headache, you know. But as soon as that feeling left.
I would go right back to it. I was like, well, okay, I guess, you know, I got over it. So, you know, I can can go drink again. But I think that I was getting tired of my own nonsense. And so that's why. So I started saying, like, yeah, I cannot have another morning like this. I cannot have another couple of days of just feeling horrible and like basically sick, you know, because now that I know that it I was poisoning myself, I was just part of me was saying, like, no, no, no, it's not worth it. So
Yeah, there was it it must have been like subconscious or something because as soon as I was snapped out of the hangover or snapped out of feeling bad, I would go right back to partying. Yeah.
Frank (04:41)
The reason why I ask is because I had a client who told a very similar story that they knew their drinking behavior and what they would do is leave themselves post-its to find when they were intoxicated. So it would be like walk the dog, feed the dog so that they would know that they had done it because they had left this sort of map.
Kevin (04:41)
Yeah.
No.
Arely Davis (05:01)
Okay.
Yeah, so
Frank (05:06)
And when I heard this, thought, wow, you know, that is so, you know, you really thought through this because you didn't trust your own self, but your story is actually the opposite. You were warning yourself saying, you don't need to do this. We're sort of rooting for you. And that's really, that's really interesting and fascinating. And so how long before you went on Reframe did you say, you know what, sober curious is interesting as a concept, but I'm just probably not going to drink.
Arely Davis (05:15)
It's the opposite. Yeah. Yes.
Well, so I think it had been like years, honestly, because I saw one that was like 2017, a note that I left myself. I don't need to drink to have fun. Because my whole thing is is I used to use it to have fun, like to socialize, to be with friends, to let loose and you know, ⁓ and not be as what I perceived as shy, you know. And so I used to drink to do that. But ⁓
When I started reframe, what I liked about it was that it said to me, you can cut back. You don't have to quit completely. And so then that was like a little bit less of just you know cut and dry. Like it was like, okay, I can cut back a little. I don't have to give it up yet. And so I was on the app for three months before I said, okay, enough is enough. I realized that I was not a moderator.
Yeah, I mean I got to the point, you know, there's like that ⁓ thing where you can track your drinks. And when I was being mindful of it, I was like, wow, I'm tracking two to three drinks a day. And this was ⁓ it was a year after the pandemic, but I had, you know, I had built up my drinking tolerance during the pandemic. And so yeah, so
Frank (06:20)
Yeah, you are.
Kevin (06:21)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Frank (06:41)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (06:42)
when I was starting to track them, I said, Hey, you know, even if it's one drink a day,
like one drink a day,
drinks a month. Yeah, 365 drinks a year. That's a lot of drinks. And I wasn't drinking just one. I was having two or sometimes or three or you know, three. Yeah, four. And on weekends it was more. So yeah, yeah.
Frank (06:49)
Yeah. Yeah.
Three plus.
Kevin (07:01)
Yeah.
Yeah. Cause I know there's
I ca I'd have to go back and look right now and d either of you if you know this, but like I think in the US I was I remember seeing a few years ago, like whenever there I think it was the NIH where they were like excessive drinking starts at like seven drinks for women and fourteen for men. Like and and when I say starts, it's like that's the threshold for excessive drinking, which a week. And and and so I you know, I don't like
Arely Davis (07:27)
A week, yeah.
Kevin (07:31)
all of those numbers because you know it is whatever like what it well what's the point of them and and what what's what are we using them for is important and all that. but I remember being shocked like the four for men like 14 drinks is and more is ex ⁓ excessive and I'm like that's like a a good night or two. Like it and seven like you know when you're like with your one a a night even that
Frank (07:43)
means a lot.
Arely Davis (07:50)
Exactly.
Kevin (07:56)
You know, I I think when people think like excessive drinking and all that, we're thinking we're thinking, you know, alcoholics, you know, whatever the words we use, people who are hitting rock bottom, all that, and it's like, no, it's like less than three bottles of wine ⁓ a week. ⁓
Arely Davis (08:11)
Yeah.
Frank (08:13)
Right. Well,
you know, but there is a rationale behind it. You know, so on one hand, it doesn't make sense because it depends on your body and how tall you are and how old you are and how, you know, you metabolize alcohol. Some people just genetically don't. So they set these, I won't say arbitrary, but there's sort of arbitrary limits where they say seven for women and 14 for men.
Arely Davis (08:18)
Yeah.
Kevin (08:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
Frank (08:38)
because we're going to take the average size man and the average size woman, and we're going to make a random in between, let's say 40 years old. The interesting thing is that now that's all gone by the wayside because the World Health Organization said zero, it shouldn't be zero. But I think what it's getting back to, and I was curious where you were in your journey, is that for me, when I talk to clients, it's not so much how much, it's how did they feel.
Like were they upset that they were drinking once every day? Were they thinking I'm drinking in secret or were they upset with the fact that they were binge drinking? So what was it about your journey that you said to yourself, you know what, this is it. I'm not a moderator. I can't mindfully moderate. I need to just go alcohol free.
Arely Davis (09:24)
Yeah. Well, you know, at first ⁓ I I I didn't think it was a problem ever because the I didn't think it was a problem ever because when I drank, I was drinking while I was cooking. So how can I have a problem? I'm like cooking and I'm romanticizing, you know, being barefoot and just chopping things in the kitchen and having some wine. I didn't think that was a problem, you know? ⁓
But then and I would be listening to podcasts. And so I was like ⁓ enhancing my experience, or at least I thought that's what was happening. ⁓ but it really was like, wait a minute, so ⁓ I can't cook unless I'm drinking. That's silly, you know? Well I started using it when I realized I was using it as a crutch, or not even a crutch, but just as I don't know, an excuse, yeah.
Frank (10:05)
An excuse. You know, you just
found reasons to drink, which is what a lot of people do. A lot of people say, well, I only drink when I go out to dinner. So I make sure I go out to dinner like five nights a week. Those are hard.
Kevin (10:15)
Yeah, yeah.
Arely Davis (10:17)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean and and it did start
off being social. ⁓ it was definitely
Frank (10:22)
Was it hard to break those habits
though of not cooking and drinking?
Arely Davis (10:26)
⁓ no, ⁓ because the year that I quit, there were all of these alcohol free options that still kind of like gave you that ritual. Like in fact, I think there is some alcohol free spirit called ritual that you can just add to your juice or your you know sparkling water.
Kevin (10:42)
But yeah.
Arely Davis (10:47)
And it kind of gives you that feeling of like, you know, I'm making myself a little mocktail. And so I'm still participating in this like awesome thing. So I started doing that. And then I started creating my own like little concoctions of like lime juice and ⁓ you know, sometimes even apple cider vinegar or whatever, you know, ⁓ adding spices and things. And now it's to the point where, you know what, my favorite drink of all time is water.
It's like I don't need all of it. I can just kinda go shh shh.
Frank (11:16)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (11:17)
To my r drinking glass.
Frank (11:18)
I thought you were gonna tell me it was all your years of training as a perfumery that got you to experiment with cocktails that were non-alcoholic.
Arely Davis (11:23)
⁓ yeah.
Yeah, well no, I the the perfumery stuff is I I just really love the the scents, you know. And so yeah, I guess that's why I like tea now because you can kind of enjoy and s and smell the tea as you're drinking it and you know it still kind of provides you with ⁓ with this like ritualistic thing, self-care that you're actually doing self-care, not you know, ⁓ poisoning, but like actual self-care. Yeah.
Frank (11:50)
Yeah.
Kevin (11:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, and there's something to be said for those rituals too. you know, finding those, whether it's making a mocktail or tea or I just got a espresso machine, so I'm doing that, and that's all kinds of playing around and and with that and so with the was that a big driver? Was that on that one posted note like I don't need to drink to have fun? Was that was that like a a a
one of the main blockers for where you were like, okay, what am I going to do if I don't have this this thing? Yeah.
Arely Davis (12:25)
Absolutely. Yes. I mean, my mentality
back then was whenever I encountered somebody who didn't drink, I would say, like, well then what do you do? What do you do for fun? And it's just so crazy to me now because back then I really believed that I needed to have alcohol in my life in order to start the party, to have fun, to just, you know, socialize, to not be shy, to let my guard down, all these things. But
Now I understand that I was doing the same thing over and over again. And now that I don't depend on ⁓ alcohol to have fun, I do all sorts of fun things. So I mean, I can answer that question like a lot more in depth now. What do I do? Well, I mean, what don't I do? ⁓ when I was drinking, what did I do? I used to drink. That's what I did. Yeah.
Kevin (13:15)
Yeah,
and how was that to that change that mindset? Because I mean that can be a a huge hurdle to get over if if that's how we and a lot of people do. I've been on one lately in meetings and stuff about this. Like the words that we use for it and the words that we use for people who are alcohol free are cutting back and whether it's you know, w it's a boring or you know, that type of thing, right? It it's that and it's anything but and on both sides. Like
Sure, fun we can have fun and be drinking, but is it because we're drinking or, you know, yes, we can argue that piece of it and and sometimes it's gonna show up in that way. But when you take the whole picture into account, did I have fun the next day? Did you have fun that night?
Frank (13:58)
people who drink to be more social or to get over that, you know, I'm an introvert and that's the only way I can relax. I think if you actually saw a video of you at that party, you wouldn't like what you saw.
Kevin (14:04)
The anxiety and yeah.
Arely Davis (14:13)
yeah.
Frank (14:13)
I find
a lot of people, especially, I was just talking to a client because, know, the summer's here and we're all going to barbecues or events and there's going to be the 4th of July here in the U S at all these events. And you think, how do I participate without a beer in my hand or a cocktail? And I was the life of the party. And for the most part, including for myself.
you still are the life of the party. You are pretty fun, even without alcohol. In fact, I would even push you to say you probably were a little more messier when you drank. And you're actually showing up and you're being engaging and present. And like you said, Kevin, you're remembering the conversations, you're remembering the times that the, you know, the laughter that you had and you were spending really quality time with your friends. And I think
Arely Davis (14:48)
yeah. Yeah.
Frank (15:04)
specifically that came up recently because somebody was talking about wedding season and how do I go to weddings? And I think just, it's like, how do you go to any party? When you have a plan, when you get there, if you know you're gonna not drink, don't hang out by the bar and put something in your hand like you said, a nice glass of seltzer. And if you are going to be mindful, don't go for the alcohol first. Try something non-alcoholic.
Arely Davis (15:11)
Yeah.
Frank (15:30)
Do the zebra striping where you alternate non-alcoholic with alcoholic and see how you feel. But I think there is a part of you that you described for all of us is that, I going to be me at these parties if I'm not drinking? And the answer is probably you're going to be even a better version of yourself. I don't know. Do you felt that same way after you gave it up?
Arely Davis (15:48)
Yes. yeah.
Yeah, 100%. I ⁓ I realized it actually it was very early on. It was ⁓ the month that I quit that I stopped drinking. I was invited to a holiday party and I was having a conversation with a group of people and I started to realize we have had this conversation before, but you know, everyone was drinking and the conversation was revolving around drinking.
And it was about like some kind of event that they that they went to and I was like, wait, we've already had this conversation. And then I realized like, okay, so maybe I was doing that too. Maybe I was repeating myself constantly. And so now when I go out with friends, I definitely have s much better time because I'm actually present and I ask better questions and I
really want to get to know like what's going on with you. Like what are you excited about? Like, you know, let's let's talk about philosophy. I mean, anything. I mean, my conversations have just gotten so much more richer than they ever did.
Kevin (16:52)
Yeah.
Frank (16:53)
Did you find that it was a difficult transition for you to go back with your friends and say, hey, you know, how did you navigate? Hey, I'm not drinking. It's still me. just, you know, I gave it up.
Arely Davis (17:05)
Well,
my circle has gotten smaller and it's also gotten ⁓ newer because there are new people in the group that I didn't know beforehand. And so the new people when I meet them and they ask me like, what's you know, what's your drink go to drink? And I was like, you know, I can say like an Arnold Palmer or, you know.
You know, seltzer water, like I really don't drink. And it's no big deal now. It used to be such a big deal before, like, my gosh, I'm gonna be a the weird one because I don't drink. So now it's just so natural and it's like, it's not a big deal. And even if ⁓ some of my new friends, even if they do drink, it's not ⁓ it's not the way that I was used to in the past of just binging, basically, you know.
Frank (17:33)
Yeah
Kevin (17:34)
Yeah.
Yeah. And
Arely Davis (17:48)
Yeah, so maybe maybe
some of it has to do because I'm not drinking. So maybe I don't know if maybe people decide like, well, I'm just gonna have this one. I don't know.
Kevin (17:57)
Yeah. Yeah. I noticed ⁓ a lot of people drinking less around me and I was like, No, go ahead, have some and and then I realized like maybe it was me that was pushing more ⁓ as well. But but yeah, it with that too, with you know, Frank, you're saying like you're probably more fun and and you know, meeting people and having better conversations like you just mentioned, you know, I I also just like to tell people because I was one where I'm like, ⁓ you know, nervous about this and
Arely Davis (18:01)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Yeah.
Kevin (18:23)
I had to prove it to myself. Like I had to go to some of these things and show and and it wasn't always like, yeah, I am more fun, right? In the beginning, and it was uncomfortable and it was, it's almost like a muscle, right? It's like, I've been doing this for so long in a certain way. Make sure that you know, I always just tell this to clients, tell this to people, like, make sure that you give yourself a chance, right? Don't go to one party and be like, I can't do this. And, you know,
Frank (18:44)
Yeah!
Arely Davis (18:46)
Yeah.
Kevin (18:47)
Maybe that wasn't the right one to test it out with. ⁓ maybe try something smaller. ⁓ but you know, give yourself time too, because yeah, I mean, you are changing things that we've done for how long? You know, ⁓ years.
Frank (18:49)
Yeah.
Right.
And you're changing the dynamic of how people see you. I certainly think like in the beginning, you know, there is that awkwardness because people expect something from you. Like you are this guy or in this case, girl who drank and she was my drinking buddy. And you said your circle got smaller and then it changed a little bit. Yeah. Sometimes some people are looking for that drinking buddy because they need that outlet for you to give them the
Arely Davis (19:00)
Yeah.
Frank (19:25)
you know, the free pass to say, let's tie one on tonight. And I think when we don't do that, it is interesting, but you know, it also is funny. You were talking about like, I'm still fun and I can go to these parties. I also find that I tend to know how to wrap it up. Like I'm done at a certain time and I'm not being a party pooper. I just feel like, especially with work functions, I like to leave when it's good.
Arely Davis (19:41)
Mm.
Yeah.
Frank (19:50)
Cause
I feel like when it gets messy at work, especially I'm like, okay, this is the part where I need to go. Not judging, but I'm going.
Arely Davis (19:57)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, that is that is really interesting. I I really appreciate that too. And actually that's one of the things that started making me feel good about making this decision is being able to come home, wash my makeup off, and you know, get in bed at a reasonable hour. Yeah, and like, oh my gosh, like having a good night's rest. And it was all because I I don't, I mean, who needs who really needs to stay out until 3 a.m.?
Kevin (19:59)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (20:25)
⁓ and and then get a little bit of sleep and have to you know be ready for work the next day or whatnot it's just a lot of taxing you know on your body like it's it's not necessary and ⁓ i think you know when when i first learned to drink it was part of the culture it was part of like what i took pride in i was up until you know 4 a.m and
I got two hours of sleep and I'm right to work, you know, chipper. It was kind of like a thing of pride, but it was also hurting me and I and I didn't realize it, you know. I was also much, much younger, but yeah.
Frank (21:00)
Things you can get away with when you're much younger, you cannot get away with at or after a certain age. That's definitely true. okay, I'm sorry. I'm so fascinated, one, that you're, you know, you're writing a novel, but you're also someone who creates perfumes. I find that fascinating. I have to ask, when you were drinking to the point where you were not drinking,
Did you notice your olfactory system had changed? Because I was thinking, did the alcohol, we know alcohol has an impact on vision, has an impact on our skin, it has an impact on all the senses. Did you notice a change once you stopped drinking that you could, I don't wanna fill in the blanks, but your senses had picked up?
Arely Davis (21:46)
Yeah.
Yes. Well, first of all, ⁓ I actually I I don't create perfume. I have created perfume. in fact, I I created two that I did as a class, but I'm just like a very, very much perfume aficionado. So yes, ⁓ I do notice Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. It's like a sommelier kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Yes, ⁓ that is so true.
Frank (22:03)
like you're a summer year. I mean, you don't have to make one you appreciate it. ⁓
Kevin (22:06)
Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one.
Arely Davis (22:13)
Because you do lose your sense of smell when you're drinking so much. As a matter of fact, you lose it and then you maybe eat something that could have been spoiled, and then you're like, wait, why am I sick? Because you didn't know because you can't smell as well. But no, now I actually like to say that I only intoxicate myself with fragrance. ⁓ Yeah. And that's that's my my thing. I mean, I'm just so into like ⁓
Frank (22:33)
Ha
Arely Davis (22:40)
being present and ⁓ when i am smelling something wonderful i can just slow down and enjoy like what what is this scent like reminding me of and it's usually something nostalgic or it's something like fantasy like imaginary like ⁓ wow this particular fragrance is making me feel like I'm in ⁓ a disco on Mars and you know David Bowie is playing and like yeah like somehow all that translates into scent
⁓ so it's it's a lot more fun to be able to enjoy your senses. It's like I've become a sensualist or something because now it's like I I enjoy ⁓ when I am cooking because I am touching the vegetables and like you know, ⁓ or digging my hands into dough or whatnot. And it's like so the wine was keeping me from doing that, you know. ⁓ I was actually kind of like escaping with it, and now I am so present that I
Really love those things. I love like the the textures of things and I love the smell of things and it's just it's just kind of nice. It's like a gift.
Frank (23:44)
Yeah. I cannot imagine how you would have your senses dulled and then you realize that you are hypersensitive. And I love the idea that you talked about the sense memory and all of that. And I don't know what it's like being in a disco in Mars, but I certainly can imagine it when you said that. That's really cool. let me, was all this perfume stuff in your life before, or did it escalate after you stopped drinking? I'm just curious about the time frame.
Kevin (23:45)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (23:59)
Mm-hmm.
It
absolutely escalated after drinking. I've always been like a perfume collector. In fact, my oldest perfume, ⁓ I my my that I purchased is from ⁓ 2000. So no, I'm sorry, from 1996. Wow, I'm really dating myself. ⁓ but ⁓ I it started to be escalate and become like a real passion ⁓ because when I stopped ⁓ drinking, I picked up
Frank (24:28)
Hahaha
Arely Davis (24:39)
other things like it cleared the way for other things and one thing I actually share with Kevin is journaling. Yeah. Kevin spoke a lot about journaling when I I remember from when I first joined Reframe, he was like, yeah, I, you know, I journal. And it's like how that's how you kind of get to know yourself in a sense, you know, because you can have all these thoughts in your brain. But like when you start writing them down, you start understanding yourself better because you can you can read it back.
Kevin (24:45)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (25:05)
And then you can see ⁓ the the transition of where you were when you start when you stopped drinking and where you were in the middle and where you are now and where you plan to go. And so in the writing, I kind of wrote myself into becoming more of a perfume collector. I wrote myself into writing intentionally, hence like the novel I'm working on. And it it was just again, it's another like gift.
That was there all along, but it was blocked by alcohol.
Kevin (25:35)
Yeah. I was gonna ask too same thing that you just mentioned, Frank, but with the novel, like was that something that had been there before that you wanted to do before or did that come out after? And ⁓ yeah.
Frank (25:40)
Yeah.
Was it a spring from the journaling?
Arely Davis (25:47)
It
totally sprung from the journaling and so that was after. Yeah, it was definitely after. I've always been like a big fan of ⁓ of just like a reader, but I didn't read as much until I stopped drinking. Then I got back into it. Yeah.
Kevin (25:50)
Okay.
Frank (26:01)
Wow.
So when you write your novel and you get it published, does Kevin get an acknowledgement for inspiring you to journal more? think so. Wait a minute. I have to ask, can you tell us anything about it? Does it have to do with perfumes?
Arely Davis (26:08)
yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Kevin (26:10)
I need at least an advanced copy or something. Come on.
Arely Davis (26:21)
A little bit.
⁓ yeah, I can tell you a little bit about it. It's it's actually it's quite fun. Yes. ⁓ well, first of all, it's kind of a horror ⁓ novel. And it's about a woman who returns back to the home where she grew up in, and it's now become a a bit of a hoarder's house. So she struggles with wanting to clear the space and also hiding in the hoard that is keeping her safe from the outside world.
Frank (26:24)
Okay, good.
Hello?
Arely Davis (26:48)
So it's a little bit of a tug of war, but we will see ⁓ an arc, how she changes from when she first arrives back home and who she ultimately becomes. And ⁓ the horror aspect has to do with with ⁓ just the the house itself a little bit and and then facing some of her ⁓ fears and ⁓ challenges. ⁓ yeah.
Frank (27:05)
Yeah.
character is you or is there any part of it?
Arely Davis (27:13)
⁓ yeah, I mean it's I think inevitable to ⁓ because I'm pulling from my personal life experience. So I think it's inevitable that I will be I don't know i if the protagonist, but there are other characters in there. So I think there's gonna be a little bit of me here and there, but it is fiction. So yeah.
Frank (27:31)
Yeah, you can take
some license when it's not really your story. That's great. That's great. Well, congratulations and wish you the best of luck. also write and I also am obsessed with horror. I don't know about you, but I grew up and still do read a lot of horror, including Stephen King. That was like my first option. So was it it was it important for you to fictionalize the story?
Arely Davis (27:37)
Exactly. Yeah.
Kevin (27:41)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (27:42)
Thank you.
Mm.
Wow, yeah.
Frank (27:59)
about revisiting the past? Did that really ring true to you in your life, in your sobriety journey as well? Was any of that like parallel?
Arely Davis (28:06)
Yeah.
That's a little bit parallel, yes, because I think that now the the longer I've stayed away from alcohol, the more clarity I've gained. And I can go into my past a little bit and see like, okay, so this is really what was happening. And in a way, it's it's kind of like a healing process, you know, to to be able to like jump back in and and just kind of ⁓ understand myself better again. Like, okay, so ⁓ I had
Frank (28:16)
Sure.
Arely Davis (28:34)
perceived these ideas that this is what was going on, but in reality, you know, ⁓ it wasn't that way. So
Frank (28:41)
Well, I think sometimes it's interesting when you journal. Did you adapt to journaling right away? I found it really tough in the beginning to get used to it. And I find that people are either very into the journaling or they have a difficult time. Was it very an easy thing for you to adopt as to journaling and how much did it help your recovery process?
Arely Davis (28:59)
⁓ it wasn't easy at first. I remember writing ⁓ things like I have nothing to say today. ⁓ I hate my handwriting. And I just my whole thing was like, Don't stop. Keep going for three pages. Just keep going. And I would even say that, like, don't stop really, like you've got this key. And then eventually some nugget would come out, like every single time ⁓ I finish. Actually, you know what? I'm gonna I just wanna
Frank (29:22)
Let's see.
Arely Davis (29:25)
I don't know how many I have filled out now, but like this is like my latest one.
Kevin (29:29)
⁓ yeah.
Nice.
Arely Davis (29:32)
Ha ha.
Kevin (29:33)
Got my
Arely Davis (29:33)
Yeah.
Frank (29:34)
That's cool, I guess. I see, Kevin, you've inspired people all over. We've been hearing every week. This is not the only show where we've talked to somebody who's Kevin.
Arely Davis (29:36)
Yeah.
Kevin (29:39)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (29:39)
Absolutely.
Kevin (29:42)
I know it feels I feel
Arely Davis (29:44)
Seriously?
Kevin (29:44)
I
Arely Davis (29:44)
Wow.
Kevin (29:44)
feel I feel like everybody elicited is like, dude, are you talking about journaling again, Kevin? Like ⁓ but like but like I love that 'cause I I I do that exact same thing. Like you you I write things like why do I feel like this right now? Like whatever the emotion is, like I you know, whenever I'm stalling trying to figure out like what's going on.
Frank (29:50)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (29:50)
⁓
my gosh.
Kevin (30:05)
It's like I just start writing down random questions or, you know, random things, statements about like factual statements just to just to start my pen moving. Right. And ⁓ and sometimes I sit with it, sometimes I close it and never go back to it. but a lot of times with those, if it if it's hard to come out, like it takes me a minute to maybe I revisit it the next day and I pull up that note on my phone or I pull open up my journal and
Frank (30:08)
You
Arely Davis (30:13)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin (30:30)
kind of be like, you know, I add a little bit more to it. And you know, it's just there is no right way to do it is always the my drum that I beat. you know, 'cause I I've approached it in so many different ways. It's changed so much over time for me. it can be simply writing down one thing each day that that you want to take note of, ⁓ or writing three pages a day of something, you know, whatever.
But yeah, it's just I feel like I have to open it up and write something, even if it's just the date at the top. and then if I'm like, Yeah, I don't got anything to say, I close it back up. That's it.
Arely Davis (31:03)
Yeah. Yeah. I try to. I I I go for like weeks, months at a time. And then if I have if I'm really busy and I can't, I will just write today I have only enough time to do one paragraph and that paragraph is blah blah blah. So ⁓ yeah. I was gonna actually ask ⁓ Kevin, do you did you are you familiar with the artist's way? Is that what st okay, so that's what started your
Frank (31:04)
Do you write every day, really?
Kevin (31:29)
No, that's not what started mine. And I haven't read just full disclosure, I have not read The Artist Way. I got the Artist Way and it's on my stack somewhere. ⁓ I read the intro about the morning pages and the artist date, I think is the other one. ⁓ just because everybody was talking about it in reframe meetings. So, did you do ⁓ morning pages? ⁓ and someone recently on either the podcast or on a a meeting.
Arely Davis (31:29)
Journaling?
Frank (31:37)
you
Arely Davis (31:38)
Yeah.
Yeah, the artist date. Mm-hmm.
wow.
Kevin (31:56)
made a distinction that I never thought of before because somebody thought that we were talking about morning pages like M-O-U-R-N, like so sadness and all of that. And they're like, Well, why would I do that? so morning pages are just yeah, the three pages that you write in the morning, just a brain dump, nothing, no agenda, nothing in particular. Do you do that? Yeah. Do you? Okay.
Arely Davis (32:03)
⁓ morning. wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Yes, I do. And I do the art estates too. Yes,
yes.
Frank (32:21)
How do you juggle
your journaling, your personal journaling with your fiction writing?
Arely Davis (32:26)
⁓ it's different different times. Yeah, I write in different times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the personal journey, the personal journaling is almost like therapy. Like ⁓ you know, and because actually when I was drinking, I when I was on that hamster wheel of like drinking, feeling horrible and hangover, and then doing it over and over again, I became so anxious that I needed something,
Frank (32:28)
⁓ just in time, is that what you do?
Right.
an
outlet, yeah.
Arely Davis (32:53)
Yeah, and exactly. And so now I do that to kind of ⁓ just remind myself like everything is okay. yeah, it's it's almost like a soothing mechanism in a way. Yeah.
Frank (33:04)
Yeah, I
totally agree. you know, many years ago, I, you know, sorry, trigger warning, but I had suffered a childhood abuse and many years later, what really helped me through college was I saw an art therapist and she was fantastic. I mean, I say she saved my life and what she would have me do is two different things. One week where I could draw or paint and, you know, just whatever.
And then one week I would write. And of course the writing was easier and I enjoyed it more. And that helped with the fiction. I think it's very therapeutic. Like you were saying, like writing is, whether you're journaling or writing fiction or just creative writing, it really does take you out of your element. And I think the reason why people struggle with journaling, if they do struggle at all,
is because I think they feel like they're being graded. Like in their head, you know when you write a book report, you know you're get graded. I think people, and including me, I would get caught up with the fact like, I can't journal, somebody's gonna read it and then give me a grade. And that's not the case at all. The idea is just to journal and not worry about being graded.
Kevin (34:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Arely Davis (34:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah. And what's great about like ⁓ realizing that you're not gonna be graded and that no one's gonna read it is that you can go back and ⁓ and then when you do read it, you you ⁓ you can have fun. Like I've made myself laugh out loud, like going back reading some of my entries and it's great. I mean, I I also ⁓
Frank (34:30)
Thank
Arely Davis (34:36)
appreciate like my penmanship. Like sometimes I when I'm angry, like it's all in caps and stuff. And and then when I'm feeling calm, my handwriting is actually kind of neat. So yeah, I can I get a lot from it. Like there's just so much.
Frank (34:50)
And so are you somebody I do both of you, do you go back and read your journals?
Arely Davis (34:54)
the first journal I did not and but now I do if I'm looking for something, you know, if if I actually what I need to do is because I do get some ideas from my novel when I'm journaling and so I I highlight them and then I can go back when I'm writing, writing, I can go back and pull those out. Yeah.
Frank (35:14)
Do you go back Kevin and read your journal?
Kevin (35:16)
I I started whenever I started on my journey with addressing alcohol, I started using the day one app. So I started doing it digitally because and and it was to do like Miracle Morning, the the lifesavers, the you know, the gratitude piece or the no the scribing piece. I did gratitude. So I would dump
gratitude in there in my in the notes, but I would also just brain dump you know, if I had a craving, I would say get curious about it. And I would I would use the the app. So it's a lot easier for me to go back into there and just kind of every once in a while if I feel like it, I go in and look like on this day and you could go back and I can look seven years ago. How was I feeling? What was I doing? with my my paper journaling has only really
Frank (35:47)
Hmm.
Kevin (36:03)
taken hold over the last year, I would say. So ⁓ I've done it sporadically throughout. I have a bunch of, you know, 10 pages in this one, 50 pages done in this one. Like, you know, it's before I like saw a new shiny journal that I liked and then bought that. ⁓ so I like this past year I've definitely gone more hard copy all the time and and I haven't gone back as much into those. because journaling for me too is like
Frank (36:05)
⁓ really?
Arely Davis (36:18)
Ha ha ha.
Frank (36:18)
You
Kevin (36:30)
Well, you know, I I kind of ⁓ I do bullet journaling where I'm taking my day, I'm writing my day down in it as well and tasks and all that. So I like doing that because it keeps me opening it up every day. but then with my journal entries and that, usually it's just to get it out of my head. I think the biggest help for that is not to look back. I mean, it can be a good thing, but ⁓ just get it out of here today, throw it down.
Frank (36:56)
Yeah.
Kevin (36:56)
and move on for at least a little bit
or help process it a little bit. Yeah. So it's the long winded answer to say kind of. How about you? No.
Frank (37:04)
I don't like to read what I wrote.
No, I rarely do go back unless... No, I don't go back. In fact, I'll be honest, I throw them out.
Kevin (37:13)
Okay.
Arely Davis (37:15)
Wow.
Kevin (37:16)
Okay, yeah.
Frank (37:17)
Yeah, once
Kevin (37:17)
But
Frank (37:18)
I'm done, I mean, it's very cool. you pretty much, if you write handwrite, that journal becomes like sort of like something you'd find on a, you know, in, buried treasure, cause it's like different, the paper changes and you, I also doodle a lot and I'll look through it, but I don't keep it. I don't like mementos, guess.
Arely Davis (37:29)
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Kevin (37:36)
Yeah. I s I started I started ⁓
I got this little picture printer thing. So I started printing out pictures and ⁓ like little stickers that you just put pop in there. Yeah.
Arely Davis (37:42)
Nice.
Frank (37:45)
I love that. That's a great
Arely Davis (37:46)
Yeah.
Frank (37:46)
idea.
That's really cool. I like that. think, I think if you can incorporate journaling with art or even stick figures, I think it's really, it makes a lot of impact because you can express yourself in so many different ways. I really, with all the groups that I've been doing, there's always an exercise where I say journal for five or 10 minutes. Don't stop. Don't think. Don't worry about penmanship, grammar, punctuation, just
journal. how far along are you with your novel writing? Is it a long process? Like how long is it in the making?
Arely Davis (38:19)
yeah.
It's a long process. I mean, I think I found out that it it has taken people as short amount of time as like eight months and then as long as eight years to write a novel. So I am gonna be somewhere in between that.
Frank (38:33)
Wow, that's
a big between.
Kevin (38:36)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (38:36)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I am going to eventually like have an actual goal so that I can have like these, you know, deadlines that I want to meet just for myself, you know, to push myself a little bit. Because now I know that I can. And that's ⁓ another thing that I appreciate about being ⁓ about having clarity and ⁓ understanding that I can believe in myself. Like, I mean it is it is possible to do things, it is possible to
Frank (38:47)
Sure.
Arely Davis (39:03)
⁓ be real to rely on myself, you know, and this is something that I just would have never thought of ⁓ in the past. You know, while drinking, it was more like, you know, what was more it was easier for me to come up with reasons why I wouldn't succeed. Why this was a dumb idea, you know? And I was ⁓ I was kind of mean to myself. And I was a little bit mean in general. I mean maybe not. Maybe now it's in my head that I was
mean but I
I've ended some habits that were very juicy back then. And those habits included I guess gossiping, maybe, and and just being negative. Like it was so easy to like fall into these like pots of negativity and and and stew in them for a little bit. and so it feels so good not to have that anymore, you know? yeah.
Frank (39:44)
Sure.
You know what I was
gonna say about that when you were talking, I was thinking, you know, to say I'm an aspiring novelist, you're putting yourself out there. And I thought, wow, and I don't mean this, like how brave of her, that's good. And I was wondering.
Like part of that is almost being accountable to yourself. Like it's okay if it doesn't happen, but I'm putting it out there and I'm gonna try. And I think it's so positive and it's so courageous. And I think that's great. And when you were describing yourself, like wanting to sit in negative pots, it makes me think because probably you were unhappy, like so many people who drinks. And so you're just, you know, sitting in that pot and just stewing about it and look how much it's changed your life.
that now you're thinking I'm going to write a novel and do it and actually do it and then actually talk about it. And so I'm being accountable in whether or not it takes four years or eight years is not the point, right?
Arely Davis (40:35)
Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. It's so true. It's it's so true. I mean, I'm just thinking about how ⁓ the knee-jerk reaction is to knock myself down like that, you know, that's just a silly idea. And you know, talk myself out of it. Like why, you know, why can't it be the opposite? Why can't I talk myself into it? ⁓
Frank (40:48)
That's great.
Right. You know,
it's, well, this is close to my work, but I've talked to Kevin about the shame that we feel, especially when we're drinking or the shame we feel about past incidents. And there is something that the shame that we experience, whether it's from drinking or the behavior of being gossipy in that voice that talks to us is really not your voice.
It's the voice of someone who programmed you to believe that. But certainly when we think about why can't you be nice, we talk about this all the time as one of the other tools is learn to talk to yourself like you would talk to your best friend. Would you say that to your best friend? No, you'd say, no, come out of it. You don't need to be gossiping. You can write a book and we'll gossip in the book. You know, we would turn it around. And I think it's very hard for people to imagine that.
Arely Davis (41:56)
Yeah.
Frank (42:00)
That voice is probably not ours, first of all. And second of all, it's probably not telling the truth. It's just giving you facts or versions of stories that you're willing to believe. And we're so willing to believe those stories sometimes. It takes a lot of strength and it takes a lot of work like you've done on yourself to say to yourself, you know what? That's just not true. That's not how I remember it. And you can only do that by having the clarity that you have. So that's great.
Arely Davis (42:26)
Mm.
Yeah, thanks.
Kevin (42:29)
W
what but Frank, what what if you like to gossip with your best friend?
Arely Davis (42:34)
Ha ha ha ha.
Frank (42:35)
But that's what?
I have an answer for that. That's my same answer when you say to me, but I like to go out to dinner and have a drink. Okay, the behavior doesn't upset you. So that's not such a negative thing. If you like gossiping with your friends, who doesn't like gossiping with their friends? This was something that was upsetting you. Like you were sitting in this sort of negativity.
and you found yourself just being more in that spiral of negativity or maybe it had to do with shame or maybe it doesn't. don't know you that well, but I do think it's behavior attached to the feeling. How do you feel when you did it? Are you upset with yourself? Are you happy? That matters to me. But who doesn't like to gossip?
Arely Davis (43:05)
Yeah.
Kevin (43:16)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just kidding too, because yeah, the point
Arely Davis (43:18)
Yeah. ⁓
Kevin (43:20)
the point being that yeah, it's you you it's these things that we beat ourselves up on and say like, I gotta stop doing this and ⁓ and then we just sit there, that's self flagellation or you know, th that type of thing where ⁓ it can get out of hand and it's just that perpetual cycle of ⁓ of shame, yeah.
Frank (43:22)
Great.
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah.
of shame. And
Arely Davis (43:42)
Mm-hmm.
Frank (43:42)
you know, the worst part about the shame spiral is there is behavior that makes me drink, let's say in this case, and I feel really bad about myself. And because I feel bad about myself, I'm gonna say I'm gonna drink again. And so there's the cycle. But the worst part about that cycle is not the slips, it's not the drinking. It's the voice that says, you're a bad person. I knew you couldn't do this.
Arely Davis (44:06)
Yeah.
Frank (44:08)
I knew it, so then you drink. It's really the self-incrimination that's the worst part because we want to believe it. And it takes a lot of work to undo that and say, you know what, I'm actually not a bad person. I'm actually really good. And bad things just happen to good people sometimes. They don't happen to me because I deserve them. Once you make that transition,
you start to really think about life in a different way, which is what you're describing to me. You really just came out of it thinking, I can actually, I have this one visual of you making bread or you cutting vegetables and feeling the real joy in the sensory of it, the smells, the feels. Like what a gift to yourself to think, I don't need to be numb to make dinner. I can actually feel the food and enjoy it.
Arely Davis (44:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah. you know, I one of the other things that I that it was a huge motivator was to check things off. It was sort of like a bucket list, but of like doing things sober. Like go to my first wedding sober, check it off. You know, go to my first concert, check it off, like all those things, and like it's almost like experiencing things.
Frank (45:08)
Sure.
Arely Davis (45:21)
all over again for the first time, like like factory reset, you know, style. ⁓ and be able to just ⁓ enjoy those things and truly be able to experience them. Because I I've loved forever going to concerts and ⁓ live music. It was it's it was kind of a thing that I really enjoyed doing. But then I remember also that my priority was getting to the alcohol as soon as I could.
Frank (45:25)
⁓
Arely Davis (45:47)
double fisting so I wouldn't have to wait in line again. And then you know, you have to drink those kind of fast for them to work or whatever. And then feeling sick and it's like, wait a minute, I just spent like, I don't know, $200 on these like concert tickets. And now I'm feeling like, la, you know, and so ⁓ being able to do that sober, I actually felt I guess like what a little kid feels when you run in the playground and it's recess and you're just running and you
feel like all those endorphins. Like I I felt that. It was so cool to to be at in that situation. Factory reset settings. And yeah.
Frank (46:22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Kevin (46:23)
Uh-huh.
Frank (46:25)
that's great. You know what that reminds me of? I went to my niece's wedding and I wasn't drinking, you know, and I was just like, how am going to do this? My family's going to be there. And I thought to myself, all right, I'll allow myself a glass of champagne when they do the toast. Like that's it. And there were activities, events, and I wasn't drinking. I was having a great time. And we went to the wedding and the toast came.
and I didn't drink champagne. You know what was so funny? I didn't even miss it. I think when you give yourself permission to just say, it's off the table and don't worry about it. And like all of a sudden you're thinking to yourself, you're at a concert, you don't have to run, you don't have to double fist it. Like what a tremendous amount of pressure is taking off your shoulders. Like you can actually go and listen to the music. You don't have to worry about like chugging beer. ⁓
Kevin (46:53)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (47:06)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Frank (47:16)
I'm
thinking of you chugging beers. We're going to get this party started. I know, I felt the same way. I was like, I don't have to have this one glass of champagne. What is that going to do anyway? You know what I mean? yeah, it's so funny what we, these stories we tell ourselves, like this is what we have to do. And then how liberating it is when you give yourself permission to say, let's just not do that. It's okay.
Arely Davis (47:19)
yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kevin (47:29)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (47:41)
Yeah.
Yeah. And also not get hurt because ⁓ I I remember ⁓ bumping and bruising myself a lot back then too. Yeah. So now it's like wait a minute, you know, it's like, hey, you know, I'm back from the concert, no bumps, no bruises. Yeah.
Kevin (47:43)
Yeah.
Frank (47:49)
⁓
No black and blues from last night. Yeah.
Kevin (47:55)
Yeah, yeah, nice. Yeah. Or unlike
the I think my coworker when I first started out of college, ⁓ deemed them ooties, you die ⁓ unidentified drinking injuries. we just show up with a bruiser. I have no idea. ⁓ I was cu I was curious, like, I love that che like that checklist of things like first concert, wedding, all of that.
Frank (48:07)
really?
Hahaha
Kevin (48:18)
Did how long until you kind of came up with that or did that? And and how are you feeling about those things maybe early on? Because, you know, those are things that people worry about. Like, you know, in six months, this so-and-so is getting married. How am I gonna show up there? Versus I can't wait to check this off my bingo card or mu check this off my checklist, a bucket list of things I can do. you know, that's a great way to
Arely Davis (48:38)
Yeah.
Kevin (48:43)
Okay, I this just popped in my head. Reframe it and and look at it differently. But that can be a difficult thing too, because there's there can be that worry. How am I gonna show up there instead of I want to experience this, you know, in that way. How you know, did that was that automatic automatic for you or was that taking a while to get there?
Arely Davis (48:45)
Exactly.
It ⁓
it gave me something to look forward to and it was almost automatic, just in in the same way that I used to say like okay, many years ago, like you know, whatever, 2017, 2016, I I would say, I really want to go on a whole like 30 days no alcohol, but
You know, it's so and so's birthday, and then I've got this baby shower, and then there's brunch with the girls. That's three weekends out of the month that I'm gonna have to drink. And so instead, yes, I did reframe it and I thought, no, no, no, now I get to go. I get to experience these things and be fully present and be able to enjoy them and remember them and actually like respect the the
Frank (49:24)
Right.
Arely Davis (49:46)
the event, like what whatever it is, whether it was a a wedding or my family and I, we went we went to France ⁓ in October. This is the second international trip we've taken. And I get to be there with my family and be fully present, you know? So it was it was more like that. Like I get to experience. Yeah.
Frank (50:02)
You
Kevin (50:08)
Yeah. Yeah.
'Cause it's the thing too, it's like it can two things can be the true. Like you have to do this, maybe, like I have to go. But you can also get to go. Like it's that whole again, changing the way we s we view it and and our kind of language around it or vantage point of it. ⁓ okay, nice.
Arely Davis (50:18)
Yeah.
Yeah,
I mean I was really excited to be able to check them off and say like, you know, it's not hard when when people would ask me like, how do you not drink? You know, it's gonna be, you know, our friend's wedding or whatever. I can I can enjoy it because I can enjoy it because I can, you know, and and so it would make me like double down, like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
Frank (50:44)
It's crazy how
people say that all the time. How do you do it? What are you going to do? It's and you think it's really not that hard. I mean, it's a choice, but I mean, and it can be a struggle depending on where you are. You know, it's so funny. I talked to Kevin about my trip to Germany and I won't get into that again. I did journal.
on my way there on the plane and everything. Like when I was at the lounge, all these activating places, the lounge, the plane, everything free. And I wrote to myself. And then when I got there, I did read it back because I was curious to see how it made me feel that I could do it. Like I could go on a trip and not drink. I was always thinking of like, let's try this as an experiment, but let's not do this and show up fresh and actually, you know, I don't know, sleep.
Arely Davis (51:09)
Yes.
Frank (51:29)
and get there rested. And I think that's really interesting. So maybe that's a good thing. I'll remember to do that. And I'll like read it more when I do something like check off these lists. I like that a little bit of a bucket list. First everything that's cool.
Arely Davis (51:31)
⁓
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kevin (51:44)
Yeah.
Yeah, 'cause the and I and I was curious about that 'cause, you know, ever everybody has something that they we worry too much about things sometimes. Like we worry about the thing that's and and some of it's rightfully so. I'm not saying that there's nothing to worry about and you know, people have different thoughts on that, but ⁓ I I just think challenge challenges sometimes because I remember ⁓ a particular wedding that I was concerned about going to and drinking at, and that was my daughter's.
Who was 11 when I said this? I was like, how what? You know, whenever I my brain was like, What? You're not gonna have a champagne toast at your daughter's wedding. My eleven year old daughter, like it like 20 years from now, wedding, like is where my brain went to like to to say, like, you what yeah, yeah. and and it's like stuff like that that or even like, ⁓ next year's vacation. It's like, okay, that's next year.
Arely Davis (52:13)
Wow.
Yeah.
Frank (52:22)
I'm sorry.
Arely Davis (52:24)
Yeah. ⁓
Frank (52:27)
about future tripping.
Kevin (52:37)
If it's this weekend, okay, let's talk about tools and things we can do. What can we what can we do now? But yeah, when we start the future trip and worry, it's it it it's never it's never gonna happen the way you have it made up in your head anyway. So yeah.
Arely Davis (52:37)
Yeah.
Я
Frank (52:47)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (52:53)
Yeah.
Frank (52:54)
That's a good lesson though, because when people
Arely Davis (52:55)
You know, mm-hmm.
Frank (52:57)
say that to me now, even so, think bring yourself into the present. I used to hate all the slogans or the bumper stickers. It really is one day at a time. Like don't get obsessed with what's going to happen next week. Somebody said to me the other day, yeah, but it's 4th of July. Okay. Let's just deal with today.
Let's just get through this weekend and then we'll talk about it. Like you said, what are the tools we can employ? What's it going to look like? Let's futurize this. What does success look like for you and how would you measure it? I don't know. Did you do all of that in the beginning with yourself or was it just cut and dry?
Arely Davis (53:33)
Yeah.
I mean, ⁓ honestly, one of my my favorite tool that I learned from reframe and might have even been Kevin who said this is play the tape forward. And so I would often reach for that whenever ⁓ the whenever I was in a situation where there was gonna be alcohol, I would play the tape forward and then remember like my worst hangover or like the worst thing. I would just replay that and say, like, yeah, I don't want that. That is not worth it to me. So
That was the tool that really helped me was like, how am I gonna feel 24 hours from now? And really because my angles were so bad, it would even be 48 hours from now. Like I would still have a headache. I would still feel like, ugh, you know, not good. And so playing the tape forward really ⁓ helped. And then I realized too that as much as I had romanticized alcohol and romanticized like being the cool girl with like the, you know, with the glass of wine and you know, riding in a cafe,
I was like, you know what? Let me romanticize like being sober, like being ⁓ present. Let me romanticize being on the beach and feeling like the sand, you know, and and feeling the sun on my skin. And that is enough. That's enough. Like I don't need a Mai Thai to go with that. yeah, so I I have I now romanticize ⁓ being sober and and having clarity and
Being rested.
Frank (54:53)
Yeah, you know, it's such a myth that people think to be a real artist, you need to be altered mentally or drunk or high. And when you think about the examples, like that's called the Bukowski effect that you have to be living on the edge, on the knife's edge to create real art. And when you think about like somebody like Jackson Pollock, who was a severe, severe alcoholic, like, I mean, in a car accident where somebody died.
His best, I think some of his best work was after he became sober. And certainly there, we've seen that over and over with a lot of people now, artists just coming out as sober and they're like, yeah, that myth that I couldn't create was in my head because it's not true. It was all, it was there all along. You were just not tapped into it. And now that you're sober or.
not drinking as much or not doing as many drugs as you were or not doing drugs at all. It's different. It's a fear. It's a genuine fear people have that they won't be as creative, but that's just proven false.
Arely Davis (55:44)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I feel like being sober and present is its own high. And I tell people that like all the time now when they ask me about how I'm doing. I'm like, well, you know, this is its own high. ⁓ this happened recently. ⁓ I was with friends that I hadn't seen in a while and they know that I had stopped drinking. ⁓ and so it was four of us. It was with my husband, and they were, you know, pouring wine and they were like, Are you still
Are you still not drinking? I'm like, yeah, I ⁓ this isn't like a phase. Yes, I'm not drinking. And then they were, yeah, exactly. And they're like, well, how is that? I'm like, well, I'm really alert. Like I'm really alert. Like, I don't know what else to tell you. Like, this is okay. Like, ⁓ yeah, it's it's its own high. It really is.
Frank (56:21)
Thank
No.
Kevin (56:25)
Are you still doing that?
Frank (56:28)
Yeah
I can do this.
Yeah, no,
I agree. Listen, being present is probably one of the greatest gifts. It's definitely saved my marriage, only because I know when things are not going well, and if I had been drinking, would have been worse for the wear. And now I'm like, okay, okay, what are the facts? What do we need to do?
I'm not jumping on board and making things worse. I'm just trying to be more level-headed and you're absolutely right. I think being more present in the situation has certainly helped me with my decision-making by a long shot. That's good.
Arely Davis (57:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kevin (57:17)
Yeah. Okay. I know we're coming up on time here, so should we should we get to ⁓ our last segment and then you can give us any parting words, the rapid fire. Yeah, well it's like what did you learn this week? Right. It's like could you this could be completely off topic, not sobriety related, just a little nugget for the listeners. I I just had one come to me if you know, from ⁓ w both of you and what you were talking about. ⁓
Frank (57:19)
yeah.
Arely Davis (57:20)
Yes.
The rapid fire!
Kevin (57:44)
But it is ⁓ getting into using multiple senses. when you were talking about perfume and the smells and but like the you were on the beach and your feet in the sand and the sun on your skin and the d your hands and the dough. And talking about being present, I I love that technique of and and I always forget it. So you you can both help me here. ⁓ the five, four, three, two, one.
Frank (58:07)
Right, right.
Kevin (58:08)
Which is I know it's five things I can see, right? Four things I can touch, three things I can hear, two things I can smell, and one thing I can taste.
Arely Davis (58:08)
⁓
Touch.
Frank (58:14)
Yeah.
here.
Maybe.
Arely Davis (58:22)
That sounds
right. Yeah.
Kevin (58:23)
Yeah. Cause I feel
like the taste is like the harder thing to do because it's like, okay, how many things you know, if I'm eating I can say five things, but ⁓ but that's always a you know a good thing to to get into. But actually, yeah, being present with just being in your like okay, the dough or the cooking or ⁓ just anything we're doing. ⁓ yeah, that's that's that's mine I'm going to practice ⁓ a little bit this week.
Arely Davis (58:27)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Frank (58:48)
That's a
really good one. That's a very good one for anxiety. Yeah, it's very good
Arely Davis (58:52)
Yeah,
absolutely. Yeah. Well
Kevin (58:54)
So see, it did come
Frank (58:56)
⁓
Kevin (58:57)
to my nugget did come to me.
Frank (58:58)
yeah, you had a nugget and you had it you went first. Yeah, that's a good one. All right. I'll go second. Mine is, well, it's always going to be something medical, but I, my God. So long story short, I went for my full physical and I felt that for before I went for some reason, I started getting really
Arely Davis (58:59)
It's a great nugget, yeah. Yeah.
Kevin (59:00)
I I know, I made sure I got that in.
Frank (59:18)
negative like, my God, I had a birthday and now I'm getting older and I don't want to go for this full physical. And I think it was because I'm seeing friends of mine get ill. Like one of them had a heart attack and someone else, you know, had something else and I decided I would, I should go. And so I was reticent. So my nugget of the week is.
Please take care of yourself. Listen to your body before your body tells you something is wrong. And I, I, it was, I couldn't tell you the relief I felt after I went, after he was like talking me off the ledge because I had a high calcium score and he was like, so what, you know, you're already on a statin, nothing you can do. It's preventative because of my dad died of a heart attack. And I guess I've been thinking about him for father's day, but again,
⁓ it was such a relief to be over that. And I guess that's what I want to impose to everybody. Don't wait. Don't put off getting your physical. If you're due and certainly do the whole thing. Eyes, a dentist and full physical. I recommend them highly. So that's my.
Arely Davis (1:00:26)
Good. Yeah, we all need that reminder.
Kevin (1:00:27)
And don't wa don't Yeah. And
don't wait, would you say don't wait until well I'm gonna wait until I have this many days of alcohol free or down to this many drinks or this much weight or whatever. Just do it.
Frank (1:00:38)
No, no, no, no, actually that's a good point. That's a
great point. At least you know your baseline where you are and how you can improve. And the other thing, and I'm sorry, but so many reframe. Are on calls with me where they say I'm having surgery. And I think what a gift you gave yourself. You are now alcohol free. You are going into surgery in the best shape of your life. You're setting yourself up for success and not only the operation, but the recovery.
So if that's anything like Kevin said, don't wait, don't put it off. At least you know the results now and you can only, there's only room for improvement. So good. Thank you for reminding me of that. That's a good one too.
Kevin (1:01:19)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (1:01:19)
Good.
Kevin (1:01:20)
No, thanks for sharing that, yeah.
Frank (1:01:21)
All right, everybody.
Arely Davis (1:01:22)
Let me see, my nugget.
I think I'm gonna go with like ⁓ yes, I like the I like we were talking about perfume and that's my favorite subject ever. So I'm gonna be intentional with my perfume and I'm going to use that to kind of just like spritz my aura, you know, like kids are using the word aura these days a lot. Like spritz my aura, it's gonna be intentional. And when I put it on, I'm just gonna be like, okay, you know what? This is gonna be my bouncy force field.
Frank (1:01:38)
You
Kevin (1:01:39)
It's not alright, yeah.
Arely Davis (1:01:48)
And yeah and I get to choose how I want to smell. Yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna choose to smell like ⁓ like cherries on leather. How's that?
Kevin (1:01:50)
Nice.
Frank (1:01:59)
What? Cherries and leather?
Kevin (1:02:00)
Cherries and
leather, nice.
Arely Davis (1:02:01)
And shechuan
pepper. So nice and spicy. Spicy and sweet. How's that?
Frank (1:02:02)
Okay.
Right, I gotta remember that, spritz my aura.
Arely Davis (1:02:08)
Mm.
Kevin (1:02:09)
It's my aura, yeah. That's good. I like it. yeah, pet peeves nugget is like perfume commercial and cologne commercials are the most ridiculous commercials ever, but I'm guessing they're they're they're giving you like a fantasy, yeah. well thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, yes. so
Frank (1:02:10)
Yeah.
you
fantasy.
Arely Davis (1:02:22)
Yes, exactly. Yeah. The Dior sauvage, yeah. Yeah.
Frank (1:02:26)
Yeah.
Kevin (1:02:28)
Yeah, I th that's funny. I that's one that pops into my head. ⁓ yeah, thank you so much for joining us today. Is there anything you'd like to share or any parting words you'd like to give? Feel free.
Arely Davis (1:02:29)
Ha ha ha.
Frank (1:02:34)
Yeah.
Arely Davis (1:02:34)
My pleasure.
⁓ well thank
you so much for having me and it was great to meet you Frank. ⁓ yeah I I really I really like ⁓ both of your vibes together I think was it's really awesome. So yeah, cherry and leather. We won't
Frank (1:02:43)
Yeah, same here.
It's cherry and leather.
Kevin (1:02:52)
That i that is that is great.
Frank (1:02:56)
who is what?
Kevin (1:02:58)
Yeah. That
that's kinda like my my old Instagram l name, my personal account that was like it basically was alcohol, barbecue, and coffee. This was before this was before ⁓ but I called it salt and ginger because I'm just going gray and ⁓ my ginger hair was going away. But yeah, maybe add a little maybe I'll be if it was ginger that's a little bit more thing ⁓ specific, but ⁓ yeah.
Arely Davis (1:03:10)
⁓ that yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, there are ginger perfumes, by the way. Yeah.
Frank (1:03:25)
⁓
Kevin (1:03:28)
cherry and leather. That's funny.
Arely Davis (1:03:29)
Yeah, check out God of Fire. That's a good ginger perfume.
Kevin (1:03:32)
⁓ yeah, we can we can start our own podcast with that name, Frank. There you go. that's funny. yes, thank you so much. ⁓ and thank everyone for listening to another episode of the Reframable Podcast, brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol.
Arely Davis (1:03:33)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kevin (1:03:51)
It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. I want to thank you again for listening and be sure to come back for another episode. Have a great day.
Arely Davis (1:04:05)
Thanks. Bye.