Quit Drinking Without a Crisis

Join Coach Kevin and fellow Reframer Chennelle Miller for a conversation about noticing when alcohol starts making decisions for you, and deciding you're done with that.This episode looks at the "do I even qualify?" question, how a habit can grow quietly alongside a fit, responsible life, and why no one needs to wait for a crisis point to change. It also covers practical ways to handle social situations alcohol-free: bringing your own drinks, answering with confidence, and not over-explaining.
From there, the focus turns to what keeps change going long-term: community as a daily anchor, the power of repetition, and the shift from "I can't do that anymore" to "what can I do?" You'll also hear how the pull toward drinking fades over time, from needing something in your hand to simply not wanting it, and why those quiet wins are worth celebrating. Whether you're cutting back, alcohol-free, or just curious, this episode is a reminder to meet yourself where you are and keep showing up.
Please note: nothing in this podcast is medical or mental health advice. Always consult your healthcare provider about what's right for you.
The Reframeable podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the #1 app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. If you have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast@reframeapp.com or, if you're on the Reframe app, give it a shake and let us know what you want to hear.

Transcript

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Kevin (00:00)

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframable Podcast, a podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more. Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe App. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellach. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app. Today we're joined by fellow reframer Chanel Miller. Chanel lives in Raleigh, North Carolina, where she's a marketing and communication strategist, a former gym owner and coach, and a mom of three.

She's been alcohol free for 785 consecutive days since July 29th, 2024. And she'll be the first to tell you it wasn't about a rock bottom. It was about noticing that alcohol had started making her decisions for her and deciding she was done with that. When she's not working out, she's chasing down new coffee shops, adding to her Eric Jordan collection, or picking up the guitar.

She is not joining this meeting from the Peloton or the treadmill though. So welcome Chanel. How's it going?

Chennelle Miller (01:20)

Thank you for having me. It's going very well. The Peloton workout was already done this morning during the midday UK meeting. So we're

Kevin (01:28)

Nice.

Chennelle Miller (01:28)

good. Yeah.

Kevin (01:29)

Awesome. way to get that in there. Hey, multitasking, right? I mean, yeah, I'm not a fan of like when people are like, I'm an excellent multitasker, 'cause but yeah, when you can two birds, right? I mean, why not?

Chennelle Miller (01:42)

Absolutely. And you know, it lets everybody know that it's real life. We're just all there together and in fact if I don't show up on the Peloton or treadmill, people start asking questions. They will chat with me and ask me if I'm feeling okay. So

Kevin (01:55)

Yeah. Is there an injury? What's

going on here? Why why haven't I seen you doing that?

Chennelle Miller (02:00)

Yeah,

it's good. Good community. And it's nice to be noticed in that way and to kind of motivate others too 'cause especially in the midday UK meetings, or on Saturday, we'll have people who say, like, I'm motivated now or I can't do what you're doing or you know, but they notice and that's that's all part of the fun. So

Kevin (02:20)

Yeah.

but you can't you know, I don't know what the context of you c I can't do what you're doing, but maybe, you know, it's like you start small or I don't have the maybe I'm not in a space to do that or whatever. But yeah. 'Cause I notice you're

Chennelle Miller (02:32)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (02:34)

not doing that usually on the journaling meetings, you're usually not on if I recall a Peloton or a treadmill. So you gotta it's kinda hard to write on and ride.

Chennelle Miller (02:41)

No. I cannot.

However, I will say that I have pulled out the phone and recorded journaling notes if I'm driving or something like that. So

Kevin (02:50)

Hmm. Yep.

Chennelle Miller (02:52)

I definitely take advantage of whenever I can be in that journaling meeting. not to throw any, you know, praise your way, Kevin, but that is definitely part of my journey journaling. And so if I can be on there even off camera.

I definitely take advantage of it and then I'll write it down later.

Kevin (03:10)

Yeah. Yeah, I love that with the and thank you. but I'm glad that it's helped. But

Chennelle Miller (03:14)

Yeah.

Kevin (03:16)

the you know, being able to like if you're in the car, like I've done that too, or or if I'm out on a walk and something pops into my brain and I'm like, Okay. I

Chennelle Miller (03:24)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (03:24)

I don't have although sometimes I do walk with like a little pocket journal, but I'm like even off of that, I'm like I'd have to stop and and write something down. I'm like, this is like a full fledged thought and I just pull out my phone and

open up my journal app and you, you know, you start talking into it and it transcribes it. So there you go. You can copy paste. You can do whatever. go back to it, search it. so I do like that as a another option. Or if if you don't like to write, and some people I've had people who, you know, their hand hurts or have issues, you know, let's just say carpal tunnel or something like going on where, you know, you can't, I can't write that much. It's like, well just record it. There's no

Chennelle Miller (04:00)

Yep.

Kevin (04:01)

Get get the thoughts out of your head. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (04:01)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, you have to get comfortable with that. And it's not a for me

it wasn't an easy thing to do. And I started doing it when I was working, when I was at at my office and when the journaling meeting was at a different time and day and it just it just came it's now easy. It's like secondhand. If I'm not

Kevin (04:24)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (04:24)

journaling, I get mad at myself for not actually squeezing it in.

but that's just because I went all in on all of the tools that were presented to me when I joined Reframe. And sometimes you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable in order to make gains.

Kevin (04:40)

Yeah. In order to get comfortable.

Chennelle Miller (04:42)

Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah.

Kevin (04:44)

yeah. And sometimes, yeah, it's like what what comes out of, you know, anything. Like if I'm meditating or if you know, I'm not gonna say I'm a meditator because I want to do that more. it's just

Chennelle Miller (04:54)

Hmm.

Kevin (04:55)

not on the priority list right now. But like if you're meditating, if you're working out, if you're whatever it is, yeah, what comes out, yeah, even if you're you've done it consistently or whatever, doesn't mean what comes out's gonna be comfortable.

But yeah, start small, dip your toe in, make a to-do list, make a grocery list. Like that's journaling. it's start with gratitude, one thing a day, whatever. okay. So today's

Chennelle Miller (05:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's been good.

Kevin (05:21)

today's podcast is brought to you by the journaling meeting.

where where do we begin? Where would you like to begin?

Chennelle Miller (05:28)

well, you know, there's always a date, right? I feel like that's always a good place to start anytime you get into communication with somebody who is also on their, you know, alcohol-free or cutback or mindfully moderating journey. There's always a date or a few dates, whatever the case may be. For me, there's just one date, which was July twenty-ninth, two thousand twenty-four.

I can remember really just doing a Google search to find I use my phone a lot. It's like my traveling computer. so I was just Googling like what's a good app for keeping track of my drinking or helping me figure out how to stop drinking, just like

I'm also tend to be a researcher. So like I wasn't just settling, I wasn't just deciding on reframe, but there were a few things that struck me about it, which was you know, like the science side of it. kind of just goes back to the researcher part of me. So I was like, you know, I'll give it a shot. It was already a decision that I had to come to terms with, which was

I don't want to be in this place anymore with the way I am coping with stress and how it is becoming more than just social drinking. but anyway, so I I downloaded the app and just plugged in all the information and talking back, you know, kind of referring back to that getting uncomfortable with.

being comforta sorry, getting comfortable with being uncomfortable to get

Kevin (07:00)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (07:01)

comfortable. you know, just just the simple fact of saying, I'm going to research this is a lot. That's

Kevin (07:09)

Just

I'm gonna research not the app, but what alcohol is doing. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (07:16)

You could. Yeah.

Yeah. I I just I just recognized in myself that I wasn't comfortable with how

getting like deciding I was going to or making drinking a priority. Like I'm going to do this so that I can do this. And then I need to finish that so I can go have a drink of wine or

Kevin (07:36)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (07:36)

whatever it was. and then it would become associated with things I was doing. you know, making dinner or going over to the neighbor's house or whatever. and it just became like habitual.

so just deciding like to be honest, do I need it? Like I'm, you know, with the intro set, I I work out, I used to own a gym. Like, yeah, 10 years of being a coach at a gym, owning the gym, coaching kids, coaching adults, coaching professional athletes. and then also having this other side of me that I felt like was a hypocrite.

when I was I will say though that during when I was coaching and owning the gym, that wasn't like I wasn't as deep into the drinking as I became once I closed the gym in 2020. so I wasn't really like to me it was just casual social stuff at that point.

Kevin (08:28)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (08:30)

but you know when we closed the gym and then it was COVID and

I'm not blaming it on COVID by any means. It really was sort of just a culmination of all kinds of stress. And for some reason my mind was like, yes, we're just gonna go ahead and open this bottle of wine and then we'll just go ahead and not close it. it came to that. Like it just escalated over time. It wasn't

Kevin (08:54)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (08:55)

it wasn't I'm gonna pour this and then I'm just gonna keep going. It just

Like, I'll just have another one. so yeah, it was coming to terms with what was happening. Do I quote unquote qualify as someone who should or needs to use the app?

Kevin (09:14)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (09:15)

But my perspective on that has totally changed, and I can talk about that at some point. But yeah, just coming to terms with.

Yeah, like I need to do something about it, but it was a definitely a personal decision. No one else really had any influence on no one else, period, had any influence over my decision to do that. There was no pressure from anyone at all. It was all internal of me recognizing my behaviors associated with drinking.

Kevin (09:41)

Yeah, and that's

course I I'm little I'm I'm

Chennelle Miller (09:43)

Yeah.

Kevin (09:44)

biased, but my opinion would be like if you are somebody who drinks on a regular basis, even if it's like one drink a week, I I you know, I think anybody can benefit from the app itself as far as the information and the, you know, the the knowledge that you get.

Chennelle Miller (09:59)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (10:00)

But yeah, there's obviously different there's different levels. There's black, there's white, and there's a lot of gray in between. You know, it's the gray area drinking and all of that. is considerable, but whatever you, you know, however you see yourself. was the closure of the gym COVID related, or was it like, I'm already thinking about this and it just happened to be a the lineup where it's like, well, this might make sense.

Chennelle Miller (10:26)

Yeah, it was it was really a culmination of that. Yeah. there were other factors too. I mean, I had been considering closing the gym for a couple of years leading up to to having to face some major decisions surrounding the COVID protocol with owning a business and particularly gyms and health clubs were specifically named.

Rightfully so. and then there was also like leasing things and landlord, you know, building changing hands and things like that. And and really when you well for me, I spent ten years coaching thousands of athletes over that time and

I was very knowledgeable and you know, at that time well known in the circles of CrossFit and

Just

I th I was just ready and I had been contemplating that sin when my kids were born. My I have twin boys, who were born in two thousand fourteen and they grew up in the gym, which I loved.

Kevin (11:32)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (11:33)

They still have memories from there and you know, that's pretty cool. but it just once I we had the twins, like I was like, I this is this is a lot. Not to mention just like having twins,

Kevin (11:46)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (11:49)

and then running a gym full time. And my perspective of owning the business was I wanted to be a part of the community as much as I possibly could.

And I was very involved coaching. Always if I wasn't coaching, I was there from cleaning the floors and bathrooms to helping someone go through a movement or learn or, you know, welcoming new people, all everything from everything

Kevin (12:12)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (12:12)

you can imagine. and that was my jam. Like that's what I loved to do. And I still do, but then it just became stressful because I also had to raise two two boys and

That's a lot to handle. and I was, you know, just said to hire new people and then it doesn't become mine as much anymore. it goes into the hands of other people. And I just felt like it was time. If I can't give a hundred percent of myself and not feel good about it, then I need to stop. But I will say that if I'm gonna relate it back to alcohol,

I could totally blame the gym because we would always do these wellness challenges, which I implemented. And at that time, like it was very popular to do like zone diet and then paleo and primal

Kevin (12:57)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (12:58)

and all of these different things, which is which is great. but one of them was like, you can have four ounces of wine a night.

Like, sweet. But I know, like, I'm I know that that is subjective, right? Like,

Kevin (13:14)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (13:14)

in terms of what does that do for your health? There's different studies that say one thing or another. You can choose to believe whatever you want about it.

Kevin (13:20)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like

you can believe the blue zone, like, a little alcohol's good. It's like but am I doing everything else in a blue zone? Am I h how's the community?

Chennelle Miller (13:32)

Right. Yeah.

Kevin (13:34)

How's the do I walk the X amount of day or you know, whatever it is. yeah.

Chennelle Miller (13:37)

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. It it's and that was like when I first opened the gym that I did that. And so it became while I was doing this wellness nutrition challenge, it became a habit to say,

Kevin (13:53)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (13:55)

here you go. Not only am I it was like an unintentional habit of drinking.

Kevin (14:02)

Was it like the permission on the diet? 'Cause I I had a similar well, not a similar thing, but I had I credit Tim Ferris and no shade at Tim Ferris of the four hour body, his book

Chennelle Miller (14:11)

Sure. Mm-hmm.

Kevin (14:12)

and slow carb diet and all of that. But he specifically says, I don't think he puts a cap on it, but I'm sure he d I'm sure he does say like, you know, a certain amount of wine. But I was like, I can drink wine on this. And I I started drinking wine more, and it

Chennelle Miller (14:25)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (14:27)

that was definitely

Did it did it work the diet itself? Sure. But then my wine, you know, increased.

Chennelle Miller (14:35)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (14:36)

You know, I I shifted it from a different alcohol source to that at the time.

Chennelle Miller (14:40)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (14:40)

But yeah, I still remember that and being like this probably isn't good whenever he probably doesn't recommend a bottle or so of wine a day. But

Chennelle Miller (14:49)

Yeah.

Yeah. No, I mean I stuck with the four ounces. Like I legit bought

Kevin (14:54)

Really? Okay.

Chennelle Miller (14:55)

like Kevin, I don't like if you tell me these are the rules, I'm gonna follow the rules. So I've bought it's it's

Kevin (15:00)

That's four ounces, it's four ounces. 'Cause I'm like four ounces isn't even a glass. Like a five and a half

is what I consider a glass of wine, right? One.

Chennelle Miller (15:08)

Well,

you know, if you go and get one of those miniature little like port wine glasses, that's what I had.

Kevin (15:13)

Okay. That's four.

Chennelle Miller (15:15)

And I would pour it in that.

Kevin (15:18)

Okay.

Chennelle Miller (15:18)

And we would joke around and say we would call it juice. Be like, let's get some juice. Like, you know, grape juice. but yeah, no, I stuck with it. It was four ounces, but

Kevin (15:27)

Okay. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (15:28)

it was every night and it became a habit and it absolutely stayed. And I don't know that that was the intention.

of the wellness challenge by any means. And I don't think it was the intention of Tim Ferris, but the fact that we have yeah, no, but the

Kevin (15:41)

No, I don't either. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (15:44)

the fact is that you we've got two people, you and I, right now, saying this happened. Like, how many other people has this affected? because you just don't know. It just becomes like a reason. and I

Yeah, everything else with the well, this challenge was great. And technically it was great with that. Like I would log that every you know, you kept all your stats. But

Kevin (16:05)

Yeah. And

there's nothing wrong I'll I'll be the first to say there's nothing wrong with that. It's just does it does it go somewhere else from there?

Chennelle Miller (16:15)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And you have no idea when you do it. You really like I didn't think about it then. That was two thousand and ten ish, two thousand

Kevin (16:23)

Okay.

Chennelle Miller (16:23)

eleven. and yeah, it just never getting back to that, it just never went away. and I didn't really think about like my family itself isn't there's a little bit

We didn't my parents didn't drink growing up. I didn't even have my first drink until I was a senior in high school because I was afraid of doing something wrong.

Kevin (16:43)

Okay. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (16:44)

you

know, like like I said, I was a rule follower. I became a police officer and then I opened the gym. Like I'm not opposed to rules. It's just and to be underage, right? So that's why I didn't didn't do it. and even then it was just very sporadic after that. and I didn't didn't really do it when I was in college. And it really did not start until

that wellness challenge and it it was fine for a little while. Like for the next well really until for the next nine years it was fine. I wouldn't even consider it like it was just sporadic. It wasn't even after doing it for that wellness challenge, which might have been, I can't remember, maybe eight weeks or something like that. it wasn't consistent after that. But when

We closed the gym. That was it. That was like that's when it started to heighten. And then, you know, as four years went on, I just remember yeah, go ahead.

Kevin (17:42)

Now

you just remember what? I don't want to interrupt.

Chennelle Miller (17:46)

I was

gonna say, like, I just remember being over and watching, you know, like football games with a neighbor's house and just seeing some of the people that were I would still call friends, but more now acquaintances, like

Kevin (17:58)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (17:59)

Just remember looking at them and thinking, like, I don't want that. You know, because people would talk to me about it and I'd be like, I'm not comfortable talking about other people, first of all. Secondly, I'm all in my own fields right now because I know that I could be that they just had no idea. because I would be I would I wouldn't do it with them. I would go back.

to the house and do it on my own. And that's where the secret drinking would come in. And

Yeah.

Kevin (18:31)

Still

still working out, still consistent in shape, fit, all that kind of thing. So

Chennelle Miller (18:38)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (18:39)

and I'm saying that because you know, other people are gonna going to be like, Well, you're you know, you're fine, you don't have an issue or whatever. Like it's easy to say like because they don't see it.

Chennelle Miller (18:50)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (18:51)

And that I'm just goes to show like is

I hear it so much about how I'm the only one with this problem in my friend group or family or whatever or or nobody, you know, nobody nobody knows what I'm going through. And it's like you don't nobody knows what anybody's going through really because, you know, doesn't sound like people would be like, yeah, have you heard about have you seen Chanel lately? Like doing her

Chennelle Miller (19:16)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (19:17)

be you know, so it's like yeah, I drank a lot while I was out.

Then I'd come home and drink more. And like it was like that piece that, you know, nobody saw that continued to fuel that just increase for me. But yeah, whenever it's you know, behind closed doors, you know, it's easy to for everybody to think like, I'm the only one because I don't see anybody else doing it, or I don't see people like me doing it, or whatever. But you just don't know.

Chennelle Miller (19:44)

N no. and I would even because my neighbors lived like directly behind the house. And so we'd just like cross through the fence.

Kevin (19:55)

Okay.

Chennelle Miller (19:56)

but I would, knowing if we were going over there, I would even like pre game, like I would legit like sneak like a shot or just slam a beer or whatever.

before I went over there and then I would have

Kevin (20:13)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (20:14)

like one drink while I was there. And then I would leave early because I become antisocial when I don't to to be honest, like everybody else is getting very intoxicated and I'm like over it. I'm like, okay Yeah, I'm gonna

Kevin (20:25)

Yeah. More social and then yeah.

Chennelle Miller (20:29)

I'm done. I'm an Irish goodbye this and leave. and then I would go back to the house and you know just

I would have another drink or something, but I wouldn't I never went to the very rarely would I go to the point where I would, you know, like get

where I couldn't function

Kevin (20:47)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (20:47)

because I still had three kids to take care of. and I recognized that. And I was very I I would consider myself very responsible. But it doesn't mean I wasn't accumulating the drinks. So yeah, I mean I would do the sh let's just say I would do the shot and then I'd go over there and I would have a drink. And then it would come back and I would have a drink. I would do all the kid things. They'd go to bed.

And then I might have another one, or I would have one while I'm getting their dinner ready or something like that. So it's it's over time, but it all adds up. It's all still there in your

Kevin (21:20)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (21:23)

system. but I never I was I was I would consider myself responsible with it. you know, I wouldn't put myself in a position where I was going to not be able to handle myself so I thought.

To be of sound mind, if you will, and I wouldn't I wouldn't drive. but I knew that I didn't like that my decisions were being influenced by when I could, how I could do it, would anybody notice me doing it? I would become

like irritable with my kids because I'd be impatient, because I would want to I wouldn't be able to like have a drink or you know, I would be irritable because the drinking would cause anxiety. Like you if you have young kids in you you can't you there's no control anyway. And for me, the personality wise, it's

It's already I'm already on edge. Like I'm that way now and I haven't drank for two years. So like

Kevin (22:23)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (22:25)

that just drinking made it worse, anxiety worse, and that impatience, and it just becomes a shorter, shorter string. And it's not fair to the kids either. Like they didn't do anything wrong. They're five or whatever. and I recognized that. And when it when I it just became enough.

Like I I just didn't like the way the person that I was presenting. I didn't

Kevin (22:52)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (22:52)

like where it was leading. and so I had to decide what I was gonna do. And I mold it over for for a little while and then finally just downloaded the app that day. I mean, I had to mull over like like I said, do I qualify? I don't know, but I don't care. I'm going to see what happens.

Kevin (23:13)

Yeah. And yeah, do I qualify? So you downloaded on July twenty ninth, twenty twenty four. Okay.

Chennelle Miller (23:20)

Well,

I think I actually downloaded the day before. you could look it up. I'm sure someone has that data.

Kevin (23:23)

Okay. Yeah. We'll give you some gra we'll give you a grace period. We won't hold you to I'm sure I could find it, yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (23:29)

and I may even be wrong. This is just what I recall. So if you do look it up and it's more like, well, Chanel, you actually downloaded it on July twenty seventh, I don't know, but I know that I

Kevin (23:37)

I I I am not fact checked in it, so don't worry.

Chennelle Miller (23:40)

I know that I did I stopped on July twenty ninth. Like

Kevin (23:44)

Yeah, yeah.

Chennelle Miller (23:44)

And

I didn't even do like the well this is my last day, I'm gonna take it all in, you know, like I didn't do that.

Kevin (23:50)

Go out with a bang. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (23:51)

Yeah, I didn't do that either. I just I was like enough is enough.

Kevin (23:55)

Did you what did you do? Like did you say like I'm done with this? Or like how what how did you approach it at that time as far as, okay, it's July twenty ninth, I'm not gonna drink today, and my thought is what?

Chennelle Miller (24:08)

I just said I'm I'm all in. And I that's kinda how I well, like I said, with the gym even. I'm either in it or I'm not. I don't I I'm not really good at that gray area. So that's why I knew that I couldn't for me, I couldn't just be like, I'm going to cut back. That wouldn't work. There's too much math for one. I don't want to be responsible for saying

That's just me. I credit anybody who can do that. Like you are probably way more disciplined than I am with just saying, no, I'm not doing it, because that requires a lot of thought and commitment to just say, okay, that's it. But that's not the way my brain worked. I was either going to have it have the drink or not. so when I said today's the day, it was more like, okay, I'm doing it. Like I'm jumping off the cliff and I'm just going for it.

And I'm not gonna s like my mind was set that I'm just I'm just doing it.

Kevin (25:04)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (25:04)

So yeah, there weren't there wasn't a any fanfare or I didn't tell anybody that I even did it.

Kevin (25:10)

Well that's what I was gonna ask, like okay, so then what? Wha

Chennelle Miller (25:13)

Yeah.

Kevin (25:13)

how did that show up in walking through the fence to go to the neighbor's house? What did even before that, like, how did that

Chennelle Miller (25:19)

Exactly.

Kevin (25:19)

feel like when I would I would you would normally pour that shot or grab that drink beforehand? Did you notice that or was it kind of just an off switch at for the things like that?

Chennelle Miller (25:30)

Mm in the beginning, so I I'm separated now, but at the time I I just said I'm to my partner, my spouse, I'm not I'm done drinking. I didn't say anything that I was committed to an app or anything like that. because I wanted it to be my journey, to be honest. I didn't want to involve anybody else.

Not because I was afraid of failure. I just I was our I'm not gonna go into the separation, but I was already in a place where I was just like, I'm I'm doing this for me. I don't need anybody's help. I don't want anybody's guidance. I don't want anybody's opinions.

Kevin (26:09)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (26:10)

Just it's just for me. I don't want anybody to check me on anything. Just me. so back to your question about the feelings. Yeah, I mean

I think that I was already because of my background in health and fitness, I already that already gave me a little bit of an advantage, I think. At least I applied it in that way, in that I recognized that there were things I was gonna need to do to close the gap. Meaning, if I'm not I still wanna be with my friends and go watch a game.

But they're gonna be drinking and I'm not. And what was I gonna do? Because the mentality was I'm not going to drink. That was fine. Not to say that the urge wasn't there or the thought wasn't there, because it certainly was, and it still does come up.

Kevin (27:04)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (27:05)

but I knew that I needed to find something, like I said.

To close the gap. So what am I gonna do? Well I just started packing my own drinks and bringing them over. So seltzer's or kombucha or

whatever. Like I just or I just didn't. I just most of the time I had seltzer because I drank seltzer. I still do here.

Kevin (27:23)

Yeah. yeah.

Chennelle Miller (27:25)

anyway, so that was it wasn't uncommon. You know, it didn't it didn't stand out as something odd. But I will say the first time where that became like, okay, I'm really gonna have to reel myself in.

was when we went to a birthday celebration at a nice restaurant inside a hotel. And I knew that I'd be sitting at a table with everybody else who was having drinks.

that was when the willpower really had to settle in because I couldn't go anywhere.

And y I don't know, you just for me I just was sitting there like, I'm not gonna drink, I'm not doing this. I didn't have to keep saying it. It just it's more in your presence con constantly. Whereas you I can't move from a table, right? And when

Kevin (28:10)

Yeah, yeah.

Chennelle Miller (28:10)

I'm outside watching a football game, I can move around, I can go do whatever, I can distract it. but I just was like, I'm not drinking, you know, when people would ask me. I didn't care, I didn't have to give a reason. I'm just not.

And then they'd be like, okay. I mean, I didn't have any people, I didn't have anybody. Some people would be like, huh. Okay, well, why is that? And like, I don't know, I just don't I'm not I don't feel like it. Go away. No, I'm just kidding. Leave me alone. sometimes that

Kevin (28:34)

Like just just today or yeah, just today or like forever and

Chennelle Miller (28:41)

question would come up, but you know, I don't know. I feel like I probably gave the answer that was like, I'm gonna answer this one time.

And you probably don't want to ask me again, but just that presence, like I'm not, like the confidence. You know, if you answer with confidence, the likelihood of someone coming back with a follow up question is not gonna not gonna happen. But it does maybe happen more often when it's a stranger, like somebody you're not as comfortable being around, you know, they're they don't see you every day, they're not gonna question your your decision. At least the group that I would travel around with.

But yeah, just making a just making a plan. And that was before I even really was very much involved with the community and and and that was, you know, one of those tools that you can use and think about. I just did it.

Kevin (29:33)

Just did it from the standpoint of like just stopped and you're not talking about like the community aspect of reframe, you're talking

Chennelle Miller (29:40)

Just I I knew that I I was gonna stop

Kevin (29:44)

huh.

Chennelle Miller (29:44)

and I didn't do much research on what the app provided in terms of tools at that point

Kevin (29:53)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (29:53)

yet. but early on I just knew that I needed to do something to keep my hands busy and you know to have something to drink that was going to replace what I might drink.

Kevin (30:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

And that's a great idea too on the confidence piece of and I I say this to people, I'm like, even if you're not feeling confident that day, you don't have to say that. Like it it's like offering that wiggle room. I always felt like, you know, I tried to take away I'm an overthinker, so I I went down all the rabbit holes of like, well, who's gonna be there? What are they gonna say? What's this person gonna say? What's that person gonna say? What am gonna tell them and them and them? Because

It could be different because I was trying to, I don't know, fly under the radar as much as I could, right? I didn't want to draw attention to myself. and usually I mean the spotlights on us, right? But everybody else has their own spotlight on them too and think and aren't paying attention to us as much. But but yeah, being competent with it. Like, no, I you know, I'm just trying something new. Yeah, I'm not drinking now. What whatever it is.

I would say after a while it was, you know, my standard line was just the, yeah, I was drinking a bit too much. And, you know, I I so I throw that in there, especially for people who knew I drank a bit too much. I was

Chennelle Miller (31:07)

Yeah.

Kevin (31:08)

drinking a bit too much and took a break. And when I did, I felt great and I kept it going. Like that's the standard line. if they want to ask more questions, yeah. But e even if I wasn't feeling great that day, even if I wasn't confident that day, I tried to have that line.

ready just because it was easier. I

Chennelle Miller (31:24)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (31:26)

don't you're not we're not gonna feel confident every day. I didn't

Chennelle Miller (31:28)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (31:29)

want to leave the door open for people though to be like when I was like, yeah, I don't think I'm drinking today, it's like come you know, because then when I say I don't think I'm drinking, it's like, come on, just have one. And like have you

Chennelle Miller (31:38)

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

No, I I never really swayed from my response. I I would say no, I d I don't drink. I'm not drinking. you might get the well why not? And I don't want to. Or the more curious people would say, How's that going? Or like

Kevin (31:58)

Are you still doing that?

Chennelle Miller (31:59)

Yeah, or yeah, it's

And you know, it became, yeah, I haven't for X amount of days. And you know, I only I'm really good at just answering what they need me to answer. I don't word vomit.

Kevin (32:15)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (32:15)

that's just the best way. Like, I'm gonna answer your question. If you want to keep going, feel free. I don't mind answering the questions either, but it just depends on who the person is and

I don't feel the need to have to explain my decisions when it came to that specifically. because I was determined to do it and still am. but I do understand that not everyone has that mentality. but I because I I just know that that's who I've always been, and you know, it tends to

Lead into the people that you're around the most, and they know the people that you're around. If they truly know you, they to me a good friend would just be like, Cool, what can I do to support you? and that's that's the the feedback that I that I got. And in fact, it turned out to be like, I'm so proud of you, or

I think I'm gonna do that too. How did you do it? Or can you help me? That's those are the kind of people that I was around. But I get that not everyone has that. and it's hard to break those relationships if when you're posed with that friction. because you're trying so hard to do what's right for you and you know, people are not showing the same care that you want.

Kevin (33:37)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And there's always somebody, yeah, that will pull stuff out like it's like, come on, like I I hear that four ounces of wine tonight is actually good for you. Like you know.

Chennelle Miller (33:46)

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Well it's interesting. That's the s that's like the daily for me on my path in the app, it's that's like the story today is where the daily read is talking about like media intelligence. I mean, what you read isn't necessarily what's true. You have to sort through it all. I mean, and it's that's true with everything.

Kevin (34:08)

Yeah. Yeah. or it's like selective, right? It's it's part true or it's taking a a study and pulling out one thing out of context and yeah, totally.

That's that I was always looking for I just need I just need one person. I always joke that because I I seriously saw this and I was like, there we go. I'm like I saw the 97-year-old guy in Texas who drank whiskey, a glass of whiskey a day and smoked a cigar every day and he's healthy as a horse, blah blah blah. And it's like and I'm like, okay, that's not me. but I used it.

Chennelle Miller (34:40)

Okay.

Kevin (34:42)

yeah, that

That selective selection bias. Is that the

Chennelle Miller (34:46)

Yeah.

Kevin (34:46)

right term there? but yeah, and not everybody has the not everybody has the confidence or the relationships like you just mentioned.

Chennelle Miller (34:58)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (34:59)

so yeah, there's a lot of different variables for people like pushing back, other people pushing back, or just like maybe I'm at a point where it's like,

I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I, you know, am I doing this forever? I don't know. Like, my, you know,

Chennelle Miller (35:11)

No.

Kevin (35:12)

how long do I have to do this? Or, you know, my my my cutback you know moderation journey isn't isn't going as well as I'd like it to be. So what do I say? Do I have to disclose that to people? And the answer is like, no.

Chennelle Miller (35:23)

No.

Kevin (35:23)

Like we can just show up and yeah, keep it simple. I love how you you mentioned that as

It's not like, you know, you're not answering the questions, but not adding superfluous information. Yeah, the simpler the better. the more straightforward the better. The more honest, the better is how I always see it. get it out there early. Like if someone texts you and says, Hey, you wanna come over? We're having drinks and this, text them back and be like, Sure, I'd love to. just you know, I'm not drinking, so don't don't bother buying stuff for me. Like I'll bring my

Chennelle Miller (35:56)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (35:56)

own. Like

Saying that in advance allows that person to wrap their head around it if it's the first time you're telling and and then you don't have to have that conversation. Well, you could, it might lead to a conversation, but you don't have to s talk about it like when you get there and then be like,

Chennelle Miller (36:10)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (36:11)

no, I'm not doing that. Like, you know, the best just what's the best way that I can show up for myself?

Chennelle Miller (36:18)

Yeah,

and for for those who are, you know, gonna be listening to this or are right now, I would say, you know, you've already taken this, you've already taken this brave step, I think, to download the app, to put your information in there. That's so in a way, admitting to yourself and saying out loud that I'm going to do something about it. So

The next step is I need to say that out loud. I need to let I need to that's like another step of bravery. And just acknowledging that you're doing it, being afraid of maybe what that person is going to say back or how they're going to receive it. That's scary sometimes. And that is that's why if you do it, you are just advancing further.

Towards your goal of abstaining or not, you know, using you know, not in drinking as much as you you would. but that is why within the app itself, participating in what is offered in terms of community, the forum, the meetings, the groups, chatting, you don't I mean, I barely share on camera.

I mean, I think I've done it five times in two years. but I participate in the chat, I'm on camera. But when I first started, I didn't, I wasn't showing my face on camera. And now I work

Kevin (37:38)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (37:38)

out on camera, so it's like whatever. but I realize that by doing that, you are in some ways holding yourself accountable. and allowing yourself to accept.

That that is a part of who you are right now and it always will be. Just depends on that level for you.

Kevin (37:58)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (38:00)

and actually, I remember Kevin, one of the the first times I shared not with my voice, but I typed something in the chat, and it was likely before a journal meeting, because you tend to read some of the comments that people say in the chat.

But it it might have been an answer to a question, but it was definitely in your meeting where

y it was like I just said something to the effect of I don't know if I'm going to be alcohol free forever, but I do know I'm alcohol free right now. And you said that out loud. and that clearly stuck with me. But that's just to show like you don't know going into this what is going to be a memory later. So just be comfortable n

Knowing that in whatever way you participate in the community, you're doing it for you. But you also could be doing it for someone else. In this case, Kevin, you voiced what I had to say. That gave me affirmation that what I said was valuable in some way. And then other people are also reading the chat and they're listening to you say it. And then I get that feedback too.

And it it just is a s you know, it's a it's a domino effect of of goodness. And

Kevin (39:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (39:20)

that's what that community aspect is in the app. And that's that is irreplaceable, especially if you're not getting that support outside of

Kevin (39:30)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (39:31)

of the app. And it just it is mind boggling when you people are like, Well, what is reframe? And you d it's like I don't e I just stutter and I

Kevin (39:40)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (39:41)

I I really do. Like I try. I it beg but if they're not if the people who ask that question are not genuinely interested, they're not gonna sit there and listen to me stutter. They've zoned out a long time ago

Kevin (39:53)

Yeah, yeah.

Chennelle Miller (39:54)

after they asked the question. And I'm fine with that, because I don't really even know what to say. Because you're not me. So you're not gonna understand why it means so much to me at this point. Well, why are you why are you still doing that?

Two years later. Why not?

Kevin (40:13)

Don't worry, that

that was a question I had teed up

Chennelle Miller (40:15)

Okay, great. I'm ready to

answer it. I'll pause. Go ahead.

Kevin (40:18)

Well no, I I was just th 'cause I was going to

ask that. I'm like, okay, well, seven hundred and eighty five days, you know,

Chennelle Miller (40:24)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (40:25)

still doing meetings, all of that. Like what you know, and the app and you know, so it's not just meetings, but what because, you know, you hear in meetings that either th there's a thing, recovery fatigue or whatever you wanna call it, you know, anything we go

you know, not necessarily all in on, but maybe all in or just more in on and and focus on for a while. You know, there's a reason why people do 21 day challenges or 30-day challenges or whatever, because it's a it's a finite short period of time.

Chennelle Miller (40:58)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (40:59)

It's doable because motivation runs out, because you know, we get fatigued with continuing something longer. So

It makes sense, especially if you and and we're usually motivated and excited and we do a lot of it. So maybe we go to five meetings a day or something like that. Maybe not, but you know, whatever. It's like you go and do more. You're like you're doing your daily task, you're in the forum, you're talking to people, like you're excited about it. But then over time it's well, okay, you need to find what the right balance is for you. And that doesn't mean that at a certain point you you you can graduate.

If you want to call it that, like and some people might I have heard people call it that, like I'm taking a break from reframe, I'm gonna graduate and do this. And I always will say if I hear that from a client or from somebody in the community, it's like, well, you know, it it kind of is like the gym metaphor, right? Comparison of, you know, if I get, I went to the gym and I eventually over time I got in shape. It's like, okay, I'm done. I'm gonna I I have to go back to the gym tomorrow if I wanna keep it, right?

I have to keep doing the thing that helps so which can change over time, you know, but what is it that keeps you going and what do you what do you get out of the the meetings, you know, still.

Chennelle Miller (42:19)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, just from a high level, you know, I I've tried all of like I've I don't invest a ton of time in the app resources. That is my decision. I will say since the two years that I've been a part of the app.

Absolutely. The options have increased and sharpened and been wonderful additions. And I'm really thankful for for those options for me, whether I choose to use them or not, they

Kevin (42:49)

Mm.

Chennelle Miller (42:50)

are there. And they just, you know, they continue to broaden and increase in number. so that's phenomenal for for people who are starting out. I don't participate in the forum at all.

I did a little bit in the beginning. but the meetings were where I felt like I could gain the best because what I found for me was I could either sit in front of my computer and be on a meeting. I could listen on my phone while I was walking or working out or making dinner. I could have my AirPods in.

Kevin (43:26)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (43:27)

or just on while I was working. and I would absolutely I would go in I would go into work and my day would be structured around meeting times because that was important to me. They meetings to me were

Helpful in many ways. immediately I think of it keeps me on track because it's just a constant reminder of what I'm doing for myself. But also

You share this common thing with everybody else who is there in that room with you, whether it's 60 people or 300, whatever it might be,

Kevin (44:06)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (44:06)

for a speaker share or something. That's that's not something that you just pick up by walking outside and and talking to someone while you're getting the mail. Like,

You just for me, I would learn something every single time I would do a meeting and I still do. So that's what keeps me going to the meetings. And I still I mean I still I'll I'd say, you know, like this morning I did the midday in the UK and I probably will jump on the noon meeting. My schedule allows it, so why not?

and in the beginning it was really, really important to me that I not miss a meeting. If I could do it, it was on my calendar.

Kevin (44:53)

Okay.

Chennelle Miller (44:53)

Now I will say, if I can't do it, it's okay. I can't. In the beginning, it was I don't want to. It's really important to me, and I would be like irritated if I couldn't do a meeting. but

I would say two.

You know, I just it just is a way to learn. I mean, even from the coach's perspective, when the coaches who are, you know, peers, absolutely, which is nice, because that, you know, you can have perspective that way. But also, you know, they're they have experience and knowledge about all of these things and how to talk to people about those things and give feedback and

give perspective. and no matter what someone else shares, there's always something that you can glean from that. And that's why I still go to the meetings. I don't need to go to the meetings now to say, I don't know what to do. I I I might have a drink or something. I'm those those triggers are pretty much gone. The

Kevin (45:58)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (45:58)

thoughts sometimes peek in your head.

whatever reason, but that's even rare for me now.

But yeah, I just and I still do my daily tasks and I do the drink count and even though I know it's zero, I don't even look at the stats really. I just look at the days.

Kevin (46:14)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (46:16)

because for me that's all I need to do. I just like to know. And it's hard to believe it's been more than two years, to be honest. you just go one day after t one day after another and that's

Another reason why doing the app has been helpful because it is a way to say it is even if it's just it's just this app, it's keeping me accountable. I want to be able to do this or that. and if I don't, it's like, I forgot to log yesterday. Okay, well, I can just log it now. I mean, it's it's still part of my day. It became a habit, a good habit.

versus the four ounces of wine every night became not the good habit.

Kevin (46:57)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (46:58)

So

Kevin (46:59)

It's I mean we need I think we need these like anchors in our day, whatever you want call them, that what are the things that we do that keep us going the direction that we want to go? Right.

Chennelle Miller (47:10)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (47:10)

And that can be a lot of different things. but yeah, you know, the the meetings themselves, I would say yeah, the the overarching topic.

Is related to alcohol. But none of my topics I've had, I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Google Docs that I've created for because I because the one or two times that I did a meeting without a Google Doc, like I'm I'm not good off the cuff. I will I will babble. that's why I'm like, let's get this script up and running

Chennelle Miller (47:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (47:44)

ahead of time. Like stay focused, Kevin. but the

All of those, sure, there are a handful that may be directly related to alcohol itself. However, the majority of them are ways to deal with the things that we're dealing with or to, you know, to expand. You know, it's not even deal with it, could be focusing on new things like movement or rest or whatever.

Because it's not about alcohol, right? I mean, alcohol is the thing that we typically will use. Sure. It's a way to connect. It's a way to de stress. It's a way to whatever. But that's the thing. It's like, why, why do I need that to connect? Like, how can I do that in other ways? How why, you know, if it's helping me de-stress, great. But it's not solving my stress. Like, I'm not actually addressing that. And and I'm not sitting here saying that it's easy or that.

you know, you just need to address the things that you you got going on, right? I mean, twin boys come to mind. We're you know, anytime I hear twins or something like that, like my daughter's an only child for a reason. We we planned on having two and we had her and she was fine. But we were like, I'm good. Are you good? Like, do we need to you know, so we and

Chennelle Miller (49:02)

Yeah. Yep.

Kevin (49:03)

we weren't outnumbered or

Or like two at once. Yeah, I couldn't imagine that with I've heard I have friends who have twins and it's just like Yeah, you know, it's everything el you know, all at the same time. You it's I'm gonna shut up because you're like, Yeah, Kevin, I know. No I

Chennelle Miller (49:20)

No, I I I don't ever

it is you you have your experience, I have mine. That's where I that's what I say. Like,

Kevin (49:27)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (49:30)

even if you know, I call it like a bonus kid, there wasn't a plan for two either. But my experience is not going to be the same as somebody else who has twins and

Kevin (49:38)

Somebody else's, yeah.

Chennelle Miller (49:39)

what you experienced with one. There's so many factors in that. But with learning to your point of

Learning from one another, it's a cumulative effect.

Kevin (49:50)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (49:51)

It isn't just that one day. It's

what your what your mind is going to receive in that hour, but then what about the next meeting or the next one? And

To your point too, it isn't the topic is great and absolutely you can pull knowledge from the topic. But we're talking real life. Like,

Kevin (50:15)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (50:16)

how am I relating to what is my life? How can that be related to someone else who's sharing in the chat or verbally? That to me is how I can learn. You can tell me all the stats about.

Well, alcohol does not help inflammation. It does not help your anxiety. Yes, I know that. But I also know I need to figure out how I'm going to go on vacation where

Kevin (50:41)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (50:42)

I usually have drinks at the pool. What am I gonna do with that? And like mentally and physically and all of these things habitually when you it's repetition.

So it's cumulative and it's repetition. If I am able to hear people share their story about whether it was, you know, like, is it real? Yeah, it's real. I also had this challenge and I was successful because, or this happened and it wasn't ideal, but I'm back here changing it because again, it's cumulative. It is repetition.

And if I were to relate it to like teaching someone how to do a squat, it's like if we just b break it down into the most basic functional movement you can do. And your doctor tells you you can't do squats anymore.

Kevin (51:40)

doctor told me that after my knee surgery. At least with a bar on my back.

Chennelle Miller (51:42)

Right. Well

well, there's a whole other we can talk about that another day, Kevin. I can tell you that. But it's like you're being told

Kevin (51:48)

Well but no, I'm just saying like but I can do air squats.

Chennelle Miller (51:52)

you cannot do this, you cannot change. That is not true to me. You may not be able to do it the way that if you're gonna do a perfect movement anymore, but you can do something.

So my response is, do you sit down on the couch? Do you sit on a toilet?

Most people say yes, but

Kevin (52:16)

I was like, am I supposed to answer this?

Chennelle Miller (52:17)

No, most people say yes.

Do you have to do it with assistance sometimes? Maybe. Do you do it slow? Maybe. Okay, that's something that we can work with. Because you are squatting and you're getting back up. Do you pick something up off the floor? Yes. Do you do it in the correct way probably every time? No. You bend over and you bend your back, but we can teach you how to fix that. That's a deadlift.

Do you put something up on top of a shelf? Maybe you can't reach it. Maybe you can. You're gonna either push it or you're gonna pull it from the shelf. Those are movements you do every day. So

Kevin (52:54)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (52:55)

when your doctor tells me you can't squat anymore, that's not true. We just have to adjust it. So when it comes to drinking, for me, the translation was well, I'm not drinking anymore, but what can I do? I can show up.

Listen, learn, drink something else instead. And then eventually I'm gonna get better at not drinking. So it's a positive over a negative. Just like, yes, you can squat, but no, you can't do it in the perfect way. Positive over a negative. And yeah, it's it's just it's

It's just that. Just keep showing up. Keep doing the stuff. And you're not gonna do a perfect squat every time. Even someone

Kevin (53:43)

Well yeah.

Chennelle Miller (53:44)

who's really good at it's not going to. So if you mess up, okay, you messed up. Keep coming back. No one's no one's no one's judging you at all. It's all here.

Kevin (53:56)

Yeah, it definitely is. And it's yeah, we get in our own way too, where it's like, well, back in three years ago when I was I was doing this and I was doing I was able to do this without and we could talk about woohoo squats, or it could be, I was able to my drinking was under control at this time. And it's like that's great. It's where you were. Meet yourself where you are.

Chennelle Miller (54:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (54:21)

And I and that is huge. I mean, because and that is difficult, right? I mean, people have you know, I'm not gonna lie and say I don't, I'm I do, but about many things, but it's like how can I meet myself where I am now if I want to do something, even if it's some something new, if it's something like I've done in the past, whatever. But recognizing that, yeah, I mean, we

Th there's so many things that, you know, we can't do like we used to, unfortunately. And it's it can be hard some things might be harder than others to come to terms with. I've seen it in a lot of different ways for myself and others. but yeah, what can you do? Not it's like with alcohol too. It's like we could have this feeling of let's say deprivation of I can't do this anymore. I can't do this the way I want to, or

You know, I'm trying to moderate it to a certain level and and that's you know, w we're frustrated with that or whatever.

But what are you getting to do? Like I know

Chennelle Miller (55:19)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (55:20)

it's not it's not turning it's not looking for any silver lining, but it's looking at like, well, you have to look at the flip side. There's two sides to every coin, right? It's like, I well, I can't do this the way I used to, but I also get to do things the way I wasn't doing before.

Chennelle Miller (55:37)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (55:39)

What what is that? What do I want that to be if I if I'm not seeing it right now?

Chennelle Miller (55:43)

It's a mindset that isn't necessarily something that shows up right away. And that's

Kevin (55:48)

No.

Chennelle Miller (55:48)

that's why it's important to just keep coming. Even if it's

Kevin (55:53)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (55:54)

five minutes, just

Kevin (55:56)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (55:56)

show up.

Kevin (55:58)

And just because it is that, you know, power of habit, he talked about that where researchers, you know, were researching, you know, AA and why does it work? And they determined it was belief. was a big part of it. Yes, the steps, the the framework can be helpful and all of that, but one of the pieces for longevity was belief that you could change.

Not belief in anything in particular. It wasn't belie you know, cause they're yeah, because that was one of my favorite parts where it's like the researchers determined like or or they didn't like whenever they were told like, well, it was because of the higher powers, because of God. You know, that was the belief part of it. And they were like, Well, researchers don't like that. They can't test that, per se. But it was but it wasn't that they found. It was belief that I can make a change, and that comes from seeing other people make a change.

And and having that more of a growth mindset. And like anybody going into a reframe meeting, into reframe, into the forum, into anywhere, you know, else, it's like, yeah, I may not be there, but at the yet. Like I'm not there yet. Like I don't know how to do that yet. I can't I can I can sit on the toilet and squat there, but I can't do 10 squats, you know, air squats yet.

Chennelle Miller (57:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (57:12)

you know, so it's like, but can I work up to that and and seeing other people?

Do that, I think, is important. and

Chennelle Miller (57:19)

Yeah.

Kevin (57:19)

share and sharing in some way, even if it's just showing up. I think I consider that sharing. It's just like, you know, you putting that in the chat that that one time about, you know, I don't know if I'm gonna be alcohol free forever, but I know I'm alcohol free today, and that's what's important. And me reading that, like you that that impacted you because I said it out loud and to everybody else in the meeting heard it.

Chennelle Miller (57:40)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kevin (57:43)

But somebody else in the meeting heard it, right? So you don't know who you helped that day by saying that in the chat.

Chennelle Miller (57:49)

Yeah, exactly.

Absolutely.

Kevin (57:52)

Yeah. But what can I do? You said. So yeah, that's a good question. anytime that we you know, if we're like, I can't do that, follow it up with that. But what can I do?

Chennelle Miller (58:04)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I I would say when you've when you were when you were talking and kind of going through the the feedback on that question and answer, I was thinking back to how it my what am I gonna put in my hand instead situation, how that changed too. Like at first it was

Well, I'm gonna try all these different non-alcoholic peers. And so I did and stocked the refrigerator with those. And

Different seltzer waters and which already had, kombucha. Like those things became my go-to. And then I remember one day going and I would only have like one or two. Like I wouldn't, I was like over it after one or two. But then I remember one day just being like, I don't even want this. Like, I don't want to finish my kombucha today.

Or I'd open a can of non alcoholic beer and I'd be like, I don't want this. It wasn't a I don't need it. It was I don't want this. And that is because I did the repetitions to know I don't want it. And that's okay if people still do, even three years later. Like that's what they want. But to me,

It was part of the process of separating myself from drinking alcohol. And I don't look at the non alcoholic beers and kombucha the same anymore. Not that it's ruined me because it hasn't. I still like them sometimes. But

Kevin (59:44)

Yeah, same.

Chennelle Miller (59:46)

it was yeah, it just was that that gradual like, okay, we're we're stopping.

And we don't need to have anything in our hands anymore. We've that's gone. It just was like this this one day. And even now, sometimes I'll be Yeah, I'll have I'll have a non-alcoholic beer and then I'll open it. And I'm like, no, don't, don't want it. And I'll just dump it down the sink. It's like

Kevin (1:00:05)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:00:08)

it's like I'm even trying to want it and I don't. which just seems it seems so strange, but that's a great thing. you know, I'm allowing myself to try that.

But I'm also not allowing myself to drink. So I'm not even doing the non-alcoholic so that I don't drink. I just wanted to have a it's not

Kevin (1:00:31)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:00:31)

satiating the the I want to drink thought at all. It is which is

Kevin (1:00:38)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:00:38)

also a cool thing for me. It's like

Kevin (1:00:41)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (1:00:42)

I just wanted a beer. N not because it has the alcohol in it, the taste or whatever.

It's not me saying, Let me go grab a non alcoholic because I'm super stressed or something like that.

Kevin (1:00:54)

I yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:00:57)

just changes over time. And it just happened one day. I was like, hmm, okay, cool. That's great.

Kevin (1:01:01)

Yeah, keep the ritual, change the recipe. I hear it all the time. Say it all the time. Like it's that that helps in the beginning to keep that consistent sorry, like that consistent thing in in my hand. Something

Chennelle Miller (1:01:15)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:01:15)

in my hand. doesn't even have to be it doesn't have to mimic what we drank. It doesn't have to be the non alcoholic version of that even. But just having something in your hand is, you know, it's comforting, right? and over time

Yeah, if you take away the the desire, the need to the the all the planning that comes around like I need, you know, okay, I'm gonna have this drink and I'm gonna have this drink later and then when I get home I'm gonna have that. Like you take away that, it's just like, Well, what do I want now? not what do I need now? Yeah, exactly.

Chennelle Miller (1:01:46)

Yeah. It's and when I was first substituting in the kombucha or the non alcoholic, it would be like you know, you'd still think

I really would like wine instead.

But you didn't I didn't make the choice. I still was like, nope. Just keep drinking the kombucha. And then it became, well, you did pay all this money for this bottle. So now you're gonna drink it because you know, and then there's the the kombucha.

Kevin (1:02:12)

Are are we talking kombucha or wine or what here? Okay.

Chennelle Miller (1:02:16)

kombucha. You know, you're gonna finish it because you you know, this is why you're doing this. You're drinking kombucha so you don't drink the wine, but also now

Kevin (1:02:20)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:02:23)

you've now I'm like translating it into

paying for it. But eventually, because I'm already I'm distracted by those thoughts, right? Now I'm not thinking about drinking anymore. And it goes away. And eventually it doesn't even show up. So

Kevin (1:02:37)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's over time that

Chennelle Miller (1:02:40)

Works.

Kevin (1:02:41)

yeah. I mean it's it's the it's the repetition, it's the neural pathways that are, you know, for many years ingrained with we have wine or whatever at this time w or when we're doing this thing, and it takes time for inserting something else that's not let's say let's say it's not an addictive substance.

Chennelle Miller (1:03:04)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:03:05)

I wouldn't classify kombucha or non alcoholic beer as a addictive substance, but the

Yeah, and and just

Meaning yourself where you are. You know, and gradually it changes and yeah, then one day you realize like, nah, I don't need that today. And that's

Chennelle Miller (1:03:19)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:03:20)

a win. Celebrate it. Those

Chennelle Miller (1:03:22)

Absolutely.

Kevin (1:03:23)

are the big ones. Like whenever it dawns on me that I didn't do something that I normally would do or think something that I normally would think. And then it like shows up way later or the next day or something, I'm like, Holy shit, I didn't think about drinking it all yesterday or

Chennelle Miller (1:03:37)

Yeah.

Kevin (1:03:38)

yeah, I didn't

Reach for that, reach for the kombucha 'cause I ha you know, I felt like I had to. yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:03:45)

Yeah, it's it's a nice feeling. and definitely if it happens when it happens, if it happens for you, you know, as you said, it's a win. Like recognize it, celebrate it, because now you're teaching your brain that that's what you want to do again.

Kevin (1:04:02)

Yeah. Well, and you're wrapping other things around with it too, right? It's like wrapping around that you're telling your brain, like, well, no, I planned the tape before. I do want to wake up feeling this way tomorrow, not that way, and whatever else that comes with it. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:04:16)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (1:04:17)

While I still have, you know, maybe a short fuse with the kids or work or anything, it doesn't mean that

it it's still longer than it used to be, right? Because yeah, because I'm not in that state of agitation all the time.

Chennelle Miller (1:04:34)

Absolutely. No, that let me the I'll be clear. That agitation is still present.

Kevin (1:04:39)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:04:40)

It is but again I don't

I can decide how I'm gonna get better with that and not have to worry that it is caused because of

Kevin (1:04:51)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (1:04:51)

alcohol or or having had the alcohol and then that affecting the way that I'm presenting my myself and my behavior, my reactions or non-reaction. but then I I can decide, like, okay.

This you made these decisions and it didn't have anything to do with that. So what is it? What is causing this?

Yeah, it's it's it's a lot. You learn a lot and you have to be open to it and knowing that, you know, regardless of whether it's a win or not, you're learning something along the way. You just have to decide if you're gonna store it or not.

Kevin (1:05:30)

Awesome. Well thank you for for joining us.

Chennelle Miller (1:05:33)

You know, I think another thing that really and maybe this will ring true for somebody else. That's why I'm gonna say it, is that I would because I work out all the time.

I knew that I had to stay hydrated and I needed my electrolytes to stay up and to try to mitigate any additional inability to work out or train effectively or become dehydrated in general, I would plan ahead and drink, you know, an electrolyte drink or yeah, like I would just

Drink like a whole like a thing of electrolytes of whatever

Kevin (1:06:14)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (1:06:14)

brand you want to put in there. not the sugar kind, not like Gatorade, because that's sorry, Gatorade, don't do that. But other things just to

Plan ahead of, well, I know I'm gonna have a drink or four. So I need to make sure that I do this so that I can work out. Like again, I get the negative size of the alcohol, but I am choosing to still do the negative, but I'm gonna try to not be as negative by doing this.

Kevin (1:06:49)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:06:51)

That's just that's where it was like, that is ridiculous. That is ridiculous behavior. And you know better. Like w it doesn't make any sense. Just stop it. So

Kevin (1:07:01)

Yeah. Yeah. And and you

you're using electrolytes, but I mean you can put anything in here as far as yeah, what did I used that coconut charcoal pills that were the charcoal

Chennelle Miller (1:07:12)

yeah.

Kevin (1:07:12)

was supposed to filter out the toxins, right? It was mid I was trying to mitigate the impact of drinking. Or I was gonna I was going to be another people are like I was going to be on at thirty nine, I was

right around the corner from blood pressure meds and cholesterol meds and all of that, if I kept doing what I was doing, which would have helped my blood pr pressure and cholesterol, right? But I it wouldn't have taken away the source of the issue, the major source of the issue, I should say. but

Chennelle Miller (1:07:37)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kevin (1:07:41)

yeah, there's a lot of things we could do to mitigate what alcohol or anything, you know, but what alcohol is doing.

Chennelle Miller (1:07:49)

Yeah, it's like why go the extra mile just to do that when you it just it was it's asinine in in my mind it was and it really is now. Like but that's a real thing. Like to your point, you did the same thing, just just with a different thing. Like,

Kevin (1:08:05)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:08:07)

what are we doing? Go go spend your thought process on something else, you know.

Kevin (1:08:09)

Yeah. Yeah.

Or or the the whole like, well, I'll just I'll just beat myself up in the gym tomorrow because I drank too much today. It's like, so you're gonna just doubly doubly you're gonna doubly, I'll I'll use that as a word, hurt your body. right. I mean, because

Chennelle Miller (1:08:23)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely.

Kevin (1:08:26)

you're you're already stressing your body from the alcohol and you're punishing it with exercise and sweating even more, making yourself even more dehydrated, which if you're mitigating with electrolytes, that's good. But

But it's the fact that like, okay, that's probably not the best thing to do. Well, like if you look like I just I just got this whoop band, I used to have an aura aura ring. But yeah, so you know, like I this is brand new to me, but I've talked with many people who use it and given me their recovery percentages and scores after drinking and not drinking.

Chennelle Miller (1:08:57)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kevin (1:08:59)

Huge difference.

Chennelle Miller (1:09:00)

Yeah. yes, it is. And the numbers, that's data that doesn't lie. And it's

Kevin (1:09:06)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:09:06)

it's real. And also, you're kidding yourself if you think you can show up to the gym and kill it being hungover. That's not gonna happen. You might feel like you are, but

Kevin (1:09:17)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:09:20)

you're really not at all. And you're not making gains.

No matter how much you're doing.

Kevin (1:09:24)

Yeah, my question is is how

much if you think you're killing it now, how much better could it be? Is the thought.

Chennelle Miller (1:09:28)

That's right. That's right.

Kevin (1:09:31)

yeah. Well, what's what would you say? This can be completely off topic, not sobriety related. What did you learn this week? What's a nugget?

Chennelle Miller (1:09:39)

Well, I'll be a little vulnerable here, Kevin,

Kevin (1:09:42)

Okay.

Chennelle Miller (1:09:42)

and I will say that

I before getting on this with you, I came from the foot doctor and because I have this pain in my right pinky, like right below where like right in that bone on the edge of your foot.

Kevin (1:09:58)

Mm-hmm.

Chennelle Miller (1:09:59)

And it's always been there, but it's just getting really bad now. I was like, all right, finally, I'm just gonna go. I know it's gonna take me like fifteen minutes to see the doctor and be done.

Well anyway, what I learned was that in your like your callus or your skin, which is callus is, but like you can get a sweat pour clogged. And it just it just becomes worse and worse and worse if you don't do something to calm it down or clean it out. So sorry, I should have trigger warned this this is going to be

Related to the body or something for people who is not comfortable with this, but I learned that that like that's a thing. I didn't realize that you could clog your sweat pores and have it be so painful that it's affecting how you can put pressure on your foot. It had it it starts with a K, and so I didn't learn enough clearly.

I know. I can just Google it right now. It starts with a K. It's

Kevin (1:11:04)

let's see.

Chennelle Miller (1:11:05)

like it's it's like clogged sweat pores and it starts with a K. but yeah, what does it

Kevin (1:11:11)

Wow, this is

Chennelle Miller (1:11:14)

turn up?

Kevin (1:11:15)

poro keratoma.

Chennelle Miller (1:11:17)

Yes, that's it.

Kevin (1:11:19)

It's funny, I said

clogged sweat and then it finished it gland on bottom of foot.

Chennelle Miller (1:11:25)

There you go. I had no idea. So yes, like that's a big learning thing for me. I'm like, okay, great. I'm gonna, that's that's it.

Kevin (1:11:33)

Feels like

walking on a tiny pebble or sharp stone. oof.

Chennelle Miller (1:11:36)

That's it, totally. Imagine running on that and clipping into

your bike pedals every day. Like it's it's a real pain, literally. and I've been dealing with it for so long and I was finally like, I gotta just go and do this. But I didn't go because it was just it's like another doctor's appointment and you know, who wants to do that? Like I can still work out, but then it became

It's really painful and it's gonna affect how I it's gonna affect how your other joints move, for those who don't know. Like if your your body will compensate for it in some way. so I don't want that to happen. That's really what it came down to.

Kevin (1:12:12)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:12:13)

Yeah, I'm all fixed now. It's gonna be great.

Kevin (1:12:15)

Well,

but yeah, I mean, now, hey, how long how long did you wait to do that? It sounded like a while.

Chennelle Miller (1:12:21)

Well too long. I mean honestly like

Probably I mean, gosh. That's also a learning thing. Like it can stay there forever. What seems like forever. Like legit.

Kevin (1:12:31)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:12:32)

I mean, at different phases it would be more painful, but

I don't remember a time where I did not have that pain. It's so strange. And we'll see if it lasts or not, like if I did permanently fix

Kevin (1:12:42)

Yeah, well. Yeah, hop hopefully.

Chennelle Miller (1:12:45)

it. Podcast episode number two for me. Just bring me on back. I'll talk about it. I'll give you the update.

Kevin (1:12:51)

Yeah, foot proper foot care.

yeah, well at least now you know. If it

Chennelle Miller (1:12:55)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:12:55)

comes up again, like, okay, let's get that checked.

Chennelle Miller (1:12:58)

Now you

do and everybody else who listens to this. So

Kevin (1:13:02)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:13:02)

if they stay to the end.

Kevin (1:13:04)

Yes. I I I I my nuggets I I got I I got nothing. here,

Chennelle Miller (1:13:11)

What?

Kevin (1:13:12)

here, I'll give my I don't think I shared this last week. My sorry, I probably shouldn't have done that sound because that sounds like so I have my drink here that I you know, my my quick go to that I just saw on Instagram and I'm like okay, I gotta get the is it's basically vanilla protein.

drink. So Fairlife. I'm I'm la since you know we're sharing stuff I'm lactose intolerant. So

Chennelle Miller (1:13:35)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:13:38)

Fairlife is nice, lactose free, gluten free, all that.

Chennelle Miller (1:13:39)

Yes. Mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:13:42)

but this guy got I saw him pouring this Fairlife protein shake pre made thing into his whatever with he used a

A root beer flavored energy drink, which I have, but I just got a Zevia ginger root beer, which is like what I like. so this is

Chennelle Miller (1:13:59)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:14:00)

a vanilla protein shake with root beer. It's basically a root beer shake. Root beer float. it's delicious and it's quick. It's alright,

Chennelle Miller (1:14:07)

Mm-hmm. I was gonna ask you.

Kevin (1:14:12)

you know, I don't have it every I'm not I haven't drink it every day, but it's like in between calls and stuff. I'm able to just

Chennelle Miller (1:14:17)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (1:14:18)

you just

pour it, you know, together and you can add an energy Ruper energy drink or not, but yeah, it's two that's like two hundred and fifty calories with forty two grams of protein. Jolt.

Chennelle Miller (1:14:29)

Look, Coke float

Dude, seriously, Coke float this energy drink right here.

Kevin (1:14:37)

Jolt.

Chennelle Miller (1:14:39)

It's so good. They do have a root beer one too, by the way.

Kevin (1:14:41)

I didn't reali I I

didn't realize like that takes me back. I didn't r I didn't read

Chennelle Miller (1:14:45)

I know, it does. And

Kevin (1:14:47)

I didn't realize Jolt was back.

Chennelle Miller (1:14:49)

It's back. You should check it out, seriously. Amazon. It's

Kevin (1:14:52)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:14:53)

so good. Then the root beer one is good too. Yep.

Kevin (1:14:56)

Yeah, or my

wife doesn't like root beer, so I I sent this to my daughter and her and my daughter was just like, Well you could put Diet Coke in it. Coke float. There you go.

Chennelle Miller (1:15:04)

You could see. If you need that that extra

Kevin (1:15:07)

Yeah.

Chennelle Miller (1:15:07)

I think it's like two it I don't know if that one's two hundred millimeter. It might be one sixty. But yeah.

Kevin (1:15:12)

Yeah.

So my my nugget is, you know, you can still enjoy s things and still be, you know, get your protein intake in or whatever. just get creative.

Chennelle Miller (1:15:21)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kevin (1:15:25)

no, but well, thank you, Chanel, for

Chennelle Miller (1:15:27)

Yeah.

Kevin (1:15:29)

joining us today and sharing. And and thank you all for listening to another episode of the Reframe Mobile Podcast brought to you by the Reframe App.

Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. And I want to thank you again for listening. Be sure to come back for another episode. Have a great day. Awesome. Thanks.

Chennelle Miller (1:16:01)

Thank you.