EnneagramU
Unlock your true you! Dive into the Enneagram with Damon & Kelly. Personalities, relationships, work - it's all here, every Wednesday. #EnneagramU #WorkplaceDynamics #EmotionalHealth
EnneagramU
Diving into the Enneagram: Learn more about you
Are you ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery and unveil the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram?
Listen in as Damon and Kelly share how our Enneagram numbers influence our reactions and behaviors. By embracing the unique strengths of our personalities and refusing to condemn ourselves, we can find a space of acceptance.
To help you get started on your Enneagram journey, they share valuable resources like The Enneagram Institute's website and the book The Wisdom of the Enneagram. Don't miss this opportunity to unlock the mysteries of human personality and learn more about yourself!
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Then, all of a sudden, you find your number. Maybe you take a test or you talk to someone or you hear it. And I was so mad when I found my number. I mean I almost ran off the road.
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say tell us about your journey with the Enneagram, because you know, for me I was like, oh, tell me, tell me more about this. And you were like get that thing away from me.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Enneagram You, damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram You. Hey, everyone, welcome to Enneagram You. I'm Damon, and I'm here with my dear friend Kelly. Kelly, we're going to start every podcast with a question, and the question is how you feeling today?
Speaker 2:Okay, i love that question. You know, damon, i love feelings Oh no.
Speaker 2:So I can't wait to also ask you how you're feeling. So be thinking about that as I'm giving my answer, because I know that may be a little challenging for you. It is, but I will say today I'm feeling a couple ways. First, i'm tired, okay, just yeah today, not having like a lot of energy that I normally have, but I'm also super excited. So being able to start this podcast with you is super exciting to me. I am excited about the different things that we'll cover with this amazing tool for self-knowledge and just the conversations that we'll be able to have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great, wow. Well, for you being, you know, feeling kind of like, okay, you're pretty, you're pretty jazzed.
Speaker 2:Well, hey, this is the eight, holding a little bit of tired in the body, but we're going to drag my body through with the excitement, okay.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what an eight is, but whatever that I do, but I mean, you know, are you going to ask me how I'm feeling?
Speaker 2:Well, I thought you were redirecting, so.
Speaker 1:I was holding that space for a moment. I was trying to get out of it.
Speaker 2:But yes, Damon, how are you feeling today? I'm feeling pretty good. This is a fun day.
Speaker 1:This is going to be a fun podcast. I know that I am the student here regarding the Enneagram and I know that you have a lot of experience with the Enneagram, so I can't wait to learn some things, and I've been pretty skeptical about the Enneagram you know, through the years, a few years, yeah, a little skeptical. But I'm feeling good. considering all of that, there's no way I should be setting in this seat.
Speaker 2:Well, and that brings up another emotion, just a surprise, because who would have thought years ago, damon, when we first had conversations about the Enneagram, that you would actually be wanting to be a part of an Enneagram podcast?
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you say want? Oh, yes, i do, i do want to be a part of it. Yeah, we go back a while on this where you had already been into the Enneagram for a while, and then I started hearing you talk about it And I'm like what is that? And then, when I heard it, i'm like don't put me in a box, i don't want a number.
Speaker 2:Back off. Yeah, oh yeah. Yes, i think what your initial conversation was like tell me about the Enneagram. I was like yeah, it's these. you know, it's a self knowledge tool to just help us know about ourselves a little bit more, based on nine numbers, and I think your original comment was well, i'm a 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sounds like something I would have said, is there a 10 in the numbers of the Enneagram? No, no 10.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:I guess I missed that one.
Speaker 2:Well, i think you were just in your overachieving self, but also not really knowing a lot about it. You were just doing the best that you could, yeah.
Speaker 1:In your resistance. There is a lot to know about the Enneagram. Oh my gosh, It isn't really complicated, but it is complicated. There's just there's a lot of details and opinions and it's been around a while. So, tell us what the Enneagram is? I mean, I'm sure there are lots of definitions maybe or but give us your best shot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, My elevator speech so to speak.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, the Enneagram is a tool for self knowledge And it's based on nine different personality types, each one as a reflection in the world. And you know, even coming from a Christian background, which some people have, that perspective of a Christian background based on nine characteristics of God, not that God's limited to nine, but that nine characteristics that we can reflect God into our world. And I love how the Enneagram looks at the strengths of our personality. It looks at the challenges of our personality, but then also goes a little bit deeper and looks at the motivations of why we do what we do, which I think that's what holds it in its own unique spot. You know, we have all these personality assessments out there And this one really looks at the nuances of what's our motivations, What's the underlying reasons that we do what we do So.
Speaker 1:It's not just another personality test.
Speaker 2:No no, The other ones are really good. You know, I was a counselor for 18 years and loved the personality assessments that are out there And there are so many varied personality assessments. But in 2010, when I was introduced to the Enneagram, it was like all those just needed to go back in the closet And the Enneagram was the one that I felt like was the most holistic approach to just knowing about ourselves.
Speaker 1:I think that's something that I need to make clear, if I haven't already. You are a counselor and you've been doing it for a while. You also have a doctorate, and I do not, and so Kelly is the expert here and I'm the student, and that's how we're going to kind of approach this podcast And it'll be fun doing that, But wow, that was a really great description of what it is And you said 2010,. What was the pivotal moment? Like is there a moment or experience that led you to lean into the Enneagram?
Speaker 2:more than the others, yeah, i think, just my own experience with it. So I was at a retreat in Chicago with the Transforming Center And one of the retreats focus was on the spiritual discipline of self knowledge And so they brought in a couple of speakers that just introduced us to an appetizer of the Enneagram. And again, because I was aware of so many other personality assessments, i was interested, but it wasn't something that I was really odd by, just, you know, thinking about it. But after sitting and hearing about the different numbers and just really resonating with my number, just felt like experientially for me it got me, you know, and I think a lot of times for people when they engage with the Enneagram it's like, oh yeah, like this is me on my best day and crap, this is me on my worst day.
Speaker 1:That was not my experience. It was run. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:No, you're right about that actually. Yeah, You're right.
Speaker 1:So your number is. What number are you?
Speaker 2:I am number eight.
Speaker 1:Uh-oh, is that a good thing or a bad thing? It is. I just said I was because I didn't know why. Oh, you know why I love all the eights out there. Love them all.
Speaker 2:Well, the eight has been called the powerful person, the challenger. But let me go back in the story just a moment, if it's OK. when I was first introduced to the Enneagram, i thought that I was a two, which is the loving person, or the helpful person.
Speaker 1:OK, I mean. so there must be some discovery along the way that says So the number really didn't change. But you just you kind of like wait, i maybe didn't analyze it correctly for myself.
Speaker 2:Well, and this is what I say to people, really the Enneagram is a journey, and so it's not about necessarily taking a test and saying, ok, this is my number and we're locked in. It's more about just that journey of self-discovery, self-awareness, and so for me, i think I was really conditioned as a girl growing up in the 70s and 80s to be a helper and not so much to be a leader, especially in the faith tradition that I was brought up in, girls could be helpers but not necessarily leaders, gotcha. So that really created a barrier for me, i think, in just how I saw myself.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:And so I had a conversation with a good friend of mine who is very learned in the Enneagram And sometimes we need help with our blind spots. And so she said one evening I think you should set with the eight. And I remember probably having that dog tilt of your head like what. What did she say? Mm-hmm, yes, definitely Rope. And actually I kind of played it off later I thought she probably had too much wine to drink at dinner, like she does not know what she said. So anyway, texted my husband that night and just said Claire thinks I'm an eight. Didn't hear anything back room until the next morning. And then he texted back simply And my husband's a man of words, so when it was just this simple hmm, dot, dot dot.
Speaker 1:I know your husband, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like what is going on?
Speaker 1:So he evidently knew about the Enneagram. Yes, you guys have talked about this before.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, Well, and at that point I had been really a student of the Enneagram for probably five years OK, thinking I was a two. And again it was a space of just looking at where are the places in my life that I feel like I'm getting exhausted, where are the places that I feel like I'm really living out my true self. And you know was a helper, and not to say that only twos can be helpers, but it was really the underlying motivation of why I was helping. That's interesting.
Speaker 1:So there could be people out there who think they're a certain number. This happens. No one else is talking about this. By the way, this is breaking news on Enneagram U. There could be some people out there who think they're a certain number, but maybe because of their environment growing up or the lens they're looking through, or the lens they think other people are looking at them through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i say that right.
Speaker 1:They maybe think they're a different number than they really are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what I would say to that person is you haven't made a mistake, you haven't failed the Enneagram, you know you're just learning about yourself in that And that we need people along the way to let us know things that they might see about us that we don't necessarily see about ourselves because we've had these barriers.
Speaker 1:Well, that would make me ask is there a test you take, or do you ask someone else? Or do I come to Kelly and say hey, kelly, what's my number? We've been friends a long time. I mean, i tried that.
Speaker 2:I've been waiting for years, damon, to tell you, just you, embracing it was just like. this is the shock of the year.
Speaker 1:Embrace is such a strong word.
Speaker 2:Yes, i would say true Enneagram teachers would say you have to hear about the Enneagram. So if there is a way to do a conference or a workshop where you're hearing about all the different numbers, one of the things that we get to do at our company, veterans United, is different teams will ask me to come and share with the whole team just about the different numbers of the Enneagram, and so what true teachers, would purists would say is that you have to hear about it. It has to come from someone's mouth into your ears to resonate within your heart. Where you have that moment where you go ooh, that sounds like me, and not always in a ugh, but I think it's both. It's like that's me And also ugh, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 1:Right, and once you've learned about the Enneagram I think I hear about each number I kind of want to pick the number. I want to be, because I was like at arm's length for quite a while. So I was hearing you talk about the Enneagrams like I'm getting all the information here and I don't want to really dive in. Then all of a sudden you find your number. Maybe you take a test or you talk to someone or you hear it and you're. I was so mad when I found out my number. I mean I almost ran off the road.
Speaker 2:Well, i was going to say tell us about your journey with the Enneagram, because you know, for me I was like, oh, tell me, tell me more about this. And you were like get that thing away from me. Hey guys, before we continue with our discussion, we'd like to thank you for joining us and invite you to tune into episode two. We're going to be looking at why is it even important to look at personality assessments, and we're going to be talking about the Johari window.
Speaker 1:So we look forward to seeing you then It can feel like it's limiting you. You know, if you don't understand the Enneagram completely, you can think, oh, it's limiting me, i can't grow, i can't change, i'm stuck in this certain number. So I want to pick the number that I want to be and just be that number. And then when you start hearing teaching on it and realize, oh, no matter what I do, look, i've taken a few tests now and I can't beat it. You've tried, i've tried this so hard. I'm going to lie all the way through this test, top to bottom, and every single time I'm a nine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wherever you go, you'll find yourself, my friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when I heard I was a nine, which is a great number, but I was like hoping for something more grandiose. I don't even know what that means in the Enneagram, because they all are, but you know I was thinking an eight, oh, eights, are all the strong leaders. They're the outgoing take that hill kind of people. That's what I want. That's not me. I've got a little of that, but not primarily, Or maybe a three. Threes are really hard workers. I want that. I've got a little of that but I don't have.
Speaker 1:And I think that's hard for nines. Anyway, from what I've gleaned that nines can be a little bit of everything. So it's a little bit difficult to figure out. Oh, that's where.
Speaker 2:I am, yeah, nines. Take on the variations of all the other numbers, again with that motivation for peace. So, if peace requires me to be productive, i'll be productive. If peace requires me to be creative, i'll be creative, and so that nuance of taking on the variation of the numbers can be the beautiful gift that nines bring to the world, because you can access all the other numbers.
Speaker 1:Well, i'll sure try, no pressure, you just have to be all of them.
Speaker 2:Well, and you think about your story. so you were actually hearing about it as well. You'd just heard about it through a workshop, but you were also driving down the road when things just collided. They did Not literally, but it could have been.
Speaker 1:I was trying to run my phone or whatever I was listening to, and I kept trying to. I need to back that up. I need to back that up and listen to that again, And I was just angry the whole time. And then I find out later one of the most angry numbers is nine. Yes, I'm like oh, not even my anger can be off the number.
Speaker 2:My anger is proving the point that I don't want it to prove.
Speaker 1:It did exactly, And when we discover our numbers, there's just all kinds of reaction to it And sometimes it's funny. I have a friend who I don't know exactly how he how he was learning about the Enneagram Oh, i'm just gonna ask for you know, forgiveness. All right, right now for all the numbers out there, but he's a four And he walked into my office and just right into the doorway and just stood there and said I am not self-absorbed. And then he walked out.
Speaker 2:I needed to clear this right here and right now, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, i don't even know what that means really, but anyway, that was funny.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think with all the numbers, because we've lived in that space, whether we've known about the Enneagram or not, like we just have lived in our space of who we are, and so with that, i think there's kind of the grass is always greener, like. So surely if I was a seven, people just love me, full of joy. Man is an eight. How do people experience me Like, do they see me coming? They're like take cover.
Speaker 1:Well, kelly, there is something I have to share. Notice, there's no one else around right now. You're a great, healthy eight is what I would say.
Speaker 2:And hey, you as well being able to name your anger Because you're right, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:I've come a long way.
Speaker 2:Yes, but the fact that you know each number with the, the strengths of the number, which sometimes that can be challenging to embrace, the strengths of what we bring into the world versus those negative sides of our personality, and I say we hold the Enneagram with both grace and refusal to condemn ourselves for who we are.
Speaker 1:Right, because we might not embrace the number that we fall under immediately. It may take a little bit of time, yeah.
Speaker 2:It is a journey. Let it be a journey of just discovering yourself And and also understanding our motivations are really difficult because we live in a world where we've been conditioned. you know, i'll be loved if I do this or that.
Speaker 1:So if you discover you or two, and then you discover oh no, i'm an eight, were you a little happier that you were an eight than a two, be careful.
Speaker 2:It became a space of acceptance.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Really, and things started to make a little bit more sense.
Speaker 1:Was there anything that? oh no, i'm an eight. Was there any like panic? A little bit Okay Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, whereas I think for me I was very conditioned to be a two, which actually created, i think, a space to be a healthier eight, you know, just having to think through helping and loving others, think before you speak, having that sense of putting others before yourself, that was helpful, i think, to me as an eight. But then also the dark side of the eight, that, yeah, if things got me mad like, watch out, i am a bullet.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can ask my family like really.
Speaker 2:Even that experience of having that conversation with a friend of ours came after a time where we were on vacation. We were in England, we were at Westminster Abbey And the four of us as a family were on that vacation And my daughter and I got separated from my son and husband And I didn't know my son and husband actually found each other. I thought my son was lost in Westminster Abbey.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so, as a protective mom not being able to find my son that you know concern just kept getting stronger and stronger. So 45 minutes looking for my husband and son in Westminster Abbey and this was not a time that we had our cell phone, you know now it would have been $10 to pay the international fee. At the time we were like we're not paying the huge international fee. If I would have known we would have had this experience, it would have been priceless. But as the story went, i go to the security guard at Westminster Abbey and I say I've been disconnected from my son. We can't find my son. So she's getting information about what's he wearing. I'm like, oh my gosh, i've never had to like put a lost child report out there for my son.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile, as I'm sharing with her the details about what my son is wearing, i look beyond her and see my husband and son out in the courtyard. They had left the building and were just kind of out in the front of Westminster Abbey. I became a very unhealthy eight in that moment and charged out of Westminster Abbey like a bat out of hell. And my husband is six foot four, i'm five two with my heels on. I come out and he's feeling the wave of my intensity And he didn't totally fall back, but he was like, oh yeah, she's coming, and he wasn't quite sure why.
Speaker 1:But anyway, because what is your husband's number?
Speaker 2:He is a seven and your son. And he is a seven.
Speaker 1:See, this is now.
Speaker 2:it's all coming together, it's all making sense And my sweet daughter, who's a nine, was just trying to keep peace.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be okay.
Speaker 2:But yeah, for both of them they were like Hey, no, we got through, we were looking at the gift shop. You know, just out here looking around, waiting around, and I'm like you left the building.
Speaker 1:So yeah it made sense. I mean, this is just the beginning. There are so many stories, there are so many things we could chat about, but we probably need to give people some idea of where they can start, like with the Enneagram and just getting some basic introduction information Are there any resources, books, people. Yeah, you know, i don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Well, definitely a great entry point is theineagraminstitutecom is a great website that has both assessments that you can take. There's lots of information that you can read. Also, the guys that created this website, Rizzo and Hudson, have written the book The Wisdom of the Enneagram, which is a great resource, But this website you can also sign up for a daily Ennea thought.
Speaker 1:A what Okay, you mean you haven't signed up for that yet.
Speaker 2:Damon, I thought that that would be. Where's my phone Theineagram email that you would sign up for. You really should do this.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And you have to read them. You can't just sign up and trash them every day.
Speaker 1:I've back up. You just lost me. Like there is an email that goes out and it's called Ennea thought.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, it kind of takes a little too far.
Speaker 1:Enneagram, you today's Ennea thought from Enneagram you, yeah, it's kind of like Jack Handy from Saturday Night Live. Well, we're going to do that. Yes, we'll find that, yes.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you can sign up for this Ennea thought. Basically, you can put in two numbers And so, if you are setting with, am I a two, am I an eight, am I a nine? But I'm not quite sure what my wings might be, which we'll talk more about that in the episodes to come, but you can put in two numbers and you get daily emails that just give you information about those two numbers.
Speaker 2:So that's another great space to just start just getting some information, i think. Two, you can take the assessments, and those are a great entry point, like if we think about a zero depth entry swimming pool. Taking an assessment online, you get kind of ankle deep into it. Do not stop there, because a lot of times they can be like you, damon, i'm going to take the test and this is who I want to be, so by golly, i'm going to outsmart the assessments.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty tough assessment to outsmart, I think. I mean once, you know all the numbers and then, yeah, you probably can. Yeah, once you understand it all you can go back and say see, Yeah, i told you. I learned through the book The Road Back to You. Yes, it was a very good entry point. It's basic stuff. I think I was able to understand it. So that means it was basic stuff, and yeah it was really helpful Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's a powerful tool and Enneagram. It's just like it helps you relate to others. It helps you relate to yourself. That's what I'm discovering is like how to work with someone who has a certain number. It's just it's not like you're really putting them in a box or anything, but it is just knowing how they will react or how they communicate, or whatever it may be, is helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the illustrations that we use at VU is we imagine like the viewfinder and that each of us have our own lens that we look out into the world And what can tear us apart individually, as couples and families and friendships and teams, is to think that difference is wrong when it's just different. And so I think the Enneagram helps us to recognize oh yeah, different isn't wrong. They see the world through this lens, as this number. I see the world through this lens, right, and it really helps, i think, to make us individually healthier, healthier.
Speaker 1:You're borrowing from my vocabulary.
Speaker 2:But also as teams, and we see that even in our company, as more and more teams are getting to know this tool.
Speaker 1:It's a really powerful thing. I think that there are some negative sides to every number. We'll probably talk about that in the future. There are positive sides to every number. And then how do we get a little healthier in our own personality? so that our number is. You know, we're leveraging it to our advantage.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We have so many topics that we could chat about, but you know we're kind of coming to the end of our time, so I just want to say Kelly, this is number one. There's many more to come. We did it.
Speaker 2:We survived. the first one Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was easy. Yeah, you were all chill at the beginning. Yeah, just kind of a home day. Yeah, but thanks for joining us on Enneagram U And we will see you next time. Bye, kelly, bye.