EnneagramU
Unlock your true you! Dive into the Enneagram with Damon & Kelly. Personalities, relationships, work - it's all here, every Wednesday. #EnneagramU #WorkplaceDynamics #EmotionalHealth
EnneagramU
THE TWO
We share our own experiences with the Enneagram test and how it led us to explore the natural alignment between certain Enneagram numbers and different occupations. This discussion also highlights how some of us have to adapt to environments that do not completely resonate with our natural numbers.
Also, get ready to learn about the 'Two' type individuals - the helpers. Often caught in an imbalance of giving more to receive love and acceptance, these individuals need special understanding and support. We offer insights on how to help them establish boundaries, appreciate their efforts and affirm their needs.
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Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey, everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon. I'm here with my friend Kelly. Hi, kelly.
Speaker 2:Hey Damon, how are you?
Speaker 1:How are you doing? Pretty well today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought we'd start with how you're feeling. Oh, you turned the tables on me. I did.
Speaker 1:Well, we got to just mix it up a little bit I wasn't even expecting that. I've never expected to go first in this category. Now, what do I do? Okay, I'll tell you how I'm feeling. Well, we record this toward the end of the day and it seems like by the end of the day, maybe how I started feeling is not how I ended up feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I remember you saying there are just a few feelings we have every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just 400 or so.
Speaker 1:Well, today I've had them all Feeling 399. I think we've used some negative, more negative feelings, like I think I've said, frustrated and think, but I just feel good today we haven't recorded in a while. People don't really know our pace for when we record these things.
Speaker 2:So it's fun to be back so.
Speaker 1:I think it's just. I feel good, Sun is out and I love that. I love good weather.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. How are you feeling? Well, I was thinking about on my way here. I feel valued. What a good word.
Speaker 1:I know Well, I was just thinking about it.
Speaker 2:I was like, what is that feeling? I get to share the integrand with all these different teams around BU and today I get to share with our team.
Speaker 1:You did.
Speaker 2:And that was awesome, I mean not to say I was awesome in presenting but, like it was awesome just being able to use that as a tool where we're able to affirm each other and just to celebrate the giftedness that each person from our team brings, and I don't know, it was fun, and it was fun going around.
Speaker 1:Now I didn't know the numbers. You kind of everybody took a test. I took another test We'll talk about that in a little bit and because I think last episode I said I will break the integrand. This is my goal, but I didn't know everyone's numbers. Were you surprised when the tests came in? Because we've worked together for a little bit now, so we kind of know each other.
Speaker 2:Right? No, I was not surprised. I think it was just an affirmation for sure. And again, as you work with people, you get to know them and of course I look through that lens of the enneagram quite often. So, yeah, it was just fun to get to share it and just to celebrate each person that we have around the table In the work world.
Speaker 1:Are there certain numbers that every team needs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, there's certain numbers that tend to lend themselves to different occupations, right? So probably, as we'll talk about with the sixes, they are the ones that usually do more of the safety and security kind of roles their military, our firefighters, our police officers Today we're going to be talking about the two, so they are our helpers, and there's many occupations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and on our team we had a couple of twos.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have some amazing twos on our team. There are some companies that actually give the enneagram as an assessment as they're hiring people, because they'll want different numbers around the table. They don't want all of just one number For placement. For placement, which is a little tricky, because how do you know for sure?
Speaker 1:Well, I can tell you, you can tell you. Nothing's for sure, yeah, yeah, you can test and yeah, so I took the test again.
Speaker 2:Yes, and my number was.
Speaker 1:You haven't blown it up yet, but my number wasn't exactly the same. But I think I was well rested and I was ready to go on that test.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I had. I was like, okay, I'm going to do this test, I'm really going to think about everything and I think it ended up being the same number, but I definitely had stronger eight a stronger eight wing than I usually do. Nine was still in there, but eight came back as my primary number. But I also think it's like I was kind of thinking in my head lean away from the nine, it's going to be a little more assertive here, as I'm conquering.
Speaker 2:Well, you know you might have that eight wing, since you want to blow up the enneagram.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's some Blow it up in your own way.
Speaker 2:I need to be an eight to do that right. So, and you are, yeah, and so now I am, I'm an eight.
Speaker 1:Congratulations, no, yes as far as I know, you can't change your number, but that happens to be a wing and and I was thinking you know it's obviously I'll have one or An eight that'll be strong and I really didn't know when I was taking the test which one, which one, would come out.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm more.
Speaker 1:And and then my third number in this particular test, because they're all a little different, but was a five. Yeah, that surprised me but I have done some IT work in the past. Yes analysts work in the past. I'm like man. I bet I had to live in that, and that isn't completely natural for me right. But I had to live in that for a while.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. And you know, as we'll talk about with the nine's, they do take on attributes of all the other eight numbers, and so there's probably seasons where you find yourself a mixture of all or even, like you said, in the IT world, that was a lot of space in the five.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, I can kind of call on certain numbers a little bit, I guess.
Speaker 2:I don't, I'm still.
Speaker 1:I'm still working that all out. I don't know if this is getting better or worse everyone but today we're talking about yeah, too, we have some great twos on our team, so tell me a little bit about the two.
Speaker 2:Yes, so the two is the loving person. So they really are all about loving and serving others. For them, relationships are so important. They don't just want to be in relationship with us to just gather a lot of friends. They want to be in relationship because it's a privilege to get to know us and they just have the most thoughtful, caring Empathy than any other number out there. So they'll know that you have a need, probably before you even know you have it, and they'll maybe even meet that need before you even know that you'll have it.
Speaker 2:I have none of that.
Speaker 1:No, I mean that that is so true. The news that I know are those twos are those people that serve you. Yes and, and I was. I was just as I was talking to our twos on our team. I remember, when I had COVID, that one of those folks was one of the first people To reach out make sure I was all right and Ivan told them hey, you served me my first post, covid meal and keep left it at my doorstep.
Speaker 1:That was really special yeah so I really I felt cared for mm-hmm, oh, and they just find that such a privilege.
Speaker 2:So, you know, maybe for the rest of us were like, hey, we'll bring a meal, but for them they're like they live for those opportunities just to be able to step in and help, because they can really put their gifts and skills to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what roles do twos land in? Maybe?
Speaker 2:we can guess but like health care or anything in the health helping field Any way that they can help. Again, a lot of times counselors can be the two you could have been a two, yeah well, I was definitely conditioned to be the two. I lived in that space for a long time and it exhausted me.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:No, but just yeah, that space of helping they have an empathy. So any of the professions where empathy is a skill that's utilized, like teaching. I mean empathy is needed in so many different things. But, yeah, caring for people, having that, that compassion.
Speaker 1:Wow, is that needed? Because there's some of us that don't have a lot of that. So right, and we just kind of we have it, but we, I just don't always think of it first thing, mm-hmm right, we can all, yeah, utilize that skill of empathy, but for some of us it's a real stretch.
Speaker 2:And again, not that it's not something that we all need to grow in our empathy, but for twos, it's just natural. For them it is so life-giving to be able to have that empathy and they just have a radar around them that, like if you're having a bad day, they sense that and they're gonna come to you and say, hey, is everything okay? And they're not gonna just expect you or hope that you say fine, like they really want you to be able to say, yeah, I'm having a bad day because da, da da.
Speaker 1:So it feels a little exhausting if you were helping people all the time, mm-hmm all of us need help. Well, lots of people around you need help.
Speaker 2:Yes, and.
Speaker 1:I would say they probably. Yeah, there's no end. A little bit yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, for the twos, that's a great segue into, then, what they need to watch for. You know, as they move from the healthy to of being that loving helper in relationships with others, they can move to what's called the average part of the two, and that's when they are so much more comfortable Giving than receiving. But then, over time, we know their tanks gonna get empty and as one enneagram writer says, hell Heth no fury as an unappreciated to who has given and given and given, and they're just spent. And so for twos, they really need to have that balance point of giving to themselves as they give to others. You know pouring into them self-care, you know in just ways to pour in deposits, I say, to their life, so that they have some fuel in their tank to give to others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of like that put the oxygen mask on yourself before you put it on your child, because if they don't, then that average place can move into the unhealthy part of a two which is their besetting. Struggle is pride. Now, it's not pride like oh, look at me, you know I'm number one, but it's more of like, who am I if I'm not helping, or I need to be needed by you, or nobody can help you like I can, and so this codependency of needing to be needed.
Speaker 1:Do we ever have to tell it to? Hey, can you turn that off for just a second. I don't need your help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it can be a boundary. Now. It's probably gonna hurt their feelings, but there's a difference between hurting feelings and harming. I think if we allow twos just to keep Helping when they're in that unhealthy place, that is not gonna benefit Anybody. So being able to encourage boundaries for twos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a person that was in my life that I know is a two, and they would offer me, like things to eat all the time. Yes can I get you something, can I? Hey, I made this, can you? You know you want to eat this or that right.
Speaker 2:Here's your piece with your fork of Basically and no, is not an option, right and?
Speaker 1:I'm sitting there going well, maybe I'm trying to diet right now and I just want to say no thanks. But they're like oh, are you sure you know you don't want this like so sometimes I wonder if there isn't a little bit of a yeah, just a kind hey, thanks, I'm good for right now. But I mean, we've talked about that, could be maybe the harder side of things, but man that care when you need it, there, there for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you think about, like I think about the twos on our team that are just amazing and Loving and caring for us, and the thoughtfulness that they put into caring for others. You know, and it is such a gift because, especially those crisis times that we're going through, tues just step in and they provide what's needed and you don't even know that you need it but, they know and they just do it Seamlessly and with such love and joy and it really helps us so much.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the the thing for twos, just to remember, are being able to be assertive. You know that my thoughts and feelings are just as important as yours, and so it's that idea of you know kind of Mary and Martha that we hear about in the Bible. You know, mary was the one sitting at Jesus's feet, martha was the two in the story you know of, like she was the helper and she wanted Jesus to get on to Mary for not helping. And Jesus is like, hey, there's not the time for that right now, like there's plenty of things to do, but right now this is the most important. And so, for Tuesday, have those boundaries and just to be able to have some solitude and silence, to be able to have a space where they're connecting with God being poured into. You know, having boundaries on how many friends they're helping, how many friends are in their life, because they can just get burnt out and Spent out really, really quickly.
Speaker 1:I think maybe you said this or alluded to it Two's neat and you're talking about pouring into them. Do twos need To to be helped? And there are they hard to help? Because they're always helping. I mean, you probably just said that exact thing. But, yeah, no, it's a great Maybe they want it, but they're giving it, so I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you were just describing that unhealthy state for a two. So often, because it's so much more comfortable for them to give than receive, then they believe that what they're going to get in return of giving is to feel loved and accepted. So actually, in that unhealthy space, they're giving, even though they're not consciously aware of it. They're giving in order to get. So that's where that codependency comes in. So if they can see that, no, I need to have a balance of Giving and receiving. I need to let others have the blessing of giving to me as I have the blessing of giving to others, then it lessens the codependency of I'll be loved if I help you.
Speaker 1:That's really good. Mm-hmm, man, two sounds like a tiring thing to be. Well, if you're not a two, yeah, it can be tiring. Yeah, for me, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know for twos, you know how we can love and care for twos in our life is to be able to help them set boundaries.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things we have to watch for and again, this may not be a conscious decision, but we typically go to people that we know are gonna say yes for when we need somebody to do something, and so when we go to the two, we're gonna automatically expect them to say yes, but to be able to encourage them to say no, to be able to encourage them, when they do say no, to say thank you for setting that boundary, because that's really really difficult for them to set the boundary, and we want to hear yes, like just in our own Selfishness, you know, we want to hear yes to any request that we might have and so being able to encourage them With boundaries and assertiveness and also really appreciate them.
Speaker 2:You know, two's a lot of time, don't need the platform, like they don't want you to call them up and like give a big, you know hurrah for all that they do, but they love words of affirmation. They love those Appreciation cards, you know, thank you cards, or hey, I saw that you did that and I just want to say thank you for the gift that you're bringing into the world.
Speaker 1:That's really good. On a little bit of research I do before these conversations. There was a couple things for twos, and you just said it, that one of their needs Is to know they're wanted mm-hmm that that's a big need for a two. So if you have a two on your team and they're helping everyone else once in a while, try to stop and say, just say, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, and also being able just to say you bring a special part to the team with how you are helping and ask them is there anything I can do to help you? You know, now again they may push back, but to be able to say, hey, I know, as I'm learning about the two, as I'm learning about the helpers that you know I want to pour into you, as you also are pouring out to everybody else.
Speaker 1:Right, which kind of leads to the second thing that I learned, and that is that they believe that it's not okay for them to have Needs, right for them to be helped.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So we're gonna affirm them. Yes and say thank you for what you do in the special way that you do it. And oh, by the way, it's okay for me to help you to yes, that you're human, that you have needs.
Speaker 2:You know, again, I think, in that unhealthy place there is this unconscious belief that they can give 24 7 without getting anything in return. So there's like a denial of their own needs, or even feeling selfish, like if I have needs and I must be selfish, but to be able to say no, taking care of yourself is different than being selfish. Yeah, and having needs means you're human and that you can also be a blessing to someone by letting them help you and I would be Easy to take advantage of it too.
Speaker 1:Yes and it sounds like they would allow that mm-hmm and not even know that, yeah, suddenly they may not know yeah, they're like I'm serving all the time my life's blowing up. I don't know I'm helping everyone and things aren't getting better and I just keep helping and helping.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm getting better.
Speaker 1:Yes because you're getting destroyed by all this. Help, right. So that's very really cuz.
Speaker 2:You know, there again, as they're trying to fill like their love tank, will say that. You know it's kind of corny to think of it this way, but they're thinking, if I help you it's gonna fill me. But yet when does that stop? You know, how many people do I have to help before I'm filled up? Well, if you're looking at it that way, it's gonna be never-ending. So the more I help, the more I may be loved, but I than you're loving or serving everybody and you're just exhausted.
Speaker 1:So we mentioned earlier that maybe the occupations would be like nurse or counselor or people that are in this nurturing role in our society. You kind of went through this right, like your initial story is. I thought I was a two. Some of that was kind of conditional on my surroundings.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes and the people around me or whatever, and I think you should speak to that because it's interesting. We do say in the diagram that you can't change your number. Although I highly doubt that that's true. We do say your number is your number, but you can get your number maybe wrong if you're not paying attention.
Speaker 2:Sure, you know nature and nurture. It can be confusing and I think for me as a little girl when I found out that my mom and dad were gonna have a baby, I think in my little eight self. So my response when they told me that they were gonna have a baby was why do we need a baby? You have me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know the world is perfect right now.
Speaker 2:Why do we need to mess that up with somebody that's gonna come in and rock my world? Most kids would not say that Most kids would be like oh, I'm so excited a brother or a sister, and you were like nah.
Speaker 2:Hey, a little eight says uh-uh. No, this is, I think, what Clude my friend Clare in when she heard me tell the story, because she said a two would very much be like. I've been dreaming of someone to love and having a baby. And I was just like why? So, I think, for me, feeling like I was gonna lose my position in the family, I then morphed into this little helper Cause I remember having a conversation with my grandmother and she said your mom's gonna need help with this baby and you are gonna be a great helper. And I remember just feeling kind of the weight of that burden like, oh great, now I'm gonna have to help as I'm standing on a little chair helping her wash dishes before my sister came home from the hospital. And I remember getting up through the night when my mom would get up to feed my sister. And again, I don't know how many times that I did this, but I would get my mom water or I would set in color and just be company for my mom. And I remember her telling my grandmother Kelly is such an amazing helper. And so and I think in my little mind it was like okay, in order to still have a special place in this family. In order to still have some control, I have to help. And so that, as well as being a girl growing up when I did and the time I did, especially in my faith tradition where girls were not encouraged to be in leadership, so it was like, well, I can in a way lead by helping, and so that was my journey then, to be the two then going into the counseling field. And it was interesting.
Speaker 2:We did years ago the Myers-Briggs and then it had the Kiersey temperament analysis that was connected to it and with the Kiersey temperament it gave everybody different like titles, and so I think at the time we had six counselors on our staff. Five of the counselors they fit under Kiersey temperament counselor, so that was their title. I was the only one out of all six of us that my Kiersey temperament title was protector. I knew nothing about the Enneagram at that time but I was like, well, that makes sense, because just feeling like this sense of maybe my clients were like the underdogs and I needed to come help, come alongside them. But where I got exhausted so often was like again, how much help is enough help and how many clients are enough clients? So the more I help, the more I might feel loved or I might have a place, and when you see seven or eight or nine clients a day and do that five days a week and just wear yourself out.
Speaker 1:It seems like you approached. You're helping as an eight, though even though you. You thought you were a two, you were still just knowing you. You're a leader and you're just like well, we're just gonna accomplish this, then we're gonna help people.
Speaker 2:We'll go through the side door.
Speaker 1:Right, right, wow. That's an interesting and so does that happen to people a lot where they have an aha moment.
Speaker 2:I think so, and that's again the gift of the Enneagram, Like even those years that I thought that I was a two. It gave me language that I needed to be able as I had that conversation with my friend about being an eight to go okay, yeah, just because I had this time in that two space, what was motivating me was, from that eight space and then just to see to the beauty of a lot of redemption, of that, a lot of healing and also, as I've shared before too, I can't imagine maybe how unhealthy and dysfunctional I would have been if I didn't have my sister, you know, just to be able to share the world with her.
Speaker 1:So you would rule the world. Who knows, you would probably rule the world right now.
Speaker 2:Your sister probably derailed all of that.
Speaker 1:But you're saying, because of your sister you had to help and so there was some health in that and so that you weren't the center of the universe as an eight.
Speaker 2:Yes, I gotcha. Yeah, because before that I definitely was, as the only child, grandchild on both sides. I mean, you've heard me, everybody on my street were elderly. So I mean I, you ruled the block. Well, and if you can imagine, I had a little big wheel, do you remember?
Speaker 1:the big wheel? Yes, I never had one, but I lived in the country. It wasn't so good on gravel, but okay.
Speaker 2:So if you can picture this little eight, so I would pull out of the garage. We had a little decline and so the big wheel had this little thing that you could shift to turn. So my mom would say I would come out of that garage racing down the driveway and then shift that thing and turn it and then I'd just be off to go visit my people. You were going to help.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, you were misguided the whole time, but you're going like an eight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, going like an eight. So Wow. Which is a great point too in the fact that four, twos and eights have a arrow to each other. So for the twos being able to take on that assertiveness of the eight is really helpful, and for the eight taking on the compassion of the two is really helpful. So those make good duos.
Speaker 1:So sometime we'll talk about that, how some numbers are connected through an arrow on the diagram not to get confused with triads and gut and heart and other terminology. And I asked you that at another time, like is there a term for the arrow wings is another term, which this is not.
Speaker 2:Right, this is not yeah.
Speaker 1:So, as far as we know, there's no real term for these connecting lines. Right other than arrows, arrows we should come up with a term for this. I mean, we might as well. Yes, we shall. Yes, I don't know what it is yet, but we will. And since I'm a nine, I will tap into my four and we'll figure it out It'll be creative, Get creative and I'll.
Speaker 2:This may be the way you blow it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I rock as you enhance it, I could enhance.
Speaker 2:So you thought it was gonna be just completely annihilating it, but you may be adding value.
Speaker 1:Maybe wow, it changed. We changed the enneagram for the better.
Speaker 2:For the better.
Speaker 1:No, okay, that's not as fun, well, but yeah, we'll have to give those a name. Yeah, well, this has been a great conversation about twos. If you're listening and you're a two, what I hope is you feel helped. Yes.
Speaker 2:We love you twos and we want you to know that you bring so much into the world, but also we want to be just allowed space to also pour into you. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, if you wanna hear some other things about the enneagram, we have other episodes on Spotify and on Apple and also on our website at vufatecom. So, kelly, thanks so much for all your insight today.
Speaker 2:It's been fun.
Speaker 1:I'll see you next time. Bye, kelly, bye. What you do. Tell me what you do With all of your heart, with all of your soul, with all of your heart.