EnneagramU
Unlock your true you! Dive into the Enneagram with Damon & Kelly. Personalities, relationships, work - it's all here, every Wednesday. #EnneagramU #WorkplaceDynamics #EmotionalHealth
EnneagramU
THE FIVE
My associate, Kelly, and I take a humorous dive into the world of Enneagram, focusing specifically on type five. We discuss everything from my comical attempts to "become" a five to the more serious aspects of this personality type.
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Hello everyone and welcome to Enneagram you. My name is Damon and I am here with my associate, kelly Greetings. Kelly Greetings to you, damon. How art thou, do you like my spectacles?
Speaker 2:Yes, I am just enjoying seeing you know, just this transformation of you. What trying to be a five, I'm guessing, since we're talking about a five today. I mean, last week it was the guitar and any gram for Damon, and today it's you and these glasses that seem a few years old.
Speaker 1:I have found myself. I've found myself. I definitely am a. Five these glasses. I can't see anything. Welcome to Enneagram you, damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram you.
Speaker 1:But you look yeah, you look intelligent I look that's a word, that's a word for it, that's, but I'm gonna wear them today because I really do think I'm a five. Have been researching this deeply because that's what fives do? They research things.
Speaker 2:You're right, they do, they do research.
Speaker 1:I can't see you. I see my microphone and then I see just a blur.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, my face right now is just very jovial looking I have a few tears coming down from my eyes because, yeah, you look intelligent ish and yeah, well, let's start today with you know the question that I don't.
Speaker 1:I'm not exactly sure why we do this question every week, but it doesn't seem like it's logical to do this. But I'll ask you how your emotions are doing today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, damon. Oh yeah, it really is funny seeing you with those so two feelings, because now that we're here and doing this, you may have to up your prescription because you're wearing two. You've got your listeners, he's got his contacts and his glasses on. He's really really trying to be be a five to channel this inner five, so yeah. So one of my feelings is yeah, this is funny, so I feel lighthearted in your attempt to be any other number than the number you are, which is a nine.
Speaker 1:I disagree. Yes, the logic says the facts say I am a five. I've been studying it, yes.
Speaker 2:Well, of course, yeah studying is all there is Right. Yes, another feeling, though, with the feeling that because, as I was leaving the office to come here for the podcast, I was like what is my feeling today? And sure enough, a man on a scooter really helped me to connect with what I was feeling. I well, first let me ask you this what an inspiration.
Speaker 2:Yes, how do you feel when you're running late? Like, does that bother you? Are you kind of an ish time person? Or like if you say, hey, I'm gonna be here at this time, like do you have stress about getting some place on time?
Speaker 1:Is my wife in the car with me? No just you by yourself.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Um I, it depends on what. It depends on what I'm going to and um the importance of it. I suspect in my own mind what that is you know. I, I probably, I probably measure it that way like, oh, this particular person or meeting will be okay, and so then I don't sweat too much on it. But if it's a yeah. If it's something very serious, or yeah, then I can put you know. Increase the speed on the car for sure I would go around that scooter.
Speaker 2:I wish I could. Uh, this guy and you know, scooters bless them. Someone that we both love and care about has a scooter that we might see about town. This was not him, because I think if it would have been him he wouldn't have driven in the middle of the road, you know, middle of his lane. He would have probably moved over in the bike lanes that we have here in Columbia, which are really helpful, especially as the line of eight plus cars were behind him but actually speaking, he was probably a five and he knows the law.
Speaker 1:And the law is he's supposed to drive in the street, not the bike lane, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, because I am one that I think it was probably more, uh, environmental, uh, as I was growing up, like my parents, being on time was being 15 minutes early to places, and I appreciate that I like to get to a place and kind of settle in, have some wiggle room. But, man, if, if I'm running behind, I feel tense and stressed out. Um, now, if somebody's running late to see me I offer so much grace, it's like, oh yeah, no problem Cause that's why I'm always late, that's why I was always late to see you, because you're like oh, kelly's always got something else she could be.
Speaker 2:She's already working on something else.
Speaker 1:You don't want to be late for Kelly, because then you missed the opportunity.
Speaker 2:It's. The window has closed. No, yeah, I feel that way too.
Speaker 1:I mean, I do feel it, I think it is situational for me more so but, when I am late, I get. I get pretty like a little tense a little tense probably not as tense as you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Cause I can't control it you know as much as I wanted to go around him, there were cars coming in the other lane and, yes, filled, held back.
Speaker 1:Right, but I would probably sit do the equation for how quickly I could get there.
Speaker 2:Yes, Cause, you know, as a five you're just logically examining everything Right.
Speaker 1:Probably if you'd turned off on a street you could have gotten here faster, but I know I wish there was a street.
Speaker 2:I was thinking of all the different possibilities that.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you made it, yeah, and I'm glad you're feeling like this is fun.
Speaker 2:Yes, very much. This has helped change the tension to more lightheartedness, as we confirm once again, damon is a nine. Oh, okay, yes, All right.
Speaker 1:We'll keep talking about that. As we say, nine's represent all the other numbers.
Speaker 2:So you do have that, that five in you.
Speaker 1:Well, you know fives are. Well, you're going to tell us about the five. Why don't you want to start there? Well, you haven't told us your feeling. Well, I can't, I'm a five. I can't tell you the feelings. Actually, I was researching that.
Speaker 2:Yes, here's a line out of this Enneagram Thesaurus no, is this written by someone else, or is this one you're starting to write? Well, I know you're going to blow up the Enneagram. I am, I got to name those lines too.
Speaker 1:I haven't been able to do that yet this says fives are the most emotionally detached. And I thought that's me, that's immediately. I'm like I don't have to do the emotion thing anymore because I can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah as a five. Well, just because they may be more emotionally detached doesn't mean they don't have emotions.
Speaker 1:That's true. It actually, just to clarify it, said something about the experience of feeling and let it go pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:Or they think they do, because it really is all about what's in their head. So it's about those thoughts. So a great pathway for those as fives and for you as a nine that might identify it as a five at some points, is to ask yourself. What are you feeling and not just use the word feel, when you could actually say think. You know like I feel. The world is in jeopardy of.
Speaker 1:But wait, I just discovered something else as I continued to read here while you were talking because I can do multiple things at one time.
Speaker 2:My brain allows me to do that, being such a gifted five that you are.
Speaker 1:Feelings do not imprison them. So feelings in prison kind of go together.
Speaker 2:Well, denying feelings, definitely. Oh out chin in prison. Yeah, I'm locked up, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, let's see, I'm feeling happy and joyful and this has been really fun trying to do this and it is kind of fun as I'm looking at all the numbers and I do have those traits for a long time. So yes, joy, I got all that happy today. I'm just going to go with that. You know, for a long time I worked in the world of information technology, the good old IT world, and there is a lot of fives.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of fives in that occupation and yeah and so I had to live there and they'd put me on help desk though, because I was, but I could. I was good on the phone, I guess Maybe that was it.
Speaker 2:Good with customer connection.
Speaker 1:I was probably better at customer service than I was at the geeky side of things.
Speaker 2:Well, and that is the beautiful thing, with a nine and being able to connect to all the other numbers, very versatile. So you can, and I know firsthand too because of your help with IT, and I appreciate, like the times where I would say, david, my computer is not working and you give me just that invaluable Reboot. Yeah, reboot.
Speaker 1:Turn it off Kelly for five minutes and then turn it back on, and it usually works.
Speaker 2:But yeah, just that sense of being able to connect but also be personable, you know and how you connect.
Speaker 1:So Are fives personable.
Speaker 2:You know they can be for sure, but definitely when we think about the fives, their strengths are just being able to learn research, know how things work, see how things fit together. Man, they are the innovators and they are the researchers. They come up with answers that we need for so many things, and so the challenge spot, though, for the five is many of them, if they could just have the perfect day, it's just to be in their own mind in the world of research, being in, just looking at what their interests are. They're very much more energized by being alone, so more introverted.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're like that. Yes, reclusive is another word I use.
Speaker 2:I'm just waiting for you to pull out a pipe in your smoking jacket in your study. Not quite there, not quite there yes yes, well.
Speaker 1:Reading is a struggle, so I never was able to get over that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, but the fives, yeah, their strengths are just being able to be the wise person and learning and being able to evaluate how things work together, how things fit together. They are the ones, really, that I think. As we think about the great issues that we face in our world, we need the fives to be the thinkers, to give us solutions, to give us options, because they have insights that are just so incredibly helpful and important.
Speaker 1:We've mentioned this in previous podcasts, but I think fives tend to, or could have a tendency to, dig into information, so much so that it's pretty difficult for them to come up for error, especially in today's world where information is everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yes, we've called that, like I know many do, analysis paralysis. So it's getting so much information, but when is enough enough to actually step into action? Because for the fives, they really do want to research as much as they can, but especially with all the information at our fingertips, like for those of us who aren't fives, we know we can go down the Google path and find ourself lost in it for a long time. For fives it could be this never-ending road, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you talked to a lot of people about the Enneagram at VU. The fives are all over the place though, aren't they? Does every department kind of have a five?
Speaker 2:Typically we will have at least one or two on most teams, so I'm sure many more within departments. And the beautiful thing about fives is like within our teams they're gonna set and observe in meetings that we're in or team meetings, team dynamics, and they're just taking in the information and they have this ability, a lot like the nines too, to take in all the information people are sharing and think about how can we combine this or have synergy to make these different things work.
Speaker 1:Good job fives.
Speaker 2:Yes, for sure. Now, the challenge point for the five, though, in the team meeting is that they're probably not gonna speak up.
Speaker 1:And do you find that when you're sitting with a group of people you have to kind of pull the five up? Yes, Like, call them out a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, in any of the Enneagram trainings that I do, I'll have the team members take an assessment just to get an idea of the numbers in the room and then, as we're going through each number, so, for example, I'll say so, it looks like we've got two fives in the room and then I'll kind of point out who they are and then I'll just say, just wanting to listen for anything that may stand out for you, and if there are some things that resonate, I would love for you to be able to just share. So I give them a heads up, because fives hate to be put on the spot. Don't ask a five to give you information if they haven't had a chance to think it through. So in our team meetings with fives, you can see them just kind of taking it all in the animal, for the five is Al you know is an Al.
Speaker 1:Okay, Could have guessed that one.
Speaker 2:The wise Al yeah setting up on the branch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, put your specs back on Damon.
Speaker 2:Look at like the wise. Al yeah, I saw which we were on video right now.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's a reason we're not yes.
Speaker 2:But the five will set an observe. Now again, we don't want to put them on the spot in the meeting, but what we might say after the meeting to our five is I would love to get your input on this. Can you get back with me in a couple days just to give me your perspective? So what that does for the five is it gives them time to really do additional research if they want to, to continue to process their thoughts and feelings, but it also gives them a deadline, because if you don't give them that deadline, they're just going to keep researching until either you ask them about it or until the ship has sailed.
Speaker 1:Okay, so don't don't call them out right away for the answer Right and give them time to think about it, research it, but give them an end date.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So that they will stop researching, that's right Now.
Speaker 2:It's time to come up for air.
Speaker 1:Yes, and tell us what you know even if you don't know it all.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Okay. Well, in relationships too, you know, and I know I shared the example about the washing machine my friend who was married, to a five and he did all the research. But you know, in relationships that's important to have that blending, to have that deadline, so that we don't get just stuck in looking for all the options, because there's so many options out there and so we need to be able to say, okay, when are we actually going to step into action, and not get analysis paralysis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Excuse me some insight into my life a little bit so. I can use this as a nine, because nines are lazy, so I can just say I'm researching. Oh no, never ending research. I know I'm procrastinating.
Speaker 2:Really I'm procrastinating. Yes, we hear Damon say I'm researching, we know, aka. I'm just wanting to be lazy and take a break, exactly.
Speaker 1:So we said the animal, it's an owl. We've said jobs, we said IT, but any engineering job, any analyst job, anything that requires data, this would be a benefit. Probably. Yes, I think I mean really many more things.
Speaker 2:Any profession? I wonder too, just even like you know, historically scientists, the innovators in so many different fields, more than likely have been the fives. They can be professors, teachers, doctors, you know lots of different kinds of profession where they really just have space for the mind, Because that is really what energizes them to be able to research the things that they really care about and to be able to find out. And really they say, for a five, if they could just know everything, that would be heaven to a five. They just want to know everything, Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1:So they're very logical.
Speaker 2:Very logical.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And in my research it says sometimes they view others as irrational or maybe over-emotional. Oh, my goodness yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, fives really connect with fives, and yet, you know, for the rest of us, well, I think, for an eight, an eight, one of the arrows for an eight goes to the five. So we'll talk more about the arrows and the long, you know along the way, but for an eight, I have the opposite of analysis paralysis.
Speaker 1:Well, we won't go into that right now.
Speaker 2:I have a ready fire aim yeah. You know. So it's just like I may think about it for a minute, but I'm just going to do it. You know, I have a gut reaction.
Speaker 1:I kind of love that though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well and so we need to, as an eight, take some space to just have some analysis before we act. So I'm sure for the five, thinking about the eight, it's like, oh my gosh, they are just like a loose cannon.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, oh, wow. I can think of some people and relationships right now.
Speaker 2:Okay, never mind, I won't do that.
Speaker 1:So you've mentioned there are weaknesses, like I always think of mine. If it is, the nine is a sloth. What is the problem with the five Right?
Speaker 2:So the struggle for the five actually is greed Okay. Now it's not monetary greed, Not materialistic greed, it's not about money or possessions, but really it's a greed of information, of holding information. Now let me explain this a little bit more. I think this is important to recognize that one of the core struggles for the head triad which the five is a part of the head triad is just a fear, and so for the five it's a fear of not knowing something. So you know, we talk about being put on the spot in the meeting.
Speaker 2:There's a fear that they don't have the answer.
Speaker 1:So that's where they'll just like. I totally can understand that.
Speaker 2:They'll yeah, or the fear of okay. What if I do put this insight into the world and I don't know everything about it? I'll share an example with that. So I did my first Enneagram certification with an amazing five named Dr Jerry Wagner. He has established the Enneagram test called WEPS, w-e-p-s-s, and you can go to W-E-P-S-Scom and take his very extensive, very thorough Enneagram test.
Speaker 1:Is it free.
Speaker 2:No, but it's only $15.
Speaker 1:$15, which is worth every penny, but we are not a sponsor of WEPS.
Speaker 2:But I highly recommend it.
Speaker 1:Yet.
Speaker 2:But reach out to us at. So anyway, dr Wagner had developed this Enneagram test but, as he shared with us in our certification class, he set on that test for years, even though it was the most statistically sound Enneagram test out there, because he was afraid he had missed something or that he hadn't thoroughly researched enough. And so that's the fear and the greed that a five has. And so it makes me wonder like what brilliant fives in our world have really maybe uncovered things to problems or treatments for different illnesses, but there's that fear that is the barrier that's keeping them from putting them into the world.
Speaker 2:Because what if I've missed something? What if I don't know? What if I've found out to not know everything about it?
Speaker 1:So it's important if you're working in an environment with a five, if you're their manager or just appear, ask them their thoughts on things. Yes, kind of got to drag it out of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is where, really valuing their opinion and putting a deadline on it we want to hear from you. I want your thoughts on this. Let's follow up on this day.
Speaker 1:Do they say I don't know, like, I say that all the time yeah.
Speaker 2:They do, I don't know we may need to ask our five friends, because I think they would probably even avoid that. Okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know yeah, or talk their way out of the question maybe yeah.
Speaker 2:But very, very insightful.
Speaker 1:We're very much in our head. We're in our own head a lot. Yes, we're in our head Every question. We have to think deeply about it.
Speaker 2:That is the challenge for especially the five, six and seven is, and for the five being the wise person I've heard it said fives have to watch, not just being a head on a stick. Okay, it sounds awful.
Speaker 1:It does sound awful. It's just that some of it is all about their brain.
Speaker 2:Why do I need this body? Why do I need my emotions? All I need is my intellect.
Speaker 1:I did read that in my research. Okay, I did, and they can even potentially spend all their time on information and on just what they're thinking and learning and learning and learning and not do any physical activities.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:They just kind of dismiss that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why would that be important? And so a real path for growth for the five. So the arrows for the five go to the seven and the eight, and so we're going to talk in a couple of episodes that the seven is the joyful person that loves fun and adventure.
Speaker 1:Okay, the seven and the eight, yes, oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And so then the eight would be that sense of thinking it through but also acting and being able to take the positive attributes, now the arrows and how Dr Wagner taught us in our certification classes that you can take on the positives and the negatives of the numbers that you have your arrows to.
Speaker 2:And so a seven would have to watch, you know, not being maybe more stubborn or aggressive like an eight would be, or that it might be for the seven. You know sevens, as we'll talk about struggle with you know just that sense of needing sobriety, or they can have gluttony, so we could see, for the five it's kind of a gluttony of information, you know. But to grow in positive ways, the five really needs to have some kind of fun in their life, and this is where I think there's so many different attributes or opportunities for fun for fives, you know. So it doesn't have to be oh, I'm going to go out and learn this sport. It could be. Well, I'm going to do gaming. You know a lot of fives really find a lot of joy in gaming, so it's using both their intellect, it, with fun you know, and it connects them with other fives and they're having some of those social connections yeah.
Speaker 1:So not just using their head, using their hands, using their body you know, do something it could be building something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, playing a game, something active in the body, that's good yeah that stretch of you know exercise because all of us, whatever our numbers are, we all need exercise. Fives may kind of push that to the side because they just don't have time for it, because they're using their time for other things. But okay, what kind of exercise do I feel like? Is life giving?
Speaker 1:for me. Yeah, smart exercise, smart, ha, ha, ha, ha ha Peloton. Yeah, peloton, that would be, you're on there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a computer, or maybe fives could develop an exercise that's fun, that helps burn calories, where we don't actually have to do anything. I just want to put that out there for all fives to begin researching friends. Help yourself, help the world, figure this out for us, right yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, this is cool. I tried to be a five.
Speaker 2:I didn't quite make it today, but I mean you really gave it a great try. I mean bringing the props in.
Speaker 1:Damon.
Speaker 2:I know you're really putting effort in.
Speaker 1:I kind of my eyes are kind of bothering me right now. Ha ha, ha ha ha.
Speaker 2:Pretty funny when you have a headache later tonight, you know it's because yeah, I tried to be too smart.
Speaker 2:Ha ha ha ha. Your brain's going. What are you doing to me? Yeah, oh, wow, oh, yes, so well. Another thing I would say too with the five is not only doing things in the body but also having some connection to the heart and that sounds so corny, but really getting like the feeling words and being able to ask yourself on a daily basis what am I really feeling? Because that pathway from the head to the heart can really feel like miles. But being able to just start to learn, to reconnect, Because as children, fives were so interested in learning and asking questions. I mean, these were the kids and I know all kids ask questions but these were the kids that didn't stop asking questions, Didn't stop researching, didn't stop reading, and so a lot of times then that emotional part of them just doesn't get as stretched.
Speaker 2:And so does it mean that we can't engage in those emotions as an adult, because we're never too old to learn our feelings?
Speaker 1:Right as we know, Damon. Yeah, maybe make learning about feelings a research project.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, check into what's called emotional intelligence.
Speaker 1:That probably feels a little more inviting to the five.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tell me about this emotional intelligence, try and prove it wrong.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:And it is the one intelligence that we actually can grow in. So that could be an encouragement for the five.
Speaker 1:And that really is the point of all the numbers that's trying to get a little bit better, and that's true for the fives, as well, yes. And that's how you stretch. Kelly that's really great stuff and I really appreciate you coming in here and putting up with my shenanigans and my high intellect today.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, I'm inspired and encouraged. Yes, no, it's been fun, damon, thank you for this great conversation and the lightheartedness, and also the depth of the five that we got to experience.
Speaker 1:Fives are awesome. They are. We will see you next time on Inaugurm U. Bye Kelly, bye Damon.