Beyond Your Number
You’re not just a type — you’re a whole story. Beyond Your Number is a conversational Enneagram podcast where Damon & Kelly explore real-life growth through personality. From relationships to team dynamics, we help you go deeper than the label. New episodes every Wednesday. Formerly EnneagramU.
Beyond Your Number
THE SIX
Ever wondered why Enneagram type six, the Loyalist, seems so prevalent in Western society? Perhaps it's because our ancestors' experiences shaped our psychological templates more than we realize.
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Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. With your skeptic or an enthusiast, together, we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey, everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon and I'm here with my dear friend Kelly. Hello, kelly, hi Damon, how?
Speaker 2:are you? Today? I am doing great.
Speaker 1:What's your feeling?
Speaker 2:Okay, so my feeling today is I am feeling settled.
Speaker 1:Why do you? You come up with the best words. I'm like good, fine, I've lived with this list for many, many years no. Okay, what's settled me?
Speaker 2:Well, just even the last month has just been busy with a lot of different things, like we went on vacation, we had a retreat that we did in Chicago just a variety of different things. So this is the second week that I've been like on routine Back to normal. It's a good move and I really love that. I love being able to travel, do things spontaneously, go places. Am I old if I'm saying that it's so good to be home?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, you are have I arrived at that mature space.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I feel settled, that's okay.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, do you like routine?
Speaker 2:I do, but then I also like things to be shaken up.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, let's shake it up. Let's shake it up today.
Speaker 2:Well, before we get too much shaking going on, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1:Uh, today I'm feeling fatigued.
Speaker 2:That's my word.
Speaker 1:I tried to outdo you but I couldn't settle this better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't feel tired, I feel fatigued. So that's a yeah, it's a little bit more tired.
Speaker 1:Well, it is both. It's both Um. So I've started a new exercise program and I'm trying to get my sleep right and all of that. And when. When you're on the routine of sleeping you know going to bed at the same time, getting up at the same time, working out at the same time it's pretty good, your body adjusts. So when you miss it by a couple hours, then you're off and I'm that makes a big difference, yeah, and then I'm just worthless during the day. So today I'm feeling a little punchy.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it could be crazy.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, this could be really really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause today we're going to talk about the six. I'm not even going to try to be a six.
Speaker 2:You're not feeling up to it, you don't have the energy for it today.
Speaker 1:No, I think it takes a lot of energy to be a six, my wonderful six friends out there. Yes, leslie, hello, thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:I love you.
Speaker 1:We love you. Leslie, I think she's a six. Well, she said she was. I have not put her through my test that I'm working on to blow up the Enneagram yet. I'm not doing that at all.
Speaker 2:See, I'm much younger. If Damon ever hunts you down and gives you a test to take that he's come up with, just turn and run the other way. Wait, let's reanalyze you.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm going to start out with this something that I learned about the six. I think it's really, it was a big, it's a big point, and I have no idea why this is, but evidently sixes are the most common number in the Enneagram in Western society.
Speaker 2:You know, I have heard that Is that a true thing, you know, okay.
Speaker 1:So here's my theory.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't know if this is accurate or not, but you know, I think about people who, like, if we look back in generations, so like maybe our grandparents grew up during the depression time and so then they really were in that scarcity mindset or, you know, again, they lived through or participated in World War I, world War II, so I think then they have parented their children or really conditioned their children to be sixes. So I would be interested to see in this generation, you know, like our age. I don't know if that statistic is the same for, like our generation, but I would be people in their 20s, yes. So I would be like, oh, young, young heart, who think we're younger and then get exhausted because we yeah Off by a few decades there yeah.
Speaker 2:But anyway, back to that. So I just wonder if it was more of conditioned to be a six, because you think about like. I remember hearing my mom and dad share stories of actually doing like atomic bomb practice, like if, like really Like getting into their desk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've kind of my parents never mentioned that, okay.
Speaker 2:And I know my grandparents, like my grandpa, was in World War II and very much that idea of being prepared but also very loyal and proud to be an American. And so my dad who I don't think is a six, but he was very much like in high school if you graduated from high school or after you graduated from high school, that was time of Vietnam so he was going to surrender his draft.
Speaker 2:And so being able just to see that they were very much those loyal kids. So again, that's kind of my thought. So it'll be interesting to see.
Speaker 1:I think my dad was a six. I think he was. He had some other qualities that we may touch on about the six A little bit of a procrastinator, at times kind of passive, and I don't know we'll talk about fear in the six and all that, but just slower, very slow to make a decision. But I never really considered him like an analyst, like a five.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, yeah, cause the six as the you know wing of the five, but they're also in the head triad so very much can get caught up in that procrastination, with overthinking or thinking things through too much.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think we didn't grow up with tons of resources, so it was always a little bit of a scarcity mindset, like better save some things or don't spend, or maybe don't eat the entire bag of potato chips. It might be the last one. No, it wasn't quite like that, but cause I would eat all of it anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, and then in today's world, with the internet, with things in the last 15 years of that, growing up around us too, I know parents have been a little bit overwhelmed by all of the social media and all of that, so we're helicopter. Parents.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so will that generation of kids have B6s as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll be interesting to see.
Speaker 1:We're just making sixes constantly. Yes, mass production of six. Everything is scary.
Speaker 2:It does bring up the great point too of I know we talked about this in an earlier episode of nature versus nurture, and so I think to the generations that are coming up now, like from millennials on up, there's been a freedom to be more of who you are versus conditioned to be something else, and that's kind of why I think we have so many sixes.
Speaker 1:And maybe From the previous generation.
Speaker 2:From the previous generation.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah. So it says here in my little cheat book sixes can be mistaken for eights. Oh, that's a really con. Oh, we don't want to go there yet, let's back up. So what is just wait everybody, that is a confusing situation.
Speaker 2:Buckle up yeah.
Speaker 1:What are the strengths of a six?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Sixes are our loyal and faithful friends. They are very much drawn to do things to keep our world safe and secure, so that is their motivation. How do we keep things safe and secure? Physically, also emotionally. They like things to be, just to feel connected in a relationship. So these are the friends that you may have had from the time that you were little, you know, and they're the friends that continue to make that connection for a friendship. They're your friends that are prepared for danger, prepared for anything Matter of fact. I remember one time doing a workshop, so I had gotten different numbers for different people, and so I was speaking one time and I needed dental floss, sorry. I went into the lobby and I thought who was the six that was at the workshop?
Speaker 1:They did not have dental floss, they did.
Speaker 2:They have dental floss.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So sixes are just prepared for what they feel like you might need. So it's gonna be different Like not all sixes are gonna have dental floss, but they're gonna be prepared for the things that they feel like they can help you or that you might need. So, for example, my mom is a six and so I can tell you right now if you needed anything right now for some kind of if you had a headache or a stomach issue, in her purse she's going to have Tylenol, motrin, maybe some Tums, maybe some Benadryl, band-aids, kleenex. She's just prepared.
Speaker 1:So our six is pharmacists. I get it no, but yes.
Speaker 2:So they are again just our tried and true friends. They're gonna be there to just help us to stay safe, to keep us safe. They're also the ones that are on the lookout for danger, and so they're gonna be the ones that help us to prepare for where we need to go in case of a tornado, or what is the plan that we take if there's a fire in the building. Or they're also the ones that professionally go into those jobs for safety and security. They're the ones that go into our military and so, to be able to help keep our country safe, going into professions like firefighters, police officers.
Speaker 1:What do you think is the? I almost have the answer on this.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's an unofficially answer.
Speaker 1:Yes, what do you think is the number one occupation for a six? Good to guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say it would be like in the broad category it would be the safety and security, so probably military. I mean, I'm trying to think what would have the most amount.
Speaker 1:It's very close. School teachers.
Speaker 2:What yeah, I'm going to go on page. Is that from your little cheat sheet there, yeah, yep, okay, I can't find it now, but you know.
Speaker 1:Okay Said school teachers, but think about that.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense, actually, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:You're caring for, you know you're caring for everybody. And what do we all want for our kids? Number one thing we want them to be safe.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely Well, and I think about. We really have valued conscious discipline, which is a strategy that schools and now other organizations are utilizing to just teach children emotional regulation, and you know, one of the things that is the comment that conscious discipline helps us teach is to be able to say to the children my job as your parent, as your teacher, is to keep you safe and your job is to help me keep you safe.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You know, and so, yeah, I can see. That surprises me though that it's school teachers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll dig it up for you. It's in here somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that makes sense, preparing the next generation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's good, that's good. So we hit occupations. Every number has an animal.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:What would the animal be for a six? I have no idea.
Speaker 2:Okay, You're trying to figure it out. Well, this is a little tricky because this goes back to just looking at the fact that the sixes have two possibilities. So there is two distinct categories of a six.
Speaker 1:Oh, so like a three. Yes, like a three has two things, a six also has.
Speaker 2:But this is a little more nuanced, so the oh boy, Wait, let me get my glasses. Yes, prepare yourself, get your paper and pen.
Speaker 1:I'm going to put on my five hats.
Speaker 2:Yes, so one category of a six is the phobic six, so their animal would be a mouse. But it's kind of this idea that phobic sixes just have this kind of fear of worst case scenarios and they run. When they get afraid, they usually attach to someone who they see is stronger or that could help take care of them. It could be a person, it could also be an organization occupation system that just helps them to feel safe and secure. Okay, so for the other category it's called counterphobic sixes, and so the animal for the counterphobic is the rhino.
Speaker 1:That's not very much like a mouse.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right this is where they almost feel like some opposites. Okay, and so again, the counterphobic still has that underlying issue of fear, but instead of running when they're afraid, they charge against what they're afraid of. And so, for example, you know, these are the ones that can look like the unhealthy eight, so they're going to run against authority, they're going to maybe push things that they again underlying. It's because they're afraid, but they try to push in order to try to take control.
Speaker 1:Sounds like fight or flight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:And so some folks lean into the runway, which makes them the mouse animal yes, and the other person goes forward.
Speaker 2:Sounds like recklessly at times or maybe too much, maybe more emotionally yeah. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ok, that's complicated, but the core struggle for the six, because all of our numbers have core struggles. The core struggle for the six is fear, and so it's really what they're doing with the fear. Like you said, if they're in the survival state of their brain, two options are fight or flight. But to be able to process through their fear so that they can actually make some logical decisions with their fear For a six, so often, especially the phobic six, they can really fall into being hypervigilant or exhaust themselves and other planning and preparing for danger. And so when is enough preparation enough? Or when is it where that six is just constantly thinking about how to keep themselves safe and secure?
Speaker 1:OK, so you said the thing I was going to mention earlier, which is counterphobic six can be mistaken for an eight.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So you might be that and yeah, you never know, maybe you're just there all the time, you never know. And I've also heard that the six can go back and forth between those two. Do you disagree or agree with that you?
Speaker 2:know it probably depends on what the issue is that they go back and forth. I really haven't known anyone that I would say shifts back from counterphobic to phobic. I think the people that I know that are sixes pretty much stay in one of those two categories. You know, but which one do you like better? I'm just kidding, we love them all, yes, so you know, but just being able again to see the issue of fear and just to be able to process through the fear instead of reacting out of it which is so important.
Speaker 2:They say that really unhealthy counterphobic sixes tend to like put all of their fear on maybe a group or maybe an organization and then want to annihilate that group or organization. So an example and again, you know, when we use people from history we are totally guessing. But some writers believe that Hitler was a counterphobic six and really had this underlying fear. And if you read or do any kind of research on Hitler like he's an interesting psychological study, but that if he actually was a counterphobic six, that he put all of his fears and insecurities on the Jewish people and then just wanted to annihilate them, now that would be the extreme, extreme case of a counterphobic. But you kind of get that idea Personally what that's looked like with a counterphobic six that I worked with at one time because I think she had an insecurity of just and that fear of am I going to be able to keep my job or am I going to be accepted. You know, looking back, there was always kind of a bad guy in the office.
Speaker 1:Okay, an enemy, an enemy, yeah, mm-hmm, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, something else too that I would say, damon, as far as strengths of the six that they bring in, they've often been called the guardians of traditions, and so I think this is a really cool thing about the sixes that sixes will like carry on family traditions, like to keep the traditions going, and so I think that's just really super cool, because every family really needs a six to be able to think back, like I think of, like my grandparents who, like we, had so many really cool family traditions, and so you know, one of the things that my grandmother really loved to do, she loved to honor all of us for our birthdays, and so you really need that six to kind of help keep things going in the family.
Speaker 1:And that stems from the loyalty.
Speaker 2:Yes, the loyalty, Okay yeah, they're just really drawn to that Okay.
Speaker 1:I was almost gonna go the other way and say, is that fear of change?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, it probably could be too.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so for sixes to really have to look up again. What's motivating me, you know, is it the fear of change, or is it that, like, I really loved that and I want to carry that on you know, because then you think they could lose themselves and trying to, you know, live out what everybody else has already established.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they play such a huge role, from what you've said, in our world like military law enforcement and then, if we're right, teachers a lot of times are sixes, that's comforting to know really because you know their number. One thing is to keep people safe and protect them, and we need that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, you know. And another thing I would say for the sixes is being able. So often again, as we're kind of flipping back to some of the struggles for a six is that worst case scenario and sixes just automatically in their brain are going to go to worst case scenario. But what I like to encourage sixes is not to stay there but to really be able to process their feelings and move to a place of being able to say but what is my plan and what is the truth? Because so often that fear can then just be crippling for them.
Speaker 1:Oh, so that's why sometimes they procrastinate because they're afraid. Yes, and so it's okay for them to be prepared.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:As a result of that, that will help them move forward, right, right.
Speaker 2:But if it's worst case scenario, it's again like so many of the challenges that each number faces how much safety is enough safety to feel safe? And so it would just be filling a cup that has no bottom, unless they look at worst case scenario and then come back to a place of okay, but what's reality here? Yeah, I mean, this may be one of those places that you see people who are just preparing for the end of the world, that are just stockpiling things and again, not that there's any judgment of that, but like how much is enough to make you feel safe? Right, and all of us probably have those friends that we know that, hey, if things go down, I'm going to my friend who's a six because they're prepared, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Their whole basement is stashed with food and water, and they're ready to go.
Speaker 2:Well, you let me in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, being a whatever I am, I can I relate to some of this stuff. You know I have thoughts of like why can't I have a cabin in the woods?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you know some place I can go shelter when the world goes sideways. I make those, I have those thoughts, but then I'm too lazy to go do that, so I don't. Well, six is though. They've got it. So just the easy way is know a six.
Speaker 2:Right, yes, just be connected to a six. They'll keep you safe. You need to have one friend, that's a six in this world, you need a friend from every number. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sixes run stuck a bit because of their fear and are there some practices that you know, like with the five we mentioned, I think we mentioned deadlines and so that they don't continue to analyze. I think with the four, I think it was nature, maybe or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the simplicity of nature and the beauty in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so for the six. I assume journaling is always in there. I'm assuming naming your emotion is always in there.
Speaker 2:Yes, and maybe like the gut triad, where we ask ourselves what am I angry about? Probably for a six it would be, and actually for the five and seven too, cause they can get caught up in fear or anxiety. Is what am I fearing?
Speaker 2:You know and to be able to journal about it, to be able to talk to someone about it. You know, one of the things we encourage sixes around VU, when I'm having team discussions where there are sixes, is, you know that communication of letting a six share with you what they're afraid about you know, or what they might be having fear about because they're being able just to get it out, helps them to see that okay, that's not exactly where we're at.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But if not, they just keep kind of circling round and round.
Speaker 1:Okay, and if you happen to report to a six, here's a little tidbit from me, because I've had to report to sixes before, and that is. They like to be informed.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So it's Good to think who needs to know this and it does my six boss need to know this, and so sometimes you don't want to just keep things to yourselves. You kind of want to over communicate because it helps them to lead better.
Speaker 2:Yes, that way.
Speaker 1:I don't do that very well but in that. But they appreciate that I know.
Speaker 2:Yes, that that that takes that fear away and it also builds trust, and sixes have a little bit more problem Building trust with people takes longer, absolutely, because both the phobic and counter phobic can find themselves feeling suspicious Like what do I not know? What are they not telling me? And so, yeah, if you're reporting to a six, you might even find yourself feeling like you're having to over communicate.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that is right.
Speaker 2:Because one of the things, too, that both you know struggle with the two is doubt, so like maybe even doubting their own leadership, doubting that, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:So if you want to mess with the six, never communicate anything with them.
Speaker 2:And tell them all the worst case scenarios that they haven't thought of yet. Well, and another thing I would say too with the sixes is to really be able to find the courage within yourself because, again, sixes, especially the phobic sixes, really can get in codependent relationships as they attach to someone that they believe is going to keep them safe and secure, and then they can start to lose themselves and just being again in that codependent relationship with a strong you know, a strong leader, and so being able for sixes to really work to have that courage, to be able to have courage in themselves, faith in themselves, because they're really great at having faith in others and having that, you know, courage, especially in leadership, but to be able for them to have that, that sense of courage within themselves.
Speaker 1:So once that's done, once they build trust, and when they're all in, they're all in.
Speaker 2:They are.
Speaker 1:They're the loyalist of the loyal.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Loyal of the loyalist.
Speaker 2:Yes, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm very loyal, and so that makes them amazing. Well, kelly, this has been great. Yes, thank you so much for taking us down the road of the six and inside the mind of a six.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And we will see you next time on Enneagram. You bye Kelly, bye Damon.
