Beyond Your Number
You’re not just a type — you’re a whole story. Beyond Your Number is a conversational Enneagram podcast where Damon & Kelly explore real-life growth through personality. From relationships to team dynamics, we help you go deeper than the label. New episodes every Wednesday. Formerly EnneagramU.
Beyond Your Number
How To Understand Your Country Through the Enneagram
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Ever wonder if your country has a personality? Enneagram U dives deep!
This episode of Enneagram U explores the fascinating idea of applying the Enneagram to entire cultures! Hosts Damon and Kelly unpack how different countries might embody specific Enneagram types. ✈️
Want to know if your country is a go-getter Achiever (Three) or a stylish Individualist (Four)? Listen in to see if your national personality gets decoded! They even discuss potential types for Sweden, Germany, and Brazil based on their cultural traits.
This episode is perfect for:
- Enneagram enthusiasts curious about cultural applications
- Anyone who loves learning about different countries through a new lens
- Travelers who want to understand the "personality" of a place they're visiting
Tune in to Enneagram U and discover the surprising personality of your nation!
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Exploring Enneagram
Speaker 1Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly , where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you . Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast , together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram . This is Enneagram U . Hey everyone , welcome back to Enneagram U . My name is Damon . I'm here with my friend Kelly . Hi Kelly , hey Damon , we are pre-recording another episode .
Speaker 2We are Overachievers , I know , we are just totally motivated .
Speaker 1Right , so whatever week you're listening to this on , it doesn't really matter anyway , because you can go back and listen to a podcast anytime you want .
Speaker 2That's right . Beauty of podcasts . This is the time in the world that we're living .
Speaker 1I love it and hopefully our stuff is somewhat evergreen . Yes , it is .
Speaker 2Yeah , so five years down the road , you'll listen to it Right Go , wow , still works .
Speaker 1Still works and we already shared our feelings in another episode , and so we decided to be authentic and say I don't , I have the same feeling .
Speaker 2Yeah , the feelings are the , they haven't changed . And you ?
Speaker 1don't know what that is when you're listening , but you don't really care .
Speaker 2Yeah , so we're going to talk about travel because Kelly recently got back on a trip from France . Yes , I was inspired while I was there because I'd heard I hadn't done a lot of research , but I'd heard people talk about like different countries and their Enneagram number .
Speaker 1Like the country , there's a strong Enneagram number per country .
Speaker 2Yes , or like how a country like just is in the world , okay , perceived , perceived . Or even how they kind of act out numbers .
Speaker 1How a nation acts to the world In an Enneagram . They each have a number , kind of way . Yes , we'll see . We'll put it to the test here . Yeah , I don't know .
Speaker 2Yes , in traveling to to Paris , I was just like I can totally see France's number played out , isn't it ?
Speaker 1funny how many things people are trying to put the Enneagram on .
Speaker 2I know , I think it works . It's good , it's fun .
Speaker 1It's entertaining . I love it .
Speaker 2Even like TV shows . You'll watch different TV shows and you'll be able to pick out different numbers .
Speaker 1Okay , not just the characters , the show in its entirety is . I hadn't thought about that . No one's done it .
Speaker 2That's thinking outside the box there .
Speaker 1Cause I've been thinking about the characters in the show Yep , you can pick out their numbers . Yep , and I would say networked ABCs is probably this .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , oh , there you go .
Speaker 1No , I don't know . Netflix is this yeah , peacock , yeah , maybe the three Peacock . Yeah , you're right , now we're stretching .
Speaker 2I know .
Speaker 1But you're right . It's funny how it's like there's an Enneagram show for everything . There is Every topic .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I thought , since I traveled and just you know , you get outside your norm and you're with people that you know from all over the world , and so it just made me think about that more . So I thought we would just do this special little one-off on travel and the countries . Let's do it All right . So Enneagram one . Of course , that's the good person .
Speaker 1So the good country . There's so many countries .
Speaker 2Yes , Well , the Enneagram for the one , the country most often in my research I found was the UK .
Speaker 1Really yes , they're good , they're good . They want to be perfect .
Speaker 2Well , I mean , I'm sure they probably think they might be perfect .
Speaker 1Well , the King of England .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1You know they have to have a king and a queen .
Speaker 2King and queen .
Speaker 1Very put together .
Speaker 2Yes , They've got rules and order . Like , did you ever watch the Crown ? Yeah , yeah , I mean and I know it's historical drama , but I mean what the queen had to go through and just all the protocol and tradition and really giving up her life in order for the country , and not just being the queen of England , but also over the church . I mean there's a lot to that , so I would say that would be yeah , the number one . I get that . So yeah , say that would be the number one .
Speaker 2I get that so yeah , the UK would be the one .
Speaker 1Okay , two , as the loving person , what would be the loving country , the loving country . I know all our listeners are thinking what I'm thinking , which is maybe they know , I don't know .
Speaker 2Well , or they're thinking there are no loving countries .
Speaker 1I can't think of one right now .
Speaker 2But for the Enneagram the country would be Italy .
Speaker 1I love it . I'm a little Italian . Yes , yeah , that's good . I love Italy .
Speaker 2I've never been there , but I love Italian food .
Speaker 1All right .
Speaker 2So in the research it was just saying that Italy really has this like maternal side , this like caring , Also the you know idea of , hey , let's just eat . Yeah , I mean , there is something about Italians and family and how important that is Loving and hey , we stick together , yeah .
Speaker 1To a fault . To a fault Because then it can turn into other things . Yes , like the family . Yes , if you're not in the family . If you're not in you're out , you're out , you're very out , I guess that would be the two going to the eight and you just rid anyone who isn't part of the family . But generally speaking , you're right . Yeah you're right , love and Italy , that goes together .
Speaker 2Let's feed you . You know , love comes in you know , feeding your belly . Yeah , all the good food Also Feeding your belly . Yeah , all the good food . Also , you know , just the idea that Italians are known to be pretty emotional you know ?
Speaker 1and Okay , Now wait a second . Yeah , Maybe I'm not Italian . Yeah , I am .
Speaker 2Do you ?
Speaker 1really have some Italian in your family . Yeah , my family is originally from Italy . Okay , I didn't know that , and you're gonna have to tell what you are .
Speaker 2Oh , I will , I will Okay , yeah , so so the good country or the loving country would be or , I'm sorry , the loving country would be Italy .
Speaker 1Yep , that makes sense to me .
Speaker 2All right , the number three this should be pretty obvious . I don't know , I feel like we need to have Bruce Springsteen , born in the USA , playing in the background .
Speaker 1It's the United States of America .
Speaker 2It is .
Speaker 1We are task driven , task driven yeah .
Speaker 2Show me the money .
Speaker 1Yes , we're the peacock , we're the best Look at me .
Speaker 2Competitive Mm-hmm Work , ethic Work work , work , yeah , all that , yeah , I even noticed , when I was in France , the mindset like I brought with me , so I mean you only know what you know and what you've experienced . And so just this idea that , well , everybody you know , most people that I'll interact with , will be able to speak English .
Speaker 1I mean how ?
Speaker 2how three is that ?
Speaker 1Well , that's , that's American way . English , you know , is the language of money and people do , and it is the language that know .
Speaker 2Most countries do speak , but yeah in in preparing for the trip . One of the things that you know just in , you know the different things that are recommended , is learning you know some french things , and not just automatically thinking that your people that you interact with , like at restaurants or whatever , automatically going to know english but , I will say that all but two did really did know
Cultural Contrasts
Speaker 2english that was . I appreciated that yeah , we . We had Google translate ready to go if we needed to .
Speaker 1Oh , that's cool .
Speaker 2But yes , but yeah for the three , uh , for the United States , yeah , just that sense of competition and um spinning things to where we come out on top .
Speaker 1Yep , yeah , all that we're number one . Well , I wouldn't think any other way . Yeah , it's hard for me not to be proud of the United States .
Speaker 2Yes , I mean , and really honestly , even though there's a lot to be proud of .
Speaker 1Yeah , and there are some things not to be proud of , but there's just something in me that wants to be proud of it .
Speaker 2Yes , I don't know .
Speaker 1Interesting .
Speaker 2It's our home country .
Speaker 1Right , of course , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , and even going away , I was really glad to be home .
Speaker 1You know , not that I didn't feel safe in France , cause I did feel , you know , feel safe , but it was just good to be back home in my normal rhythm and routine , and and I think the United States could use some humility , even if we are strong and have good things . We definitely have a lot of weaknesses as well , but I remember I was on a trip with someone and they hadn't been out of the country before , and when we got to the other country , they're like this is your country , I mean not in a condescending way , but just kind of in a realization that not everything is like the United States .
Speaker 1Oh , I mean we take a lot for granted , yeah , like just our infrastructure and some of those things that we're just like . Well , yeah , of course we have these great roads .
Speaker 2Right , Even though we all complain about the roads . Yes , of course we have people that come and get our trash weekly or we have doctors that we can go and see .
Speaker 1And yeah , yeah , very interesting . Definitely can see the three as a USA , yeah , for sure .
Speaker 2All right , the four .
Speaker 1The four is the creative .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1And unique .
Speaker 2Very authentic .
Speaker 1Where did you just go ? Yeah , you're right , it's France . It's France , yeah .
Speaker 2And I completely agree with this .
Speaker 1Really .
Speaker 2I mean the beauty there , the aesthetics , deep beauty . I mean things are really like from the food to the . I mean , of course , the historical museums and everything is just so incredibly beautiful . Yeah , it was quite the four adventure , yeah , interesting . But I wonder too , like this was one of the thoughts I had so like going to the Louvre where , like , let's say , for example , where the Mona Lisa is , so picture this , so you've got this beautiful , I mean beautiful building , beautiful artwork , and they have the Mona Lisa , like in the center of this room , and it's like there's the barricades to where people can't get too close , of course , because people have come in like thrown paint or whatever but really I'm thinking it's just like this place for many people , not for a four .
Speaker 2I think a four would be like I'll just go to another part of the Louvre and not mess with the Mona Lisa , because really it's about oh , give me a selfie in front of the Mona Lisa , so it's like the different numbers and how they interact with art too , and the Mona Lisa , that space really , it wasn't like dangling in the presence of beauty moment . It was like everybody's like heard it in and heard it out and yeah , so it was interesting .
Speaker 2but yeah , definitely say france has the uh four well , tell me again what are some other things .
Speaker 1So the french people then ? Have this and what are some other things about the four that we've learned ? That would apply to that culture ? If that's not , yeah , well no , I think definitely the creativity , the beauty .
Speaker 2Uh , you know as , uh , you know , when the french revolution happened . Basically , the palaces of these aristocrats were given to the country and now they are these beautiful museums . So they value art so much that they have made these palaces museums now .
Speaker 1And everybody there . There's a lot of unique people there .
Speaker 2I'm sure , yes , yes , artists flock there . Yes , artists , people there . Yes , I'm sure yes , artists flock there . Yes , artists flock there . We went to a place where you know a part of the city where , like artists have historically been , you know that's kind of their village and there was , you know , literally the accordion player doing the French music that you would think , with a cat on his shoulder .
Speaker 1No , it was not a cat on his shoulder .
Speaker 2It was , it was , and you know , one of the things , the highlight for me of the trip .
Speaker 1Oh no , you can't get over this . I hit my head . I was like that seems so stereotypical . And so you really saw an accordion and a guy with a cat on his shoulder . Yes , yes , Tell me , he had a beret .
Speaker 2Oh , a beret . Oh , I don't think he had a beret . I'll have to look back at the picture that I took , but he's just . You know , they're on the steps of the soccer core who is a , which is a beautiful cathedral . Uh , with his little you know can , out in the front for tips . He's just out there , he's just buskering . Yeah , buskering .
Speaker 1That's awesome . Um so the cat on his shoulder . Cat on the shoulders , Anyone . Have a cat that can stay on your shoulder ?
Speaker 2I don't know of any cats in the United States .
Speaker 1But you know what it feels like is that France is the polar opposite of the United States .
Speaker 2Yes , yes , well , and I think even for me the highlight of the trip , there is a cathedral in Saint-Chapelle that is a very old cathedral that's connected to this palace and they have restored the stained glass . That is just , if you can imagine . It's just like all the walls are all stained glass , basically , and it's scripture . So it starts with Genesis comes around to the back of the cathedral , or the chapel has a circular stained glass that represents John and just what John saw in Revelation .
Speaker 2And anyway , beautiful , beautiful chapel , and so my daughter and I got tickets to see a concert there , and so it was a Sunday evening concert . So they just put chairs in this chapel area and it was a quartet that played Vivaldi's Four Seasons , and it was just- .
Speaker 1Was it emotional ?
Speaker 2Emotional , beautiful . Oh it was . I felt like there has to be probably glimpses of this in heaven .
Speaker 1Like how beautiful that's a big statement .
Speaker 2It was Okay , wow , and even the musicians , like the first violinist , didn't even use a piece of music . And so all the rest were like behind their music stands and he would just come out and you know , just stand on the stage and , like my daughter said , it was like his whole body was the instrument .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 2Because he was just like one with the violin . It was unbelievable
Countries and Personality Types
Speaker 2.
Speaker 1Everyone's going to want to go to France now . Yes , go to France .
Speaker 2Don't miss St Chappelle . Okay , try to see a concert there if you can . Yeah , we were on the second row because we thought it was an hour earlier .
Speaker 1The concert was an hour earlier .
Speaker 2The concert was an hour earlier than it was and they recommended getting there an hour early to stand in line .
Speaker 1So we were , you got , you got there , you did , so we were the second second people second group that's cool line .
Speaker 2Yeah , no bruce springsteen there , but no yeah that would be , the windows would be blown out anyway . So I could go on and on about my experience with the four uh country of france , so it was beautiful and and the food amazing . Oh yeah , cobblestone streets , buildings , beautiful , I mean . Yeah , on and on , go to Paris if you want to see the four yeah . All right , moving on to the five . So the wise person , if Walt , who was our guest last week , was a country , what country would he be ?
Speaker 1Yeah , what was a country .
Speaker 2This is impossible .
Speaker 1There's so many countries to pick from . Yeah , what was the country ? This is impossible . There's so many countries to pick from .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't know , it's Sweden . Yeah , sweden yeah . So they say for Sweden . Some of the research says Sweden likes their privacy . So they just kind of like to step back . And yet they really do value , like learning and travel . So yeah , they would say Sweden is the five .
Speaker 1I don't have a lot to say about Sweden . I don't know much about Sweden , honestly , I'm sorry to say .
Speaker 2And maybe we would say that would be true of a five like , because they're just kind of pulled back and not out in the front . Okay , okay , the six Are we ready to move on to ? The six Is Germany .
Speaker 1Loyal , yes , loyal , yes , yes , yeah , well , historically , yeah , very loyal .
Speaker 2Well , to a fault right . Right , right , but they have been known as the six because they have a reliance on rules and processes and they really do attach to authority figures in order to feel safe which is what six does a lot of time for security . Now sixes are where my ancestors come from , from both sides of the family .
Speaker 1Both mom and dad .
Speaker 2Even my maiden name was Klein , with a K , k-l-e-i-n , which means small , so my people are pretty small , pretty short .
Speaker 1Really yeah , both sides of your family .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 2Both sides . We do have a little tad of Irish and French , but just very , very small .
Speaker 1All the rest , our ancestors would have probably hated each other .
Speaker 2They would have been at war At times . Not Italy , though In World War II , Italy and Germany were buds yeah .
Speaker 1Maybe that's how come we can coexist , I don't know .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Those were dark times .
Speaker 2Let's not go there For sure , but that makes sense . I think that makes sense to everybody . Make sense to everybody probably .
Speaker 1Yeah , we have a mutual friend that travels to germany a lot ? Yes , we do .
Speaker 2Yeah , it'd be interesting to have him ask him what he thinks , yeah , about that .
Speaker 1If he uh gets a sense of that while he's there he actually feels a little bit like a six to me , but I'm not sure . Yeah , I wonder what he he kind of clicks . He kind of clicks with germany , I think .
Speaker 2Yes , I don't know , we'll see yeah , that's , yeah , that's a good question . We'll have to ask him he He'll be like what are you talking ?
Speaker 1about .
Speaker 2We're like hey on the long flight . Listen to our podcast . That's one thing my daughter and I talked about . We were like he flies over there I don't know , a few times a year . I mean , oh yeah , more than that .
Speaker 1I mean many times .
Speaker 2Those are long flights .
Speaker 1And he is there then weeks like several weeks at a time and then back .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it's . I believe it's an agricultural right kind of a job yeah , for sure , all right , the seven .
Speaker 2So the party country um .
Speaker 1Is it somewhere south ?
Speaker 2it is , it is yes uh . Mexico , well , a little more south Brazil .
Speaker 1Okay , brazil , all right .
Speaker 2So if you think about how upbeat and positive they are , high energy party all the time .
Speaker 1Like .
Speaker 2I don't know , I think of I don't know , just like Rio de Janeiro and just the fireworks and the party . And I think of a friend of mine that I know , who's from Brazil , she used to work at VU and she's a seven , and I think of a friend of mine , that I know who's from Brazil . She used to work at VU and she's a seven and I think , like when I think of a seven and think of her and think of Brazil .
Speaker 1I'm like of course it all goes together . Oh , it all makes sense Okay .
Speaker 2The party never stops .
Speaker 1Wow , now everyone wanted to go to France , but they've changed their mind and they're going to Brazil .
Speaker 2Yes , well , if you want to go to party land , go to .
Speaker 1Brazil .
Speaker 2Yes , I've never been to Brazil .
Speaker 1I would . I actually would like to go . I don't know how they feel about the United States these days , or American people .
Speaker 2I have no idea .
Speaker 1I would want to know that , how safe it is how not safe it is .
Speaker 2I mean , that is one of the things we have to think about now . Never used to have to think about that stuff .
Speaker 1But now you kind of do , I still would love to see South .
Speaker 2America , yeah , yeah , all right , moving on to the eight . It pains me , this is you .
Speaker 1This is me . This is your people , this is me If I was a country if you're a country , what are you ?
Speaker 2I would be Russia . I did not want to put this down Like in research . I was like , oh , I get it though .
Speaker 1The unhealthy state Is that like sometimes you discover your number and you don't like your number . You discovered your country and you don't like your country .
Speaker 2I guess , so You're Russian . Yes , okay , peyton , but you can see my way , or the highway .
Speaker 1I mean conquering other countries . It's good You're Russian .
Speaker 2Don't want to be vulnerable . Yeah , I can definitely see that unhealthy my way or the highway .
Speaker 1What's your favorite alcoholic beverage ? Is it vodka ? It is not All right , listeners . Now we know what to get Kelly . She's hiding under her desk yes , vodka .
Speaker 2Yes , all right , last number , of course , your number nine Number nine . It's got to be a great place is Canada . I don't want to be Canada . Well , it's better than Russia .
Speaker 1Yeah , I would have to say it's better , better than Russia .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Canada feels somewhat vanilla to me . I don't know if that's the right word and that probably describes my life . Know if that's the right word and that probably describes my life generally .
Speaker 2The dark side of being a nine is that you're just too blah .
Speaker 1Hi welcome to canada . I think that was a line from the old movie wayne's world . Hi welcome to delaware . Um , anyway , oh yeah , canada has some great things definitely peace oriented generally . Yeah , well , when I think of canada , I try to stay away from everything except for like , uh , what I would say , like just the um , the scenery is amazing and probably someplace I would like to see would be , uh like western canada , the mountain ranges and stuff are insane yeah a little .
Speaker 1You know I wouldn't want to stay there , I would die but it'd be good to see .
Speaker 2Well , and you think about like even Canada has a little bit of some of the other countries mixed in , like I think about Quebec and some of the French speaking parts of the country and like there's just a bit of probably all the numbers represented , maybe not all the languages , but yeah there's a little bit of everything .
Speaker 1It's so different . You run to Canada . You need to get away .
Speaker 2They've got socialized medicine . So you're already going to be able to be taken care of at some point . I do think of a funny story , and I've heard this from two different people that have gone on cruises but have said that because of their past history of getting DWIs in their younger years that they have not been allowed in Canada , even though that is expunged off their record here in the United States . So it's like they have this high value , for we're keeping ourself safe safe and secure .
Speaker 2And I also think about like during COVID , like they were the country that were locked down , like people could not come and go , like even , you know , when other countries were a little bit more open . I have a friend who lives in Canada and he was saying like if he were to come into the United States that he would have to go back and be like quarantined in a certain place for 14 days .
Speaker 1I do not want to be Canada . Yes , well , I don't . That's why I'm not a nine I think this is so which one of these other countries do you want to be ?
Speaker 2I don't know you want to be Brazil . I think it's Brazil . Possibly Today I'm leaning towards Brazil .
Speaker 1I'm leaning towards the USA . You would get so tired , though , but I'm going home .
Speaker 2I just don't want to visit Russia . I'm sure there's good things in the history of Russia . Oh , I'm sure there is .
Speaker 1I mean yeah Right .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'll have to ask my daughter . She's fluent in Russian . She is yes , you didn't know this . Oh no , she took Russian in college she spent a whole summer in a critical language studies program in the in the republic of georgia where they had to sign off that they would not speak english . So she was there . It was a state department at the time . The state department did , uh , this program for college students . It was called cls critical learning , uh studies . I think , um , and you would go .
Speaker 1They went for the whole summer and well , I do remember her going yes , but I didn't know she couldn't speak English and I didn't know she knew Russian . Yes , oh my goodness . I'm going to have to ask her to speak Russian to me .
Speaker 2And that , wow , it was funny on the trip , Uh there were on the the uh train ride to the airport , on the way coming back , um , cause you're around people that are speaking all kinds of languages . I didn't even know . And so we get to the airport and she said , yeah , those two women that were talking , they were speaking Russian . I was like what'd they say ? She can be a spy , because I'm sure they're thinking nobody's going to speak Russian , we can just say whatever we want .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , but she was a little spy there .
Speaker 2That's cool . She's got the gift of eavesdropping . We've always said that is crazy , anyway , yeah , so at least my daughter she was drawn to Russian because I guess her mom is a Russian country . So yeah , even though you're German yes , german ancestry .
Speaker 1Yeah , anyway , interesting .
Speaker 2Yeah , so yeah , if you're ever , if you've ever , wondered about different countries . These are just from some of the research I've done . Now I know there's other thoughts out there .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's fun . Well , I wonder what our listeners think . I wonder if they think they should be in that country , if that's who they are if they want to go there .
Speaker 2Well , I mean , I can't say this and you're obviously saying you're not interested in Canada but I wonder if some of the other numbers are like oh my , like our one listeners . If they're like oh my gosh , I've always wanted to go to england .
Speaker 1Now you know why because you're one , right , or italy because you're two . Yeah , I like that usa .
Speaker 2You want , you know , here we are we're number one , yeah , even though we're number three , yeah , well , yeah all right , that was very good that's really good .
Speaker 1I cannot believe you are russia and I cannot believe I am canada , and I have no idea how we can be on this podcast together .
Speaker 2I know I don't think Russia and Canada like each other . Maybe we need to help them . Maybe we need to help Russia , if only .
Speaker 1Yeah , this is how you get along .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1A treaty with Canada .
Speaker 2That's our foreign policy .
Speaker 1There you go . Well , thanks everyone for listening . I hope you find yourself traveling somewhere this coming summer , and that now you know if you go to one of those countries , what number it's going to be , that's right . All right , thanks for joining us . Bye Kelly , bye Damon .
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