I Feel You, A Fortify Wellness Production
Bettina Mahoney the Founder/CEO of @atfortifywellness is a rape survivor who started her brand after struggling to not only find a therapist, but multiple mediums to heal through her trauma. Fortify Wellness is a 360 holistic platform offering therapy, coaching, fitness, and meditation on one subscription platform. We dive deep with our trailblazing guests about overcoming adversity.
I Feel You, A Fortify Wellness Production
Strategic Financial Planning for Women Post-Divorce
Gain the tools you need to navigate financial independence and life's transitions with confidence in our latest episode of "I Feel You." We're thrilled to welcome back Tracy Burns, a financial advisor at UBS, who specializes in guiding women through divorce, transitions, and entrepreneurship. Tracy opens up about her recent surgery, sharing how this personal challenge has deepened her empathy and reshaped her approach to life's hurdles. She discusses the critical steps women should take to stay financially engaged and independent, especially during and after divorce, offering heartfelt insights and practical advice.
Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracy-byrnes-cdfa%C2%AE-17103bb6/
**These are the comments of this employee only, and not of UBS Financial Services Inc., its subsidiaries or affiliates. Communications may be monitored and retained by UBS. All information and comments are provided for current, informational purposes only. See http://www.ubs.com/fas-legal for the full disclosure.**
Follow Fortify Wellness on our new Tik Tok & Instagram platforms @atfortifywellness. Join our newsletter for weekly FREE content on all things wellness, mental health, and EXCLUSIVE offers.
**This information is not to be misconstrued as medical or psychological advice. Please contact your medical team if you have questions or concerns pertaining to your medical or psychological well-being. All of the linked products are independently selected, and curated by the fab Fortify team. If you love and buy something we link to, we may earn a commission.**
Hey Fortifiers, thank you so much for listening to I Feel you, a Fortify Wellness production. We are into season six, where we sit down with trailblazing women in their industry to chat about overcoming adversity, moments of fortitude and, of course, anxiety. This information is not to be misconstrued as medical or psychological advice. Please contact your medical team if you have concerns pertaining to your overall well-being. I am your host, bettina Mahoney, the founder and CEO of Fortify Wellness. Today on the podcast, we welcome Tracy Burns again. You can tune to season three and listen to our episode with her called Financial Planning is Not Rocket Science. Tracy is a financial advisor at UBS, focused on women navigating through divorce, transitions and entrepreneurship, so honored to welcome back Tracy Burns. Hi, tracy, I'm so excited you're back on our podcast.
Speaker 2:I am too. How are you I'm doing?
Speaker 1:great. How are you doing post-surgery Feeling okay?
Speaker 2:It's been interesting. It certainly puts life in perspective. I have a whole new appreciation for how believe it or not our disabled community lives. Because you know, now all of a sudden I'm looking for ramps and things and, um, it's odd that, like, a lot of places don't have, don't have that stuff and so, um, yeah, it's not cool, but it's been okay. People have it way worse than me.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious how is this experience for you, post-surgery, empowering you through this new chapter in your life? Obviously you touched upon a few challenges, but I'm curious, like in your professional life, how has this empowered you and amplified you?
Speaker 2:So on some level, you always have to believe things happen for a reason, whoever you or whatever you believe in, right, and I haven't figured out what the reason is yet, but if nothing else, it has certainly taught me, and I thought I had a lot of empathy to begin with, but I have so much more now and, um, and I think one of the things in particular is that you just don't know what people are going through on a regular basis, and so I, um, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I I'm trying to slow down a little and be much more present for people. And if you don't want to talk about money today, that's totally cool. You want to talk about the fight you had last night with your husband, that is okay, let's just talk about that. And we'll get to do so many things that we feel obligated to do when, at the end of the day and you know this better than I people sometimes just need to talk, and so I have, and I've learned to listen a lot. I think I'm listening better now at 53 than I ever have in my whole life.
Speaker 1:Wow, I love that and I think that's important because obviously financial stress is huge for people, especially in the United States, especially right now, and you and I talked about this recently about how divorce for women can obviously be very stressful but also very empowering from like a mind, body, soul perspective. I'd like to sort of discuss, before we get into you know, your clients and their experiences and all those different things I'd love to potentially dive into the chapter that you went through post your divorce and how that might've impacted you and empowered you into your next chapter with your kids and your professional life and the things that you learned along the way through that experience with your kids and your professional life and the things that you learned along the way through that experience.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if I was fortunate or unfortunate enough to be divorced when my kids were little, but I am not. You know, some of my clients have been married for 20, some odd years, and then it falls apart, and that's. I feel like that's. That's just harder For me.
Speaker 2:I was still so young, I was still, um, dare I say, a little confident in myself, you know, um, and I think what you learn is you have to like yourself, you have to learn to rely on yourself, and at the end of the day, you sadly, might have to fend for yourself. And if you, you have to wrap your head around that, because there's no Prince Charming after all, right, we are. We are smart, capable people. We can do this. We don't need a man to help, and I think you realize that very quickly.
Speaker 2:Like I said, though, I think for women in particular who have been married for a very long time, change in anything is hard, but that kind of change just feels really hard for them and it feels really daunting. I was only married for eight years, and I say only loosely, it's still a long time, right, but but it wasn't like all I knew, and so I was very used to being alone and being independent prior to being married. So it wasn't a whole, it wasn't a big jump for me, but I think at the end of the day, like I said, if you don't like yourself and learn to rely on yourself, it's never going to work.
Speaker 1:And were there ways that you protected yourself from a sense, financially, where you felt independent and empowered to start that next chapter, or did you have to kind of start over again?
Speaker 2:So, again, I was very lucky. I was at my MBA in accounting, so I was always and this is like one of the things that I tell every single person whether you're happily married or wherever you are you need to see these accounts and have access to these accounts, and that means everyone should know usernames and passwords. I think I said this the last time we were together usernames and passwords, you need access to this stuff. I happened to be the person who saw it all and he did too, because he also was an accountant but I saw, I wasn't. I wasn't caught off guard. I knew everything. And one of the questions you asked me you know. Later on we'll talk about the next generation. I implore them from the beginning to look at everything, understand everything, and if you are going to delegate, you still need to participate at some level.
Speaker 1:So what are like the top? I would say, three mistakes that women make post-divorce that they wish. Oh, I should have prepared for this way before this happened, and now I'm stuck.
Speaker 2:So we don't have done so much research on this. I'm so glad you asked that. So, first of all, eight in 10 women will be alone in retirement. That's either because of death or divorce, and at least seven of them have said dang, I wish I paid attention.
Speaker 2:So the biggest mistake is that and I think it's with young couples in particular right, bettina, you're young, you're ambitious, you have this entrepreneurial gig going on, you fall in love, you guys have a couple of kids, you're doing all the things and finally you're like you got to do something. You're doing all the things and finally you're like you got to do something. So you hand off the long-term investment piece of your life to your partner because you're in your head, you're saying that's not going to knock the wheels off the bus. Today. I got everything else going right. I'm going to make sure that so-and-so gets to daycare and that this one has money for the afterschool sports and oh, by the way, I got to run this conglomerate business I have. I got all that. Can you please do something? And I think that's how it starts. And then we hand off these long-term financial decisions to our partner, but the problem being is we don't ever ask about them, and I always say, much like you run a business, you delegate responsibility and then at some point you have a business meeting.
Speaker 2:What did you find? What did you learn? That's what couples need to do, and it doesn't have to be formal, right, it could be over a glass of wine on the porch. Oh, by the way, you've been taking care of our retirement money. Where are we? What does it look like? What do we have? Should we put more in, by the way? How do I access it? You know simple, keep it simple. Librarian, by the way, how do I access it? You know simple, keep it simple.
Speaker 2:If, or we're delegating the kids college education right now because you got peanuts at home, fine, ask the question do we have a 529 plan? That gives a 529 plan? Quite frankly, what are we putting in it? How are we going to cover it? Like all we need to do is just ask some questions? I think the biggest mistake that women make is they don't ask questions. Just ask them. You don't need to. It's not I say all the time it's not rocket science. If it was, there wouldn't be 1000 FA financial advisors on every street corner, at least here in the Tri-State. I mean there's a lot of us, because it doesn't take much not to belittle my industry that you don't need to be a brain surgeon to understand your financial situation. Period end of story. You just need to know where it is and what you have.
Speaker 1:And why do you think people don't ask those questions, Is it? Obviously it's uncomfortable and it's stressful, but why is financial conversation so stressful and so uncomfortable?
Speaker 2:I think it's been dominated by men. I think men speak in code. I tell this story all the time. So in my previous life I was a reporter on the New York Stock Exchange and I was so new I didn't know anything about the stock exchange. I was a journalist who covered personal finance, like asked me about healthcare. So now I'm on the floor of the exchange. I have to report.
Speaker 2:I turned to a trader and I said can you please tell me whatever the number was, because I couldn't figure it out on all the boards. And he turned to me and he said it's Unch. And it was so loud down there. This is like one of my most embarrassing moments. I can't even believe I'm saying this. And I turned to him and I said I appreciate that, but I don't have time for lunch. Can you please tell me what this number is? And he looked at me like I was the stupidest person on the planet because he meant it was unchanged. But he couldn't say that. He had to say code unch because I wasn't in the club and he purposely wanted me to look stupid and he purposely wanted me to look stupid.
Speaker 2:And I think that there's a history of that in finance, that they speak fast, they talk in this code, that they think we don't understand. I also think that women think they need to know it all before they ask any questions whatsoever. Right, you need to have taken 10 finance courses in college to understand finance. I don't think that's true. I always come back to kale. We eat kale, which I hate, by the way. I don't think that's true. I always come back to kale. We eat kale, which I hate, by the way. I can't stand kale. But somebody out there said you really got to eat kale, it's good for you. And no questions asked. Now Everyone's eating kale. And there went good, old-fashioned lettuce. We don't question that. We don't question things like that. But meanwhile, if someone says you really should invest in the market, people's like, yes, the Hez blow up. So I think we have to just take the stigmas out. Ask questions, don't be afraid.
Speaker 1:I agree, de-stigmatize across the board with mental health, with finance, all of it, because the more we understand, the less we're afraid of. It is kind of what I always say and I think a lot of that talk and the de-stimulation stems from self-love and living in the emotion, and one of our coaches said recently everything we focus on expands, meaning if we unpack and live in that emotion, we sort of manifest and become it. And I think change is very scary for people and you come from a financial advisor perspective, working with probably a lot of high performing women. Can we tag some of those emotions that come up in the fears that come to you during high impact, high stressful, like information when it comes to finance in certain chapters of their life, whether it's divorce or it is a failed business, et cetera? What are some of the things that come up for you from your clients?
Speaker 2:So fear number one, right? How many people actually think they're going to live in a refrigerator box in retirement, which is like I get it on one hand, but on the other hand, no, you're not, you're going to be fine. I think there's an embarrassment factor that either one they don't understand it. You mentioned a failed business. I find the women who own businesses it's fascinating to me.
Speaker 2:We've always said that if a man has a business and someone walks down the street and says I'll give you three times its value right now, he'll say take it. She, on the other hand, will say, well, I don't know, it's my baby, I work so hard. Like, take the damn money and start over, right. And so we are too emotional. We are way too emotional about things. I have clients now where let's put the money in the market and we'll put you know the piece you don't need in the market and then we'll make sure the other is liquid. And and they can't pull the trigger, the stock market, it's so scary and meanwhile market's up 18% so far and we're still sitting here trying to make a decision.
Speaker 2:So I think I think that is a very big sad stigma around women is that we think too much. We overanalyze too much. There's almost too much emotion in this right, like when you run a business. You have to make a decision and move the heck on. I think in a lot of ways. If you thought of your portfolio as your side gig or your small business, maybe you can make faster, better decisions. But there's so much emotion to it. This is all I have. What if I lose it? So those kinds of things come up all the time.
Speaker 1:I agree and I think it's funny. You mentioned about the fear of selling. I also look at my business like it's my baby. It's my full focus right now, as you know. It's my baby. It's my full focus right now, as you know. But it's funny because someone said to me the minute that you take away your story, your mission behind the business from the product itself, is when you're going to soar. And recently I've been able to do that, taking away the investment. Not everything's so personal. Business sometimes is personal, but it doesn't have to be, and I've noticed that I soared and it's also more empowering that way. When you can take away the feelings behind it, it can make your life a lot easier.
Speaker 2:But as women we kind of tend to overanalyze and feel deeply about business. And it's funny because where I sit I would say to you Bettina, you know this is going to do well, what's your exit strategy? And that would probably blow your head off, because, but believe it or not, that takes a couple of years to prepare for right. You have to make sure your balance sheet looks good and, you know, put yourself in a good financial position, potentially to sell down the line, who knows? But you can't wake up on Saturday and try to market the thing on Sunday, so that even I think is hard to talk to women about, like, okay, you got this going, this is going to be great. How do we prepare for exit?
Speaker 1:And she just like she doesn't want to hear that it can be daunting because, on the other hand, you're like okay, you know you're going to work towards exiting. On the other hand, you're thinking, wow, like well, someone, will someone just stripped us away and ruin the mission, you know. And so it can be very terrifying, it can be fearful, could be completely altered by someone purchasing your business, which can be so scary. On the other hand, I think if we lean into our emotions and feelings and this dives deeper into what I do with my app is the more we understand and can sort of take in information, like data, and understand where it comes from and be able to do something about it. We can be productive data and understand where it comes from and be able to do something about it. We can be productive.
Speaker 1:So that was why I created the app is because we get all this fear, all of these emotions, and we let it sort of consume us, whereas I think we can actually empower ourselves to get the education, have the services and then be empowered about how we can make those decisions, even when it especially when it comes to financial stress and being productive and getting ahead of whatever it is that you're afraid of Most of the time anxiety. We're fearing the future when it hasn't happened yet. So in your example, preparing three years ahead for selling you, start now. That it lessens the fear, it empowers you to know I have control over this situation right now.
Speaker 2:But that also like dovetails into why I love doing financial plans so much, because doing a financial plan especially and again I'm going to say like especially for women we like to see everything planned out right. What am I going to do for the next 45 years? I want to know now. So, but the beauty of a financial plan is you take everything and put it in one story and then we tell a story and you don't have to. I think there's also a misconception that I have this bucket of money and it all needs to be invested the same way, and that is just an utter lie. So let's take this bucket of money, let's figure out your story. What's your plan? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I always use this dumb analogy that I always heard Tom Brady when he played maybe he'll play again, who the hell knows when he threw a touchdown, before he threw the football out of his hand, he envisioned the touchdown pass. So I would always say, and I still say, what is your touchdown pass Like? What is that? So then let's back into that. Who cares how crazy it is, because a man would most certainly already have made that touchdown right In his head. What is that? Let's back into it, and then we take your pot of money and we figure out how to be smart about it.
Speaker 2:So, okay, this piece we don't need right now, so we can go very aggressive and let's try to make a lot of money on this. This we need for retirement, so I'm not going to take too much risk. And this piece I need to live on the next three years, so I want no risk. So then when you do that and you say you wake up one day and you're like, oh my God, the market fell, you don't take, you're not like my whole life savings is gone, cause it's not because the piece that you need to live is perfectly fine, it's safe.
Speaker 2:And so I think when you start to prepare a little and I know no one wants to do this stuff, it's like eating your own toenails. But when you'd spend a little time and prepare financially about your life and where you're going, I think you could sleep a little better at night knowing that, okay, I have to put two kids through college and I have this bucket of money set aside. So no matter what happens in life, they're good, or I'm funding my retirement account. So then I'm not going to live in a refrigerator box because I'm okay. So I just think like if you could, if we could think that way and take the time. It eases the stress, the anxiety, the unknown, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:I agree and I think of the opposite side of the spectrum, the next generation that is graduating and getting into their careers and preparing, you know, maybe for marriage or they're engaged, and I like to always think about the concept of, like, joint accounts versus independent accounts. You know, and so like, what's your advice on young, the next generation, young professionals that are getting married, getting engaged, and they're preparing, they're starting from the beginning, they're preparing for the rest of their lives. What is your advice on, you know, joint accounts or preparing to live really good lives so that they're not, you know, freaking out when they're 53, preparing for retirement?
Speaker 2:That's a great question, and so we've also done a lot of research on this, and what's fascinating is that a fair chunk of women again abdicate financial decisions to their partners at a very young age. And I think it's like what we talked about earlier. Right, she's young, she's climbing the corporate ladder, she's got a bunch of kids little kids at home. She's trying to do all these things. So I would say, if nothing else, have conversations. Right, you're going to give your partner long-term responsibilities. What are the usernames and passwords to every account? That includes life insurance. That includes the mortgage. Who holds the mortgage? Can I tell you how many people, how many women, we go through the divorce process? She doesn't even know how the mortgage is paid. Who holds it? Know your debt, know your income, know where it is. You don't have to be the person that picks the stock portfolio Don't care about that but know where everything is, ask questions, and I love when people say, oh, but I'm not a numbers person.
Speaker 2:And I find that even more fascinating because when you get a paycheck and there's a boatload of numbers on that thing and you take the time to figure that out. You use your credit card all day long and there's a load of numbers, including interest rates, on that thing. So don't tell me you're not a numbers person. This is not, like you know, high level trigonometry. Here we're talking addition and subtraction, money in, money out. We all could do that, so don't be afraid.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think you know for me I'm very type A and I'm you know, I'm like I will go with the flow, just let me know when it starts. When can I put it in my Google calendar Like let's schedule this flow out? But what I've noticed is that when you understand information, it's less, you're less afraid of it, even finances. I mean. I remember years ago when my dad opened a Roth for me and I was like what is a Roth? And then it becomes very, very empowering. When you can have those meetings and learn about how much you're putting in and where's the money going and how it's being invested. It can feel exciting because you can feel prepared and then it lessens the fear a lot. And then once you start doing one thing like a Roth, then you start adding on and it becomes again kind of what you're saying, kind of like a side gig, of like how can I make more money, how can I save for retirement? How can I protect myself and my interests? And then I think independently. When you can do that, I think it becomes more empowering. When you do find a partner, then you know you have your own baseline, you have your own independence where you're not relying on somebody else.
Speaker 1:I think women are told a story. You know you're going to graduate, you're going to get a job, you're going to have kids and then your life's going to be about the kids and you sort of feel like, oh, I have to rely on my husband or my partner or whoever. And that's not true and I know that I sort of grew up thinking like you know, you kind of have to rely on that other person. And I'm in a place in my head now where I'm independent and I like being independent and I think that women can take their power back by.
Speaker 1:What you're saying is being super in control and being aware and getting the education, but what they do have and what they don't have. And what was interesting was one of my mentors goes on like an annual retreat with his wife every year and they talk about their goals. I love that, I absolutely love that, because I think that a lot of times we look at finances, it's like this mystified thing and we feel nervous and stressed so we avoid it and I think how fun would it be to go somewhere, go on a vacation and sit by the beach, sit by you know whatever, and have that conversation can feel exciting and I was excited by that because I'm like oh, you know I identify with business, so you know you can make like business strategy can feel less congressional.
Speaker 2:That way. I think it's fantastic. I have said to people go on a. You know they say go on a money date. But I would say don't spend the whole date talking about money because that ruins the date. Nobody wants to talk about money the whole time, but maybe just the first drink and pick, or the first whatever, and pick one topic you know.
Speaker 2:So if you don't understand what's going on with saving for college, pick that topic and turn to your partner and say what are we doing, how are we doing it, what do I need to know? And oh, by the way, what are we doing? How are we doing it? What do I need to know? And oh, by the way, what are the usernames and passwords? And I just think that, like you know, you mentioned, should they have joint or separate accounts. I think that's an individual thing. If she is uber involved, then maybe she doesn't need to have one. Maybe she doesn't want to have one. If it's a later you know often marriages that are later in life everything is separate and then they have like a joint house account. I think you just have to talk about it and I think that my generation did not talk about money before we got married.
Speaker 2:We absolutely did not. I think your generation and I hope there's a conversation about this going forward. How are we going to pay for things? Who's going to you know who's going to take care of this? You do have to separate church and state at some point, right, but? And you do have to delegate, but it doesn't mean, like we said, you can't come together and say this is we're paying. You know we're paying $300 a month for cable.
Speaker 2:I think that's wrong. What should we do? Like, let's talk about it. So, as long as there's open dialogue, it doesn't have to be scary and it shouldn't be scary. And if God forbid, something happens down the road, both parties should be well aware of their financial situation. It should not be. That should not be. You know the proverbial thorn in your side when you're if indeed the marriage does dissolve, it's sad enough and emotional enough. Finances should just be like well, this is what we have and we're going to split and shouldn't be complicated when it shouldn't be where she's like.
Speaker 2:I think he's hit all this money on me and I don't know where it is, and sadly, that exists, but that's because she wasn't aware from the beginning. You know what I mean. So people don't hide money from you unless they think they can. And if you're involved from the get-go, you're going to know where every penny goes. No one's going to hide money from you.
Speaker 2:You know part of the reason I decided to become a financial advisor. I was like toying with it. A bunch of years ago I had a client who's now a client. She slides two pieces of paper in front of me and she says do you know what this is? And I was like girl, it is an account in Costa Rica. Who's got money in Costa Rica? And she was like I don't know. And he was funneling money to an account in Costa Rica before they then filed for divorce. Or he then filed, I should say, and so. But if she was on top of things she would have known and he would have never done that. He couldn't have. So the more that we and I don't. You don't want to say that people are intrinsically bad, but you want to be on your on guard at all.
Speaker 1:That's why I've always been a very strong supporter of like a prenup, a prenuptial agreement. You know, being very aware of. You know this is like you don't want to think that anything's going to happen. In the event that it does, I love you so much right now that I want to prepare for that, because bad things can happen to really good people. We just have to address it and deal with it.
Speaker 2:I mean, sadly, it's like a statistical thing. It's like 50% I think it's a little higher now, but let's call it 60%, sorry, 40% of marriages fail. It's a numbers thing. And then you go to second and thirds like 50% of all second marriages fail and they keep. The numbers are there. So it's a. It's a I hate to say it's a business relationship. You just happen to really like your business partner. But if you think of it that way not to take fairytale out of it or the love out of it, but it is a business relationship at the end of the day, and if we start to treat it like that a little bit more, I think it's best for both parties, quite frankly.
Speaker 1:I agree and I hope that our clients, as we scale and we launch our product, can can work with you and feel empowered through you to not feel that financial stress.
Speaker 2:I would love that. I think what you're doing is so important and so special and you're going to help tons and tons of people. Thank you, tracy for joining us again, it was my great pleasure.