I Feel You, A Fortify Wellness Production
Bettina Mahoney the Founder/CEO of @atfortifywellness is a rape survivor who started her brand after struggling to not only find a therapist, but multiple mediums to heal through her trauma. Fortify Wellness is a 360 holistic platform offering therapy, coaching, fitness, and meditation on one subscription platform. We dive deep with our trailblazing guests about overcoming adversity.
I Feel You, A Fortify Wellness Production
Reinventing Purpose: Navigating Change and Wellbeing in Entertainment Law with Kim Youngberg
What happens when a seasoned professional is faced with the challenge of starting over? Discover the inspiring journey of Kim Youngberg, a dynamic transactional lawyer whose unexpected transition out of Universal Music's Bravado became a pivotal moment of self-discovery and reinvention. Kim and I explore how AI is reshaping creative industries and the parallels between the analog-to-digital shift and today's technological advancements. Through perseverance and creative problem-solving, the episode underscores the value of aligning personal passion with professional aspirations in an ever-evolving landscape.
About Kim Youngberg:
Kim is a transactional lawyer and business development strategist. She launched her career at Davis Shapiro, a top-tier music law firm, before moving in-house to Wind-up Records, the largest indie label at the time. There, Kim spearheaded the label's transformation during the pivotal shift from analog to digital music. Kim then ascended to Screenvision Media, the second-largest cinema advertising company in the U.S. where (beyond her advertising work) she brought iconic films by David Lynch/Duran Duran and The Rolling Stones to movie theaters. Later, Kim joined Bravado (a division of Universal Music Group) where, as part of the artificial intelligence task force she advocated for rapidly establishing the market to use AI in music and merchandise, and she forged alliances with superstar artists ranging from Taylor Swift and Ice Spice to Bob Marley, Run-DMC, and The Beatles. Kim was recently appointed to the board of Next Found Artist, a startup combining AI and independent film financing by pre-selling in product placement that changes depending on the demographics of the user streaming the film.
linkedin.com/in/kimyoungberg
Follow Fortify Wellness on our new Tik Tok & Instagram platforms @atfortifywellness. Join our newsletter for weekly FREE content on all things wellness, mental health, and EXCLUSIVE offers.
**This information is not to be misconstrued as medical or psychological advice. Please contact your medical team if you have questions or concerns pertaining to your medical or psychological well-being. All of the linked products are independently selected, and curated by the fab Fortify team. If you love and buy something we link to, we may earn a commission.**
Hey Fortifiers, thank you so much for listening to I Feel you, a Fortify Wellness production. We are into season six, where we sit down with trailblazing women in their industry to chat about overcoming adversity, moments of fortitude and, of course, anxiety. This information is not to be misconstrued as medical or psychological advice. Please contact your medical team if you have concerns pertaining to your overall well-being. I'm your host. Bettina Mahoney, the founder and CEO of Fortify Wellness, I am so excited to welcome Kim Youngberg.
Speaker 1:Kim is a transactional lawyer and business development strategist. She launched her career at Davis Shapiro, a top-tier music law firm, before moving in-house to Wind Up Records, the largest indie label at the time. There, kim spearheaded the label's transformation during the pivotal shift from analog to digital music. Kim then ascended to Screen Vision Media, the second largest cinema advertising company in the United States, where, beyond her advertising work, she brought iconic films by David Lynch, duran Duran and the Rolling Stones to movie theaters. Later, kim joined Privado, a division of Universal Music Group, where, as part of the Artificial Intelligence Task Force force, she advocated for rapidly establishing the market to use ai and music and merchandise, and she afforded alliances with superstar artists ranging from taylor swift to ice spice to bob marley, ron dmc and the beatles. Kim was recently appointed to the board of nextfound artist, a startup combining AI and independent film financing by pre-selling in-product placement that changes depending on the demographics of the user streaming the film.
Speaker 1:I am so excited to welcome Kim Youngberg. Thank you, kim, for joining us today. How are you? I am fantastic. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm feeling very grounded. When you take away all your amazing titles you have so many. You've done incredible things in your career, amazing achievements when you take all that away, how do you define who?
Speaker 2:you are. Well, it's an interesting question, especially this year, for me, because I did have all my titles stripped away. Basically, I was let go from Universal Music, from Bravado. I was the head of legal there for about a year and a half and I was part of a whole.
Speaker 2:You know it's been an issue throughout the entire entertainment industry this year, and so this most of this year I've been trying to figure out what it is I want to do next and who I am, and um, and it's been, it's been a very long journey. You know, I'm a mom as well. I have twin daughters that just we just sent them off to college, um, at my alma mater university of Michigan, go blue, um, so it's very exciting. But it's also a time where you know I didn't have a job. My kids are gone. Who am I? You know, um, so there was a lot of crying this year, uh, you know I, uh, they're trying to sort of figure out what, what I want to do next, especially because you know I am at a pretty senior level in my career and jobs like that are really hard to come by. So what I, what I've done, is there's, there's a couple of things that I've done. First of all, I have concentrated on my own wellness. You know I have been getting a lot of sleep. I've been biking, I've been on the city bike. I try to go every day. I've been doing yoga twice a week, so it's actually I feel good about my own, you know, physical self. And then how, figuring out what the next career path is taken. That has been a long journey and at first and this is I, this is some advice to people who are looking for jobs right now At first I just said, oh, I'll be a general counsel. It doesn't matter what the industry is, I'm a lawyer, I'll figure it out and I can do this, and I can do this, and I can do this and I can do this. Well, in this year 2024, the job market, especially for lawyers, in entertainment, entertainment is such that you can't just go out and say, well, I can do this, I can do that.
Speaker 2:It used to be in the old days. People would maybe you didn't have all of the qualifications for a job, but if you had a lot of them, you would apply. Men definitely would apply if they only had like 50% of the qualifications. Women would apply if they had more, like you know, 90%. But now what they're looking for? A friend of mine said their employers are looking for purple unicorns and they're finding them because they just want people to have that exact experience, and so it's been really difficult.
Speaker 2:So who am I? I don't know experience, and so it's been really difficult. So who am I? I don't know. You know, I think, what it is, and I've had a lot of help also from this guy named Rob Barnett, who's a headhunter. I've been working with he and his partner, reggie Williams. They have this thing where you try to find your true North and having sat down with them for a while and talking to them, I realized that my true North, what I really love to do, is to work in advertising, and so that's what I've been trying to do is is focus that like I'm that purple unicorn in that advertising um job. So that's where I've been focused, sort of out of music, definitely out of music, not so much out of film and TV I'm still working on film and TV.
Speaker 2:But so so who am I? I I am. I am, I'm a lawyer, I'm a business affairs lawyer and I love to work in technology and I love to work in new media and and and and new technologies where nobody has ever seen it. That sort of started from when I was at the record label, but that's what I love to do today. So, yeah, it's been a year of figuring that out. I'm also, you know. So I'm a lawyer, I'm a technology lawyer and I'm also a mom.
Speaker 1:I love that and I remember meeting you on a fourth effect. I think it was in a session of some kind on a Friday and you were so kind and I didn't obviously meet you before that event. But I'm looking through your LinkedIn. I'm like all the things that you've done, I'm like this woman has done so much, so such an impressive career, and she was so kind to everyone and so willing to pay it forward to the next generation of women that were working and building a startup. So thank you for that and I think that, too, you're just kind to people and you have an incredible energy and I think Universal Studios have or Records rather, has been laying off a ton of people right now, right, so you were part of the layoff, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wasn't just me, it was so many people and it wasn't like high, it was all around the whole gamut. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I'm curious, like how did that manifest for you when you got that news? What was kind of your first instinctual thought?
Speaker 2:My first thought. My first thought was to make sure my team was okay. Um, I, it was sudden and I had some, you know, mostly I've, uh, I had you know, like a status sheet and whatever, and they, they sort of knew we had weekly meetings, so like there wasn't a lot that I sort of just knew myself and they couldn't take over from. But that was my first concern was just like, oh, how is this all going to go on If, uh, if I'm not here? It kind of reminded me of when so my husband is a stay at home dad and I had, we had twins, and when I went back to work at 12 weeks, I remember standing at the door handing the one child to him and thinking how's this going to happen without me, you know, but but they, I'm sure they're fine, you know. But that was the first thought.
Speaker 2:And then, and then it was because I hadn't really been in the job market normally. In all my other jobs I always kind of kept track of the job market because I'd work. When I worked at the record company, it was always for sale. When I worked in advertising, you know, it was private equity and they kept saying we're going to sell or go public. So I never really have had a lot of job security, um, and which is its own problem, but uh, but yeah. So then the other thought was oh my God, I have to get back on there because basically I'm I'm not the sole breadwinner, but I'm the main breadwinner of the family. So it was a little bit of panic, uh. But then sadness, you know, and uh, I got to get back on the horse and like, look, start looking again. It's just not fun, you know, to look and and that's why it took me a while to figure out where I was going, and, yes, that's why there was a lot of crying this year.
Speaker 1:A lot of soul searching. You know like a lot of I can. I can only imagine the pressure that you must've felt going like, okay, I have to find something. I am the sole breadwinner in my household. That feels like a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1:And you know we like to talk a lot about adversity, especially with high performing women on the podcast, because I think it can make people feel less alone when they hear from people that have really extensive careers and backgrounds. It can help make everyone feel empowered and really motivated. And so that's why I wanted to start a podcast for the goal to destigmatize mental health and the way that we talk about mental health can make us feel less alone. And I understand that because I started my business after I was raped. I had a really traumatic experience. I was in entertainment my whole life competitive dancer and it really made me struggle. I was completely depressed and I didn't know where to turn to. It was really hard and I'm like why is it so challenging in the United States to find healthcare? That's 360?. So I created it myself.
Speaker 1:I created Fortify Wellness, which is how you met me through the fourth effect. You know I love that women can come together and empower each other and find problems and, you know, find solutions to problems and all those things. So Fortify is therapy, coaching, meditation and one subscription platform and in a lot of ways now, looking at this chapter of my life, I'm like I would have built this with or without that experience. For a long time I connected that experience to the reason I started Fortify Wellness and now, in this state of mind, I'm in, I'm like no, I had it in me the entire time. But we talk about adversity and I know you talked a little bit about this current adversity, but I'm curious for you was there an adversity earlier on in your life that sort of like pivoted you and shaped who you are today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a couple of answers on that. One First of all wanted to say you know, your story is so intense and so well inspiring, really, because you took something that was a horrible situation and you turned it into your power and I love that. I, I, you know no one ever should have to go through that. But because you did, now you're helping other people and I I just love that.
Speaker 2:I think that's. That's really commendable. I mean way more important than any job I've ever had making rich people richer. Put it that way.
Speaker 1:I think you're pretty badass.
Speaker 2:I'm like scrolling through your LinkedIn, but I so. Anyway, that's the kind of important work that there is around and that's why I don't understand why I sort of understand why they put doctors through sort of a hazing process when they're, because those people are making life and death decisions. But I don of understand why they put doctors through sort of a hazing process when they're, because those people are making life and death decisions. But I don't understand why they put lawyers through that sort of thing Because, like I said, we don't. We don't do jobs as important to humans as yours. You know, like we, we do things where you're facilitating, you're helping other people do this, you're helping people put it together, but you're not, it's not, it's not as important.
Speaker 1:I feel like what lawyers use, you'd stand up for people that need it. You know, um I have a lot of respect for as my dad's lawyer. I've watched him I mean, he's been a lawyer for like 50 years and I've watched him just stand up for people. And that's what you do in entertainment you stand up for people, their voice and that there's something to be said for that too. You know, standing up for people that need an advocate, and I think that's kind of what lawyers are. They're advocates for people and can fight for you know their rights or you know a good deal. You know a mutual deal. I think is very important and valid.
Speaker 2:I did more of the standing up for people when I was in private practice at the very beginning of my career, because then we represented artists and I felt that was important, a deal as I possibly could for them. And that was a little bit idealistic really at the beginning of my career, because after doing it for a while I realized, you know, instead of and this is also just a way of when you, when you get older, frankly, and you've had a lot of experience that you realize what's going on. At the very beginning of my career I would fight so hard for every single little detail, you know, and I would get angry and I would even. I didn't really yell at people, only only I would. There would be a feud sometimes, but as, after doing it for a while, I realized there's really. I think it was probably when I turned about 40 that I realized it takes a lot to get me angry, it takes a lot to get me upset about things and really you don't need to care about all the details. You want it Like there's certain things that you, that you push for and you can, but then the rest of it you just got to go with the flow, you know so anyway. So that's my as far as advocacy and that adversity points of adversity other than this year I was reminded of when I, when I went to law school, I paid for my own law school.
Speaker 2:My kid, my parents, paid for my undergrad and so I had to take out loans and I was coming back. My dad was driving me back and I just started crying. When I came by the city I was like, oh God, I have to go back Cause law school was hard. It was really for me. I mean, some people have an easier time, but I had to study a lot, and anyway I was. I was also just so poor. You know, I took out $25,000 a year, had to pay 16 of that in tuition, so it was $9,000 a year. I had to live in a New York city. Now, granted, that was a while ago. Still not a lot of money.
Speaker 2:So at one point I was on the subway and I was going to school and at that time they had this thing it was called the United Homeless Organizations, where they would go onto the subway and they would ask for money, but then they would also have like a cooler of sandwiches and oranges and stuff like that to give out to the homeless people. So I was on the subway and the people came by and I was like, oh, I want one of those sandwiches. But I was too proud to ask for one. And that was when I realized I was like boy, I don't know if I can go further down, you know, I felt like I am at the bottom here and then I realized, well, there's nowhere to go but up. And that was the philosophy that I took on.
Speaker 2:That one was you're in here, you're going to commit it. Because when my dad was driving me in it and I was crying, he said well, we'll just turn around, you don't have to go back. And I said, no, I've committed to do this, I've spent the money. I am, you know, I've got an apartment here, I'm going to do it so. So yeah, those were the. That was that when I was just sort of at the bottom, I was like, oh, and then you know it's funny because since then I haven't I've always, whenever I go on vacations, I'm always looking oh, could I live here in a different spot? And I I can't really find another spot that I would like to live better than New York. Whenever I'm flying in and I see the buildings and like it makes me feel like home. So yeah, new.
Speaker 1:York or nowhere. That's how I feel. There's like an energy in New York. You know, you just, and every once in a while I'll go. I'm from Massachusetts, I'll go back to suburbia for a weekend and then I'll come back. I'm like this is great. This is a nice equilibrium, because I need it here. I love the hustle and the bustle. It feels really motivating and it's also it's incredibly sad.
Speaker 1:Walking down the streets of New York right now and seeing all the homeless people and it's so cold and, um, you know, I, I I'm someone that likes to give and I'm like how can I give to people in the chapter that I'm in, through my app, to really help people to navigate those hard times when they feel like they're at rock bottom? How can I help them? Um, because I think I've lived a very fortunate life and I think, in a lot of ways, I've had a lot, a lot of adversity, but I've had moments where I'm like, okay, this is as low as I ever felt in my, in my mental space. You know, there was times in my life where I couldn't even see past the next hour, never mind years from now. So, to be able to see from both sides now, which I'm sure you're able to see.
Speaker 1:It feels really empowering and really exciting to be able to go. Okay, now I can help other people, which I think is really exciting. And I'd like to kind of shift gears a little bit. And you know, you've been recognized by Variety as Power Woman in 2021. What an icon. Billboard Top Music Lawyer in 2022. So, with all these exciting achievements, how do you stay grounded and manage your emotional wellbeing? I know you talked about, like now, how you kind of dealt with the disappointment and the pressure and the frustration, but how have you been able to take care of your mental space to be able to pour, not from an empty cup, to be able to give to your family and the work that you do?
Speaker 2:Um, well, as far as those awards go, I mean I think that's a little bit of playing the press, you know what I mean. Um, I look at those awards and there's, I don't know it's, it's more of um, uh, I know that there's friends of mine who get upset if they're not on that list, you know. So I don't know, I mean I've. I can tell you that I have never had anybody who is like a mentor to me. I've never had any like any jobs that I've ever gotten. It's on just out of my own energy and my own uh, pushing of myself and finding things and stuff like that. So I, I, I don't think I'm not grounded, I don't know. I mean I've just never I um, never I um.
Speaker 2:There's lawyers that they, they look at them as as rainmakers and worker bees. I am not a rainmaker. That's why I spend a lot of time in house. Maybe if I was a rainmaker I'd have more of an ego problem, but I am more of the worker bee. I'm the person who will figure out the deal that nobody's ever done before, or like I'm the one who will get a lot of things done for a lot of people in a short period of time, but I'm not the one who's out there. You know crowing about how good my law firm is or how whatever, or you know attracting those sort of things.
Speaker 1:So what I mean by the question is, a lot of times, when there's a lot of high pressure, we can feel, you know, our mood shifting or we might feel a sense, maybe, of imposter syndrome or we might be lacking sleep, feeling burnt out. So that's kind of what I meant by the question is, when you're high performing and moving at rapid pace, how are you taking care of your well being? Essentially is what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, yes, imposter syndrome, I've had that a couple of times. But you know, people have said don't even say that, that's not a thing. You shouldn't. Why are you perpetuating the fact that people would have an imposter syndrome? You know, um, is that a? Do men have imposter syndromes? I don't know. But I would say that I didn't have.
Speaker 2:So when I, when I went into advertising, I'd been in music for 16 years and then I went into advertising, it was completely different. You know, business model, distribution, players, jargon, everything, and so for that it took me a good six months before I really learned that business and I, and so for that it took me a good six months before I really learned that business. And I and I knew what was going on. And you know, in in in music, I had nobody who ever wore suits. You know, I would wear jeans and whatever. I didn't even wear makeup at the time and uh, and so then when I got into advertising, I had to, I had to buy a whole bunch of clothes, you know, like business clothes, and wear suits. So I guess, in a sense, I had to buy a whole bunch of clothes, you know, like business clothes and wear suits.
Speaker 2:So I guess, in a sense I felt like a little bit of a fish out of water for a while, but it was just that. Thankfully, you know, my, my boss at at ScreenVision Media, travis Reed, he was, he was, he gave me the space to figure it out, you know, and they and you know, after six months or so I figured it out and then I was there for nine years. So, um, yeah, I, I, I don't know, I guess I'm an Aries and I just power through any of these situations. You know I'm like I can do it, you know. So I would say I haven't really had that much imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1:I think that's great, and so many of the women that I have on here, they either feel the imposter syndrome or they they haven't, but they're very resilient and I found that I'm very resilient person as well. You know, four to five was sort of an offshoot of fortitude. You know, persevering during times of adversity and moving forward and never giving up is something that I'm really proud of, that I have. I think having a creative mind has been sort of an asset for me when it comes to building a startup. You find creative solutions all the time, which is really exciting. So, shifting gears a little bit. You've been an advocate for women in entertainment and how do you see the music industry evolving in terms of artists owning IP? And I know we've had, you know, famous artists have really, you know, infamous battles when it comes to, you know, shifting over and ownership of masters. So, because we have such a huge artist audience, I'm curious how do you see this shifting in the future for artists, especially with AI?
Speaker 2:I'm so excited about the whole thing. So, just as background, when I was at the record label, we went from analog to digital, and so that was the first time that technology had moved that fast, like ahead of businesses. And, by the way, the music industry is not known for its R and D. You know there's a lot of people who are in the music industry didn't go to college and there's not like there's no. Especially at that time, in the early two thousands, there was not a lot of tech savvy amongst the higher ups. You know there was run by a bunch of old men who needed their assistance to print out attachment on their email. Okay, so that was the situation we're facing, and then we had to learn to do those deals quickly and try to do the deals as quickly as possible and monetize it and take that money that's on the table, because the money will be gone if you don't take it for a while. So fast forward to what we're looking at right now in AI. It's the same thing. It's basically a new technology, it's a disruptive technology that's going to change the way creatives work. But it's the same sort of thing in that you have to be in it to win it. Basically, you can't ignore it.
Speaker 2:When I was at Bravado and Universal, I was on the artificial intelligence task force and that was one of the coolest things about that job, actually, because Universal is the biggest music company in the world and to figure out what to do about monetizing and protecting those artists assets was the huge. You know what we were facing and what we were looking at, and when I got on there I said to the people in the task force I was like guys, we are not, we cannot let this happen the same way we did when music went analog to digital. Because we are the market, we've got to create the market, because what happened last time was Steve Jobs created the market and he said, okay, here's what this deal is, are you in, are you out. And there was no negotiating of it at all. So luckily, the task force does have that opinion and Jeff Harleston, who's the general counsel, has testified in Congress about like what Universal wants to do with these sort of things and really it's an opportunity for content companies not just music to capture income streams that they don't have to spend money for.
Speaker 2:So, for example, frank Sinatra is not singing any new songs, but if somebody. You give them the stems, or somebody takes part of that and then remixes it, and whether they use AI to do it. And then AI doesn't really get a royalty for it, right, but the person who used the AI would get a royalty for it. So if you can share, you know, in that income, all of a sudden, record companies are making money. They don't they don't have to spend any money to make it. They don't have to spend any money to make it. They don't have to, you know they're. All of a sudden, they're getting a whole new catalog. The thing that you need to do, though, is to put some guardrails on it, so if it's hate speech, if it's violence, if it's um, even if the artists themselves don't like it, you know creatively, to have the right to take it down. Um, just kind of let it go.
Speaker 2:And then there's also things like, for example, in I just was at a panel the other day at Adweek where they were talking about monetize, re-monetizing some old sitcoms. So, for example, you're definitely too young for this, but there was a TV show called what's Happening. It was about some families that I don't remember what city they were in, but anyway they were talking about the fact that with AI, now they can put product placement in these old TV shows, and so not only can you get the rerun money, you know, in syndication or whatever, but all of a sudden you've got new products that you can put in there and the AI does that. So artists are going to should embrace it. You know creative companies like record companies, like studios, you know the television studios, the movie studios, you know we should all embrace it. Yes, there are the issues of AI replacing, you know, voices of actors, and I think the unions have done a pretty good job negotiating that sort of stuff. But it's, it's, it's, I think it's put it to this way. So I was also at another lecture where this professor was saying at one point in time, when Newton was discovering gravity, there was others somewhere else in the world. So as far as science goes, those things they will all happen, you know, and you can use artificial intelligence to accelerate those.
Speaker 2:But if Picasso wasn't born and if Picasso didn't invent cubism, there would be no cubism, at least where we're at right now with Gen AI. Gen AI can't invent cubism. It can only take cubism and and say you know, do something like it's in the style of cubism. So they always say that the lawyers are not going to get replaced by AI. Lawyers are not going to get replaced by AI. If they use AI, it's the lawyers who don't use AI that are going to get replaced.
Speaker 2:And the same thing with artists too. I mean, I don't know, there's always going to be that are going to get replaced. And the same thing with artists too. I mean, I don't know, there's always going to be, there's always going to be analog people who take film pictures and you know, and and do you know super eight videos and things like that. There's always going to be that. But it's so easy to now create things and especially in advertising too, it saves a lot of money where, if you're, if you're, putting up an idea for an ad campaign and you have this whole, you know, painting or whatever you have this artwork, that's, that's going like that. Well, if you get feedback from the client and you can just switch things very easily, it's just, it saves a lot of time and money. So, yes, I'm all for it.
Speaker 1:I think the more we understand something, the less we're afraid of it. I was afraid of AI when it first came out, and now we're creating our own AI technology within the app. People have, yes, that because we're here for compliance, we can't use outsource AI, but we can code our own. So it all is within Fortify Wellness and now that I understand it better, I'm like wow, this is actually really exciting. There's a lot of opportunity to build more community and I think a lot of artists, when they think AI, they're like okay, my job's going to be taken away or they're going to steal my intellectual property, Like do you feel that there's going to be a duel between record companies and artists as they push towards leaning into AI at all?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know the answer to that question. I think that that that mostly artists and record companies are aligned on AI and being able to use it, and using it creatively, because both are going to benefit from it. There's the question of ownership that you touched on before. You know, like Taylor Swift re-recording all of her sound recordings and and then having her own after, after the re-recording all of her sound recordings and and then having her own after after the re-recording restriction is over. I don't see that. I don't. I don't see that record companies are going to give up ownership of sound recordings very easily. Taylor is obviously an exception and she's the white whale, like whatever she does. Nothing else is like that, you know. So you can't really use her as an example For some artists that are have been around for a while.
Speaker 2:Well, here's the strike in the music industry. Basically 90 to 95% of the artists fail. So the entire music industry is carried by like five to 10% of the artists. So that's why, as a general rule, maybe those superstars might be able to get their sound recordings back or might be able to not give them in the first place, that they have some good lawyers and a lot of leverage, but as a trend I don't see that as happening. I think that the major record companies they keep, they hang on to that and you know. So that was the difference when I was in uh bravado, because at bravado, at in merchandising, you do short-term deals, you know, just a period of few years. You don't own their trademarks, you don't own any of their copyrights. But in, in record deals and in publishing deals, they own those things for all the life of copyright. So it's just, it's a different, it's a different way of thinking of things and I don't see that it's going to change now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the key is having a good lawyer from the very beginning to be able to make sure that you you know you safeguard everything, and that's what I've been. You know I have a free lawyer, but I also like I also have outsourced too, because you know you want to protect yourself so you don't have to be in a predicament where something bad happens. I think that's the goal here, and I think it obviously applies to artists as well, so I'm excited to hear about what you have coming next. Is there anything professionally that you have that you'd like to share with the audience that's coming up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I actually have am going to be starting two, two, one and a half, basically new jobs.
Speaker 2:Um, on Monday it took me a while to get here.
Speaker 2:I've been doing things like, um, you know, on the fourth effect, where I got onto a board of this company that's called Next Found Artist. That basically combines artificial intelligence and independent film financing. So the way that works is, let's say, in a scene in a movie, the character is holding a kombucha bottle, it might be a Pepsi, or it might be a Starbucks, it might be a beer, it might be whatever, or things in the background change, and so that's pre-sold in and then you then deliver the impressions to the advertisers. So that's exciting that I'm working on. I'm also helping a colleague start up an independent film studio that I can't really talk too much about. And then the two jobs that I'm getting are one is I'm working to be a general counsel of it's, a nonprofit media company here in New York, and then the other one is I'm starting to work with two ad tech companies One has taken over the other and to sort of help integrate them. But now I've got two things that I'm really excited about and we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1:That's really cool. The AI bridging with offering products to the consumer that would want to buy them that's really really interesting. So that must be exciting. I'm happy for you. That's exciting New chapter. So that much. Yeah, I'm happy for you. That's exciting New chapter. So, as we close, in one word, this might be kind of hard what do you want to be remembered for?
Speaker 2:No, I thought about this. I got it Fabulous.
Speaker 1:I love that. Thank you, kim, for your time. I enjoyed talking to you, okay, thanks so much.