Equity in Action: Reclaim-ing Mental Health

Today, host Kevin P. Henry is joined by Jarelle Marshall and Felicia Dixon of RECLAIM, and Reid Johnson of Volunteers of America Western Washington.

RECLAIM is a Seattle-based nonprofit which provides reintegration support that centers the mental, emotional, and relational health of individuals and families impacted by the criminal legal system to better prepare them for the return home. With their lived experience guiding their mission, Jarelle and Felicia share about the importance of mental health support for a strong community in the transition out of jails and prisons. 

Learn more about RECLAIM at their website www.reclaimwa.org, on Facebook @reclaimwashington, and on Instagram @reclaim_wa

Learn more about North Sound ACH: https://northsoundach.org/

Resource Library: https://northsoundach.communitycommons.org/

Questions? Team@NorthSoundACH.org

Find us on socials @northsoundach

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome to the podcast series Equity in Action, produced as part of the North Sound Voices Podcast Series. We'll explore DEIB, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, and what it means to community members here in the North Sound region. With host Kevin Henry of KPH Media, you'll hear personal stories, examinations of power structures, and calls to action around topics that impact us all. Lean in, see how you can be part of making lasting changes take root.

SPEAKER_06 0:47

Welcome to Equity in Action. I'm your host, Kevin P. Henry, and today we are focusing on mental health and self-care. In this episode, we'll explore how to support people who have been incarcerated or are currently incarcerated. Individuals who have spent time in the prison system or who are currently housed there face unique and often overlooked mental health challenges that require understanding, compassion, and intentional support. Today's guests are Jarell Marshall and Felicia Dixon from the organization Reclaim. Find out more about that organization at reclaimwa.org. Jarell Marshall is the Executive Director of Reclaim and a former participant, student leader, and board member of its earlier iteration, University Behind Bars, a higher education in prison system. Having been both directly and indirectly impacted by incarceration, Jarrell leads with a lived experience and a deep commitment to healing justice and equity. Our second guest is Felicia Dixon, the program director at Reclaim, where she leads reintegration and wellness initiatives that support individuals returning from incarceration as they rebuild their mental, emotional, and relational well-being. This interview was conducted in front of a live virtual audience of 988 mental health crisis counselors from Volunteers of America of Western Washington's Behavioral Health Program, led by Program Manager Reed Johnson. And uh I'm always happy to bring in people who know way more about a topic than I do, especially this one. And uh so we'll just get started. And what I'll do is I have um three or four questions that I I sent to uh well, I guess I sent it to both of you this morning. So I wanted to start off with just um uh having um Jarrell and Felicia introduce themselves, and just if you could spend maybe a few minutes just giving us a little information about your background, and then we'll go into your organization, and then we'll go into some more specific questions.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

Uh my name is Jarel Marshall, and I'm the executive director of Reclaim. Um, a little bit of background about me. Um I grew up in Washington State, um, between uh Kitt, which is just south of Seattle, um, and also uh spent some uh time of my childhood um living in uh Tacoma, Washington, which is the other city, major city in western Washington, just south of uh Seattle. Um and uh between ages of 16 and 30, um, I was inside, I was uh I was uh inmate number 30975 um in the Washington State Department of Corrections. Um and during that time I found refuge in the learning environment of the former iteration of our organization when it was known as University Beyond Bars. Um I got to my parent institution, which is the Washington State Reformatory, uh, which is no longer um operational. Um I got there when I was 18 and was there until I was 26. Um, and it was really uh within the learning environment that was um curated at that institution that I was able to really escape, um, if you will, for lack of a better term, um, from the uh comings and goings of the uh prison environment. It offered an opportunity for me to invest in myself. It offered an opportunity for me to think outside of the walls and beyond the walls of the prison where I was at. Um, and really it created an opportunity for me to build uh meaningful and lasting relationships with community members and people that I uh considered lifelong friends. Um and that really, I would say, uh enabled uh and catapulted uh my success when I released at the age of 30 uh back home into the community.

unknown 5:02

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Um so my name is Felicia Dixon and the program director at Reclaim. Um I've been in my PIS, well, I've been at Reclaim now a little over a year um running uh all the programs that we operate, which we'll talk about in a minute. Um, so a little bit about my background um is like I also um am native to Washington State. So I grew up um here, also in the Tacoma Lakewood area, um up until um I was 18. Um I was eight, 18 when I was incarcerated and sentenced to 18 years. And so I spent 16 and a half years at the Washington 10 Correction Center for Women between the ages of 18 and 35. Um and then I was released. Actually, I just realized this on Thursday will be my five years home. Um five years has gone by pretty quick. Um, but when I released, um, I decided to move to Seattle. Um so I decided to try to start um something different, moved out of the area that I knew, um, have lived here in Seattle since um and actually applied to go to college. So a big part of moving up here was also that I was accepted to the University of Washington, Seattle, um, where I finished my bachelor's degree in sociology. Um started working out here um at a law firm. Um and when I graduated, um what has connected me to this work is that when I graduated, um, I realized with this time on my hands now, um I was actually struggling emotionally. Um, and I had like kept myself so busy that I didn't realize I was struggling. Um, and so being at Reclaim has given me the space to kind of build um what it was that I needed when I came home. And so we'll talk a little bit more about that. Um, but that's just a little bit about me and my background and how I got here.

SPEAKER_06 6:55

Great. Well, thank you so much. So, my uh first question is really just to talk about Reclaim and uh just give us kind of an overview of the organization and some of the programs and the mission of the organization.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Yeah, I'll start off by sharing that the mission of Reclaim is to provide reintegration support that centers the mental, emotional, and relational health of individuals and families impacted by the criminal legal system to better prepare them for the return home. Um I think it's worth noting that our organization um has been around for this is gonna be the 21st year that our organization has been around. Um so our organization has some uh history um within Washington State that I think is worth uh mentioning and talking a little bit about. Um for the first 17 years of our organization's history, um, we operated out of the Washington State Reformatory as University Beyond Bars. Um, and we were a higher education and prison program. Um in fact, we were the foremost uh higher education and prison program for the men's facilities in the Washington Department of Corrections. Um Pell funding was uh snatched away um from folks that were certain time uh during the Clinton era, during the Get Tough on Crime era. Um, and community had to step in to uh support uh people that were incarcerated on their educational journeys. Um and uh University Beyond Bars was uh one of many uh great organizations that was formed in response uh to provide educational opportunities to people, regardless of how much time they had to serve, uh, regardless of where they were serving time. Um a lot of folks were barred from seeking out and being able to get educational opportunities based off of how much time that they had. Um, so if you had 10 years to serve, for example, and there was somebody else who had two years to serve, the person who had two years to serve was the one that was given priority and preference uh for an educational opportunity. Um, and oftentimes what that meant is that people uh were overlooked for the vast majority of the time that they were inside of an institution from uh receiving educational opportunities and being able to better themselves in that way. Um, and so the our organization was the brainchild of a group of men from an organization known as the Black Prisoners Caucus, who um envisioned an environment and a world where everybody had equitable access to education. And so that was how our organization started. Um, in 2021, in the midst of uh the pandemic, um uh then Governor Jay Ensley um issued a directive to the Department of Corrections to reduce its prison population in order to curb the spread and the constant outbreaks of COVID that was claiming the lives and in fact uh impacting the life uh the health of so many incarcerated uh community members. Um and the answer to that was to uh close the Washington State Reformatory, which was one of Washington State's um oldest uh prisons um in operation uh prior to its closing in 2021. And with the closing of that prison, um we were also getting boot. And so our organization had to figure out like what it is that we were going to do. Were we going to try to shift to another state institution, offer higher education courses? Um, were we going to uh totally uh reboot what it was um that we offered as an organization? And we chose the latter. Um we had the opportunity to engage with our community members who were being released. Um we saw the greatest number of our community members released in a three-year span um than any other you know, three-year span in our organization's 17-year history. And um, without having that red tape that DLC put in place for us to be able to interact with our community members that were returning home, um, we fully leaned into that. And what we found out and what we discovered after you know meeting with, interviewing, talking to um countless individuals is that people were really struggling with their mental health. Um, and that really was the impetus for us uh shifting and rebranding from University Beyond Bars, where we are offering higher educational opportunities to folks to um reclaim and offering uh to support folks on their mental health journey um during the re-entry process.

SPEAKER_06 11:53

Well, that's great. Thank you for such a such an in-depth uh overview. And and that kind of leads me to my next question is you talk about we talk about mental health, and obviously a lot of people have different mental health issues. And I know that I've run into people, as I'm sure you have, that think it's just like with people that um have been trafficked before or something. Well, all you need to do is just um get them out of the life or or get them out of prison, get them a job and a place to live, and we're all good. So I wanted you to talk about some of the programs that that you have, but also um kind of the why of it, you know, um why are they so critical? And what are some and thirdly, third part of the question is what are some of the special challenges that people who have been incarcerated or are presently incarcerated are just dealing with, you know, mentally, emotionally, uh, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Yeah, I can talk about I can talk about uh some of our programs um and like what we've designed um and launched within the last year. Um, so our first program is a therapy voucher program, and what that looks like um is we're providing uh vouchers to folks that are coming home who want to seek mental health support through the avenue of like seeing a therapist. A lot of times that is um for the first time they are seeing a therapist, especially in our communities who um one have been marginalized, but two, there's a large stigma around um mental health and the mental health care system and the medical system just in general. And so um we have designed the therapy voucher program. It is um what I was brought on to really like flush out and and build out, and it has been like a personal um like not growth area, but like it has been like my personal journey to like really make sure that this is held very well. And so um our therapy voucher program provides free therapy sessions with one of our mental health practitioners, participants who apply. Um so what that looks like, um it's it could be different each year. So we have a set amount number of sessions that we will provide and we will compensate our therapists um up to$130 per session. And so we also want to make sure that our therapists are taken care of. I don't know there can be competitive rates. Um, I wish I could pay more, but like 130 is uh where we are at now. Um and so there are a couple of things that happen for somebody who wants to be in the therapeutic program. One, they can just apply the basic criteria so that they are um formerly incarcerated themselves or a loved one of somebody who's been um impacted by the criminal legal system. Um, and that's something that's been really important to us because what we have recognized is that yes, the person coming home struggles, but it's also a huge transition for the family members and the person that they are releasing to. People are struggling um in their relationships, in their um both person, intimate um and like family relationships with like the reintegration process. Like, how do you fit in? What does it look like to come home? The expectations that like people have of you that you have of yourself. Um and so um it is really important to us to make sure that we also provide um a space of care for family members that are experiencing this. Um, because we also know that they don't have an outlet. A lot of times there's not a lot of people in the community who will talk about having somebody, um a loved one who was incarcerated. And so um it is important that we make sure that we hold those folks and make sure that they also get care during this time because it's a huge transition for the entire family. It's not just the person who was incarcerated, it is the entire family that has been affected by this. Um in our therapy voucher program, I have um hand picked all of our therapists. Um and so when I first came on, I actually interviewed over 60 therapists. Um, I've accepted 24 into our program. Um and what that means is I've like personally interviewed them. Um, we're talking about all different kinds of things. They one, their um uh experience with incarceration, if they have any any um talking about biases, talking about misconceptions, stereotypes, um, also talking about privilege, um, what it looks like um to hold these different spaces, power dynamics in the therapy room. And a big part of that for me is just wanting to make sure that we're being very intentional with matching a community member with a therapist. Um it is already a big enough deal to get somebody to the to the starting line of like say, okay, like I'm willing to try therapy, um, I'm struggling or like I'm gonna try something different. Um, but also it is important that that person um they can trust. And so that is why I take such like very careful steps to make sure that like I trust the person that I'm going to match them with and I match them individually. Um, so say Kevin, you know, you come to me and you say that you're ready, we talk about what's important to you. Like, do you have identities that are important? Is um do you have a specific gender of a therapist that you would like? Um, do you have a specific modality or approach that you want your therapist to have? Um all of those different things. And based on that, I will send you the name of a few therapists that I think will work for you. Um so it's very, very intentional. It takes up quite a bit of my time. I'm literally in the process of onboarding our next um cycle. And I've spent, I mean, I've been in meetings since 11 a.m. this morning. So um it takes a lot of the time, but it is like well worth it um to see somebody like really flourish and and tackle the things that they're struggling with. Um so that is our therapy voucher program. The second program that we are offering um is what we're calling the collective care work group. And what this is, is kind of like a training for therapists. Um what we have done is we when um folks came home and we had the opportunity to engage with them in a different way, um, what we actually decided to do was to interview folks around what it was that they were struggling with. So we interviewed people that had left the men's facility, people that had left the women's facility, and then um family and loved ones of folks that had released. And so what we found through those interviews were themes of things that folks were struggling with. Um, one of the questions we asked them were what were some of the survival strategies that they employed inside that worked for them while they were inside, but that are no longer working for them now, that are actually hindering their lives. And based off of all of those answers, um, we kind of developed a training to give our mental health practitioners a baseline understanding of like, this is what our community is struggling with. These are the things that we're seeing because there is no formal training around the things that folks are struggling with when they're coming home from incarceration. Um and so wanting to really like kind of give them a leg up and like, this is what you're gonna see, this is what we're struggling with. Um, the other thing that I also just think is important worth mentioning is that um Jarrell and I sit on this panel as somebody who he has been in a men's facility, I've been in a women's facility to talk about just what it's like um to be incarcerated, what it looks like, what it smells like, what the sounds are like, what our daily routines are like, um, you know, where do we eat, where do we go to gym, where do we work, like how what does that look like? And I think for us, it's just giving practitioners the context of like what our lives look like day in and day out, right? This monotonous um schedule routine that you begin implementing in your entire um that consumes your entire being while you're incarcerated. Um so that is we had it's it's seven weeks long because it's seven modules. And um yeah, I think that it just gives um our therapists like a perspective that um they're not gonna get in many other places. Um and the impetus behind that is that when I came home and I was struggling, I had to teach my therapist how to help me because there were not a lot of therapists who hadn't um had a client who had been formerly incarcerated, right? Like um, and so I wanted to take that pressure um off of our community members um and really for them to be able to kind of get into therapy and um really start their work.

SPEAKER_06 20:57

Wow. Well, I you you you wound up like I love this because you end up answering about four or five other questions I had just in that last in the last line. So you're making my job really easy. But one one thing I wanted to to to get some information or input on is say you you mentioned family members, and I also think of family members, I think of community members, and I think of society. And one reason I think of that was the my previous employer was Sound Mental Health, and I remember working fairly closely with someone who I think it was like a re-entry program, and she was her job was to get certain employers, like it could be Walgreens or Safeway or whoever, to employ people who had um a criminal record or had been incarcerated. And so it was very challenging at times because the people were just very resistant or there was a lack of trust, or and I know with family members as well, you know, okay, here comes Uncle Bob's getting out of prison, you know, he's been gone for five years. What are some of the tips I guess you can give both of you? On how we as individuals can be fair in in viewing people that have, you know, been where you've been.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

I I would like to use an example, I think. Okay. Um, as as I guess my answer. Um I will say coming home, I was very hard on myself. I I had very high expectations. Um, and then there was like a large concern, right? I knew that there were gonna be a lot of no's. I knew it was gonna be hard, I was gonna have a hard time getting a job, finding housing, which I did. I struggled with those things. Um and I will say I got a job at a law firm. Um and I was very hesitant to take this job. Um, I actually didn't even want to interview with them. And it was like a friend that I knew um who knew about my background. They had been a volunteer in the prison. Um, and so they were like, no, like it's not a big deal. They don't care about your background, like they understand. And I'm like, no, like this is a law firm, like I'm like not gonna work here, they're not gonna trust me. Like, I'm not gonna be treated fairly, I'm gonna be judged, like all the things, right? Like, what happens if my probation officer shows up here, like in this type of environment? Like, I'm gonna get fired. Um and I will say, like, the biggest thing that somebody that that they did, and it was it, it was I think small to them, but big to me that somebody had to like put in perspective for me was my first day, they handed me keys to the building and a credit card. And I was like, they're gonna give me a credit card, like and they're gonna give me keys to the building. Um, like they they know about my background though, right? And I was like talking to somebody about this, and they were like, Yeah, Felicia, you're an employee just like everybody else. And so I think it's it's taking that perspective, right? Like we are people, we are people just like everybody else, and all we're asking is to be treated like everybody else. If you are gonna hire me, then I am qualified to do my job. If I'm qualified to do my job, then I should be treated just like everybody else. There shouldn't be any special circumstances of like, oh, she get doesn't get a credit card because of this or whatever the things be, right? Like it is to treat somebody just as you would treat anybody else. Um, I think that that's the the biggest thing that you can do um when it comes to like thinking about trust and thinking about somebody coming home is treat them like they're normal.

SPEAKER_06 24:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:45

If I could add to that, I would say that like we as community members have a responsibility to like help reintegrate um other community, our community members who are returning home. Um just like there are you know reintegration programs for people from you know different areas of life from different professions, such as the military, um, who need you know a little bit of extra support when coming back home from combat or you know, just reintegrating back into normal civilian life. I would say that the tr same is true for people who are coming home from incarceration, right? They've been in a setting, they've been in an environment that is different, um, has a different set of rules, and they want to they want to succeed, like they want to be a part of uh the community, they want to be um uh treated as equals, right? We all want love, we all want, you know, connection, we all want uh care, we all deserve those things. Um and I think that when we shift the way that we look at uh people who are returning home as just people who are returning home and who may need a little bit of extra support, um, then that'll shift um that'll shift so much in our culture around how we um treat, support, look at uh people who have uh been incarcerated and who have been impacted by incarceration. And let me just say that that number is in the millions, right? It's not just it's not just a few people here and there. Like there are people that I would venture to say, I would venture to say that most of us on this phone call know at least one person who has been impacted by incarceration, or we if not directly know a person, we know somebody else who has a friend or family member or loved one uh who has been directly impacted by incarceration. So this is something that touches all of us.

SPEAKER_06 26:47

Well, we have about 10 minutes left, and uh I didn't know if I didn't see anything in the chat, but Reed, did you have a question or did any of your team members have any questions that we could address? Not me per se, but our guests.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yeah, I so one thing that I come to mind for me, and uh Felicia, you had you had kind of hit on it uh a little bit, is that I think one not necessarily struggle, but something new for us, right, is is how to approach these calls that we're getting from folks who are incarcerated. And is there is there anything different that we should be doing or considering? Um I think Felicia, to your point, like in most cases, probably not, and that maybe the most important thing is that they are just that it is it is treated like a normal call, and that there really isn't that you know a a different route that we need to go when working with somebody who's so the people that are calling us there um who are incarcerated, it's being marketed to them as um a service to utilize when they are in emotional distress, um, when they are needing someone to talk to. Um, it is not being marketed as a service to use if they are in like immediate, imminent danger crisis, like they're supposed to go to their own resources for that. Um, so we do get a lot of people who are calling to just kind of call to to to chit-chat and talk, which is okay. Um especially because it's a new service. There's a lot of people kind of exploring it and seeing you know what the what the boundaries are and and what the what the uses can be. Uh, but is there is there anything that you guys can think of that would would need to be approached differently or more carefully or um or anything like that that that for us to consider? I know that's a general question, and then honestly the answer might be that it might be that that there isn't, and that it should just be treated like a normal nine-to-day call. The the the incarceration factor is um not as relevant.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

Uh are these calls monitored? Are they calling you from regular prison calls?

SPEAKER_03 28:47

They are not they're not monitored, they're only recorded on our side just like any other nine-day call.

unknown 28:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, I think that's hard to say. This is like a new concept for me, and like to wrap my mind around because they didn't have this, like obviously, like when we were inside. Um, I would say, yeah, that was gonna be one of my questions. Like, what is the confidentiality around the conversations? Because there are impacts um and can there can be large impacts to the things that you say um when you are in a correctional facility, um, that once those wheels are in motion, there's no stopping, um, could really impact somebody's life there. Um I would say I think the other thing to consider I don't I don't know, like yeah, I would just I guess the thing to consider is um trust is a is a big factor for folks that are inside. There most folks um inside um have some form of trauma and are experiencing trauma. Um and I don't think that I realize I was experiencing trauma until I was no longer incarcerated. And so thinking um about trust is is a big factor. Um and then also a lot of times folks have not been listened to. Um, and that is, I think something that like we could say just across the board, right? Like there are the stereotypes among folks who are incarcerated. Like um, we hear things like, how do you know um when you're being manipulated? Like one of the things they said in the women's facility is like when a woman opens her mouth. So the the concepts and the misconceptions that are um spread across facilities um very much isolate you and detach you from thinking that anybody cares or is willing to listen to you. So I I could imagine that a lot of folks are calling, like you said, just a chit chat because it's it's somebody who's actually listening to them, probably, maybe for the first time in their life. Um so yeah, thinking about that, and I would just honestly um going back to trust, being as honest as you can, right, around what like you can actually do and what you like actually cannot. Um, because I think one of the biggest things is to give somebody false hope while they're inside around something um can be very devastating. I think yeah, those are the things that come to my mind.

SPEAKER_06 31:21

Great. Have you got any thoughts about that, uh, Jarrell?

SPEAKER_04 31:25

No, I think we should hit all the points here.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

Shit boom, boom, boom. All the bullet points. Well, I have a question about your organization. Where would you like to see your organization be in two years? Or do you have certain goals where because I'm always thinking when when you have programs like this, you know, funding is it can be challenging. Um maybe the community is not rallying around what you're trying to do so much, and we're living in some very strange times anyway. So is there um kind of like a wish list that you have for the organization in in in general? And yeah, that would be the question, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

Yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head with funding. I mean, with every organization, um, funding is always um a big thing. Um we can't really operate without funding. Once we run out of funding, we are asking people to do work for free, or we are unable to provide the services that we currently provide. Um and right now, the biggest program, the most impactful program, um, which is the one that Felicia is, you know, running really, really well, is our therapy voucher program. And as she mentioned, we're offering free therapy to people who um can really benefit from mental health services. Um we are doing our best to uh make therapy as accessible as possible and remove all barriers. Um, and we will continue to do that through uh community education, through training, through networking, um, and through relationship building. And so I think that one of our goals uh looking at the next couple of years is to expand our network of partner organizations, partner institutions, of partner funders that will enable us to continue to do this great work and to do to expand uh the amount of work that we're currently doing.

SPEAKER_06 33:30

Well, and one thing you touched on is, and we like to use this word normalizing the conversation around mental health, and so that people aren't uh ashamed, afraid, um reluctant to reach out and get help, because in some cases, if that help was there or if they felt um like they could do that, they might not have wound up where they wound up in the first place. But I think that so often we, you know, it could be cultural, sometimes it could be just, you know, your own lived experience with within your family, that where I've known a lot of people who said, you know, I was struggling for a long time, or I was dealing with depression, and then finally it just escalated to a point where they wound up acting out, and then they wound up in the wrong place at the wrong time, making the you know, the wrong choices, that kind of thing. So I think just normalizing it within the community, and and you mentioned the word stigma earlier, just getting rid of that stigma. If somebody's um struggling, you know, they should be able to say, hey, I'm struggling, instead of six months later, you said, I've been struggling for six months.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

And if I could add something there, I mean, it is it is not a character flaw to be struggling, it is not a character flaw or deficiency to deal with anxiety um or to deal with depression or to deal with any other thing that is impacted by our mental health or impacts our mental health. Everybody has mental health. That's there's no question. It's just what is the quality of your mental health? What is the quality of your mental state? How are you processing and dealing with those difficult emotions and things that come up for you? Are you dealing with it in a healthy way or are you lashing out on those closest to you or on yourself in ways that are unhealthy and that are causing more trauma, trauma points? And so I think that that's also worth mentioning.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Okay, I was just gonna say, I would just add, like thinking about our goals and like you said, normalization. I think my and the the conversations I've had with Jarrell is that like we just need to be having more conversations in our community about this. Um, I've had I've done a lot of work recently in other areas of folks that are impacted by incarceration. And the one thing that comes up all the time is like people are struggling in their like relationships and like just processing their own emotions because we have been in a space where it was not okay to be emotionally vulnerable, where it was not okay to struggle, where the access was not provided unless you had a diagnosis. Um so when you take somebody, for instance, like me, I went in at 18 and came out at 35 and did not have access to therapy that entire time, of course I'm struggling. It makes sense that I was gonna have depression, um, but we're not talking about it enough, I think, in this community. And that's where it like really, really starts. And I think that has been like the big push and um goal of Jarrell and I and our organization is like, even if it's yes, I would love, I will not ever say I don't want to have the funding. So the funding helps a lot with what I can offer folks. Um, but also, you know, we have to have these conversations because a lot of these conversations were never happening in the first place, especially in black and brown communities and communities that are really impacted by the criminal legal system.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Equity in Action is produced by Meg Stevenson at Northsound ACH and Kevin Henry of KPH Media under North Sound Voices. Our music is by Roman Sunny K Music. We want you to be involved in the shaping of this podcast. Do you have a story or a resource to share? Reach out to us at communications at northsoundac.org and subscribe to us on Apple and Spotify.