E37 - Spiritual Memoir and Visual Meditation ft. R.G Shore
Jan 26, 2024Episode 37
Alex Greene
In this episode of our podcast, we reconnect with RG Shore, author of the spiritual memoir "The Ocean Inside Me." Expanding on our previous discussion last fall about his book in the making, RG delves deeper into his extraordinary journey of healing racial trauma. He shares his unique experience of finding peace and self-awareness while incarcerated in a predominantly white prison, emphasizing the paradox of discovering healing in a place of confinement. Central to RG's journey is the practice of visual meditation, which he used as a sanctuary amidst the chaos and a tool for introspection.
In our last conversation with RG (Episode: 'White Noise, Brown Trauma: A Story of Awakening ft. Ro Shore'), we explored his profound story of personal growth and the transformative impact of meditation and embodiment practices during his incarceration. This episode builds upon that foundation, offering new insights into RG's continued journey and the evolution of his healing process.
Throughout this episode, RG also delves into the process of self-publishing and the evolution of the publishing industry. His decision to control his narrative by self-publishing is a powerful statement on authenticity and self-determination. This episode not only explores RG's book but also his broader vision of healing and growth, which extends to developing a masterclass on Udemy and creating a supportive community through his nonprofit organization, Northwest Wisdom. His holistic approach to healing invites others to explore their paths to inner peace and healing.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in personal growth, healing, and the transformative power of storytelling. RG's insights and experiences are not only inspiring but also offer practical approaches to overcoming personal challenges. To hear the full story and learn more about RG's journey and his techniques for self-discovery, tune into the full episode.
In this episode of our podcast, we reconnect with RG Shore, author of the spiritual memoir "The Ocean Inside Me." Expanding on our previous discussion last fall about his book in the making, RG delves deeper into his extraordinary journey of healing racial trauma. He shares his unique experience of finding peace and self-awareness while incarcerated in a predominantly white prison, emphasizing the paradox of discovering healing in a place of confinement. Central to RG's journey is the practice of visual meditation, which he used as a sanctuary amidst the chaos and a tool for introspection.
In our last conversation with RG (Episode: 'White Noise, Brown Trauma: A Story of Awakening ft. Ro Shore'), we explored his profound story of personal growth and the transformative impact of meditation and embodiment practices during his incarceration. This episode builds upon that foundation, offering new insights into RG's continued journey and the evolution of his healing process.
Throughout this episode, RG also delves into the process of self-publishing and the evolution of the publishing industry. His decision to control his narrative by self-publishing is a powerful statement on authenticity and self-determination. This episode not only explores RG's book but also his broader vision of healing and growth, which extends to developing a masterclass on Udemy and creating a supportive community through his nonprofit organization, Northwest Wisdom. His holistic approach to healing invites others to explore their paths to inner peace and healing.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in personal growth, healing, and the transformative power of storytelling. RG's insights and experiences are not only inspiring but also offer practical approaches to overcoming personal challenges. To hear the full story and learn more about RG's journey and his techniques for self-discovery, tune into the full episode.
All right. Awesome. Really excited to be sitting here today with RG Shore again today, and it is what, December 30th? This won't release until the new year, but for, RG and I, this is probably our last recording for 2023, I would assume. So anyway, this is a follow up podcast. So RG was with us, last, fall, talking about his book. And I'll link to that episode, but I wanted to do a follow up conversation, with RG about, just following his journey of his first book, just as a quick review. It's, the title of his forthcoming book is, The Ocean Inside Me, a Spiritual Memoir on Healing Racial Trauma. And I'll let, RG tell a story here about, the book. But, it was a book that really captivated me, both the story behind it and even the process of being a first time, author, publisher, and things like that. Anyway, so this, today's conversation is just to catch up with RG, see where that project is going. He's also put forward some new things, recently through his, not for profit business, Northwest Wisdom, based in, near Corvallis, Oregon. Anyway, RG happy to sit down with you today and catch up on all the latest. It's always great seeing you and always great, following your Instagram and social media, seeing who you're interviewing. And yeah, what a blessing and what an honor to just get to sit on this couch with you and be able to just, enjoy a Saturday morning. I wish we were actually hanging out. this is pretty good. I appreciate, virtual technology these days. Our walls are similar colors and maybe even our couches. So I'm tricking myself into believing you're just. Yeah, here we are, exactly, I've told you my family is in Eugene, Oregon. So someday I haven't made, we didn't make a family trip this year, but we will that next year and, you and I will get to hang out in person soon enough, I believe. I cannot wait. Yes. Eugene is one of my favorite places. It's where I went to college. So Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Very cool. I'm cool. I'm very aware of just Eugene life and we'll make it happen. So yeah, I'm RG short, and it's just been an honor, getting to know you these last year and a half or so, and as you mentioned, I have a book coming out that I've been working on for a little over a year now, and it's called The Ocean Inside Me. And it's a spiritual memoir on healing racial trauma, and it's about, me being incarcerated. I was incarcerated for almost three years in an almost all white prison, and as you can tell, I am not white, I am a person of color. And so that really, was to say the least an interesting experience and a hard experience. And the juxtaposition was, that's how I learned to heal my trauma and release trauma was actually while I was incarcerated. And the only way I learned to do that was to go into my body because. When you're in prison, where else can you go? And so it was like, I have to stay safe. That was my number one priority on just a physical survival level. So it was like, really, my body is in heightened, heightened state of survival mode. And I'm also wanting to, discover the wounds within me to figure out, alright, how do I heal? How do I work on myself? And in prison it was like, yes, first stay safe, and then second, how do I address these wounds? and I had no one to guide me, except for my very uncomfortable prison bunk. and headphones. And when you're in prison, you're surrounded by People you don't necessarily want to be surrounded by and so letting that ego go, letting sort of the idea of having no control over anything go. But one of the ways that I was able to, mitigate some of the, cacophony was, I bought a pair of prison headphones, really cheap, plastic, crappy things that, look like they're from the early nineties and, transparent radio that only gets, whatever radio signals are near the prison. And, I would just turn on white noise to just drown out what I could. And that's how it all started is I was like, I need something to like, to give me a little bit of relief from the stuff going around me 24 seven. and so it was through this radio that I started. Tuning into this white noise and this white noise like a rhythm, a rhythmic drumbeat or something, it was lulling me into a deeper state of something, a flow within me. And that's how it all started. And then over, the book makes it sound like it's happening really fast, but I was almost in prison three years. So this is a very long. gradual process as is the healing process. It's gradual. It's never just overnight. And but the more I practiced these methods that I was teaching myself and learning from myself, the sort of deeper I went into my body, to a point where I was, encountering younger versions of myself. Now, one of the most interesting things I think in hindsight is I had no knowledge of this, but this is, essentially internal family systems, right? IFS and so I'm discovering it firsthand for myself without any knowledge, and I'm using different words. So I'm using spiritual terms and terms that I'm familiar with because, I have a bachelor's degree in religious studies and I'm a spiritual person. And so, I took what I knew and I applied it to what I was learning and discovering. And then I got out of, I've got out of prison and discovered it. This is not a, I am not a genius, this a whole field. I'm not sure you're not a genius. Well, thank you. It was very humbling to be like, Oh yeah, there's a whole category section at Barnes and Noble on this stuff, but that's the basis of this book was, okay, I'm learning to release trauma through visual meditation. And so you had asked, just what that was or what that process was like, and so visual meditation, I believe was my saving grace, right? When you're surrounded by white supremacists and neo Nazis and people calling you terrible things, and there's an energy, right? There's a very real energy that is, that you're being swept up into. It's if you've, ever gone home and or gone somewhere and someone's really angry and you walk into the room and you just feel that you're like, oh, yeah, you're just like, oh, something just happened here. That's essentially what it was like all the time. But times 10 or a hundred or a thousand. So it was very much, I need something to protect me from this energy. And so I think the reality that I didn't have any, exposure to mountains and trees and things that really can ground someone like going for a hike or whatever, and you're stuck around this stuff. I think my imagination pulled something out of me to allow me to go deeper. And so the visual meditation I felt was like my own spirit providing me. Providing you what you couldn't get externally. So it offered it to you internally. Yeah, and I don't think you have to go to prison to do it. I think that's the reality is there are a lot of people, including my wife who just meditation isn't necessarily just sitting still. Isn't necessarily for them. They need something. And my wife is a yoga instructor and so she moves through the body. So there's tons of different techniques and tons of different methods to get you to where you need to go. And this is just one of those methods that. Yeah. So yeah. So in and you recently, launched a, a video course, a masterclass, on Udemy, and I haven't gone through the whole program, but I got to see, some pieces of it that you sent me before it was released. And it's about visual meditation. And what I was curious about is as you're now, and I know this comes up in your book and we'll loop it back to the meditations offered in your book itself, but as you're now teaching, some of the skills. what strikes me is, there was, from reading your book, there was this pretty organic and intuitive unfolding. You didn't just say, all right, you know what, this environment sucks. I know what I need to do. I need to systematically go through my life history and okay, now I'm going to do that. It was more like if I understood correctly. It was more something that unfolded and came up, without you necessarily intending it and you were surprised by some of the encounters within IFS language parts or aspects yourself or your psyche or a deeper consciousness or things like that. But, what I'm curious about now that you're offering what you've learned to others, is there a tension between what happens spontaneously versus, somewhat of a structured approach? How are you handling that as you're teaching it to others now? That's, a brilliant question and I feel like we should end the podcast now. Oh, It's such a good question, I'm kidding. I think what I tell my clients and people I work with is I'm just here as a conduit, right? So I'm just here to provide you the safe space. You're the one who does the healing. And in and in saying that what I'm saying is above all measures and techniques and methods and tools, trust your body. So yes, these things are here to help guide you. They're here because we want you to heal. And if it's no, of no use to you, then let it go. And trust something that is of use to you. And your body will actually let you know what it needs. I often tell people there's nothing you haven't gone through that your body hasn't also gone through. And so trust he or she or they, whatever pronoun you would like to use, is your greatest partner and your greatest ally. And so trust that, and that's an intuitive trusting because I can't go into your body and. Be like, this is what your body's telling you have to listen for yourself. And so the techniques that I teach is first, how do we even begin to notice? If we don't noticing these patterns, then we don't even know whether or not our body is telling us anything. So that's the first thing. But to answer your question is like, the methods work, they really do work. And the greatest teacher is, your own body. So trust your body. Yeah. So you've honed in on this visual piece and I assume that's your naming because it was, because for you it was quite visual in nature. Both the encountering younger parts in scenes like in the cafeteria at middle school or times when you went to the river bank and, a part of Oregon that you knew well. So there was this immersive quality in a visual sense. And so that comes through strongly in how you. And so I hear two things that there's yes, your body is part of guiding you is what's allowing this state of useful meditation, healing to emerge, but that the visual component or an imaginative piece was, it was pretty strong for you. And so like in your masterclass, for example. How are you framing that for people about, how do they conjure up a visual scene? Do they just stay open to that? How are you holding that? Yeah. Again, another great question. And I think it's up to the individual person. Yes, like conjuring up a scene, but what I'm getting, what I'm getting at for the most part is when you start to discover these parts of you, these younger versions of yourself. They are normally at first, not very safe. That's why you're, that's why you're discovering for the first time, it's like a scared animal in a corner. And the worst thing you want to do is trap it in that corner. And so part of visualizing. Whatever it is you're visualizing is creating a safer space for you and that younger part to go to together. And so it's I'm just getting to know you. And when I say you, I'm talking about the younger parts of you, right? So I'm just getting to know you. They might be like, and I addressed this in my book. The first time I encountered my younger self, he had no idea who I was. You were right. Yeah, exactly. And it's just me. He was shocked. Who's this person? Who is this person? And it was very an interesting, and I'm deep in meditation at this point. And I'm like, what is going on that I'm encountering my younger self? And he has no idea who I am. I am. Yeah, Yeah, Right, because of the trauma and the blockages and the things that like keep us from having clear communication. And an IFS language, like that's you know, that's a thing. And the way we might phrase that is, we encounter parts who were formed at a time and place, a period of time. And there's something unresolved. There's something, and from their perspective, when we find them like you did. From their perspective, they're still in 1998 or whatever the situation is, and it's news to them that time has moved on. You're now 35 or whatever. And so it's the term we often use in IFS is updating. And so when we, and we don't just jump right into updating, we do the relationship just like you did. You have to find some rapport, it's like they're scared, they're bewildered. How do you form a relationship? And then when the time's right, you often would invite them. Hey, can I share with you a little bit about me? Are you interested in hearing about the old, the current version, and often they are, if some trust has developed. But yeah, anyway, I still go back No, I mean, to that. I had never heard the term updating, so you're updating me in all this information, and I love it. I love learning this stuff, and it's fascinating. It's just fascinating. And exactly, it's gradual. The development of relationship with these parts is so slow that sometimes when I was in prison, it would. I would see them for 30 seconds and that was too much. It was like, okay, I'm done. And you just feel it. I'm okay, that's enough. And part of the visualization piece to get back to your question was, I knew that prison wasn't a safe space for present me. And so it certainly wasn't a safe space for these younger parts. And so it was like, what can I do to create a safe space? And because these younger parts, this is so convoluted, because these younger parts are me. I already know what me likes right and so yes and no. And so in going to these places. It was sort of a win-win because it was creating a safe enough space for my younger parts to go, but then also for my present self because I couldn't stand where I was either right and so yes I think the visual meditation practices really help if you are in a position where your younger parts don't aren't really sure or don't really feel safe. It's okay create that safe space or you guys to go both go to and then over time that space is like a meeting ground. Well let's go to the river, you don't want to be here. Let's just go to the river and throw rocks because I know you like doing like skipping rocks. And so you're just again, you're starting to read the room, so to speak. You're starting to intuit like what your younger part needs. And then you're, and then you're meeting that younger part where they need to be met. And for me, it was like, let's go somewhere else. And I found with clients that have done these meditations with is it works the same way for them? They're like, Oh, growing up, I always went to the beach with my family and we'd bring, the family umbrella and the picnic and the, the sandwiches. And so when we're doing this, all of a sudden where they're going, they're bringing their umbrella, they've got their sandwiches and it's just them meeting themselves. And so we draw on our safe experiences if we have any, and those younger parts, usually know about those experiences. And so it's common ground for you and yourself essentially. Totally! Yeah. Really beautifully described. Super cool. Yeah, okay. So how about an update on the book process? Because, when you and I recorded and I don't know when it was summer or something like that. was, you didn't have the completed title. You had a print, you had a manuscript. You were figuring out how am I going to publish this thing. And you've come a lot further from them, but it's not yet published as far as I know. So bring us up to speed. Where are you in the publishing process? What have you been learning as a first time author getting your work out there? Yeah. Thanks for asking. The publishing process is a whole world in itself full of language and relationships and bureaucratic nonsense and. It's, I jumped into it headfirst and just did what I could to research and I submitted query letters, which is essentially like you query an agent. And you have essentially five seconds, so to speak on paper to try to get these agents attentions and then you do the same thing with publishers, right? So it's you're writing these query letters to these publishers that are, two or three pages long, and they're going to usually only read the first two sentences, maybe. And then even if they like that, they might not get back to you. So it's a very like. narrow path, so to speak. And so if you get liked by the query lender, then they ask for a book proposal, which is usually 30 to 50 pages of we want the whole outline of who your target audience is, how you're going to market like the whole beast. And so I submitted to probably 20 different publishers and I got feedback from three or four, and I got offers from three. And I chose one, and we went through a process together, and it was a really unique experience, I met with the publisher, and long story short. When you're incarcerated, there's a lot of taboo stuff still, and so being incarcerated, they weren't sure that they wanted to continue further, and I felt like that was. You mean that they were like the stigma of you having been incarcerated, they were not certain that, they were come, that it was a good look for their company to, wow, that's really surprising to hear. I mean, it's not surprising, but to me it's surprising. Yes. Yeah. It's funny. It's the marginalizations are real. And being a person of color and also, now, a formerly incarcerated person, it's all real. And so like I have a master's degree and a bachelor's and I'm certified in this and that and this and that, but I couldn't get a job, for almost two years after getting out of prison. And finding housing, all that kind of stuff, is a real thing. And so the publishing world is no different in regard to, in regard to the stigmas and, I sat with my wife for a long time about that and it was more like, having to release some of that energy. But trusting that I have a story to tell and it's important and the right people will hear it and the right people will come to know it and trusting that, like trusting that the energy within me is going to draw the energy and others that are ready to support that and hear that story and continue that story forward. I do my best always not to victimize myself, but to also be realistic, which is yeah, that, that really is. a crappy situation to go super far with a publisher. And they got ahold of me and it was funny because they're a pretty big publisher and they said to me, hey can we meet? We want to talk about your story. And I was so excited. I was like, Oh gosh, what do I do? And I went into the meeting, what can I do to convince them that this is the right story and when I met them. They were doing the same thing. They were like, what can we do to convince you that this is, that we're the right publisher? And so it was a very unique situation because I'm a first time author. And from my research, it's like less than 2 percent of authors get actually published. And then yet, alone, having publishers fight for you, especially if you don't have an agent. So it was really a unique and interesting situation going from, Oh, this is like big to then. based upon stigmas and whatever else we can't move forward in this process. Yeah, it was sad and, having to sit with some of that was tough, but then it was like, this is not a reflection of me. This is a reflection of you and a reflection of where we are as a country that we can't have these conversations still, so it's very interesting. And, but I will say this, that, in sitting and doing a lot of the practices that I preach, I realized that I'm going to continue in self publishing, and really have creative control, over what I tell and over my story. And that was really important to me, because not to stick with the publishing world, because it's, no one really cares, but the publishing world also is dying, like the traditional publishing world. Yeah, it's being disrupted. It's being disrupted, and so there is from the traditional publishers, like a real we're going to hold on as tight as we can to this thing that probably should be let go and given to the people. and so self publishing is becoming less taboo. I liken it to online dating, right? Like in the early 2000s. Right. You do want to admit that you're online dating and now it's the most normal. How did you guys meet? The library, but now it's just normal. And so I think that's where self publishing is heading. And so I think, there are a lot of really good books out there that have been self published and the traditional publishers, the bureaucracy that lies beneath that is we still want to have the reins on this beast. we don't want to give it to the people yet. And so I was like, I know my book's good enough. I know my story's good enough. I'm going to continue to have creative control. Take the reins on this. So something that is, something that's impressed me about you over time. I can share this with you is, whenever you do something, my experience of you is that, you approach it in a really straightforward and comprehensive way. You don't seem like the kind of person who sits on an idea, which is a little bit like me, by the way, sits on idea for five years, waits for the right timing. It's something I admire you in you as you just move forward with things in a really clear way. And the example I'm thinking of right now is, I'm on your mailing list or whatever. and you sent out a letter explaining all of this through your Northwest wisdom community that, this is where you are in the book process and we're going to be. And what I liked about, and you're going to self publish it, and you're in fundraising mode through your not for profit to get this book out there in the world. And it was such a good fundraising letter because it laid out all these really specific things like, okay, so I'm gonna to get a Kirkus book review, I need that. And so I'm going to, it was like, it was this really transparent sort of outlining of all the important pieces that if a publishing house isn't publishing you. That you will do in order to, have a successful self published book launch. And I was like, wow, impressed by, you were not really, okay, it's a new path forward and you're going to do it in as. And in as clear and direct a way as I've seen, your other projects. So anyway, yeah. What I want to include in this podcast, in the show notes is, I don't know if we can share that exact letter or just, I don't know if you have. fine. I want people to, anybody who wants to read more and who might,'cause I think I'm assuming you're still in fundraising mode to help do all, to do all those pieces. Yeah, because I feel invested in you raising the dollars. And I've told you that I'm going to make a contribution. Thank you. Because, we got to get this book out there. But anyway, I wouldn't feel that same way if you were just like, okay, I'm going to put this on, you have a clear plan. And so my thought was, okay, this is. You're not going to be daunted by the publishing houses and do it doing it. If anybody's going to have a successful self publish, I was like, okay, this is going to be happening. So I don't know if you feel that confidence, but I do. First off, thank you. that's so kind from your donation to being willing to share this with other people and just your spirit and your compliments. It's all just very kind of you. So thank you. And in response to your asking, yes, I think it's really important to, to have a balance between I'm trusting that this thing is great and I'm going to put in the work to do what I can to get it out there and I think there's a balance that needs to be had and I think a lot of creatives and a lot of really smart and inspirational people do the very pragmatic practical stuff. When I got out of prison, actually, while I was still in prison, I studied law. Which my book goes into, and law is very black and white, and I am not a black and white person, but I found the importance of balancing the sort of the structure of law with the creativity that is me. And I find this, it's the same way as if you want something done, you really have to sit down and what do I need to do to accomplish this? And yes, like usually a publishing, like a publisher is going to cover your reviews. They're going to cover editorial costs. They're going to cover book design. They're going to cover, a whole list, a whole myriad of things. And so for me, it was like, it's true, people do judge a book by its cover, right? So then I did the research and created relationships with people and found a, just a brilliant book designer who actually won this last year, she won one of the best covers for 2023. And so she is up there with the highest book designers. And so that's a pretty penny, right? But I know that's important for my book. Kirkus Review is it's the cream of the crop review, as I understand it. Oh, so it's 600 for a review. And as I understand it, they write about 200 words or so. And about 10 of those words is actually review. And the other is synopsis, right? So it's very like hoity toity, but it needs to get done as far as my research has shown that it really needs to be done. And then there's a couple other reviews and editorial processes and. Anyway, so I knew that I needed to write a list of all the things that are essential for getting it out there. and then the other part that I didn't mention, but it's very true is now traditional publishers, even if you're published by Penguin or random house or Scholastic, one of the huge ones, they still require you to do 80, if not 90 percent of your own marketing, that's just the world we're now in because social media, who's going to Penguin sites, looking at books, except for people who are wanting to publish with Penguin. And so they, the publishers themselves are saying this is now on you. And even when I had this book deal with this publisher, they were saying the same thing, so I thought, this isn't a burden I'm taking up because no matter which route I go. We're going to be doing that anyway. Yeah. And so promoting and marketing and all that stuff, it's its own beast and costs money too. So I just had to write down a whole list of things that I knew I needed to get done. And so that's what I did, but I really appreciate your willingness to bring that up and also just your kindness about the letter. Yeah. I think it's just really important to also let people know just where their money's going. and because we're a nonprofit and we're able to do it through the umbrella of the nonprofit, it's all tax deductible. And so that's a really cool benefit is Hey, we'll send you a donation letter and a confirmation of receipt. So all that kind of good stuff, but ultimately, yes, like any donations are going to go directly towards those things. And then, my hope is the book moves forward and gets to more people. My hope is that eventually people aren't having to pay for this stuff, right? Like money is just an energy is my belief. And so as soon as we get it out there, then like that energy comes in different forms. And so right now, yes, I'm needing that energy in the form of money to get this thing going. But my goal is to get it not only in the hands of people who are looking to heal. But also in, into prisons and into places where people have gotten out of prison and just all over. Yeah, I was going to ask about that if you feel, called to work with other incarcerated people or in that system, with the work you're doing. That's a fair question. And to be honest, no, I don't feel called to work specifically with people who have been incarcerated. I will always have empathy for people dealing with that, but my call is mostly for people who know that they want to do the healing and are looking for that safe outlet. I think that's important to me is to open that up to anyone who's yeah, I know I need to be honest with myself. I know I have wounds, I know I've got stuff to work on and. How can I do it? And so that's I have, I do have one client who was formerly incarcerated and yeah, there's, and it's a beautiful relationship and it's a beautiful, partnership in helping this person and it's also hard. It's also hard for me to relive some of that vicariously through him and make sure that I'm safe and make sure that he's safe and, I think that's important. And, But I think ultimately, it's a trust the process and I'll use spiritual language here and just say I trust the universe I do I trust that the universe is for me and I trust that this book this project is going to Get out there one way or another. so Love that. I love that. Since we're at the cusp of the new year, what, as you look into 2024, what's on the horizon? imagine, Book launch is probably a big thing, but what else is cooking in 2024 for you? Yeah, that's a great question so I have a master class that I actually just released and it's available on you to me and so the hope is that so this master class really does coincide with this the ocean inside me my book because in the book at the end of certain chapters, there are meditation sort of practices that people. Can practice and the master class. And I think it's going to be one of several, I've just done one, but, is really coincides with some of those, techniques and methods. So the hope is that, the master class is always already available, but my hope is to make that available through the book. And so I'm thinking of. Probably doing some type of QR code or something in the back of the book to where when you purchase the book, you can use the QR code and there's a coupon there that you get the discount for the masterclass. And then, Oh, I've read the book. And now I'm able to put a face to the author and communicate and now take the classes that he himself was learning through his book. so really partnering those together in a way that benefits people. And my hope is that, someone who might not know my book. Now knows it through my master class and vice versa. So somebody who isn't normally into master classes then reads my book and is oh, that sounds like something I might want to participate in and then access it that way. And so launching those things together, I think is really important, giving someone something to continue on with. And I'm, I'll just say this too, in connection with that is I'm very, I'm very intentional about connecting with readers or clients or people. So the idea is to continue that relationship. So it's not just parasocial, right? So it's not just Oh, I know him because I follow him on Instagram, or I know him because I read his book. It's, let's get to know each other and create a relationship because that's the most important thing there is whether or not you want to be involved in Northwest Wisdom or just want to know a little bit about me, I want to know a little bit about you. And so creating those relationships is really important. And so to me, it's you read my book. Great. But let's go have coffee if you're ever in Oregon and, I'll buy let's get to know each other. and that to me is the most important thing. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Yeah. I love that. Very cool. Any final note? Oh, Yeah. Anything else in 2024? That's a great question. I think, in my meditation and in my sort of embodiment practices that I try to do, still today, I'm really trusting. I'm really trusting that there is an energy opening up. And I think 2024 is going to really open up opportunities for people to do the healing and then to move into more projects that allow other people to heal as well. So I'm just trusting that opportunity, I think, and trusting the energy that it's leading us to to a place of Oh, wow, because of this thing happened and this thing happened and this thing happened. So I am really excited for just, I guess the best word is surrendering to what is and surrendering to the creative processes that I think are going to unfold in 2024. Nice. Nice. Awesome. Good. I'm so glad we had a chance that we got that I'm having a chance to just hear the latest, hear the updates. And, yeah, continue I'm continuing to be a supporter of your work, as you know. Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate it. yeah, I'm just really excited. And I'm, I do believe that this next chapter too is about connecting with other people who are, in the business of healing. And I think there's pockets all over the place and those pockets are beautiful. And I think starting to create those networks or those communities of this is what. The community that I'm in is doing and let's connect and let's create that relationship. And I think that's really important in, in moving forward. And I feel like we've done that, you and I, and, with Red Beard, like one of the greatest things that people obviously don't know, but you actually did a session with me. And I thought that was just really unique and amazing. And I learned a lot through that process and you walked me beautifully through. TRE process. TRE process. Yeah. And so it was really unique sort of comparing the TRE process to the visual meditation process, because, one is quite clearly I want to use the right term tremor, like tremors. And yeah. One is your tremor, you're shaking or you're doing tremors and with visual meditation, you're going inward, but one of the techniques that I teach in the visual meditation piece is there is quite literally a releasing that happens through the muscles, and through breath, but you're feeling these energy releases. And so again, I think, you're finding a release in different ways, but you're, but whatever it is you're releasing is the same. Yeah. No, I'm with you. That's my, that's why I've been such a modality junkie. I have a compulsion to know every road to Rome, I have to know at least a little bit about it, because, but I believe the same thing that there's a lot of ways to do. Whether it's healing or just connecting to, authentic self or embodied self and, what helps that at a given time for a given person. It was different, and so I like knowing, these different pathways and channels and I love the richness of how you both experienced and how you articulate the visual meditation. and to me, richness is a good word because it's important because it invites a person into a process that it's not holding your nose and taking some medicine, something there, there's this, the emphasis on safety, the emphasis on relationship to self, the emphasis on, visual, experiential specificity, all in my mind that has all the right ingredients to create something that's not at all superficial, but something that's, deep and, at the center of ourselves. So anyway, yeah, just resonance with how you're framing. And, I think on to like piggyback on that a little bit is realizing that yes, this visual meditation, I think for me is telling my clients, it's a doorway for you to trust, whatever creative processes come up in you that helped release it. So if the thing isn't working for you, that's okay. then go another route. I did acupuncture for a long time after getting out of prison and, a lot of times it helped. And a lot of times it was like, Whoa, there's a release. But then sometimes it didn't, and then it got to a point where it was less and less helping. And so I was needing to find other things. And so it's an important lesson that releasing trauma is as much a journey as getting to know yourself is a journey and it's a relationship. And that relationship is evolving over time. And so the thing that might help you in this chapter of your life. Might not help you in the next chapter of your life, and that's okay. And I might very well, my clients at some point might say, this isn't working. And I'll say, I know someone named Alex who might have more insight and more to offer. Let me point you in that direction. And that's really, I think important is that the, tools are always evolving. And so let's give our clients and give our relationships more tools that they can utilize. Yeah. All right. let's, I think, let's wrap on that, that good note. So yeah. Thanks so much. Yeah, thank you. And, yep, check out, hopefully the master class will be available and check that out. And then also my book publishing for is March 1st. So that's the release date 2024. yep, we will hopefully. And release. and so then when it's released, available at kind of most bookstores or through directly your website or what? Yeah, that's a great question. So you have two main modalities. These days, the self publishers, you have Ingram sparks, which actually is what most publishers, traditional publishers use and Ingram sparks is like a company that puts the books actually in the bookstores. So it'll be in bookstores probably not by March 1st, but it'll all be online March 1st and that's usually through Apple or Amazon is the big one or a Barnes and Noble. So it'll all be online March 1st and then slowly Ingram sparks starts to put them actually in bookstores. Nice. Nice. Oh. Yeah. Thanks again so much. I really appreciate it, Alex. Always, a pleasure. Thanks, RG Shore