E38 - TRE at the Fire Station ft. Captain Robert Cefoli

In this episode, we dive into the life of Captain Rob Cefoli, a distinguished member of the FDNY with nearly two decades of service. As the Director of Health and Fitness at the academy, Rob's role is pivotal in shaping the physical and mental wellbeing of firefighters. His journey takes an unexpected turn when he discovers Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises (TRE), a method that profoundly impacts his personal and professional life.       

Rob's exploration of TRE began as a means to address chronic injuries, which he later understood were manifestations of accumulated stress and trauma from his demanding career. Adopting a daily TRE routine, Rob experienced a significant improvement in his physical health, which led him to advocate for its integration within the FDNY. His narrative is not just about physical healing, but also about the journey towards emotional and mental resilience, striking a chord with anyone facing similar challenges in high-stress professions.

The episode delves into the wider implications of TRE in the firefighting community, highlighting its potential as a tool for stress management and emotional well-being. Rob's story is a testament to the power of alternative therapies in addressing the unique challenges faced by first responders. His experience with TRE not only brought about personal healing but also paved the way for a paradigm shift in how stress and trauma are addressed within the FDNY.

Tune in to this episode to hear Captain Rob Cefoli's inspiring story and learn more about how TRE is transforming the approach to health and fitness in the firefighting community. Discover the potential of this innovative exercise in managing stress and trauma, and explore its benefits for both physical and emotional well-being.

Key Highlights:

00:00 Introduction to Captain Rob Cefoli and his role in FDNY

01:40 How TRE came into Rob's life

02:56 Rob's commitment to daily TRE practice

05:20 Linking physical pain with stress and trauma

07:25 Introduction of TRE in FDNY

08:13 Dr. Bercelli's customized TRE training

09:31 TRE's impact on Rob’s well-being and family life

10:23 Reconnecting with family life

12:54 Understanding the nervous system

15:28 Home life improvements

17:29 Introducing TRE to FDNY and community

22:58 Future goals for TRE in the community

24:12 Addressing trauma in emergency services

25:17 Personal journey with TRE    

Links and Resources Mentioned:

• Rob Cefoli LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/goalcrush 

Transcript

0:00

All right. Well, I have the big pleasure and honor to be sitting down with Captain Rob Cefoli today. Rob is almost 20 year, member of the, FDNY New York Fire Department, where he serves as the Director of Health and Fitness in the academy there. And Rob and I connected because he and some other firemen have been learning TRE this past year, tension and trauma releasing exercises. And it's been making an impact, for them, personally, and then even within the station. So, this is a chance just to hear. what, you've been learning Rob from your TRE experience so far and kind of where you're heading with it. Thanks so much for taking time. No problem. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. It's been great so far. Awesome. What, station are you at today? Where are you right now? so currently, I'm working at the FAR Academy and I'm also a company commander for engine company in Brooklyn, in Williamsburg. Okay. Yep. All right. No, that's back and forth. Well, and let's not forget. So father of four and the newest one is what? Maybe 10 weeks now. Yeah. Very cool. That's been a hurdle. getting that getting back to reality after the pregnancy, right? The birth and it's just. It's a lot, it's a lot going on. Yeah. It's a lot. Awesome. Well, so tell us just a little bit about, kind of how TRE came on your radar. I think it was through, through Adrian. but yeah, what's, what was your, what was the connection? Yeah, so TRE was introduced to me personally through one of my lieutenants, a friend of mine, a colleague, Adrian Caban, he was already in the process or has taken a course in the past for a provider, and I don't, I'm not sure if he finished that or something happened with the provider, but it kind of fell to the wayside a little bit. This year, I've been dealing with some injuries. Every year, pretty much the last five years in a row, different things, not really connecting the dots, which ultimately was the stress was the root cause of everything. We all know now. And, so I got back up to the, the previous class. And Adrian was a lieutenant of mine in the unit and basically diagnosed me with stress. and that was the root cause of my issues and pain that I was having. So, we looked at a few different options and he mentioned that the trauma release exercises and, we started to do a little bit of that. Post workout, when we were training and I started to, I would say probably, and I spoke to this earlier, probably about seven to 10 days. I committed to just doing about 10 minutes a day. And it was like a 50 percent improvement in how I was feeling. What, and what was, and I'm trying to remember, was it kind of like a back injury or what was all? Yeah, I thought it was herniation to be honest. Is that how bad I was, with sleeping, with just moving, getting up and down out of chairs, getting out of the car, a lot of, pain and tension in, the lower back, in the hip girdle, just like really. No, I couldn't figure it out. And for months, I was trying to do like yoga and, foam rolling and doing like, doing all these other things and trying to figure out a way to, I had to like kind of back off training. I couldn't run. I couldn't squat. I was getting worse. And that was probably from early February. And I remember a time, a day I was working in and it really was like a rough day for me at work. And then I was like, all right, let me take a couple of days off. And normally when you do that, things start to unravel. You feel a little better, right? Take it back a notch and then you're able to move forward again. But this seemed to be something that lasted. It was not like opening up for me. And it was like week after week. And then it was like a month and then it was like two months. And I'm like, I got to get out of this, out of the firehouse. It was even hard for me to put my gear on. I couldn't get my socks on without, really manipulating myself, it was excruciating at points, sleep was going down the tubes, couldn't really sleep well, couldn't move, have young, boys and very active. And that was a problem at home as well, and just trying to move around and just be the guy I normally am, which is just, doing everything, like that's the personality I have like home or at work, I'm just constantly moving. And this basically stopped me in my tracks. I didn't want to go sick because I was out previously with a neck injury, the summer before, last year, like August. And that was a few months out. And I have a couple of bulging discs and her, I thought that was a little worse, but it wound up getting some PT and, stuff with Adrian again, helped me with some protocols and sure. Get myself back. Diagnosing that he kind of looked back and he was like, you got a lot going on. You have, you have to look back at what happened over the last few years and I'm like, hey, you know what? I got some, stress and I've had some trauma on the job throughout my career and I'm 19 years in, so you see a lot of things, you're involved in a lot of situations and we look at it from that. that lens you start to say, well, okay, this happened and that happened and I've been through this for this many years and then all of a sudden I get this injury and that injury. I know, like, well you know what? Maybe it's like all relative, so I kind went that route. I said okay, how can I address stress and in my body intention, right? Initially in the surface trauma release exercise was just there to help me feel better. It was actually making just things open up, in the body. So I can move better. I can start getting my training back in order. Cause I didn't feel. And you were saying within, what'd you say a week or two, that was 50%. Like it was like a week away. I did it maybe two, three days. And then the next week I was like, all right, I'm going to do it every day. And then after that week, it was like the weekend. And then it was like two or three more days. And I was like, wow, I could really feel a difference. And it wasn't like long sessions, it wasn't a lot of it, and it was really just a surface level knowledge, we didn't go in depth, we weren't trained yet, we didn't have any education. I just I trust my guys, and when they tell me something, that's like, even though like I'm like the tip of the spear on the unit, or the unit head, they call it, or the leader, tappings, you need help to, it's not just, I don't have all the answers, I just kind of run this unit. I have to make sure everything works. I had this position for a few years. Involved in the health and fitness unit for about 5 years. So I've dealt with candidates and other people, but like when it comes to yourself, a lot of times you're just always, given out and right. Yeah. So it's hard for us, especially as firefighters to get the help. That we need, you know, and especially with counseling and things like that. So now that the door open, I start to feel the difference, we explored a little more and this is one of the trainings that usually every year we like, all right, what do we can we train our staff on? What can we get involved with to, it'll help our membership and help the people that we deal with every day. We deal with, a lot of candidates and probationary firefighters and, we deal with our members that have injuries and stuff like that and issues and, and this time, it seems like, this is, was working for me so that I had that aha moment. So he pushes forward a little bit. We tried it out with, going a little deeper. we got in touch with Dr. Bercelli and then it kind of unfolded that way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Well and so was it in sometime in the summer? I can't remember what month, July or August or June. That's when, Dr. Bercelli came and he did. But did he spend two or three days with, a unit? Yeah, we got them in and it was, I think it was June and we had three at the record, three day intensive and it was full days. We had a small group, six of our staff. We had an EMS trainer as well from their academy that we brought in to keep synergy there because, they're dealing with similar issues on their end. And we had a great experience. Initially Dr. Bercelli had his initial plan. And then once he realized the group that he had in front of him and the knowledge level that we do have, we basically had just a more of a fine tuned daily operating tailor. He prides himself on tailoring for the particular audience that he's working with. It worked out great. It worked out really in depth sessions. We were able to get hands on. We were able to bring some people up and use the subjects. And then from that, we had about 20 people, let's say that in those three days that experienced TRE like in depth and the feedback we got was like overall overwhelmingly like a success. Now a lot of positive feedback. We have a lot of good testimonials from that. so we knew we had. What, and when, I mean, so you kind of already shared. Well, there was the physical side of, helping with that injury stuff. Did you also feel that you got some, like for you yourself? Has it been helpful from a stress reduction perspective or have there been besides just the physical injury side, have you felt any benefits from it or, in working with others? Absolutely. Yeah. I think initially, you notice things, if you're paying attention. So I started to notice just certain feelings I was having, internally, recognizing external stressors more. Recognizing when things were, would bother me physically or, if there was like a situation where I'm dealing with a certain subject or person that would be like, ah, like it almost opened up a level of understanding about what's going on in your body. Yeah. Home life was, improving, a little less snippy. What I would say is as, as in the fire service, after a certain amount of time, you're, and this is what we call with Dr. Bercelli is like, you're disconnected because of your job. Your your nervous system, pulled apart. You have to, right. You have a, two sides, your nervous system. And you have to kind of compartmentalize. Yeah. You have to, cause you can't do your job otherwise. So after a certain amount of time though, you're unable to reconnect to that if you're not doing certain things to keep it balanced. Right. And we don't do that. We don't use counseling. We don't, we're not, we were forced to do our stuff. So we have a fatal fire, we're put out for 2 weeks to counseling. Some of the stuff might not register for months. And I've been, I was in a situation like that where, counseling was not, I was like this, these people don't know what I'm connecting to what you need. So then you bury it or you do you hurt yourself, alcohol, whatever. And like, we have these issues throughout the service, cause it happens. And then we have issues at home because we're not able to, go from, fire fireman Rob to dad or husband, this is a recurring. It's a recurring theme because I think a lot of people can relate where you're cold. You're numb. You're, and that's just because you're disconnected and when you get home, you're not able to transition back. And I've gotten that over my life, you know through my wife. I'm had ex wife divorce, Like it's just yeah, you don't realize is that something going on with you? You think oh, it's just the way I am or I have to be I mean you kind of know, like I know I had to be this way because my job or it makes me this way. But you don't really understand exactly what's happening to you So once you get a little more educated, which discourse education component really hit home a lot of us. And yeah, that's what I was going to ask. Like, when, with, learning TRE, part of what we cover is, learning about the autonomic nervous system and how we can get stuck in hyper arousal sort of go, but then we can swing into the freeze response or hypo arousal where we're kind of, where we're not really available to connect in the social engagement nervous system, all the polyvagal kind of stuff, which as I hear you describing the demands, the nervous system demands of the kind of work you do, but then how the toll that it takes in a home environment, not being able to just switch back into the social engagement nervous system. But yeah, it made me wonder if that part of, if learning about the nervous system, did that sort of speak to you? Does that sort of, was that valuable, for you to kind of get a little bit of that theory? It was very valuable. it was something that was like, you knew what was going on, but you really could finally put your finger on it. If that makes sense. Like, I'm trying to be very plain speak because that's how I am, but it really was like, okay, I get what's going on in my body now. I get how, what this is going to do for me. Let me continue to do it. And as I did it, I again, emotional feelings that you don't have. Again, we're not, available in the fire house to be like, Oh, like I'm sad about this or I'm super feeling. Yeah, you just constantly just like, bringing up each other. Then you go on emergencies, you come back and like, it's a coping mechanism. It's a safe place for us because we're all in the kind of the same mode, but we can't be vulnerable. And you're not allowed to show like these emotions also, besides the, any traumas or any sleep deprivation, you have all those other things that come into play, but it's not a place that you're going to go and like, get somebody like, you're going to cry on somebody's shoulder, like, Oh, this affects me so bad, go scratch or something, like, shake it off and like make a joke and then we bury it and we bury a lot of stuff and for 19 years or 20 years, you bury it and then it's like, yeah. What do I do? And how, who am I again? And is this really me or not? So at home with young kids and even my daughter, it was a little older. She was able to connect more, like I was able to engage with them a little bit more. I was noticing It it was really like, wow, I'm actually genuinely happy about. This moment right now, rather than laughing about something and not, it's like feeling it. Yeah. Well, yeah, not I know. I don't know what I got. It's sad to say, but like, I really I want to be like that person. But like, you just you can't access it. And then you realize, well I can access it. Well, started to and I'm like, wow, that's a big difference. And I, you noticing, cause you're paying attention more. Like, how do I feel about certain things that are going on today? And am I getting stressed out? Am I getting happy? Am I, do I feel love and empathy? What are these, all these emotions that supposedly we have that you never experienced in your, like the last, 15 or 20 years? Cause they got, dismantled from your kind of pushed up. Yeah. Yeah. Now you're just this person that just kind of, as long as you can like do your tasks, you're just you're okay. Yeah. It's hard to shift. Into the other side, because you don't know if like, am I being like, is this, am I not macho now, am I not good at my job, am I not going to be tough anymore like it's that's how I perceived it. Yeah, but also at home, you're trying to be a better father and husband, because you're hearing the feedback about how nasty you are, how you're quick to yell, or you're not emotional, you don't show affection. Sure, these are all things that are part of what happens to us in the service. And I think that most people that have been on are on long enough. Anybody hearing this, they could probably attest to that or probably have gotten that from their spouses or from their family members. Like, cause you're not the same as a regular civilian yet for a certain amount of time, or if there's somebody just has, trauma in general. Like there's going to be an issue somewhere, so this is just. And this resonated because we don't talk about it and this is a way to do it without talking. Like you just have to do this. Right. It goes straight to the body and the nervous system. So, yeah, well no, so to me that was such a good description of how, after the physical sort of things, those other effects in terms of, more often feeling able to connect and those examples of being connected with your family or just, everybody, wants that, as much as possible. So that's so cool. But so as you've now introduced it a bit into the department, you've worked with the trainees and other firemen and whatnot. I sometimes think. TRE is a little bit, it's a little strange, how has it been received? How do you describe, how do you get the people's buy in to try this weird thing? Weird is the word, right? Everybody uses, that's weird. That's weird. And that's, I think we all said it in the beginning, like that was a weird experience or with that, but we had some good feedback initially from the training and through the support of the people that volunteer at night, that was a big first step for us. An open lot of eyes were able to share it with, some of the higher ups. We had opportunities to share with the fire commissioner with the chief department, chief of, the fire academy, have them understanding go through a session or 2, just random basically. And like, we had opportunities that presented and we were able to do that on the spot and, we were also fortunate to be able to be involved in a resiliency day, which was back in November. And that was set up through family assistance, and they deal with a lot of the World Trade Center. guys that are sick and their families and, getting them to and from appointments and, helping the families out, and they do a lot of that work, and there's nurses there, and there's the counseling service clinicians that were involved that day. And it was a kind of give back day and we were added a little late to that day and they want to do a fitness session. So, another opportunity I saw to use TRE in lieu of that, and we provided a session for about 25 individuals, civilian staff and, nurse nurses and clinicians it was a shot in the dark, because we like, I know how other people were affected. I can assume that they were going to get a good response, but we never had that group yet. We just, that was like the first group we did. And I know we had discussed a little bit of that and it went working out really well. I was able to introduce what TRE was on their lunch break. It was a full day event. I actually had it was 2 different therapies going on. It was like a yoga and then it was like our TRE in the afternoon and people that signed up for one swing over and it was interesting because I just told him the story of what I how I was and what I had experienced. And just said this is what you'll have when we do the TRE and we'll guide you through it. And we had about I think another six or seven that jumped into TRE and we had like a room packed with people. And again, that was another great experience. A lot of good feedback, which we will be following up with some of the CSU people in the new year and the World Trade Center nurses. And they handle different people, but a lot of the same issues with retirees. And loss of, again, if you leave this job, you lose a lot of your community, you're retired. You're not at work anymore. And in that gray area afterwards, a lot of people have issues in their, marriages and they have issues at home and they come back to see the counseling services to get help. And that's what they were relaying to us that they're getting a lot more people. Now that now than ever, a lot of people with alcohol and things of that nature and the stress of life and society changes and all the things that happened last, let's say, three, three years or so. That really, may was left a little bit upside down for a while. I look at it as also this trauma there too. We have people that have gone through that and that are now entering the fire academy. So on the flip side, all the new people are having issues of being over sympathetic systems. They have trouble breathing, multitasking. They're heightened to the point where they can fail at something very simple. It's happening more and more, so you're seeing evidence of this, the stress related impacts for your new trainees and the younger firefighters. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And with the last class that we did. We have over 300 in class. So every, seeing six to 700 a year over again. And it's just the last class, we noticed a lot more of it, especially Adrian being here, he was more aware of like these sympathetic issues and when we have an issue with a probi, we have to put them into EMS and kind of get vitals and we're looking at heart rate recovery. We're looking at heart rate and breathing issues. And, if they're breathing, adequately if they're, all sympathetic breathers. Yeah, in a, in an anxiety breathing or something. Wearing a face piece, that's going up too. So we have a lot more of the issues than we've seen in the past. And I think a lot of like, it's, if you have a, we have a sample size of society and I think that's what we're seeing now. And we have like come up with a way, I think it was a good segue into TRE. And we tried to introduce the last class at the very end is when we finished the training. This class, we're going to hopefully put it in between some of the, our download, deload weeks, which is where we do less physical training, more recovery work. And we're going to try to use that time for to introduce that in this class. And then also, workshop styles, which in February. We're doing a eight hour workshop where it was setting up for members right now. Yeah, right now it's through the office of professional development and they were the ones that helped us to get it approved. And then now we're rolling out, starting in February. So that's exciting. Yeah. Super cool. Well, so what are, your, you're obviously already making a big impact in, with the, trainees and the program that you direct, with you've exposed a number of other people to it through, the community outreach, the resiliency day. What, where else, how else do you think that. Like, how else are you hoping that TRE can serve the communities that you're involved with? Like, where might you go from here, do you think? Well internally, I think we're all, we're on track to just help our membership now, within the New York city area and our members. I think retirees would be the next, logical place to go. That's not internal to the department. And I think, honestly, once we have, the ins and outs kind of ironed out a little bit. I think we're looking to nationwide. I think that's a good place. I think we're at the forefront of most training and equipment and procedures and tactics. And you have to want, the city fire department is the largest in the country. And just understanding that, I think we're at the front of something that, can really provide relief and help for a lot of people, and families, and not just fire service, all emergency service members, EMS, PD,. We're all kind of in the same lines, and we deal with the same issues. The same traumas that we see constantly, we're exposed to a lot of the things that normal people just don't see. And if you're, like I said, if you're on long enough, it's going to take a toll on you and if you don't have a tool in your tool bag to address it, you might go to something self destructive and I've been a part of that as well in the past and it just doesn't help. And you have to make, I've made a ton of mistakes and I made a lot of, I've taken a lot of beatings on myself by just treating myself horribly. And I learned to use positive, mechanisms to kind of keep all that at bay and it's just a very, a much bigger tool that I never was able to tap into for myself. Yeah, I had relief that I wouldn't get from physical exercise. It doesn't do the same thing like that. It doesn't do the same thing. Just, eating clean and not drinking and like, sleep patterns are always disrupted. So that helps me with that as well. Yeah, I think, and then, when I was like recently going through the new baby with my wife and we had some, hard nights there., You get a little beat up and you're not training as much and then you're not doing TRE and you're not doing yoga and not doing all these, all the modalities. Your body gets backwards. And like, I, felt both sides of it where I was improving, very well on an upper trend and also when I went away from it a little bit, how I felt, so I have like now both sides of, yeah, this is real. So now I'm going back the other way, which again, were never linear. It's always ebbs and flows and great. Again, that's how it is because it never ends. You always got to continue if you want to stay in great shape and be able to manage your daily life and family and all that. So I look at it as if I feel like really, getting that tension and that stress, then I need maybe 20 minutes TRE. And that's like my new go to, if I'm going to do anything, maybe I won't train, but I'll do that, and just feel better. You just feel more at ease. You feel more relaxed. One session, even at that resiliency day and I, you have a quick 20 minute session and people have immediate relief. It's nothing like I've trained people for over 20 years and private, and in the academy get thousands of people and a workout's great and you get a good sweat and you feel good. Like, cause you get all your chemical releases, but to have that a little bit more peace, peace of mind, a little bit more relaxed body, like where the nagging pain is relieved after an hour or so, I was like, wow, like I was, that's why I was like, that was weird. But I feel great and knowing that consistent use of that tool is going to yield more results and you'll get better and better and it's not, once you know how to do it and you're acclimated and you're trained on it, it's just, it's a great tool. Yeah. Wow, super cool. Well Rob, I really appreciate you taking time just to share about your experience. What it's been like for you and how you how it can serve others in your profession. So yeah, really happy to sit down with you today. Yeah, thanks for having me and I appreciate the work you guys are doing and you know I look forward to continue our relationship and I think we can definitely impact a lot of people going forward. Awesome