Relationships Matter: Whether it's within your own organization or with external partners, maintaining strong relationships is the holy grail to success. Justin Gray points out that threading relationships across the entire organization is key to building a successful org.
If you want to be effective, you need to master curiosity and communication.
Justin highlights that there aren’t many sales and service partnerships available, which presents a huge opportunity for those who can navigate both sides of the equation.
By deeply understanding your customers' needs and creating a partner program that aligns with those needs, you can drive customer happiness and build revenue.
Highlights:
03:30 Relationships = Currency of Success
30:21 Can't be a one-man band
33:07 Relationships = referrals
34:56 Ads aren't working; the only thing that's working is trust
36:38 Partnerships must start with early sellers
39:18 It's all about WHO you know and the value of those relationships
40:44 You have to give to get
54:06 You have to be curious
01:01:12 Balancing work and life
Relationships Matter: Whether it's within your own organization or with external partners, maintaining strong relationships is the holy grail to success. Justin Gray points out that threading relationships across the entire organization is key to building a successful org.
If you want to be effective, you need to master curiosity and communication.
Justin highlights that there aren’t many sales and service partnerships available, which presents a huge opportunity for those who can navigate both sides of the equation.
By deeply understanding your customers' needs and creating a partner program that aligns with those needs, you can drive customer happiness and build revenue.
Highlights:
03:30 Relationships = Currency of Success
30:21 Can't be a one-man band
33:07 Relationships = referrals
34:56 Ads aren't working; the only thing that's working is trust
36:38 Partnerships must start with early sellers
39:18 It's all about WHO you know and the value of those relationships
40:44 You have to give to get
54:06 You have to be curious
01:01:12 Balancing work and life
Welcome to the Friends with Benefits podcast, a business podcast about revenue generating partnerships, not a podcast about business time with friends. We're your co hosting couple. I'm Jason. And I'm Sam. Welcome to the show, friends.
Jason Yarborough:Hello friends. Hey guys. Welcome back. It's great to be talking to you guys here. Uh, if you're not watching by video, it's uh, for the very first time. Sam and I are kicking off an intro by, uh, standing very closely at my desk recording this for you.
Sam Yarborough:Together, on the same
Jason Yarborough:mic. Yeah, together. So, uh, great show for you this week. We had a lot of fun with this week's interview, but, um, I want to bring something up real quick. That there's been a theme in our life over the past few days, and I thought it was interesting to talk about here for whatever reason, but Bears. We've seen six bears. Over the last, like, three days. That's more bears than I've seen the entire time that I've lived here.
Sam Yarborough:Same, and I've lived here three times as long as you.
Jason Yarborough:This is true. You have lived here a long time. You're Queen of Bozeman. But, a lot of bears, and I love the significance of bears, and like, they symbolize, like, courage and strength and virtue, and really any of that kind of stuff on this show and in our life, and so much so that we've made a fun little art project out of a bear.
Sam Yarborough:More on that later, but for those of you that are wondering... They were black bears, not grizzlies. No grizzly encounters yet. Lots were in trees. Yeah. Some were in compost piles. Not our
Jason Yarborough:own. Nope, not ours. Ours was on the side of the house. It'd be kind of weird if there was a bear in our compost pile. Yeah. So, this week's guest, he has a lot of courage and virtue. Started a company, started a couple of companies, but uh, Justin Gray. I've had the pleasure of partnering with Justin and his team a couple of times now, but this was your first interaction with him. What'd you think?
Sam Yarborough:I love today's conversation because it was a little bit different. Um, Justin, isn't your traditional partner manager per se? Not at all. Um, but he's lived it. He's seen the value of partnerships so much so that it's changed the trajectory of his career many times over. Absolutely. But even furthermore, he's now started a VC that has a super interesting take on partnerships. So much so companies in his portfolio have to have. A partner strategy. Oh, yeah, and I think that's
Jason Yarborough:incredible
Sam Yarborough:Yeah, so I mean, I think we dive into a lot of really interesting themes and topics, um, that we talk about a lot, value, trust, relationships, how those all build and drive business. But I think it's a hot take here. I think it's a, Future facing reality that we're all going to come up against that. If you don't have a successful partner strategy, you're going to be left behind.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah, a hundred percent. And like the money is following partnerships now and you know, Justin's experience in being a CEO founder is prioritized partnerships and everything. He's built, you know, some would say that he's a wait for it really putting his money where his mouth is. Yeah, he's investing in partnerships. Get it? Um, anyway, the talk around relationships was outstanding. Like, I actually, do you take notes when we record the podcast? Because I've got these note cards that I take all my notes on in every podcast. It's all right here. Yeah, I'm not that smart. I wrote down relationships equal the currency of success. And I love that, uh, take from him. And I think I'm going to use that one. But it's really true, especially in what we're saying and doing here. And he really preaches it, and he lives it, and he values it. I also really like the fact that he mentioned something about that in the, uh, final question around his, uh, superpower, if he was a packaged up action figure. Yeah, that was a real question, so. Make sure you listen to that part, because it was great. Should we get to the, uh, actual interview now?
Sam Yarborough:Let's do it. Hope you guys enjoy it. Thanks, as always, for listening. We appreciate you immensely. Enjoy the show, friends.
Jason Yarborough:Talk to you soon. Justin Gray, welcome to the show, my friend.
Justin Gray:Hey, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah, man, we're stoked for today's show, today's conversation. I think you may be one of the most interesting people in the VC world. You've proclaimed yourself as being VC curious, imperfect and unemployable, which in my opinion kind of might make a superpower for you.
Justin Gray:That's one way to frame it. Sure.
Jason Yarborough:Awesome, man. Well, we're glad to have you. So before we jump in, like tell us a little bit about what you, uh, Josh and Sean, a little superpower team you've got over there are, are building in with in revenue.
Justin Gray:Yeah. So, you know, obviously we're, we're all operators, uh, entrepreneurs. We've been, you know, building. B2B SaaS and services businesses for myself, almost 20 years. I think pretty much the same for those guys. Um, and after my last go round, so I had an exit to private equity for a, uh, B2B go to market consultancy that I sold in February of 21, did some kind of integration work, uh, with that roll up. And then just was getting more involved on the. Investment side. Anyway, I'm an LP in three different funds now at this point and saw what is, in my opinion, just a major gap within, you know, early stage startups, which we focus on on seed stage organizations, which is go to market in general. So, you know, and not just, you know, all the complex stuff that we talk about within the enterprise, but really like fundamentals and ensuring these guys can. Build a pipeline, run a pipeline, hire, you know, mature team, add some process. And so kind of combined both of those loves, um, and started kicking around the idea with those guys pretty early on. Went out and talked to a bunch of folks, you know, in the industry to try to get a feel for like, Hey, is this viable? Do we think this is going to be, you know, something that, um, that we can actually take off with? And fortunately the feedback was great. So that's exactly what we're doing. We're coupling capital allocation with. Go to market expertise at probably a much deeper level because there's, you know, and I'm not talking down on these guys at all, but like, there's, you know, VCs largely advertise that they come with a value proposition. There's even some, like, operator value prop, uh, VCs out there, but like, this is rolling up our sleeves and operating within these businesses. So we, we, we think we're pretty unique in that regard.
Jason Yarborough:I love that. And. You know, what I know about you guys and my experience in working with you is that it's not just a value prop. It's an experience you bring to the table like you actually can can back up what you say is the value prop
Justin Gray:Yeah, I was on a 1 of my port codes this morning. So, like, on a weekly basis, that translates to, like. At least 20 hours with which each of our portfolio companies, so it's it's it's pretty heavy
Jason Yarborough:awesome. Well, I don't want to get too too deep into uh, what we've got planned here, but uh Before we jump in Tell us where the uh, the name comes from. I know the backstory, but some of our listeners may not
Justin Gray:Uh, it's actually a a nod. I've been signing my emails with it for like a decade now um, which was just originally a a joke in terms of like all the crazy email signatures that happen out there, but um, you know and fundamentally like if you're talking to me for You know, longer than five minutes about a company. Like, I want to know what they're doing from a revenue perspective. I want to know what pipeline looks like. And that's, you know, when we talk to founders, like the thing that we do here consistently over and over again, it's like you guys ask totally different questions than other VCs because like, we want to go super deep in the pipeline. We want to know where it's coming from, how it's being managed, what it's generating. Um, and so we are, you know, hyper revenue focused. And we also focus on companies that. Are in revenue quite literally so we don't do any like pre revenue like precede or angel type stuff.
Jason Yarborough:Got it Love it. It's from signature to company name
Justin Gray:That's right The impetus
Sam Yarborough:Jay, what do you, what do you sign your emails with?
Jason Yarborough:Uh, mine say be great.
Sam Yarborough:Okay, not terrible.
Jason Yarborough:yeah. Not, not
Justin Gray:better than regards or you
Jason Yarborough:Yeah. Or if I'm, if I'm connecting someone, which I do a lot of, I always sign off, play nicely.
Sam Yarborough:Oh, I like
Justin Gray:good advice
Jason Yarborough:Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Yarborough:to start saying your friend with benefits.
Justin Gray:There you go.
Jason Yarborough:Not those kind of people. Yeah, anyway.
Sam Yarborough:Okay, so Justin, we really dug in on your LinkedIn and some things you've written and podcasts as we do with every guest. So it's been a pleasure to get to know you from afar. But one thing that really stood out to me, so in your manifesto, I'm going to actually just read this really quickly. Relationships are the currency of success.
Justin Gray:which is also like my favorite quote in the world. So it's it's my quote. So
Jason Yarborough:Oh,
Sam Yarborough:Let's start
Justin Gray:you something about me
Jason Yarborough:We, we may be stealing it for...
Sam Yarborough:the podcast. So, so let's just start there. Where does this come from? How'd you learn this? Um, have you had specific experiences that made this feeling so strong to be not only in your manifesto, but your favorite quote?
Justin Gray:Uh, yeah a lot of them so like like what I always like to say is like I don't deserve or I shouldn't be sitting Where I am right now. Um I am not from a privileged background. I went to an in state school. Um, I got really a really boring job out of college. I graduated with a ton of debt and credit card debt. Um, and so, like, my life could be very, very boring. I got, you know, fortunately, and this is actually a funny anecdote. So, um, I was working, like, I graduated with a degree in marketing. So I got a marketing job. I graduated literally. Um, around the time of September 11th, and so even lost the internship that I was doing, took the first job that came along, which is a terrible, um, piece of advice to offer. And I was dating, I was dating a gal at the time, and she was out with her friends 1 night and got in an argument at a bar here in Scottsdale, um, with a guy. And ultimately, he was like, Oh, we want to hire you. And she's like, No, that doesn't sound super great. Like, I like my career. And there was like a company of like five dudes, like a startup and, but she's like, my boyfriend hates his job. Um, and I did hate my job. And so I took a couple of interviews with them. It took like, almost 8 months to say yes, because it was like a very, you know, back then. This is like early 2000s, like startups and like entrepreneurism was not this glorified thing. Um, it sounded like a dead end or like a fly by night, you know, job to me. So ultimately they convinced me to come on board and I joined my first startup, um, which was like, holy, I don't know if you guys swear on this or not, but like, wow, that, that this is where this has been hiding. Um, and that totally changed the entire trajectory of my life and everything that has happened. You know, since then, that's been positive has always been because of a relationship and intro. Um, and so ultimately, I didn't mention it earlier, but that's what we look for within our port goes as well, which is, you know, do they have a budding partner ecosystem that we can then leverage, uh, you know, to help take that company in the market. So I just think, you know, it's the, it's the way that we make decisions in life. Like, if you're gonna buy something in your personal life, if you're gonna make a business decision, you're likely talking to someone else. Who has used that or gone through that same decision making process, and that's the way toe to earn trust. Um, and so I just think like it plays into every aspect of life, and it's certainly been a big, big influence in mind.
Jason Yarborough:that's, that's incredible. And I can certainly relate. I've always joked that I've had about four careers and all of them have started due to relationships in the next field, right? Went from motivational speaker to sales, to marketing, to partnerships and whatever we're in now. Right. And it's all been because of relationships and network. Um, and it's really interesting that you placed so much value. On those companies you're investing in, you mentioned, like, do they have partnerships? So in your experience, is it like, do they have partnerships or do they have a network that they can pull from? Cause, you know, if you're, if you're early stage or you're a startup company and you're thinking about this, you, and I talked to a lot of these companies as well, like they want to have a partnership. They don't have a program officially established, but you know, we've got a network. We've got people out there who like us, know us and love us and could do something really easy and quick.
Justin Gray:Mm hmm. Yeah. So I think, you know, network and like personal brand and kind of that that spider web ecosystem is always important, but I would say what we most predominantly look at is. Is there a solution complimented by others that their target client already uses? Right? And so I'll give you an example. We've got a, um, uh, an AI startup that focuses on the fleet space, like large fleets of trucks, whether it be E. V. internal combustion, whatever, but their solution is literally dependent upon a piece of technology called telematics. So, if you are Amazon, you have a large fleet of vehicles, you need to have 1 of these boxes. In that vehicle to broadcast over long distances. What's going on? Right? Like, are the shocks going to fail? Are you due for an oil change? Like. Any sort of data, because everything is a computer these days gets broadcast over the solution. And so they already had relationships with one of the largest providers. The other two relationships were kind of in talks and we saw that as a huge, you know, frankly, cheat code, um, to, to bring the company to market. And so that's an example of just like, what is the customer doing? What are they using? Who do they trust? And is our joint value proposition together that one plus one equals, you know, three, 13, whatever.
Jason Yarborough:Nice. Yeah. It makes, makes total sense. And it's funny, I've, I've had, this is my third conversation this morning around fleet management and partnerships therein. So like there's a theme to today and that's neither here nor there for the, for the podcast. But, you know, uh, one of my, my questions, you know, is that I I've known you guys for, for a while. Josh says, I think I see Josh at every conference out there and I've known Sean since his early days of sales loft. So I know you guys are very partner focused. Um, you know, your early days of lead MD to, to shift. You've been building these organizations that have a partner first mentality. Like, you know, you really. How did you start to see that turn into like, uh, you know, something you can go to market with? Yeah, from a revenue standpoint, from a go to market perspective, like, where did that really begin to click within LeadMD as you were getting that started and built into, you know, working with Marketo and the likes therein?
Justin Gray:Well, yeah, I mean, so funny. We were just talking about this as well prior to this call, but the, so you mentioned Marketo, I mean like Marketo was truly a strategic partner for lead MD, right? Like, like a, a wonderful woman who unfortunately recently passed away named Amy Carino. And I like inked a crazy deal back in the day where I was going to be reselling. Marketo technology and wrapping services around it. So this is obviously very early days of, of Marketo. So like when you logged into Marketo, like it literally looked like our brand, it looked like our look and feel, we were going to take it into kind of these tangential markets and what ultimately arose out of that go to market motion was on one side, a lot of channel conflict in terms of like selling Marketo, because if. You know, this is early marketing automation. There were two real players in the space. Um, and if you've been to their website, they were, you know, off limits for us to sell into. So we ran into that barrier pretty quickly, but what everyone wanted was the services component. They wanted help with implementation. They wanted help with. You know, running the system long term, which is where our our man services model came from. So really kind of market driven, but strategic partner enforced and even within marketa, right? Like, again, for the first 5 years, like, we were a marketa shop. So, in that timeframe, we actually did develop a relationship internally with them. And at 1 point, if you purchase marketa, there's a 40 percent chance that we were doing that implementation. Even in a white label manner. So just so many different, you know, aspects and, and, um, uh, I want to say revenue sources, but really customer relationship sources, right? Whether it was direct to market, we were bringing that, that, uh, buyer to them, whether it was coming in directly through them or whether it was just someone, you know, struggling to use the platform and kind of build up talent around what was a very budding. Now we call it Rev Ops, but back then it had no name. So
Jason Yarborough:right.
Justin Gray:all of those factors like came together really to form a rapidly growing company. And like we, we would certainly not have, have had that trajectory if I think we just would have gone, you know, to market and tried to support a different, a bunch of different providers and it kind of do that in a silo. It was truly like that close knit relationship. Where we were in their offices all the time. We were on sales calls with them. We were, you know, running quarterly and yearly contests. Like it was a very close symbiotic relationship.
Jason Yarborough:That's incredible.
Sam Yarborough:So that sounds like the Holy grail.
Jason Yarborough:But everyone's striving for.
Justin Gray:Sure.
Sam Yarborough:Can we talk about, like, rewind in that story and how you, like, what happened before that to build that relationship and get the buy in from Marketo, even if they were smaller, they're still Marketo. So like, you know, obviously I'm going to assume relationships, but can you talk about brass tacks a little bit, how you really rubber meets the road on that?
Jason Yarborough:Now, how'd you get to that point?
Justin Gray:Yeah. I think, well, the one thing I want to make sure I highlight before I forget is, you know, I was a early Marketo user. So like Bill Bench sold me a Marketo in 2006. Um, and. But definitely one of their first, like 20, 30 clients. Um, and so I had implemented the platform. I was a VP of sales and marketing for what was that startup I mentioned earlier. Ultimately, we grew that organization to a 250 million, you know, very successful entity. I had a team of people, team of marketers, team of sellers, and went through the firsthand pains of like moving from an ESP. Into a marketing automation platform where there was literally no enablement like these days, you can Google like, just like you would salesforce, right? Like, and find a ton of marketer resources. That was not the case. You got, like, some, you know, a couple hour group training on the platform. And so, like, I had seen those pains. Because you're trying to teach people something that like didn't exist 12 months prior. Um, and so that was what gave me the idea for it. Ultimately, like I sold my equity in that company and wanted to do something next. So I actually started two different orgs, but one of them was what would become lead MD. Um, and it was all based around that idea because I had talked to a lot of other organizations and they were kind of in that same. Point, right? Like we've got a big like we see the potential, but we've got a big pain and using this this platform. And there was a lot of, you know, a lot of people weren't even aware of what marketing automation was back then. So that that became the idea to also resell the technology and take that to market. But that. Process of like, getting a relationship with them just came about as a ton of hard work. And again, butted by relationships, like, have to tip a hat to Mr Craig Rosenberg. Like, I had met Craig through a very strange series of events. He was running a platform called focus. He tried to kick me off it because I was being too self promotional and we stuck up a struck up a friendship. He, his intros ultimately led me to the right people within Marketo as well as I had been a buyer. So I, I kind of went that route as well, but it was a lot of, you know, just frankly, hard work and a lot of persistence. Like, I would fly over there sometimes on announce, like, I've got this plan, like, and then fortunately, there was a show put on by Sal and Andrew over there. I'm going to space the. You remember who I'm talking about the, um, uh, they run a couple different shows and publication or did they they've sold now, but it's like content for demand. It was, um, God, I can't remember the name of the org. But anyway, like, they had a show. I also had a relationship with them. So that's how I had hooked up a meeting with Amy. Uh, when she was in town. So, you know, a lot of legwork, a lot of relationships, a lot of intros that ultimately came to fruition. Um, and then, you know, we started what, you know, ultimately became a snowball of, you know, ongoing, just co selling conversation and and again, like, we, I felt like we were part of. their organization from, from time to time, just because we spent so much time within those four walls. Um, and, and did so much work together.
Jason Yarborough:I think that's an excellent mark of a great services partner, right? Is that you really can't tell the difference between the two. And, you know, where they end is where you begin. And that's how the customer should exactly feel. And, you know, um, If... I'm just listening to this thinking, you know, you were an early stage Marketo, learned a ton, became one of their top partners. You know, in some, I'm sure you take a lot of that experience to your, your portcos, or even companies you're talking to, like, what, what advice do you give to companies that are starting now, trying to become a services provider for a, you know, a Marketo or a HubSpot or somebody else that's already busting at the seams with service providers?
Justin Gray:Yeah, I think there's a couple really important things there. First and foremost is that for some reason we take all the bad aspects of partnerships and that's what we try and copy as like an early, you know, budding organization. Like we put these agreements together
Jason Yarborough:said the thing out loud.
Justin Gray:You know, it's all this formality and all of this red tape and all this planning and joint marketing plans and business plans and quite frankly, like, the most valuable partnerships come from real results, right? Like, if I can get. One of my friendly customers and one of your friendly customers, and we can beta test, you know, you can become a design partner for me, essentially, like, here's the value. We think we can provide to your client. Here's what you provide to ours. We have, you know, we have some early customers. You guys have a ton of customers. Let's pick 1 of those each where we know we have great relationships. We're not going to screw anything up. And we can just be hyper honest and transparent about it. Like we think this is gold. Will you test this out? Right. And oftentimes there does have to be some incentive there. Like, Hey, we'll, you know, we'll, we'll drop the price a bit or whatever it happens to be. But like, and as a result, we want to use that case study to permeate this through our, through our organization. And we think we can win more business together. We think we can retain more business together as a result of this. So test it out with us. And that like. That less formal approach that that kind of, you know, again, like, just hyper transparent value forward approach is never where anyone defaults to, which is crazy. And then the other aspect is just like, be visible. Like, you have to get down into the people that matter, which are, you know, oftentimes sellers, customer support individuals could be product. If it's the technology integration, like, you have to get over there and really understand what their pains are and how you're going to influence theirs. Because, you know, company level pains are 1 thing, like, yes, everyone wants to earn more revenue. They want to retain clients. But that seller is trying to run a pipeline. They're trying to win deals. They're trying to stand out. So how am I really going to help you in that process? So oftentimes it's a multi pronged, uh, value prop and then how am I going to reward that? Hey, look what we did together. This is the ACV that we're able to accomplish. It's a multi year contract where, you know, you're creating joy ultimately. And so, like, that always leads to more trust. That always leads to better relationships. Thank you. So, you know, just doing those things that are really low altitude and, you know, at the executive level as well. Like, if you're a seed stage startup founder, like, you should be out there and just, you know, investing within that relationship. That's always what I've done. I've tried to, like, show up where other people are not like, invest what other people are not willing to. And so we try to encourage that certainly at any turn.
Sam Yarborough:There's so much to dig into what you just said and like, you know, At surface value, it's all like, yeah, duh, but you're so right. Like it's not happening at the level that it should be. And two things, I think a, you mentioned like how you got this relationship with Marketo, it was going the extra mile. It was leveraging relationships. It was taking every conversation. It was just showing up and being there. And. That's, that's so true. But then you just said, that's the same way how you grew it and how you, you know, so it's not, it's not rocket science. It's just like
Justin Gray:So let me, let me, let me give you an.
Sam Yarborough:relationships.
Justin Gray:Let me give you an important example of like, what, how that should be absolutely such a no brainer. And yet, I think it's the revs people have gone through in just doing things the same way over and over and over again. So I won't name any names here, but anyone can put these threads together. So like, as we've mentioned, like I built that ecosystem, like I, it was a thriving ecosystem. Oftentimes. With acquisition and merger, things like that, you know, can fall off what I've seen is that same thing, which was really a revenue engine, right? Like, be put through formality, be put through, you know, more of that, like enterprise. Rear process and lose that relationship. And at the same time, I've seen a lot of employees that were there at the time where we built that go out and thank God. This is almost become my, my purpose for being in business, like, seeing other people start companies and and do their own thing. They've gone out, they've created other consultancies that fill. Little niche gaps that they found along the way, and they've run the same damn playbook and all they're doing is the same thing, like, getting out there, forming personal relationships, like, standing up the winds, and they are blowing the doors off right now. And and you've got something that was like, Hey. This was a, an established relationship and ecosystem. And, and, you know, we saw this on the other side of the spectrum when Vista acquired Marketo and then when Adobe acquired Marketo, and you just have to push through those because at the end of the day, there's still people at the other end of that, even though there's. You know, this new umbrella at the top, but if you don't have that integrated throughout the ranks and everyone's not like surrounding that relationship, it dissipates super quickly because you guys know what turnover looks like in B2B SaaS. Like, you're forging these relationships daily, almost within those those walls. So if you're not doing that, it's a huge opportunity for someone else to come in and and capture those relationships. Um, and. To your point, like, you're just doing the hard thing rather than, like, running this process or the system that, you know, on paper looks like it works, but it doesn't have any heart to it.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah, there's a lot to everything you just said. One thing in particular is like, how much the relationship actually matters. And you probably, you may have experienced this, how much it mattered when Vista came in. It's no secret that when Vista comes in, things get tough. There's much higher levels of expectation, performance, things change. I've been there. We all know what that's like. However... But someone like yourself comes in, you've got a relationship, you've been providing incremental, uh, uh, instrumental value to these reps already. Like, you can continue to help support them, and, and they trust you to help them hit bigger, broader numbers when someone like Vista comes in. So when, like, their back's against the wall, you know, they can reach out to you, you can help them, and begin to take this thing to the next level. Because
Justin Gray:Well, that's the other thing, right? Like, if you're, you know, and this is where, like, that whole ecosystem concept becomes super fruitful, because if you are, again, looking through the lens of, like, who is my customer using? What are the needs that they have? How do I, you know, form my actual partner program with that as a blueprint? Now someone that purchases partner a is a good fit for Marketo and vista right like so i'm able to come in and you know These folks that now probably have larger quotas They're, you know, their jobs tougher on a day to day basis and I can show them value and say like well I've got a deal for you That's you know, even when you have a relationship There's some element of like, what have you done for me lately that that comes into this and I wish customer happiness was was the only thing that counted there. But, you know, dollars and cents certainly are. So, if you've built that ecosystem in a manner where it. Pretty much feeds itself. It really augments, you know, go to market because if I have to go out and, you know, interrupt that person, try to get their attention, win them as a customer and then refer them over to someone. It's just so much less effective than, hey, this trusted partner I'm already working with. Who do you have? That's not on Marketo. Are they, you know, who's not happy with that solution? All right, let me let me shore up this relationship. At a time where, you know, a lot of change is happening because of that acquisition. So, a lot of, you know, how we weathered those storms was again, like, what are the pain points of the folks that are at the ground level that, you know, really where our relationships reside and how do we foster those and help them get through that that pain
Jason Yarborough:Yeah, absolutely. You help them enough, then, oh, sorry, go ahead.
Sam Yarborough:Yeah, I was just going to say one thing that really stood out to me and what you just said, and for, I'm assuming other than my mom, the majority of the people listening are partner professionals. Um, It can't be a one man band. Like you, me, I could have this relationship, but it can't stop there. You have to create the flywheel internally so that your sales team, your CS team, everybody is as invested as the, in this partner, as the partnership team is, and we've seen it across the board, like partnership teams get slashed or, you know, whatever, and then it's gone. That relationship is gone. So if you as a partner professional, aren't doing your job to create that internal flywheel and build value in every org, then you're going to remain a silo and it's not gonna,
Justin Gray:Yeah, I think the, the most important thing to foster is like, you know, it sounds kind of cheesy, but like truly we're stronger together with partners involved. And actually, you know, I got to give kudos to Mark Heather. They did this in like 2017, 2018 they, you know, I did a lot of things wrong, but they did this right. Like the, they, they did some, you know, study and analysis internally and they found out that. If someone had two or more launch point partners, their propensity to turn was like zero. Um, and so they started like, you know, everyone latched on to that. Unfortunately, it wasn't services partners that they wanted to bring in. But like that, that concept. Is so critical just to integrate through the entire organization, which is like, you know, we're going to get a window into these organizations that maybe we wouldn't have. Otherwise, we're going to be able to provide value. We're going to be able to fix, you know, a gap within our own solution. We're going to be able to, you know, just again, like, surround that customer. And so, like, if you've created that edict where it's like your job, when you touch customers to understand who they're working with. Who they're working with. That's not a partner and replace that with a partner or form a partnership with that individual. Like, that has to be cultural within an organization. It certainly can't reside at the top or the bottom. It really has to be across the spectrum.
Jason Yarborough:What, what's your opinion on, kind of like, where the, where the market's at right now? Right, I have this concept that all these layoffs and rifts and whatever you want to call it are creating a massive level of trust attrition. Right, so as you, you're just spending all of your energy working, working, working to build such a great relationship with someone like Marketo, and then all of a sudden you're just like, eh, we can do it without that team, that team's gone, and it's no longer like that level of priority, like, what's your opinion on how that impacts that partnership when you've worked so hard to be one of those two launch point partners?
Justin Gray:Well, I think there's another side of that coin as well. Right? Like, when someone leaves an organization. Chances are they join another organization as well. And I've got more customer relationships through attrition than anything else, um, across the year. So, like, there's definitely a, you know, something at the end of that rainbow in terms of, like, hey, I'm going to lose my relationships with that organization. Like, certainly possible, but not if you're doing what what we just. Talked about right, which is like truly threading across that organization and ensuring that you're not single threaded in any of those areas And I think it also challenges people to get out of like there's a lot of sales partnerships out there There's a lot of services partnerships out there. There aren't a lot of sales and services partnerships out there, right? like so if you're crossing both sides of that business if you're visible and and and and You know integrated with the executive team If you're talking to the product team, right? Like you just, you, you, you lower that ability or that potential exponentially. Um, so I think it really is a call to action to ensure that that is something you're not setting yourself up for, because like what's happening in the market right now is. People are not buying net new technology off a webinar or off a form fill. Like they're buying it off a referral. And the reason they're doing that is like hyper value is the only thing winning. Like you have to be able to be something that's solving a big problem or acquiring new revenue that you can point to. And the best way to find that out is talking to someone else who's using it. Right. So I do think like the entire, you know, just Massive attention vacuum that we've seen towards partner ecosystems recently is because none of the other crap that we thought was working is actually is working any longer. Right? Like and online and average digital ads. Those were all new for a long time, and so for a long time, it was chasing that that latest thing. And those attention cycles got smaller and smaller over time, but there was still new things that we could do to attract buyers and say, like, look at us, it's something new nowadays. It's like, no, the only thing that's winning right now really is is trust. And so I don't think it's any great mystery on why partner ecosystems are getting so much attention. Whether people can actually embrace what that truly means is is yet to be seen
Sam Yarborough:Yeah, I want to go, but you talked about how it has to be cultural and I felt triggered by that. I feel like a lot of our other listeners probably did because As somebody who sits in a partner seat and maybe it's like starting out or building up, like it cannot be a one man band and you have to have buy in from your whole org, otherwise it's, you know, I, I think that's really interesting. So coming full circle a little bit on that, um, a few episodes ago, we talked to Sangram and he was talking about founders who are building companies, you know, the traditional. Method is you hire sales, then you hire marketing, you know, product is in there somewhere. And then over there is partnerships. Um, I've read some of your stuff. You have a lot of thoughts and experience on building sales teams. So, and clearly you understand partnerships in your mind. How should this all come together for someone who's just starting out?
Justin Gray:Yeah, I I squarely don't think partnerships can start with the hire of a partner team, right? Like it has to start in those early sellers and like we had this conversation almost daily with with aes that we Are hiring and have hired it's like if I showed you a path To a buyer that was 50 times more effective. Wouldn't you take it right? Like it's, it's the Glengarry leads, right? Like that's what partnerships is. You're going to have to invest some time that is not deal focused in order to get there. And I think that's the hump that, that folks struggle to get over because yeah, you have to have, and we're doing this for one of our port codes right now. Actually, Josh is running the cycle. Like. We have to be willing to sell them to indoctrinate them on our value proposition to indoctrinate them on the need for their solution within our customer base. We have to design that value prop. And then we have to do exactly what I said earlier on. Like, we have to find a couple of friendlies. And we have to bolster this with, with real world proof. Um, and we're going through that process right now. And a lot of times what you see is, you know, with those early sellers, like they're, you know, obviously they're interested in what marketing can generate or, or what relationships the CEO has, but you've got to create that, that understanding that. A partner source lead, because you've created a partner ecosystem in the right way is going to be just as valuable as a CEO referral and build that into that team early so that when you do have so many partners and so much complexity that you have to bring in a partnership team with marketing and product and and go to market, they're inheriting that rather than trying to push it. Down the other way within the organization, but that's another cheat code there, right? Like, I don't have to overcome all this past bad behavior to make this work. Now, a lot of people are in that seat, right? Because now they're trying to figure things out top lines, not growing like it was before. And now we've got to change something and do it. I think that's the much harder. You know, uh, and to approach things from rather than the startup side. There's, there's a huge opportunity there to get it right from the, from the get go.
Sam Yarborough:Okay, so call out partner people. The goal is to go work for Justin's port co companies,
Justin Gray:Well, that, that's something that everyone always used to ask me, like. You know, market VPs and marketing CMOs. Like, what if your CEO doesn't believe in marketing? And like, my answer was like, don't work there. Like I would have the same advice for someone looking for a, you know, a partner role, it's like you have to ensure that that organization believes in it, um, or you're going to be butting your head against the wall and it's not going to perform. So, you know, that doesn't bode well for, for someone in that role longterm anyway.
Jason Yarborough:And there's a lot of good questions asked within, within, like those that are seeking, right? Like, I like what you're talking about, even before you build a partner program. It's like instill the value of relationships. It's kind of the near bound effect that, that Isaac and team talk about, right? It's like, it's about who you know, right? And how are you, you know, working with those who? And how are you valuing those relationships from, you know, the revenue perspective and the relationship perspective? And if you're kind of on that quest for a new job. You know, you can begin asking, like, what value do you place on relationships and network within your sales cycles and how are you valuing that? You know, I talk to, you know,
Justin Gray:Yeah. And does your sales team know who your partners are? Right? Like that, that answer alone will, will probably, you know, give you a lot of insight in terms of like, how do you engage partners? And it's like, well, I don't know. We, we call it the partner team when someone asks and they give us someone right. Like that, that's the historic way that that's been done. And that's again, just so backwards.
Jason Yarborough:yeah, I totally agree. I've been there and had to train to that, enable that, so it's always kind of fascinating when you get in and people don't really understand, like, even the simple motions around, like, How to tap into one of your co workers LinkedIn network. Like, it's there for the taking. You work for the same company. I'm like, by all means, like, here, let me serve up this silver platter for you. We have some relationships. And they're like, what?
Justin Gray:Well, that's a great point as well. Like, and that gets back to like the value prop and like the, You have to give to get like, that's like, should be my new mantra. And it's again, so backwards in terms of how this has been done in the past. But like, I get so many so much outreach. It's like, oh, I saw you're connected to this person. Can you provide an intro? It's like, I could, but what are you providing them? Right? Like, this is my relationship. It's, it's something. That I place a huge amount of value and so like, if you've got something that's going to help them, absolutely, but like, give me, like, what research have you done on them? Like, do you know they're struggling with this? Um, because of all you want is, you know, hey, go, go talk to my network. Like, you're not going to maintain the value of that network for very long.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah, I've gotten more than comfortable in saying no, it's just not there. Give me something better to give them. Like, you know, let me give them a steak versus a, you know, a beef
Justin Gray:Right. And then people are going to come to you because they know that you, you know, make great connections, right? Like, I'm sure we've all gotten email where it's like, shit, now I've got. Yeah. Some BS meeting that I've got to take because it came through an intro, but there's no path forward here whatsoever. Like the bit, and I, another shout out to Craig on this. He was on our podcast talking about this. Like when Craig provides an intro, I know it's going to be a great intro and it's already been pre vetted and it's something that, you know, I'm at least going to be interested in. Like the, if you build your personal brand around that concept, that's invaluable, you know, based on what's happened with LinkedIn these days.
Sam Yarborough:So true.
Jason Yarborough:now I want to get an intro from Craig to see what that's like. So,
Justin Gray:It's, it's great.
Jason Yarborough:um, along these lines, like how, how are you guys ensuring the companies that you're, you're working with and bringing on board are, are actually the right ones to, um, To build this level in trust and relationships with, I'm sure it's more than just like, you got a partner program, cool, right? But no, like, how important is the relationship with your portcos and how do you ensure that they're the right ones?
Justin Gray:Yeah. I mean, again, it, it really does come down to knowing their customer, right? Like that partner, that potential relationship has to be driven by someone that already has the trust of, of that target buyer. And so we do a ton of customer interview process. We like we've talked to. I think every customer within our portcos to date, you know, prior to making an investment because we want to know what else are you using? Do you know, are you finding value in it? Uh, would you be open to, you know, combining that with the solution that looks like this, right? Like you you want to know that that's rooted in the customer And I got, um, in a bit of an argument the other day on, on LinkedIn with, uh, Mr. Jared Fuller, because he put up something about IPP and ideal partner profile. And it was BS. And I was like, well, what you're describing is BS. Like you're describing IPP as like something that the partner team came up with, you know, in a, in a closet and said like, Oh, this is the best partners. Like if that's driven by the customer that flips that totally on its head. And so like just knowing the buyers of our portcos and then, Also, from a hiring perspective, like the most important thing and also strangely a really rare thing, like we're hiring for a head of sales right now. And so, like, we've had a ton of conversations, like, you know, show me your methodology. Show me what you've done in the past. How have you created success? And a lot of when you get the partnerships, it's like, well, we had a partner team for that. Um, actually, we'd love to lean on you guys as expertise in this area. It's like, that's the kiss of death. Like if you haven't, if you can't demonstrate that you can perpetuate what we want within these organizations, you're not going to be a great hire. So it gets back to that cultural trigger from before, which is like, you have to build teams that are going to be able to work within this playground, right? Like they, they understand the value even in their personal lives and they can see the path to success there rather than like, you know, uh, fighting against the, the wind all day long.
Sam Yarborough:Okay, so this is coming full circle here. I read another thing of yours that like made me cringe because I felt it in my bones. But it's coming full circle with like building trust, building those teams, creating this flywheel. So I'm going to read it really quickly. Just as it kills you to watch your child fly headfirst over a set of handlebars into a ravine, there's going to be a ton of pain involved in placing your cherished prospects, pipeline, and company reputation into the hands of an account executive fresh out of the wrapper. If you don't let them fail, get skinned up, and then put themselves back on that bike, you're never going to see them become what you truly need them to be. Oh my god, I have had so many leads that as a partner team we have nurtured over and over, and then the salesperson's like, give it to the new guy. How do you, I mean, help us get over this? Like, A, we're talking about You know, cherishing those intros that we've built, creating that trust. Um, and this kind of goes against that in some forms, but you do have to build your team. Can you talk us
Justin Gray:Well, I mean, there's no substitute for, for great hiring, right? Like, so we're, we're kind of, there's some undercurrent of assumption there that like new people are terrible. Um, like you've, you've got to, you've got to, you know, like, and I think within this market environment, it's, you know, just a double down and double click on this, like you have to be really intentional. In terms of how you're hiring and, you know, by the time you bring someone on board, like that should feel like a very trusted relationship in and of itself. Um, and so, but I'll give you an example of, like, why I feel so strongly about this. So, like, you know, we mentioned Mr Josh Wagner already, um, Josh's 1st day. I sent him out. to Marketo and and sat because there was a show going on. I said, you're going to the show. I want you to go to Marketo. You meet with this person, this person, this person. And, you know, obviously there was training enablement that we had gone through even prior to that, that start date. And fortunately, Josh was one of my clients prior to bringing him on. Cause that's often how I hire, but his first day was not in our office. It was. In our biggest partner and meeting with, I think, three potential prospects. And so, you know, I probably wouldn't have done that level of, of, you know, pushing them out of the nest if I hadn't had a large track record with that individual, but I might've gone with them, but still I would have sent them out into the, in, into that, um, that battlefield, because there's so, I I've seen it happen over and over again, where it's like, Oh, we brought in this new rep. And this happens in early stage a lot where you've got founder led selling that you're trying to scale out and do a sales team. It's like, all right, well tell me, you know, three months into the process. Are you divorced of, you know, early stage calls at this point? No, I'm still doing all the discos with so and so. And it's like, no, like you can't do that because someone's obviously going to talk to the CEO. Like you're, you're going to be put in that position where you're the authority and that now you've got the lowly salesperson on the call, uh, with that individual and everyone just wants to talk to, you know, the subject matter experts. So like you have to position your sellers as subject matter experts. And I don't think you can do that with mom or dad. I'd like. You know on the call taking taking away that that position so like you
Sam Yarborough:be a helicopter parent.
Justin Gray:exactly uh, and so yeah, it's also the quickest way to find out if someone's gonna gonna, you know, work out or or not, but like hopefully if you've gone through a Decent amount of rigor within hiring i've seen so much be learned by those those conversations And customers is another great You know, cheat here as well, like just, you know, bringing on new sellers and having them talk to customers and really do deep discovery like they were in a sales process. Like, tell me what you like about us, what you don't, where are your pain points? You know, if we were to implement a feature, what would it be? Right? Like, there's so much learning that comes from those conversations, but just will never come if you're wrapping them in cellophane the entire time.
Sam Yarborough:I love that. I mean, use your customers as training ground for discovery. Then it's a win win. Your customers feel seen and heard your sales team's learning. You get valuable information. That's.
Justin Gray:The two things I love to train a sales rep. One is that the other one is secret shop my competitors. Like before you're on the website, before you're on LinkedIn, like, I want you secret shopping our competitors and you tell me what you liked about that process, what you didn't, so on and so forth. Like we ran years of secret shopping in that regard.
Jason Yarborough:That's a pretty strong move. I actually like
Justin Gray:I think it was only got discovered like once, I think. And I got like a ping from the CEO who I knew it was like, Hey, we took a
Jason Yarborough:I mean, that's, that's a pretty good percentage. Then you've got, you've got people out there, you know, learning who their competitors are,
Justin Gray:got several proposals off a first call.
Jason Yarborough:So you just talked about maybe things to train on. And we're talking a lot about trust here. I know that you've got this mentality around like shepherding team members, you know, to the partner mentality and how that leads them to a role of consultant. So back to what we were just talking about, you've got this new per new salesperson in the role. You're expecting them to have this, you know, level of competency to work with partners, but you know, um, if they don't have that level of competency, do you believe that can be trained in, in what steps do you need to take to do so?
Justin Gray:Yeah, I hate to beat the dead horse, but like a lot of that does go into hiring. Like I, I look for folks that like, you know, even in the sales role, like in their past, they wear a lot of hats, you know, uh, I love, you know, it's a strange thing to like, but like, I like people that like become like the little mini it person within their organization. Like someone's computer doesn't work. And they're the person that gets called over to help remedy it. Like little windows like that will tell you if someone like. Can learn stuff and like, apply it quickly. Um, but I mean, that's the, the goal every time, right? Like, is to no longer be viewed as a salesperson and to be viewed as, you know, at least a sales engineer or consultant. So, when they can really kind of. Put those pieces together like, Oh, have you talked with, you know, so and so they provide a great solution that would help you with that, you know, even if it's not within your four walls. Um, and, you know, again, being in the services business, we used to have a huge leg up in this, this regard. Like, my sales team also sat next to one of our pods of consultants. So they get to hear those back when we were all in offices. Um, you get to hear those conversations on a daily basis. A lot of times they would say, like, Oh, Well. You know, we learned so much more just by sitting by, you know, so and so and listening to their calls all day long. Like it really informed our, our, our net new conversations. I think if you're in a software org, the same thing happens in customer success, right? Like, what are people raving fans of? What are they, what are they, you know, seeing pains or friction around? And you can use that to weave in the, um, those sales conversations, certainly from a partner perspective. That just opens up a whole new level, right? Like, because again, it's the same buyer. It's the same buyer that's buying your stuff, but like, you get to see them in a different, you know, realm, a different world. They're buying data that day or they're buying, you know, content, whatever it happens to be. Like, if you can put them out and get them in those environments and those ecosystems, like, I think that's, that's literally gold. So we did a lot of that as well with. Hey, we're going to send, you know, two reps out to your office, you know, they're just there to consume, learn more about your product, but they'd love to, you know, shadow some customer calls, shadow, some prospect calls. Um, and the more you can get someone who's inherently bent in this direction to where. They want to provide value, whether that's value that we provide or just, you know, Hey, have you met so and so? Oh, you're hiring. Great. I know someone who's on the market, right? Like, Oh, I didn't know, you know, you were looking at that type of, uh, you know, problem or solution. Let me introduce you to so and so the more you can be that traffic cop and that, um, you know, just like hub in that, that hub and spoke model, um, is, is so valuable as a seller. That's, that's what changes that perception. So anytime you can give them access. Yes. To where someone's guards are enough that you're selling them something, uh, which I think, you know, shows conferences, other people's cycles, partners, customer success. Um, it's all gravy in that regard.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah, the, the value that, that expands across the, that opportunity to, to be a partner. So it's, it's when, you know, hire for that person, but also not be afraid to toss them into the fire to see kind of how much of a value seller they really are.
Justin Gray:Totally.
Sam Yarborough:The other red thread I just heard from what you were talking about is genuine curiosity. It's just like not going, you know, we talked about this with Jill in one of our previous episodes about like, it can't be about you. Um, that's where the walls go up. It has to be about them, what they're trying to accomplish in all assets. Like you just talked about, you're hiring, you're growing, your business is changing. What does that mean for your role? Like ask more questions, always
Justin Gray:Yeah. And I mean, like, you'd be surprised at how uncurious, you know, a lot of people are, right? Like, it's like if you're operating, and this is what I think a lot of sellers are just. Terrible at this, like, what do you do to learn about the space that you're operating? And where do you go? What are you reading? You know, who are the people that you're following on on linkedin or other channels? Right? Um, you know, tell me something that, uh, you know, uh, whether it be an outbound effort, or just a go to market effort that you constructed that was not sponsored by the company, you know, you'll get these blank stares back and it's like, dude, like, you worked at this place for 4 years, like, and you never ran something. Out of your own imagination. So yeah, unfortunately, again, a lot of it comes down to hiring, but I think there's a lot of ways that you can. You know, kind of uncover those, those nuggets and, um, and ensure that you've got at least a better propensity for success there.
Jason Yarborough:So along the lines of curiosity, like, do you believe that that's something that can be taught or is that just something that's innate?
Justin Gray:No, that's 100 percent innate. I've never seen anyone get taught curiosity. I've never seen anyone get taught. Um, like, it goes back to, like, yeah, did you take clocks apart as a kid? Like, did you, you know, write your own computer program? Like, what did you do that? Just when you're not in the environment where. You're kind of being forced to learn. Like, do you like, it's like, can you teach someone to read? Certainly. Can you teach them to have a passion for reading? No, you know what I mean? So it really comes down to your like personal passions. Um, and, and again, a lot of those things translate into. These roles were, you know, as a seller, your entire job is to be curious and to discover.
Jason Yarborough:Absolutely.
Sam Yarborough:Okay, so speaking of being curious and asking more questions, I have one. Um, Farming in the sticks. You have got to tell us what goes down in rural Missouri. But
Justin Gray:uh, hemp farming goes down in, in rural Missouri. Uh, so like, yeah, I mean, I come from a family of entrepreneurial and curious people myself. And so strangely, like my grandfather, like all my mother's family is, is from Missouri. My dad's from Illinois, so not that far from one another, but they met in Arizona strangely. Um, but so my grandfather and his son land back there. He gave. a parcel to each of his Children. Uh, so my mom had this one, you know, uh, like 100 acres or something like that. They wanted a different one. So they bought what is now Lisenberry Farms. Um, and they bought that in like the nineties. And then my parents built their dream home back there and then decided they didn't want to move back to Missouri. But still, we had all this farmland. And so when 2008 happened, which is like the big, you know, building crisis, obviously, my dad's a custom home builder. And so he said, like, I want to take, like, a year off and, like, whether the storm, let's actually do something back on on that land. So we turn that into certified organic farmland where we've got about 130 plus acres. And so in the tillable land, we did regular. Field crops, so, uh, corn, wheat and soy. And then we put in a big high tunnel, which is like leafy greens and tomatoes and stuff like that that are great to eat. But over 3 years, we certified that land is as organic. So then we had that for like, a decade. And then finally, all this, you know, T. H. C. and C. B. D. wave came around, which is kind of. Something that was always in the back of our minds. And so Missouri legalized hemp, uh, which is, you know, CBD or THC below 0. 03%. Um, and can be used for textiles and a bunch of stuff. And so we decided to convert, um, a portion of the land over to grow hemp. And so we grow for what is known as the CBG cannabinoid, uh, which is very much like CBD, which I'm sure. Probably by now, everyone's heard of, um, which is like numerous health benefits, anti inflammation, pain, uh, pain management, all those good stuff, but C. B. G. has all that and more, but a lower, um, T. H. C. propensity. And so basically, you can get higher levels without risking. Uh, going over the like hot crop level, uh, by having too much t h c. So long-winded explanation, but, um, more kind of a, a hobby, hobby farm certainly. But, uh, a fun thing to experiment with. It's always interesting to try to hire rural laborers in Missouri, from Arizona. Um, and so that was a fun experiment in and of itself.
Jason Yarborough:This is, this is one of those parts where I think, like, this is what makes you one of the more interesting people in VC. Not only do you have a unique approach to how you work with your portcos, but you got a freaking organic hemp farm in Missouri. Like, how often are you out there, you know, getting your hands
Justin Gray:I'll be back there. Yeah, I mean, like, so no, like hemp has to be at least at the size where it has to be, uh, uh, you know, hand farmed essentially. So, like, all the, all the, um, uh, you know, like, the, the, the sewing process as well as the harvesting, harvesting processes is pretty much all done by hand. There are some implements that we've actually created to help in that process. But, um, so. You know, farming is actually more hands off than most people assume, because literally you're planting for like a month and you're harvesting for like 3 weeks. Um, and
Sam Yarborough:those times are pretty manual.
Justin Gray:Yes, correct. Very, very, very intensive times. Um, and so I will be back there actually for Thanksgiving, which is post harvest. But I'm normally back there about once a year to answer your question. But we'll take the whole family, um, this year do pay rides and and all that stuff and hopefully introduce them to, uh, you know, rule living, which is certainly not what we have here. It's got still
Sam Yarborough:Man, I was like proud of my six tomatoes this year.
Justin Gray:Tomatoes are really, really good. Like you don't realize how bad store bought tomatoes are, even like, you know, whole foods, sprouts, whatever, like still really bad, like farmers markets and stuff that's been, you know, grown on an actual organic farm is just so top notch.
Sam Yarborough:Super quick aside, I just pulled more carrots. They are so sweet. And I've never like, it's unbelievable. I've never tasted a carrot like
Justin Gray:well, carrots also don't look like carrots. You
Jason Yarborough:Not at all, yeah.
Justin Gray:orange, you know, very straight, very long carrot that we know is not, you know, what most carrots look like. Same thing. Like, there are, you know, dozens, if not hundreds of varieties of of every vegetable that we think looks like something that looks much uglier and tastes a lot better.
Sam Yarborough:No doubt. Well, we should have another one to talk about health and wellness and diet. Cause now I have a hundred more questions.
Jason Yarborough:When does the friends of InRevenue get to come out to the farm and hang out, take some hay rides and pull some organic hemp?
Justin Gray:Anytime we'll do a retreat, you just don't want to go to Missouri in the winter or the summer. So spring and fall. great times to visit.
Jason Yarborough:in for the fall, yeah.
Justin Gray:Yep. There you go.
Jason Yarborough:So, we'll bring this plane in for a landing. you, you talk a little bit about your family on LinkedIn and your posts. It's very much a part of what drives you. So you know, like as a husband and father myself, like always curious to know how other men and high performers are, are balancing their work life in your case, uh, entrepreneur, you know, while also how are you balancing your time between entrepreneur, husband, father, farmer, all the things you're doing.
Justin Gray:Yeah, I would say, you know, like, the biggest change, you know, so I've got 2 kids. I've got a 4 year old daughter and 6 year old son and when my son was born, like, the biggest fundamental change that I went through is I stopped working evenings. Other than that, things really haven't changed that much. Like, I, I am naturally very ADD and how I work. So, like, if I need to go do something, you know, at noon, I'm going to go do it. Right? Like, I'm going to make up for that on the other side. And I, everyone always asks, like, what's the. The secret to finding a balance. I think just transparency is the secret to finding a balance. Like my wife and I are absolute calendar whores. Like, like literally everything is calendar. Like if we're going to lunch, it will be on the calendar. Um, we probably have 10 to 15 meeting invites on a daily basis. Just on normal life stuff. She's taking the kids to school. If I'm doing, you know, I've got a meeting and appointment, like she has access, access to my calendar in the evenings. It's like, hey, what's going on tomorrow? We kind of run down the day and so on. Um, and, and I just give a ton of credit to her quite frankly, like she knows what has to get done and, you know, like she's very, very good about. Hey, if I can't make something like I tried to give her as much notice for travel as possible, which I'm really bad at. So, like, I just told her, I'm flying next week. Um, but honestly, she's just really great about, like, hey, you can't miss this and okay, that's fine. You know, like, that's that's less important. But yesterday I went to a parent teacher conferences. 2. 30 PM. So, um, I think it's all about expectations across the board. Um, and also knowing that like, hey, this is our livelihood. Um, there's some things that can't get moved, but like, I will do my best to move anything that I possibly can
Jason Yarborough:Nice. I can, Sam, I can feel you in the room over, uh, asking me to take note about calendar and everything. So good. Yeah,
Justin Gray:and to do app as well. So, unfortunately, like, we used to use this other app called wonder list that got bought by Microsoft. So now it's just called to do. Um, but we do a lot of that stuff. Like, oh, don't forget that. Like, this is what you have to do, you know, this weekend, tomorrow, whatever it happens to be.
Jason Yarborough:Oh,
Sam Yarborough:I love that too, because it takes all conflict out. It's like, write it down, it's on the paper, and then there's no like, I've told you seven times.
Justin Gray:me, that's the retort. It's on the calendar.
Jason Yarborough:I feel like I'm going to get a stern talking to after that. So
Sam Yarborough:Or just an app request.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah, except
Justin Gray:mainly I just stopped working after 6 p. m. when at all possible because I used to work, you know, almost every single night. I do dive in on weekends ever, you know, as necessary. But, you know, I just try to be as flexible as possible.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah. Ours are four and two. So they're working in the evenings
Justin Gray:in the, you're in the same, same boat.
Jason Yarborough:So after bedtime, if we're not too exhausted, but yeah, kind of get that. We pick them up at four 35 or we're done till bedtime. And that is, you know, try to keep that as strict as possible. All right. So let's, let's bring this in. We like to end with a little fun question. I'm gonna try something new out with you. Um, let's say, you know, Justin Gray. He's an, he's an action figure that's packaged and sold. And, uh, you know, to make it relevant to our time and toys are us these days, Amazon, uh, and to make it, you know, relevant to the podcast. Like what benefit are you coming is coming with you in that package, AKA, you know, what, what tool weapon or what would benefit does Justin Gray come with the
Justin Gray:Yeah. Unfortunately, I think I would probably come with about 25 other action figures because like truly believe, you know, like my, my main benefit is, is connecting people. It's, uh, I guess if I want to keep this analogy going, like, it's the super troop, um, you know, behind what I do. So, like, I, I consider that to be my superpower. It's like, oh, you need to talk to so and so, you know what I mean? Yeah, sure. I can be a Magneto or what have you. But, uh, I, I, I think, you know, like, just knowing. My own limitations. Like I like to know like, Oh yeah, I can help you with that. No, you should actually go talk to this, this other person. So I'll, I'll bring the troop with me.
Sam Yarborough:There is true power in
Jason Yarborough:Yeah. Your superpower is seeing. Seeing the benefit in others and being able to connect those benefits. I
Justin Gray:The relationship Ray,
Jason Yarborough:Yeah. It's
Sam Yarborough:Trademark that.
Jason Yarborough:Yeah. It's good.
Sam Yarborough:Well, Justin, this has been tremendous. As, as we always end, I have so many more questions, so I hope we get the opportunity to chat again, but thank you so much for your time. Friends, thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.
Jason Yarborough:See y'all.
Um, Uh, Uh, Uh, Um, Uh, Um, Uh, Um,