How to Lead from Your 'Way of Being' with Kelly Ramirez

Creating impactful leadership starts with understanding and evolving your own way of being.

This week, we’re joined by Kelly Ramirez, an executive coach and founder of Elemental Leadership, a coaching practice focused on helping leaders unlock their full potential. Kelly’s career has been shaped by her passion for helping individuals and organizations overcome personal and professional barriers, and today she’s sharing insights on how leaders can reframe their mindset to drive more meaningful outcomes.

In this conversation, we explore the power of ontological coaching, why emotional awareness is essential for effective leadership, and how embracing discomfort can lead to transformational growth. Kelly shares how leaders can move beyond tactical decisions and build a deeper connection with their teams by shifting their way of being.

What you’ll learn:

• Why embracing discomfort can be a powerful tool for growth and overcoming limitations
• How ontological coaching can transform leadership by focusing on your way of being
• The role emotional awareness plays in effective decision-making and leadership presence

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:28) Celebrating podcast milestones and successes

(04:50) Epic adventures: personal growth beyond business

(10:42) What is ontological coaching and how does it transform leadership

(14:17) Client stories: real-life impact of coaching

(31:45) The power of self-observation in leadership

(32:11) Understanding your default mood and its influence

(34:44) Neuroplasticity: rewiring your brain for growth

(36:22) Challenging yourself for greater impact and leadership

(36:47) Easy vs. ease: finding flow in leadership

(39:25) Identifying challenges and finding solutions

(44:49) Making difficult decisions as a leader

Connect with Kelly Ramirez: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyramirezelemental/ 

Check out Elemental Leadership: https://welcometoelemental.com/ 

Check out Arcadia: https://www.BeArcadia.com  

Connect with Sam Yarborough: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-yarborough/ 

Connect with Jason Yarborough: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yarby/ 

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius

https://www.shareyourgenius.com 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kelly Ramirez: one of the things that came up over conversations, right, that I think we can all relate to, is like one of the fears I made the wrong decision. Nobody's gonna like it. People are gonna leave or they're gonna argue with me. So, we spend some time, right? Noticing, well, when you anticipate that, if that's a story, how are you showing up for the conversation? 

[00:00:44] Sam Yarborough: ​ hello friends. 

[00:00:46] Jason Yarborough: Hi. Welcome. 

[00:00:47] Sam Yarborough: This is welcome, 

[00:00:47] Jason Yarborough: podcasters 

[00:00:49] Sam Yarborough: a very special episode because 

[00:00:52] Jason Yarborough: for many reasons. 

[00:00:54] Sam Yarborough: Many reasons. 

[00:00:55] Jason Yarborough: They're all special. 

[00:00:56] Sam Yarborough: One of the main reasons this is special is, is. We are in person 

[00:01:02] Jason Yarborough: in the studio. 

[00:01:03] Sam Yarborough: A studio for the first time ever, 

[00:01:06] Jason Yarborough: we're, we're in a kiln, coworking space.

[00:01:09] Sam Yarborough: Yes. 

[00:01:09] Jason Yarborough: Big coworking, uh, franchise out here in the west. 

[00:01:13] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:13] Jason Yarborough: Maybe some of you working out of one 

[00:01:15] Sam Yarborough: big fans. They are supporting a lot of things that we're doing these days and they have a podcast studio, so we're taking advantage and recording in person. Yeah. Not only. Each other, but our guests today.

[00:01:26] Jason Yarborough: Yeah, 

[00:01:26] Sam Yarborough: that  was 

[00:01:26] Jason Yarborough: cool. That was, that was a big one too. 

[00:01:28] Sam Yarborough: You know what else I just learned 

[00:01:30] Jason Yarborough: just now in this moment, 

[00:01:32] Sam Yarborough: well, earlier today. 

[00:01:33] Jason Yarborough: Oh no, 

[00:01:34] Sam Yarborough: I was listening to a new podcast that I'm really a fan of. Not all business. Check it out. 

[00:01:40] Jason Yarborough: Okay. 

[00:01:40] Sam Yarborough: And they were saying that they've recorded 21 episodes. Which means they're in the top 1% of our podcasts.

[00:01:47] Jason Yarborough: Oh yeah. Most podcasts don't make us past episode three 

[00:01:51] Sam Yarborough: I, what are we at? I don't even know. 

[00:01:52] Jason Yarborough: I mean, we are probably right at 70 right now, so we're 

[00:01:55] Jason Yarborough: like, 

[00:01:55] Sam Yarborough: I think we're in the eighties 

[00:01:56] Jason Yarborough: top 0.001%. 

[00:01:59] Sam Yarborough: Wow. 

[00:02:00] Jason Yarborough: Podcasters, but definitely not listeners. 

[00:02:02] Sam Yarborough: I'm gonna take a win where we got one. We are a top 1% podcast. 

[00:02:05] Jason Yarborough: Now we're more than that. 

[00:02:07] Sam Yarborough: Okay, so anyways, now that we're in the top 1%, and finally recording in the studio today, we had a really awesome guest. 

[00:02:14] Jason Yarborough: Yeah, a local Bozeman Knight. Kelly Ramirez, 

[00:02:18] Sam Yarborough: Ms. Kelly Ramirez. And we 

[00:02:19] Jason Yarborough: Did you find out how we got connected?

[00:02:21] Jason Yarborough: Which is a really cool story. 

[00:02:22] Sam Yarborough: It is a cool story. Yeah. I won't, no spoiler alerts. But stay active on the LinkedIns people 'cause it does pay dividends 

[00:02:29] Jason Yarborough: or the Spotifys or YouTubes.

[00:02:32] Sam Yarborough: okay. So Kelly is an executive coach.

[00:02:35] Jason Yarborough: Yes. 

[00:02:36] Sam Yarborough: She, 

[00:02:36] Jason Yarborough: she's. But what is the type of her coaching? I've already forgot. 

[00:02:39] Sam Yarborough: Ontological. 

[00:02:40] Jason Yarborough: Yeah, that's, I feel like that's going to like some sort of doctor 

[00:02:43] Sam Yarborough: she'll explain what this means, but ontological means way of being. 

[00:02:47] Jason Yarborough: Yes. 

[00:02:47] Sam Yarborough: So your way of being in the world with your teams, with your company, 

[00:02:51] Jason Yarborough: with yourself.

[00:02:52] Sam Yarborough: With yourself. Um, this one felt very therapeutic to me, as most of these episodes have recently. 

[00:02:58] Jason Yarborough: Yeah, it was a really good conversation. I asked a lot of questions that I was trying to get answers to, so that was helpful. 

[00:03:04] Sam Yarborough: Yeah, so did I. So hopefully you all find this, helpful too, in the 

[00:03:08] Jason Yarborough: most ontological of ways.

[00:03:11] Jason Yarborough: Can I use it like that? 

[00:03:12] Sam Yarborough: No, I don't think that's correct. Okay. check out Kelly. Let us know what you think. Thank you for being a friend. We'll see you next time. 

[00:03:21] Jason Yarborough: See y'all.

[00:03:22] Sam Yarborough: Hello friends, 

[00:03:24] Jason Yarborough: It's a big day and, and the Friends with Benefits podcast. 

[00:03:26] Sam Yarborough: this is our first ever in person recording. 

[00:03:30] Jason Yarborough: Not in person, but we're in a studio. If you're watching this, you know, from home on your YouTubes, we are, uh.

[00:03:36] Jason Yarborough: We were in a podcast studio here in Bozeman, Montana. 

[00:03:39] Sam Yarborough: Yes. Not only are we in person with our beautiful guest today, but this is the first time Jason and I have ever been in the same room to record a podcast. 

[00:03:46] Jason Yarborough: This is true. 

[00:03:46] Kelly Ramirez: Thank you for inviting me to be your Guinea pig slash first. 

[00:03:50] Sam Yarborough: I mean, 

[00:03:50] Jason Yarborough: I 

[00:03:51] Sam Yarborough: think we owe you all the thanks.

[00:03:52] Jason Yarborough: It only took us 23 minutes to, uh, figure out how to get this set up, rocking and rolling. So, uh, I consider that a win. 

[00:03:58] Sam Yarborough: Okay. So today's guest is super exciting because. Well, I think we should start with this happened via an online connection.

[00:04:06] Kelly Ramirez: Mm 

[00:04:06] Sam Yarborough: mm-hmm. We should do a shout out to Lee, Melissa Moody. 

[00:04:09] Jason Yarborough: Melissa. Melissa. Moody. Moody. Be great. 

[00:04:10] Kelly Ramirez: Oney. 

[00:04:11] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:04:11] Sam Yarborough: So Melissa introduced us via LinkedIn. 

[00:04:15] Kelly Ramirez: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:15] Sam Yarborough: Um, and then we were lucky enough to meet Ms. Kelly Ramirez in person, um, who lives here in Bozeman and is doing phenomenal work with leaders. doing coaching, ontological coaching at that, 

[00:04:29] Sam Yarborough: hang tight if you dunno what that means. but yeah, Kelly's lives in Bozeman has two daughters, um, is a phenomenal athlete and hobbyist herself. So we're really excited to have you here. Thanks for joining 

[00:04:41] Kelly Ramirez: us.

[00:04:42] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, thank you. I'm really happy to be here. 

[00:04:43] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. I recently just learned of how much of a freak athlete you are through your LinkedIn post. I had no idea that you were such a endurance athlete. 

[00:04:50] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah, that's been, it's been really fun, when we say endurance athlete, like what we're talking about is running Right, right. Long distance running and, um, it, so last year, yeah, I committed to picking up or. Putting down on my calendar and then recruiting adventure buddies for a series of epics, um, which involved training for, and then carrying out these adventures.

[00:05:16] Kelly Ramirez: Um, no races. I didn't enter any formal more races. Okay. But, um. A couple friends of mine and I sat down and looked at some maps and thought about our bucket list. Big like ethics? Yeah. And then put 'em down on the calendar and started to train for them, and then kind of tick 'em off one by one. 

[00:05:36] Jason Yarborough: can 

[00:05:36] Sam Yarborough: you define an epic? 

[00:05:37] Kelly Ramirez: Okay. So an epic, as I define it, um, is an effort, like some specific event that requires mental, physical, and logistical organization. 

[00:05:50] Kelly Ramirez: And the reason that I defined it that way is I found, um, you know, by picking, I, I used to say like, oh, I'd like to go on a trip, or I don't spend enough time with this friend or that friend.

[00:06:01] Kelly Ramirez: And, um, what I found is if I like actually gave it criteria, and this is a little nerdy, but the way, the way that I found I stuck to it was I actually made at my primary business school last year. 

[00:06:13] Kelly Ramirez: I mean, it was for my wellbeing, but it, it didn't, I did not allow it to come last.

[00:06:17] Kelly Ramirez: And in fact, I found by prioritizing those, um, activities. And all the things I did around them, um, it allowed me to really see some phenomenal results in my business. 

[00:06:30] Kelly Ramirez: Was 

[00:06:30] Jason Yarborough: it like the, the discipline that you saw that made a difference or was it like just the sheer like increase of confidence?

[00:06:36] Jason Yarborough: Like what was it, 

[00:06:38] Kelly Ramirez: you know, what it was, and I think you both will probably relate to this as I actually, like in my schedule had time to just be like, the training time I took really seriously. And that's not 

[00:06:49] Sam Yarborough: something that you can rush. 

[00:06:51] Kelly Ramirez: You c you can't rush it. Yeah. And there were d right? I had injuries throughout the, uh, the week before I did my longest run, which was, uh, 38 miles across Zion National Park.

[00:07:01] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, wow. With my friend, beautiful friend Michelle. Um, I actually had a, like something going on with one of my tendons and my feet and I ended up in a boot, um, for 10 days before we were supposed to leave. And so I'm like, 

[00:07:13] Jason Yarborough: been there, done that. 

[00:07:15] Kelly Ramirez: It's not gonna happen. Right. And, um, my daughter, so you mentioned my 12-year-old daughter, so they each gave me their own version of the pep talk.

[00:07:22] Kelly Ramirez: Right. Scarlet, who's like so sensitive, comes to me and she's like, mommy, I just want you to know this might not happen and that will be okay. 

[00:07:30] Jason Yarborough: The realist. 

[00:07:32] Kelly Ramirez: And then I'm putting Lola to bed one night we're chatting and she's like, mommy, I want you to know. You are gonna be able to do this. 

[00:07:40] Jason Yarborough: I love it. 

[00:07:40] Kelly Ramirez: You have trained 

[00:07:41] Jason Yarborough: the optimist.

[00:07:42] Kelly Ramirez: You are prepared. Right. You don't have, there's one in every family. 

[00:07:47] Jason Yarborough: I love that. 

[00:07:49] Kelly Ramirez: Um, so honestly, I mean I think it's, um, it was the events, but it like the ability to, go to the places. Right. I was in Zion. I did a really big one in Yellowstone. That was super fun. That's awesome. Um, 

[00:08:01] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:08:01] Jason Yarborough: I think that's interesting how you found that incorporated into your business.

[00:08:04] Jason Yarborough: 'cause we talked to a lot of our Arcadian members about doing hard things. 

[00:08:07] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. 

[00:08:08] Jason Yarborough: And really challenging yourself and like pushing yourself beyond your means. And like, love to hear that you saw that influence and impact your business. Especially like as a coach who kind of helps people do the same thing.

[00:08:18] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:08:18] Sam Yarborough: Even further though, I think what I took from that is Arcadia means harmony and that means not neglecting parts of your life that may be easy to put on the back bench or whatever. And by you prioritizing this as a part of your business, you did it sounds like, kind of find that harmony throughout all areas of your life.

[00:08:38] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. Not, and you know this too, right? Not always in the most graceful or beautiful ways. Course. Course not. There were like some really hard or abandoned runs or other things that were happening over that year. But um. It felt like one of the ways that I have talked about it as I get found, like a way to find my own center of gravity, I'm sure about the coaching practice that I have, but, um, but I am coming up on the anniversary of the second year of opening that coaching practice, so it was still quite new and I think, um, you know, sitting in my office or like trying to figure things out, um, to get it right in a more traditional, like, I'm gonna sit down and get the work done.

[00:09:19] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:09:20] Kelly Ramirez: Um. Wasn't helping me. I would, right, I'd go on LinkedIn and start comparing myself to where I saw other people were. Or I'd think like, oh, okay, I need to do this or I need to do that. And in fact, the more space I gave myself, and for me that space was physical as well as mental. Um, I just started like, Jason, you said the confidence piece.

[00:09:41] Kelly Ramirez: It built my own confidence. Um, and then I found when I was able to clear some of that junk from my mind, I could be so much more present with my clients when we sat down for their work. 

[00:09:52] Sam Yarborough: We do have listeners to this podcast, but even if we didn't, I feel like every episode we have, I'm like, well, I needed to hear that.

[00:09:58] Sam Yarborough: Did I? 

[00:09:59] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, I love that. Well, you know, as I was getting ready to come in and because we're all in Bozeman, it was just to cross down. but I was thinking, oh my gosh, you know, since we went in person, we've had some opportunities to go on walks together. Mm-hmm. And I'll leave those walks. Maybe you think this every day 'cause you get to live with Sam.

[00:10:14] Sam Yarborough: I'll 

[00:10:14] Kelly Ramirez: be like, dang it, I wish I had recorded that, or I wish I had taken notes and now it is recorded. 

[00:10:19] Sam Yarborough: So I know. I was like, I'm anxious to have a conversation. It's just next time we're just gonna bring little mics on our walks, so 

[00:10:27] Jason Yarborough: I love it. 

[00:10:27] Sam Yarborough: Okay. The other thing I loved about what you said about your epics, um, it, it feels like it's on a very parallel path to kind of what you lead your leaders through.

[00:10:36] Sam Yarborough: we were talking about this, there's so many realms of coaching these days. Yes. And that can mean a million things to a million people. You specifically practice ontological coaching? Yeah. So let's just start there. Yeah. Can you define that for somebody who's never heard that term before?

[00:10:50] Kelly Ramirez: so ontological in any form that you put it in effectively is our way of being. 

[00:10:56] Jason Yarborough: Okay. 

[00:10:56] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and from a coaching perspective, in the training that I did, so I did my coach training in ontological coaching. the tenets of that, um, approach are really that as human beings, there are three main components to that influence.

[00:11:12] Kelly Ramirez: How we are, how we show up in the world, our way of being, it is body. Physical, right. Our somatic experience, how we hold our body. Um, and I'm sure we'll get to talking about that too as leaders, sideline a little bit, but one of the thing that that comes up a lot when I'm working with people who are moving into a leadership role is they'll mention like leadership presence.

[00:11:33] Kelly Ramirez: Part of that is somatic, right? So it's recognizing what's going on in my body, what do I understand about that? There's also an emotional component. Um, what emotions am I, am I feeling? And for a long time in my professional career, um, you know, being in tech and really having an analytical focus and honestly being a woman coming up in male dominated areas.

[00:11:58] Kelly Ramirez: Mm-hmm. What I understood about my emotions is what I should do is shut them down. Emotions didn't have a place. In work. 

[00:12:05] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:12:06] Kelly Ramirez: what I've come to learn and what I really love about this specific approach, um, to coaching and also just to living our lives, is recognizing that emotions are messages 

[00:12:17] Kelly Ramirez: We have the opportunity. And I think too as leaders, the responsibility to be aware of them 

[00:12:24] Jason Yarborough: mm-hmm. 

[00:12:24] Kelly Ramirez: And have a way to metabolize them, understand what is this emotion telling me before we, um, allow it to really run or yeah. Run the show takeover. 

[00:12:35] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:12:35] Kelly Ramirez: So there's an emotional component to that. And then there's a language component and language is right.

[00:12:41] Kelly Ramirez: The language we use, also the beliefs or the narratives that, like running loop, especially in times of. Stress or crisis or frustration that feel very familiar. Yeah. I mean, we probably all had some of those Yeah. Honestly, 15 minutes ago as we were trying to set up this whole new podcast thing, right. Of like, oh shit, I'm not gonna get it.

[00:13:02] Kelly Ramirez: Right. So like being really aware of the language that is present that you're using, um, and the ontological frame, um, in the world is like, all of those things make up how you show up 

[00:13:16] Sam Yarborough: mm-hmm. 

[00:13:17] Kelly Ramirez: How you arrive, and also the results that you get. 

[00:13:20] Sam Yarborough: Hmm. 

[00:13:21] Kelly Ramirez: So if you're getting results that you don't like or you have a sensation of feeling stuck or, I'll often hear people say like, I'm doing all the right things, but I'm still not getting the outcome I want.

[00:13:32] Jason Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:32] Kelly Ramirez: It actually has very little to do with what you're doing. 

[00:13:35] Jason Yarborough: Hmm. 

[00:13:35] Kelly Ramirez: And it has a lot more to do with how you're being 

[00:13:39] Jason Yarborough: you're essentially walking people through like how to reframe. 

[00:13:42] Jason Yarborough: their state of being. 

[00:13:44] Kelly Ramirez: That's a great way to say it. And then not only reframe the, the fascinating part about this work that I really love is we're then reframing.

[00:13:53] Kelly Ramirez: So there's a new perspective, right? There's new language that's available or a new belief, um, that you can bring into a situation. But we're also then an active practice of building new neural pathways in your brain. 

[00:14:07] Jason Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:07] Kelly Ramirez: Um, so you're not just an automatic reactive 

[00:14:11] Sam Yarborough: mm-hmm. 

[00:14:11] Kelly Ramirez: Right. Go to what's always worked or what you always thought is true.

[00:14:15] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:14:15] Kelly Ramirez: About a situation. 

[00:14:17] Sam Yarborough: I think it's important to take a step back really quickly and talk about how you got to this place. Mm. Because a lot of people just fall into coaching. But you actually were a participant. I was recipient of coaching first. 

[00:14:27] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah, I was. Yeah. 

[00:14:28] Sam Yarborough: Do you mind sharing that quick story?

[00:14:30] Kelly Ramirez: I would be happy to. So, I actually. Became aware of coaching by having a coach. Um, and there's a story that I'd love to share. so I had prismatic, it was an e-commerce growth firm, and we grew really quickly. Um, luckily we, things were going really well. Um, and I had, um, actually Natalie Flowers, since we're in Bozeman mm-hmm.

[00:14:52] Sam Yarborough: Erica Flowers has been on the 

[00:14:53] Kelly Ramirez: podcast. Yes. Okay, great. So ago, all great people only have one degree of separation. So Natalie, um, in that business was my right hand woman in many ways. as she was advancing within our small firm, one of the requests that she's, she made to me, um, was to have access to more leadership development.

[00:15:11] Kelly Ramirez: And so, um, what we ended up deciding to do was hire an executive coach who could work with both of us, um, and allow us, right, enable us to be more effective, more efficient for the business to run more smoothly. Now if I like take us back five years, when I started the work, I thought, oh, awesome executive coach, she's gonna help me figure out how to get people to do what I want faster.

[00:15:33] Kelly Ramirez: Right. This will be perfect. 

[00:15:36] Jason Yarborough: Um, 

[00:15:36] Jason Yarborough: how wrong were you? 

[00:15:37] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, so wrong. That's, that's not what, right. So, um, so when we began to work with her, what we actually had the opportunity to do was see more clearly the habits and patterns, um, that had allowed both of us, right.

[00:15:51] Kelly Ramirez: And I'll speak for me now, had allowed me to be successful, those same habits, patterns, beliefs, the way of being right, how I was in my work in my life, um, there was a limit to that. It actually like, had begun to cap what was possible for me. Um, and so, that approach, um, really help me rather than.

[00:16:16] Kelly Ramirez: Great people are doing exactly what I want, how I want them to do it. Um, I was able to peel like the curtain back, um, for myself and understand, wow, okay. I have this, like one example, I have a limited belief right, that runs through my head and helps me, has me justify or understand my role in the world.

[00:16:37] Kelly Ramirez: So my limited belief that I was able to identify was I have to be responsible. And then as another example, another part we defined is a coping competency. So that's like what you do when you're in this reactive state. 

[00:16:51] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:51] Kelly Ramirez: For me, a little long single-mindedly and righteously taking over to get the outcome I want ASAP.

[00:16:59] Kelly Ramirez: I 

[00:16:59] Sam Yarborough: Kelly told me this when we first met, and I was like, same. 

[00:17:03] Jason Yarborough: I was gonna say, have you guys met each other? 

[00:17:04] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:17:04] Kelly Ramirez: but hey, so here's the thing, right? Like if you recognize things in that, there's like that given, right? Things that happen early in our life as human beings when we're evolving and our brain is making sense of the world.

[00:17:18] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:18] Kelly Ramirez: Being that way, like doing those things I know for me allowed me to be successful. 

[00:17:23] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:24] Kelly Ramirez: And yet, once I got to the place of business owner, right? Not like scrapping out a startup and trying to get clients, but actually like, how do I create a movement? How do I take this from just doing right?

[00:17:39] Kelly Ramirez: Like,

[00:17:40] Kelly Ramirez: how do I move from executing to actually having impact?

[00:17:45] Kelly Ramirez: beyond myself. 'cause my coping competency and for us, we all have one. It makes me feel really good when I can do it. Whether it's at work and you know, or it's at home and it's around doing dishes or putting, loading the dishwasher a certain way when I'm like, it's gotta be this way.

[00:18:01] Kelly Ramirez: And I now, right through that coaching that started five years ago, and now in you, I think the question's already with how are you working with others in this, it's like just the awareness that that's at play takes power away from it, from running the show. 

[00:18:16] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:17] Jason Yarborough: I was kinda thinking about that.

[00:18:18] Jason Yarborough: I was like, if I'm listening to my home, like, okay, well how do I identify that in myself? So you talked about, uh, identifying habits, patterns, beliefs, and those limited beliefs like 

[00:18:28] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. 

[00:18:29] Jason Yarborough: Tactically, what did you do to, to identify those in yourself and like how do you help your clients find that now?

[00:18:34] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah, so the way that I was able to do it was by working with a coach one-on-one for at the detailed level. But I think it, that's not required. Um, if somebody is listening to this and thinking like, oh, there's gotta be, what might this be for me? 

[00:18:48] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:49] Kelly Ramirez: I would say one way to identify that would be, think about the last upset or last conflict that really had your feathers ruffled.

[00:18:57] Kelly Ramirez: Right. Something that you might have like ruminated on at night. and as you think about that, notice, what is my assumption? Like what are the stories that I'm telling about that? Um, and if I make a little bit of room, is that actually true? 

[00:19:15] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:19:15] Kelly Ramirez: that's like one. Exercise just to start, um, really, 'cause the first step in all of this that we'll talk about today is like making room for a little more awareness instead of jumping right to, well this is how it is 

[00:19:27] Jason Yarborough: I was curious, you talk a lot about like, um, the way of being, 

[00:19:31] Kelly Ramirez: yeah. 

[00:19:31] Jason Yarborough: Right? How is, how is that different or same from like mindset, habits or strategy?

[00:19:37] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, I love that question. So let, can we talk about the strategy piece? Sure. Because I think that's a, like a key differentiator, um, in terms of the type of work that I am aligned with and the wide variety of coaching support or consulting support that you could seek out. I'll use an example from a client that I worked with who had, um, you know, has built a multimillion dollar business, um, has had the benefit of working with a number of different.

[00:20:06] Kelly Ramirez: Coaches along the way for different things. Um, and we were actually doing the wrap up, like the debrief on a six month intensive that we did together, which is the main way that I engage with my clients. And I was asking for her feedback and she said, she said, you know, I have to tell you, when we first started working together, I was feeling really frustrated because, um, I thought from having experience working with other business coaches that I would come in and there would be like solutions that we would work on.

[00:20:38] Kelly Ramirez: Mm-hmm. Or, my background, is in marketing. So she said like, there were times when I had a marketing problem and I thought that you would like, I mean, help me solve it, you know, a lot. What? You never told me the answer. Um, I, you know, it was so different. Um, and she said at first, that was really frustrating to me.

[00:20:58] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and so then I said, well, what about now? And she said, actually like this six months has been some of the most transformational work I've done for my business and for myself. 

[00:21:11] Jason Yarborough: 

[00:21:11] Kelly Ramirez: because I this way, right? This type of coaching, 

[00:21:15] Kelly Ramirez: Really is much more about not getting advice or getting the answer from an expert.

[00:21:21] Kelly Ramirez: But in coaching, like you and I, Jason, if we were to sit down for a session, um, we are equal partners in the conversation. 

[00:21:28] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:21:29] Kelly Ramirez: And in fact I often say, right, my role is the listener. Your role is the thinker and my job is to hold a flashlight and you've got the map. So my value, like what I am able to offer to you, really the whole goal of us working together is being able to shine that light on things or ask questions in a way that has you pause.

[00:21:52] Kelly Ramirez: Invite a different perspective. 

[00:21:54] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:21:55] Kelly Ramirez: And so coming back to the client in that six month wrap up, she said I thought I wanted the answers. But what really benefited me was by having you ask me questions that had me find my own answers. Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:07] Jason Yarborough: Needed the direction they needed a guide.

[00:22:09] Kelly Ramirez: some of the things that she came up with weren't, you know, weren't on my radar at all. Yeah. But that's not my role. My role is, um, really bringing more clarity and then also I think like creating a space for people to not know, 

[00:22:24] Kelly Ramirez: I'm gonna make it leap and save for like.

[00:22:27] Kelly Ramirez: Those of us that might be right historically, like type A yes, no, not a plant, know how to get shit done. And, and we've also been acknowledged, rewarded and celebrated for that. Mm-hmm. Type of like, well, I'm just gonna do it. 

[00:22:41] Kelly Ramirez: but sitting and not knowing is very uncomfortable. so I think that's also like part of, you know, in my background, in business is as a consultant.

[00:22:51] Kelly Ramirez: So I was rewarded and celebrated, and peed for having the answer. And I think one of the things that I've really enjoyed about getting into this type of development and coaching work is it's invited me to unlearn a lot. 

[00:23:06] Sam Yarborough: I'm sure, yeah. 

[00:23:07] Kelly Ramirez: In service of those that I partner with. Um, and that's been, it's like a little meta, but also 

[00:23:13] Sam Yarborough: Yeah.

[00:23:14] Kelly Ramirez: Like it, it's human right, because nobody has the answer. Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:19] Sam Yarborough: They all pretend 

[00:23:20] Kelly Ramirez: that they do, but there's a lot of pretending, a lot of performing, which I think waste, I know waste a lot of time and energy, um, that could otherwise be spent like actually learning more. 

[00:23:32] Sam Yarborough: okay, so going back to your client, because I feel like especially in today's business world where it's do more with less, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[00:23:41] Sam Yarborough: This client who was looking for answers to her strategies 

[00:23:44] Kelly Ramirez: Hmm. 

[00:23:45] Sam Yarborough: Throughout the practice, did she find those and did she find those, like, talk to us about the outcome of that side of the practice. 

[00:23:53] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah, yeah. Um, so she did, and this, this client in particular actually decided to make some really big changes in the business, um, in the interest of the higher level goals of the business and the ability to set the team and the structure.

[00:24:10] Kelly Ramirez: And at the end of the day, her strategy up, um, for, for growth. 

[00:24:15] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:16] Kelly Ramirez: what's most interesting though? Um, so in fact she and I had a, had a session this week and she came in with a very tactical, um, you know, a tactical thing. She has a series of conversations to have around some key business decisions.

[00:24:32] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and I think, like if I say, even like pre write me with a consultant hat would've been like, all right, let's get the calendar out, what meetings need to get scheduled. But instead, we were able to spend some time on like, what has her hesitating how is she gonna show up in that conversation?

[00:24:51] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and be able to share some really big news that people weren't anticipating, um, and be confident in it. and this might be a good example. That sounds familiar. So she has brought in, brought to the business a series of expert consultants to weigh in on the direction that the business was taking.

[00:25:11] Kelly Ramirez: And in this talk, she said, you know, previously I might have sat down with my team and said, I got this information from these experts and they told us that we needed to be doing this to move forward. But instead she was able to recognize how she wanted to actually be in that moment. Like, what, what was she conveying to her team by taking a little more, I would say like ownership, um, over, I made this decision.

[00:25:39] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:40] Kelly Ramirez: As the leader, I'm interested or owner of the business, I want your feedback, but the feedback isn't gonna sway the decision that I made with the knowledge that I have for the best outcome of us all. 

[00:25:51] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:25:51] Kelly Ramirez: And that, um, I think even that type of move requires. You know, not saying, well, I'm doing it because I'm right, but actually like I want the best for all of us 

[00:26:03] Jason Yarborough: that leader having, trying to have control to more like opening the room up, right? 

[00:26:08] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. 

[00:26:08] Jason Yarborough: So like I think you have to have a mental switch for a lot of leaders. Like you don't have to control the scenario, right? Right. You don't have to like dictate, you can open the room up and be more comfortable and confident in like how you're leading and empowering.

[00:26:22] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. Well and one of the things that came up over conversations, right, that I think we can all relate to, um, is like one of the fears that she brought to the table is, I made the wrong decision. 

[00:26:35] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:26:36] Kelly Ramirez: Nobody's gonna like it. People are gonna leave or they're gonna argue with me. 

[00:26:41] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:42] Kelly Ramirez: And so we spend some time, right.

[00:26:44] Kelly Ramirez: Noticing, well, when you anticipate that, if that's a story, how are you showing up for the conversation? And so back to Jason, your question about like. The body, the emotion, the language piece. Like actually being able to recognize that those are all at play for us as humans and metabolizing those or like getting straight with what that is, prevents you from showing up.

[00:27:09] Kelly Ramirez: And I'm sure we've all had a leader like this and just saying, this is how it's gonna be. No question. The control. Yeah. Control is the way that I can get through. And in fact, it's like, no, I have confidence in the good decision making that I am taking with input for the team and I am, we're gonna go in this direction.

[00:27:27] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:27] Kelly Ramirez: There's a, there's a difference there. 

[00:27:29] Jason Yarborough: You mentioned something about your client a second ago that I'm curious about. Like, you used the word fear, like how often do you talk to a, a leader or talk to an executive who you find is like leading from a place of fear?

[00:27:41] Kelly Ramirez: that is the core of the work. 

[00:27:42] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:27:42] Kelly Ramirez: That I am doing with individuals. I think, um. Is first identifying what is fear? Right? What, what are the things that have me feel afraid or hesitating or in protection mode? Um, and what are the things that are actually on my edge that are pushing me to grow or evolve mm-hmm.

[00:28:03] Kelly Ramirez: That feel uncomfortable, but I'm ready for. Um, so one of the ways that we start, um, in the intensive that I do with clients is we have the opportunity to build a framework, um, of them, like the behaviors, the patterns, um, the very specific things that are present for them when they are in their limited self.

[00:28:27] Kelly Ramirez: And when I say that phrase, limited self, what comes to mind for you? 

[00:28:31] Jason Yarborough: Things that hold me back. 

[00:28:33] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. Stories we're 

[00:28:34] Sam Yarborough: telling ourself. 

[00:28:35] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. Yeah. So it's like us, you know, it's not the best version of ourselves. It's when we're coming from a place specifically of fear. 

[00:28:42] Jason Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:43] Kelly Ramirez: and so by being able to identify, right, what is my hidden fear?

[00:28:47] Kelly Ramirez: What is my limited belief? Then you get really proficient at being able to identify when that's at play versus, um, when there's other information 

[00:28:58] Kelly Ramirez: That you're taking. And that might be more actually aligned to a big leap you're ready to make. 

[00:29:05] Sam Yarborough: We interrupt this episode with some breaking news. 

[00:29:10] Jason Yarborough: Big breaking news, 

[00:29:11] Sam Yarborough: big breaking news. Hmm. 

[00:29:12] Jason Yarborough: Love me some BB n. 

[00:29:14] Sam Yarborough: For the third time, we are hosting the 

[00:29:17] Jason Yarborough: Arcadia Leadership Experience 

[00:29:20] Sam Yarborough: July 27th through 30th in the woods of Montana. 

[00:29:24] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. New location this year. Deeper in the mountains, which is gonna be Funer.

[00:29:29] Jason Yarborough: It's got some great spectacular views of the Bridger Mountains. 

[00:29:32] Sam Yarborough: Sure does. Creek, we've 

[00:29:33] Jason Yarborough: creek got there to see a couple times. 

[00:29:34] Sam Yarborough: We've got a creek on property. 

[00:29:35] Jason Yarborough: Also there's yaks 

[00:29:37] Sam Yarborough: yak, kitty yak, yaks, 

[00:29:39] Jason Yarborough: yaks on property. But anyway, what is this Arcadia leadership experience known as? A LX. 

[00:29:45] Sam Yarborough: A LX is an anti conference.

[00:29:49] Jason Yarborough: Like a conference, but not a conference. 

[00:29:50] Sam Yarborough: Correct. Hence the anti for 65 of the top go to market. GTM leaders in the space. Mm-hmm. Coming together to learn from each other, build intentional relationships, have really unique experiences together, like fly fishing, yoga, 

[00:30:08] Jason Yarborough: hiking, 

[00:30:09] Sam Yarborough: sound, bath. 

[00:30:10] Jason Yarborough: But it's also great because like we're helping people discover.

[00:30:13] Jason Yarborough: Purpose and refresh. There's a lot of psychology of like being in the woods for two hours. Kinda reset your brain. Like imagine what three days in the woods can do for you. 

[00:30:20] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:21] Jason Yarborough: And you're in there in the woods because like everyone's sleeping in glamping tents, with the exception of like eight people who get it indoor lodging this year.

[00:30:28] Sam Yarborough: So that's your jam signup now. 'cause those will go fast. 

[00:30:30] Jason Yarborough: They're almost gone. 

[00:30:31] Sam Yarborough: They're almost gone. Anyways, we'd love to see you there, Arcadia leadership experience.com com for more information. 

[00:30:38] Jason Yarborough: And big thanks to Partners Stack who's helping us pull this off yet again this year. 

[00:30:42] Sam Yarborough: Yep. Couldn't do it without 'em.

[00:30:44] Sam Yarborough: So we'll see you this summer in Montana, 

[00:30:47] Jason Yarborough: A LX 26. Y'all. Bruce.

[00:30:50] Sam Yarborough: if you know that you're in this place. So for me, it's, I need to control this situation. Mm-hmm. Because I'm afraid that it will fail if I don't. 

[00:30:58] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. 

[00:30:58] Sam Yarborough: And. Therefore I'm, I'm not allowing it to be what it's gonna be because I have such a tight grip on it. 

[00:31:05] Kelly Ramirez: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:05] Sam Yarborough: How do you move out from that?

[00:31:07] Sam Yarborough: How do you start to like push that aside and be like, okay, I'm aware of that now. What? 

[00:31:11] Kelly Ramirez: one thing, even as I was listening to you describe it, you were able to say, okay, I am, I'm feeling this way because I'm worried that it's gonna fail. 

[00:31:20] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:20] Kelly Ramirez: So even recognizing like, okay, I'm worried about that.

[00:31:24] Kelly Ramirez: And then, you know, you, Sam had, let's say we had had the opportunity to go through an intensive together and you had very clear that, that when you hear that thought, that means you're like, woo, being pulled back into that place where you're likely coming from, your actions are gonna be more aligned to like, making the pain stop or Right.

[00:31:44] Kelly Ramirez: A reaction. Mm-hmm. Versus like having the time to actually think well. What do I want, like at the highest level, what's the outcome here that I'm going for? And so I would say in a couple ways, you're, you've done one step already, which is recognizing, right, being an observer of yourself. Like, and that might even be, we talked about some body, like somatic things that like, oh, I'm feel right, I'm doing this.

[00:32:07] Kelly Ramirez: Like, I'm feeling hot, like flushed my, 

[00:32:09] Sam Yarborough: yeah. 

[00:32:10] Kelly Ramirez: My neck is getting hot. Um, you know, one of the things we define, in the intensive is your default mood. So that would be like the mood that's present when you're like slipping back into that place of your limited self or your like protective lizard brain part.

[00:32:29] Sam Yarborough: I think we were both there this morning. 

[00:32:31] Kelly Ramirez: Well, for me it's restless agitation, right? Yeah. So that's all I use that as a first clue of like, oh, okay, I'm feeling that. So the first thing is like coming back into your body and not an a woo woo way, but truly like. taking a deep breath because physiologically the reaction or when we have a trigger that is very familiar to us, moving into a state of reactive behavior takes a quarter of a second.

[00:33:00] Kelly Ramirez: Having the time to actually create and identify the response that you wanna have that's aligned with the outcome that you're going for takes about four to five seconds a time for like a deep breath. 

[00:33:14] Sam Yarborough: That's a crazy amount of time, though. Well, the difference between those two.

[00:33:17] Kelly Ramirez: Yes. 

[00:33:18] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. And how much you have to like, be aware of it to catch it before a quarter of a second happens. 

[00:33:24] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. Y 

[00:33:26] Kelly Ramirez: Yes. 

[00:33:26] Jason Yarborough: Before the default system just kicks 

[00:33:28] Sam Yarborough: off. Yeah, 

[00:33:28] Kelly Ramirez: totally. Oh, okay. So I love that you used that phrase to the default system. One of the ways that, and in fact, it was a client of mine who said this, and I heard her say it, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's it.

[00:33:39] Kelly Ramirez: She said, it feels like I'm building a new internal operating system. 

[00:33:43] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:33:43] Kelly Ramirez: And I think that's really accurate because you have, how many earth years are you? 

[00:33:47] Sam Yarborough: 36. 

[00:33:49] Kelly Ramirez: So I'm 44. Like Right. I have four decades. You have more than three decades we risk Higgins, who's the coach that I worked with, she would introduce it as this 20 lane highway.

[00:34:00] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and over time, right, our behavior patterns start as like a game trail and then, right. Maybe you get like, the response that you're looking for or the, the, something feels good when you make a reactive behavior or you take a project back, or you. An example for me, I like shove my husband outta the way so I can load the dishwasher the way that I wanna, like, oh, it feels good.

[00:34:23] Kelly Ramirez: And that's like a do, right? It feels good in the moment. Um, but the more like that happens, it becomes this 40 lane highway. Yeah. Um, and so you said it, God, that seems so hard. Um, and it is hard. Mm-hmm. It's hard because it's something new and it's like, have, have you heard about or thought learned about 

[00:34:44] Kelly Ramirez: The, term neuroplasticity? 

[00:34:46] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. Oh yeah. 

[00:34:47] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. 

[00:34:47] Jason Yarborough: Andrew Huberman is making it very famous right now. 

[00:34:49] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, really? Okay. Cool. Intro. I mean, that's literally what's happening in your brain when Sam, you go from allowing that quarter a second reaction to take over to actually like, building in the space.

[00:35:01] Jason Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:02] Kelly Ramirez: To think to, to actually set a new. Set of actions Yeah. 

[00:35:07] Jason Yarborough: for the listeners, let's define neuroplasticity. 

[00:35:09] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah, sure. So I mean, neuroplasticity at the end of the day is the ability at regardless of what age, to um. In many ways, like rewire your brain Yeah. Mm-hmm. To start, pick up new activities that allow you to build new connections, um, in your brain so you can behave and build new habits in different ways.

[00:35:31] Kelly Ramirez: I'm taking a pottery class at the Emerson Cultural Center. Can I come? It's like very, I told my husband I was signing up. He's like, wow. Very, uh, middle aged lazy thing to do, like, like ghost. I was like, it's not like ghost, but I think about it as like, okay, this is actually a cool exercise. Totally.

[00:35:49] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and the, the instructor when we were in one of the first classes, I'm like asking like, okay, so is it this way or is it that way or is this way? And he looks at me and he is like, this is pottery class. There are no rules. I was like, 

[00:36:00] Sam Yarborough: you're like, well, that's uncomfortable for me. So this 

[00:36:02] Jason Yarborough: has not worked in my operating system.

[00:36:05] Kelly Ramirez: So that's a practice, right? Like actually I mean if we use that example of like a pottery class or, you know, if somebody takes a knitting class or swims Right. Does something different that engages different parts of their brain. Mm-hmm. You're building like new, new connections. 

[00:36:21] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. I feel like going back to the.

[00:36:25] Jason Yarborough: Conversation we had kicking off, like doing those hard things, like doing things that are outside of your comfort zone, doing things that are difficult and, and challenging is part of that. 

[00:36:34] Kelly Ramirez: Yes. 

[00:36:35] Jason Yarborough: And like, that's why it's so crucial, like to, to how it can impact the work that we do and influence. It's like you can literally rewire how your brain fires by challenging yourself and doing those hard things.

[00:36:45] Jason Yarborough: And it's part of like why we encourage folks to do that. 

[00:36:47] Kelly Ramirez: there's this theme that has been coming up in my coaching and conversations of easy versus ease. 

[00:36:54] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:55] Kelly Ramirez: Okay. So I heard you both go, Hmm. What, what was the reaction? What does that have you think? When I say easy versus ease 

[00:37:03] Jason Yarborough: doing things because you can, you can do something that's easy.

[00:37:05] Jason Yarborough: You can do things that's kind of, you know, it's simple to carry out, but it requires maybe a. A longer effort to accomplish versus just doing something because it is just because it's easy and it's there. 

[00:37:17] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:37:17] Jason Yarborough: It's, it's chat GPT versus writing your own freaking email. 

[00:37:20] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. No, that's a great example. 

[00:37:23] Sam Yarborough: Yeah.

[00:37:23] Sam Yarborough: And same, I feel like ease is you've set yourself up to be in a place of flow. 

[00:37:30] Kelly Ramirez: Ooh. 

[00:37:30] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. Whereas easy is just like the default. Let's just get this done, even if it's not the most strategic or effective way. 

[00:37:38] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. I got really curious to like, continue to look into that more, think about it more, because I find at the end of every six month intensive, I do a feedback and a reflection session and um, I noticed the word that people were using the most to talk about what had come about in the work for them was ease.

[00:37:58] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:37:58] Kelly Ramirez: And at the same time Right. Saying like, this, this process hasn't been. Easy. But I often think like easy is kind of what you get when you're on autopilot. 

[00:38:07] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:08] Kelly Ramirez: And when I engage in working with a founder, an owner, or Right, a very high level operator within a bigger organization, they're not looking for easy.

[00:38:17] Kelly Ramirez: Maybe they've done it the easy way or settle or like, kind of followed a path that already existed, but you get to like a certain milestone, that path, whether it's revenue or title or um Right. A level of bonus that you're taking home. And the feeling might be like, okay, now what? 

[00:38:34] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:38:35] Kelly Ramirez: I feel like I'm trying to do a hundred things in a day. Like, I don't, I'm not living in a way that bring, I don't have ease. 

[00:38:42] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:38:43] Kelly Ramirez: But I'm like punching in, in an easy way. I I'm still forming. No, I, I'm curious to hear what your reaction is. 'cause I'm like, they're, they're quite different things.

[00:38:51] Kelly Ramirez: You can be doing hard things. Yet have ease. 

[00:38:55] Sam Yarborough: Well, to your point, the state of being in which you do these things 

[00:39:00] Kelly Ramirez: totally 

[00:39:01] Sam Yarborough: changes the outcome, the perspective, all of it. 

[00:39:04] Kelly Ramirez: Totally. 

[00:39:04] Sam Yarborough: Okay. So I have a question like 

[00:39:05] Jason Yarborough: your example of flow though, because like 

[00:39:07] Sam Yarborough: mm-hmm. 

[00:39:07] Jason Yarborough: Flow requires some effort and work to get to that state.

[00:39:10] Jason Yarborough: Totally. And what you do, like, you find that ease of like, we flow in that scenario versus like just doing the easy thing. And my example, gonna to chat GPT and doing the work for you versus, you know, making the effort to do the work and finding that needs 

[00:39:23] Sam Yarborough: and own it and find the, yeah. 

[00:39:25] Sam Yarborough: what do people come to you hoping to solve? Like what's their initial problem? 

[00:39:28] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. Um, I often like will start the conversation like that. Like, what has you. Thinking about coaching even, right? Mm-hmm. And so a lot of things that I hear is, um, a level of exhaustion, right?

[00:39:45] Kelly Ramirez: So all of the clients that I work with, um, I work with seven and eight figure founders. Owners, um, and then a select number of C-suite executives, okay. People who are in a key decision making role for a large business. Um, and one of the common things that I will hear people say is, things are working or, right.

[00:40:07] Kelly Ramirez: Like for a founder, like, I built this business over the last 10, 20 years, four years, whatever it might be, but like, but I'm losing myself in it, or I don't wanna lose myself in it. 

[00:40:17] Sam Yarborough: Hmm. 

[00:40:18] Kelly Ramirez: Or we're having trouble with the team, like I'll set a direction or, um, you know, we're setting goals and either like.

[00:40:28] Kelly Ramirez: Not getting there. There's confusion along the way. There's too much thrash. I'll hear that, that when I hear that word or any adjacency to that word of like, this should be easier than it is. 

[00:40:39] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:40] Kelly Ramirez: I think another category of things that I hear is, 

[00:40:43] Kelly Ramirez: I've done all the right things and something isn't working. Something doesn't feel good. 

[00:40:50] Sam Yarborough: Hmm. 

[00:40:51] Kelly Ramirez: And so then I'll take the opportunity to dig. Right. What should it feel like? I spoke to somebody recently who lives in Vail, um, and they had said, you know, I've done all this work to build this business like, I can't even allow myself to leave early on Friday to go skiing and I live in this incredible place.

[00:41:08] Kelly Ramirez: And so that's a clue. Like, okay, well what's preventing that? I'll hear people talk about it as like, there's just this weight that I can't get out from under. 

[00:41:17] Kelly Ramirez: if I step away from this business, everything's gonna go sideways. 

[00:41:20] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:20] Kelly Ramirez: If I don't do everything, if I'm not involved in every step. Um, so those are kind of the neighborhood of things that someone might be saying, um, before we work together. 

[00:41:31] Sam Yarborough: we were emailing back and forth before this and you had said like, there's probably some similarities between the work we're doing at Arcadia and this Yeah.

[00:41:38] Sam Yarborough: And that right there, I mean, I feel like we're all conditioned to chase these titles and these careers, whether that be you're an individual contributor or you're a business owner, but at some point we wake up in our lives and we just feel this weight on our chest and think that's it. This is it. Mm-hmm.

[00:41:58] Sam Yarborough: Like, I got the title, I got the salary 

[00:42:00] Kelly Ramirez: Right. 

[00:42:00] Sam Yarborough: I got the, whatever it is we're chasing. And then you open your eyes and you're like, I still feel like shit. 

[00:42:05] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. I mean, I had that exact moment myself when I was at Google. as you were talking, one thing came to mind that I'd love to share of how I was able to put it into words of like, I'm not lit, I'm not, I'm not dealing in the right currency.

[00:42:22] Kelly Ramirez: That's how I was able to explain it to my husband, which ultimately prompted us to move back to Montana and set off a whole other trajectory. But like on paper, right? I was moving up very quickly in an organization. There was tons of opportunity. Like, um, I kept getting more and more, um, but I felt like I couldn't cash it in for what I actually wanted.

[00:42:45] Kelly Ramirez: Mm. 

[00:42:45] Sam Yarborough: Could you define what you actually wanted at that point? 

[00:42:48] Kelly Ramirez: the way that I was able to talk about it is like. Freedom, like space. 

[00:42:53] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:42:53] Kelly Ramirez: I wanted, I remember there was one way I was able to articulate, we were living in Seattle at the time and we had moved from Bozeman to Seattle for my husband to go to law school.

[00:43:00] Kelly Ramirez: I started at Google and things really took off for us. We were very grateful. But I remember telling him like, we don't have any friends that just popped by. Like, our life is so structured and it has to, it's so optimized and so organized that like, I don't feel like I'm actually living it. I wanted to spend time with my, I had two infants at the time, so I had had twins.

[00:43:26] Kelly Ramirez: Um, during my time at Google, I had a very generous maternity leave. I was super grateful for it. I went back at 80%. Um, but that still meant that we. Hired a nanny to be in our house for 50 hours a week because of the travel that I had. 

[00:43:42] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:43:43] Kelly Ramirez: The commitments. Even though I was working 80% and as I shared that, you know, I recognized like 

[00:43:49] Kelly Ramirez: To be able to make the choice was a privilege. But I think that also kept me stuck. Like, why am I not happy with this people? Why am I 

[00:43:58] Sam Yarborough: ungrateful for this? Yeah. 

[00:43:59] Kelly Ramirez: Why am I ungrateful? Why? And you know, a little bit about my personal background. My father's an immigrant from the Dominican Republic. My mom is a teen mom.

[00:44:07] Kelly Ramirez: even that concept of like a nanny to come to take care of your kids like 

[00:44:12] Kelly Ramirez: that way of thinking kept me stuck. 

[00:44:13] Sam Yarborough: Yes. '

[00:44:14] Kelly Ramirez: cause I was like, I should be more grateful people would kill for this job, 

[00:44:17] Sam Yarborough: 

[00:44:17] Kelly Ramirez: But inside like. It wasn't for me. That's not where I, I, I felt like I was shrinking, um, and really losing myself in it, but yet I kept trying to like, I mean, it felt like grabbing at tokens Right.

[00:44:30] Kelly Ramirez: God, I just got this award, or, God, I get to travel to London four times a year. Like, the word I could describe is like, it felt empty. And then I was able to say to Marcus one weekend, like, I got, I got it.

[00:44:42] Kelly Ramirez: I'm not dealing in the right currency. Like 

[00:44:44] Sam Yarborough: it's, I love that image. I'm like picturing like you're getting tokens for a vending machine. You don't even want 

[00:44:49] Jason Yarborough: talk us through that process of like how you identified what was next and how you made that move. 

[00:44:53] Kelly Ramirez: At the time, I didn't have a coach I was working with, um, but I did know, I think Marcus and I had spent time, and this probably will resonate with you too as well, knowing your partners in life as well as business things.

[00:45:07] Kelly Ramirez: Um, we actually sat down, I had like, um, I think this was a premonition of working like coach life, but I came up with this way of talking about what we wanted and I took, um, pieces, five pieces of computer paper and we divided them into four quadrants. And each quadrant was a season, so right winter, spring, summer, fall.

[00:45:29] Kelly Ramirez: And Marcus and I sat on the couch and I taped up, right? The babies are asleep. I tape up these quadrants and then we each have post-it notes and I was like, I just wanna get clear, like, are we even on the same page? Do you like that? Like this? There's great things about this life, but like. 

[00:45:46] Kelly Ramirez: is this what you want? Mm. And so we did an exercise together of writing down the things that were important to us individually when it came to like family work, where we lived, what we were doing in our community, hobbies that we would've time for. And then when we had our individualists, we went and put them on this timeline, like, well, when would that happen?

[00:46:07] Kelly Ramirez: what we started to see together as we got those things up on the board was like, I don't know if what we say we want is actually possible with how we're living today.

[00:46:18] Sam Yarborough: Mm. 

[00:46:20] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and that, I think, started the conversation. Um, but it led to some really tough. Decisions that we made. One of them being, um, you know, when we decided that we did wanna move back to Montana, Marcus ended up leaving his full-time role at a law firm in Seattle and we packed up the moving van without any idea of what his job would be when we arrived here.

[00:46:45] Kelly Ramirez: 

[00:46:45] Sam Yarborough: sounds familiar. 

[00:46:46] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:46:47] Kelly Ramirez: Right. And actually like, I think grounding in that community piece, like I think the ability to make that decision and surround yourself with other people that are also thinking in that way. Mm-hmm. And as I learn more, you know, and know what you guys are building at Arcadia, it has me like really.

[00:47:08] Kelly Ramirez: Appreciate and be excited for people that choose to surround themselves with people who are also testing out bigger leaps. Right? 

[00:47:16] Sam Yarborough: Yes. 

[00:47:16] Kelly Ramirez: Pushing the boundaries, because, I mean, Marcus and I did the exercise in our living room, but there were some friends that we told that were like, are you insane? 

[00:47:25] Sam Yarborough: Oh, I'm sure.

[00:47:27] Kelly Ramirez: Why are you doing this? And then there were other friends, many of them here, right, who were like, get the moving van packed up. Like, what do you need? Right? We'll come by with to help out with the girls. All right. A, a friend who has a building downtown, and he was like, come set up. You're in the office. No need to pay any rent.

[00:47:45] Kelly Ramirez: Like, don't worry about it. And so I think speaking out loud, what it is that you do want, not just what you don't want is really important. And then finding other people and being willing to share that in a way that like you can see that you've got support and momentum. You're not alone in making a big change.

[00:48:04] Jason Yarborough: 

[00:48:04] Sam Yarborough: I think that exercise is so brave that the post-it note in the paper, because most, I don't wanna say most, a lot of people just go through day to day and this is fine and this is fine. And then one day they wake up and was like, well that was fine, but it wasn't great. And I think, you know, A, to have the wherewithal to pause and take inventory is so important.

[00:48:29] Sam Yarborough: But b, then to like from that exercise, was it clear the path of action? 

[00:48:35] Kelly Ramirez: I would say yes and no. What we did see, and here's, here's what I think the most important part is. It's like actually getting it out. Like actually being able to articulate it. 

[00:48:45] Sam Yarborough: Articulate it mm-hmm. 

[00:48:45] Kelly Ramirez: And have it live outside of your body instead of just like spinning.

[00:48:49] Sam Yarborough: we have conversations like that all the time, but, and I feel like we're more aligned than most people, couples. But even still, I feel like sometimes our language is just like passing and it's not to have to write it down in a tangible way I think would be a really interesting exercise.

[00:49:06] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. We will report back. Yeah, please do. 

[00:49:08] Jason Yarborough: for those at home or maybe in this room, would you say typically taken signals that it's a time for their next chapter of growth. 

[00:49:15] Jason Yarborough: identity shift or whatever it might be. 

[00:49:17] Kelly Ramirez: Ooh, I love that question. So, I mean, in the simplest words, it's like.

[00:49:23] Kelly Ramirez: My experience in observing others in this place too. It's like, it starts as like a little scratch. Like, eh, and Sammy used those words of like, this is fine, or I'm, I'm fine. 

[00:49:35] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:36] Kelly Ramirez: Um, but I find that when people are ready for the next level, they've gotten to the place of like, it's too, the cost is too great to stay and fine.

[00:49:46] Kelly Ramirez: then the next step is like, how do you, what conditions do you set to allow that? Like, scratchy. Scratchy, like something's go. Right. This doesn't feel, and that's why I think in, we talked about like this big word ontological, but a big part of it is like what's in your body?

[00:50:05] Kelly Ramirez: and for a long time I was like even uncomfortable talking about that. 'cause I was like, blah, blah, 

[00:50:10] Sam Yarborough: woo, woo, 

[00:50:10] Kelly Ramirez: woo, woo, crystal, who's gonna bring out the like, but 

[00:50:14] Sam Yarborough: now we're gonna go get a reiki session after this. Just kidding. But I would, 

[00:50:19] Kelly Ramirez: um, but it's actually true, like, we have so much knowledge, um mm-hmm.

[00:50:24] Kelly Ramirez: And knowing that, we have been taught is wrong or like it's not the right time or people aren't gonna like to hear it. there's a, a story that I, um, share with people about the decision that I made to shut down, um, my business. So I had seven figure e-comm firm. Things were cranking along. We had an awesome team.

[00:50:47] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and in this. Client pitch, literally the middle of it. I started to have this ex like almost out of body experience where I was watching myself giving the pitch. My mouth was moving, like I was saying all the right things. And yet I'm observing like, oh shit, I am not in, like, something's up and, and I'm hearing this voice, right.

[00:51:09] Kelly Ramirez: I don't wanna do this anymore. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna do this anymore. And I ended the pitch, you know, team leaves the room and I turned to the person who had invited me to the pitch. I closed my laptop and I said, Craig, I don't wanna do this anymore. And he Right. He's a partner of mine. We were doing business together.

[00:51:28] Kelly Ramirez: He was like, what do you mean? Like what part? 

[00:51:31] Jason Yarborough: It's going 

[00:51:32] Kelly Ramirez: great. All of it. Um, and that, you know, I had had at that point, a year and a half of working with a coach and tuning to listen. And there were moments in my life that I had felt like that, but I had stuffed it down. It's not like, and even then it was a very inconvenient time 

[00:51:49] Sam Yarborough: Yeah.

[00:51:49] Kelly Ramirez: To share that knowledge. Um, but once it was out on my mouth, I was like, well, that's the most true thing I've ever said. And now I can either choose to ignore it or to do something about it, and I chose to do something about it. Um, it was very difficult, but it's like, just, I'm sharing that as like the moment, right?

[00:52:12] Kelly Ramirez: It might be a big moment like that for somebody. Or it might be like, you're just, you don't wanna say yes anymore. You're ready to say, no, I don't want, I don't want that actually. And I'm ready to start to explore what I do want or how I want to be, how do I wanna feel when I wake up in the morning and Right.

[00:52:31] Jason Yarborough: Make my kids breakfast. Yeah. Or get on the subway. Or like, I don't want a sense of dread. That voice that told you you weren't ready anymore. I'm sure it kinda started out as that scratch. So like on a scale of one to 10, like a scale of one to 10, how loud did that voice get before you were like, you know what F it?

[00:52:47] Jason Yarborough: I'm done. 

[00:52:48] Kelly Ramirez: I mean, I started to notice things in my, in my own life, in my relationships.

[00:52:53] Kelly Ramirez: Like one of the steps that I took that I thought would like, help me resolve the noise as like I decided to stop drinking alcohol. Um, for a long, long time, like in my career, um, the roles that I had always had, like an entertainment or performance or like, you know, take the clients out, wine them and dine them 

[00:53:12] Kelly Ramirez: I had like Party Kelly and like, then there was business Kelly and. I found that like when I removed the alcohol, I was able to, he, like, I had to sit with a lot of feelings or reactions or things that, um, that were uncomfortable. I think also starting to see more clearly what the impact was to my relationships with Right.

[00:53:38] Kelly Ramirez: My husband, my kids. Mm-hmm. Friends of mine. Like how I saw myself showing up in my life, um, that I, I didn't like. Um, and it was confusing because I was like, but wait, I, but I'm successful, My life is good. 

[00:53:54] Sam Yarborough: This is fine. This is, 

[00:53:56] Kelly Ramirez: so can that be our cue? That's like the, um.

[00:54:00] Jason Yarborough: The meme with the dogs fire. It's like everything's fine, 

[00:54:04] Kelly Ramirez: but you're like, it does, the temperature has to get to a point where you, you make the choice because here's the other thing, nobody else is going to tell you, your best friend, your spouse, like, they're not gonna be like, Hey, I think it's time to do some really hard shit.

[00:54:19] Jason Yarborough: Yeah. 

[00:54:19] Kelly Ramirez: He told me. 

[00:54:20] Jason Yarborough: I really, I really like the quote. Like, no one's coming to save you. 

[00:54:23] Sam Yarborough: Yeah, that's 

[00:54:23] Kelly Ramirez: true. It's so true because also, like you being fine allows others to be fine. Oh, 

[00:54:30] Jason Yarborough: It allows them to also be okay with your fine. Like they don't know the best of what you have to offer 

[00:54:35] Sam Yarborough: I wanna talk about this really quickly too, because I feel like you, you used the word inconvenient. Mm. I think that is none. None of this is convenient. 

[00:54:45] Kelly Ramirez: 

[00:54:45] Sam Yarborough: None of this is easy. Like, and there's not like, it's not like you told that person, Craig. 

[00:54:52] Sam Yarborough: Like, I don't wanna do this anymore.

[00:54:53] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. And then it was like, okay, well what do you wanna do? There's a great 

[00:54:56] Kelly Ramirez: Right, yeah. 

[00:54:56] Sam Yarborough: Job right there that pays really well that you can just walk right into like, they were real consequences to these decisions. And the courage that that takes is immense. 

[00:55:07] Kelly Ramirez: I agree with you. For anybody that makes that kind of step right?

[00:55:11] Kelly Ramirez: Without like, knowing logically or like slotting into like, oh, because I'm not doing this, I'm going to do this thing. 

[00:55:19] Kelly Ramirez: So I think too, um, especially once you've got into a role where you're, you become responsible for other people's livelihood, 

[00:55:25] Kelly Ramirez: When I made that decision, I also had a team. Mm-hmm. You know, we were up to a team of 10. Um, one of the people who was on my team was moving into a full-time role. This happened in September, in full-time role in January. That was brand new to her. She was Right. Like, I shared before my limited belief is I have to be responsible, which kept me Right.

[00:55:44] Kelly Ramirez: Constrained small. I think I also had feelings of like, well, I can't, I can't stop 

[00:55:51] Kelly Ramirez: Because I have to be responsible. 

[00:55:53] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:55:54] Kelly Ramirez: What I wasn't seeing that like. Actually the bravest, the most impactful thing that I could do was tell the truth that I knew to be true, and then trust that those that were around me, that I was engaged in, were able to hear that maybe they didn't like it.

[00:56:13] Kelly Ramirez: It made things inconvenient for them as well. I mean, that was the hardest conversation I've ever had to have professionally, to go back into my office and hold a meeting with my team and say, I've made a decision to roll down this business. 

[00:56:26] Sam Yarborough: The meeting went great, but 

[00:56:29] Kelly Ramirez: there were tears. 

[00:56:30] Sam Yarborough: Oh, I'm sure. 

[00:56:30] Kelly Ramirez: I mean, we had built something really special together, but I also was able to say to them, my heart is no longer in this. I cannot ask you to commit your days and your time and your talent to this business that I know. I am no longer the person to run and build.

[00:56:52] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:53] Kelly Ramirez: I don't know what it means. Um, but I need to be honest with you about that. And, I was able to do that through. I think having worked with a coach who was able to see, help me see that. It's like, you know, there's another phrase, I don't know if it's a cliche yet, but like, clear is kind.

[00:57:11] Kelly Ramirez: Right? Like not, 

[00:57:12] Sam Yarborough: I've never heard it, so you're good. 

[00:57:13] Kelly Ramirez: Okay. Yeah. Like some of the teams that I work with now, um, have trouble like saying things that they think aren't nice. Right. Or like shaking the boat. 

[00:57:23] Sam Yarborough: Hmm. 

[00:57:23] Kelly Ramirez: But the more that we like cover or paper things up, the bigger the issue is gonna be when it finally explodes.

[00:57:30] Sam Yarborough: Totally. 

[00:57:31] Kelly Ramirez: Um, so I took us in a little bit of a different direction there, but what I wanted to share was like, when you do make, when you know what is true for you, and you start. Making strides in that direction. There will be people that don't understand it, question it. Right. Might have some short term feelings about it.

[00:57:56] Kelly Ramirez: They're uncomfortable, they're inconvenienced. But I was allowing that to like almost build a cage around me. 

[00:58:04] Sam Yarborough: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:05] Kelly Ramirez: And to this day, every single member of that team that I had to share that feedback with, we are advocates of each other. Friends. Right. I admire what they've gone on to build and do.

[00:58:18] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and I'm really happy with how I was able to show up in my own integrity in that conversation. Um, it was shitty and there were a lot of tears and I was really worried about it. I think, I don't think I slept for two or three nights before it. Um, but once I said it, it was like, well, yes, that is true.

[00:58:37] Jason Yarborough: to bring this home, I mean, I don't know how we, we 

[00:58:39] Kelly Ramirez: went a lot of different places. I hope this is okay. We like just went on a ride together's. Great. 

[00:58:43] Sam Yarborough: It's amazing. Yeah. And I, 

[00:58:45] Jason Yarborough: it feels like we did a live coaching session. 

[00:58:47] Sam Yarborough: It does. That's how I feel every time we go on a walk with Kelly. I'm like, 

[00:58:52] Kelly Ramirez: I love that.

[00:58:53] Kelly Ramirez: Right. I think that like, whether it's a coach or a mentor or a peer, like I know I saw you, Sam share something, um, on LinkedIn actually about like, making time to have conversations with others. And I think you had offered your time. Is that something that you've done? 

[00:59:10] Sam Yarborough: Oh yeah. 

[00:59:10] Kelly Ramirez: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:59:10] Kelly Ramirez: Mm-hmm. that's another tool right, to kind of pull us out of like, it's fine, I think, is finding those people that are willing to get into the deep end. 

[00:59:21] Sam Yarborough: I like that. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:59:22] Kelly Ramirez: And be real, Our nervous system loves chitchat, like loves, um, icebreaker like conversations, surface level conversation, right?

[00:59:30] Kelly Ramirez: Because it feels right. We know what to expect. But I think like when I think about times that I built up enough like courage or bravery to make a big leap, I didn't do it in a silo. Like I always had people that I was, you know, able to share some of that with Yeah. At a real level without the fear of like, oh, they're gonna think I've effed up, or they're gonna think I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:59:53] Kelly Ramirez: So I think that too, like is a reminder for me in our conversation today of how important it's to keep cultivating those types of relationships with people. 

[01:00:02] Sam Yarborough: Definitely 

[01:00:03] Jason Yarborough: love it. Okay. So we should bring this home for time's sake. Uh, let's end it the way we, we started it. What, uh, what epics do you have, on the calendar for this year?

[01:00:16] Kelly Ramirez: I love this because 

[01:00:16] Sam Yarborough: I know these. 

[01:00:18] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, so yeah, so Sam asked me this question. We went on a walk. I've actually, you know, 

[01:00:23] Jason Yarborough: well, I did not know this. 

[01:00:24] Kelly Ramirez: No, no, no. You, you. Same as, it's a great answer to share. Good question. Um, I've actually decided this year to shift it a little bit. Okay. So last year was really focused right on, um, like the physical training, getting out doing these big log runs.

[01:00:41] Kelly Ramirez: Um, they were so fun. I learned a lot. But I, this year, for me, as I think about my ethics, as more of like going inside, I think I'm ready for that. So as an example, one of the practices I came across, um, is called a like focusing. Have you heard of focusing? 

[01:00:59] Jason Yarborough: I don't think so. I know what focusing is, but 

[01:01:01] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah.

[01:01:01] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. But as a practice. As a practice. So, um, so that, it's like similar to meditation, but um, you can work with a trained practitioner and the intent is rather than, uh, aiming to like clear your mind and remove like thought and awareness about. Or just like the spin, you're actually tuning the ability to listen more deeply.

[01:01:26] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and so for this year, I'm working on, or my epics are more around like learning new things, so like neuroplasticity. Um, and one of the new things that I'm learning and working with a practitioner on is, um, this focusing practice. So we meet every two weeks. 

[01:01:42] Sam Yarborough: Nice. 

[01:01:43] Kelly Ramirez: Um, and I get to show up and, um, be a participant and, um, sort of have a facilitated session where I have the ability to go a little bit deeper into like what I am here, what my body is telling me, what my knowing Right.

[01:02:01] Kelly Ramirez: Knows. That's a little, a little out there for me to even say. Um, but I, I think it's that it, so I think rather than like big adventures, the theme is like tuning. 

[01:02:13] Jason Yarborough: I like that. 

[01:02:14] Kelly Ramirez: Yeah. 

[01:02:15] Jason Yarborough: That's awesome. Very cool. 

[01:02:16] Sam Yarborough: 

[01:02:16] Kelly Ramirez: Oh, this is really fun conversation.

[01:02:17] Kelly Ramirez: This is so cool you guys. Thank you. Kelly. If somebody wants, wants to 

[01:02:20] Sam Yarborough: learn more, where do they go? Yeah, 

[01:02:22] Kelly Ramirez: where do they 

[01:02:22] Sam Yarborough: find you? 

[01:02:22] Kelly Ramirez: So on LinkedIn. Okay. Kelly Ramirez. Um, and then my coaching practice is called Elemental Leadership and my website is welcome to elemental.com. 

[01:02:33] Sam Yarborough: Amazing. Well, I'm grateful to call you a friend.

[01:02:36] Sam Yarborough: Thank you for being our first in person. This was very fun. Love 

[01:02:39] Kelly Ramirez: it. I thought we did a good 

[01:02:40] Jason Yarborough: job. 

[01:02:40] Sam Yarborough: It, it's 

[01:02:40] Jason Yarborough: fantastic. 

[01:02:41] Sam Yarborough: Yeah. We'll see what happens when we, when we listen, look back. But 

[01:02:45] Jason Yarborough: I hope the audio captured both. Who knows? We'll see. 

[01:02:48] Sam Yarborough: Friends, thank you so much for being here, as always, Kelly. It's been a pleasure.

[01:02:53] Sam Yarborough: And we'll see you next time. 

[01:02:54] Jason Yarborough: See y'all.