Alice Hart-Davis : Tweakments, Exosomes & What Actually Works For Aging Skin

00:00 Meet Alice Hart Davis
01:58 How Treatments Began
04:14 Buzzwords and Exosomes
08:41 Treatments vs Lifestyle
10:28 SPF That You’ll Use
11:36 Cosmoprof Finds
13:34 Liposomal Skincare Truths
15:44 Starting Your Journey
18:27 Microneedling and IPL
21:36 Needles to Surgery Spectrum
23:12 Jaw Asymmetry Chat
24:42 Polynucleotides Hype Check
27:54 Oral Nucleotides Debate
30:11 Gummies and Underdosing
32:37 Why We Chase Youth
34:10 Sculptra and Facelift Fears
39:54 Bone Loss and Face Aging
41:40 Fat Transfer and Nano Fat
44:16 Mini Arm Lift Talk
45:33 Squeamish but Curious
46:29 Hairline Fix Surgery
47:10 Amino Acids Prevention
47:26 Collagen Origin Story
51:41 Tripeptide Science Explained
56:51 Proof and Credibility
58:46 Real World Results
01:00:44 Vegan Collagen Mythbusting
01:04:43 Inflammation and Moisturising
01:08:27 Spicules and Microneedling
01:12:48 K Beauty and Longevity Trends
01:17:16 Toxicity and Water Filters
01:18:30 CEO Brain Testing
01:26:36 Wrap Up and Goodbye

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I've interviewed lots of people. I've sat across from names you would recognize, people with millions of followers, household names, and hand on heart, the guest I am most excited about today is one I really respect. Alice Hart Davis is a journalist. She coined the word tweakments and she spent 25 years in clinics, conferences, and on treatment beds asking every single question that you were too afraid to ask. She then writes it up with a kind of rigor and honesty that I really respect and is genuinely rare in this industry. So here's what I want to say about Alice, and I'm going to say it direct to her face because I mean it. Her approval really matters to me more than any celebrity endorsement, any influence or partnership, or any famous face that I could have put on a campaign because she doesn't get bored, she doesn't get dazzled, and she has seen and tried everything in the industry. She will tell you exactly what she thinks and whether the industry likes it or not. So for those of you who care about what you put in your body or on your body and you're listening to this podcast, she is the person you would want in your corner. Alice Hart Davis, it's a genuine honor to have you on today. Welcome to the show. Thank you. What an intro.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I've got to try and keep her straight face. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

No, I mean it. I genuinely do. I remember meeting you for the first time when we went on Tash's Tash Talks. And I was like, I was really I remember texting Tash saying, oh no, I'm like, I'm really intimidated by her because I really for goodness sake, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I'm really extraordinary because I know what you have achieved with your products, which is really remarkable. So I couldn't wait to hear what you had to say. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. But let's go back to you. So you coined the word tweakments. I'm not sure I did, but I have popularized it.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Okay, okay. So, okay, let's talk about that. So um, yeah, you did popularize it. I think no one was no one's been writing about tweakments as long as you have. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

You were in the newspaper industry. For sure, for years. Yeah. Um, and I started writing about these procedures rather early because I was writing about health on the London Evening Standard. And the standard, it's a local paper, but it thinks like a national, always wants to be on top of everything that's going on in the city. And the boss came over one morning and said, There's all these doctors doing stuff to people's faces with like needles and lasers. And I and I I said, I don't know. And he said, Well, get out there, get out there and find out. So this was about 97, 98. So I did get out there and I found um dermatologists in Harley Street or in private hospitals who were using lasers. I found cosmetic doctors, GPs who had retrained in injectables using toxins, neuromodulators like Botox and other brands are available, and um plastic surgeons doing all the usual work, but alongside them nurses who had learnt to inject um fillers, which back then were usually collagen because all the hyaluronic acid injectables were only just coming along. So since then, um yeah, I followed it with immense interest. There wasn't a great deal of writing required about it back then because everybody was like, oh, this is very strange and scary. But it's picked up momentum, and then it got to a point um about nine years ago where I thought I need to write a book about all this because I would get so many questions about it. Um I thought if I put it all down and then create a website around it just to have that information out there. And we should say the book is called The Treatments Guide. Yeah, the book's out of date, actually, it needs to be needs to be readown, but but the um I will one day, one day when it all slows down. But the website has all the information about what these treatments are, how they work. It it's not particularly exciting that information, but if people what people need to know is to understand what these things are before they get into them. I think people rush around thinking, oh, salmon span facials or that plasma thing that sort of Shirley Ballast is doing. Do I I want that? And you think you you need to know what it is, how it works, and find a practitioner to tell you whether it might be appropriate for you before you just jump in because it sounds cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, and there's a lot of buzzwords getting thrown around.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

There's a lot of buzzwords.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

I oh my litmus test for anything is usually I usually get my hair done before each podcast, and I go to the hairdressers and it's a proper Liverpool Scouse hairdresser, and it's boots on the ground info in there. So it whenever I'm they're always asking, or are you you are saying what are they picking next? So I'll say to the room, because up in Liverpool, we are like if you're in a room with hairdressers, everyone's chatting. Okay. So there can be four or five people getting their hair done, then you've got four or five hairdressers doing hair, the receptionist, whatever, but it's all a big chat then. It's absolutely amazing. And I'm always like, Oh, you know, so I've got like a red light specialist on today, guys. What do you think you know about red light? And then you get an understanding of what they know or don't know, and it helps me lead questions that way. Or um I'll say, uh, you know, what do you know about exosomes? And they're going like half the room and be like, never heard of it. Half of them tonight say, Yes, I've had it. Or it's a good test to see where we're at, what they know, what they think they know. Um, but yeah, there's let's use exosomes as as an example because that's something that I'm seeing getting chucked around everywhere. And when I was at Cosmoproph, it was on every other stand.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, it's it's into skincare in a way. I don't really understand how exosomes work in skincare. It's hard enough to ascertain what they're actually doing injectably. Well, you can't inject them, but but but topically, yeah, I mean you micro-needle them or ultrasand them into the skin. They're supposed to be just used on top of the skin. Um you can't inject them. They are good for certain things. The plant-based ones seem to be very good as an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory. The other ones, well, the human-derived ones, are not legal in the UK or Europe.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, a lady on the stand told me that because she was showing me the human-derived stem cell ones, and I was like, okay, she was like, Where are you from? And I said the UK, she was like, You can't say no.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah. I I was working at a conference in Monaco recently um launching some scientific research behind a human-derived exosome, which has got amazing scientific results from the trials they've done in the past year. But yeah. What about the ethics? The the ethics, well, I mean, these things are developed in countries where the laboratories and whatever, it's fine. I mean, you're not you're not.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

I had this like an idea of like in any way. You know, they're getting these umbilical cords, you know. Who knows where they're harvesting them from? How are they storing them?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Are they they're they're not usually they don't need a continuous supply of umbilical cords or or whatever else, or whether it's from red deer or human-derived, or or whether those are uh human fat derived um exosomes. Um, again, in in Korea a lot of it comes from the um the you know the Lipo clinics who will will have you know people will have agreed to uh have have the essentially the waste products taken for this. So it's amazing. Yeah, I mean there's a theoretically uh DNA um contamination risk, but I think it is theoretical because the purification processes are so so thorough. But uh so at the top end uh it it's all pretty complicated. Whether whether the benefits of those are transferring on into a product that claims to have exosomes in its skincare, I I really don't know, so I can't really speak to that. I mean well.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

It's absolute buzz. It was literally every other stand. It was exomes, exosomes, exosomes.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Oh, Tony, you you there's there's a there's um a bacterially derived one. Have you come across that? No, I don't think that's that is from um from Dermologica actually. They're using it in their um in their salon treatments alongside microneedlings, they do a lot of microneedlings, so it's it's a good partner for that. Um they showed some pretty impressive results from the trials they've done. Yeah. Uh so watch this. You need you need good advice, and then you need to uh trust the people that you know where you're putting your money, because all these new things they tend to cost quite a lot. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

I also think and not to be sound like a I don't know, awful, but it's the cherry on top of a great lifestyle. Yeah, too. There is literally no point spending 200 pounds on a topical cream. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Well, well, the key thing is, yeah, the treatments, um, you know, I I talk about them a lot because I I do think they're an amazing development in the past 30 years. You know, there didn't used to be anything in between a skin cream and a facelift, you know, in terms of managing how you look as you age. And now there is this entire mass of stuff. So to whatever level you're comfortable with stepping up for intervention, whatever budget you've got, you know, but these things are a want, they are not a need, and they are expensive and they are absolutely not for everybody. And I do accept that it's it's quite a fundamental difficulty in talking about them because you know people see that these things are out there, they see a lot of famous faces looking amazing. Um, and yet it it it it comes at a cost, and and you need to have good advice to find the right expert, etc. etc. So definitely, and so that lifestyle stuff is is incredibly important because you can do a lot for yourself. Just yeah, yeah, having a sleep, sleep stress, like and it's free diet, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

If you really yeah if you really wanted to do, you know, eating a great whole foods diet, having great sleep, hitting your protein, uh weight training, all those things foundationally really on an absolute zero budget. Yeah. If after that you have some budget left to spend on tweakments and you don't want to go as heavy as a baselift or anything, then yeah, yeah, there's plenty of available treatments out there.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Um SPF, that's one thing. And for people who don't believe in skincare, obviously just just just add SPF after all those lifestyle things before you step up to the what should we be looking for in an SPF? Oh one that one that works, it sounds like a sort of glib and stupid answer to say, um, and I would have said that anything that says SPF 30, SPF 50 will be delivering that, but then there was some research, wasn't there, recently that showed that there were some SPFs, I think this is in Australia that had a like a four rate. Well, they claimed to be 30 or 50 and they were only scoring a four rating. But any product that's been through that the you that has met the right standards ought to be giving you that protection. So I would say find one you like the texture of that you can afford and just use it every day because it's the and I know in the UK we don't always have the amount of sunshine we've got this past week. We've had amazing sunshine, and it is now April as strong as it will be in August, and and people forget that. But even on the less sunny days, it's not like we're on a Mediterranean beach, but it's the kind of drip-drip-drip effect of UV, UV damage building up over time. Accelerating aging. So I I think it's worth it from that point of view, just minimizing that.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

I saw two incredible sunscreens in Cosmopath that I fell in love with. Ooh, tell me, tell me. One genius, right? It was in a little compact, circular compact, and you did twisted in it came up like a sharpener, and it was a balm that had a pressed like powder puff thing. When you put it on, went to a powder. So balm to a powder.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

And does it look like a makeup give you a kind of makeup? So it would give you a how did it get all over your clothes?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Well, it's supposed to be instead of powdering yourself, you know, with a translucent thing, it would you put that on instead.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

And so that was it's a good handbag one. Yes, yeah. But that brand also had one that I absolutely loved. It's a brand called Peslo. They don't sell it in the UK, it's a Korean brand. And it was a clear, um, it was a clear sunscreen, but it would had capsule technology in it. Ooh, lovely. So you get those reflective pigments, yeah, and it'll burst all over you, and it was just gorgeous. And that was like a shine, that was like a five in one. You would put that on as your skincare, put it on your face, your neck, you're ready for the day. You've got glossy.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

So you've got skincare, yeah. Like serum and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

And it was like 50 plus plus plus plus. Amazing. And it was clear. I loved it. Loved it. I've actually texted them and they're just fucking me off every time. They just don't get back to me. I was like, Where can I buy this in the UK? They were like, um, this Korean brand. I was like, Yeah, I never met you at Cosm Prop yet. I was like, Well, can you wholesale it to you, mate? Ghosted, mate, nothing. I was like, Oh, you couldn't give your samples back when you No they said if you come on the last day at Cosm Prop, but I wasn't there for the last day because they were selling them for £10. But I'm a bit like, just send me something for God's sake. I've just done a whole piece on you. I spoke about you twice on the podcast, and I'm about to put you on my Instagram. Yeah, so I'll get them, don't worry. But um, they were a really exciting brand. Um, but yeah, I I I loved it. Oh, I would have white labelled that straight away. I thought it was incredible. Um, the other thing I was seeing a lot was liposomal skincare. I'll say this is my remit. I know this wheelhouse. And I would argue that it says it liposomes, would it be? No. Because they were selling it for like seven pounds. Because they've been a popular delivery system in skincare for quite a while. They have, but to get it right, I know that I know the manufacturing techniques that you have to do to get it right. Okay, yeah. And I would I would argue not at that price.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

No, no chance. Yeah, that's that's a difficult thing, isn't it? If you if anyone's talking about a complex technology, you are very unlikely to find it in a in a high street price.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Well, I I know there's brands, you know, on high street stores that are just saying that they are and they're not. And even liposomes are really hard to do. So even at like time of manufacturing when they started, it was liposomal. What they fail to do is stabilize the liquid a lot of the time. So inside yeah, in yeah, so they won't stabilize it. So the liposome, after they've made it, will then just degrade. So after about five to seven days of it being in its packaging, all the liposomes have gone. The actives are now good. Well, you're paying for the premium price, thinking you're gonna get premium products. Yeah, yeah. If I told you some of the brands that I've I I told you about one outside, but there's a You did, you did, yeah. There's a couple of others that you will see knocking around. And if I showed you some of the microbiology reports I've got, it's uh harrowing. It's well, it's just the worst thing is they know about it. These brands know. And the consumers being taken for a ride. Yeah, because I know it's been flagged to them. I know these reports have been flagged to the owners of the business, and they're so arrogant they don't care. Wow. And I'm a bit like I feel like setting up a consumer website. I really do sometimes because if I had time, I would do that. Because it is something I'm really passionate about about bringing some standards and and regulation to an industry that's completely unregulated and that can just be bought by influencers and when you brave your way into the supplements industry where there's very little regulation, is there? Yeah, absolutely. So um it is the Wild West, but we can we can get into that a little bit later. So um, for somebody who's just starting out on their tweakments journey, um, give me some of the hero things. I mean, you've done so many things over the years. Yeah. Like so, like I don't even know if you could remember how many treatments you've had done over the years, but is there any that stand out for you as being?

SPEAKER_01 16:03

As being like, wow, worth the money I would do that loads. This is this is such a difficult thing to ask. It depends. Um something that's a wire for me might not be right for somebody else. So when people say, always say, What's the best thing? Yeah, you try, and you think, well, if it's was it the best for frown lines, was it the best for pigmentation, was it the best for this, or was it an easy, an easy thing? I don't know. Um, but back to people who are starting their journey, what you really need is to find a good practitioner, somebody who seems who is he's is well qualified, who has preferably a medical background and has trained a lot in aesthetics. Just because you beat a GP doesn't mean you're gonna be good at doing the stuff you need or that specific training. Then you need time to put that training into practice. It's almost artistry, is the way it's yeah, I was gonna say after after that, uh you know, you can you can see what somebody's done in the way of training, you can see how many years experience they've had, you can see what the people in their clinic look like, you know, how does their own face look? Does it scare you when you look at it, in which case leave now? Or or is that do they just look you know good, fresh, rested? Um, and and then yet artistry is something uh so indefinable, you know, you because are they capable of creating loveliness in in a face is a really uh tricky one because it's it's not the same as being technically competent. You know, a lot of these guys, and when I say guys, I mean women as well, they they uh uh do art, they sketch, they sculpt, they uh have a real appreciation for art, and that always fascinates me when you see them sharing that kind of thing on their socials. You think, oh right, yeah. So this helps them look at your particular face and um think what would enhance it, but they they've got to listen to what you're saying, not just decide, oh yeah, we could do whatever. Um, they've got to listen to what you want and then think how they can help you within the budget that you've got. Uh skincare is always the first step for any practitioner. They will want your skin to be in excellent condition before they start doing anything else to it. And you can kind of see how far you can get to making your skin look more glowy and consistent and firm just with skincare before you start worrying about what else you might do. But but having got through that, I say microneedling is a pretty good treatment to have. It's it's really underrated because it is um it's not very sexy, it's not sexy, it's radio frequency microneedling, or all these um ultrasound treatments or plasma treatments or exosome treatments or what have you. But just plain microneedling is quite a bargain compared to a lot of these other things. You know, it'll be a hundred, two hundred quid compared to thousands that some of these things can be. Um and it can help with um collagen production, it will help with skin texture, maybe with pigmentation. So that is a place to start. Or or or fancy that's the wrong word, but facials, advanced facials. So the kind of facials that throw in a bit of needling or a bit of laser or you know, red light if laser seems too scary, just to amplify the results that you're getting and give you something that will have a longer-term benefit if you're consistent with it. Um light treatments is the other thing. So I could go on, so you'll have to stop me a really good thing. No, no, it's okay. Things like things like um intense past light for taking down pigmentation, because we tend to think a lot of the time about wrinkles as being a real marker of aging, but actually, when we look at somebody else's um face, we we we judge aging from the the sort of the weathering of the skin, the pigmentation, the roughness, the red, red and brown pigmentation. There's been some really nice work done on this by um evolutionary sort of sort of scientists. This this was something way back, but they took um they photographed endless women um between the ages of like 10 and 70. They took that their their sort of skin tones and translated it into um into like a like a mask of of the pigmentation and draped that mask on a computer model over a standard model. So the only difference between them was the skin weathering patterns. And then got people to assess just by looking at all these different faces, how old is this one, that one, the other one? And people were astonishingly good at guessing the ages of people just from those patterns of pigmentation on their face. So, but we don't always think of that. So what you can do about the pigmentation is a treatment like intense past light or or laser, which will um like a CO2 laser. No, mm less than that. Much less than that. You know, and an IPL is a laser goes to one single depth in the skin. IPL is more of a sort of scattergun effect, but it can target brown pigment or red pigment, like thread veins, rosacea, and just bring the levels of it down so the skin is calmer, less inflamed, and more even in tone. Yeah um, which is which is which is great. Yeah. But things like thread veins, people always say, Oh, it didn't work because they came back. Well, if your skin is creating lots of these things, it will go on creating more. Doesn't mean it didn't work, but you know, th those are fairly straightforward things to do before you want to have needles actually injected in your face. Yeah. For a lot of people, needles is a real sticking point. Um, uh no joke intended. Um in the if you think of everything you could do to improve the look of your face from skincare and makeup down this end of the line right up to cosmetic surgery at this end. And people will be comfortable with a certain number of things along the way, you know, maybe cosmetic dentistry or you know, we all used to lie about tinting our. Hair way back because it was, oh no, I've just been in the sun these highlights. Um and then you get to light treatments like like the like the lasers or or what have you. And celebs used to be comfortable talking about those even 10-15 years ago when they deny having anything else done. And then for most people, then the injectable treatments, the toxins, the fillers, and now all the polynucleotides and stuff, those are usually where people start thinking, Oh, is this actually cheating rather than being simply beneficial, something for skin health? Uh and then very few people actually get as far as or have the budget for or the appetite for surgery, the other end of it. Anyway, there'll be a line, there'll be a point somewhere along this line where people will say, I'm happy to do this much, but no more. Or um they judge they do tend to judge people who've gone further or I'm definitely no judgment.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

I uh I just I get scared. I think, oh my god, what if it goes wrong? Yeah, of course. It's like things like oh my god, I spend all day along looking in the mirror, like pulling my eyebrows up like this.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Come on, come on, what is there to do in your lovely face?

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Oh you even do. Oh my god, I don't even mind saying it. I've got a consultation with a jaw doctor, maxophilio surgeon, because I'm like heavier on one side, and this podcast doesn't bloody help. I sit on this side because this is You're all asymmetric.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Look, come on, I have never noticed it.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Well, I notice it every day.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

So I only do Does it need a surgeon? Does it need a surgeon?

SPEAKER_02 23:31

I'm paid him a lot of money just to give him an opinion. Yeah, um, and we'll see. He says, look, what I would like to do, because I I know it's like jaw-breaking territory this, which I'm not gonna do this, but if he says, actually, we could probably just do a tiny little lipo under that chin there, and we can pull it back there, and you have the more specifical face? Done. Okay, great. That'd be great.

unknown 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

That's what I'm hoping he's gonna say. Um, but we'll we'll see. That's not mine. Staring looking for shit. Look at I'm just making this. It doesn't look as bad. I've always had it though. I looked back on pictures of me when I was about five.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

We're not symmetrical.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

And I've got it there. So it's it's uh you know, I was born like that, so I can't do anything about it. Because everyone goes, Oh, it's maybe the way you've slept. I was like, No, it wasn't. No, it's my jaw, it's an asymmetrical journey that if it happened to my child, I would have had it sorted when she was younger. And I always say to my mum and dad, Why haven't you got this dealt with? And they're like, You you're overthinking.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

No one's gonna see that till you bring it to their attention.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Exactly. All my podcast listeners are like, all right, big joke. I'm like Chevy Chase from this side. Absolutely hate that.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

You don't, I'm switching really quite close.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Um, polynucleotides, that's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

I've had them done myself. Did you notice any difference?

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I don't know. I had them done under my eyes, absolutely hurt like hell. I look like someone had beaten the shit out of me for a few days.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Because you have them injected under your eyes. Yeah, yeah. The manufacturers prefer it done that way. Yeah. But yeah, bruises.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Lovely practitioner, Dr. Yusra, you know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

She's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Trust her implicitly. So she's like, Yeah, you'll be okay. Um, yeah, so it just yeah, I was a bit bruised, but under eyes, I'm really obsessive about. I really know, and you're right with about the sleep thing. If I have underslept the next day, oh my goodness, I got so many bags.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Um, so sleep is so important for that. And I just don't want to get that like I'm doing everything I can to stave off that, you know, crepiness or whatever happens under the yeah, for as long as possible, I suppose. Preventative, I'm going for skincare, skin. Well, I'm doing it all that anyway. SPA.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

I know you are, I know you are. Yeah, yeah. Healthy lifestyle supplements all right. All of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Yeah, anything I can throw the book at it. Yeah, yeah. But um, so polynucleotides, yeah. So what do you think of it? Is the evidence there? Is it worth the hype?

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Polynucleotides. I I I I slightly struggle with this. I've um spent time with one of the lovely manufacturers who makes um a couple of the very big brands of this, and they have loads of studies, but then I get uh lovely professors of this and that coming up to me at the aesthetics conferences that I I go to uh religiously and saying, Look, you seem very keen on these things, but the uh the the the proper research isn't really there. Oh, but some people get great results with them, others less so. And some of the doctors actually say to me, um they they get great results with some patients and not others, but they can't decide how it's gonna be, who is gonna do well on them and and who won't. And then other manufacturers come back and say, What people need in their skin if the polynucleotides aren't doing the job on their own, uh more amino acids to kind of like a pre-fertilizer for the skin that the polynucleotides can work on to stimulate the fibro. Fibroblast is the word I'm struggling towards, the the the cells that actually will will produce more collagen in the skin, which is what we want to make it all nice and firm. So then you're talking about products like um Sunicos or Jalipro or Rajurin, which have um hydrating ingredients plus the amino acids. But I I don't really know because people don't do head-to-head studies of this one versus that one.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Agreed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Um polynecleotides have absolutely been on a total roll because what once they got christened the salmon sperm facial, they are not a facial, they are injectable treatments. They are not salmon sperm, they are fish DNA, but it's close enough. Uh fish DNA taken from the gonads of salmon trout. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

I'm I'm really interested in nucleotides on a different level. I believe so I it I give them to my little girl who is three. Okay. Nobody has ever heard of them when I talk about it. They are for me foundational to you know, a growing healthy body. They were the building blocks of your DNA, and if you supplement them, they won't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Okay, this is not something I know about you, so you can tell me, tell me.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

So much so that I'm gonna introduce it into a new product that we're doing. Oh, okay. So you've always got a new product up your sleeve and with that. Oh, I've had them, I have them up my sleeve all the time. It's just because they're like a two-man band. I know, and I'm across everything all the time, and I'm a bit of a control freak, especially on evidence. Where is this coming from? Who's the manufacturer? Who's the the supply chain for me is I'm obsessive with. How does it work with nucleotides? So um these are orally supplemented, yeah. Supplemented. And again, it can bolster. Imagine your body is like loads of photocopies of cells, and your body is constantly photocopying those cells all the time. Yeah. So you want to the cell, you want it to be as healthy as possible for it to photocopy. So they don't get all blurry with age. Absolutely. But do you need them at age three?

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yeah. But surely it's when the cells are in danger of becoming those blurry senescent zombie cells is when you really don't want it.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

It supports them, yeah. So the the kid's supplement that a giver has the nucleotides in. And again, it's okay. Really special special ingredient. Um, and I believe everyone should be having them. I I will put them on the map. Okay. I believe they taste like ass. Can I just say that? They don't taste good.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

This is But a lot of supplements taste absolutely rubbish, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Um this is my argument, right? Because sorry, guys and listeners, but I get a lot of feedback and people go, I just don't like the taste, don't like the taste. And I'm like, you know, this ain't just take it. You know, this ain't meant to taste like a like an ice cream. Yeah. But we've been led to believe, especially by the gummy industry or I don't know, electrolytes which are full of sugar and steering, whatever, that your supplements should be tasting like grenade bars. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's it's nonsensical.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Gummies are gummies are rubbish, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Pathetic. I always say gummies are for dummies. If you're looking at that as like uh you've got to look at the consumer who is being, you know, I I feel for them, and I do loads of posts on this, and I'm also like, please don't give it to your children either. And what annoys me is the manufacturers know what they're doing. So what they'll do, and this was an investigation the other day, actually, I think it was by the times, they were underdosing big companies, Wellkid, Boots, Hal um, Hallid Orange. Yeah, yeah. Um, they were making gummies, vitamin D I think they were testing vitamin Dummy gummies. So the NHS recommendation for a gummy in this country, I can't remember what it is now off the top of my head. Let's say it was like a thousand IU. Um, but they were using what was bare minimum in these gummies, and they weren't even meeting that standard anyway. So they could give it the label claims on it, but it wasn't even meeting the NHS guidelines. So on the back of the packet, it would say 100% of your NR, your nutritional reference for the for the day for your child, but it wasn't anywhere in lines with guidance, so it's a bit of a loophole. They they knew what they were doing, they were underdosing them and they were putting them in gummies where the efficacy is absolute shite anyway. And I just think parents have stood there in the aisle of boots or wherever they're buying these things, calling a barrack, because they came out absolutely dreadful in this test, wanting to do the very best for their children, like not knowing where to turn. They trust these brands, and they're just getting it's it at least a Harry Boat isn't anything, it's not masquerading as anything, but that is essentially nutritionally like that that would be on par with those gummies. So I always say please don't take them. And I always recommend a great kid supplement if anybody wants one.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

And and and surely you could reach those minimum nutritional requirements through diet.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Well, yeah, vitamin D is difficult for like little babies, especially ones born in the winter. Yes. Everyone recommends you've got to give them to them, but um, usually get drops. But again, I would argue with a lot of these companies, you know, what's I don't think that they've got the checks and balances in place.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Knowing what I know about the industry. That is something I'm really passionate about, kids' supplements, actually. If there's any other avenue, I would go down the way you'd be that's cloned yourself and Kelly, and you've got a bit more space in you. Yeah, absolutely. But um it I feel like there's lots of industries set up to, you know, offload their women from their money. The aesthetics industry, the way you know, our beauty is our currency, yeah. Every woman wants to look younger or feel younger. Very rare that a woman says, I'm not bothered about my appearance because it they are, it's fundamental.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah, it's really interesting. You you you mentioned that because when you question people about their motivation for having aesthetic treatments, tweakments, um they will usually go to some lengths to say it's not about looking younger, it's about looking fresher, better, whatever. That's something that really irritates me just because you think if it didn't make us look younger on some level, we wouldn't be doing it. If it made you look older, you would not be doing it. You know, you know therefore you do want to look younger, but you're just not admitting it because there's a lot of shame around you know, not accepting your age, etc. I I want a lot younger. I I do totally agree with the the sort of view we we should all be grateful to be to be getting old of because goodness sake, you know, what is the alternative? We all see friends dropping down from one thing or another, but far too often. But but but yeah, that aside, living healthily, um, you then think what else would be nice? I would I would like to not look older.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Same, freeze me, you know, death becomes hair style. Great, I'm grilled with that. Yeah. And I'm throwing the kitchen zinc at it and I and we'll talk about it. Um, sculpture, I know you've had it. Yes. I've had it. Yes. Um, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

There's a lot of people out there who say, well, no, because you're gonna ruin a facelift if you Yeah, but but uh to what I said earlier, there is only a very, very small number of people who will ever seriously go on to have a facelift. Um unless you're planning a facelift within the next two, three years, it's it's it's not an issue. Um and and if you if you're that worried about it, I would go and find your facelift surgeon um and say I would one day like a facelift if I have this treatment now. Is that gonna stop you from treating me at whatever point? Um I I I I I I don't I mean, I do understand why people people run away from it as an idea, you know, but but these biosimulatory treatments, they they do help. I mean, I I'm friends with a lovely um cosmetic surgeon who I must have met 20 something years ago. And I I go and have a chat every uh year or two to catch up with his work, uh, which is always interesting. But I also always want to say, come on then, is it time uh that I should be thinking about a facelift rather than tweakments? And he always laughs and waves. Is it UK-based? Yes, yes, in in Harley Street. Um, and this year I said, Well, what I never ask when I always I when I ask this question is, would you actually ever operate on me given you know you've watched as I've had every um kind of energy-based device, the ones that mash up all the tissues in some people's views while stimulating collagen, possibly the wrong kind of collagen, depending on who's arguing for it or not. Plus, all these injections. I I had a lot of sculpture um 20, nearly 20 years ago, um 2008, 9 through just 12. Um, it it was very popular at the time for um, they were using a lot of it in the lipodystrophy patients who who uh um had got a lot of uh facial hollowing from from pain, HIV, and it was brilliant for that, so it it can fill in, and that had knocked on into the aesthetic clinics, and it was great. I never had any problems with it, with everyone says, oh, it was terrible, it was not all. No, and I had it again last year, and it does take a while to develop the results. Um, we were filming it on behalf of the company that makes it, so we followed up um with a lovely practitioner just up the road here in Liverpool. Yeah, exactly. And um, I think we did that a bit soon because the results weren't I was a bit disappointed. I'd hoped for better results by that stage, but it was only six weeks after the second treatment. Whereas then and that was about April, May, and then later, after a rather stressful summer, people kept saying, Oh, you look good. And well, is that sculpt kicking? Could it be? I think it is, yeah. So, yeah, and there's this this new one called Elaine, and there's various other things, there's there's so many biostimulatory things. But uh if you're really worried about a treatment like that, or radio frequency microneedling or ultrasound or whatever, being a problem for a future facelift, uh go go find your surgeon who you think you might want to see and and say to them, Would this stop you treating me? Because mostly the surgeons say, look, it makes our job a bit more technically difficult, but it does and maybe it means we wouldn't get the result that we would have got if you had never had any treatments. But they are would be lucky these days to find um to have a facelift patient presenting themselves never having had anything done to their face. So usually these things are things they can work around. But there's a lot of very vociferous um surgeons, particularly in the States, who who will say you must not have this or we wouldn't, you know, it wrecks whatever. I I think that there's a lot more give and take within that than most people realise.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Yeah, and just do do you do you. Well, yeah, that that too. Yeah, whatever's right for you. I personally uh wanted it. I got it, I was just about to turn 40, and yours were like, Yeah, you'd be a really good candidate for it. Okay, and what did you see? Um, well, it you know, like it's not like this wow, whoa, it's you know it creeps up on you, doesn't it? It creeps up, and I just think my skin texture's looking good. There'll be times and I think, God, my skin is looking brilliant. You know what I mean? But obviously, I do, and I'd done sculptra, I'd had polynucleotides underneath. I'm obviously taking the tripeptides every single day, and you know, SPFing and you know, try not to actually do too much. No, I mean you've got to do it. And a bit of botox. Too much, yeah. Yeah, that's literally all I've ever had done. I've not had filler, I've not had because people go, You uh Danny will go, You've had filler. I was like, No, I've had sculptures and it's completely different things.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Yeah, that's just a sort of a taunting, and and and your skin's in great condition anyway. It's it's you know, and and and you're ahead of the curve on these things, which is which is great. It's what what's more difficult is working on a sort of menopausal, post-menopausal face where that um skin quality is starting to go, you've lost bone, you've lost fat. You know, what and once what the surgeons also is once there's gravitational descent in the face, then you're never gonna counteract that with non-surgical stuff because uh fillers will fill, they will kind of re-inflate the face from the inside, but they are not going to actually lift, they they give the appearance of lift by restructuring.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

But it's interesting you said bone there, because that is something we've talked about on the pod before. Obviously, I and I didn't know this until a few days ago, but you only start you stop laying down bone after the age of 40. You look realistically. That's whatever your bone you've got around 40s, that's it now for the rest of your life. And you in order for you to keep it, you must be weight training, keeping it as healthy as possible, great diet, all the rest of it. But it's it it's honestly getting shaved away. And I thought, yeah, so your bones in your face, it's okay, you can go to the gym and keep your muscles strong, your legs strong, your glutes strong, hips strong, all that you can work those out. But what do we do for our face?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

It's not like we get. There are some devices. I I don't know why nobody's really got into this, but but sort of slightly percussive stimulatory devices to stimulate the osteoblasts, that's worth a thought. Is it? And so I see the There are various very few of them about. It's um and I don't really I haven't looked very deeply into the science of that, but I think that's a that's a thought. Or um the people who do the biostimulatory injections, um, there's some of them who will do them deep onto the bone because they will stimulate whatever you're injecting into. With things like Sculpture, the protocol is to inject it into the skin. I I should make that very clear. This isn't something that the companies are saying, but there's a fab um injector in Florida, um, Shino Bey, he's uh he's a dermatologist, laser specialist. He's been doing injections deep in the bone on his patients for years, and he talks about this on various podcasts. Um, so I go around the the UK one practitioner's saying, Hey, are you doing this? Are you and one or two of them say, Oh yeah, it's it's really interesting. Right, I've got to get in there, gotta get in there before the before the bone is completely gone. I I I did a fat transfer procedure a few years back where they um the lovely surgeon, this is a guy called Tunchiraki, he built up the um arch, the bow where the bony arches of the face are, you you you've got the one around the forehead, you've got the the sort of cheeks, and then you've got this one. And where they've been losing volume over the years, um replacing the sort of the fat in those areas as a kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Where would they even get fat from you? You're in such good shape.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Very kind, the the there's plenty, they can always um harvest a bit. Yeah, yeah. I've got loads on the back of my arm if they want that. Chuff it in. I went I went to see somebody recently about um he's got a new nanofats protocol, uh, which I was meant to be trying, and he he'd waved me away in July, sort of saying, you know, if we're gonna do this, you know, you need to go and eat croissants or something. I know they didn't say that. Um but then when I went back in September, I uh saw him at a conference, said, right, look, you know, yeah, there's there's there's plenty here, you know, I've I've I've gained at least half a stone for you. But he was very dismissive when I went to um went to see him in the in the clinic to say, right, what would how how would you do this? You know, the the last time they they'd taken the fat from my thighs, and he he he said, no, didn't fancy the fat on my stomach, didn't fancy the the the outer thighs. I said saddlebags, surely, but but he he wanted somewhere where there was two in two fingers width. Would you want it on the front? Well, he said the places he would do were the front of the thigh and the inside of the knee. Yeah. Inside the knees. Oh, that's gonna be four extraction sites. And anyway, we we haven't got around to following this conversation up. Um, let me know how that goes. I'm interested in that. But nanopat, really interesting, really good for skin condition, very expensive. Is it? Yeah. Well, well, because you've got to have the liposuction, it's got to be processed at the place where the specially done. All on the same day. No, it is extracted. Extracted. It's sent down to the lab, which is um compliant with all the HTA human tissue authority regulation and everything. So this has taken ages to set up. It is processed and then it is kept on ice until such a time as you you, your practitioner, summons. Back, so if you had it done younger, it could sit there for years. Oh wow. Anyway, but but that is a palavra in a lot of high-tech stuff. So that's icing on the cake. Yeah. For high net worths and celebs, if you ask me. Oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

But I was looking at an arm lift the other day. I ran my friend up. I rang my friend up. She was like, Oh yeah, I'm alright. Just coming round off a load of drugs. I was like, oh wow, what have you done? And she was like, I just have my arms lipod. I was like, oh my god, what are you like? She just gets it done like as like not an arm lift where you because you end up with a whopping great scarf. This was a guy called Paul Tully in London, and he does the mini arm lift where it oh I takes it like and then puts it into the armpit.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

And and it's um and and it's a much nicer result. So you are gonna have to wear sleeves because it seems if you end up the old-fashioned ones.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Yeah, not the big black brachioprosty. No, this was like it's like a bit of lipo, yeah, J Plasma or Renuvrion, whatever it's called, to tighten it. Yeah, and then he like pulls a skin, yeah, cut away some skin from your armpit, so you get rid of your armpit hair. Ooh, pretty much, and then they'll yeah, and then you get around with your arm because you can't lift anything for well, I I met her for dinner, like about two weeks later, and she was she was finished fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Wow, yeah. Some people are just very brave about stepping up for all of that, aren't they? Oh my god, she then she had a forehead lowered and she's honestly Ooh, with a hairline, yeah. But the result on that quite squeamish is the stupid thing. I mean, I I I I love all this stuff. I'm technically very interested, and I don't mind having it done myself, but I I could not uh watch. I mean, sometimes lovely surgeons, if I've written about their work, they will say a great favour, would you like to come and watch me do this nose thing, this face thing? Um, and it's difficult to say, you know, because a lot of my colleagues who who who do the kind of stuff they are fascinated, they will watch with great detail. I'm not into blood and everything though. I but I I did like conferences and and videos and was it good?

SPEAKER_02 46:12

The forehead lowering, she was like, that's the best thing I've ever done. And I was like, why? Because a lot of people, when they're losing their hair and getting hair loss, they will um automatically think hair transplant, which obviously takes a year for like you, you know, because you're left with like little tufts for ages and it's quite painful and all the rest of it, and they've got to shave the back of your hair and shave it off and put it in. Because I know a lot of girls like they start getting bald there, or if they've got like PCOS hormonal vs, they call it, or they get like they've got PCOS and they start seeing that balding. But this is completely different. Two weeks she was done, no one even noticed. So yeah, so he's in London, and um he just takes a piece of skin out there, he gave him like a mini like eyebrow lift, yeah, and then a brought that forehead stuff. Yeah, yeah. Wow, and she was like, I just wore a headband for two weeks, no one even noticed. That was done. I I was very into it, of course, yeah. I'm well into it. And uh the amino acid thing, I spoke to your drawer the other day and she was like, Do you want some amino acids? I was like, Absolutely, yeah. So I'm I don't know when I'm booked in for that, but I'm booked in for a bit of that. Oh, I look forward to hearing what you make of those. Yeah, and I think it is just preventative for me. Yeah, well, let me tell you about the collagen and how that came about because I was about to tell you about the colours.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Go on, yeah, I'm a big fan of collagen stuff.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yeah, so I was all about preventative and at the time. So the reason how I met the professor that I work with, Professor Mohammed Najla. Um, I was lying in bed one day. This is 100% true story. I was really ill, Googling around the internet, and I was very interested in liposomal technology, and because it's the best of the best, but not everyone does it right. Um, so I find this place and the UK I thought are brilliant, and I'm just like, whatever. I think my journalism background means that I just get on with it, get on the phone to people.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

I'm not and you and you will you you you have a curiosity that you will start looking into every aspect of these things, and then and this was from magnesium products.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

I was like, Okay, he's he seems to be the best I can find in the UK at nano encapsulation. His calibre of his career was outstanding. He had 2,300 Google Scholar articles online, even Yours quite somebody of work. Oh, unbelievable. He's won every award going from Cambridge, wherever. I was like, this is if if this guy can't make a magnesium, no one can. And he was making cancer drugs.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

So you were looking at the liposomal for magnesium.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Yes, okay. So, anyway, so get on the phone, he's attached to this lab, ring them, start chatting, say hi, blah blah blah. I'd like to chat to you. I've got a supplement company, I want to make a really unbelievable, you know, magnesium on steroids, not just white labeling some stuff that's coming out of wherever. I want this to be like absorption off the charts, really lovely synergistic effects in the body, and it's really gonna really help people and really support them. Because I'd read a book by Carol Andean, MD, who had terrified and equally fascinated me all about magnesium. They were sounding the alarm about this magnesium deficiency, which is in every adult, 200 years ago. And this was like a real problem then. Anyway, this book's amazing. I digress. So they were like, Yeah, yeah, this wouldn't be difficult for us. Fantastic, great. So I start chatting to them. As I'm about into my like fifth or sixth phone call with them, just about the whatever the tech, the production, the sampling, whatever. They were like, you know, um, we've been working on another product. They've got some RD on another product. I was like, okay, what is it? They're like, it's collagen. I was like, not interested. You say concentrate on the first thing. Absolutely, shut them down. So you weren't interested. Not interested, not interested. I was like, well, I'm already taking. Why not? Because first things first. I was already taking a collagen supplement at the time. And I was like, oh, I look at the collagen market. Um, this was two, three years ago. Look at how many players you've got in the market, the saturation, the competitors, the this, they're that. I was like, not interested. Don't want to go there with anything like that. You know what I mean? I know people in this space, I know the companies, I can see them fighting between each other all the time. Okay. You know what I mean? In their minds.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Why would you step into that?

SPEAKER_02 50:45

I'm not, yeah, what a headache I'm gonna set myself up to. Let's just like, I was like, not interested. They were like, Well, which products are you taking? Told them like, well, the prof was like, get us his pen out, whiteboard, starts explaining. Well, can I just tell you this is what you're taking, this is what you think you're taking, this is why it's not working for you, this is the starts doing it all as I'm on a Zoom call with him. I was like, okay, I'm interested. So they said, let us send you all. They went, first of all, it's not a collagen, it's a tripeptide. And I didn't really understand what it was talking about at this point. And I was like, send me some. So I sent they send it to me. I gave a bottle to my partner, one to my dad. I'm trying it myself. They sent me like a good few of them. And then I was like, okay, let's have a dedicated zoom. And I was zoomed, explain what this does.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

So and also the difference between uh a tripeptide, because I've had other people say, Oh, they're they're all tripeptides in the end.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Well, they're not.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Okay. They're not. Now, how is that?

SPEAKER_02 51:41

So um, you've got hydroly, so you've got collagen's a massive big triple helix structure that needs to get broken down. Big old molecule. Massive molecule. So hydrolyzed collagen, most stuff on the market, gets smashed up into little bits. Yeah, gets processed, but it's not going to hit on it, it just goes through a heating process, that's all that happens, and it breaks it down. But your body can only accept it. You can only accept it into dry peptides or tripeptides. Yeah. And it also needs to hit on the right amino acids. The chances of your body or this heating process doing that is virtually impossible. It's a lottery. Like your lottery numbers coming out every single time, all the time. So the machine might break it down. It says eight amino acids, six amino acids, three amino acids, ten amino acids, eighteen on one, whatever. It breaks it down these long chains into smaller chains, but it's never going to hit on three every single time. Yeah. And of those three, it needs to be glycine, proline, and hydroxyproline. Yeah. And it's not going to hit on those amino acids every single time. And those are the only three that will work and stimulate your fibroblasts. Okay. So glycine paired with proline paired with hydroxyproline. And if it does not have hydroxyproline in it, it cannot open the cell and let it in to actually get to work. So the the prof was telling me all this, and he said, Well, we've had it in RD for a while now, a couple of years, and we're looking for someone to bring it to market. And I was like, Oh god, instantly I get anxiety when he's talking. I'm thinking, ah, this ain't for me. This ain't for me. Do you know what I mean? I can't do this, this is too big, I don't want to do it. But they were like, No, you're a girl, and I was like, No, I'm not, you know, and I really put them off for over a year, by the way. 12 months. 12 months. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Because I realised what I was up against, and and whatever. So he explained what they had done, and they'd got government funding from Innovate UK. So Innovate UK had looked at the science, which is no easy feat to get money out of them. This is government funded money. They'd looked at the science and thought, yeah, this is something we want to back. So they gave them some money. So the prof led the team of research. Like, I went down to the super lab and saw the lab, it was just unbelievable. And when I was there, they were working on like brain tissue and a cancer drug that gets delivered through the nose. Like the standard of work that they're doing there is unbelievable. So they figured out that the best way for the body to stimulate collagen is through these three amino acids. So what they did is single out those three amino acids out of your raw materials of collagen, and they've just got this tripeptide, short chain tripeptide. Then the other problem with most collagen on the market is a lot of it, as you swallow it, gets burnt up by your stomach acid. It gets broken down by your stomach acid. But again, it doesn't break it down into those perfect three amino acids that you need. And then it also goes through the liver, and a lot of it's getting processed out. So you might start with 10,000 milligrams, you might end up with a hundred milligrams that you might be able to use after the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

So I don't want to interrupt the whole thing, but so are you saying that those of us who feel we've had benefit from other collagen products over the last 10-15 years have just been suffering some collective delusion?

SPEAKER_02 54:53

There definitely is. No, you are getting something. You are definitely getting something, but of the but it's not they have to put it in, that's why they have to use huge doses of it. They have to use 10,000 milligrams, 15,000. Because it so in order, let's say you're gonna in a regular hydrolyzed collagen that might be 10,000 milligrams, they say the science will say you will absorb between 100 and 300 milligrams of that. So some of it will be doing the work, but you've got to take it for a long time over a good period of time to feel anything. What they said was, well, the only bits that are gonna work, let's bottle that. So they've put 2,600 milligrams of the tripeptide. So you're looking at your 100 milligrams or 300 milligrams or 2,600 milligrams of your tripeptide. But not only that, they wrapped it, these tripeptides, which are really delicate, in liposomes, so that it can bypass the stomach, bypass the liver, and get absorbed where it needs to get to, and all of it's getting absorbed there. Very difficult science to get your head around if you're an average consumer. Yeah. And it was for me, I was like, this was why I was like, oh god, why do I like you know what I mean? How am I gonna try and explain this to people who are shoving vital proteins in their coffee every morning, you know, and they're are happy with it.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Um, but anyway, so you've got a great community though, haven't you, which you've built up, which trusts you from the original product you launched. But I also consistent with them, aren't you? You talk back to them. And you you're in very close contact and you emphasize how with any new product, uh you know you've got to take it for months. Absolutely, in order to see what benefit it may be giving you, is what I'm always saying, saying to people, should I try this? And think, well, I don't know, but try it for three months and see how it's not.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Yes. But um, yeah, so there was nobody using tripeptides, there's nobody using uh certainly not in liposomes. And I just looked at the prof and I thought, he ain't gonna waste four years of his life doing this project and put his whole career on the line if he's selling snake oil to people. He wouldn't why would he do that? Then they went in for the Innovate UK Award, they won it.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Yes, I saw that. Um very impressive.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

So it's no joke, and it's actually having real credible results. So another independent professor reached out to me after seeing this product, said he'd like to try it. This was one of the Queen's consultants when she was alive, he's also a fantastic plastic surgeon. He knew all about the tripeptides and he knew how good they could be. In fact, he argued that for joints it would be better than an oral hyaluronic uh, sorry, a injectable hyaluronic acid into your joints.

SPEAKER_00 57:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

And he is now publishing a paper with words to that effect in a medical journal. In fact, I've seen the draft the draft. Yeah. And again, I'm thinking this is an independent guy who doesn't know me, who's not involved with the product, complet he's putting his reputation on the line to write about it in a medical journal. Yeah. And it but I just think the average consumer doesn't get that, and I'm up against a tricky someone who's giving you free gummies on the side. Oh well, if I I look at things with a bit more of a critical eye and I think, well, those two professors alone, they're telling me that's good. And then I've got a loose woman over there. Which one would I take advice from? Probably those.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

So I go for me personally, I go off scientific credibility. For sure. Whether average consumer does, I that I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

But yeah, so you've got a keep telling them until they get the point.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Yeah, but that's that's how that product came around.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Okay, amazing.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

And and after a while, I was just like, I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna do it and go for it.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

And and and what did your dad make of it? What did he notice about it? Absolutely. Well, why did he love it?

SPEAKER_02 58:51

He loved it for he was taking another collagen brand and spelling so much money on it. Okay. And I said, Why'd you take that one, Dad? And he said, Oh, Maureen's facialist said it was good, which is his missus. I said, All right, okay. It was uh skinny's, and uh he said, I don't know why I'm taking it. I just because they said it was good. Yeah, someone said it was good, so I'm taking it as a bit of an insurance policy. It was it was like 180 quid a month, so expensive. No, it's not that much. Yeah, goodness, okay. It was a lot. So I was like, okay, well, it's nothing special, whatever. So he started taking ours and he was like, Yeah, I'm liking it, I'm really liking it. And only yesterday he sent me this message because I said, Dad, I'm using this text message, the betum, dad, in my marketing. And he was like, go for it. So he's 70 years old. He texted me yesterday, and I will show it on screen. The collagen is definitely helping me avoid age bruising purple marks. That would be great for elderly folks. There would be a demand for it. I said, Dad bruising purple marks. You know, like if he bangs himself, yeah, it comes up much. Yeah, like a really dark purple mark. Yeah. I said, Dad, I'm gonna use that verbatim as a quote. He put, I'm here to help. I'm sure I have some photographs when I was bruised in the past. I banged myself recently and the bruise didn't arrive like it would have done in the past. I was always using Maureen's concealer to hide the marks, and now I'm not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

Goodness, and instantly thinking, well, how would that help some normal post-tweakment um post-injection bruises, which I'm gonna send that text to the prof and say, what's the how's that working?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

What's the mechanism? There's also unbelievable things. So it's not just pillary walls and yeah, it's not just the I think we always go on about the tripeptide being like the hero, because it obviously is the hero, and the hydroxyproline being the absolute king of ingredients in that sequence, and that's why vegan collagen will never work, because it hasn't got hydroxyproline in it, so it's just nutrition.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

When they're recreating um the molecule within the lab and mimicking all of those.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

I sent some of the data to the prof who basically laughed out loud when he started reading it. Oh, okay. The studies that they produced to say we've mimicked human collagen. He la literally laughed out loud. He was just cut head in his hands, couldn't believe what he was reading. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

Because all the um a lot of the vegan collagen-promoting supplements, they've just got ingredients like vitamin C, which are which can make a claim to support the production of collagen, but it's so far away from actually doing what you want it to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

This one, the glycine proline, hydroxyproline, that stimulates your fibroblasts to so your body recognises it and says makes more collagen, make more collagen. That's what it's that's its whole signal to do. Yeah. That's what it's there to do. So, and the other thing is people go on about what type of you know, collagen it could be, bovine versus marine versus porcine, whatever. He said it doesn't matter. It does not matter. That's like saying if you eat chicken, it's gonna go to your eyes, and steak is gonna go to your bum, and you know, fish is gonna go to your skin. He's like, that is it doesn't matter that raw material, what matters is has it got the signal? Is it going to absorb? He's like, so it doesn't matter. So anybody who's selling any product on that, they don't know what they're talking about, is what he said. And he was like, it doesn't matter the source, it matters. Have they got that sequence of short chain of amino acids? Is it gonna signal? Are you gonna absorb it? That's absolutely the conversation we should be having. Yeah, not where's it come from? And I was like, when I thought about it like that, I thought, yeah, well, I don't look at like a steak and think, well, that protein's gonna go to my arms. It's just your body will shift it where it needs to go. For sure. Yeah, and the same with the collagen. If you need it in your skin, it'll send it to your skin. If you need it in your osteoblasts, it'll send it there or your osteoclast, wherever it needs it, it will puss it. That's why I was so enamoured by it after many conversations. The also the reason that you know we're not a VC backed company. So this is my money. Money on the city.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

It's a big decision for you. And how how are you, how's your customer base uh responding to it? Loving it. Yeah. A lot of them were just if you say it's good, I believe you. That's all I need to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Are they reporting back anything interesting? We did a a big survey, um, and all of them came back with and then some outlier like answers. Uh, the whites of their eyes came up about 50 times out of 250 people. That was and that wasn't even a question. And that wasn't even a question that we'd put in there. And I'd noticed that myself actually. But the white So do you know what that I think is? Because they asked.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

I noticed a massive difference since I step up. Sorry, what did the prof say?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Lycopene. So he's put lycopene in there, which is a really powerful antioxidant, and when you limit oxidative stress, very radical stress, yeah, it can show up in your eyes, be nice and clear.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Extraordinary. So I'm learning a lot. Yeah. Lycopene. Um, a uh a lovely um molecular dermatologist who's done a lot of studies of lycopene ages ago showed it it gives a an internal kind of sunscreen of like 1.5. Yeah. But but still it's a something. No, it it's yeah, so they call it like what did he make them eat? Three tablespoons of tomato puree a day. Yeah. Yeah. Tasty way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Definitely. Well, it's it's found in what tomato skins, watermelons, it gives it that red hue. But you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Um lycopene supplementation can help with reducing inflammation, therefore showing up in the eyes. But my god, if it's if it's reducing inflammation, that is that is the secret to more successful aging, isn't it? Reducing inflammation all over. I I'm I'm really into um proper top-to-toe body moisturizing at the moment, having read all those things about how you know, because the skin is the biggest organ of the body, if there's inflammation in the skin, even at a very low level, that is contributing to our overall inflammatory burden and the speed at which we're aging on the inside. So if you reduce that inflammation in the skin by basic hydration, any old moisturizer, chief expensive, whatever, just do it, then the skin is in better nick. The inflammation is low. It shows up on the inside. You can measure it in less inflammation.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

I'm somebody who's very seldom does a body moisturize. Yeah, well, add it in in your room.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Every day.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

I mean, the only time I'd put it on is if like it's got a bit of tan in it, gradual tan, and I'll put it on then. But other than that, I don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

Yeah, I I I mean, fish oils are great for helping, you know, with hydration in the skin and everything else, you know, it's a sort of systemic thing. But put on from the outside, yeah, there are there are studies that have. Shown this, I think it was on a um a population of older women. I think it was done in China, it was done through the six months of the winter when the skin tends to be drier and and it measured the um and would you what product would you put on like a moisturizer, an oil or moisturizer, uh oils goes everywhere. I mean, some people like oils, but I want something that's going to absorb and not not sit on the surface. And some people only want a kind of serum thing or one of those sprays, body sprays based heavily on hyaluronic acid, which is nice and they're very lightweight. It also depends whether you're a person with drier skin, oily skin, and what your skin can tolerate before you find it's rubbed off on all the insides of your clothing and you've got to wash them you know continuously to stop this kind of if you've got oil all over your body. I mean, what what's your shirt going to be like by the end of the day?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

No, I'm I'm with you definitely. I I get out of the shower and don't put anything on, but I don't feel dry.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

No, your skin doesn't look dry, but but anyway, for for the former. Because if I did whack it right up. Yeah, I I that that's mine you think because it's it's really easy to do, it doesn't necessarily cost anything, and I think it has a you know a benefit longer term, just trying to bring down inflammation like we're trying to do with eating better and less pollution and stress and all those other things.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

I um read a fantastic fascinating book by Ben Goldacre called Bad Science, and it basically said like every moisturizer is the same. Which I agreed to a certain extent, but then you do get a few actives in some moisturiser. I don't believe in overpaying for moisturizer, I really don't. Gillomares and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

I just think absolutely moisturizer, the the serums with the active ingredients are where you really want to spend your money. Yeah. Um, yeah, unless less uh another one to cut down on is is cleansers, expensive cleansers. I mean, they're a lovely idea, and there are lots of lovely probiotic cleansers and things, but it is basically it's going straight down the drain. You know, you want the stuff you're putting on your skin to have a nicely formulated balance of actives and not pile too much stuff on because I mean I'm just happy if something gets all my makeup off. That's that's all I care about.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

Just as it is cleaning my actual face. Yes. That the anything that's in it, I'm thinking it's literally on for two seconds and then I'm washing it straight off. So I wouldn't buy it. I mean, I'm like a serivan.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

Give it a mini nicely to help with the blood flow and the tension in our faces and all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

Well, uh, I tell you what else was huge at ClasmaProf, spicules.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:30

Oh, yes, yes, my kid. Now, for people who don't know, yeah, these are the they're like tiny spines of sea sponges and they're like mini, mini microneedles, and they're inner product, so they um enable the work when you rub them in, they feel a tiny bit gritty and it helps the actives, the peptides, whatever else you've got in there to get in. But but yeah, it's huge, isn't it? Huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

I thought it was I actually backed it. It was lots of great great idea. Lots of stuff. I was like, I'm gonna do a you know, good, gimmicky, and completely bonkers like kind of list of stuff. There's a real point to it. I I that was one of my good things, a back it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:06

Yeah, I would I would go for that rather than um home microneedling. Um I I'm I I do do it for myself and I feel a hypocrite saying it is, but but but I'm really reluctant to recommend it to people because most people do it erratically and they scratch up their skin and they do with hygienic, probably hygienic, and they use them beyond the point where the the if you look at them under a microscope at the needle points and how those are lasting over time, you know, you yeah, and and dermatologists say, you know, people who've done too much of this they see skin that looks like the sort of scratched surface of a C D because it's all been too much really too but you know done done appropriately, it can be great, but you you you do have to do it with with great caution and ever done one microneedling session and it was titchy, yeah. Never like honestly at home as opposed to in a just no ever in a clinic. It's it's quite annoyingly uncomfortable, isn't it? People say, Oh, this is a nothing, it's only feel it, I can feel it, I can feel it. But and you wouldn't, you don't you don't like it? I would.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:15

I just never have time to like do anything. Okay, so you know, unless it's and then you've got to sometimes have to I never have time to have downtime either. I film something every single minute of the day. So whether I I need to really book treatments in and then book time off around or like make sure I'm not doing a podcast so I don't look like I've been bastard and stuff like that if I'm doing any kind of procedure because there can be downtime involved and or I'm not speaking at an event or I'm not turning up somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

My my Instagram, my lovely people there, they like nothing more than seeing me looking completely trashed. But uh yeah, it's not not good for um anything where you're meant to be putting your best face forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

I tell you what, I think is complete horseshit, I'll be honest. Whatever, whatever it is in cheap masks.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

Oh, I I don't know. I mean, I don't need to watch it. You didn't the ingredients are absorbed. I never get round to them, I must say. You look like a div.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

You have to sit there for ages, they never stay on, and these and as I'm just stood there chatting to all these manufacturers in Cosmoprop, all these Korean manufacturers, they are here to stay, they're gonna be everywhere. Do I think they're working? No, would you be better? You just basically put your serum on yourself, and they're like the colour changing ones are just oxidizing in the air. It's not actually getting absorbed, it's just going, it's just touching air now.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

I think you know, if you've had a treatment and you uh get but then you're stuck on the bed anyway, and you get one of these and they're icy, cool, and they're packed with hydrating stuff when your poor old skin is in a traumatised state and needing that bit of stuff to take it down, that's really nice. Yeah, that I think in that situation for um silicon face masks, uh, you know, but how you'd keep them strapped on your face overnight, I don't I I I I don't know, but but because they will enhance the penetration of whatever skincare you've got on there, it's like having a you know, when they're testing um vitamin A or whatever, they'll sort of put it under a bandage on the skin for however long to have that occlusive effect on it. Um but um well the never seem to really take off as a popular idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:31

I think they're a great TikTok trend that you know people are waking up after these, oh look at this glass skin. And I'm like, that woman is Korean, you don't have skin like her, and you never will. So that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

These like and they will have a very rigorous uh regime that would have us all running for the hills.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

The Koreans have di so Korean beauty is here to stay, and I love it. Brilliant. That glassy skin. I'm very much into wet products and things. I'm a real hydration person instead of a cream or like thin, nice products. So the Korean stuff is great, but I will never have the kind of non-porous skin. So I think that's what we all need to remember where our baseline is. We're not we're not the same skin texture at all. Um, yeah, are we really made?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

We work hard at it with a lot of with a kind of rigour that I think would would alarm a lot of people. Definitely. Uh here, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Uh, but Korean beauty was the absolute dominant force once again. It's not it's not going anywhere. Yeah. Um and spicules everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

Spicules everywhere, exosomes everywhere. Yeah. Um longevity serums, that's the other thing. I saw it even the aesthetic conferences, every serum seems to be called longevity. Longevity is going to make you last longer. Tackling senescent cells, clearing them up, no problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:48

Yeah, yeah. Again, I have a critical eye, a lot of um wild claims. The other thing which I thought was complete nonsense was um wearable cosmetics. So it was collagen-infused gym kit. I thought, right. How are we absorbing that then?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:06

Knew an idea. I mean, it had the leggings with um probiotic gym kit. Yeah, no, that's bonkers. I mean, also what it's gonna last because they bind it into the fibres and it will last it for a few washes. 10 washes, 50 washes. There were there were some that were really popular about 10, 15 years ago. Um, these these things will come.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:26

These aren't cheap, 130 quid.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:28

Wow. And I thought were they nice leggings? They were all right. Because otherwise, are you only gonna wear them for those they were really thin if I'm honest? The collagen molecule, as we know, is is not going to get through your skin. Well, this was ice creams argument.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:43

And I'm glad you said that because like the Medicures of the world who are building a complete monster brand on the back of we've got collagen inside the product, and that doesn't matter, it's never gonna get anywhere apart from going wash down the sink. Yeah. Because the molecule's too big, it's what, 3,000 Daltons? Well, we know that you can only absorb things under 500 Daltons. Uh by the way, our tripeptide's under 500 Daltons. Um, so it gets right in there. But um, yeah, so you're just washing it down the sink. So anything you see with quality.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

We love a new idea, don't we? She said, in defense of the entire industry for no reason at all. Um I I mean as a journalist, I I I I I love any new mad idea like that because if you're looking for stuff to write about, it's got to be new news. It can't be the same old stuff. You know, editors, every kind of article I'm writing might say, Oh, we need a box about something. And I say, I will write about how important SPF is in your in your routine. Um and then I, oh, you know, we heard that before. You think, yeah, but people don't know I get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:47

But um the yeah, the the gym kit thing. And I was like, okay, I get it. There's a big trend towards gym kit having plastic in it. Yes, yes, you know, people are trying to. All that like there's a whole brand there now that is built on non, oh, it's sustainable, non-PFAs, no forever chemicals, kids' gym kit. That's so like it's all like cotton base, okay, etc. Fine. And then I think people are going one step further and thinking, well, how can we add buzzwords into fibers? Do I think the fabric technology is there? No, I don't. Do I think people will try and sell us it on TikTok? Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

Okay, so so kids, kids' gym kit is that going back to the kind of old PE kit we used to have 50 years ago, which is like we used to have these great, these big grey knickers for athletics. Yeah, maybe. It was it was kind of mad. Um they they were huge. They they came up up to here and they were Yeah, I had running knickers like that with my name on. Hearing about the all those winners in the marathon um yesterday, they they all had those special springy carbon plates in the things and which and weighing 300 grams or something in insanely little. And you think, of course, all the kit must be so it's a bit bad for child, it's a bit bad luck for kids if they're being put back into old-style fabrics, but maybe it's better for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:12

Well, maybe it is better for them because there's an argument to you're absorbing everything. I I don't know. I'm seeing the huge whether it's marketing, whether it's people, I don't know, but but plastic is obviously everywhere, killing the planet. But fertility levels, people are always bringing it back to fertility. Yeah. Because we have got a bit of a fertility crisis and there's plastic in everything, water. I had a lovely guy on. You'll like this guy, actually, if you ever want to write about this, to help optimize. So he's got a device called Scooma Water.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:43

Oh, I started listening to that. I'll listen to more. So this is a good thing, is it? Because he was the one who said you could put Coca-Cola in and it comes out as well. It comes out as pure H2O. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:54

So the only thing that this machine will let do is the water molecule, nothing else. So whether it's a forever chemical, it takes it out, microplastic, it takes it out. Okay. You name it like anything, and then it remineralizes the water.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:07

So is that an alternative to reverse osmosis for an expensive system that you could have plugged into your home?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

Yes. So they do do a pro version if you wanted that. This is a triple reverse osmosis system. Yeah. Wow. And then it remineralizes the water again, but it's like countertop, so it's a bit like an espresso. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

So you Okay, I'll look into that. I yeah, I um I did an awful lot of testing last year at a very high-end um clinic in the West End for an article um about brain health. The article had the the the suggested article had the irresistible title of Do I Have CEO Brain? And you I don't care what CEO brain is, it sounds amazing, I want to go and try this. And I had the opportunity to go to this lovely clinic where they have a very high-end clientele, entrepreneurs, CEOs, high net worths, all very keen on health optimization. Um and brain health is the key focus for the wonderful doctor who runs it. And her four pillars of health for optimization are nutrition, um rest and sleep, not the same thing, exercise and movement, not the same thing, and toxicity. And I said, Toxicity, or she said, You well, where are you on toxicity? And I was like, Well, don't really do it. Tell me more, tell me more. And she said, Well, you eat organic. I said, like sometimes. Uh and she said, Why not? I said, I haven't entirely been convinced that it's worth it or whatever. And she looked mildly shocked, but didn't shout at me for it, and then said, But you use and do you use normal cleaning products and things? And I said, Yeah, often, and um, I was skincare, yeah, I'm I'm chemicals all the way. Um, and I said, I just haven't been convinced that that this uh toxic um cocktail effect with skincare is a sufficient thing to bother about, plus don't we have liver and kidneys for all that kind of thing. She said, You do, but the the uh overwhelming toxic burden in modern life, whether it's you know your pesticides, your your fire retardants, your forever chemicals, microplastics. She said, uh you don't do um gel nails, do you? And I said, no, just because I find it wrecks my nails. But she said if you get your microplastic levels done before and after that, you will never have them done again because you see how much it j yeah. Um so I have been obliged to have a little thing, and then she says, you need to be doing uh saunas to try because my levels of uh toxic this and that weren't weren't so great. And I said, Well, that's just the the the age I am. She says, it it's how my how well your body's systems are working to get rid of the stuff that's coming in, and and you know, that there can be various factors involved in that, but I had high levels of mold toxins, which I haven't even known about, which you know they're growing on food stuff, so very hard to avoid, you know, coffee beans, um, bread, oats, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

Peanut butter is the worst. Is it? Aflatoxin. Is it? Yeah. Well, they only use really crap peanuts. If this is uh in peanut butter because they mash them up into peanut butter. So they're the ones that have got the most mold on, they're the worst ones. It's full of something called aflatoxin. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:38

Um what am I talking about? Do you know more about it?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

So bad though, unless we're gonna live in a barrel naked. What are we gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:46

This is not about making everything incredibly restricted, but um it it's having more awareness and and just reducing that burden that you're getting from all these different aspects of your life, hence things like water. She said, get a reverse osmosis water system. If you wow, okay, that's going to be pricey. And she said, and nutrients. She said, I was I think I I think I eat quite well, but she said I'm technically sort of malnourished because I've uh I'm under quite a lot of stress, and I obviously motor through antioxidants. So she said, You need juices, but it needs to be from a masticating juicer. Well, what on earth is that one is at home? And she said, Well, this is not a juicer that does a fast extraction process because that creates heat, that destroys the antioxidants that you're after. So you want this thing called a masticating juicer, which does it slowly and cold and grinds them up.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:42

Or could you just eat through?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:45

You as I said, I should I just eat more vegetables, organic ones. And she said, No, you you you will never eat enough. You you you you keep on eating all that stuff you are eating. I I I I I'm diligent on the the fibre, the vegetables, the protein, all of that. But she said, you need a lot more, you need greens, and you need bitter ones. And I said, but but uh I haven't got around to that. But but one day um well we can start with the water. That's an easy fix. Start with the water, but also makes a cup of tea.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:17

You put hot water, it makes hot water as well. Oh, fantastic. I know. I was told and he said that.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:23

I'm I'm and it's not too pro 370 quid. Oh, okay. Well, that's that's a lot less than a countertop reverse. I can get you 20 quid off as well. Oh, fantastic. Okay. But but but that's less than even a countertop reverse osmosis, whatever system. So but but there's a range of things. And then I mean another benefit of this incredibly detailed and very, very expensive testing. Had I been paying for it, not being a lucky journalist getting to try it, was things like um finding out that I lack the there's a genetic quirk. I don't make lutathione master antioxidant like I ought. So I have to supplement with that. And I choose to supplement with a liposomal brand that I do trust for for its production of it, but it is taste disgusting and it is expensive, but there you go. Um, and things like um the C CEO brain turns out to be um it's another genetic uh mutation thing that runs at about 20% of the population. It means your dopamine re-uptake mechanisms don't work quite as well as at most. Okay. Defo out so there's there's 20% of the population running around with a bit too much dopamine on the loose, which the clinic hypothesizes leads to risk taking, go-getting entrepreneurial behavior, hence CEO brain. Also, when they look at their population of patients, they uh find that this genetic work runs at 81% of their patients have it. So that's an idea. Uh and I say, wow, sounds great. Yeah, do I have it? He said, Yeah, but the flip side of that is that your brain is kind of permanently running hot wired, therefore, um, you know, there's a strong risk of you wearing yourself out. They also tested heart rate uh stuff, heart rate variability, or the recovery, my recovery is rubbish. VO2 Max. Uh VO2 Max and all that, and and luckily physical fitness seems to be stopping me from completely crashing and burning. Because if you don't get a grip on this, you're going to be in trouble. So you well, good that you know. Good that I know and get in front of the camera manage to make any lifestyle difference in the past. Well, the trouble is you can see it in in your sleep patterns. I mean, I've I've got a wearable which is much more basic, obviously, than than having a device strapped onto you that's measuring everything, but it gives you the same kind of picture of are you achieving rest, like when you're asleep, or even if you're just having a quiet conversation, or is your stress levels actually up there in the angry high thing? And and even when I'm sitting quietly at home doing nothing in the evening, she says, Yeah, but look at but look at your look at your results. Um you think you are under immense stress, and even halfway through the night you can see these things popping back. But how do I stop that? I don't know, and I haven't worked it out. If I do, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:22

Yeah, well, uh sleep is a biggie. Um, but I do think there's a bit of paralysis by analysis sometimes. We can overthink these things. More breathing, yeah. Deep breathing. Absolutely. Which I've been holding my breath for the whole time we've been talking. We have come to the end of the podcast. Um, but Alice, I really thoroughly enjoyed today's chat. Uh, I'm gonna be seeing you again in London at Tweetments Live. Yeah, thank you so much for watching. Very nervous about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:47

For goodness sake, come on. You know your stuff like a few others. All you've got to do is just I know, but I think I think I'm gonna choke. No, you won't. No, you won't.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:56

So you're gonna have to like go in.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:57

We've got really interested people wanting to hear what you're gonna say. I don't know. I feel like it's gonna be a room full of snipers, and I'm nervous.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:03

No, bought a new dress though, so uh I'll look good.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:07

I better buy a new dress.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:08

Nothing else. But yeah, you look sensational. Looking forward to that in London. And thank you so much for coming to Liverpool to chat today. We've learned a lot. Oh, thank you so much for inviting me. It's an absolute treat to be here. Thank you, thank you.