Elle Sera

Sheena Lynch : The Truth About Marriage, Fame & Finding Your Own Identity / Elle Sera Podcast

• Elle Sera

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0:00 | 1:02:38

Chapters:
00:00 Welcome Sheena Lynch
00:15 London to Cheshire Life
02:07 London Costs and Events
03:47 Podcasting ROI Mindset
06:10 Podcast Skills and Setup
08:01 Joining Real Housewives
14:57 Cast Friendships Paige
18:56 Fame and Being Seen
21:13 Windrush Family Roots
22:51 Meeting Shane Lynch
29:06 Marriage That Grows
30:50 Odyssey Life Metaphor
33:26 School Struggles and Surprises
34:37 AI and the Value of Degrees
35:20 Student Debt Scandal Rant
36:22 Meeting Shane and Boyzone Life
40:20 Housewives and Business Ambitions
41:30 Why Jewellery Makes Sense
46:40 Motherhood and Postpartum Reality
49:38 Finding the Village Again
54:55 What’s Next and Amen Fragrances
55:33 Perfume Business Behind the Scenes
59:47 Growing the Brand and Wrapping Up

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About Elle-Sera:

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Produced by Liverpool Podcast Studios
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SPEAKER_01

Welcome back to the Else R podcast, and today I am joined with the fabulous Sheena Lynch. How are you, love? I'm very, very well, thank you. Thank you for having me on. Good. No, and thanks for coming all the way over to Liverpool, but you're in Cheshire these days. Yes, I am these days. So how's life in Cheshire?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I I'm I I don't really see myself as a Cheshire girl, to be honest, because I, although we're in Cheshire, I'm on the border between Cheshire and the Wirral. So I'm not kind of in that immediate vicinity of Cheshire.

SPEAKER_01

Like the Golden Triangle. No, I'm not there.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to live closer to family, which was the other side. So yeah, no, it's great. I love it. It's beautiful. I moved from London to the Northwest, and I moved kicking and screaming, didn't want to move, didn't did not want to come up north at all, um, being a London girl. When you're from London, you've got a mentality that nothing else exists outside of London. It's a horrible mentality, but you have that. And so when kind of the decision was made that we have to move, I was like, Are you joking? And why did he have to move? Business. It just made business sense. At the time, um Shane was spending a lot of time in Northern Ireland and he used to get the ferry across. So um his sister lived in the North West. So he used to drive up, stay with his sister, get on the ferry, go over to Northwest, go over to sorry, to Northern Ireland and do what he's got to do. But it meant that we were only seeing him maybe two or three times a week. So um it just made sense that we lived closer that way, it was easier for him to come and go. Um, I had loads of family that lived up there. Um, so yeah, it just made sense. But my route is in London, so I just felt like I was moving to like a hovasid. Yeah. I just didn't like no. I didn't have a vision. Yeah, yeah. But ask me now if I go back. Absolutely not. No. Are you joking? London sucks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I love visiting London and I love coming home.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That that is the perfect way to see London is just to visit and then go home. It's great fun, but get the hell out of there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. It's become super expensive as well. You can't buy property around there. Ridiculous. It is, cost of living's crazy around there.

SPEAKER_00

When the quest is coming up as well.

SPEAKER_01

No, it is. It obviously depends definitely where you're living. But um, like I I want to visit London, go down and get a hotel room, whatever. It's a joke.

SPEAKER_00

It's a joke.

SPEAKER_01

It's honestly one night away, I've done a grand.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, no, I I'm 100% with you. I I have to be really thoughtful about why I'm going to London, like, especially for work. I'm like, first of all, this shouldn't cost me.

SPEAKER_01

Well, exactly. So I this is my mentality. And especially when you're on a reality show, people don't really understand that you're not really getting paid. Yeah. Well, if nothing. Yeah. A lot of it is like, oh, you should be seen at this event. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you get invited to parties all the time. All the time. Like, and you're like, oh yeah, you get a bit of FOMO because you're like, you're going to miss out on all these things, but then it's so expensive. It's like 200 quid on the train. Yeah. You've got to get a hotel room, then you need a dress. Maybe you could get one gifted to you, but makeup for the rest of the street. Everything ends up being thousands of pounds. It does. Yeah. It's not, it's and you're never missing out, I promise. No, you're not. So you've got to be very careful with the opportunities that you pick. And this is why I'm always like, more networking should be done in the north, more businesses, more founders, whatever. Absolutely. But it's uh it is it's very difficult.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I to be honest, I probably go to very little things I'm invited to down in London. It has to make sense for me to go. I'm not just going on a jolly. No. Um, yeah, otherwise you're right, yeah, it's officially thousands of pounds.

SPEAKER_01

It needs to be like a paid job almost. Or a paid job while you're down there.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Or it needs to make sense for whatever it is you're doing, and and then they need to cover like at least expenses for you to go and do it.

SPEAKER_01

It it makes me laugh when people ask me to go and podcast in London. I'm like, Yeah, no problem. There's my like, can you book my train ticket? Exactly. Oh, we haven't got any budget for expenses, have I? That's part of the reason why you're my first. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was like, so you want me to spend my money, and by the way, all the time I'm missing me working as well to go on your podcast, which no one's gonna listen to. I'll be honest, because like it's so like if it's like a really big podcast, then I would just do it until it's different. Yeah, but I'm like, I'm not like just letting you warm up on me until you get some good guests later on, and I'm paying for the pleasure. Yeah. But I I often find that it is expected of you to do that, which is creates like nobody's thinking. So then sometimes what I've done is like people have organised it, and then um I'll get a taxi because then I can work in the back of a taxi. Then still like it's can be oh well. I got one the other day, it was 300 quid because he had to wait for me outside because it was a big industrial estate that like it was in the middle of nowhere, and I was like, So I've spent 300 quid to turn up on your podcast. For you, yeah, yeah, because it's not for me, no. So the way I look at it is that I'll kind of shoehorn in what I want to say, and then I'll clip it up and use it for like ads, so it's almost like in my head, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you could do. I never even thought of it like that. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, you could do. That's actually very smart.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's the only that's the way I'm looking at it because I'm thinking, well, yeah, it's nice to have a nice conversation, but also what am I gonna get out of this? How am I gonna return on that investment that's high? Exactly. I'm not being a I'm not being a bitch, I do like helping people out.

SPEAKER_00

No, absolutely, but also it's got to make sense for you too. You can't just go around just helping other people or something.

SPEAKER_01

I always people if I want people to come on this podcast, I'll pay their expenses, no problem. Yeah, yeah. Because I do believe in that, and then you get better guests and whatever. This is true. It makes me laugh when people are like, How much are you paying me to come on? I was like, I'm not sorry. How many have you been on? That's what I was asked because that's not there as well. Like literally never heard of her. And like she came, she got pitched to us, and she got pitched to us. She's a journalist, right? Uh she went three grand. I was like, All right, no. To do a podcast. Yeah. I was like, I'll be honest, she's not gonna turn the needle for me at all. Yeah. I thought, wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting paid to do a podcast. No, I know it for a particular reason.

SPEAKER_01

But and also it like it's good. I think they're good. And the reason I, by the way, started doing podcasts is because I need I needed to get better at one doing podcast myself, and then if I ever get invited on people's, I'll be very comfortable doing it, or public speaking. It's a skill that you learn, yeah, and that's why I do it and invest in it. Because if you listen back to podcast number one compared to today, my God, like what a journey.

SPEAKER_00

Well, what's what's the one thing though, from one that you were like, I'm not doing that anymore?

SPEAKER_01

So the first few episodes I used to like go, yeah, yeah. I do that all all over the guest. No, okay. Yeah, die. No, just did it. No, it's hard. And I when I I can tell when people have just started doing their podcast because I hear all the bad mistakes that people do in the beginning. The other thing is like podcast setup as well. Obviously, we have an amazing studio, amazing sound, whatever. I can I've been on other people's podcast, very big podcast, really famous podcasts. And when I listen back to it compared to what us, the sound is so different because they've not soundproofed the room correctly and the sound is bouncing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So that's I mean, you'd think that would occur.

SPEAKER_01

You'd think it would. They make it look good, yeah, yeah. Aesthetically, but actually, technically, that's well, all these boys here are sound engineers. That's why it sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_00

And is that because they don't want to spend the money doing that? And they haven't got the knowledge.

SPEAKER_01

You've all got like degrees in sound engineering, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00

So, do you do podcast stuff full-time? Is this what you yeah?

SPEAKER_01

This is all they do.

SPEAKER_00

This is oh, okay. Noted. This is something that I'd like to get into 100%. Definitely, I think you'd be good at it. My thing is coming from because I like conversations, but I don't know if that's enough to be good at doing this kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01

No, it is, it's definitely you definitely could, as long as you're curious about your guests. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I am curious about you, and I've got lots of questions, mental questions for you. Yeah, okay. So uh a lot of people will know you from Real Housewives of Cheshire these days. So uh why don't you tell me about the experience of getting on the show? Were you nervous? Did you watch it before?

SPEAKER_00

Right. So if I'm gonna be a hundred percent honest, Cheshire, I wasn't even aware of it. So I'm remembering I'm coming from London, so I wasn't even something that was on my radar. The franchise of the show, oh yeah, absolutely. I used to live for Atlanta, like I that was one of my reality shows that I loved. So I was fully aware of the Real Housewives of Cheshire. So um we moved up north. Um, once we moved up, it was so everyone was going, Oh, you should be on the Real Housewives of Cheshire. So I was like, what's I didn't even know the show. I go, it's real house, is there a real house of Cheshire? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should be on it. And um, I was like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You've got to remember, it's not that I uh necessarily was nervous about doing the show, it's just that I had a husband who was in the industry, and it just wasn't something that ever occurred for me to do, or I even saw myself doing anything like that. So it was very much no no no no no can't do it. Um so I started watching the show and I was like, I definitely can't do it. Um no, there's no way I could do it, and then um Shane said, Well, well, have a think about it because it would be amazing if you got on it and it meant that we could show our businesses on it because we are local to Cheshire. Um so have a think about it.

SPEAKER_01

And your businesses are you've got, or you did have, you had a bar.

SPEAKER_00

We did have a bar, yeah. Rusty Shamrock. Yeah, um uh yeah, D13. D13 and then it changed to the Rusty Shamrock, yeah. Um yeah, we did have that. But when we first moved up, we opened that up. Um we let go of that. The industry just absolutely tells us. Oh my god, yeah, yeah. So we let go of that, uh, which was I think probably the best thing we ever did, to be honest. Because you do fall in love with something and you want to keep a hold of something. Um, but at the end of the day, it yeah, the margins are so tight.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no, no. Uh, on hospitality, we have three restaurants. Oh wow, it's ridiculous. Well, congratulations that they're still going because it is a slog, and they are like rammed from like nine o'clock in the morning until ten at night, and it's still like hot impossible to make money. Yeah, it's impossible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and ours was literally just a pub. So, but anyway, so we had that, and then we had we had we opened a supercar centre. So um uh Shane uh has a business partner that is um being cars and and car parts. Um so they ended up getting together, opening up a supercar centre, um right by Cheshiro. So I don't know if you know Cheshire Roads, yeah. Uh opened up a supercar centre there. Um and it was just like it made perfect sense because it's local in the area, um, it would look great on the show. Um so Shane was like, Oh, have a think about it, have a think if if you'd like to do it. And I was like, I no, I still I just never saw myself doing that. So anyway, I come home and Shane said, Oh, you've got a meeting tomorrow at about two. I was like, what meeting that I don't know about? What do you mean? He goes, Oh, um just you know, it's just like a little chat um with I said with who? He said, you know, just with the production company of Real Housewives. I said, I should we're just gonna have a little chat with them. And I was like, chat about what? Just so you can hear what it's about and what how they see, if you like literally did want to do it, just a little little chat. Remember, you don't have to do it, babe, it's just a little chat. So I was like, okay, reluctantly, okay. So we had a a Zoom and it was great, yeah. Honestly, like all the uh people that were on the Zoom from the production company, all fantastic, all um really positive. They really um spoke about how um I would be a good addition to the show, and they you know, let me know the format and you know how it's done, and it seemed really exciting. I've I've got to say, after I had that meeting, yeah, swept up in it. Yes, absolutely. Very much so. Um yeah, it sounded really exciting. Again, I think when COVID happened as well, I did sit and think about all the things that I was too scared to do. That if I got the opportunity to for it to come round again and for me to do it, I would take, I would take more opportunities, I would do more things that frighten me. Um this scared the hell out of me, but it sounded really exciting. So I remembered that conversation with myself and I was like, just give it a go. And if you don't like it, don't do it anymore. Yeah. Easy, yeah, easy peasy. So I said, right, I'll do one season. See how it goes. And if you hate it, you don't have to do another one because obviously you're not sort of tied in to do loads and loads and loads and loads of them. You kind of can they are easy like that, you can take it as you as as it comes. So I thought, right, just do one season, see how it goes. Did the season, I had the time of my life. Honestly, it was so much fun. Now I know not everybody has the same experience, but I can only talk about me. And I had a lot of fun. I got to meet loads of girls because I moved up and I had no friends actually in the north, northwest. Everyone I knew lived down south.

SPEAKER_01

Did you know any of the cast before the show? Nope. No, nobody.

SPEAKER_00

And I know that was unusual because usually people know I knew no one.

SPEAKER_01

That's maybe a added bonus.

SPEAKER_00

I think so. Because I said You didn't have prior beef with anything. This is what I'm talking about. So I said, um, I don't know it because there was so much historical beef. Like so much. I know I didn't know any of it. I didn't know you can just come in and be like, yeah, okay. Almost like the observer. And that's what I really felt like. I I did for a while on the show. I think I was really kind of very much on the outskirts, but that's because that's the way I felt. Because I hadn't been in uh years and years of relationship, this one fell out with that one, and that one did this, and I didn't it felt, I felt very much like that, but I liked it because it meant, first of all, that I didn't have preconceived ideas about people. So there was nobody in my ear saying, Well, so and so did this or did that, and you shouldn't like them, or there was none of that. I I could actually get to know people. And then see who you formed. And then see how I feel about people. I wasn't sort of, you know, poisoned against anyone or or had particular views. I honestly I didn't know anyone. My first conversations with every single one of the cast members was actually meeting them um while we were filming.

SPEAKER_01

Is there any like obviously you you obviously now you got closer to some people more than others? Who's your like go-to out of the housewives?

SPEAKER_00

My go-to right now, who's still in, yeah, would probably would be Paige.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I've had Paige on here. She's great. I love Paige.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think she's incredibly misunderstood.

SPEAKER_01

I do. Well, I don't know if she's misunderstood because I don't really watch like I don't haven't really watched much of it, but um I said to her, I said, I know you've got more depth to you than oh my gosh, yeah. Which it you never see. No, that you never see, and that actually, I said I went through her Instagram before she came in and I was like, Paige, you never talk about any of this then.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like she doesn't really get the opportunity to, there's so much going on, and you in fairness, they've got a lot to feel. So sometimes the things that possibly not everyone's gonna find entertaining. True, just yeah, absolutely, a conversion to Islam, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, how she feels about she's very spiritual. Exactly. I was trying to get her to do like a whole documentary on mushrooms when she was here.

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, and that's an avenue she wants to go down, she wants to start making documentaries. Honestly, and I think go for it, girl.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, get ITV to commission it. I said, really? I know. I said, but honestly, I was like, there's no one who's more like open-minded to it than you and who's done a lot of research. Yeah, she's she's a real she's book smart.

SPEAKER_00

She's book smart, incredible, and I say that all the never makes the show, but I say all the time, she's incredibly book smart and articulate, very and she's just really great to talk to. We've sat in hotel rooms and just literally talked about religion, and it's not surface-level shit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I got that.

SPEAKER_00

I totally, I really love her. Um, I think sometimes um originally sort of uh before I think this last season that was on TV, there was a few more girls in it that I was closer to that uh not in it at the minute. And I think you just end up connecting with people, not necessarily on things to do with the show, but on things outside of that. You know, I connected with Listra because um we both come from a Caribbean background. Um so I completely understood her and where she comes from, and and I it we just connected like that. Um I got on really, really well with Elle, and I think as well, people like Ellen Paige, they're at least well Elle's probably 20 years younger than you. Yeah, yeah. Paige, at least 10 years younger than me. So I think sometimes people see them as just being young and not, but I there's some of the most level-headed girls.

SPEAKER_01

Paige, honestly, really uh genuinely anybody who says, like, oh what was Paige like? I'm like, lovely. She's like Carm Waters, but very deep. Yes, she is.

SPEAKER_00

I'm so glad you've seen that about her.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I actually am all the time saying to people, she's great.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Really? I'm like, I promise.

SPEAKER_01

Well her Instagram tells a different story. It's and I was like, I think it's a defence mechanism that she's putting out. You might be right. Because I was like, you know, you're like keeping people at bay with your gorgeous hair and this and that, and you're showing up your handbags and your nails and whatever. Yeah. I said, and actually you don't share anything about like I think it's also, I think it's probably listen, listen to me talking about Paige's.

SPEAKER_00

I know she's not here. Sorry, but we love you. Um I think as well, she's had a hard time. Yeah. So I think she puts that up and it is a bit of an armour, it is a bit of a don't get to to me, because people haven't been kind.

SPEAKER_01

And so I do think people don't really understand it and are not open-minded and not willing to learn, and yeah, you know, so it's good that you've had that like one-on-one and you see absolutely, but you see, I saw that from the very beginning.

SPEAKER_00

She's mature, yeah, very mature, very isn't it mad though, how you can be on a TV show and you wouldn't know a single thing about that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I know, I know, which is a shame, but yeah, she's well, she's she's got it going on. She's I think so. Defo. So, yeah, so Paige is gorgeous, she's brilliant, brill. And then your husband is Shane Lynch from Boy Zone. Yes. So obviously, you've seen him, mega famous, you know, boy band, all that. You've always like the limelight's been on him, you're there as the support, you're looking after the kids, he's tore, whatever. And now it's like you're inviting that kind of limelight onto yourself, you know. And yeah, that might obviously he'd be we'd would be apprehensive, but also excited, maybe um mostly apprehensive.

SPEAKER_00

I was excited about because I I took House of Wives as as doing something for myself, so I I very much took it as right, that's something for me, this is what I'm doing, but yeah, um more apprehensive about people kind of seeing me because I was always not seen. So I and I I don't think I actually wanted to be seen. I shouldn't have taken it if I didn't want to be seen, but I actually didn't want to be seen, but I wanted to experience new things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I know. I know, but it's a good thing. It is a good thing. You can tot totally have conflicting emotions at the time. Two things can be true, can't they? Yeah, yeah. Two things can be true. Well, you of course you want to be like edited well, you don't want to come across bad. Of course. You're apprehensive about that because it's almost you're out of control. I was scared about saying the wrong thing. Yeah. And then you're blown up into a mountain out of a molehill.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, then you know everyone hates you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I know, and then you're getting trolled.

SPEAKER_00

You're gonna get trolled anyway.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then you become the villain of the whole piece, ensemble. Yeah, and then do you start playing that part and you play up to it a bit more?

SPEAKER_00

And then they're like a lot to think about. Yeah, there's a lot to think about. But what I will say is I think me being on the outskirts helped that not to happen because I wasn't too heavily involved in everything that was going on. So I think sometimes some people that are new, like if you're new in the show, I always think it's a massive mistake to be like full on to begin with and be in every single thing. I just think just sit back, just just for a bit, just for a while. Don't don't get too heavily involved in any kind of big disagreement that's that's going on in the show.

SPEAKER_01

I know you've come from like quite a working class uh background.

SPEAKER_00

Would I describe my would I describe my background as working class? It's it's uh it's a bit of a dilemma because so my mum and dad came to this country in the um what they call the the windrush, the they were part of the windrush generation, um which is um when the first sort of people from the Caribbean British government asked, because obviously um uh the Caribbean was a part of the Commonwealth at the time, and after the war, they asked uh for the people from the Caribbean to come to help rebuild the country. So, you know, people came over and they were given jobs in the NHS, rebuilding the streets on the buses, on the trains, things like that. And my parents were a part of that generation that came over. So my mum and dad came here with nothing, absolutely, but. I mean, they owned their own home, um, they worked, we had a really nice life, you know, we weren't rich, but I don't ever remember feeling like I didn't lack for anything.

SPEAKER_01

No, but it was just a normal normal girl, normal algorithm.

SPEAKER_00

My dad was a bishop. Yeah. My mum and dad were both missionaries, so they travelled the world building schools, churches, you know, doing all sorts of charity work around the world. Um, but um, yeah, very much normal in the sense that, you know, the six of us, we've got a mum and dad, we all live together, and it was lovely. Not normal in the sense that my mum and dad spent a lot of time travelling the world, and you know, I spent a lot of time, all my brothers and sisters are much older than me, like my sister's 21 years older than me. They kind of brought me up, you know, when while my mum and dad was was on the mission, you call it. Yeah. So yeah, not not traditional in that sense, but traditional. So, and then uh how did you meet Shane? So I used to be a singer um profession professionally, um, and I was um working, so I met him while I was working. Years and years ago, there used to be this event at Hyde Park called Party in the Park, and it was for the Prince's Trust. So it was like put on by Prince Charles, and it was in Hyde Park, and you'd have, I mean, artists from all over the world come and they do this massive concert. And I was at the time I was singing for Westlife. Right. And I met Shane at Party in the Park in the year 2000. Wow. I know, a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01

I know, wow, 2000. I mean their backstage. Nice, and was it like love at first sight?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I remember because I actually was well, I'll probably still am boring, but back then it was work for me. Like singing was work. So I I never it was never for me like outlay, party. It was never about that. Do my job, go home. Um, I happened to be with a friend, we were hungry, there was a catering um tent, and we said, look, let's grab something to eat and then let's go. And so we went into the catering tent, and that's where Shane was. Now, usually I would just go straight home, but we ended up and I I seen I seen Shane and I said, Oh my god, because and obviously were you a boys' own fan? No, no, no, no. I was I was a West Life fan. No, I was massively, um I was a muso, so music, I was massively into uh at the time. I I loved hip hop, I loved RB, I loved metal, I I loved all kinds of music. Um, but yeah, I saw him and I was like, oh my god, he is stunning. They're shame in Boyson. But he was be like beautiful with the bluest of eyes, just stunning.

SPEAKER_01

JP, do you want to get up a picture of him from Boys and pin it into this chat? So when we're when the viewers are watching this, they can see what we're seeing.

SPEAKER_00

Just be just stunned, like he you could just see him. He was like stunning.

SPEAKER_01

And he still had all the tattoos and stuff, Jimmy.

SPEAKER_00

And not as many, many as not as many as he has now, but like beautiful, still he's absolutely beautiful. But I just remember just being like, whoa. And so my friend said, Go and talk to him. And I was like, Are you joking?

SPEAKER_01

Insane.

SPEAKER_00

Go and talk to him. She goes, Yeah, just go over and talk to him. I was like, oh, just casually hi, walk over and talk to him. I was like, no, I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it. So anyway, as we're walking by, she shoved me into them.

SPEAKER_01

Oh God, how embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to die. I wanted to die. So she literally did that and I got shoved into him.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so I'm trying to pick your one for now.

SPEAKER_00

Do you want an up-to-date one or do you want no?

SPEAKER_01

What's he what was he like 26 years ago? So the year 2000.

SPEAKER_00

Year 2000.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Did he have the blonde hair? Yes, he yes, he did. Oh he is the handsome guy though, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay. Nice.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, blonde hair. Yeah, he pretty much looked like that. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Nice. Okay, so she shoves you into him, yeah. And he's like, Oh, sorry though.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, shoving me, and she goes, he goes, Oh, are you okay? Are you okay? I was like, I'm fine, fine. We just struck up a conversation. And I probably went home that night at about 2 a.m. Oh really? Chat and just chat. So we sat in this catering, talking, talking, talking. Um, and then he goes, Oh, we're going to I think at the time it was the Titanic. Was it the Titanic Club in London? One of the clubs in London, anyway. I don't want to give anyone free advertising. But yeah. We he said, Oh, we're going to this club after do you want to come? So I was like, okay, I'll come along. And the thing about it was right, is he just felt like home. I was just it was just nice. There was no it wasn't even like you felt like the person was, oh, I I really fancy you.

SPEAKER_01

It wasn't like it was just we nervous that he was like famous, pop star.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I think part of another part of the reason why I didn't want to go over was because what if he's a complete arsehole? Yeah. I mean, how utterly disappointing would that be? And I just I think I just assumed he was gonna be awful. Yeah, yeah. Um but he was the complete opposite, so nice, really flipping, easy to talk to. Yeah. Um, and I just felt so comfy. Um so it was a b he was with a big group of friends. I was with my friend, they had a uh uh big vanny type paper people carrier outside. He goes, We can get a lift and go, and I never felt in danger at all. I mean, this is not something I'd advocate for women to do, but I just it it was just nice, we it just was good. So we ended up at this other um club, and all we did there was talk the whole time. Music blaring, everything, chat, chat, chat. We're chatting, talking, and literally just went from there. Um and that was in the year 2000, yeah. And that's like, and then you've been together ever since. Yeah, so we uh kind of saw each other for a year, then didn't see each other for a year at all, and then bumped into each other of all places at Top of the Pops. Right, I was working. Um, I think he was working, he might have just been drinking, I'm not sure. There used to be a um Top of the Pops used to have like a bar there called the Star Bar, and um, it was where you could go after you've performed and hang out. So we happened to bump into each other there, and then um that was it. Inseparable. Wow. And I really mean that. Like he came to my he'd leave my house at about 4 a.m. because I lived with my mum and dad, and there's no way he could stay over. Yeah. So he um he used to like leave at four and come back by 10 the next morning. Oh wow, we spent for a year every single day together. Every day. Just besotted with each other. Besotted. Oh, that's absolutely besotted.

SPEAKER_01

And it's still it's still we still are. Uh well, one of my questions was you I mean, you've been married to how when did you get married? 2007. Okay, so you've been married yeah, 19 years this year. And you're a you know, you've navigated a lot of challenges together, you know, fame, everything. Everything. Like kids, you name it. Yeah. Like what's the secret?

SPEAKER_00

Do you know? I don't think there is a secret. I d this whole what's as what's the secret to a successful marriage. I I don't necessarily believe there is a secret. I think what works for me ain't necessarily gonna work for you at all. I think you have to if you're gonna be married for a really long time, I think you have to uh get ready and be prepared for the person to change. Now, who I was when we got married 19 years ago, that ain't that girl today, but you know you know, there's a lot of growing to be done, and I think as long as you allow for that and understand that, I think you will be okay. People are gonna change, you are, and you're allowed to. Because you hear that a lot in marriages, they changed, they changed. Of course, of course it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

As long as you as there's a lot of people who grow apart, yeah, and there's a lot of people who grow together, absolutely, you know, he's gonna grow, you're gonna grow. Exactly. Sometimes he'll be in front, sometimes you'll be in front.

SPEAKER_00

Very much so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, and it's about not leaving your partner behind as well in those moments.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, you know, it it's marriage. What's what's the analogy? Marriage is like it's like a garden, isn't it? It's sometimes it's uh in the summer, it's sunny. Yeah, in the winter it needs a bit of upkeep and looks a little bit shabby. Hide ranges look like skeletons, exactly, exactly. But you've got to be willing to wanna work, yeah, persevere.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, people are difficult, yeah. They just are, and they can go through challenging times, you know. Life it get knocks along the way, temptations along the way. 100%. We were just talking before you came in. Obviously, the Odyssey's on. Oh, I want to go and see that. Yeah, is it good? It's well, I haven't seen it yet, but I've read the book twice. And I was saying to JP, if you've not read the book, um, like you've gotta everyone's odyssey is different for everybody. I've got no concept of it. Oh, really? Okay, so the Odyssey is like a metaphor for life. Odysseus is trying to get home after the war, but along the way, he's meeting monsters and sirens and stuff, and it's all they're all it's absolutely bigger meaning to everything. People are just reading it like it's a fantasy story, and it is that too. But it's all about a man coming home and to his wife, and it's 20 years it takes him, but along the way, there's like monsters which are gonna be knocks, the setbacks, he gets blown off course, he gets lost, the sirens, which are like temptations. It there's a lot of deep depth, it is deep, it's not just for an action movie. It's not okay, okay. There's a reason why it's enthralled readers for 3,000 years, yeah. Um, and I've read it and critically read it, obviously, because I had Danyer level in it, but um, yeah, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm dragging Shane to see that. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01

I've said to go and yeah, before you go, I don't know, watch a little like YouTube video of somebody like deconstructing actually what it's truly about. It's not gonna spoil it for me. No, okay, because I mean, even though I've read it twice and I'm actually rereading it again and wanted to finish it before I watched it again, just to remind myself. But don't you? But it's a brilliant story.

SPEAKER_00

When you've read something, then you go and watch the film and it's just crap.

SPEAKER_01

Not with the Odyssey, but the Odyssey is like I do agree with that, by the way. There's so many movies I've watched. And because when you read a book, you can get into the protagonist's head because it tells you kind of more detail than actually what appears on screen. So I totally get that. But with the Odyssey, it's um more metaphorical. It's actually a poem, it's an epic poem. Um, anyway, I won't uh ramble on about it. No, I'm actually glad I had this conversation because I'd have been sat there like you can, you totally can watch it at surface level and be like, oh yeah, I'm Hathaway Odysseus, but there are actual deeper meanings.

SPEAKER_00

And the people that are complaining about it, are they the people that don't understand it?

SPEAKER_01

Maybe. Okay, but you're supposed to read the book and it's you you're basically seeing yourself in the book and it's how you react to reflecting yourself. Well, it is so that's why I say everyone's Odyssey is different whenever they read it, because it's what you pull from what happens to him basically. Look at me using my A-level classics here, which I love that my teacher never thought I would.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but they'll watch the plan and be super proud. That was amazing. Oh wow, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01

They used to absolutely hate me, they really did. Why? I wasn't like I was such a stupid immature girl. Even at 18, I was so immature. Were you just a girl, a young girl? I know. I was everyone in my class that was a lot more mature than me, and I was just like quite disruptive and just like couldn't really focus and stuff. Um and when I got an eight, she literally, I've still got my report, I put it on Instagram the other week because she put, you have done beyond my wildest dream. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I fucking revised that. Yeah, yeah. But do you think it's because you were really clever and bored? I wasn't clever, I had to work at it. I'm not naturally like clever, and I do things I'm motivated by things that I wanted to do, but I was motivated. But I thought it's it's actually quite interesting, Greek mythology, and learn all these questions. I do Greek and Roman studies, but we didn't do the other C.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01

No, well, it it is interesting. Um, so I could get down with it. You know, math was absolutely dreadful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, in fact, it's embarrassing how bad.

SPEAKER_01

I had an extra tutor for three nights a week just to get a C.

SPEAKER_00

I was told, my maiden name is White, I was told whites aren't good at maths, don't worry. Yeah, but my family were like, don't worry about maths.

SPEAKER_01

Now I'm I don't honestly now I've had a little girl and I was like, oh, I want the best for her. And now AI's coming. I'm just like, what is the point? What's the point? What's the point? I mean, I do love a bit of AI though. Who doesn't? It's making my brain like mush.

SPEAKER_00

I do agree with that, but also I got a letter the other day from um pensions, pensions company, and I mean, I didn't have a clue what this letter was talking about. I literally put it in and say, Can you explain this to me like I'm stupid? And I mean the most beautiful, clear, concise explanation. I love it for things like that. Yeah, it is, it's good.

SPEAKER_01

But that's the thing, you don't need what's the point in having a degree in anything? Yeah, you honestly don't need it. You probably it uh vocationally, yes, but there's so many jobs that weren't it's honestly. I used to really bat university, but now I'm saddled with so much student debt still at 40 years old. Good lord. Like because they keep putting the interest up on it, and I'm just like, this is scandal, innit? It's it is actually a scandal, should be just wiped because I reckon I've paid 35 grand. They only but I only borrowed 17. I've paid 35 grand back or something crazy like that. I know you need and now I've and I've still got loads left to pay. It's just mental. Oh my god, that makes me feel sick. It's bad because they ch you take your loan out whenever it was years ago, but then they changed the deal, so then they added more interest. But it was like if you that was a bank that's completely illegal because if you took a bank loan, the the bank wouldn't have been able to change the loan agreement halfway through it, but that's what the government did. So it's a real scandal.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but I think people supposed to have everything stupid.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway, that's what this country's about. But there you go.

SPEAKER_00

So you meet Shane and I need to move country, actually. Don't we all don't? Don't we all? Anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_01

So you meet Shane and it like at this point, Boys Own, are they still touring? Are they still going?

SPEAKER_00

Still releasing music. Originally, when we met, no, they were on a break uh originally when we met. Um so although I knew it was from this big band, at the time when we first met, I didn't he wasn't doing he was racing cars, so he went from doing pop being a pop star to being a race car driver. So essentially that's what he did. Um and then once we were married, the year after, they started up again and started touring again and and and putting out albums. And so then And did you go on tour with them?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, back in yeah, I did, yeah. I Were you singing with them?

SPEAKER_00

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, strictly at that point. Once we got married and had kids, I decided that it's gonna focus on the kids. Yeah, well, he was never at home. I was never at home. We were both touring art, you know, artists. Obviously, I was just a B V, he was an actual artist, but we were never at home, and I just thought if we're gonna start a family, somebody needs to be at home. And I know this isn't an option that's available for everyone, and I'm really bloody lucky that I could say, you know what, I'll I'll stop and I'll I'll be at home with the girls, um, with the kids. I grew up like that, and he grew up, and it's just something that I really, really wanted, and I was lucky enough to be able to um to do that. So um, yeah, I yeah, I yeah, I did. I used to used to go away and it was great fun. We had great fun. Even before the kids, um, I take time off and do stuff. I mean I went on a um uh tour of Asia. Oh yeah, amazing. Amazing, yeah, yeah, it's some some of the best times ever. Oh, really, really great memories.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I remember obviously first time round, it must have been for them like huge. I remember, well, I was like growing up, and obviously Love Boys Earn at the time, like amazing, and I mean they were a massive boy band, and then they came back round, and actually they've just done another like only a couple of weeks ago, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They did um two nights at um two nights at a stadium.

SPEAKER_01

Stadium, yeah. And I really wanted to go, and lots of people that went. I wish I'd have known. I know, I wish I'd have like done this before. But um, everyone who went said it, oh my god, it's incredible. Good, it was incredible.

SPEAKER_00

It it really was. It was like because they've had some absolute bangers. I forget, if I'm gonna be honest, um the hits they've had. I completely actually watching the show, I was like, oh my god. Yeah, it's really it was ri it was like a massive, weirdly, a massive sort of family reunion, even though I don't know 75,000 people because that's kind of what it was per night. Like it was insane. Yeah. Um, you could tell everyone was like, Yes, it's nostalgia, yeah, yeah. And that's what everyone's craving. Everyone was so happy. And like you what I loved about it is you had like mums and daughters. Good night out. Yeah, just a everyone just having a great night out. It was good fun.

SPEAKER_01

And are they gonna continue or could Mikey in a bit of ill health now?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a little bit, yeah. Yeah, he's he's got his own struggles um going on. So who knows? You know, and never say never. I'm not in the band, so I can't speak for them. No, exactly. I get asked a thousand and one questions, and I'm like, you know, I'm not in boys, yeah. Yeah, so I I can't answer for everything. Yeah, but who knows?

SPEAKER_01

No, I know. And if they enjoy doing it and people want to go see it, then crack on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's yeah, no, it was good fun. It it it was it was it's always fun, especially this time around for my girls, because they'd seen their dad on stage, but they were tiny, like really small. It had been a while since they had because it's their dad, they don't really see him as a big pop star or anyone famous, to be honest. So it was great for them to get to see, you know, this is what this is what dad does. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you're in Housewives now, and uh like you are you gonna continue with it? Are you really happy there?

SPEAKER_00

I am happy, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always say when I stop having fun, I'll just stop doing it. Um, when it's when it starts to get tedious, I will stop doing it. And I'm still having fun with it. So I will continue for as long as it's a good time.

SPEAKER_01

And a lot of them, the ladies, they always like start businesses on the show. Yeah. Is that something you want to get into?

SPEAKER_00

I am really uh when I say new to business, I mean uh Shane's been doing business for a long time. I think um he got to a point of I can't be doing music industry forever. Yeah, there has to be something else, and so it meant that he was kind of in the background always doing something. He has kind of empowered me into it. Um, so it is a new thing, a very new thing for me, and I love it, but I'm learning so much, so much. Yeah. Well, uh it is difficult. Holy god, but it there's so much, and sometimes I do feel completely out of my depth, like completely in his businesses, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you ever start your own like business? I think yes. I'm looking at you right now when I'm thinking jewellery.

SPEAKER_00

I adore jewellery. Yeah, I do I I adore it.

SPEAKER_01

I'm literally thinking, if it's not jewellery, I don't know when it's you know somebody else said that to me.

SPEAKER_00

You know who said that to me? Hannah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'll tell you right now that me and Hannah, if you stuck between me and her, yeah, you wouldn't go far wrong.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because she's a super smart business woman.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I know, I do know that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Me and Hannah talk a lot and she's killing it. Yeah, I know, I know, I know she is. And I'm telling you now, it's like two of us who've done it, and telling you she said to me and I I'll drop in and tell you the other side of it and say, fuck it, I made this mistake, this this. Genuinely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, she said because I don't know why you're not doing jewellery.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I would love to, but again, there's that side of me that's like, well, not on my own. Like who how it's the thought of just you frightens me.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, but you're you're doing things that make you scared. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

The big talk in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So absolutely. I would love to, and I am full of ideas when it comes to things like that because I am I am a creative, I'm not scholastic, so that that side makes me very nervous. If I had somebody that could guide me on on that side of it, 100%, I think. But you've got AI now. Yeah. What is that? What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is that? Yeah. Um yeah, no, look, yes, absolutely. Jewelry is something that I I would love. I've dipped my toes in. I did, um, we used to have a shoe company, and I dipped my toes in and did my own line of shoes, not expecting anything really to come from it. I just wanted to get the experience of creating something.

SPEAKER_01

I'll tell you why jewellery is better than shoes straight away. Go on. Right. Shoes, you need a lot of storage space to store them. And you also need a lot of sizes and colours.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Jewelry, yeah. No. And guess what jewellery does? Goes through the letterbox. Yeah. So now you're saving and you're shipping a lot. And you could store your entire jewellery in the corner of that room. Right. So you know your storage costs and nil. Yeah. Your postage costs are next to nil.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And people pay if the markup's amazing. Yeah. That's why jewellery's great. I'll tell you that right now. Okay. That's what my hammer knows. And I'm telling you that. I know that. So honestly, I looked at you before, and I'm thinking, if it's not like jewellery business, I don't know what No, I adore it and I tons of it.

SPEAKER_00

Like it's it's a part of me.

SPEAKER_01

And I think there's I know there's a lot of like, yeah, you can get like cheap junk jewellery, can't you? That like goes green and all the rest of it. Yeah, I'm not interested in that. No. But you can get with some really cool pieces that are like plated. Yes. That will last.

SPEAKER_00

I know the industry's come a long way now, and it doesn't all have to be completely solid and real. And like they've there's a lot of a lot of jewellery now that is water proof. You can get sweat proof, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sweat-proof, anything, so it depends what level. And like look at your audience, you're on real housewives. Yeah, everyone in there is wearing jewelry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I know it connects. I do know it's just got I don't know why I'm just like I think it's because it would just be me. Everything I've done, I do with I do with Shane. Every as every business thing we've done.

SPEAKER_01

Of course he would. He would be the literally sitting there, you throwing around ideas with him. He's a creative guy as well. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, you could even do men's jewellery, so that's booming now. Is it really men's? Yeah. I've got a husband who doesn't wear any, so well, honestly. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Has a company got crafted. Well, they're on target to 100 million.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So uh with men's jewelry. With men's jewelry. They only sell men's jewellery. Wow. And they're in Manchester.

SPEAKER_00

Really? That's the other thing moving up here. I didn't realise. Oh my god. Very entrepreneurial. Isn't it? Yeah, very. That shocked me. Yeah. Another thing that I loved moving up here is when somebody said, Let's do that, they mean it.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00

They mean that shit. Well, yeah. Down south, you hear that all the time. And it's like, I'd love to do that. Never happens. Yeah. That is one of the things that made magic for me up here. I was like, oh, you mean it. And they get on with it. And you get on with it. When you're trying to start something up and you've got people surrounding you saying, love it, let's do it. And they're doing it. Oh, I I found that like loved it. Yeah. Because I was so used to it being complete opposite.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And it's just chatting shit. Oh, let's plan, let's plan, let's plan it a bit more. Just do it, man. Just get on with it. You'll learn it as you go. Yeah. You'll uh you'll know you've messed up when you've sold off of it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that is important as well. But you refine. Yeah. If you wait till it's perfect to start, you never get started in it. Yeah. You just learn it on the job. You have to do it. You just learn. How is it being a mum? I love it.

SPEAKER_00

I I love it. So I never saw myself as a mum when I was younger. I didn't really think about it. I didn't really think about it.

SPEAKER_01

Because you've got a big family, lots of brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_00

I think because, right, I kind of looked at my older sister and she got married in her 40s and doesn't have any kids. And so I think I naturally just thought, oh, that's just what I'll do, really. I was not thinking about families, put it that way. I wanted to sing, I wanted to be on stage, I wanted to act. And so I was just like, well, I can do that later. Like if I want to do it, it wasn't something that was massively important to me. And then I met Shane and he massively was loved kids. And then I was like, oh, I really, really do want kids with this person. It's just that I just didn't, yeah. Yeah. It was like, oh, I I get how amazing this could be, and I know he's gonna make an amazing dad. So um I got pregnant with Billy really easily. You know, God is good. I found that part easy. I know so many women have struggled so much with that, and I just cannot imagine. Um had Billy and I remember hating every second. Really? Yeah, to begin with, yeah. That that newborn phase. So I had Billy and then Shane went on tour. So um I moved to the country, but I didn't have neighbours, I didn't know anyone. I was completely on my own. But I had Billy and I'd never been more sad ever. I've never been more lonely. I didn't feel like I knew what I was doing, I didn't feel like I had anyone to talk to. Now, so when I first had her, uh my mother-in-law came over for a bit and stayed, and she was unbelievable. Everyone has to go in. My sister came over and stayed, and she was unbelievable. But everyone has to go, everyone's got their lives, they can't be with you for forever. And I was on my own and I found it so hard. She was uh difficult in the sense that she didn't sleep and she she just didn't have a great routine. She probably because I was so sad. Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think you had a little bit of postpartum? Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. I I think um not sleeping doesn't help. Of course.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because you just uh you just space it out, aren't you half the time? And I I'm a girl that needs to sleep.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I have to go to bed at night. It's it's very important that I sleep. I'm not the same person if I don't sleep. So um I just remember thinking, I can't do it. And I remember saying to Shane, I changed my mind. Yeah, I remember saying to him, I changed my mind. It's hard as well, he's out there, yeah, he's on tour. I changed my mind, I changed my mind, I don't like it, I don't like it. And I'm trying to remember I can't remember like a concise moment that it was like, oh, I'm fine now. I just remember being like this is great. I think she started to go to nursery and I started to meet people, and I ended up meeting uh a lady who was um so Billy made friends, so there was only two kids in the nursery that could speak and that were dry, and it was Billy and another little girl, and because they could talk, they used to talk to each other and they ended up ended up becoming friends, and I ended up her grandma used to bring her and I ended up talking to the grandma and um she was a lovely, lovely lady, and she said, I think you get on with my daughter, and I remember thinking, Oh god, because I'm terrible at meeting new people, I'm really, really shocking. Um, I'm not the most outgoing girl. I I'm very mistrusting of people, so I just was like, I really don't want to meet your daughter. She was like, Oh no, no, how do I tell this really nice lady that I really I'm good, like I don't want to meet your daughter? Um and she was like, No, you'd really get on. So my little girl had a play date with her granddaughter at their house, and um her daughter came over. And I mean, she's my one of my besties for now. Yeah, yeah. We would just got on great, and I think it was meeting her, and then I constantly, Shane was never at home. I'd constantly be at theirs, they'd have me over for dinner, they'd have the kids, we'd go out. Um, her her mum was a she used to be a night nurse, so she was great with kids, and so we'd leave the kids with her, and we go, and I just then began to yeah, have your own little bit of a network. Yeah, yeah, felt a bit like myself again. So important. Yeah, you have to have the your village, don't you? Exactly. I started to have a village, and that at that point it changed everything, and I started to really enjoy it, and now, oh my god, yeah, I think I'm having the best time now, actually. So uh my my two girls are about to be 18 and about to be 14. And now, oh my god, I I love them so much. They're like my I know this is terrible to say, but when I mean, when I say they're like friends, because I'm very much their mother, believe me. But when I say they're like my friends, what I mean is I love spending time with them. Yeah, I love hanging out with them, I love just sitting and chatting. They are the best company. I think I've probably learned the most about myself being a mum. Um, it's I I call them my greatest teachers. My two kids are probably my greatest teachers. God, the patience I exercise. My god.

SPEAKER_01

Mine's three at the moment. Oh wow. Okay. She is she's just horrible to me. First of all, I didn't expect that. Nobody, she behaves brutal, aren't they? Oh my god. She is amazing for her nanny, amazing for my grandma, like my mum and everyone, teachers. They're like, oh my god, she's amazing. She's got another gold star today because she's helped us tidy up. She's the only child that's done it. I'm like, and when I'm at, I'm like, come on, Grace, need to brush your teeth, brush your hair. She's like, I'm not talking to you. She's just horrible to me.

SPEAKER_00

But I think I prefer it that way round than rather when she's with other people, they're like, can't stand my kid. Exactly. Yeah. I think I'd take that away, man.

SPEAKER_01

I Google all the time, has my daughter got behavioural issues? Because I was like, she just can't be this calculating to me. But because the fact that she only does it for me, I know it's she turns out. She's not a mum. She's a mum. And yeah, and you always speak to your mum like shit, don't we?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Oh god, of course you do. I gave my mum such a hard time. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

It's hard, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

It is, yeah, it's really difficult. But um, yeah, I mean, I remember that young stage, and yeah, it is really difficult. And I, as well, because I think I'm a warrior, and I always used to worry, like, for instance, oh, I didn't have a nanny or anything like that because I'm a warrior and I didn't trust anyone. And I always used to think if something was wrong, they can't verbalise it to me, they can't tell me, it used to make me panic. So I'd only leave her with like relatives, and relatives don't always want them, they've got to go out and stuff. So I didn't have a nanny. So um now that we can talk and it it's great. I love it. I think I started to really well. My second, well, my first was a guinea pig for my second, my second was like easy street. Oh easy street, you know, it was like anxious. Nah, and she's she was such a chill baby, and I think it's because of me. I think it's because I wasn't anxious. Poor Billy. I mean, she I think she got the worst of me, and I get really sad about that because she's a great girl. So I always am like, God, if I could do it over again, I would just You don't know what you don't know though. Yeah, you don't, you're right. But I do I do often think, God, you got like Imagine you as a grandma though. You'd be so emotional. I say this all the time, but my two are like, I haven't kids. Yeah, of course, they all say that. She's like, no, thanks. Like, you'll change your no, I won't. Yeah, I I I actually, this is probably not right to say, but in terms I'm not that old, but I oh my god, I cannot wait to be here. Yeah, I don't want my girls to have kids early either.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just saying when that happens, yeah, I can't wait. You'll be like super grand. I can't wait. Oh, that's so sweet. So, okay, so what's next for you? What is next for how when you're filming again with housewives? Are you currently doing a season? We've literally just finished, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we're on a break for a minute. Um, so um, that probably's not gonna air till September, October, I don't think. So, yeah, so the show um usually starts filming again New Year, usually, depending on what's going on. Obviously, I don't have control over that. Um, so there'll be that, but I'll look forward to doing that. And then obviously, we've got our perfume uh Amen fragrances. I know we've not even spoken about the A-Men fragrances, it's actually I love it. Do you? Yeah, first of all, I love fragrance. Yeah, um I ended up spending quite a fortune on perfumes, and then what would happen is is I wouldn't use them. Yeah. And then they go off. Yeah, or you just literally are like I'll use it for a special occasion and then and put it away. Um and then when I discovered that because I knew about um uh inspired by fragrances, but I don't think I understood that actually it's so a am I allowed to say a Tom Ford fragrance that doesn't cost uh 400 quid to make it. It doesn't cost that to make it. What you're paying for is obviously they spend millions on advertising, millions and millions, and that's actually the majority of what you're paying for. And I guess you're also paying because people like to have a uh designer, they like to be a part of a designer for you know a brand. So um I was like when I found out it doesn't cost that much to make, and then my business partner in Northern Ireland was like, Oh, I know exactly how you make them and what it got. And when when he broke it all down, I was like, So can we do that? He's like, Absolutely, because do you want to do it? I went, I'd love to do it. So um yeah, we ended up going travelling about a bit. I went to Dubai for fragrances, um India, places like that to look for the oils, because that's actually the essential bit. Um, and we put it all together just as like a little tester, just to see how I put a few out of fragrances that I like, um, and you know, we were trying to match them. It ended up working out perfectly. And it's it is like a fraction of the cost of what we are. Now I think people generally turn their noses up at it because they think somehow it's inferior. If what I'm trying to get across is yes, there are brands out there that are literally skimping. So what happens is is some brands use the tiniest amount of oil and the rest is the alcohol. And so it's why it's not lasting, it's it's why it's it's not not necessarily a great a great smell. But where we can control that, we make sure we've got a much higher percentage of oil in in our in our fragrances. And yeah, when I was like, so hold on a minute, a 400-pound bottle of perfume literally can cost 20 quid. Are you joking? So that was it. I was like, I swept, and I literally just replaced them with our fragrances, and then I was like, let's get it out. Let's let's let's just see what happens. Let's get it out and see.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and how's it all going?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's going really well. I mean, we're a tiny little company. Um, I think we're coming up for year three, but it's going really well. So when we first started, we um we had great visions of having a shop, and we thought we'd have lots of aiming shops, but actually, assuming we'll do retail. Don't do retail. Don't do retail.

SPEAKER_01

How do you get sales? Do you do online marketing? Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I think that's kind of where I come in is I I'm used to do all the ads, all the marketing, which I love doing. I love I actually really enjoy that side of it. Um, but yeah, it's all online, everything's online. The show helped massively. We look we ended up launching some of it on the show, and that that helped massively. But I think essentially, uh the thing is getting people to try it because people are nervous about it. Um, but once you try it, you're like, are you joking? Yeah so I say I often say, listen, buy your Gucci's, your tum, have it on the side, put MM fragrances in your handbag to take around.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. So I've got like them in my in my gym bag and in the car. Yeah. Yeah, I mean.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Absolutely. Uh just have that one as your carrier round. No one will know. No one's gonna know the difference. And I also made sure that if you did want to put it on your dressing table, then it looked great. Yeah. So just that the just a little simple black bottle, chic, gorgeous. Um, doesn't necessarily say, you know, I'm inspired by, um, could be anything. Um, but yeah, no, it's it's it's going really well. I mean, we're happily plodding along at the minute. Um uh so yeah, uh we're kind of like Shane used to say to me, it probably takes about five years for a business to really get going. Get going. So, you know, you can't lose, you can't be like, oh, it's not turning over, such. You've got to just let it go, let it go. And it's yeah, it's going really well. We're very pleased, basically. So we want we want to branch into like um diffusers and uh room scents and things like that. Candles, candles, all of that sort of stuff. We that's the direction that that we'd love to go in. But we want to get this first bit right. I don't want to race ahead of ourselves either.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, cut your teeth on this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then expand when it's a bit more well-known. Exactly. But yeah, you'll start gathering pace. Yeah. Especially being on the show. Yeah. And the more profile you build, obviously, the more that will build at the same time. Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Fingers crossed. And I think obvious obviously it massively helps that Shane's a part of it as well. Um and it's a good product. It's honestly. Well then you're gonna get repeat purchases. And this is the thing that we're seeing. Our our our repeat is apparently is is amazing. Yeah. Um, and it's essentially, I've always said it's just about getting people to try it because I know once you try it, you're gonna be like, oh, that's brilliant. It smells exactly the same. Yeah. Although I'm not supposed to say that. No, I know.

SPEAKER_01

Inspired by. Yeah, yeah. I used to know some paid marketeers, they used to run Essence Vault. Oh, I know Essence Vault, yeah. They were killing it. Essence Vault were killing it. They still are, yeah. Yeah, so it's so you can look at that and think it can be done. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you're not reinventing the wheel, it can be done.

SPEAKER_00

So it's just a fun industry to be a part of as well. It's it's fragrance. Yeah. Who doesn't love perfume? No, I know. It's it's actually a really gorgeous industry to be. I went over to um Beauty Beauty World in Dubai.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, that's a a big exhibition thing for makeup, fragrances, all sorts of stuff. Um, and just people that you're on the phone with, manufacturers that you're on the phone with. Oh, it's good to meet them, isn't it? Yeah, so good. And they're all gorgeous people. And really what I've noticed about it is everyone's so bloody happy. Loving their job, um, loving um the manufacturers, blooming. If you bring them something, they're like, challenge, accept it. No, it's lovely. It's it's a really nice industry to be a part of, and it's nice. I think I like also having something that is a part of somebody's everyday life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I get a little bit of a kick out of that. Like you kind of become a part of their world. They have your product and they use it every becomes just part of your everyday world. So I I love having something like that as well. Very good.

SPEAKER_01

But I think that is a perfect place to end the podcast. Thank you very much. That was very short, great. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's not an hour and twenty we've been talking. No way. Well, maybe just over an hour. Are you joking? No. I feel like I've been a half hour. No. Well, I hope you've enjoyed it. Jesus, yes, I have. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00

I have enjoyed it. I've had a lovely time. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming in. Thank you for being my first pod on my own. No problem. Yeah, it's it was lovely. It was lovely talking to you. First of many, I'm sure.