Let's Get Curious with Replenishing Soul

Episode #19: Exhausted, Wired, or Stuck? How Light & Workout Timing Impact Hormones & Healing

Lori, Dorothy, Josh & Jeanne Rubin Episode 19

In this episode, Dorothy and I are joined once again by Josh and Jeannie from RealFood Gangstas, and we dive into a conversation that bridges light, movement, nervous system regulation, and real-life balance. We kick things off with a Q&A about something that impacts us all—light exposure—and how something as simple as getting outside at the right time of day can deeply support your biology, hormones, and emotional regulation.

Josh explains why early morning sunlight is so crucial, how our biology is synced to the light-dark cycle, and how exposure to natural light—especially red and infrared light at sunrise—can be a game changer for your health. We talk about how blue light and screen time, especially for kids, are interfering with basic biological processes like melatonin production, cortisol regulation, and gut function. But this isn’t about being perfect—it’s about finding rhythm and balance in a modern world that often works against our biology.

From there, we shift into a powerful conversation around movement and the ideal time of day to work out. Josh and Jeannie break down how our cortisol rhythm, sun cycles, and seasonal shifts all influence the best time for movement—typically between 10am and 3pm, when our body is more metabolically ready. We talk about how morning or late-night workouts can sometimes spike stress hormones and interrupt key repair processes, especially for those dealing with autoimmune issues, hormone imbalances, or adrenal fatigue.

That said, this isn’t about restriction or rigid rules. We explore practical, flexible ways to honor your biology without losing the routines that support your mental and emotional health. Whether it's modifying your workouts, shifting walking times, or simply tuning into how your body feels on a given day, the RealFood Gangstas offer strategies that are both science-based and incredibly human.


SHOW NOTES:

My Circadian App:  enter Realfg for a trial period

Midwest Red Light Therapy:  use CODE: Eastwesthealing

Viva Rays: use CODE: Getoutside15


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Disclaimer:
The information shared on this podcast is for informational purposes only and is based on the opinions and experience of Lori Dorothy and their guests. The content should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or a treatment. Always seek the advice of your healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you heard on this podcast.

///Welcome to let's get curious. The podcast for women and mothers seeking connection, support, and inspiration. We are friends, mothers, and therapists. Laurie, a physical therapist and Dorothy, a speech and language therapist. Together. We share our personal stories, including IVF birth experiences and navigating children's learning difficulties. Through our discussions, we uncover profound lessons for personal growth. Join us on this journey of curiosity, compassion and empowerment. Welcome to let's. Get curious

Lori:

Hello everyone. Dorothy and I are back again with Josh and Jeannie from, the Real Food gangsters on Instagram. As you probably all know, they are super special to me and, I wanted to have them back on today so that we can kind of go through a q and a. And just go through some questions that I have for myself when I'm watching all of the amazing information that you're putting up, on the web for all of us to learn from and take better control of our health. So, if that works for all of you, then I would love to start with just asking you guys some questions.

Josh & Jeanne:

Sure.

Lori:

Okay, awesome. So one of the things, Josh, that I know that you guys talk about a lot is about the importance of morning sunshine. I. So my question around this is I am not able to get up and go outside right at immediate sunrise, but is it okay at like any point of the morning? Is it just as beneficial or is that really a specific window that we need to be more cognizant of?

Josh & Jeanne:

Well, I think the first thing is to make sure you download the app that tells you when Sunrise is, depending on where you live in the season.

Lori:

Oh, there's an app for that. I did not

Josh & Jeanne:

There's, it's an for everything's an

Lori:

is an app for everything. It's kinda like you, it's kinda like, where did you buy that at Amazon? You're like, of course you did.

Josh & Jeanne:

Exactly right. So there's two one's called, circadian life, circadian life. The other one's called, my circadian app For the second one, if you enter code real fg, you can get a free trial period. They both do the same thing just a little bit differently. One of our friends created the second one. I say that because people think that it's sunrise because it's light out. Sometimes the, the sun still hasn't risen yet, right? Like for instance, now that the sun's coming up a little earlier, we live in Boise, I think it's like 7 35 or something like that, like around seven 20. It's starting to get light out, but the sun truly hasn't like risen. And it's where it is in the sky and it's intensity in what light spectrum it's giving off. It's giving off red infrared at sunrise. And I say that'cause a lot of people don't know or they say, well, I go in the morning, but they're going out mid-morning, and that could be UVA, and it's not sunrise, it's just getting a little technical, but it just tells you, okay, this is when Sunrise is based on where I'm at and based on the season. And it does change, right? Like in the summer, six o'clock here. But in the winter, in the middle of the winter, it could be eight 30. Right. So sunrise is when the sun is like about what, zero to 10 or 10 degrees in the sky. And, it's giving off a red infrared. So basically it's red light, red light therapy. So you don't have to spend a thousand dollars on a red light. All you have to do is go outside. I just saved everyone a thousand dollars just like that and put all those companies out of business. I'm not saying there's, there's, there's no time and a place, but I think when it comes to health. Of us are searching for the golden ticket or whatever you wanna call it, when it's right in front of us all the time, you know, because. That is red infrared light. That's what sunrise is. So to answer your question, without going into more detail, does it matter? Yes. But you're splitting hairs. I think what really matters is you just get outside. We don't do it enough. As humans, we don't do it enough first thing in the morning. We get way too much blue light, which drives our system, our nervous system. And you know, when it comes to healing or doing something new. It's just about doing it in a way that allows it to be not so mechanical and allows it to be fun. Who cares if you, if the sun rises at 7 35 and you get out at seven 30, or you know, eight o'clock, if the sun is still, if it's there, just go, like, start creating a rhythm and making it a part of your life and your routine and start creating a healthy habit before you start getting a little bit nitpicky about, am I going out at the rise or am I going out like mid sun, you know? For instance, like 30 minutes into it. 30 minutes into it, right. Is it a big difference? No. Is there a difference? Yes. But in the scheme of just people getting outside, we don't get outside. People wake up, hop in their phone, they turn on the lights, there's light on your coffee machine, your oven, your fridge. You name it and you see influencers, saying, oh, you should get up at four o'clock or three o'clock because no one's doing it and get your day going. You should be excited for your day as they're like in the kitchen with the lights on with their phone recording it. You're literally messing up your biology because whether you're human or a plant or a snake. Everyone's biology is regulated by the light dark cycle. That's a known fact. It's not esoteric. So when you do things like that, it can really mess up in a cortisol rhythm, your gut clock. We can talk about all that stuff, but this is why, well, it shuts down the systems that are actually working right then and there. Right. We tell them to stop working and now they have to go do another job. So now we're interrupting. Again, that biological clock that's at work and all those different organs that it's being communicated to, we have your daytime processes and your nighttime processes, and anything that interrupts that is essentially telling the body, Hey, these, these important processes that need to be happening right now, we're gonna stop them and we're gonna go and we're gonna do something else. So it completely shifts, like Josh was saying, just throws that entire clock off, off rail, right? It's, and I truly believe this is why we're seeing such. The younger generation suffering with autoimmune issues and gut issues. When, think about it, when you were in college or younger, it was like, I'm gonna work out, eat protein powder party and study. Like we weren't researching SIBO and autoimmune issues, but I'm talking to 24 year olds that have, three or four autoimmune issues and they can't really live. And I truly believe it's because. Our culture's moving a million miles an hour, and children are just plopped into that, right? Their nervous systems are not being nourished and regulated by a home environment. I understand why, but kids are going into daycare and at sometimes six months old, sometimes, right? Kids are being exposed to blue light more than ever. It's literally our environment. That can have a huge effect on, well, it does have a huge effect on your biology, your nervous system, your immune system, your thyroid, your hormones, I mean, everything. Yeah.

Lori:

It's so fascinating and the screen time is, I think we're very firm with it. We have contracts in our house of how much time is allowed. They know they need to be wearing their, their blockers, but then there's also this time at school that they're on, my girls are in middle school and so it's, everything is on a fricking iPad. And so it's like even with the, the, the rules and regs that I have within my house, I still feel like I'm losing the battle because of what. If they have to be faced with, in school and,

Josh & Jeanne:

think that that, I think you're bringing up a really good point because I think in the conversation around light, it's like we can't ever do blue light at all. Right? But that's not the case.'cause that's not the culture that we're, we're raising children in or the culture that we're living in. But I think the balance. Needs to be heavier on the side of that light exposure. We need to be getting out more frequently. Right. We need to be more intentional about getting that exposure. Yeah. As opposed to being in indoors more often. Right. Even during the winter time, we just try to be outside as much as possible versus fearing the cold or whatnot. We just get bundled up and we do it differently, but I think that that's. Because I hear you. I think that a lot of people worry about that, but I think it really does come down to the balance between the two. Yeah. I mean, if you're, if you're getting outside a lot, but you're still getting exposed to blue light, or the way people go about is I wear blue blockers and I protect myself, but they're still not getting outside. It doesn't matter. Right. Because it's what, what light are all wavelengths of sunlight and, and color spectrum do. To your biology. It's what it does because it's a primary, primary giver to your cells to allow your cells to produce energy, inclusion, water, and light, right? Same thing that like food and movement and sound and water do. But light is like the primary thing that does it without it, you cannot produce energy. And we are exposed, but it's just about creating a better environment. It's like people focus on the nutrition. Well, you need to focus on your light environment, and it's, it's a toss up because it's just, it's everywhere, but, it is definitely a tough one with kids. I mean, you follow people like Abor Mate and that Dr. Hill we talked about. And you know, there's many, and they say that kids shouldn't be exposed. To phones or even social media until they're in high school. Mm-hmm. Why? Because their brains literally are not fully developed until they're like 22 to 26 year olds, year old, and, and they don't have the functioning and reasoning and all these different things. And, Gabor talks about how being on these devices can really change, the development of the brain and, and inhibit it, so. Mm-hmm. We're not gonna sit here and, and shame anyone for doing it.'cause we understand why people do it. We understand that people do do it. But again, it's our goal is helping people find the balance with everything they're doing. Mm-hmm. Right. Like with Harrison, it's, we know that tv, he can't disconnect from it, so when it's off, he either is a zombie or he gets really just wound up and it's hard to get him to anchor. So he doesn't get TV during the week. He gets movie night on Friday night. And it's helped him sleep better during the week. It's helped him regulate better. So again, it's how do you still do it?'cause we don't live in caves, but how do we find the balance so we can still live and have fun and not be so neurotic about it? Mm-hmm. And I think it's also important, just to go back to your initial question, is that. One minute with consistency, you know what I mean? Or three minutes. It's not about doing these long exposures initially as you're building up the, just doing the habit of it. It's just getting out and doing it with consistency. So without that pressure of, oh gosh, you know, I've gotta sit here for 3, 5, 10 minutes. Yeah. Because we are moving, we are doing, we're taking care of children, we're moving on with our day. You know what I mean? So it's important and there's so many ways to get that exposure without having to. Just be sitting in your backyard or with, you know what I mean? You can have your windows open, you can be driving with your windows open while you're, while you're transporting children where you need to go. You know, there's just so many ways to do it that can be very natural and fluid in your day. But, this is what we teach on our nourish nervous system program. It's, I wanna say it's not about sunlight'cause it is, but really what you're doing when you start working with sunlight more. Is you're starting to create new, healthy habits and behaviors to resource yourself, to reorient yourself, to fill your tank, to get off the rollercoaster, take a break, take a breath. So you're actually creating this new, new routine, and you're creating new experiences. And when it comes to our biology, it's our experiences shape our biology. So if you want to reshape them, you have to change your experiences, and that's what you're doing. We're not saying. Sell your kids and quit your job. We're saying this is your life, but how can you do a little bit differently to, like Jeannie said, create more balance in those scales, to have a better influence in your biology? Because your environment and your habits and behaviors dictate what your biology's doing. It takes inputs to create outputs. You create natural inputs, you get natural outputs, which is living in a way that support the body to create health. It'll do that. That's what it's designed to do. But when we don't, because maybe we're fasting and we're working out at night or in the morning, or we're never taking time to plug in, or we don't get outside, or we spend time on our phone at night, in bed and so forth. Those aren't natural inputs. You're not gonna get natural outputs. You're gonna get the gut issues, the immune system issues, the hormone issues, the sleep issues, and the list goes on. So it's a report card. It's not. Oh, gut's. My gut's the problem. I gotta heal the gut. We're blaming the gut. No. Who controls the gut? You so it's about creating these new habits and shifts, and that's really what health is about. And to help push you in the right direction.'cause you can't just take supplements and you can't just add modalities and protocols.'cause guess what? Nothing's changing. Your environment hasn't changed, the inputs haven't changed. All you're doing is wasting a lot of energy on chasing your outputs, which you can't influence an output without changing the input.

Lori:

I love that. I love that. Well, and even what you said too, Jeannie, it's just that reminder of. Again, creating the balance, because well, one, I'm so crazy into health that I'm like, I have to also be careful with it because I could tip my scale the opposite way, I I love that angle of just, making sure you're even just getting outside more and not even worrying about time right now, how long you're out there, or the time of day, just making sure that you are getting,

Josh & Jeanne:

Spending more time then. Yeah. I think that's important because so many people don't, and they think about, I can't get out sunrise. Well just get outside. I don't care when some people, I just say, whenever you can get outside, get outside for a minute, that's that's all you really want to start with. Mm-hmm. I don't even care if the sun is up, just get outside because it does. Again, you're getting off the rollercoaster, you're taking a breath, you're resourcing, you're re, you're doing so many things. It's not just about getting outside, but getting that ball rolling for people can be really hard.

Lori:

Well, and I was just reading, I think it was just a post you did yesterday of the gentleman that you have helped who, and you have him just lighting candles in the morning, so like, not even turning on lights in the house, which I find Yeah. So fascinating.

Josh & Jeanne:

Started doing that in the mornings and, and we wear blue blockers and the summer's easier, but in the winter it's harder, of course, but I. We found with Harrison, it really kind of the mood in the kitchen, not every day, but is much more regulated in it. And it definitely sets a, a different tone for the day. And I think that's the difference. It's the tone, right? It's like, how do you wanna come into your day? Do you want it to be loud and shocking or do you want it to be gentle and. And calm, right? I'm even playing frequencies some day, some mornings with the candlelight. Just to create a space where we can all just kind of whoosh, just anchor a little bit more, right? Instead of be so heightened.'cause that can be a tough time for a lot of people in the morning time when, when everyone's ramping up to get going and we're still kind of trying to wake up, you know? I mean, think about when you wake up, if you turn the lights on, what's your initial reaction?

Lori:

Oh,

Josh & Jeanne:

oh, right. It's because the amount of Kelvin's and blue light is so strong and it's found nowhere in nature by itself. Yes, there's blue light in nature, like you get blue and green, green light at UVA and so forth, but it's never by itself. And not in nature. Like in our environment. It's so intense and it literally interacts with receptors in your eyes, in your skin. Melanopsin, opsin receptors. Communicate through the retinal hypothalamic track. Through the SEN to the hypothalamus. So that instance is saying go sympathetic or go parasympathetic, and you have control of that from the second you wake up. So yeah, you can do all the breath work you want, but if you wake up and flip on those lights and go on your phone, guess what? All you're doing with breath work is trying to force and manipulate your nervous system to calm down. And just'cause you got it to calm down doesn't mean it's regulating why you're chasing the output. The input is changing your morning routine. Right. So those candles have a Calvin of like six. Anything less than 10 won't affect cortisol. Right. Same thing at night.'cause we need melatonin to come out and play. You need about three hours of darkness. That doesn't mean live in darkness, but maybe you wear blue blockers, orange, blue blockers. When you watch TV with the lights off. Maybe you have a red light in your bedroom. But it's always making sure, and this is where it gets tricky'cause people like red light. I use red light at night and that's great. The problem is. You can check with that. My, my circadian app.'cause it has a Kelvin meter. If you check your red light, some of'em are a thousand to 2000 kelvin. That can, even though it's red light that can actually work against you. And we're definitely being nitpicky, but I'm just giving you an example why like, candles in the morning can be beneficial. We changed all our light bulbs in the bathroom to incandescent in the kitchen to incandescent. It's less than a regular LED. But it's still like 1200 I think, or maybe 600. What it has is the full spectrum. Yeah. It doesn't change the spectrum, which is what the light in the sky will do. The sun in the sky will do, but it, yeah, it's better. It's better. But candles in the morning or not turning your lights on in the summer like we do,'cause the windows, you don't need them. Um, it's just making small changes to support your system.

Lori:

Yeah.

Dorothy:

when do you recommend turning your phone off at night? I mean, obviously the sooner the better, but if someone will be on their phone, like when should they stop using their phone at night?

Josh & Jeanne:

Same thing. Some people do, some people don't. Some people watch tv. It's just we recommend once sunsets, you should wear orange blue blockers. We have a few companies we like, and that's a problem like with anything, because you can buy blue blockers on Amazon. They probably block 20% of the blue light, but they don't block all of it. Mm-hmm. And that's the difference with a lot of the blue blockers. So we like,

Lori:

Yeah. Which ones do you like?

Josh & Jeanne:

we like Midwest red light therapy,'cause they're inexpensive, but they actually block blue light. You can use code, east west healing for 10% off. Viva Rays is our other favorite. I have a pair of genius, a pair, I have a pair of three in ones. So they can magnetize on. So you don't have three pairs of glasses or two pairs of glasses. They're expensive. But if you use, I think it's get outside 15, you can get 15% off, but they're really great. A nice glasses, glue, lockers, you'll never buy another pair. Yeah. So yeah, like we watch TV at night and we'll just, we wear our blue blockers the second we see sunset. And for people with sleep issues, believe it or not, it's interesting in the nourish nervous system program. Lesson one is shift your perspective. Well, it's kind of like a pre-lesson, and the first lesson is about circadian biology and creating new habits in light. We see more results with people in the first two to four weeks of our program than. Anything else, like from my insomnia is gone, like huge transformation. My luteal phase, I'm having no pain to I'm not constipated anymore. You name it. Like amazing stuff because they're not only protecting, but they're starting to get outside and anchor and resource and as a culture, we're so just strangling nutrition. Like it's, it's the, the golden ticket to healing. And it's not, it's really not. I'm not saying go eat Taco Bell, but, we're putting too much, we're putting too much emphasis on that one piece and light when you understand it biologically and what it does. I mean, we've had people with insomnia within two to four to six weeks. They've had it for decades sleeping like a baby.

Lori:

And probably on medications and everything, right to try to sleep.

Josh & Jeanne:

Yep.

Lori:

Wow, that's so fascinating. Well, and what's popping in my head right now is when I think about, even back when I was a kid, I mean, we didn't have iPads or anything. I'd wake up and my parents would be up before me, and of course the lights would be on the kitchen and the little TV about on top of the refrigerator would be on with the, the news and the weather or the The Today Show or whatever it was. And then you went off, you did school, you come home and we'd watch our, TV

Josh & Jeanne:

But the load was different, right? It was different because everything wasn't LED and we didn't have, I mean, when we were growing up, I didn't even have a computer until I was like, in, I think middle school, it was like an Apple two E or whatever, you know? But we didn't have phones, we didn't have wifi and, and LED lights on our coffee makers, our oven, our toothbrushes. It's, I mean, it's all over the

Lori:

All over the

Josh & Jeanne:

So it was,

Lori:

Yeah. And to your point, Josh, like, and this is why you're seeing an uptick in the

Josh & Jeanne:

oh, even in your car. I mean, think about it, it's everywhere. And it's, that's the reasoning is because back in the day we didn't have that. The light bulbs were much different too. Right. Um, but we didn't have that load. We didn't have all that blue light.

Lori:

Wow.

Josh & Jeanne:

We played outside all the time.

Lori:

All the time. Mm-hmm. All the time. So fascinating. Well, and I just always love hearing and reading about the success stories, and with these simple changes and like your, to your point, like you just said, I mean, two to four weeks and. 10 years plus of insomnia is gone.

Josh & Jeanne:

Yeah. We have someone in our program now, she's had insomnia for decades. I mean, think about, I don't even care. Well, I do care, but it's like if you have a million other symptoms. If you don't sleep well, nothing's gonna happen, right? I mean, sleeping is, yeah. It's like once you start sleeping, a lot of things will follow back in line. And she's had sleep issues for decades and she's, she's been working at this and she hasn't really even touched nutrition, right? Mm-hmm. She's been working on her habits, her light environment, protecting her salsa blue light. It was on our last call, which is about, what, five weeks, six weeks in, and she's like, I, the past week have been sleeping through the night solid for the first time in decades.

Lori:

a game changer.

Dorothy:

Wow.

Josh & Jeanne:

no magnesium, no three and eight, nothing. Yeah. It took her a minute just on our shift in perspective of really trying to just let go. Right? It's hard, and I think that she finally just hit this place and she, she shared this beautiful share on the community about I. That exactly. It's just like I've identifying all these parts and pieces of herself and then just really letting go and working on these very, very, very simple things. And then she shared that with us. I was like, oh, it's so beautiful. But yeah, it's really a neat thing to watch.

Lori:

It is. I love that. Well, and, a little shift here. So again, time of day of workout. I know you've talked about that on your Instagram and this was a hard one for me because if I don't get my stuff done in the morning.

Josh & Jeanne:

Your lunges for your pelvic floor. I see you doing that stuff.

Lori:

You like that pelvic floor health baby? It's important, especially now that I'm in, perimenopause and, soon to be 51. It does matter. But walk me through this a bit, Josh,'cause I know you talk about, midday is more of the optimal time. So if you can explain to us a bit why that is the case, and then what do you do with people like me, because I'm homeschooling now, like I have just this certain window. We're always busy, right? My habit, I mean, I used to honestly exercise after work, but then since having kids that shifted to early mornings and now I'm just kind of in this routine that I get it done in the morning, otherwise it doesn't get done. So walk me through this a bit like one, explain to us why it's ideal in an ideal situation, perfect world, what is that ideal time to work out and why? And then what do you do with people like me? Because let me tell you, if I don't exercise, I'm a raging bitch. I need that movement. I need the movement. I need to lift heavy. I don't do tons of cardio anymore'cause that just makes me feel worse. So like, I need my walk and I need some nice, strong, heavy, lifting with, like low intensity, but my heavy lifting. And I am, I'm a much better, nicer person.

Josh & Jeanne:

So we can talk about like the balance of that, but I think it's just. We always go back to understanding biology and, and physiology.'cause then it can make a lot more sense. And then it's about that person finding the personalization in that. Like what's my step one and what's my step two in regards to that. So you're not just pulling the rug out from under yourself because then you become a raging bitch and healing or life we call it. We don't, I, I, we don't like the word healing anymore. It's just associated with like fixing and nudging and protocols. We, we truly feel it's like it's just about living. It's like if we're not living, then we're not healing, right? So I think working out is a piece of that. Just find the balance of is it working for me and listening to your body on that day, and not just living in this linear way. Like, I'm tired, I'm supposed to work out, let me work out. But we'll go into that. But like biologically, when you understand like your biology falls, the sun, it's that simple. It's a bell curve, right? Sun's the highest as midday. It's a more intense in the summer, of course, but it's highest midday, and then your systems are slowly downgrading to dock, so your nighttime systems can come on repair, thyroid, gut lining repairs every two to five days. That's all driven by melatonin, leptin, and so forth. But if we don't live in a way to support the nighttime programs, we never repair, even though we're sleeping right. It doesn't matter you're sleeping. If you're not repairing, then you're gonna wake up exhausted, start having all the issues people are having. But when we wake up and we see the sun, we get that dimming of cortisol up systems are starting to turn on. It's like you turn on your computer back in the day when you dial up an A OL and it would take like five minutes. It would make all that noise. That's like sunrise. It's like it's system is booting slowly, like a dimmer of light on your wall, like you slowly rise it. Right? That's important'cause it kind of gets the system ready for the day. But at that time of the day, we actually have to live in a way to support that. If you live in a way to support the body to create health, it will. So if you think about that time of day, cortisol is dimming up. What happens at sunset? All these systems are dimming down, including cortisol, and we're just, we should say pituitary, but it's, we're just kind of simplifying it. So melatonin can kick in because you've lived in a way to support melatonin to kick in, which supports autophagy. So when we work out in the morning or at night, are we living in a way to support our biology or not? We're not, because A, our systems aren't woken up yet, right? And B, you're gonna spike cortisol, which will spike insulin, and it's gonna inhibit leptin. It's gonna inhibit melatonin. So in a very simple explanation, this is why we don't recommend working out in the morning or working out at night.

Lori:

Mm.

Josh & Jeanne:

Let's say before 10 o'clock, or depends on the time of year, of course, but let's say before nine, 10 o'clock in the summer and after four o'clock, three o'clock in the winter or a little bit later in the summer. But again, it's all assessing and and tuning in because our system is not on, it's not anabolic. To to handle that. And then the workout we're doing to build and grow is actually working against us, right? And then you start taking in the seasons, which gets even more, nitty gritty. But we shouldn't be working out the same in the winter as we do in the summer. Summer is days are longer. They're lighter, their sun's more intense. We're producing what's called more A MPK because of that. We produce more insulin. We're way more anabolic. We can handle more carbs. This isn't a homeostatic place. Right. I'm not talking about someone with PCOS, let's say, because we would still approach them differently. Mm-hmm. But in the winter, because the days are shorter, there's more darkness. You produce less A, in PK, you produce more mTOR, which causes you to produce more melatonin, which is about repair, regeneration, autophagy and hibernation. So we need to live in a way and eat, and breathe and move in a way to support summer and support winter. But everyone lives in perpetual summer. Not only with their environment, with the heat and blankets and clothes never exposing themselves to cold, right? But also with how they eat. We should eat differently. And how you move. We shouldn't be doing crazy HIIT workouts in the winter. Those are for the summer. You can still move in the winter, but it's not about that'cause winter's about melatonin. Summer's about vitamin D. Winter's not about vitamin D. Everyone focuses on it. They need to shift their focus.'cause if you live in away from April to October to support, let's just say vitamin D, you don't have to worry about it during the winter, you've stocked up enough and it's not just about going outside at UVB. So we're just not living in a way to support our biology. That's why we say don't work out in the morning a fasted or like around sunrise time because your body is just coming online and think about it. This is like what we say is, would you do this with your child? Would you let them fast till 2:00 PM in the afternoon? Would you let them wake up? And go on the computer. Would you let them wake up and work out one hour later, and do something, heavy and crazy. Now we're not saying walking is bad and movement is bad. It's about finding the right type of movement that meets your needs based on the time of day. So the best time of day based on our biology is like, and of course this depends on where you live in the season, but like 10 to three metabolically. You know, closer to noon, we're way more metabolic. That's the best time of the day. But of course, people work, but people are coming to us with Hashimoto's and immune system issues and PCOS and leptin resistant and sibo, and they're like, but I love my workouts. Well, that's great. Guess what? They're working against you. You know, the proof's in the pudding. It's an input, and I think that's important to, to address as well, as far as the level of metabolic flexibility somebody has, right? Like you, Laurie, might have a little bit more metabolic flexibility than the average person, right? But being in this phase of life that you're in, that's also going to create, a decrease in the functioning of. Your ovaries and an increase in the need for your adrenals to kick on a little bit more, right? So this puts you in a very different state because we don't wanna influence that cortisol time where it's trying to come up slowly and we're telling the body, no, we're gonna kick this up a, a whole nother notch, right? Because like Josh says, that's gonna shut down, that left in that melatonin signaling, which is gonna interrupt your body being able to sense or. Define that energy, the the energy available in your body, and then again, that repair regeneration. So it really is not about not doing, it's just again, strategizing. Yeah. Against when, when is the right time to do it. And if that is the only time of day you have, what does that look like? How does that need to be modified so that you're not working against yourself? The hard part is. People don't know if it's working against them. Right. Like who works out and says, I hate working out. Well there are people like my mother, but like you're saying, I need it. Right. You know, like you need it, and it's hard for you to see if it's working against you. And you might not feel it right now'cause you don't wanna, but at some point you might feel it. So if you were a client, we never tell anyone to do anything. We build a base first and a lot of the times they'll organically change it. If we were to recommend, I would probably work on other stuff first, but we would say, okay, go for your walks in the morning, support your body and it's important for you to do that because it's gonna do this, this, and this. Can we move in the workout at a different time of the day, like midday? Are you able to get that in? It's winter. Are you able to get that in two times a week or three times a week? If it's two times a week, great. Maybe on another day we could do a different type of workout that you could do at home versus having to leave the house in the summer. You could probably do it three to four times a week. Mm-hmm. You could probably do it a little earlier than noon, you know? But how do we adapt? That's what you have to do. And some people aren't willing to do that, and that's fine. Like my goal is just to make recommendations. But when people are struggling, I. Sometimes just going for walks after breakfast, lunch, and dinner three times a day, whether it's five minutes or 30 minutes. Nice stroll outside. Again, it encompasses all those things we talked about in the beginning and it can, it can do a lot for people with regards to even just weight loss and regulating leptin. You don't wait lose weight'cause you're working out. It's literally comes down to that cortisol, leptin relationship. So sometimes we say to people like, you're committing to this. You're committing to yourself maybe for the next three months. Because you only can work out in the morning. Maybe you just don't work out at all. And we just focus on walking. Or like I have a client who's just flat out, I mean, she's black and white, brutally honest. She's like, I am addicted to training. I have forever. I work off for two hours every day. Don't tell me not to workout because I'm gonna tell you to fuck off. I'm like, I would never tell you not to work out. And I know, I knew before even talking to her, I wasn't gonna talk about it. And she always, always asks me questions about her workout and I'm like, we're not gonna talk about it. But if I was to te say something, this is what I would say. And she's, I haven't really even talked about a workout. We're talking about her routine and her morning routine and some nutrition. She's already organically changing. She's like, I did 30 minutes of cardio today instead of an hour. Like she's already changing it because. I'm not telling her to, I'm just having her make these other changes. She's starting to feel different, trust her body again, and trust the process. So she's organically making the changes on her own. Right. And that's what we do with a lot of people.'cause it's more empowering, you know? We live in a culture that people work out fast. They go to work on coffee, they go to work, stressed out, giving their self away, do they eat lunch? Maybe they go to lunch, they come home. Life is crazy. They watch Netflix and go to bed. So in the scheme of, let's say, nourishing their nervous system, or even just like taking their phone and plugging it in, which if we don't plug in our phone, we can't use it. At what point during the day do you think that person is plugging their phone in? At night. That's about it. If it's even happening at night, metaphorically, because they're so wound up all day. And think about if you was to use your phone all day long, it's not gonna last till nighttime. So now you're creating debt. And this is why people are struggling.'cause they're not, they don't know how to change or they're not willing to change, or they're just focusing on all the wrong things. They're focusing on supplements, blaming parasites, blaming foods, and so forth. But you know, as we shared, it's, it's health is taking responsibility for yourself and it's kind of hard to hear, but a lot of things are happening in your body. You've created, not consciously, but you've created,

Lori:

Everything that you described right now totally makes sense. My one question is, so if I wake up at five 30. And somebody wakes up at eight, we're still on the same cortisol cycle, so like if I'm waking up at 5:30 AM I able to hit the gym sooner than the person waking up at eight?

Josh & Jeanne:

Your biology is not directed. In a healthy way by you. I mean it is, but it's more directed and unhealthy way. So if you get up at five 30 and you think because you're getting up, you're resetting your circadian biology, you're not, oh no. Yeah. You're creating more dysfunction. Yeah. Because again, working against it, you're working against it because the sun hasn't risen yet. Mm-hmm. The sun light and dark drive everything. Mm-hmm. Just like why some animals hibernate in the winter, why? What I explained, you know? So you work out at home, Laurie?

Lori:

I don't, I mean, I could, but I don't because I need that mental shift of I leave the house, it gives me a mental break, and then, yeah.

Josh & Jeanne:

just going into fluorescent lighting

Lori:

Well, yeah, I mean, typically, so I wake up around five 30, quarter to six, and then I come down here into my office and I do, I'm doing a brain program right now. So I do my crawling and then I will do my journaling or like, it's, it's an easy start and then I go into my kitchen and then start lunches for school and then leave the house. And usually if I'm at the gym, I'm at the gym by. Anywhere between like eight 30 and nine in the morning.

Josh & Jeanne:

Yeah, I mean, it's not horrible only because of what you've done and how you're coming into the day. It's not like you're working out at five 30, right, right. So it's a little bit different like that. Nine o'clock is close, but again, we don't have like protocols. So if I'm working with you. You're logging this on what we like look at and we see your patterns and you're healing, and you're losing weight, and you're sleeping and you feel good, and your pulse and temper regulating, then essentially the pattern's working for you. Mm-hmm. But if we start to see things get worse or I'm not sleeping, which is a common one, or whatever it may be, then we start looking at your patterns and saying. This could actually be working against you. Can we do a little experiment? Mm-hmm. Can we move it later or cut it out, or just go for a walk the next two weeks and see what happens? Mm-hmm.

Lori:

Yeah.

Josh & Jeanne:

But that's not too early. Yeah. And I think it's how much are you stabilizing the system from five 30 Right to that workout time she's crawling. Right. So I think that that makes a huge difference. I'm sure nourishment is in there somewhere. You're nourishing your body. Yes.

Lori:

yes. So what you were just saying of how, like looking at people's patterns, taking pulse and temperature, can you elaborate on that a bit? Because, I don't see you talking a lot about that on your Instagram. So if you can even give us a bit more detail of what are you doing exactly with your, with your program to help people live better.

Josh & Jeanne:

Well, I think, like we said, we're, we're looking at patterns of regulation or dysregulation, so we really don't use a lot of body temperature and pulse anymore, only because we're working with people feeling and getting in touch with their bodies. Again. I mean, we do use it still. It is more of kind of a baseline, but for the most part it is really about. How am I feeling in this moment? Right? How long are we seeing time between meals? Where are we seeing somebody derail? Whether they're having a lot of hunger, they're not able to, they we're seeing repetitive eating, like an hour, every hour on the hour after a certain period of time, right? So we'll look at the first half of the day and we'll be able to identify patterns there so that we can interrupt that, because what we're really seeing there is somebody just chasing their body, trying to regulate themselves. So we see where that, where it became dismantled essentially. But we're looking at the balance between where is the energy coming in and where is the energy going out, and what does that mean to that individual based on where they are in their healing process, so that we can begin to target those specific areas and then know what to change, where do we need to put our attention, and start to create a little bit of shift so we can dampen that effect that it's having on the system.

Lori:

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Josh & Jeanne:

you start to really identify it. And it's also with a lot of people. When they're feeling something, they believe that it's because of what they've just done in that moment. But we can look back'cause we have people tracking two to three consecutive days. So we can look back and see what the previous date was like.'cause oftentimes it's, it is typically what you're feeling in that moment is from what has happened in the prior 24 hours. Yeah. Nothing to do with what's, and so we get to take, we get to move away from food constantly being the thing that's affecting us in that moment and more into the habits and behaviors that have been. The system into that dysregulation. And that's the key. Everyone's coming at you with protocols, I'm gonna treat your gut, I'm gonna treat your hormones, I'm gonna treat your nervous system. I'm gonna treat name it. But they're chasing the output. Mm-hmm. So we look at people's habits, we don't chase that. Sure. You have a gut issue. That's great. Right. We honor these things and we know how to like nudge things in a way based on our circadian biology and how the gut works and things that we can do, but. It's your habits that are creating it. So we say, let's stop chasing. You've done that. It hasn't worked. Let's start looking at your routine, your habits, your behaviors, your nutrition, your fueling, when your feeding window, all these different things and see what is working so we can fine tune and what isn't. So we can find that tune to that. More into that does step-by-step. So we're really in a sense, personalizing every person's step. Along the way to have a better influence on their system versus just saying, all you have to do is this protocol. You don't have to change. Right? It's not gonna work. Right. Just like, yes, people think, oh, you need a four hour gut healing program and you need hydrochloric acid and all that. Not one person does. Not one person does.'cause remember the GI system, number one, is a pH driven system, which is driven by the nervous system, which starts in the brain, which is literally, we could say it starts in the eyes and it's driven by light. You know, gut motility is driven by light. It's driven by the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin that regulates gut motility, which is the breakdown, absorption, and elimination of food. Because that is driven by UV light and the list goes on, the gut repair lining repairs every two to five days, and it repairs at night. If we live in a way to support that and the list goes on. So when you have, let's say, low hydrochloric acid, which it's lower, um. It's never higher. Um, and you have GERD or SIBO or whatever it may be. All you're doing is putting hydrochloric acid in a system that's low, but you're not fixing how the system is working. So just taking that is not going to do fix anything, right? You're sphincter is still not opening and closing properly. You're still not breaking down food properly because. The nervous system drives the pH in your mouth and salivary amylase and lactoferrin, which drives the food through the esophagus, the sphincter opening pH of the stomach that closes this, sphincter and the list goes on. It's a domino effect. So just taking hydrochloric acid does nothing. When we start looking at people's habits, what do we do? We create shifts. We cr create different inputs. Which slowly gets systems, let's say the gut back online, so it can do what it's designed to do. Mm-hmm. Right. Which is basically gut motility breakdown, absorb and eliminate food. Mm-hmm.

Lori:

And that's also a piece, right you mentioned, a little while ago with the whole workout thing too, of having the coffee too early in the morning.'Cause so many people like that's their habit, right? Flip on the lights in the kitchen, go get a cup of coffee. And so again, you're just pushing that cortisol system, right?

Josh & Jeanne:

I, I think it's, again, person dependent. I'm not gonna sit here and advocate drinking coffee on an empty stomach in the morning, but there's some people can a bit more regulated, handle it depending on their light environment and when and what they're eating for sure. But what we do with the workout piece, let's say you're working on in the morning, you're having your coffee, is we have people take their temperature and pulse. We teach this and a few other things in our nervous system program, but you take your temper and pulse. 30 to 45 minute work after working out if your pulse is high. That tells us the workout didn't work. We have to change the frequency, the intensity, the rep sets, it's just not working for you. It's pushing you hyper adrenaline. Mm-hmm. And if your temp is low and your pulse is normal, it tells us nutritionally or your fueling window or things are happening. Everything happening before that workout didn't support you to withstand the stress of the workout. Right. So again, it's personalized. It's not just like, oh, it felt good. Of course it feels good for a lot of people, but people don't realize that a lot of the other things they're doing is not supporting the workout to get their body like, yes, we should go sympathetic. It's nothing wrong with the sympathetic nervous system, but we should be able to autoregulate and get back. Two here. Right? Anchor. And a lot of people think recovery is just stretching. That's not recovery. That's one way of recovery. But are we taking the time after that workout to eat in a way and live in a way and, and, and anchor in a way, and resource in a way, and we're not,'cause we change and we go back to work. Or we go to work and have that coffee and eat a bagel or a protein shake. You're not recovering.

Lori:

right,

Josh & Jeanne:

Or even when the nutrition doesn't change at all on a workout day versus a on a workout day, for some people that can be a huge effect, right? Yeah. So we get to really tailor it depending on the person and what it is that they need.'cause it shifts and I think that, just speaking about the nervous system and, watching patterns of regulation, you get to really understand a person and their level of vulnerability watching those patterns, because again, our, our bodies are responding to the world around us and some people have very low resilience and you can kind of get a gauge of where somebody's level of resilience is just through that tracking pattern because. They're so vulnerable. They're so reactive. There's their bodies can't tolerate a lot. And that for a lot of people can be a very difficult pill to swallow because like, how am I so sensitive? Well, it just goes to show the effects that your life has had on your body, and that's something to be honored and respected. So we get to shift. Again, our approach and the grace that we get to have with ourselves in our healing process versus comparing ourselves up against somebody else who, you know, why do they get to do all of these things, right? And then we get to have a little more compassion for self and with regard to what we have experienced and how our bodies have experienced it. It gets us in relationship with that's hard. And then offers permission. It's hard. It's hard too,'cause we're asking people to change. Not many people do that, and we're asking people to just. Slow down a little bit and do things a little differently. And, and we're not saying take this or do this, and that's hard for people.'cause people have kids, they have jobs and um, they have some unhealthy habits that allowed them to survive up to this point. Right? Like my new client I started with today, her daily routine. So wonky. I mean, she's on SSRIs, she's on corticosteroids, she's on thyroid medication, which I truly don't believe she needs. She's taking, taking it at noon'cause she doesn't sleep, which is affecting her sleep. You see the pattern. The second she starts taking her medication, her pulse goes through the roof'cause she's taking way too much T three, and I'm like, this is the pattern I'm seeing and this is why you're not sleeping. So it's a hard place to shift from, because she's attached that she needs the medication.'cause the doctor convinced her of that, but the medication's affecting her sleep and that's why she's not sleeping. You know? So it's like how do we get her to shift in a way that's a little bit uncomfortable, but also comfortable? And how do we go slow and how do we personalize it? How do we allow her to feel safe? And you have to do these things slow because most people would say. Take a Trazodone, take some magnesium, take an Epso salt bath. That's not what we're gonna do because we wanna help people succeed and the only way they can heal and live and succeed is to change and we can't change for them. Right. Right.

Lori:

Yeah, it uh. You know, again, sitting with self, right? It's that moment that you have to sit with yourself and feel the uncomfortableness. But I mean, I'm just that individual where, when I don't feel well, I want to fix it. So I'm willing to make the changes. And I get that I'm not, you know, the norm. Um, but yeah, to your point, I do my morning routine or my workout because. That's my habit. I get it done. I check it off the list mentally, that feels good. Um, but you know, I, I know I need to like switch that up. So that's the whole piece of like, okay, what else? What's the domino effect that I have to now go back and rechange things or get things done more by a certain time? Right? I just have to go back and look, come at a different angle since I'm homeschooling and all the, all these other responsibilities that I have. And at first you kind of do the whole like, oh. You could feel that tension in your body like, oh my God, but that means this, this, this, this, and this. But you know, again, the minute you like move through that, those like 90 seconds of uncomfortableness and you create space. Like you said, Jeannie, it's, it's really not as, as scary as, as you think. It's interesting that becomes a nervous system's immediate reaction. Right. That grip and hold, which already right there is your clue

Josh & Jeanne:

Yeah,

Lori:

Not good. Not

Josh & Jeanne:

I think we have to, you have to go slow. It's like it's, first let's observe. Let's just kind of pay attention to how this flow is going and where we might be able to do this and how things can shift. It's not like, oh, automatic. Yeah, let's turn things around right away. Right. It's, let me take a step back and zoom out quite a bit and like, how can we make this work? How can this begin to shift a little bit? Right? Maybe you do something else first. Maybe you say, you know what? I'm working out four days a week, maybe I'm gonna do it three days a week first. Mm-hmm. And walk in the mornings. That fourth day you make small changes. Yeah. Kind of find your sweet spot because what if you could do that? How many days a week do you do that?

Lori:

I am at the gym. Two to three.

Josh & Jeanne:

Oh, that's, so let's say you do it three days a week and you're like. In my hard heart, it's just not working, and you bump it down one day and you're like at two and it really starts working for you, then that's your sweet spot. You don't have to just stop everything. You really work with people to find their sweet spot. It's like with leptin resistance, most people would say, no carbs, you know, you gotta do this. We go slowly with people to find their sweet spot because. Maybe they're eating less carbs and doing all the things, but they're sleeping better, they're losing weight, and they feel energized. Great. Let's stay there a little bit. Don't have to, it doesn't have to be so black and white. Mm-hmm.

Lori:

Well, and I love that. Um, I, I love that we're having this conversation because it's given me a better understanding exactly like how you work with your clients and, that's the piece that you give, right? Like you're, you're the outsider looking in. So things a lot of times are a lot clearer than you being in the muddly mess. And so that's what I, I love about your, your program is to be able to have that outside view and see kind of more of the, the changes that need to be made

Josh & Jeanne:

Yeah.

Lori:

versus being the one so attached.

Josh & Jeanne:

Yeah, because without that awareness and helping people see that, because again, I think with that tracking, we're walking them through it. Like, this is what's happening. This is what you're seeing. So it's not about us dictating their process, it's just this is what's happening and now you have a choice. To shift that, but there's the awareness, right? And without that awareness, we can't have that change. Yeah. So that's really helping facilitate that shift for people mm-hmm. In a, in a way that isn't so threatening and like just don't, they don't know what the outcome's gonna be. Right. If I do this, it could get worse. We'll know we're showing you exactly how this could benefit you if you do choose to make a small change. So it's less threatening.

Lori:

Yes. And if anybody does wanna work with you guys, what's the process?

Josh & Jeanne:

If they're on Instagram and they click on the link in our bio or just DM us the word ready, um, there's an application you can fill out. And our, our, well, we have two ways. We have our nourish nervous system program, which is 90 days. It's a, it's like a group program.

Lori:

Mm-hmm.

Josh & Jeanne:

Lessons and PDFs and videos, and we have live calls in a community. Um, it's a wonderful place. People get amazing results. And then we have one-on-one coaching, um, which is obviously one-on-one. It's more personalized and so forth. Mm-hmm.

Lori:

And I'll put all that too in the show notes.

Josh & Jeanne:

Amazing.

Lori:

I can talk to you guys forever, but we're approaching that hour and I know we all have things to go off and, and get done. Um, Deedee, do you have any

Dorothy:

You know, I had, I had three questions that were already answered in this conversation, so I'm good. Although I think I'll be reaching out because I think I need your program.

Lori:

all need their program. We all need their program. Yes, we definitely do. Well, and, and again, like you said guys, it's that, um, you have to change the, the internal, right. And everybody's always chasing the external. Mm-hmm. I love that.

Josh & Jeanne:

Jeannie said, which literally some summarizes our approach, why? I think it does, of course there's more to it, but everyone's trying to change without awareness. That's exhausting. It's paralyzing. It's confusing, right? Because they're like, oh, I'm gonna do this. Oh, this supplement works.'cause she said it was good or had a great testimonial. Oh, I'm gonna buy this red light therapy. I'm gonna, you keep adding and trying and trying. You've never really taken the time to say, what are the pieces to my healing puzzle? So you're adding and doing a lot of things that you don't need, which wastes a lot of energy. You're never gonna heal. It's a rabbit hole. Awareness precedes change. So we're helping people. Create awareness, look at their patterns and see what they need and what their healing puzzle pieces are. So what does that do? It makes healing or living more efficient and more fun and more simple because you realize, oh, I don't need all these pieces. All I need are these three pieces to my healing puzzle. That's all I need. I was making it so complex and I'm just gonna focus on this one first. So it becomes much more simple.

Lori:

Yeah, sunlight is free. Nature is free, right?

Josh & Jeanne:

it can have the biggest impact on your system. Not overnight, you know, everyone's different. But over time, if you create consistency with getting outside at Sunrise and UVA and Sunset, or whenever you can really. You're gonna see that impact. We take it for such, granted, we do what? It's, you know, I mean, I'm a, I'm a southern California, Hawaii girl all the way. So you, I, I've never had to think about sun sunlight. It's just always naturally been there. Right. And then I moved to Idaho, it's like, holy shit, what just happened? Right. And I didn't buy into it right away. He is like wearing these glasses and, you know, doing all these things. And I'm like, yeah, whatever. Another thing, I can't go down there right now'cause I've got an 8-year-old who's losing his mind over here. Didn't want anything to do with it, but I'm also, I just turned 51. In perimenopause, menopause, call it what you want. It's a shift. And my sleep went to total shift because I'm just not used to this weather. I'm not used to the seasons, anything, anything around it. And I'm like, okay, whatever. Let's do this. Whatever. I'm gonna get the glasses. I'm gonna be outside more, even though I'm freezing. It's freezing here. Um, and I mean, it was probably, I, I feel in my memory I can, I should have probably, it was like a month. It wasn't even a month. It was like two, it was like two to three weeks. I was just totally sh I'm like, and I was listening to all the research and whatnot. It was like, I'm, this is, this makes, how have we not brought this piece in sooner than now? You know what I mean? Because we literally, we just assume that people are outside. No, that is not the case. People fear the cold. They fear the. You know, and you have to ask why we are not living in a way to support our biology.

Lori:

Well, and guess

Josh & Jeanne:

fear the sun wear more sunscreen than ever, and a, they wonder why they're vitamin D deficient, but then they wonder why so many people have skin cancer. The rates are higher than ever. The sun doesn't cause skin cancer. Just like spoons don't make you fat, right? It's all how we use it. So, um, I think we just have to shift our perspective a little bit and understand that nature is not stupid.

Lori:

Right,

Josh & Jeanne:

You know, and if you just give the body what it needs, nature will do the rest,

Lori:

Yeah, and if you do go outside for a walk, please don't be looking at your cell phone. I cannot tell you how many people I see doing that, and I'm like. No, put this thing, I know put this even in, like, even at the gym you just see it so much and I'm like, you're outside you have beautiful nature around you and you're staring down at a damn screen. It's just, yeah, we're, we are our own worst enemies. Right. I know. Well thank you guys as always. Love having these conversations. We can talk for hours as usual, but we are gonna send you off and, I'm sure we'll put something else on the books to keep this conversation going. So thank you again, Josh and Jeannie.

Dorothy:

Thank

Lori:

Yes. We'll see you guys soon.

Thanks everyone for tuning in and listening to our podcast with the Real Food Gangs. As a reminder, don't forget to download the My Circadian App, and if you put in real FG, you can get a free trial period. And if you are looking for those blue light blockers that Josh and Jeannie had mentioned, there's two places that you can go. You can visit Midwest Red Light Therapy and use the code East West healing for 10% off. Or the other option is visiting Veeva Rays and using the code get outside 15 for 15% off. All of this will be listed in the show notes and once again, thanks for listening. The information shared on this podcast is for informational purposes only and is based on the opinions and experience of Lori Dorothy and their guests. The content should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice. Diagnosis or a treatment. Always seek the advice of your healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you heard on this podcast