Why Simple Tasks Feel So Exhausting With ADHD (with Jenna Free)

You've tried the calendars, the timers, the hacks. They work for two weeks and then stop. Jenna Free says that's not a discipline problem. It's a regulation problem.

Jenna is a counselor for ADHD with ADHD, author of The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation, and has worked in-depth with over 1,000 people through her ADHD Regulation Method. Her position is direct: dysregulation is not a fixed trait of the ADHD brain. It is a learned response to a lifetime of friction. And it is the reason every other system eventually fails.

We cover her three-level regulation framework, why she skips meditation and breathing exercises entirely, how dysregulated beliefs quietly block delegation and visibility in your business, and what physical signs most ADHD business owners have normalized as just a Tuesday.

What We Cover

• Why regulation has to come before any other system or tool
• The three levels Jenna works on: nervous system, thoughts and beliefs, behavior
• Why negative self-talk and urgency feel like they work, and what they actually cost you
• How dysregulation shows up as delegation avoidance and RSD in business
• The first practical step to start noticing and interrupting dysregulation today

Connect With Jenna Free 
Book Title: THE SIMPLE GUIDE TO ADHD REGULATION: The Secret to Finding Balance, Getting Things Done, and Enjoying

Social Media Links & Show Notes:

• TikTok: @adhdwithjennafree ; www.tiktok.com/@adhdwithjennafree
• Instagram: @adhdwithjennafree ; www.instagram.com/adhdwithjennafree
• Podcast: ADHD with Jenna Free; https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/adhd-with-jenna-free/id1801356817
• Website: https://www.adhdwithjennafree.com/

Here is the link for the free PDF I mentioned www.adhdwithjennafree.com/adhdguide

If you’re an entrepreneur with ADHD who’s tired of being asked “Why don’t you just hire/make a system/delegate?”  We’ve gotchu! 

1. Click here for a free copy of my 5-year-tested Focus Filter. Instant relief for work-related overwhelm.
2. Find out what’s holding you back. I’ll personally build you a simple plan to fix it. Click here to grab one.
3. Join my Focused Balanced Growth Program. If you’re tired of getting blank looks in masterminds full of neurotypical advice, this is for you. Weekly Monday Motivation sessions, plus content you can binge or dip into for strategies specific to you. Apply here.
4. Your Business Operations Built for Your ADHD Brain. Feel like you can never really delegate because you can’t explain how to do it? Struggling to hire someone who feels like a natural fit for your business? Let us handle it for you. We specialize in using our years of ADHD research and practical support to act as your fractional COO, handling the back-end operations in a way that feels light and keeps you focused. Learn more here.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'd say you can't meet your potential in a dysregulated way. Being dysregulated is like running with a parachute on. When you regulate, you cut the parachute off.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hello everybody, and welcome back to the ADHD Skills Lab. Today we are joined by the wonderful Jenna Free. Jenna is a counselor for ADHD with ADHD. She specializes in working with ADHD brain to get out of that fight or flight mode and get us working our best while honoring neurodivergence and all of our uniqueness. She has a focus on making ADHD's lives more enjoyable while also being more productive. And she works with clients through her ADHD regulation groups and also her ADHD regulation uh method in her certification program. She recently bought out a book, The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation, which we're gonna go through. And she lives in Alberta with her husband and two sons. So very excited to have you here. Thanks for being here, Jenna.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Yeah. So tell me a little bit, you know, we always want to start with a sense of your own, your own ADHD story. And you mentioned feeling like the support you got when you found out you had ADHD was started to feel a little bit like band-aids for you. And I'd love to know, you know, describe some of those band-aids for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yeah, absolutely. So the sensation of it is I am drowning and I'm getting, you know, little floaties, but nothing's getting me out of the water. And that's really how it felt was it's just the energy I got was as long as you're not underwater, you're okay. And I I really was not happy with that level of functioning. So even as a therapist, I was teaching what I was taught, which to me is more of a band-aid approach, which sometimes we need band-aids. I'm not saying they're bad, but typically not enough. Like calendars, timers, strategies, tools, the hacks, tips. And as a therapist, of course, there's the emotional side and working with everything that comes up, but to actually cope, that's what I was taught to teach. So that is what I gave clients. And of course, they'd come back the next session not having done it, and or they would do it for a little bit and then it stops. And of course, to give homework to someone who's drowning is crazy making. So of course, we're not going to do it when we're already overwhelmed. Like our problem is overwhelm, not being able to take action, feeling, like I said, like I'm just keeping my head above water and you want me to do more stuff. And that's, but it kind of felt like no, they didn't know what else to do. So, hey, at least it's something, and this is what we're gonna do for our ADHD clients. And I'm all for giving us support, but that is how it felt at the start.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, that is very interesting. And obviously, you've written your book, you you know, talk about ADHD regulation. There is more of a conversation now in the research about dysregulation with ADHD. But I can imagine that this idea wasn't the most popular when you first started talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yes, and I do see it commonly. Like you said, you see regulation and dysregulation in the ADHD conversation quite a bit. And the more I was talking about it, this is like incessantly what I talk about, like even in my intro. I think you said ADHD regulation like four times.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, I did. I was like, how do I achieve that?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Which is perfect because that's I am a broken record. Like, this is what I do and what I do alone. I do hear other people talk about it, but they might mention it in a little side note. Like, oh, by the way, take some deep breaths, meditation might be good. What I'm saying is don't bother with anything and focus your full attention in getting your system out of fight or flight, and that is going to have so much benefit that greatly outweighs any other efforts, at least at first. I mean, as a foundation, of course, we want tools and strategies, and there's so many amazing things out there, but it is so big and such a big deal. The more I've worked with people for hundreds and hundreds of hours, I have seen that really without it, everything else is a bit like an umbrella and a hurricane. Like it's it's only gonna do so much.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

I want to know then from you like, can you describe some of the reactions that you got from the ADHD community when you started talking about this?

SPEAKER_02 4:23

And and even to this day, I get lots of comments of that's just how ADHDers are. We're dysregulated. So, yeah, we know that. Or I get that a lot. Yeah, we know. Okay. If you really knew, this is the only thing you'd be concerned about. But I do think there is a belief still, yes, ADHDers are dysregulated. We know this. It's just a mechanism of the ADHD brain. Too bad, so sad. That is not what I have seen working with over a thousand people in my in-depth program. So, like, really in the weeds with over a thousand people, huge changes, huge changes. So it is not that it we are inherently dysregulated. I believe my theory is why is every single lady each deer dysregulated? Because we are different. We are neurodivergent people living in a neurotypical world. You've just had enough little pokes and prods your whole life that has put our system on the defense. So, yes, it looks innate, it looks inevitable, but it is not.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, that's really interesting. So then, you know, if we think about it from that perspective, like what about the conversation? I think I was here, I saw an article recently. I don't know where it was from, so it might not have been amazing, but I saw an article about the idea that, you know, ADHD kids don't benefit from therapy because of, you know, they're not getting the strategies that they need. So there's almost this sense of it's a curious shift, I think, between the practical strategies and the therapeutic side. It almost feels like it's been divided. And I'm curious on your thoughts on like how much of what you're talking about is is therapeutic, and how much of what you're talking about is particularly strategies that you might not see in your typical therapeutic relationship.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

It boils down to being therapeutic because it's all internal. It is the physical, the thoughts and the beliefs, and the behavior. It's all coming from inside the house, right? So I don't talk about it. Lots of people do external regulation. Well, just, you know, have do less, rest more, disengage more from life. That avoidance of things will regulate you. Yeah, but that's not true regulation. So it is therapeutic in the sense that it's the internal work. Of course, we can support ourselves with it externally, but 99% is internal. The specific approach I use, I did create from, of course, my knowledge as a therapist and from my trainings and from research, but they are unique ways to kind of, I guess, think, cut straight through the ADHD brain that doesn't like the fluff and the roundabout and the like it is simple, it is straightforward, it is really logical. And so it is therapeutic in nature, but I think it it hits a little different, especially for ADHD years.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

So, what then, what is the thing that you're bringing that is that is different from sort of standard therapeutic practice?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yeah, absolutely. So I use th three levels of regulation, one being the nervous system, that's the basic stuff, right? The body, if we are clenched and not breathing and rushing around, yes, that is signaling to the nervous system that we are unsafe. That's pretty normal. The slight change, especially for each year, I go away from task-based regulation. So there's no yoga, there's no meditation, there's no breathing exercises, there's no tapping, there's no polyvagal stuff. There's nothing exactly. There's nothing to do. What it is is pure awareness and interruption, meaning when I notice I'm rushing, I stop myself, even if it's for five seconds, and I'm working at slowly knocking myself out of that dysregulated physical state over time. So that's a bit of a different shift, and I think it really is helpful for it each year. So we cannot have anything more on our to-do list. And then the second piece is the thoughts and beliefs. I do think this is where most people stop with regulation. We stop with the body. We say it's somatic, it's just about the body, can't think your way out of dysregulation, so it's stop there. But I have not seen that to be enough. Because we have a nervous system that feels unsafe, it has created an entire belief system and way of thinking that is rooted in fear, guilt, urgency, and shame. Those are the motivators of dysregulation. And that is, I was gonna say hardwired. It's not hardwired, but it is, you know, that pattern is ingrained. We have to retrain the brain to get out of thinking in a dysregulated way. And so that's going to be, you know, negative self-talk. That is a motivator of a dysregulated system. If I'm hard enough on her, she'll run away from the bear, she'll be safe. So let's use all that negative motivation, which I know as ADHDers, we know how sometimes that's the only thing that quote unquote works. Feeling bad, feeling guilty, feeling urgency, but that is fueling the dysregulation fire. This is a slightly bigger topic, but fighting with reality. So I should have done that yesterday. I should have been like this, I should be further along, I should, I have to, I'm, you know, judgment, all of that is fighting with reality, which puts our system back into fight or flight. Meaning, yeah, I should have done that yesterday. Okay, well, the reality is you didn't. So where are we gonna go from here? It's really landing, which is again presence, mindfulness. We could wrap it up in that bow, but just that really specific way of realizing, oh, my thoughts and beliefs are rooted in a reality that I'm in danger, even though it's not true. And I got to get that brain back online with the reality that I'm safe. And that takes some work. It's busy in there, it's got a lot going on. You pull one thread and five others come out. And this is why this part of the work I would say is like 80% of the work, the thoughts and beliefs, because yes, we can practice slowing down, but the that's really not the work. The work is when I slow down, why is it so uncomfortable? Because I believe that if I slow down, I'm gonna fall behind, I'm gonna fail, I have to rush to be successful, I have to be in a frantic tizzy in order to survive. My gosh, those beliefs are so ingrained. And if we do not work on those, there's no way the physical body is going to really land in a regulated place in any sort of long-term fashion. And then the last piece, kind of the other part of the sandwich, is behavior. So we can see dysregulated behavior in the extremes. I either clean the whole house or I'm not even gonna pick up my clothes. I either sit down and hammer that workout, that work project out, or I don't even start. That is the definition of dysregulation, swinging from one extreme to the other. So it's a really intentional practice of flexible thinking, middle ground, balance, observing where we are in all or nothing thinking, and using some strategies to open our eyes to all of the nuance. And the reason that is rooted in dysregulation is because when a nervous system and a body feel they're in danger, it on purpose thinks in black and white, safe, unsafe, right? So the brain is doing that on purpose, it's really smart. If we were in the forest being chased by a bear, we need to know like what cave is safe, what cave is not safe, what food is safe, what food is not safe. But of course, in modern day, assuming you are physically safe, we need more nuance than that for all the stuff we need to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

And I think it's such an interesting conversation because I imagine that a lot of people have this conversation and there's a little bit of defensiveness, I would even say. I definitely felt it reading the book for myself, because there is a little bit of the sense of like, yeah, but that's the strength that I bring to the table, is like the ability to be good in a crisis or the ability to be able to do that. And there is that sense of going, I talked to Jamie C about this since she works with business owners, you know. Yeah, and and it it is the similar concept of like, how do you like succeed? You know, meet your like you always have that sense of like a lot of people they have the sense of I could I know I could do better, I know I have potential. How do you meet your potential in a regulated way?

SPEAKER_02 12:10

I'd say you can't meet your potential in a dysregulated way. Being dysregulated is like running with a parachute on. You know, when runners are training and they have those parachutes to increase resistance, that's what you're doing. When you regulate, you cut the parachute off. You don't have to run as hard, but you're gonna go so much further. I'll tell you what, I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years. I did not get a book deal and write a book and have a book published when I was dysregulated. Two years after I got regulated, I 10x'd my business. I have a book out. My second book is in talks. Like it is like a cord was cut off of me and I'm just going. But I'm not going in a frantic way where I'm gonna burn out. I really feel steady, I feel secure, I feel solid. Like I'm gonna be able to show up like this every day for the next 10 years because I'm not running around like a chick with my head cut off. I'm clear. My energy is reserved for the things that matter, not perfectionism, all or nothing thinking, guilt, shame, negative self-talk, fighting with reality, all the things that come up when we're dysregulated. Biologically, being in a state of fight or flight is taking this percentage, is not accurate. I'm just guessing, 40% of your energy. So we say, oh, ADHDers have less spoons, spoon theory. We only have so much energy. Do we? Or is just it's we're starting with less because just existing is exhausting. And this is why so many ADHDers at the end of the day will go, I haven't done anything, but frick, I'm tired. Well, you have been working hard. That system on in hyper-vigilance defensive mode is working very hard. You're just getting no fruit for that labor.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah, no, I I agree. I had a client today and we were talking about, you know, she's been trying to make content on a regular basis, basically. And I think that's a big common, you know, conversation have to be consistent. And and we have the systems and the strategies, but at the end of the day, what it came down to was being more comfortable being on stage and being viewed and like letting that become a normal thing and not a fight or flight thing that was happening. Because when that happened, you know, we were describing it as like she would get on stage and she would finally get on stage and then she'd be like, oh my gosh, like I'm being viewed, and that would that would be difficult to to handle.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

And so and that's tiring, right? So you can't keep it up. Yeah, absolutely. And that is really what I have found. As I mentioned, I was I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years, I've been in the social media space for 10 years, and I post every single day, and I see no end in sight. It is just like nothing. Because it's so if you are really grounded in reality, it's like me and my phone sitting in my office. It is nothing. Like the reality of it's actually really relaxed. But when we get into the conceptual, how who's gonna see this and what are they gonna think? And but that's all dysregulation. So am I a monk that has no anxiety and no thoughts like that ever? Of course not. Nobody is. We will always have dysregulation, but I would say the change is I function from a regulated state and I get dysregulated from things, as opposed to functioning from a dysregulated state, and then I like tip over into paralysis. I have not experienced paralysis in two years. I used to be stuck on the couch for weeks, so it really is. And I think that's the starting point is the buy-in. Because, like you said, it's like, ooh, how could yeah, but I'm working so hard, I'm hustling, and I'm already behind. You want me to regulate? And people see that as slow down, have a cup of tea, don't work so hard. I have found if someone's ambitious, they want to get regulated. That's the most ambitious thing you could do.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah. And I like that, and that's why I wanted to ask you that straight up, because I feel like, you know, you know, the sense when I see regulation, I go, like, don't make me not do things like you don't know me. Because I because a lot of the conversation is, you know, oh, you just can't do as much as everyone else. So just take a seat, have a cup of tea, and and do your regulation thing and let all of us get on with having a good life.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

I love that. Yeah. We need to be aware of that resistance, you know. So for this work, like even when I work with my groups, I'm like, okay, everybody, we're at session one. Whenever you have resistance pop up, express it so we can work through it. Because we have to have buy-in. You have to believe that being regulated is going to help you. If you believe being regulated is going to make you further behind, you will never do it. No matter how hard you try, your subconscious will get in your way every single step of the way. So that's why the belief work is so important.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

So then how do you deal with that? Because I imagine, like, you know, I I know from my own experience, and you know, looking back, maybe there's people who were right at the time, but I, you know, the conversation that I've often had as an ADHD entrepreneur is like, you need to slow down, you need to take on less, you need to relax. Because when you are a person who has the and I've got like combined type, the extroverted, like you know, side of it, it can feel like quite a lot is happening. And that's why some people even feel like before they get their diagnosis, they feel like maybe they have, you know, some other condition because they're experiencing those ups and downs. And so my question to you is like, how do you identify when you need to be regulated versus when you're just going for it and this is actually an okay thing to do?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

So it's less about what you're doing and more about how you're doing it. So, you know, when people say, Well, the deadlines tomorrow, I'm not saying don't work 10 hours. If you're gonna choose to work 10 hours, that's fine. But are you doing it like a chicken with your head cut off? Or are you, I'm just sitting here working away. My sound for regulation is do-do-do, like do-do-do-do for 10 hours. I don't care. You're grown up, you get to choose. But if you go nose to the grindstone, hyperfixate, and go crazy and rush, you will be crashed and you will have two days where you do nothing. Whereas if you keep keep it regulated, you can work lots and be regulated. You do need sleep. We are humans, we do have a certain capacity, like limited capacity in some way because of the human condition. But we can do tons right now. I have my second book on the go. I have like a second arm of my business I'm growing, I have a launch coming up in a few weeks. I had the book come out. I have two kids. I'm doing a ton, but I prioritize doing it in a regulated way. And that's being really good at knowing how you feel in your body and feel like moving in a regulated way, which I'm not running from room to room in my house. Like there's no need for that. That's just gonna spew all your energy on the floor and then you're gonna crash. I'm really aware of my thinking. So when I'm working at something and I'm like, oh, this is uncomfortable or I'm stressed, I'm like, what? What's happening here? Oh, I'm trying to get this over with. I'm already mentally on the next task. Let me just come back. Jenna, we're working on this right now. Let's just be present with it. So I'm really working on being regulated in the process. But when you are regulated in the process, you really could do a ton. Again, with human limitations. I had I signed up for two acting classes in the next month, and I went, Jenna, that's a bit much. So I moved one to July. And I, so I knew I was kind of, I was tipping over the edge there. So we we have our we have our limitations that we need to honor, but they're not different compared to neurotypical people, I don't think, if we are not in fight or flight. One year in fight or flight, yes, it's gonna feel, and I felt that way for many years. I have no capacity, I could barely do anything. I could sweep and shower today and I'm exhausted. So that is the differentiating factor, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, no, I really love that. I think that's so so valuable. I want to talk to you about regulation and delegation. Because when I work with people, often I find that this is almost where the conversation comes in a lot because delegation is such an important part of scaling your business, but so much of it involves being seen.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

And it feels like this is the thing when people are in like that dysregulated mode in their businesses, they don't want anyone else to see it, and that can make my job a lot harder, quite frankly, because I'm helping people to give away things to other people, and all that RSD, you know, not being seen on social media, not wanting anyone to see your stuff, it's all dysregulation. Because when you're regulated, if it's not life-threatening, you're good. Like that's not dangerous. Your judgment isn't dangerous. I'm I'm fine. And I want my business to grow. So I can even do uncomfortable, maybe a bit uncomfortable, but I can do it anyways because I'm regulated. So it doesn't mean you're never dysregulated by things, as I mentioned, but you build the capacity to be with the discomfort and honor yourself anyway. Kind of how I see regulation as well is if you're truly like no longer in fight or flight, what you're doing is giving power from your subconscious and neuro and nervous system back to your conscious mind, meaning I can choose to do the logical thing even when it's uncomfortable. I have way more power up here. And that would be yeah, I need support here. And they might think this is messy and done poorly, but hey, I've made it this far. Good for me. I'm okay. Even if they judge it, okay, it's gonna be uncomfortable, but I know I want the help. So the conscious mind wins. When we are dysregulated, the subconscious and the nervous system will almost always win. So, like your clients who can't post. I'm sure they want to post. They want nothing more than to post, but they can't. That is because this has the power. If this had the power, you would just do it, even if you're nervous. And that's what I love about this work. And I've really seen that in the past week. I went to the gym a few times when I was like almost having a conversation in my body like, I do not want to go yet, I was going. And it was so funny. It's like not like I'm oh, so motivated all the time, but my conscious mind wins the majority of the time. And the only reason that is possible is. Because uh my nervous system isn't freaking out and taking over the wheel.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah, no, I really like that. I really like that. It's funny because often then once we get that regulation, then the conversation becomes okay, now how do we how do we pick the gym that you enjoy? And how do we like make the ease, you know, come in through that? What I do want to know is okay, people have listened, they've been here for 20 minutes, you know, and they're like, okay, Jenna, I'm bought in. You've talked me around, let's do this. What are the things that they can do practically where they are right now? You know, business owner, stressed, million things to do. They know they got to delegate, but there's cash flow issues. What can they do to regulate in that moment?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

So the first thing is the physical piece that is the foundation. So that is where you need to start. So the first is you need to identify the physical signs of dysregulation and call it that. You need to start having so much awareness of your experience of dysregulation. We can't just call it ADHD anymore. We can't normalize it. We have to like unnormalize it because it is normal at this point. Being in anxiety, being in fight or flight to you is just a Tuesday. So, what that feels like is gonna be any physical signs of anxiety, stomach and knots, heart racing, feeling hot and flush, tense muscles. A lot of us have TMJ trap tension and problems. Um, if your shoulders are always around your ears, physically rushing, that is the best one because you can see it, and we need to be aware. Oh, that's my nervous system in fight or flight. And then the mental signs would be rumination, negative self-talk, overwhelm. We want to start labeling all of that dysregulation. So you go, oh, I'm dysregulated in the moment. We really want to start getting good at feeling it. Then once you've felt it a little bit, and you can do all this at once if you're feeling up to it, we want to interrupt it when we notice it. So if I'm running to my car, simple, simple, simple interruption. Deep breath, put your shoulders down and walk. And we do that again, then again, and then again, then again, then again. And that's frustrating for a dysregulated person. We don't want this to take time. We want to take a deep breath and have everything solved. It's not gonna happen. That will never happen. Regulation work is really about slow and steady wins the race, but it's so worth it. The alternative is just stay super dysregulated. So it's like the time's gonna pass, anyways. So let's work on it. And then once you start doing stuff like that, like, oh wow, I am slowing down. I'm not, and by slowing down, I don't mean be a snail. I mean stop running around frantically and excessively. You can go for a run. The speed is not necessarily the dysregulation, but the frantic energy. So we're really trying to work to signal to the nervous system, hey, look, nervous system, no bear here. If there was, I would not take a deep breath and slow down. I wouldn't. And look, we haven't been eaten. We can only signal to our nervous system through behavior. If anyone wants that in written form, I do have a free guide to maybe we can put that in the show notes, just a little PDF and a video walking through those steps. But then this is where the yeah, no, it's like not so cut and dry because, like I mentioned, you're gonna be working on slowing down and your beliefs are gonna start coming up from that subconscious of, yeah, but I can't because blah, blah, blah. There's not enough time in the day. I'm behind, I need to catch up. I can't rest until my to-do list is complete. These are the most common dysregulating beliefs. And then we continue on and we work through the beliefs, and it's a bit of a layered thing, but to start to slow down will already improve your executive functioning a little bit. You're gonna notice it's less taxing, you're gonna have a little bit more energy. So that is an awesome place to begin.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

No, I love that. I love that. I hope everyone is listening to this. This is very good stuff. So, what is the thing that you've done in your life? You talked about the book, you've talked about everything. What is the thing you've done that you feel the most, the most proud of? And maybe I'll give a twist on the question. The most proud of, and you did it regulated.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

I think the thing I'm most proud of, which is I did half of it dysregulated and half of it regulated, would have been my tenacity. As I mentioned, I started as an entrepreneur 10 years ago. I made almost nothing for the first seven, like just covering childcare costs. Like gosh. Like up and down here and there, but nothing growing. Like it did not feel solid. Then I got regulated and I 10x'd my income and I grew everything I wanted in two and a half years in a regulated state. But it took that dysregulated me to never give up. Like I knew it. I always knew I had this in me. I knew this is what I was meant for. I knew I could do it. And so that belief, I holding that belief, even in the face of no evidence, I think it's the thing I'm the most proud of.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

I love that. That's amazing. And then on the other side, what is the thing that you find is the most the biggest embarrassment or failure that you had? And how did you deal with that?

SPEAKER_02 26:52

At this point, I don't have any embarrassment, but at the time, um, me and my business partner invested in an app and it failed within like we invested like $50,000 and it flopped in like two months, and it was so bad. And I felt like, oh my gosh, my world is crumbling. But then two years after that, I was more successful than I'd ever been. So it's just a journey, and you just gotta go along for all the ups and downs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

And honestly, look, I remember, I remember there was a time, people don't, you know, if you've just around in the age of AI, you might not remember this, but there was a time where apps were the the AI of the internet. Like it was like, I have an app. I would get a message every week, like, there's an ADHD app and it's gonna make you irrelevant. It was like, it's gonna be the best. And and a lot of a lot of those apps did not make it. You were not the only one.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

It was uh it was a rough go. It was an interesting time. I learned a lot, my way back up.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

And then, you know, of everything that you've done, if you had a quote that you love, that you like to say, that you like to remember, what would that quote be?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

James Taylor, the purpose of life is enjoying the passage of time. So for us ADHDers, especially when we're dysregulated, we can really live like the purpose of life is to check off to-do lists until we die. And I'm not here for it. The biggest motivator of going down this road of finding a different approach was because I wanted to enjoy. Yes, I want to be successful, I'm very ambitious, I want to do a lot, I want to be productive, I don't want to be frozen like this, but I also want to be happy. And that idea of like, hey, I could achieve all I want in the whole wide world, but if not, I'm not enjoying the ride, what's it all for? And so that is like what I hold most dear. So it's like no matter how much you want, just observe like, but I am enjoying every day along, along the way.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I love that. I love that. And it's such a good reminder. I told so many people about this. They're like, they they I can now they're talking about, I can see the dysregulation. They start to get like, but if I did this, what about the to-do list? I'd have to put it down, and it's like, yes, please, please put it down. Like, who cares if the back drawer in your office is never fully cleaned for six months, you're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Totally. And that's what I love about I mean, I'm a broken record, but that's what I love about regulation work. It allows you to have much more comfort with things undone, with things being imperfect. You can prioritize the things that matter and be at peace with the things you chose not to do. So it gives you much more room to enjoy life. Because if we believe, and this is in the belief section of the book, is like, I'll be happy when I achieve XYZ. If you are using ambition and success and business to fill a void, it ain't ever gonna work. You have to be good now, and that's regulation, so that you can feel good at every stage when you hit all those amazing milestones that you will much more quickly if you are not running around like chick with your head cut off.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah, 100%. Well, Jenna, tell everybody about where they can find you and where they can find your book.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Absolutely. You can find me at jennifree.com and you can find the book anywhere books are sold, Amazon, your local bookstore, wherever your heart desires.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the ADHD Skills Lab. If you liked it, leave us a five-star review. It helps other people learn more about us. And thank you so much to our wonderful team for making us sound good, look good. We couldn't do it without you.