ADHD Diagnosis Criteria Explained By People Who Actually Have It

You've read the ADHD criteria a dozen times and still aren't sure if you actually qualify.
Skye and Robbie Waterson and sit down with the DSM-5 itself and read through the inattentive criteria line by line, the same list a clinician would use for an actual diagnosis. They score themselves against each one in real time, and they don't agree on most of them.
The conversation covers why the criteria were written for children and then loosely translated for adults, why "close attention to detail" means something different for someone who triple checks every payment versus someone who doesn't notice errors at all, and why your own family's version of "normal" can hide a pattern you've had your whole life. Skye also explains the difference between primarily inattentive, primarily hyperactive, and combined type, and why subclinical scores still matter even if you never meet the full six-symptom threshold.
If you've ever wondered whether you "really" have ADHD or just relate to some of it, this episode shows you exactly what's being measured and why that question is harder to answer than it sounds.
What We Cover:

• The actual nine inattentive criteria from the DSM-5, read directly from the manual
• Why the same criterion can apply to one person and not the other, even with shared ADHD
• How the criteria shift between children and adults
• Why family normal can mask a lifelong pattern
• The difference between subclinical and clinical, and why it still matters

 P.S. Losing work because the admin layer around your business can't keep up with you? Invisible Systems is a 90-day done-for-you sprint where I (Skye) extract the processes from your head, build the operating layer, and find the right person to run it. Six spots left at the founding price, book a call at https://www.unconventionalorganisation.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think that's probably the hardest thing about self-diagnosis in general would be like, what do you mean that's not normal kind of thing? I just thought that was everything. My whole family does that. You're like, yeah, well, interesting point.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Especially when it's genetic, and ADHD is, you know, genetic. So it's, yeah, it comes into it. Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the ADHD Skills Lab. I am here with my husband and co-founder Robert Waterson, and we're going to talk about the DSM. In this series, we're going to be diving into the different parts of the DSM. We'll talk about the DSM through history. And hopefully by the time this is finished, you are going to be an expert in the system that was used to give you a diagnosis or help with medication. Or, you know, even if you are diagnosed, this will help you get a better sense of what it means to have ADHD, at least according to the diagnostic and statistical manual. And also how the diagnostic and statistical manual has changed a ton over the past couple of years. I will say also, just as a disclaimer, we are not diagnosing anyone. We are not experts in anything related to diagnostic practices. We are simply having a look at this document in the same way as we look at any kind of research, getting a sense of what it is, how it works, and hopefully empowering you guys to have more knowledge and information about your own diagnoses so that you can use it and uh share it and kind of do whatever you want with it. So feel free to play along with us as we go through the different pieces. We'll be talking about what we relate to, what we don't relate to. If you want to, you can always DM me at unconventional organization on Instagram and tell me what really resonated for you. Before we get into it, as you guys know, if you're a service business owner with ADHD symptoms, you're making between 500K and 2 million, and you feel like the entire business runs through your brain and you're just not getting the capacity to grow that you want. We help with that. We help you get organized, we help identify your bottleneck, and we help you get somebody installed to support that as well as build SOPs. So we have a few spaces left for that. If you're interested in that, please go ahead, click the link down below, and you can do a free business build-out session with me. We can see if you're a good fit.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Oh, and I can already tell that having two big windows open in the new studio is going to be a source of distraction, which will come up as we proceed through the first five criterion in the inattention diagnostic criteria. So we'll be looking at the DSM 5TR text revision, I think, from 2022. So that's the most recent, that's the most up-to-date DSM. It contains 18 criterion, nine for inattention, nine for hyperactivity, attention deficit, and hyperactivity. You can either end up with a what is it, combined or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

So there's three different types of ADHD. And this is actually, this has changed over time. So if this doesn't sound familiar to you, you probably got diagnosed with a different version. But at the moment, you can have three kinds of ADHD. You can have primarily inattentive, primarily hyperactive, or combined type. For interest, I am primarily combined type. Robbie hasn't been officially diagnosed, but when you did go through it, you felt like you're probably primarily inattentive. And the diagnostic and statistical manual, it's not just about ADHD. They also have a lot of other things in there. You know, they have schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, all of those kinds of things. The whole manual was created, at least when I was studying it in university, it was discussed as being created to sort of organize and group different struggles that people saw people having in terms of mental health specifically and cognitive functioning. And with the idea that they would then be able to better understand how it worked in the brain once they had those groupings. And there's some controversy, not really controversy, but if you're an academia, I guess it's controversy, as to whether they really have successfully done that or done that the way that they thought they would be able to do it. But that's why we have these, and that's why they change and they have changed so often, because people are always trying to get a better sense of what these groupings are.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

It's kind of intended as a work in progress.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yes. Yeah. It's a very important manual because it's part of how we diagnose people and do things around medication, for example. It's usually well, it needs to be done with an expert because that expert is able to take these systems and look at the person and look at their history and take other things into account and kind of use it. Like you couldn't just look at the manual and be like, oh, I have access to this text, therefore I understand exactly what this person has. It's more of a combination between expertise and the diagnostic process.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, you'd need the experience and sort of a good idea of what is, I think, baseline and what is ADHD. I think that's probably the hardest thing about self-diagnosis in general would be like, what do you mean? That's not normal kind of thing. I just thought that was everything, but my whole family does that. You're like, yeah, well, uh interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Especially when it's genetic and ADHD is, you know, genetic. So it's yeah, it comes into it. And and this is one of the things, even with this, I know we're gonna go through this and we're gonna be like, oh, I feel like this might be me, maybe not, and you know, it it is tricky to do. Okay, so should we do the first one, Robbie?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, so just to be clear, this is this is part of a plan for sort of a fuller arc going from DSM uh definitions. We'll go through all the criterion and talk about how we relate to them and maybe talk about what the sort of mechanics underneath them are. We'll have a look at the history of it, we'll have a look at what it doesn't yet contain that it might end up including in the future based on like recent research. We'll have a, I think we'll have a do a deeper dive into this idea of subclinical diagnosis. So people sort of losing their clinical level ADHD diagnosis, but still having a lot of the underlying traits.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, which I think a lot of people don't know about. I find that really fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, well, we touched on it with the perception of time findings, that research paper that was showing even the subclinical, even the the when the participants came back, even the ones that were subclinical were still showing this underlying trait. They just were no longer meeting all of the diagnostic criteria. And then I want to jump into some genetic like evolution in terms of the heritability, and also just sort of uh there are some interesting papers around genes that we know are associated with ADHD that show up more in nomadic populations than the several populations. So I want to have a look at that. Just in terms of the requirements, I think you touched on obviously doing it with a professional. I think it's also worth mentioning that they they will want to look for corroborating evidence from someone who knew you as a child. They're looking for, if you're an adult, obviously, or a teenager, uh, they're looking for evidence of it as a pattern before age 12. They're looking for it in two or more settings. So the classic would be home and work, but obviously for a kid, work would be academia or or for an adult. And I think home/slash social, so sort of different areas of life where it's it's impacting them both locations.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Okay, so we're looking for it around different areas of your life, and we're looking for it in terms of across time. So that will probably be part of how we describe our own experiences with it.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, and it needs to obviously be above sort of baseline, what is normal for people and and also which are the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

I have no idea. I hang out with so few people who don't have ADHD at this point.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

And obviously, if you're a kid, then it needs to be not developmentally typical for that age, obviously, which is kind of the same thing as saying baseline.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

So the first one is often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, at work, or during other activities. So overlooks or misses details or work is inaccurate. I immediately feel called out.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

I think the the way I have to triple, quadruple, I'm not gonna go into how many times check things like bank numbers that have been put in for paying paying invoices, or yeah, like to the point where I will just say to people, if if people try to tell me their bank account number, I'm like, no, text it to me, give it to me in some sort of copy-pasteable digital location so that it's not on me to and then I'll still check the numbers out of habit. But and that goes for, I think that just goes for lots of things, forms.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

So for you, it's it's uh you are already aware that you could make careless mistakes, and so you're triple checking as a result, which is the interesting thing about adult ADHD, is that we have often developed quite compensatory strategies at that point. We might say, Oh no, I'm the most neurotic, careful person in the world. And it's like, well, yes, but why? What happened in your childhood that made you like this?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

It's probably worth noting. I don't I don't feel like I have like OCD tendencies. I'm not checking it repetitively because I'm I'm doing that because I've been burned on that before. I've been burned on you know handing things in or submitting things and having missed important details.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

When I was younger, I would miss the back of a test or an exam sheet.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

So check the last page.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, that was something I had to learn to do. And then a really weird one is when I was doing my initial assessment for ADHD, they made me do writing because they thought maybe it was dyslexia, and they found that I would miss parts of words when I was handwriting because I was trying to write as fast as possible, and so I would miss little pieces of a word, and that was my like, they were like, Oh, this isn't dyslexia, this is just your ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

So you just you'd half finish a word and keep going.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, I would sort of like I didn't even realize I was doing it, but I would write like this and I would miss the S on this, and I would just keep going because I was like trying to get it out. As and now obviously with whisper flow and and all of these other things, it doesn't matter. But at the time I was handwriting.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

You're like, ah, it's enough. On to the next one.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Yeah, I'd be like, that's enough of that word.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

We're in a rush, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Which maybe explains why I always feel like I'm in a rush to you. It even comes up in my writing.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yeah, I I remember in I think high school with a assignments. I remember having instances of answering assignments or questions and handing it in and getting a really low mark and be like, wait, what? And realizing I hadn't fully read the question properly and I had just gone off in a completely different direction and done like the sort of like 10 out of 10 for like what you did do, but like it wasn't what we asked you to do. So we can't really give you full marks.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Like, I love it, but it's not yeah, I if that had been the question, then like, yeah, 10 out of 10. Okay, so I think we're both getting a full tick on this one.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

I have so okay. This is also I think a more recent example I have of this is trying to pay tax just recently. So provisional tax. I I've got a whole spreadsheet where I've like planned out what I need to do. We're paying for you, I'm paying for me. We've got student loans to pay off as well, and then and then the company needs to pay taxes as well. So I'm like, okay, I may make a little spreadsheet, put all the details in here, okay, triple check them on this side, okay, put them into the bank accounts, lodge, lodge all five payments, and then double check on the bank side and kind of get to the point where I'm like, okay, this is silly, it's taking hours, just start doing it. Like you're being you're starting to be too neurotic here. Send them all off, congratulate myself, and then the next day notice that amounts of money have been returned to various different bank accounts because of course I hadn't actually updated. I think yours in particular were still linked refund accounts to old bank accounts. So all of those payments, with the exception of the student loan, they just kept it. They're like, yeah, we're good. But the provisional tax, I had put in the correct year if it was an end-of-year payment, but it wasn't an end of year payment, which is the last one I did. It was a provisional tax payment. So it's for the next year.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Uh Who Among Us? Who Among Us hasn't messed up something on a tax form?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

I will say that might sound like a reasonable mistake. I I know the difference though. I and I triple-checked it and I still didn't catch. Oh no, that one's wrong for this. It should go back to being 2026.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

So the second criterion often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities, so has difficulty remaining focused during lectures, conversations, or lengthy reading, which is essentially the struggle to focus versus not listening when spoken to directly. Okay, so that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I would say C is kind of a yeah, because I was having the same thought. And I think C, I think if you're answering C, you're almost answer, almost certainly answering B. But I think that's okay. That's just like here's an even more extreme version of it. Like you're one-on-one with someone, they're talking to you, there's no, there's not even any other distractions, and you're still losing focus, which by the way, I completely relate to.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Well, that makes sense, given that we are reading the diagnostic criteria for the thing we have.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I relate to this in particular, like, yeah, particularly childhood memories, being spoken to or like given instructions by a parent and just zoning out, and then they, I think, eventually sort of realize my eyes are no longer totally paying attention to them. And they asked, like, hey, have you been listening? Like, what I've been like, I've been trying to tell you what you need to do, and just being like, Yeah, sorry. Just genuinely, I didn't mean to do this. I wasn't ignoring you, and like particularly embarrassing when it happens a second time straight afterwards. You're trying so hard to hold the tension, but what they're telling you is so boring, and you Yeah, I find that one.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

I've I've definitely had that experience. I think, yeah, with this with the criterion C, so that's the one about not paying attention, so your mind is elsewhere. I found this particularly the case during you know, those mingling activities like networking, where it's like you're talking to somebody and then they're talking to you, but then somebody next to you starts having a conversation as well. I find that really tough.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I will say C, I don't think it's it necessitates the so it's even in the absence of any obvious distraction. That would obviously be a obvious distraction.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Well, I don't know. Would would would neurotypicals count that as an obvious distraction? Like somebody's talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

I think to be fair though, I think that would still be C. You're being spoken to directly. It's a one-on-one conversation. I think C is probably true regardless of whether or not there is an obvious distraction. But the if there's an obvious, if there isn't even an obvious distraction, then it's like uh like a definite yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

But it doesn't say it sounds as an obvious distraction because we we have windows and I can see cars driving past, and that's distracting me. And and it's like, would that count as an obvious distraction to somebody who doesn't have a DHD? This is where you have to get a practitioner to assess you.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

I mean, my example of that would be where there is an obvious distraction to me, but maybe not to neurotypicals, is if I'm in a pub and they always have TVs everywhere, I have to like actually I'll have to just apologize and say, like, hey, can we switch seats? Because like you have a TV behind your head, and I cannot, I'm not retaining a word you can.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

We went out over the weekend and we were just congratulating ourselves on finding a seat that was avoiding all the TVs, but the window was reflective, so we could still and it was fine because it wasn't it wasn't too distracting, but it it was funny.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah, it's funny as well. I I'm not I'm often not a fan of what's on the TV. Um, it doesn't matter, it's just a flashing box of images and things happening, and I can't like I have to get it out of my peripheral vision.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

100%. Yeah, I think I think the focus the focus one is tough because it's the biggest thing. Like if I if I am on Instagram and I say, hey, we're gonna post something about focus, that's where I get the most responses. People really identify the struggle with focus because usually everyone has something, especially if you're working for somebody else or if you're a business owner who hasn't handed off those kinds of tasks yet, you have something where you just have to get through it. It's like the thing you dread most that day. It's like I have to read this report, I have to I have to do this, and so much of the stuff around dopamine dialing and breaking things down and the step into focus routine and all of those kinds of things that we've built are around just helping you to focus.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I think a lot of those would be more that's interesting. So focus in that context, I think, is almost I think some of those will come up in terms of criterion D, in terms of following through with instructions or finishing schoolwork.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

But I do feel like it's relevant because having difficulty sustaining attention in tasks, remaining focused during lengthy reading, I mean contracts come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah, and and having the tools to Yeah, no, I see what you mean. Having the tools to keep you at that task. So for instance, making sure you have everything you need before you start. I think also making the level of stimulation in that environment. So realizing like, okay, I'm going to be completing a long form today or this morning. I should put some candy and some music on and have someone with a nice view and do a bunch of things so that I'm not going to and maybe get um a pot of coffee or like tea here. So I'm not gonna have those reasons to get up and pause all of that sort of not gonna have a reason to get up and leave the space. I'm not gonna get distracted by other things on the way to wherever I'm going, like the kitchen, and I'm not gonna have all of that sort of transition time cost of doing so as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

So like when you're sleep deprived, you know, I was hearing someone talk about sleep deprivation the other day, and they said, Yeah, when you're really sleep deprived, you just feel like you're pushing through. Like everything is just a push to just like do the thing, answer the question. And I think often our focus can feel the same way. It's like you're just like trying to stay engaged.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, sorry, I was just thinking about lecture lecturers, some of those professors who are just dialing in the classes that they're doing. You're just like, okay, you pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

There was a class once that was like that because they they he wrote everything on a whiteboard, even though we used to have like PowerPoints and other things. Nowadays, people can just be at home. That was not the case when I was in university. You could not those lectures were not recorded.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

I think they I think they knew that that would not lead to good end results. And I suspect given the amount of people who are pushing to unremote everything.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

I yeah, I don't know what the universities are doing now, but um, but yeah, it definitely was tough because you had to focus, otherwise you missed it. Like if you did not focus in a lecture, that was it. It was done, which in some ways added to the dopamine of it all.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

But um but I really hated that because if I was having to take notes in the course, then I wasn't able to also pay attention. So I would then have to read my notes afterwards instead of having just listened the first well and okay, and admittedly I was definitely going the daydream and miss sections of the lecture. But it was still better to have listened to 25 minutes out of 40 of the lecture at the time and then have the notes as supplementary rather than having to make my notes as so now I'm spending hours every week making notes that you could you just you have, but you're denying me.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, I mean I think we've talked about this before, but I had a little like recording device that I would press, like an external recording device that I would bring with me and like press and then write the notes, and then that was how I did it.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

And our team will always start a meeting recording when we're having a live.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Oh my gosh. I had a session, there was a client that I was working with the other day, and their their systems integrator that we were just talking about did not know that you were that you had to do that. It's just very, very new to the thing. She didn't know that you were supposed to do that, and she was manually remembering and writing everything down. Yeah, we were just like, no, you do not have to do that. You can use AI transcription now.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

It's impressive that you're capable of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah, very impressive. Really, really solid reason why she was so good. But yeah, she just did not have that information that you can now do the recordings with AI.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

It is nice how much technology is solving ADHD issues.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Yeah, and now she does, and that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

I suppose it's kind of a coming full circle moment from presumably having it been adaptive in like a more natural environment, having it become very maladaptive in sort of this modern school slash office environment, and then technology slowly making it actually not as much of an issue anymore. Okay, so actually let's try and finish off C.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Doesn't listen when spoken to directly. Mind seems elsewhere, which I think is something both you and I do. We do to each other as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Not as much as with I would say less. I mean, that's part of the reason I think we're married, is because less than other people in my life, I find myself drifting away from your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Um that's ADHD love right there. But even still, and I think and it's still frustrating, although I think we both We have a relatively good level of I mean on a good day, we have a relatively good level of. I think we can also see each other's tells.

unknown 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

We can t we can tell when the other person's but we also there is a bit of like, hey if you tell me like uh-huh, I'm like, mmm, I'm no longer being listened to. I didn't even know I did that until you started telling me. But yeah, it it's one of those things where we do try and make sure that we get each other's attention before we start talking. Because that's the thing as well, is like like making sure that you're present.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

But also I think realizing when we lose it, I think I think the example an example of me doing this in conversations with you is also when you tell me something and I cut back in with a completely disjointed because something you said at the start of when you were talking got me thinking. I've been in my own head. For the rest of what you've said, and I want to and I think sometimes I will have also have been following what you've been saying, and sometimes I won't have been, and I'll be like, This is what we're talking about now. And you're thinking, Where did this come from? This is not what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah. Although I can kind of tell when you do it because you literally are just like just looking, you know, around at nothing. Yeah. There are tells you you've got like really solid ideas.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

You're like, oh, if I start smiling to myself, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

This is usually when we're on a walk, but yeah. And then my one is I do have a tendency to be like, right, yep, no worries. Like automatically.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

You've got these automatic affirmation. Yeah, I think an example of this is being caught in a meeting when the question gets back to you. I I relate to this. The minute a meeting, I think this is probably more of an example of B. It's a conversation that you're a part of. There's only five people in the meeting, whatever, but it's not like a one-on-one situation. So I think C is is really about one-on-one, like being spoken to directly and losing it in the middle of that. The meeting experience is more, especially if two people start talking about something and it's not directly related to what you you're doing, then immediately good luck paying attention to that. And so if you haven't actively gone back to work, which obviously is gonna completely take you out of the conversation, you're still gonna start daydreaming or thinking about something else, or thinking about something else you have to do, even if you're not actively like putting it into the computer. Inevitably the conversation moves on to something that you should have been paying attention to, and then you get asked a question, and you're just like, okay, I'm gonna try and wing this because it's pretty rude that I wasn't paying attention to the meeting. And I think the way I mean I think the way we're working around that and solving that is just don't have as large group meetings. Like have the meetings be one-on-one or three people, don't have long detours where people are talking about something that isn't relevant to everyone in the meeting.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

We use breakout rooms if that happens. Like we used a breakout room just this morning where Robbie and I met with two other members of our team, and pretty quickly after we've gotten the basics out of the way, me and Christine split off, and then you worked with your with your team member, and and that that works really well.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

So we try and keep things don't make ADHD people listen to stuff that's not relevant to them. You will lose them, you will need to bring them back in.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

With one exception, which is that sometimes I come to a meeting, so I come to your Monday meeting and I kind of just use it as body doubling. But it's okay, but that's a big difference, right? We wouldn't expect you to be able to do that. You're not expecting me to hear everything. Yeah. But I think that's really important because sometimes people love body doubling and then they feel like, oh, well, the meetings like this is actually worth mentioning is that meetings, when people say, Oh, meetings are not important, you should have less meetings. That that means you should have less time when you're engaged doing nothing, basically. But you can have as many body doubling meetings as you want as long as everyone's getting something done. Because for some people, those I mean, you and I, after this, we'll go to a coffee shop and have a body doubling meeting where we'll both work.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah. I think it's just about having a high stimulation environment to work in, though.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

That's not really No, no, it's not relevant for standby my thing of don't don't put people in meetings where they have Yeah, don't put people in active meetings, but body doubling with other people because sometimes people uh feel like they have to be alone or they you know in the world.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

It's one of the things I found about team meetings with like with programming is so much time listening to people talk about the projects that they're working on. I think in theory, you're hoping to have moments where someone else's expertise is relevant or they are learning. It it's too boring.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Although that being said, I really benefit from from hiring somebody to teach me something rather than just trying to do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Right. So you like you're saying your preferred method for taking on new information is still to have a one-on-one conversation. So it's it's not that you can't pay attention to a one-on-one conversation, but it needs to like I think we're talking about I think with all of these things, we're talking about these are mostly issues when you're not really interested in the thing that you're paying attention to. Which like which is a lot of things. Sometimes it's it's even really important and you are trying and you're still failing. I think there'd be opportunities in like a one-on-one sort of context where you have got an expert to like explain something to you where you know it's it's the most pressing issue that you've got. You want to learn about this thing, and you still might, if they are a little bit boring in their delivery or a little bit wandering and meandering in their delivery, zone out on them and start thinking about something else, or start thinking about how it's gonna apply to something and miss part of what they've said. But yeah, I mean it still beats asking an AI and trusting, trusting for no hallucinations, or having to go and you know find the support text and learn from that.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah, 100%. I mean, that brings us back to the focus part, right? Which one are you gonna focus on more?

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Well, I guess also what you're advocating for, sorry, is is part of the advantage. I think the reason you brought that up is when you can pay to have someone who's just an expert in this thing explain it to you. You can skip a lot of that nonsense and get right down to don't worry, just skip that pop-up. That warning is nonsense. You can ignore that, you can ignore this, ignore all of that, ignore those tabs, and just go over here kind of thing. And you can just get straight to the answer. And so it's a much more efficient way of learning how to do something. Claiming you were never told something, I think, is a turn uh a place where this turns up in a relationship where like you or I know full well that we did tell you and we told you this morning. So the fact that you don't remember it is not a reflection on whether or not I told you.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

I think we're pretty good about that because I think we know that we might forget, conceding that, yeah. But I've heard of people uh doing things like recording, being like, we're recording this to prove like all that kind of stuff. Yeah, 100%. That can get difficult. Okay. So that is the beginning of our DSM episode. We're gonna come back.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

We're gonna We've done A, we've done C, we've done a little bit of B.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

We're gonna finish B and come back and keep doing D.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

But I planned four episodes. I think it might be a bit longer.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, depending on how many, how many examples we have of this?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

I might not relate to the hyperactivity stuff as much.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

So But let us know what you relate to. If this is something that you want to hear more about, do you know the DSM? Is it something that you have gone through before on your own? Really curious to get a sense of your ideas because what we want to do is start to kind of get a sense not just of what we do, but also of what everybody else is experiencing when it comes to the DSM because it's a it's a living document and we might as well add a bit of our own data to that document. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the ADHD Skills Lab. If you liked it, leave us a five star review. It helps other people learn more about us. And thank you so much to our wonderful team for making us sound good, look good. We couldn't do it without you.