Off-Shelf Displays: Driving Brand Discovery

The last three feet of the retail journey are where brands are either made or forgotten. While digital marketing and social media influencers can build awareness, the physical reality of the store floor remains the ultimate conversion point for 80-90% of shoppers. Joshua Linden joins the conversation to break down why high-stakes retail execution is the difference between a successful product launch and a costly logistical nightmare.

We sit down to discuss the strategic shift toward off-shelf merchandising and how employee-owned partners like Bay Cities manage end-to-end solutions from design to fulfillment. We get into the tactical complexities of multi-vendor programs, the critical timing differences between "collect" and "prepaid" shipping, and why structural integrity is an insurance policy for your brand’s reputation. Joshua shares the "secret sauce" behind how emerging brands like Bloom Nutrition and Dr. Squatch use disruptive secondary placements to steal market share from incumbents who have grown complacent on the home shelf.

The unglamorous truth of retail is that even a perfect product will fail if it’s stuck in a brown box in the backroom or if the display arrives partially empty. These operational friction points can cost brands hundreds of thousands of dollars in third-party labor fixes and lost sales velocity. You will walk away with a clear understanding of the "easy button" for merchant approvals and a mindset shift regarding how to pitch category growth rather than just your own brand's footprint.

If you care about retail logistics, in-store merchandising, and scaling emerging brands, you’ll get a lot from this episode. Please Subscribe and Share to help us continue bringing boots-on-the-ground retail expertise to your feed.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Hello and welcome to the Retail Journey Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Charles Greenhouse.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And I am James Harris, and today we're talking to Joshua Linden, sales executive from Bay City. Welcome to the Retail Journey. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I'm glad to be here. Looking forward to it. Joshua, I mean, we've gotten to do a lot of interesting things together from building programs at retail as a merchant to being on this side to walking trade shows, Bay City packaging y'all into some corrugate, but that that doesn't really describe it. Can you uh before we uh you know get too deep, I'd love to hear just a quick like Bay Cities. How would you describe what Bay Cities is up to?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Yeah, I think when I think about Bay Cities, I think about the people. As we're an employee-owned company, we take a lot of pride in what we do. And we are a strategic partner and end-to-end solution provider for not only retailers, but brands. So we're doing the design, we're doing the line drawings and the manufacturing, the fulfillment, and the end to you know, solution with the logistics out to the retailers. And so we're really trying to be a part of that solution, whether it be Walmart or Sam's Club, Costco or Target, we're very retail-centric. So we're focused on making sure that they hit all those marks so they understand the timelines across those things. So it's really um start to finish to get those last three feet at the store level.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah, love that. I mean, when I think of the the whole journey start to finish, being on time, in full, being thoughtful, showing up well for a customer. It's not a lot like what we do at I Impact. We just we don't have any corrugate. Yes. We don't actually build the physical anything in that journey.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

The goal is to help, yeah. The goal is to help brands win at retail. Yeah. Whether it's you know through the analytics and understanding the cost models and things like that, or just the back end of like how do we get this two stores successfully through supply chain without any failures or surprises

What Bay Cities Actually Does

SPEAKER_02 2:10

down the line that are going to cost significant dollars for those brands, or even the retailer if there's a mistake made.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Definitely a poorly executed uh palette um can really leave a mark.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Can really hurt. I love that. So when you think of a I don't know, Corgate at store, there's you know, a lot of people here that have experienced or in our audience that have experienced, you know, on the merchant side, having a plan and then seeing it either not come to life or you know come to life successfully, brands who've experienced you know, additional billboard in store and many who haven't. You know, what's the significance of getting something that's perhaps off-shelf? How do you guys see that? Because you have a unique point of view of a whole lot of programs across, across categories, across seasons. Um what's the significance of having a a secondary display, of having corrugate that can tell your brand story off the shelf?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

I might be biased, but I think it's significantly significant. Um, it's a it's a it's a part of the mix, right? And I think the last step is that retail with a lot of consumers still going into stores. I mean, there's some different statistics out there, but it's between 80 to 90 percent, depending on the category. And I think being on the shelf is great. That's that's the start of you know your journey. Like you want to get on shelf. I think if you want to stay longer, if you want a longer play, you want to make sure you're getting into the hearts of those shoppers. Like you need to be off shelf, whether that be on an in-cap or a half palette or a four-way. Yeah, those are really important marketing and sales tools that need to be implemented so that you can have more success, so that those shoppers that are in stores can understand, be communicated to this is new. Oh, when I come back, it's gonna be in this section of the store when that display isn't there anymore.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah. And if if if demand is about to surge or is surging, you can't keep enough product on the shelf sometimes, right? The the the secondary display, whether it's a pallet or something else, might be critical.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

It is extremely critical because they can drive traffic back to the store if they don't see it on on that vehicle. It's it is it's it's a step that shouldn't be missed. And I think it's important for brands to also take that to their you know, their joint business plan meetings and like how they're strategizing with the retailer and the merchant. Like they're like, oh, we're doing you know, media, we're doing social media, we're doing e-commerce, we got Walmart Connect. Well, what are you gonna do in store? How are you gonna make the customer have a really good experience? And I think, you know, from the foundation of Walmart, like that was what Sam pushed for. Like he wanted everyone to come in, have a good experience. Hi, how are you? Welcome. This is what you're gonna get when you come in here. It's kind of like a party or you know, a celebration. And now that's not every single day at the store, but the goal is to get people to come back and experience something different that they can't get anywhere else. And when you're using these merchandising vehicles, that's the best way to pull that and tie it all together.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I love that uh, you know, how they feel in the store, how they feel when they leave. Um, in my last you know, few roles at Walmart, I got this placard from a friend that was displayed in my office, which was the feeling your customers have when they leave determines how quickly they return. Exactly. And you know, uh a display can play a significant role in like bringing something to the forefront of your mind that you didn't know existed,

Why Off-Shelf Displays Drive Growth

SPEAKER_00 5:40

you know, and that can at times it might feel like, oh no, you're just pushing things. Like, no, guys, our household is gluten-free. And before we were gluten-free, I'm a bit of a child and I love Cheez-Its. Um, and there are now gluten-free Cheez-Its. And if it wasn't on display in the aisle, I would not know, and I would still be living in that dark place that doesn't include gluten-free Cheez-Its. But now, by golly, because of display, because of presence in aisle, our family now knows we can have Cheez-Its again. The world is back. And and that sort of capturing a moment, capturing innovation, being able to surprise and delight customers to me, is a huge part of what ends up happening when you do something off of the shelf.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah. And I mean, it comes down to education and awareness. Like sure. If you, if they're not in the spot to be seen, they won't be known about. And if you know, maybe you're not seeing those ads, maybe you're not getting those pushes notifications when you're near a store or you know, something where it drives you back to like, oh, I need to get this product. So again, like that's why I think N-Store is yeah, the most important part because it's usually the last thing brands think about. They're like, I just need to get it into the door. I'm gonna push all this, you know, whether it be, you know, actual billboards or print ads or digital or you know, whatever method they're using.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

This is to me is the most important part because you you have a you have an interesting kind of medium. Um, you know, sometimes obviously everybody that sells product would love to sell extra pallets. Right. Um, sometimes an individual product or even you know, line of products maybe doesn't warrant um entire palette placement, but you still want secondary. You all will do multi-vendor uh palettes and and other offerings, I assume. So talk to us about that. Like what the what's the rationale?

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah, I think what retailers are wanting, and I think this goes back to experience, is to allow customers to come in and get something different. Now, when you're doing multi-vendors, what you're allowing for is to get maybe a single product that may not be able to fill a complete display, and they just take up a portion of that. So maybe you can now go from having one supplier to eight or nine suppliers with potentially a single price point or multiple price points, depending on the seasonality of the program. And it allows for strong presence and also making it more feasible for those smaller brands to actually participate because that's the last cost. They got their packaging, they got their product packaging extra is the last thing, in my opinion, that they want to pay for because they've got all these other dollars that the retailers are asking them to spend and then what they believe they need to spend. Um, you know, from a cost of execution, this is minor per store for the amount of eyeballs are gonna be on that, the amount of education. Um, you may even get some support from the retailer to you know talk about that in some of their promotion and in their PR.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

But one of one of my last jobs before um pursuing high impact full-time, I was with Warner Brothers on the DVD side back when that still was DVD much more than it was today. So we hadn't quite like streaming hadn't quite started yet, but Netflix existed. They did the mail order uh thing. And um new releases come out on Tuesdays for whatever reason. Um, so Tuesday mornings, everybody started their day in this store, and the first thing you would see was the palette for the new release. You know, it's just um I can think of several walking through this one spot in the you know, the main super center that I go to. Um, and I think I've probably picked up more impressions from that one little location than I have anywhere else in the store. Um, how have uh some of the more successful companies developed strategy around what their in-store, what their in-store strategy is gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Yeah, I think there's they're all doing it the same. Whether they're emerging brands or legacy brands, there is a specific playbook. I don't think that everyone's gonna follow that same playbook. Not every product, as you mentioned, is going to make sense to be in a display. Yeah, right. Some can have it um more and some can have less.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

The thought process is there's a lot of in-store dynamics that will come into whether or not customers get to experience your product, right? Whether or not your product gets to grow a category, and display is a part of that, but certainly not all of it. And so as your view of lots of categories, lots of programs across time, where have you seen people most successfully gain new customers by having a comprehensive view of both shelf, off-shelf, even display, you know, assets beyond what happens in store, but specifically in store, what are the things that seem to really move the needle most?

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah, I think when it's in store, you can do things on shelf, right? Maybe you get a blade or maybe you get some shelf talker that kind of allows you to stand out in line. Yeah. Um, when you're looking at off-shelf, you can also be just on the shelf, right? Like you don't have to be in some type of merchandising vehicle or PDQ tray. Like they'll just set you right on the shelf. That's great, but it doesn't communicate anything beyond them actually having to go pick up your product and look at it. Yep. I mean, my goal when I'm working with brands is to make sure that they can clearly see, see the display in education from that 10, 5 foot, 3 foot all the way up to there. Like the goal is for them to pick up the product and put that product into their cart. Sometimes, if it's a new brand or a new innovation that's in stores, it has to be extremely clear what that is, why it matters to them, whether it's like zero grams of sugar or 15 grams of protein, or this is gluten-free, or keto, or whatever the thing is, that's going to trigger something in their mind to say, okay, this product is for me, or maybe this is the product that I've been looking for that I haven't found, or maybe it's for someone else. Right. Well, I mean, even yeah, like I've never been able to find this in Walmart before. Why, why is that? Like, you know, and I think that like Walmart's really leaned into these emerging brands and taking risks because their shopper and their customers changing. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and they're they're they're looking for products that aren't necessarily cheaper or better, you know, but they're looking

Multi-Vendor Programs That Lower Costs

SPEAKER_02 12:10

for you know good ingredients, they're looking for brands that they can trust. Yeah. And so you see, you know, $10 cereals now or you know, $4 bars, like that's stuff you would have never seen in a Walmart before, but they recognize that that's what their customers are looking for.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

I think there's an element too, and this is just speculation on my part, but so much of grocery sales have become uh OPD or you you get it put in your, you know, the back of your car in the parking lot, it's delivered to your house. Uh, but bringing in new things, innovative things, would be a reason to get people back in the store. I wonder if that's a little bit of a beyond just the refill, the pantry, it's I know actually come inside and see what what we have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

And there's times where you need the instant gratification of having a product. Um, I mean, the stores are by no means quiet.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah. Like, yes, there's been an enormous amount of growth online, and the stores are still quite very active.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Yeah, I also think it comes down to timing and like what what is actually happening within the in the environment. Is there something for stocking stuff or is there something for back to school? Like making sure that the brands know what those opportunities are that they can slide into that are going to allow them to stand out um not just on the shelf, but like, hey, like this is something where they're actually, you know, this is a part of a back-to-school thing. This needs to be in their backpack or this needs to be in their Easter basket. Um, and creating that story um so that they can have a better experience, so they can give their kids or someone else a better experience because they know they can go to a Walmart and find the items that are gonna make it special.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Well, that's surprise of like the things you didn't expect to find. Yeah. Um, that changes repeat shopping behavior significantly. I remember when I was buying vitamins back in the day, before Walmart had credibility in you know, non-GMO, really effective, clean label supplements in the VMS space, having them on the shelf was a silent pass-through. Nobody the customer that was buying organic produce was not walking down the aisle because they had in their mind that this was not a place where I can find supplements that are gonna help me save money and live better. And that has changed dramatically. But the first step in that direction was the terrifying multi-vendor program that I had to launch in order to put in front of the customer the thing they didn't know. Yeah. Um, and at that time it was an operator that that said, I'll go with you, Charles. Yeah, uh, which was critical for those merchants out there trying to do something a little bit wild. Having an operator on your side goes goes a really long way. Yeah. Shout out, Ken Sassey, thank you. And in that journey, was either like, hey man, we're either going to celebrate the huge success that this created, or I'm gonna thank you for working through it because it's gonna take a while. Yeah. Because if the sales rate didn't change, yeah, then we were we were stuck. Holy smokes did it change. I mean, multiples on items where it's like, I know this is a really popular supplement. I don't think customers know that we carry it. It having a two and a half inch slot on in one position in a pusher on the vitamin mod is where it belongs day in, day out. But they don't even know we carry it. Right. And then once it was in the weekly, they kept coming to it. So it's not like they're mutually exclusive. It's like, hey, one of these is to help acquire. And you shouldn't acquire by just doing the same thing that happens itself by having a little one-inch bottle. It's you got to tell the customer, hey, there's this thing you didn't um Walmart carries that they do. And by the way, the ingredients are incredible. And by the way, it's non-GMO. And by the way, it's in a brand you can trust. And that uh that made way more than a month-long impact. Not because it took more than a month to sell through it, but because those were customers acquired into the reshop.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Yeah, and I think the communication at the shelf is one thing. You're seeing hundreds of brands all at once. You're gonna be geared towards the one that you feel comfortable on, the one that you know about, or the one that you've seen on ads. And I think what's unique about what you just discussed is those are extremely complex executions. Like that is multi-vendor pass-throughs where you're taking, you know, we used to do the Sun, we do the Sun Care Islander, yeah, and that program has hundreds of planograms, hundreds of products, over 20 suppliers. Yeah. We have to not only get the right.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

So yeah, that's the giant thing in action alley out in front of personal care where your sunscreen is. Because the side counter, to James's point earlier, can't handle you know, carrying all day, every day, the summer spike for sunscreen. They can carry some place at the right time. But now you got mom, you know, kids aren't out of school yet, we're not doing vacations yet, but they see it right there, and oh, you're for sure picking it up, getting it to the basket. Yeah, and it's by going to having passed that on to my project. We uh we we go through some we use that islander, but yeah, for the islander complex, not maybe to the merchant. That's part of what Big Cities brings. It's not just yeah, uh we make it easy, yeah. And and I love what it does for the customer. You know, I think the the right merchant mindset isn't about driving brand growth in like off-shelf. It's about uh driving customer growth through brands or private brands or a collection of brands by giving them a solution to a problem they didn't know that Walmart was able to solve, didn't know they were able to solve in such a great way, didn't know this new and improved innovation was available. There's a lot of different reasons that you can delight that customer, but ultimately it always comes back down to the customer and how you might help them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

And again, if it's not in front of them, they're not gonna see it, especially if they're not looking for it. And if it when it comes to like entertainment too, I think that like that's a really unique space because not all those products are going to be in the store all the time and they're surrounded in different locations, whether it be in PET or toys or electronics or apparel or consumables, like to be able to put it in one place at one time in a very specific time frame, whether it's a movie release or something that's happening in that

Clear Messaging From Ten Feet Away

SPEAKER_02 18:40

space, it's it's it's key because they're spending a lot of those marketing dollars and pumping pumping things into the store. So if they're not on, like if they're not on the floor on the time they're supposed to, they're losing dollars. So I think it's really important to obviously be on time and full and understand the different levers you can pull in the front end of that, whether it be switching from collect to prepaid, so that you can make sure that you condense that timeline. Um, really uh, you know, getting buyer approval and in merchant approval in advance. Like, hey, here's the timeline. This is when we need cutoffs, this is when we need POs and confirmations. And I think the more brands can understand that in advance, the more successful they will be. And I know it seems simple. Oh, meet the MABD, right? Like get to the MABD, but do you understand all the steps that are required? What happens if logistics doesn't arrive? What happens if the product isn't going to get there on time and you have to ship a display partially empty? Yeah. Like what is that? How is that going to affect your business and the relationships not only you have with the retailer, but with the consumers that are maybe looking for your product because you said, hey, we're in Walmart, go out there and get us. And then they go look for that in-cap that they showed, you know, Jake Paul showed on his Instagram. Right. Now they can't find it, right? Yeah. Yep. Maybe they go to the aisle and find it there, but they need to be able to see it when they're pushing to the retailer.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Well, retail notoriously, you know, you don't have many seconds with a person's attention to get their attention one, get them interested, sell them something. I remember at the beginning of my career, I would hear that you got three to four seconds, and I think it's quite a bit less than that now. Yeah. And then you think about the media fragmentation, you know, our attention spans are getting shorter because of our dopamine addiction on social media. Um, where an old like uh corrugate, it's it's tried and true. And how often do you walk through a store and see somebody standing there studying the corgate, the the palette? Um, yeah. So, how do you talk to customers about you know looking at secondary display, corrugate, whatever it may be, as uh an investment in their marketing and brand building?

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yeah, I mean, it it needs to be a part of that. There's a lot of dollars to get put out there. This is where the rubber meets the road. Like this is the most physical you can get outside of being on the shelf. And I think that that's the reality is they're meeting it for the first time. Yeah, they saw the images on their social, their influencers really talking about it. But now it's the time for them to go find out if what they're saying is true. Um, so to me, a little biased, but I do believe that's the most effective tool that billboard you can get. Um, because you can see it from a distance, it stays in stores for long periods of time. Associates know about it, they may be excited about it, they may even share it with somebody while they're walking through, um, or maybe with a friend. Yeah. And so I think that it's a little bit bigger. And what's more unique is the opportunity to drive more engagement at the store level through these vehicles. So not only can a you know an influence or a brand drive traffic to a display in store, but maybe they have some incentive or giveaway that they can get while they're in the store. Maybe they're doing photographies, taking a photo in front of the display, tagging them like. There are so many other ways to pick up different customers through that process. And I think that brands need to be thinking about it. It's a lot to think about.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Many, if any brand who doesn't want off-shelf display. Right. Yeah. And yet there's a small fraction that end up actually getting off-shelf display. How would you counsel someone who's like, yes, I want all of that, but they haven't ever had it before? Yeah. What are the what are the things that are likely going wrong in their journey where that's that's not been something they've successfully executed?

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah, I think the first thing really comes down to their packaging, their product packaging.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

So some brands come D2C, some are already in retail and their packaging is set because it will look good on shelf. They're not planning for it to be in display. They're not planning for it to be in a PDQ or anything off shelf. So some of their branding and marketing that's on that packaging goes away. Maybe you know the title of the product or whatever now gets hidden behind that two-inch front lip. Yeah. So now, on top of that, maybe you're having to add additional materials or costs because the biggest thing is the cost. This is the last thing. They've already spent a lot of money to get there. It needs to be thought about. Like it needs to be an important part of that process and evaluating and understanding the cost, the timing, um, what that impact is going to have at the store level. And how do you build that three to five year plan with that, you know, because you you want to be in retail a long time. You want to continue to make money and support the retailer and you know their category and continue to innovate. And if you're not looking at those vehicles, and I think there's some really good examples with like Bloom Nutrition, they they I think they're one that I've really enjoyed watching go to market. Um, Mari and Greg were the founders, and they've done a really good job of you know building their social community and getting them involved, but then taking that community, driving them to each of those new retailer channels. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, they're gonna pump everything into Walmart for a little while, then they're gonna pump everything into Target for a little while, and then they're gonna be using newspapers to try to get investors to come in, and then they're gonna be, you know, using normal billboards that you're gonna see in high traffic areas, and then they're gonna be doing in-caps every quarter for multiple years, right? They're getting that space on the in-caps, they're putting that into their negotiation strategy from the very beginning and allowing the merchant and the retailer to understand that they understand. Right. Because I think that's the nether risk is like, well, I don't want to give them this opportunity for them to flop it, and then I look bad as a merchant because I gave them an opportunity and then they didn't arrive on time, or all these complications. And there's so many checkpoints where things can go wrong.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I love that. I mean, the I think there's a lot of people who think, okay, great. I I want to be on display off shelf. I've got a I've been thinking about that for 30 days. Um, and this is the thing that I want. But what you just said is the the great companies, like the good, you might be able to submit a a feature proposal that is customer-centric, that does maybe articulate what a category would do if this were to grow. But a great company is going to be looking

Timelines, MABD, And Execution Risk

SPEAKER_00 25:20

ahead and there's been building blocks put in place prior to even submitting for a feature. And by the time that you're submitting, it's because the right thing for the category is for your product to be off-shelf. The right thing for the customer is for your product to be off-shelf. Yeah. And I think that sort of foresight is well, that can be difficult. Yeah. Retail tends to be very tyranny of the urgent, and you're you're right here. But when you when you look up at the horizon and really plan where things are gonna go and grow, you start thinking about that execution differently.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah. It's an investment in the future, and many brands that I speak with don't always see that. They just see the cost, they see the complexity, they're like, I don't want to ruin this relationship, and they just don't do it. Yeah, right. Um, or they complain about doing it, even though they're gonna get the velocities that they need and the awareness they need to potentially drive them back to that shelf because hey, I got that toothbrush off that in-cap for Easter. I need another one. Right. Well, that Easter in cap's no longer there. Well, now, now where are they gonna go? They're gonna go to the toothbrush aisle, they're gonna look, and then they're gonna, they're hopefully gonna find it because they recognize the brand, they recognize the product. Um, and that's the best type of marketing. You want them to come back. And I do have a really good example from um so Kinder Seasoning was a you know, they've blown up. Like you see them everywhere. 2020 was a big time, and you know, they launched for some reason for summer, you know, for summer grilling, they launched a half palette during that period of time. Extremely successful.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

When we went out to stores, what was interesting, we would kind of watch the shoppers come up and engage with displays. And some of the people we talked to, they were already coming back more than once. They're like, hey, we I came here yesterday, I picked this up um because my husband needed something. And then I actually realized the season I needed some more seasoning, and I came over here to grab this style off your display. If that display wouldn't have been there, maybe they would have grabbed a different product or something that's, you know, maybe a private label or maybe a different brand. Drop those. Um, you know, or even left the store because they didn't have something for them. You know, maybe they go to a Whole Foods or Sprouts or wherever else, because people will do that. They can't find what they want, they'll leave, they'll pull up their phone, they'll go to Amazon or whatever, yeah, and make a purchase right there because then they can get it delivered.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

It's convenient. Yeah. Yeah, I always hated that. You know, when it's like we did all the work, got them all the way into the store. Yeah. Right to the shelf. And then they just plug it. Lost it. Man, we were so close. It's a huge mess to keeping that customer in there. Yeah. Um, I've been told the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. I feel like similarly here, it's like, hey, if three years ago you were really thoughtful about how you're building your brand at shelf, then that off-shelf display, you're totally ready for it. Right. So in lieu of it being three years ago, today, yeah, someone who's like, okay, I'm I'm interested in partnering with Walmart or Sam's Club. I'm interested in exponentially growing. How would you counsel them as someone who's seen a lot of brands in their growth moments thrive and some stumble? How to prepare to make that moment successful?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

I yeah, that's a really good question on like how to make sure that they're successful. And I think there's a lot of deliverables there because it starts way before we even get the product. Right. Right. It's understanding those timelines. Okay, well, when do we need to manufacture this to hit this M ABD? And are there any checkpoints where we're gonna run it, you know, run into issues, whether there's port challenges, or maybe you have shortages once we get your product into our facility. We're opening up, and that's sometimes, you know, yeah, there's shortages. We're gonna add it up there. Or, you know, maybe you open up the box and there's nothing inside there, or there's mold, or who knows?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Like there's sort of not even anticipating the cost of packing out a display. Right. So you can want a display, right, and then be unwilling to execute the display and open stock. I mean, you'll get more eyes on the product itself, but you you might not actually expose your brand to someone who didn't know you before. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah, and so I think really understanding all those things up front is the most important part. Now, every supplier is different, everyone has different timelines. Yeah, I think what separates like base cities from anyone else is the ability to move quickly. You have technology on the digital side and the printing side to allow for that flexibility. I've had a lot of scenarios where brands are like, hey, a slot opened up at Walmart for this half palette. Can you help me pull it off? It's four weeks from now. Yeah. Yeah. And so do we do you have a partner that can pull those levers efficiently and effectively enough to get you in there without failing? Yeah. And sometimes there's a scenario where like they have we haven't even tested a display. We don't even know if it's going to survive. So now we're rushing product to us. We need to make sure they have those documentations. So when on the outbound, they say, hey, we took photos, we did the testing, this is exactly how it should make it through supply chain. So if there are any failures at the store level, at least you kind of have an insurance policy. Hey, we did the ISTA testing structures good. Maybe we need to re-evaluate what's happening at the store level.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

That's the luck that people experience, except you know, luck is accumulation of the preparation. So you're ready for the for the scenario. Those aren't plays you're running for the first time. Yeah. It's just you, you you end up in the situation of solving something quickly.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah. And I think it's also like, are they prepaid or collect? Do they understand that like you're gonna go from potentially seven days to 20 to 25 days if you go collect? Yeah. Now that just depends during the seasonality, but that's a big difference. Yeah. Like, how do you build that into your time into? Yeah. And I think we've been able to, you know, even on these multi-bandor complex programs, been able to change things from collect to prepaid because the execution rate skies. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I mean, especially which is big. If you can take something from a you know 60% execution rate up to a night over a 90% execution rate just by switching to logistics, yeah, why aren't you thinking about that? Yeah, sure, you're gonna save some cost, but you're gonna lose cost if that doesn't make it to the floor on time. Yeah. If it gets stuck on a you know, trailer that's been dropped at the yard and they don't know it's there, or maybe it's in problem freight. Yeah. There's a lot of touch points, or maybe it's stuck in the back, or maybe it got stolen from some you know, truck pirates. Like those things happen. And do you have a plan for it? Do you understand what's required in those moments, whether it be documentation or filing, different, you know, to make sure grievances to make sure that you get paid on things that you may have lost?

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, well, there's a whole journey. All of the you know, suppliers know it of like there's a lot of different things you end up having to do throughout the journey. And yeah, you know, the merchants have a similar bundle of complexities they're trying to solve, one of which is really crushing e-com. So, as someone who's really focused on in-store execution, I thought it'd be fun to ask you about omni-channel. Yeah and like, does it matter? Have you seen actual like when you do a good omni-channel program with in-store and online activation? Are you seeing those results differently than those that are just simply focused for in-store?

SPEAKER_02 32:33

I think when they pull the data, I think there's groups like the barcode group that really are able to dive into some of that data. And I mean, it's the lifts are good. Like, I mean, you're you're able to see what's happening by dropping these displays in the store. Um, and so I don't, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, at least what we tend to see is when you can get the spike to happen online and in store, you trigger that behavior to shift from simply reordering online to exploring new things that are in store. Yeah. As a new product, you're trying to acquire new customers to your brand. Yep. And that most effective window into who your brand is is digital. Yeah. You have to do both. That's where we've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Yeah, you have to do both. I think that like on the digital side, like you have to have your your landing page, you have to show the product. I think making sure that it looks like what you're gonna see in store, not just showing a pretty image, very important, the product without it in its packaging, because that's that's a miss. I think you see a lot of D2C brands, they focus on that. They don't really focus on the product because it's just gonna ship in a plastic bag or whatever. Yeah, and so it really has to stand out. But you know, the data that I've seen really shows that they'll that they may not make that purchase online, but they will make that purchase in store or vice versa. Yeah. And it is education and a touch point. Like maybe they're looking for chips and then something new pops up. Yeah, I maybe it's a better, you know, better goods brand.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Like I think that that's what's transitioning to is like there's so many more options, and the retailers are going into private label products that are elevated. Yeah. And so there is more competition out there, and they do have to stand out if you're a brand going into retail because there's a better, there's a better price. And so what are you what is your value proposition? Is it the you know, the macros, or is it just being able to stand out, or maybe it's just a lifestyle product? Yeah. Like how does this fit within what I do? Maybe I'm in fitness, maybe I'm you know trying to lose weight, whatever that that element is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah, no, I I've it all comes back to the customer. Right. You know, we when we do that really effectively, I think we always find the long-term success we were hunting for. I hope that it's you know helpful for those listening to be able to just dissect some of the things you might not realize about off-shelf display, the things you should be anticipating. Um, when it comes to making it easy for your merchant partner and really articulating how this solution or the the proposal of an off-shelf display is going to drive category growth. You know, you've watched a lot of proposals get turned down and proposals get approved.

Omnichannel Lift And Digital Shelf Basics

SPEAKER_00 35:10

What are some of the things that you see between those that you know tend to be most successful?

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah, I think it really depends on the product and the category. Some, you know, it comes down to hey, their product price is a little too high, so they can only get a certain amount on the display.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Like just the constraint of not spending that many millions of dollars to correct, or like their product doesn't have a lot of markets, or you're gonna sell you know one a week.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Um, yeah, there has to be a strong sell through, especially if they're only on floor for four weeks or six, like whatever that time frame is. They do have to be able to sell through. Yeah. And so I think where we come into play is we're creating those planograms and we fully understand the structures and what can fit in there. So we're giving brands and even the retailers the information to make better decisions. Yeah. And say, hey, you know what? Maybe we should take this from a half pallet and put it onto a PDQ tray on a four-way. Yeah. Like that's gonna make more sense. Because we take the overall because we've ran both cost scenarios, and you know what, it's still gonna make the same impact. Maybe we double up and do two sides on a four-way instead of this, you know, really fancy in-cap that's gonna, you know, take away from our margin. And maybe next time. So that was realistic. We'll build in some different budgets so that we can do an in-cap that's gonna have you know a different impact, or maybe it is a partnership where they're you know, they're they're doing, you know, I'm trying to think of a really good brand that's doing so. I know like Poppy's done some really interesting partnerships, and it's like they're bringing brands together that may not necessarily be multi-vendor, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:40

These multi-vendor smaller scale than the islander. Correct. Just yeah, yeah. Is that but can you make that an easy button? So, like if I'm a merchant and man, I wish I could promote these two things on the same end cap. Is that yeah, easier to solve?

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Or I think through multi-vendor programs, it's a very easy solve. There's not a lot of people that can do it as successfully and efficiently. And I think that that's why we become the I like I love the easy button term. I think that's why we're that way. We were strategically built here in this Bentonville division to support the merchants and the suppliers to make those better decisions so that they can worth noting, you're not visiting Bentonville. No, I I've I've lived here for, you know, I've been with Bay Cities over 12 years, and you know, I've lived here for 11 of those. And when we built this office, there was five of us. Yeah. How many now? Um, a little over 40. Okay. And every one of those team members is strategically in place to support, you know, project management, supply chain management, logistics. Yeah. And these are very complex executions where we're taking possession of a lot of dollars and we're responsible. Yeah. So I I mean, we're very, you know, blessed and honored and humbled to have these opportunities because it is a big risk to the brands and to the retailer to make sure these things arrive in time. And I think that it's not a space you know how to execute. Yeah, and I don't think it's a space that a lot of people want to play in because there's high risk. Yeah, there's a high reward for the retailers and the brands if we can pull this off.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, and you de-risk it. We de-risk those for you for you as well.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Because we're, I think because we're an entrepreneurial company and we're we're employee owned, we know those levers internally. We can play around. Like sometimes if you're outsourcing to another company, they can't do that because while we're stuck on these timelines, they can call me, like, you know what, we're gonna move some stuff. We we're gonna play with the the schedule here, we're gonna do some overtime. I know you didn't want that. We're gonna hit your MABD day, you're gonna look phenomenal, you're gonna be happy, your merch is gonna look really good, and they're gonna want more of this.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Yeah, you know, a great uh secondary location can really drive business, make it pop. Yeah, but we've all done this long enough to know that there have been a number of displays that didn't get the job done. Yeah. Um, and that would be, especially for newer people or newer brands, um, to be able to discern, you know, is this a good idea, this this style, this approach? Do you all counsel at all on yes? Hey, this has worked in the past, this hasn't worked.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Absolutely. I think again, it really comes down to the category because certain products are more likely to be in a sidekick over maybe let's say you're in pet, like you're gonna see more sidekicks over there. You will see in-casts, but they're few and far between because most people are they know what they're kind of looking for over there, but they do have seasonal campaigns. So I think there's a you know, and your question is more like what mistakes are they trying not to make? Yeah, yeah. Um I think working with partners that don't understand the retail environment, they don't understand that like when they get into the back room, there's a whole bunch of boxes, brown boxes with yellow and pink labels. It all looks like yours, it all looks like yours, even though that's a part of the style guide. Don't do that. Yeah, be big, be bold, right? You know, do some you know, caution tape style graphics on there, yep. Giant logo. Where is this going on the floor? What time does it need to be set? When way, yeah, like such a driver. Where does it need to be set? Is it immediate set to the floor? Rush it to the floor. What are you putting on there that's gonna make them know that this is more important than all the other stuff in the back room? And I know that from experience because I've worked in retail, I've worked in stores, yeah, front and back. Yep, and things get missed. They're focused on other things, especially when they're picking, especially when they there's so many things going on, and maybe there's not always resources. Maybe they end up dropping a truck early.

Getting Displays Approved And Set Right

SPEAKER_02 40:30

So now resources are pulled somewhere else, so they're not focused on resetting that program. Yeah, there's a lot. So I think brands work with us because we anticipate all of those different things, and maybe we learn something in a different category that we can apply to theirs, or vice versa. I think it also comes down to you know the creativity too. It's like, hey, look, they're doing this in OTC, we're not doing it over here. You should pitch this, yeah. Because no one else is doing it. Yep, and the reason why it's not there is probably because no one else is asking for it. Yeah, totally. And so I think it's one of those things where if you don't ask the question, the answer is no. And if you show them that you're capable of doing it, you're working with a base cities or someone that understands that environment. Because there's not too many people in this ecosystem that'd be like, they're like, Oh, yeah, we know base cities. Yeah, they that's what they do.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Well, I love the like learning from one area and applying those learnings to others. It's a big part of our strategic placement of we're not trying to just be in one department, we're out of the box on purpose. And frankly, there are some departments that have gotten past the um, oh, we should invest in Omni because we know it's strategic, but we don't know why. We haven't felt the impact that have grown through that into oh no, of course we need Omni. This is a significant driver of my business. And you don't get there unless you're doing the hard work of you know running fundamentals and speaking to the customer through the digital platforms that exist across the ecosystem. And we can end up helping someone in one department that is, you know, frankly, not even you know, front of like forward thinking in another. Another department's like, well, yeah, of course we're we're doing that. Of course we're leveraging Walmart Connect on on search spend. And then some department is like, oh, yeah, you should, that's a great idea. We should do that. Um, because there's just there's a lot of people, there's a lot of different departments, there's a lot of different um priorities across the box, and learning from the things that work really well and applying them to others has been really effective. I love that you get to see it across the box as well. It's the same you know, track around the box, and it's all retail channels, and they're all different, and they all do it a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

And I think you learn from other retailers, right? Right. And I think we kind of talked about that in the pre-conversation. Is it like there are other retail channels that are doing things different? You know, like I think Sprouts is a really great example of a retailer that understands their customer and what they're looking for because you see it when you walk into their forager section. Yeah, you know, you you got the um, you know, the the ketone IQs out there. Um, you got the you know, everyday dose now in there, you got the formless beauty that's in there. Like they are really pushing that type of product in there. And what's really unique is when you go in there, they're sold out. Yeah. It's almost like, oh, you missed it. And it creates this, oh, I want to come back, I want to get this product. And maybe it is online, it but it's a really good testing ground. And I think other retailers should be paying attention to them, especially Walmart, because I think there's a lot that they can learn um from that kind of strategic hotspot because they've done things like that, but not on the level where, like, hey, here's all the emerging brands that we have, here's all the better for you products that we have. And maybe that's a mix of legacy, emerging, and private label. Mm-hmm. Because there are different people that want different things and they have different budgets and different preferences.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

I mean, you could argue that some of the private brands are in fact emerging at Walmart. Yeah. Well, they are. Done a really good job of pushing innovation to private brand. Um I think there's a lot of interesting bits of the future I expect to see there and love, you know, Better Goods as an example of just what it's meant uh for the customer and what they come to expect at Walmart.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Yeah. And another good example of a brand that's leveraged outside channels really well, I think was like be Doctor Squatch. So, like if you go into a tractor supply, you're gonna see an in-cap with their product on that. Was that something that you would expect to see at a tractor supply? Right.

unknown 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

No, and they're doing more of that. They're looking for better products that are going to meet their customers' expectations. Yeah. But the great thing is, is those retailers have such trust built in to so they they're like, hey, if it's in here, I trust this brand that they're trying to give me the right, this retailer, they're trying to give me the right thing. So there's there's just so many interesting spaces in the grocery area too that like I don't believe Walmart takes advantage of. Like if you walk into a Kroger or an H E B, like you're gonna see a lot of floor stands and test products. I don't see that a lot in the neighborhood markets or even in the grocery stores. It's very clean, which is great, but how are you gonna drive traffic to these emerging brands? Like I think those smaller footprints with low velocity, like low product counts, so it's not a huge investment. It ships more sustainably because you have a smaller footprint, you're not shipping as much air. I believe that those are opportunities they need to be leaning into. Now, there are brands that are doing it, like Kenders and McCormick, and they've kind of understand that ecosystem. I've seen um a few hydration companies do that as well. That space is competitive. Yeah. But if you're not planning for it, if you're not talking about it, you will not win it. Right. And they're not just gonna hand it out to you because why would I just hand it out to someone? I don't know if they know how to do it. Yeah. So you have to be very convincing in that story. And sometimes it is there, people just dropping. I'm working with base cities, and they're like, you're good. Done. Yeah, we know them. Love that.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

So when we talked about moving quickly and rapid innovation, we talked a little bit about how you guys are leveraging AI. Yeah, you know, AI is a very interesting topic right now as it can empower a lot of different work streams. And specifically in this retail and supplier relationship, it seems to be coming up a bit more often. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

To hear your yeah. I mean, there's so many tools that are being leveraged in retail to make sure the customers get what they're needing, but also retailers and the brands.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Um, from our standpoint as a direct manufacturer and a company that is a strategic partner for retailers, you have to think about like that whole process. Like where we use it in the manufacturing size is to create efficiencies through the supply chain. So we understand like what Corgat needs to be done. Yeah. Right. How do you move things through our plant better and track things better or catch things on the line when it's running through production so that we don't have to have waste because that's things that suppliers don't ever get to see. Yeah. Right. Like, hey, like this got maybe, you know, the registration's off. So now we gotta, you know, our tools catch that. They know that those things are happening, so we can stop the machine, make the adjustments, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Yeah. Um faster you find out or anticipate a problem, the cheaper it is to solve it. Right. Um, yeah. And so I certainly attend it how we operate.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Yeah. And I mean, it's also helping us on the graphic side and the creative side because we're able to use some of these tools to pull these things in faster. Where things might have taken a few days, we drop a grayscale in there, we drop in some product imagery and some you know elements, and we can get something quick, right? Because there's a lot of these requests, like, hey, I got a meeting tomorrow. Like AI is gonna help us get there faster. Now, is that gonna be the final vehicle we go with? Probably not. Probably not because we got to run it through structure, we got to make sure the product sizing and all those things are well.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

That expertise is is the critical missing piece. And AI just simply helps your journey uh maybe go smoother or or or get to that product faster. Yeah. Um, and I love the way that you guys are approaching facilitating conversations on AI. I think this episode will air before your next event. You want to give a quick overview of what that is? Um, the uh which event is that?

SPEAKER_02 48:27

The supplier conversations. Oh, yeah, supplier conversations. So I mean, really what that's about is really digging into like how AI is going to be better, you know, across the channel within stores. Um, you know, our part of that is just really, you know, making sure that we can work with those different technologies that our brands are using to create better information and understand what we

AI, Attention Economy, And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_02 48:50

can do to better serve not only the retailers, but the brands that we partner with. Because again, like if you're not using these AI tools or you're afraid of them, like you will be left behind. Yeah. And you will lose dollars because there's there's things that that it's catching that most humans aren't catching.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

We don't want you left behind.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

That's awesome. So as we wrap and move to the lightning round, um, would love to hear kind of what you're you're reading. What are you what are you consuming these days? What am I consuming on the reading side?

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Oh man. Or listening, watching, whatever. That's a really good question. I wasn't prepared for that one. Um, I'm I'm reading a lot of different things. I think what someone that I've been really following on the social media side would be Gary V. Yeah. And because he he focused more on like the advertising and marketing, but it's all about gaining attention. We're in the attention economy. Yeah. Like, yeah, and if you're not able to grab attention at every step of that process, whether it be on their phone or on their TV or on YouTube, and driving them back to wherever you need to drive them, like it doesn't matter. And so, like, you have to stand out, you have to be loud, you have to be doing something different. You know, and I think there are some really good brands that are, you know, they're controversial, but like that's that's okay. Like, you don't want everyone to like you.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

It's also exactly Gary V's style, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:11

And I I I just do believe that like if if if there's anything around that, like that's it, it's an attention economy. And if you're not aware that like that's the most important part, like that's just a step. I know displays, you know, maybe sorry, it's not thinking about that, but like that's what's gonna get you intention at the store level. Cool. So that's my perspective.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

Um, we talk a lot about learning from our failures. Yeah, what's your biggest retail related failure? Oh man, not necessarily related to us.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

I think there's a those are the best kind. Yeah, there's a lot of ways for brands to, you know, failure failures are gonna happen. I think it's how you respond to failures, um, and also knowing which one's gonna be worse, right? Sometimes neither option is gonna be good, right? Yeah, um, but which one's going to have less of an impact on your business? I've I've I mean I've seen it all. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the most uh one of the things that really can suck up dollars is when you have to send in an in-store team to fix something that's just needed to be fixed. Yep, dollars. Right. So I think our goal is to create vehicles that are simple to execute at the store level by associates. Like that's the goal. If you can't do that, there's a scenario where, hey, your product didn't arrive on time, the one unit, or maybe it's not quality or whatever, you ship a display partially empty. So now you're having to pay an in-store team, like a you know, an Anderson or a Costa or whoever, yep, to go into stores, potentially, I'm not gonna give you the cost out there, but like they can. Yeah, you got to fix it 4,000 times and let's use their paying 25 to 40. I don't know what they're paying for a store, but like that adds up really fast. That could be 150,000 out the door, and it was a mistake you weren't planning for. Oops, yeah, oops. And where are you gonna put those dollars? Where's that gonna go?

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, no, I think we've uh we've all seen those. Um it's always uh great when we get to stop it.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Yeah, we get to solve them. Hopefully you can stop it in advance. And I think again, like store failures, like on displays, and when I see those, I'm like, man, that partner really dropped the ball on them. Yep. They they did not care enough about that brand to make sure they tested it or really focused. So retail is things matter. Yeah, retail is detail.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

Does that uh hurt when you find out after you you shipped it? Yeah. All right, last one. Um, looking ahead over the next year, what's something that you're excited about? You're anticipating being uh exciting over the next year.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

I think there's a lot of new brands that are gonna be disrupting the space. Yeah. Um, you know, Groons, great example. They just got purchased. Yeah, right. I mean, that just happened, that news just dropped yesterday yesterday for Unilever. So I think you're gonna see a lot more of that happening, especially within the merging brand space. And I think that like they're gonna be doubling down on those off-shelf features. Like emerging brands that are coming to market for the first time, like I mean, for the very first time, are coming to the table with these options because they know the playbook. They know this has worked for Bloom, they know this has worked for Kinders, they know this has worked for Dr. Squatch and all these other brands. And so they know that that's the strategy, especially if they're in a competitive space where there's some incumbents there that dominate. And so they have to stand out. And the only way to do that is offshelf. Yeah. So, I mean, if if they're not, if that's not in your strategy, the best of the best, that's how they're presenting it. So don't get left behind. Yeah, because they're gonna say yes to that supplier versus you, because you're not bringing anything of value. Right. Exciting, definitely something to look forward to.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Yeah, yeah. Joshua, thank you so much for your time. It's been a great conversation. It's been a pleasure. And thank you all for uh listening or watching. As always, you can see all of our podcasts on our website at highimpactanalytics.com or wherever you get your podcast. Thank you.