The Sterling Family Law Show
The Sterling Family Law Show is where successful family law attorneys share the exact systems they used to build million-dollar practices.
Host Jeff Hughes scaled Sterling Lawyers from zero to $17M with 27 attorneys.
Co-host Tyler Dolph runs Rocket Clicks, the agency in charge of supercharging Sterling and other family law practices to success using revenue-first marketing strategies.
Together, they share the playbook for building the law firm of your dreams.
If you're looking to grow exponentially, generate revenue, and get good at business, this podcast is for you.
The Sterling Family Law Show
Real Reason Law Firm Staff Retention Fails & How to Fix It - #156
Stop the costly cycle of hiring and retraining. The “grass is greener”' mentality destroys law firms by driving constant turnover and training costs.
Most retention problems stem from poor performance management and a lack of systematic employee development frameworks. This episode reveals the accountability system we used at Sterling Lawyers to build long-term team commitment through structured goal-setting, regular coaching check-ins, and clear career development pathways that transformed our culture and fueled our growth to a 32-attorney team.
You'll also learn why job-hopping indicates deeper performance issues and how intentional leadership development creates the foundation for sustainable firm growth.
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@karls.anthony
📝 Schedule a FREE Family Law Firm Audit: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
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📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Staff Retention: Why Your Team Keeps Leaving
2:31 - The Escapism Problem: When Staff Blame Everything But Performance
6:17 - Job Hopping Pattern Recognition: What Resumes Really Tell You
8:34 - Poor Performance Fuels The Urge To Leave: The Real Problem
14:44 - Goal-Setting Framework: Building Accountability Culture That Works
17:22 - Three-Year Development Plans: Creating Clear Career Pathways
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Ready to find the accountability partner you need to build your dream family law firm the same way we grew Sterling Lawyers?
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1. SUBSCRIBE TO JEFF'S NEWSLETTER: https://jsterlinghughes.com/
2. BOOK A FREE 30-MINUTE AUDIT WITH US: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
3. CONNECT WITH US:
LinkedIn: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls,
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4. TELL US WHAT YOU WANT:
Tell us in the comments if you liked this episode and what other kinds of episodes you would like to see.
Are your intake specialists always chasing the next best thing? Are you tired of rehiring and retraining because they think the grass is always greener? This episode is for you. I am Tyler Dolph, ceo of our agency, rocketclicks. It is a digital advertising agency solely focused on helping family law firms generate more leads and turn those leads into revenue, and with me today is Anthony Carls. He is the president of our agency and also the co-founder of our law firm, sterling Lawyers, which has grown to over 32 family law attorneys.
Speaker 1:In this episode we're talking about the myth of job hopping in a law firm, why this happens, why the whole grass is greener theory is wrong, and what law firm leaders can do to protect their team from chasing illusions instead of building success where they are. I really hope you enjoy it. I think we've talked about this a lot internally at both our law firm and our agency, where you know, maybe you have a younger team member and they get some recruiter reaching out to them and you know they hop over to some new company with the thought that it's going to be the greatest thing ever, only to realize maybe it's not, maybe it's not as great. So today we're going to talk through kind of five ideologies or theories as it relates to greener pastures, tony, the first one being that the greener pastures mentality is often just skepticism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's usually escapism, like how do you escape from your current reality and kind of not deal with what's in front of you, and kind of because oftentimes there's like there's always.
Speaker 2:There's always two sides to every situation right and oftentimes we especially in today's culture, we overly become victims and like our condition to believe victim mentality is okay and we kind of have a lot of self-talk. That's really not healthy. And, um, what ends up happening is we kind of get sold by a greener pasture and the reality is like all the problems I have today they're going to come with me to that new place. Um, and I really just need I need to deal with me. I need to deal with me and like figure out what's holding me back and understand, like why I'm not successful, versus blaming the situation or the boss or manager or whatever as the problem. And there there might be like there's always legitimate circumstances. There that's the problem and there might be Like there's always legitimate circumstances there.
Speaker 2:But we see this a lot in recruiting, where you see a job-hopping resume and, like you know we're talking sales primarily in this series, but this happens with all team members. This is not just a sales thing. We've seen this with attorneys. We joked recently, jeff Hughes and I about um one of our first. She was her first, third hire, maybe fourth hire, I can't remember what number, but she joined. We looked at her resume. Then she had bounced around. She had like three different jobs four years. Each time she was with us for four years she then went somewhere else. She was done with them for four years. Now she's somewhere else, kind of followed it, and it's like that pattern that it shows up and it's just interesting because it's it's from our, from my perspective, my experience. It's detrimental to long-term impact and growth and earning potential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. I think it probably follows culture. You look back at our parents and especially our grandparents. They were in their job for 20, 30 years. They retired at their first job or maybe their second job. Definitely not the culture anymore. The culture, today's environment is go to a place, hired at their first job or maybe their second job. That's definitely not the culture anymore. The culture, today's environment is go to a place you try and use it as a launch pad for whatever's next and just try and get that raise or get that next salary bump, job after job. But I think to your point. The problem there is you're not actually developing any solid skills. You're not leveling up as an individual, even if, hey, you're getting paid a little bit more each time. There's gotta be a ceiling there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure, and I think it's. I think oftentimes in these circumstances you see people that will jump around and like continue to jump and climb a ladder, and those are slightly different circumstances, but what you'll see more often that's like a, that's a. Those are what I would call special cases. More often you'll see the same exact title over and over and over again at a whole bunch of different places, and really what that should be an indication is poor performance, and it's like it's really an opportunity for reflection, Like something about what I'm doing isn't working, because now the common thread is like I'm in this role continuously. I'm not progressing in this role ever.
Speaker 1:Like I've always been an intake specialist at now for law firms, right, exactly, yeah, that's, that's fascinating, and the, to me, the solve is is building a great culture, being able to grow and develop your team members, uh, you know, but there's, there's just this um, it's, it's sad, there's just a culture of I think it's going to be better somewhere else, without looking internally yeah, I mean, I think what's really important on this you know we do talk about with our sales team, we do it with our all team.
Speaker 2:If you're not constantly trying to train and develop new skills, like you're, you're probably doing it wrong, like there's something off, because if you're not actually trying to get better, other people are, they're passing you up. So, like that's, you know, in a culture where you are doing that, you require that of your team. Everybody grows, but those that don't really want to be a part of that, they'll, they'll often leave and the reality is like they leave because they don't want to develop, they want to just be here, be comfortable. I just want to do my nine to five. I want to just punch in and punch out. I don't really want to invest, I don't want to get better.
Speaker 2:I went to school, for you know, I went to high school and I went to college and then I went to law school and I just want to do this now, don't bother me. It's like, okay, that's the best you now are and you're gonna. You just it's. You know, often that leads to poor performance and people then want to leave because the situation is, the situation isn't working out, quote, unquote and reality is like you're not. You're not changing. Ai's gonna change the world forever for all of us, are you not? If you're not using AI right now, don't be surprised when the world changes and you're frustrated. But that's on you. That's not AI's fault. It's a tool. If you don't, use the tool.
Speaker 2:You're going to be left behind.
Speaker 1:And someone's probably going to have to tell you that. I think that our second point here is that poor performance fuels the urge to leave right. So let's say that you haven't been growing and developing as an individual, as an intake specialist or in a sales role or whatever it is Well then, someone's going to have to give you that perspective at some point. You know, some boss, some manager is going to say listen, you're not performing, you're not doing what you need to be doing, and in that moment it's fight or flight. It's okay, I'm going to double down and get better or no. This isn't for me. My boss is mean, you know, I better find something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we found that it's like all it's all roles. It's an intake role. We've had it with attorneys, We've had it here at the agency with different roles. You know when you when you have a coach that actually cares, gives critical feedback because they want that person to develop into like what they've said they want to develop into Like if you tell me you want to be the greatest CEO in the world, when I tell you all your flaws and you decide that you're like I can't do this, this team sucks, they don't know how to grow, they don't know whatever.
Speaker 2:That's a you problem, because you're going to complain about the opportunity, you're going to complain about the team, you're going to complain about all this stuff, and that's typically what what we end up seeing is that it's typically poor performance, or I want to push this person to continue to grow and it's like, uh, I don't want that. I don't want to grow, I don't want to get better, and really, what your coach and your, your boss, is saying maybe not directly, maybe not as clearly as you want to hear it is I don't want you to get passed up, I don't want you to lose this opportunity. I don't want you know the next best person to come in and to take your job. So I want you to continue growing, I want you to be here, I want you to grow, I want you to achieve your goals that you've told me. So I just think it's really important. I mean%.
Speaker 1:I mean this is you see this everywhere, not just in business but in sports, right when a poor performer is either going to double down and step up or they're going to complain and whine and go to the press and demand a trade. Yeah, exactly. So our third point is more on the other side of the fence. You know, when you're hiring someone and you kind of mentioned this a little bit earlier is that frequent job changes actually hurt your long-term earning kind of maximization. You know the short term may help you, right, it may. Changing jobs, you may get that pay bump, but over time, if you're really looking to maximize your earning potential, it's actually going to hurt you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was especially true in the legal space with attorneys, because what a current firm owner is looking for is someone that's going to come in and they want to grow this business, they want to grow this firm. They want to see that over a season of time that's not insignificant. They want to see that over a season of time that's not insignificant. And that's where you know, becoming a potential income partner or becoming an equity partner in a firm, that's where it comes from. It comes from that long-term investment, long-term side equity, long-term investment of time.
Speaker 2:It comes from that Obviously good performance as well, but like you may you may not be the top performer, but you may be consistently like top, the third, third or fourth best person in a firm of you know, whatever size and but you're always there, you always show up. You always have a great attitude. You're always helping the team get better. You're always doing all the things that actually make the business work. That you always have a great attitude. You're always helping the team get better. You're always doing all the things that actually make the business work. That's the person that's going to get the opportunity.
Speaker 1:It's so rare and we see this both at our own firm and with our clients' firms they don't ever bring in. Oh, I'm going to bring in an equity partner tomorrow. It's no. This person's been here for eight years. They've been consistent and now we've promoted them to an equity partner. Let's have a celebration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I think it definitely, like you said, it can help in the short term, but I think on a bigger scale it definitely damages long-term earning potential 100%.
Speaker 1:The fourth point we're thinking about is the idea of focus. Okay, that if you can be consistent, if you can focus on growth, you are going to win in the long run. And again back to just the cultural norms right, everybody wants instant gratification. They want it now, they want it yesterday. But that's not how life works, it's not how business works, it's not how law firms work, and so being able to be consistent and stay focused has got to be the key right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would. If you know we've. We saw our growth at Sterling really explode when we got focused, and it's because what ended up happening is all of us started getting reps on the exact same thing over and over and over again and you know you work. The rule of 10,000 hours comes into play and the closer you get to that with all of the different skills that you need, because you're staying focused. You're staying in the same industry, you're staying in the same type of role, but you're leveling up your skills. You become the expert. You then learn leadership skills. You then can start mentoring. You then really start to see your responsibilities expand and grow skills. You look and start mentoring you so then really start to see your responsibilities expand and grow. And it's because you stay focused in the long run about where you are, what your path is.
Speaker 2:You're not looking for something next week. That's often uh, especially with with younger folks um, you know, we want, um, instant gratification, like we, a lot of us, have been conditioned now with cell phones and social media to like chase the instant gratification of that. Or even even Amazon, even you know, instacart you can order what. I just saw an email come through from my wife. She put in an Instacart order from Costco and it's going to get delivered to our door Like it's all instant gratification now Right. So it's going to get delivered to our door Like it's all instant gratification now Right. So it's hard to like in the real world when I got to build and stack skills over a time period. It's hard to like disconnect from the everything should happen today type world we live in.
Speaker 1:What you know? Final point what do we do about it? What can we do as leaders of businesses and law firms to be able to kind of curb this trend?
Speaker 2:law firm owners, especially to start with them, and then work with your most influential team members and then work with your whole team on setting up personal, professional, financial goals on a one, three and five year time horizon and then bring those into coaching. Like the team member will feel like you care about what they're trying to accomplish in their whole life and you'll. You'll then have the opportunity to hold them accountable to those goals. You told me you want X. How are we doing on X? You know one of my goals for this year is.
Speaker 1:I want to.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm not. I'm no longer in this period of my life where I want to be a bodybuilder Like I want to get. I've been at 275 for about five years. I've bulked up a ton. I want to get my weight down. I don't want to lose lots of muscle mass, but like I want to, I want to get down. So I track it. It's on my PPF goals. It's something that I write down every single morning in my notes.
Speaker 2:So you know you create a culture like that, you create accountability and you start to see things happen and oftentimes you know that may be the first time someone's actually invested in them. Like, if you're running a law firm, it's very likely they've never had a boss actually ask them what their goals are Like. That won't be a surprise. It'll be a surprise to the team member. You might be surprised in that experience because nobody's probably asked them and then actually had them present. It actually had them hold accountable and we're going to talk about these every two weeks and then we're going to develop a development plan for the next year about how you're going to work towards these goals and it just changes the game. It helps the team members see where their future could be, you know, especially with our marquee team members here at Rocket Clicks. You know I want all of them to have like very clear, very clear.
Speaker 2:Here are my next three moves. Like I need to develop X, y, x, y and z. This is what it's going to mean for me from a title change. Here's what it's going to mean for me a comp change and this is what we're going to be talking about. And once I do that, here's the next one. And once I do that, here's the next one. And like I can see, like okay, like here's my next three years of development. Like I know I'm going to grow here and that's going to be really rare and that can really help curb the job hopping, create accountability, create a culture of growth.
Speaker 1:I think all that's really important yeah, I mean, if you're listening to this, this is not just theory like we have spent so much time and energy in building this goal or in orientated culture, and it's. It hasn't been easy and you know, some team members haven't haven't enjoyed the accountability of like, hey, if you write down your goals, we're going to hold you accountable to them and we're going to talk to you about them. And so if you're listening to this and you want to implement this, know that it's going to be bumpy and it's going to take time to really shift your culture to more of one focused on growth and development, but it is so worth it. It is so gratifying as a leader to watch your team level up and achieve goals that maybe they didn't even think were possible when they wrote them down. So it is a hundred percent worth it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's. It's a small thing and it's easily overlooked, but as a business owner, you know the thing that you care, the thing that keeps you up at night is like I got payroll to run in two weeks. I got a lifestyle that I created for my family.
Speaker 2:I want to. I want to make sure that continues. That's really stressful. What that business owner really wants is someone that is on their team, that continues to hit their goals. They see that over time because then they can trust them, and now that's how partnerships get created. It's actually how long-term earning potential grows, Because now they see, it's not just like raising my hand and saying I want this, I want this, I want this, but I'm not willing to do anything for it. It's I want this. What do you want from me? Here's what I've done. Here's how I've continued to support you. Here's how we're both continuing to grow. You just see it. It's just a different. It's a different approach and it takes time. I think that's part of the biggest issue. It's like gotta be patient. You just gotta invest. Like sometimes I think oftentimes in success people quit right before they're at the finish line.
Speaker 2:You're like the day away from yeah, like 95 yards down the field and you're like five yards away from the goal and you're like, oh, screw it, we're done, we're gonna quit. It's like, why are we quitting? Like you're so close, like you've been working on all of this and like you, you're giving up on yourself.
Speaker 1:Like, don't give up on yourself yeah, well, that's I think that's the beauty of the accountability piece is that, even if you give up on yourself, your team member, your coach, your manager is here to. If you give up on yourself, your team member, your coach, your manager is here to not give up on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and help raise your belief fluid, like I think that's part of the problem, like you have. You have, you know you have really good individual contributors that want to keep going and basically you're going to give them skills they're not. You're going to ask them to develop skills they're not good at. And what becomes hard is that team member is an a plus in a bunch of different things and you said I want you to, I want you to grow here. You're a c at this and we forget what it took to become an a plus over here because we're already there.
Speaker 2:We forgot all the pain that all happened in the past. We would do the same thing with this c plus skill get that up and like where we, where. You see, that is like the frustration of the, that growth, because it's hard and it's not linear, it's like it's almost like secular and you go forward, one step forward, two steps, one step backwards. Forward, two steps, one step backwards and like that's how it should feel, that's how it's going to feel. Um, so being patient with it, getting in that season and just kind of enjoying the process is kind of probably the biggest piece of advice I can give hell, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:This is so good. I'm like just jacked up thinking about all the things we've done and and the journey that it's it's taken to get there. If you loved this episode on the Grass Is Always Greener Theory, you will love this entire series that we're doing on sales in a law firm. But specifically, you'll love the next episode, which you can find right here, which is all on the commitment it takes to succeed in law firm sales. We're diving into what real commitment looks like and how to build it into your sales culture. Make sure to check it out and we will see you there.
