The Sterling Family Law Show
The Sterling Family Law Show is where successful family law attorneys share the exact systems they used to build million-dollar practices.
Host Jeff Hughes scaled Sterling Lawyers from zero to $17M with 27 attorneys.
Co-host Tyler Dolph runs Rocket Clicks, the agency in charge of supercharging Sterling and other family law practices to success using revenue-first marketing strategies.
Together, they share the playbook for building the law firm of your dreams.
If you're looking to grow exponentially, generate revenue, and get good at business, this podcast is for you.
The Sterling Family Law Show
Building Law Firm Systems: From Chaos to 7-Figure Revenue - #172
Law firm systems transform chaos into predictable growth. Stop treating your practice like it's special—run it like a business.
This episode reveals how law firm operations management drives sustainable growth through predictive capacity planning and metrics tracking. You'll learn the legal practice management systems that enable delegation strategies and workflow automation.
Family law practice structure becomes scalable when you implement business procedures instead of reactive firefighting.
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@jsterlinghughes
📝 Get your FREE Law Firm Growth Guide: https://jsterlinghughes.com/
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📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Systems: Building From Solo To Multi-Million Dollar Practice
4:42 - Early Days: Why MBA Training Made The Difference
10:30 - When To Invest In Law Firm Business Coaching
14:25 - Supply Chain Thinking Applied To Legal Operations
19:24 - The Monday Dashboard: Tracking Metrics That Matter
20:45 - Critical Numbers: 30 Hours, 35 Hours, 85-90% Collection Rate
26:07 - Your Law Firm Isn't Special: Treating Practice Like A Business
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Amber has been building new beginnings family law in Alabama since 2006. She has a wonderful firm and a great story to tell. Welcome back to the Sterling Family Law Show, the podcast designed to help family attorneys build and grow the firm of their dreams. Today we continue our owner operator series and we have Amber from Alabama, who runs an incredible firm, and she thinks about her firm like a factory, being able to get the right cogs in the machine and the right orders that she can fulfill on the services for her clients. She has an amazing interview and I really hope you enjoy it. Ever. Thank you so much for your time today. We are so excited to have you on the show. I have Jeff Hughes, who is the co-founder of our own family law firm. With us today is a special co-host. And Amber, if you could just introduce yourself and give us a little backstory on how you were able to start, the firm that you're at today. Sure. First, let me thank you for both for having me on today. I really appreciate it. I love sharing my story and learning about how other lawyers have grown their firms too. I'm the founder and CEO of New Beginnings Family Law. I initially opened the firm straight out of law school and passing the bar exam back in October of 2016. I'm sorry. 26th October 2006 I passed the bar and I always want to do that. That 16 is added to I started the firm in October of 2006. Kind of straight out of law school. I knew I wanted to do family law. And I knew I wanted to do it in a way that was different than my limited experience in working in a family law firm while in law school. I knew that there just had to be a better way to do it. And where clients were not just, you know, the thing that generate billable hours, but they were humans, and they were people who had real lives and real experiences. And, so that's why I opened the firm. And also it was kind of out of necessity. I moved to a small town in North Alabama. Following graduation, because I married my husband. And they were not there were not many law firms hiring maybe family law attorneys. I had one that interviewed me. Kind of gave me a really live offer, and I'm like, I think I can make that amount of money on my own, without you. So I think I'll do that. So I come from a long line of entrepreneurial spirited people. So it was, it was just kind of a out of necessity and a desire to just do what I do now. I do I was actually an appointed juvenile, little fella who'd gotten in trouble for keying a car. I agreed to take on appointed work. My my siblings all grew up in a very different lifestyle than I did. The one closest to me is 15 years older than me. And so I had this, like, heart for helping juvenile delinquents. Really? And kids get kind of stuck in the foster system, because my, brothers and sister were in the foster care system growing up, and we have the same parents, but just at different phases of life, you know? So, so I had this little juvenile. He had quite a bunch of cars. And he was, you know, I swear, miss Amber, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. His grandma swore he didn't do it. His probation officer, because he had this was his seventh or eighth juvenile case. It wasn't his first go around. Was, like, less. And he did it. He's going to tell you it, but he did it. And I had to try that case, like. So I tried it because he swore he didn't do it. And then he got found guilty. And his grandmother was so mad at me, and I'm like, well, we can appeal it if you want to. And then about two days later, she called me. She's like. He finally fessed up that he did do it. And I'm like, well, I think we I'd never done anything juvenile delinquency work in a long, long time. But that was my first. My first trial was this poor little fella who just his life was a mess. And I hope at this point, maybe as an adult, he's he's straightened out. So. I love that you still remember the first case. That's so great. Amber, I want to commend you on, your entrepreneurial spirit. I think it's so, inspiring to see family attorneys who have built amazing firms come right out of college and just say, I'm going to. I'm going to do it right out of law school and just figure it out. Can you take us back to that kind of those early days? Right. You're not learning a lot about running a business in law school. You're having to figure it out as you go. Give us a sense of what that was like. Early on in that first couple of year or two. Oh, yeah. No, it was a mess. So I have an MBA though, so at least I had some background that maybe other lawyers didn't have. And now I always encourage, you know, baby lawyers that you need to go get a business degree or get your MBA or take some business coaching or do something because we're not taught, like you said, in law school, to run businesses. We're taught to sacrifice our lives for the law and to take care of clients, but not not like how to make payroll on Friday. Thankfully, I didn't have payroll to meet initially. It was myself with a laptop and a cell phone. In. I rented office space in the middle of a friend's insurance agency. So he had an insurance agency. He had an empty office. I practice out of that office. I remember telling him, I can't imagine that I'm going to need more space in this little spot for 5 or 10 years, probably. And that lasted, you know, all of nine months before I had to take over an extra office that he had so that I could hire an assistant to help me. And then having to outgrow that space into more space and I have outgrown space a couple of times now, so it's, It's an amazing journey. It's not what I would have had thought. And, you know, a lot of the, I think things that benefited me was that I had a husband who was very tech savvy, and was an early adopter of the idea that we need to have a website, like when all of my fellow lawyers in my small town were still doing yellow page ads and, you know, you got to have the front or the back of the book or whatever. I was like, I'm going to go web first, you know, website, Yellow Pages online. Like, I didn't even worry. I think I got that little tiny thing you can get in the yellow pages just to have something more than my name and number, like had a little box around it or something cool like, but I was like, I'm not spending money on that because I don't think that's where we're headed. And so we had one of the earliest family law websites in Alabama. And so our domain is now, however many years old. It's 2025. So we're quite 19 years in almost having that domain name in comparison to other, other firms that were really slow to adopt that. Right. Formula. Initially it was James family law firm, or J Family Law Center. So at the time, I didn't know much about branding or the idea of branding. I knew a lot about name, you know? And I had worked in a law firm in Birmingham that was the, you know, somebodies family law center. And I thought, well, that would be a great way. At least I will branded as family Law and I'll stick my name to it. So, James family law.com is the initial domain we owned, and that was the name of the firm until about 2014. And then we changed it over to New Beginnings Family Law. Around that time frame, I want to say it was 2012 to 20. I want to say it's 2014 because I started working with the coach in 2012, and we started down the path of, maybe you want to brand this as something other than your name because people work in it's do. They thought it was a James family law firm, which was not what I intended. I intended it for me, the James family law firm. But then people started to assume that my associate was my son, or my brother or my husband or something of that nature. And my that's this is not apparently projecting the brand that I wanted to project. And so I renamed the firm New Beginnings Family Law, kind of with the help of my coach and with my husband, kind of all having insight into what is it were really trying to give people that. So we're trying to get people to do it again. So we rebranded in 2014. So we still own James Family Law and it still forwards on to new beginnings. But because we wanted to hold on to that history of you know, that we had already built with Google, That was really smart. Even back 11 years ago, that was a little bit of a contrarian thinking to do that. Yeah. more of it today. But 11 years ago, that wasn't so And I was one of the first firms that I know of that branded in that way. Now we have several family law firms, and we actually have kind of legacy, you know, big law family law firms here in town that are, are very upset with the number of branded law firm. They're like, you know, there's myself and like 3 or 4 others, that have branded names and stuff like that. Some of the legacy bunch are like, you know, that's just, you know, that's heresy therapy doing. I've noticed that the dental people have, just started doing that in the last 4 or 5 years around here in Wisconsin because my, my firm, my, my dentist went from like, Hanno and Lewandowski, which I can never say to dental arts. Right. like, oh, okay. Now, We catching on? okay. Yeah. Well, the dental industry is interesting because, you know, there's so much venture capital money in taking the taking small, dental practices and putting them under a conglomerate like dental arts or complete dental or, you know, that's a big that's a big push in the dental industry, because of the availability of venture capital to do that. You hear a lot of stories that there, you know, that that's going to happen to law firms. And I think there's a lot of protectionism within the bar association to to maybe stave that off for a while. Was a lot more lawyers in the state legislatures than there are Yeah, than there are dentists. So that's going to be holding on a for sure. white grip of death for as long as Yeah. to not allow Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Oh. That's great. Amber, you mentioned having a coach. At what point in your journey did you decide that you really wanted to invest in getting some additional support, like a coach? I think we hear this, a fair amount on this show, that the ability to ask for help is a key attribute in building a successful firm. Right. A lot of attorneys come out and think they know everything. And, once they start asking for help and getting that support, they can really take off. Did that happen early for you? It happened about six years. And so in 2012, what we've noticed is that in every election year, our business grows, the election year, presidential election year, and the year after, we are always really busy. So in 2012, our business exploded in a way that I had no good explanation for. Other than it just blew up. And it was between January and April, and we were at a point where I could no longer manage the caseload that I had. Like, I couldn't even feel the phone calls fast enough to get them in to meet with me. And I was still doing all my own bookkeeping because, you know, I have an MBA. Like, I can figure this out. I don't need somebody else to keep for me. I don't need a, you know, it was a mess. Because I had bought into that idea that a law firm wasn't a business. It was a law firm. And it's special, you know, and it's something different than a business. And so I, I ran across a coach, and he was holding a policy systems and procedures webinar or a seminar in person. And, I was like, I think I need that. And I talked to my husband, who is still not working in the firm at the time, and he did a lot of operations in the business and supply chain in the business that he was working in. And he's like, no, I think you need these things. Like, I agree, like we need to spend the money and we need to do this. So we did that, which kind of started our coaching journey, which then started us on a trajectory to really grow our revenue and grow our team and focus on building a team that could do the things that I really didn't need to do. Like, you know, why am I answering my own phone? And Suzy periodically when you know it rings over? Like, why am I doing that? You know, why am I still doing my own bookkeeping? Like, you know, why am I doing any of this? So I'm the first bookkeeper, you know, at how much? At an hour. I was billing at the time. So that really was the impetus for us to start to delegate and grow systems and grow policies. And those are things you have to continue to iterate. So now we're in a phase of reiterating all of those policy systems and procedures, because things have changed in the last 13 years. The availability of AI and virtual assistants and doing things virtually like we are today. That wasn't really what you did in 2012, you know, so having you've got to really look at those every couple of years and make sure that they are up to date with what the reality of your world is now. And did that coach kind of help you see that lens, like, give you that lens to look through? Yeah, it was in a lot of ways because he's very hard nosed. And just, you know, why do you think you're special? Why do you think a law firm is a, well, thing? It's not. It's a business like any other. And, I mean, it's almost like a break thing. I think that happens to us in law school that, you know, we we were brainwashed into believing that law firms are somehow special and that, like, normal businesses. So it took a while, but it, you know, in that time frame of 2012 to 2015, we really saw a lot of growth, both in our team members and our revenue. And so when we crossed the seven figure barrier, and that kind of thing. So it's it was a huge shift and change and we've, we've moved coaches off and on based on need. You know, once we got a bill than it became, I really had a need to build culture. And so we kind of shifted to a coach that helped us more with building culture. And then during the firm and then now we have circled back to working with the first coach we worked with. So it's, it's a cycle that you've got to know what you need at the time. And at the time, I really needed somebody who was tough and who could push me on my misconceptions about the law and life and business and all those things. And so. My partner, Tony Carlos, just released the actual blueprint of how we grew Sterling Lawyers from 0 to 17 million. His book is called The Waterfall Method. This isn't a theory. This is our actual playbook that we still use today, every single day in our huddle. The link is in the show notes below if you want to get it. And if you order before the end of October, you will get free shipping. And we're used to you drop the term that I want to double tap on you. You're talking about your husband and supply chain and the firm that I hear you say that right. Yes. Yeah. do you think about I've never heard a lawyer describe that about her firm so. But can you expand on that a little bit? Sure. So my husband, worked for a large chemical company for 26 years, and he left there in 2020 and came, to work in our firm. If you think about it, the way that you, you pipeline work or you workflow work is just like any other supply chain that you're working on in a big corporation. So, you know, a corporation that makes a product has widgets that get, you know, pieces and parts of widgets that get dropped off within the supply chain. And you've got to know when that's going to get delivered to this point. And then how much capacity do you have to deliver to this point. And that's how you decide to decide how to hire. It's how you decide what new technology you might need, because you need to make X many widgets, and you have the supply of the pieces of the widget here. And the thing in between is all the people in the processes that produce that thing. So it's the same thing with law. So you have hours that need to be billed, or you have clients that need to be taken care of, and you've got to know along the chain to delivery of the work, you know, do I have enough paralegals to actually produce the work that's coming through? Do I have enough to just pay there? I'm not a paperless office. If you could see. I mean, you see some back there, but if you could see all of this in front of me, you would see we are not a paperless office. I don't know that I'll ever get there. You've got to have paper and binders and pens and notebooks and computers, and you've got to have some sort of, predictive model that you can build that says, if I get this many more cases, I'm going to crash unless I have this many more people on my staff. And so then what kind of people do I need? So if we think about the production of, legal services along like a supply chain, just like any other business, you can start predicting when you're going to need more people, what kind of people you're going to need and what supplies you need so that you don't end up in a just in time kind of situation where you've got all this work, but you don't have the people to produce it, and you don't have the supplies or the capacity to produce it. Do you, operate off of Theory of Constraints sort of framework in the firm. Does your husband talk about that? He doesn't really say he talks more about like, you know, Six Sigma and, you know, quality and quality assurance. And so not that like if I heard, you know, how we don't have our processes and procedures up to ISO 9000 another time, like I said, yeah, he's very much on time to get he's like I would like to get us ISO certified. I'm like, oh, like now you're talking about a whole project that I don't have time for. But because I watched him do that at the company where he works, like they installed SFP, which is a very large, customer relations management business supply, like, you put everything in SAP, and just watched what a struggle it was to get that team to do that. I can't imagine just getting our little herd of cats 9000. You know, like right now we're like, oh, we use in taker and we use Clio. So we are people not quite ready to jump in to grow yet. Like we're just in manage. We were actually going to go into what was I guess it was like a quarter at the time before Clio bought it. And we were planning to shift to using, like cicada. And then Clio bought it. And so we were like, oh, let's just wait and see what happens with that. And that's years ago. And I still don't know that Claire's quite baked out grow in a way that, I'm comfortable with. So we kind of piecemeal that a little more than I'm happy about. As far as the front end of intake and follow up, it's still real people. Heavy versus process heavy. And so we're working on, on some of that at the moment. But right now we're trying to build out some of the other things in Clio that I think would be really helpful to our team, like stages and tasks and, you know, and we've been really blessed. We hired, a paralegal manager, last May, who comes from the engineering world of trying to manage engineers. And so she and Kirk both very process driven. They're very much implementers. I'm very much a visionary, if you think about, like, the traction era in the system, actually thousand ideas of the things I want to do. But I'm not going to carry any of them over the finish line, like it's going to vary else to do that. And so there are those people for me. And so I'm really blessed to have those in them. Or here. Do you talk about your firm. There's no doubt as to why it's the size it is now and doing what it's doing, given how you look at the firm and how you break it down. So it's super impressive Okay. Thank you. Could you just let's dive into that a little bit more, because I think our listeners would be totally fascinated by the thought process as it relates to thinking about a family law firm like a factory. And I know Jeff, you, you and Tony and and Jeff Kurland on our side definitely have this kind of mindset as well. But Amber, if you could just give us some, give us the high level, you know, like, what are the metrics that you're looking at on a day to day or month by month basis? And then how are you leveraging those metrics to help inform the decisions you make of your firm? Sure. So it really helps to have your own personal statistician. I have my own personal statistician. He tracks a variety of things and gives me a dashboard every Monday. So by the end of the day today, I'll have this large dashboard that will tell me, you know, the number of leads we've had, the number of consults, the amount of money we've collected for consults, the amount of revenue we collect and the amount of, we've collected. I track everyone's billable hours, I track their realization rates. You know, the number of hours we build versus what we collected. As far as what attorneys do. realization I'm curious. Like what's the percentage you'd like to see there. I really want to say. So it depends on the, on the metric. So like right now we're trying to get everybody's hours up. So we're working on figuring out where are the lakes and time, you know, do we really are we really as over capacity as it appears we are or are we just not tracking all of our time? So we're implementing some AI programs to help us try to track Tom, a little better and try to fix fix that, you know, around that mindset. So what I would like to see out of my lawyers is a minimum of 30 hours a week out of my paralegals, I want 35 hours a week. And then I need to see a collection rate anywhere between 85 and 90%, and I'll start getting below that. Then our cash flow starts to struggle. So we know that we've got to get that number, higher. I think family law is one of those really tough areas that if you don't stay on clients about supplemental retainers, because I have yet to figure out a way to do high conflict litigation on a flat fee basis. If I could ever figure that, like, I think that would be the and that would be the, panacea. I don't yeah, I just, I mean, we do intensely high conflict divorces and so you don't know, like, which direction this case is going to take. I could, but if I could figure that out, like, that would be, like, the panacea, I think, to all my ills. But, you know, that You do you do. Fixed fee on lawyer like negotiated cases or Oh I didn’t realized that. Yeah. Uncontested and, kind of negotiated step parent. I mean, we do a lot of family, like, outside of just divorce. So we do surrogacy and adoption. So we represent intended parents as well as, you know, carriers. We do all of that on a flat fee basis. And we do. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Things that are super transactional and structure that we've got clear templates for that. We can, you know, we know how that process works. We know exactly. That's one of the things we're tracking at the moment. Like one of our, attorneys kind of gets outside the metrics periodically. Like this really should take you this long. So why is it taking longer? And that's one of the things we track to, like, if we know that something is sort of take 2.5 hours, but it's taking somebody 3.5 hours, we need to know what if that, did you turn your timer on on Clio and walk away and come back? Right. What's going on? You know, I I'm guilty of it, too. I had, like, something that was at, you know, 86 hours the other day because I had put the time right on Clio and want to, Yeah. You know, it's just I forgot about it. Left it over the weekend. So it's, those things happen, you know, want everyone over. collection rate up there for. Okay. That was actually get wrote that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh, I hit that thing. I walked away and and I, I have ADHD. So that's one of my biggest problems is keeping up with what did I bill. And why am I here. Like please let me go to new ideas, and tell you what I think you should do with it, you know? But then please let me walk away after that. You know that would be in a perfect world. That's what I would do. I would just sit down with my kids every day and have them tell me the the facts of their cases. And I go, oh, this is the strategy I think you should implement. Now I'll go implement, you know, that would make me really happy. So. live grenade. Go figure it out. We've got all the systems. You'll figure it out with the systems. coming up with the story, you know, that's the fun part for me. Like, I like sitting with clients too. And, we're getting ready for trial, and they'll say, well, how do I tell my story? And then I just take the notes and I tell them their story, and they're like, can you just do that for me at trial next week? And I'm like, no, I can you can tell this. It's not my story, it's yours. But no, I can help you craft it, you know, based on the facts. But I can't tell it like you can tell it because it's not mine. So. Well, just real quick sidebar here. Our firm handles about 2500 cases a year, 100% in divorce post judgments, and 100% fixed fee. That's a make. Yeah. So we've kind of figured out a way to handle those high litigation cases, Yeah. way. So, it can be done. Yeah. I'm really curious. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I'm. I'm really curious to hear about that. What part of Wisconsin are you in? Well, we're in west southern Wisconsin, Milwaukee area and Illinois. So we've got about a third of our firm in Chicago, and they're in about two Okay, I was born was not that far. jurisdictions. So it works. But it's it takes a little bit of maneuvering. Interesting. Yeah. And I'm from Wisconsin originally, so I've been in it for 44 years. New London. Yeah, yeah, yeah, at the very beginning. But my dad was always out in the boonies kind of guy, so. Yeah. Not really so much deer hunting. My dad's a fisherman. Or was a fisherman, you know, he, like, a lot. That was his ice fishing. And, you know, some of my memories as a kid is dropping out on the ice in the car, you know? So that opened the window and made fish out of the window of the That's great. am a big time fisherman, but I draw the line of driving my truck on the ice. I don't Yeah. truck going in the water. Yeah. I don't like thinking about it now. I'm like, that really was probably not the smartest thing my dad could have done. But, you know, it's like at the time, you know, I just thought it was fun. or 5 trucks in the state that, like, just go in, like, oh, man. And the cost to get them out, it's Oh, yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Amber, I'm so appreciative of this time and your story and your ability to grow your firm, I love the, the visualization of thinking about your firm like a factory, right? And putting all the components together. We like to end our episodes with some lessons learned or some advice that you can give to two attorneys who are looking to build a firm like you. You've built. What can you give? Give our audience as some takeaways. Sure. Well, realize your law firm's not special. And you're not special. I'm one that, you know, you're going to grow your business like any other business. So treat it like a business from day one. Think about the things that you need to fire yourself from as fast as possible. Like, you know, you need to fire yourself as your own receptionist because you just need to do that. You need to get a good accountant early and, you know, a good bookkeeper early. Don't wait for that. And don't be afraid to ask for help. I think as lawyers, we all worry that, you know, there's somebody is going to say something about us asking for help or somebody is going to, steal our ideas, you know? So find a group of people that you can trust that you, you know, may not be the other lawyers. It may be a dentist or a doctor or an accountant or someone else, a small group of business owners in your community that you trust that you can share information with. And you all keep that information confidential. So I work with a large coaching company, but I also have, you know, my little small group of mastermind people here local that know all the details of my life and my business, and I know that it will never leave that room. And, I think the power of having other people that just walk along beside you, to keep your mind straight when things get tough, to keep you from, you know, getting sad, depressed and dwelling on things that you ought not to, use. Really important. And so, you know, people and processes, making sure you run it like a business from day one is important. advice, I'm telling you. So you're here, especially your first two points. Love it. Absolutely true. And I'm I'm sure we could hear, like, when this publishes, like, a collective gasp across the United. States, like Yeah. No, your job is not special. people that passed the bar exam, you know, and some of the most important people in my firm don't don't hold a JD. You know, the people that run my business on a daily basis are not the people who hold a JD, And same thing with ice. So, A lot of similarities. You 2nd May need to connect off line here. Yeah. I'm really curious about your ability to do high conflict on a flat fee basis. That's fantastic. Yeah. The headline is we've we've break it down into stages. So we'll do stage one, which would be kind of like negotiation. Stage two would be basically when you need extended like not litigation but just like guardians involved or whatever. And then stage three would be a trial stage where it's intense litigation, maybe depositions involved. And we all look at the depositions after the That's cool. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I have taken more depositions in the last five years of my practice than I took in the first 13. Like, I, I don't I think depositions have just become a there were a few lawyers in our area who decided they were never going to go to mediation without depositions. And so then it became part of the the culture that we don't go to mediation without taking depositions. And it's been and I've taken some third party depositions and know anyway it's it's been I have. file. It's mostly. That's what it is. And then the majority of cases, it's like, oh, there's 2000 billable hours or $2,000 a bill right there. I'm going to depo. Yeah, And we have a certain county up north that's like that. Yeah. minute they get like the pleadings are serve, they send out discovery request and it becomes this big, like we're going to spend ten grand before we get you your temporary order. Right. Yeah. I always tell my clients I can either put my kids through college or theirs is you can ramp up the conflict and be hateful with each other if you want to. But you're gonna put my kids through college instead of yours. And I don't think that's what you want. So. Okay. Really appreciate it. Appreciate your time and insights. And, really looking forward to continue watching your journey and watching your firm grow.
