25 Years of Law Firm Client Retention Secrets - #204

Law firm client retention is the one thing that separates firms that survive from firms that thrive — and this episode proves it. 

Peter Agostino has been running his firm for 25 years straight, and his clients keep coming back. That's not luck.

Peter breaks down how empathy during client crises creates bonds that last decades and how repeated clients asking to work with other attorneys in your firm is the ultimate trust signal—and the key to scaling beyond yourself. 

You'll also hear why quick decision-making beats bureaucracy and why the human connection is the one thing AI will never replace in legal practice.

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📄 CHAPTERS

0:00 - Law Firm Client Retention Starts With This Decision 

1:08 - Why Peter Spent 10 Years At Another Firm Before Launching His Own 

4:39 - The Income Gap Nobody Warns You About When Starting A Firm 

8:14 - The Client-First Culture That Drives Referral Growth 

10:07 - How To Think About Law Firm Growth Over 25 Years 

12:52 - Building Systems: The Advice That Still Works With AI 

15:25 - Why Human Connection Is The Retention Edge AI Can't Replace 

16:33 - Handling Difficult Clients Without Losing Them 

18:35 - Work-Life Balance And The Communication Your Spouse Needs To Hear

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Transcript

0:00

when you started the firm that you had to understand that you were going to take a pay cut and that as an owner, you not always guaranteed payroll. And if you don't have the support at home to be able to make some of those decisions and take those sacrifices, you never have the chance to get the big reward at the end. Welcome back to the Sterling Family Law Show. I am your host, Tyler Dolf, and also the CEO of our law firm. Only marketing agency, Rocket Clicks, that was born out of our very own family law firm, Sterling Lawyers, that has grown to over 27 attorneys. Today we continue our Owner Operator series with Peter, who is a law firm owner out of Indiana. who's been practicing for almost 40 years. He spent over ten years at a large law firm learning the ins and outs of running a business, as well as which practice areas he wanted to focus on, and now has been running his own firm for over 25 years. Peter, thank you so much for joining us on the Sterling Family Law Show. Love to introduce yourself, if you wouldn't mind, tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started. Okay. Sure. My name is Peter. John Agostino. I've been practicing law. I'm starting my 40th year. I, live in South Bend, Indiana. I'm born and raised here. Went to Notre Dame Law school in the community and decided to stick around here and, went into practice in South. That's the starting point. you start your own firm right out of law school? No, right out of law school, I joined, a law firm, that, the partner had been a classmate of my dad's, back at Central High School here in South Bend. And, it was a strong connection there. They were looking for a litigation attorney, and, I came out of school and went right to work there. I had Clark there a couple of years, at, Calomiris and Associates. That was the name of the firm. And so I was there for about ten years, and during that time I met my, current partner, Michael Anderson. He was also in that same firm. He was a couple of years ahead of me, and we talked about forming our own firm at some point, and eventually we did. How many years were you at that firm before you guys decided to peel I was there, about ten years. so you got a fair amount of experience and learning how to run a firm and all the things. Yeah. I think what helped me the most, in the firm where I was that, I had exposure to a wide range of cases. And it was an insurance defense firm at the time. But, the way that operated and the breadth of cases that we were able to handle was, I think, far greater than what exists in today's world. So having that broad range of experience, I think, was a key part of being able to move forward with doing our own firm. it. If you could take us back, you know, you're there for ten years, which is a long time to to finally say, I'm going to go and do this on my own. What was was there a moment that really hit you both like, okay, this is the time, we feel financially secure. Whatever it was. Tell us. Tell us more about that kind of point. I think both of us, were, I think motivated by being in a position where we were, in control, had ownership, and, and had an opportunity to, be more involved in, in growing the firm in, in more directions. And that firm was a little more tied into the insurance defense side. And we were getting request, both of us a local we both know lots of people here locally. We both had family locally and the types of work that was coming into us was much broader than being in that insurance defense realm. So we both, went off to different firms for a short period and then came back together. So there was a little bit of an interlude in there. And, and then, then we came together and did what we talked about doing. love it. So it took, what, like 12 years after. Yeah. Yeah, I would say about 12, 12, 13 years, right. In that area. So you, you leave your firms, you come together to start your current firm. What were some of the things that you expected, like? Okay. Yep. This is what I thought it would be. And what were some of the things you were like? Holy cow. I did not expect this. Well, there's a gap between, income coming in and income going out to the to the partners. So you do have to be prepared for that. If your receipts are not there instantly. So there, has to be planning has to be some sacrifice. You know, you're not when you're an owner, you're not guaranteed a paycheck. And you need to understand that going into it. So I think we were prepared for that. And we quickly added a third partner, Scott Keller, in our venture. And, we all, made less than what we had been making. But we view that as an investment into the future, and it paid off. But but that's something that I think a lot of times people may overlook. They you can be making a certain amount of income somewhere else, and then here you come on a new venture and, that there's a gap and you need to be prepared for that. How long did it take you guys to really get profitable and feel more secure once you started I would say we were profitable from from the start. It was just a matter of growing that profitability. So, I would say within a couple of years, we were, ahead of where we had been. So, and so our firm was also growing at the same time. So, your hiring associates, they need to get paid. So, it takes a while to balance the flow out, get a lot of stuff in the pipeline and have it flowing to the point where your associates are getting paid. They're earning money. They're a positive cash flow. And. And then with our own production, added to the mix. Then, you know, things started flowing in a way that was better than what we then, what we came from. great. So I'm trying to do the math in my head. Right. You said you're starting your 30th year. 40th year. Yeah, I, I was admitted in 1986, so, in, in so I'm in, I guess I'm starting into my are finishing in my 39th year. I guess. Yeah. And how long have you been running your current firm? That's what, like 20 years. Yes. It's been plus 20. Maybe we're closing in on 25, I think. Yeah. Yeah, we probably do. And I think, you have to take moments to do that, I'll tell you that. Maybe along the way sometimes we, I think the attitude here is, is somewhat stoic in the sense that, there's still always work to do, clients to take care of. So, yes, it's good to take a break every now and then, look back at success, reflect. But you can't dwell on that. You you're there's always somebody that needs help, and you need to be responding to that. Love that. Is that how you feel? Like you've crafted the firm over the last 20 years? Like, what's been the the through line or the culture that you've been working hard to build? I, I believe that our, number one trait is that, we focus on taking care of the client, whether it's, you know, we have a lot of people business in our firm. We we represent a lot of personal injury victims. A lot of wrongful death victims. We also represent a lot of businesses. We also have a couple lawyers that do family law. And, and, and we also have government entities as clients. And regardless what type of client you are, we're here to take care of you. Help that client the way they need to be helped. Personal attention. And really embrace the client in a time of need. And also in terms of guiding them through different areas. It's an attitude I think of, you know, serving the client. Hey, family law firm leaders. My partner, Tony Karl's just released his book where he lays bare our precise blueprint for growing sterling lawyers from 0 to 17 million. This is the blueprint that we still use daily. And Tony explains it in very simple terms. The truth is, this is not simple to do. Success requires and demands hard work. But if you have the patience and the work ethic to do it, your family, law firm will succeed. in 25 years is an amazing amount of time to run a successful business. Have there. I'm sure there have been ups and downs and peaks and valleys. How have you thought about growth over these last 25 years? Have you wanted to, you know, add a bunch of practice areas and attorneys or have you really been focused on simply serving the client, and that will fuel growth to the extent that you need it? I would say it's been a combination of things. And I think that you'll find that, any business, that's growing, is not relying on one single mechanism for that to happen. So obviously, let's start with the good service to clients. Referrals from other clients. Referrals from people in the in the legal community that see what you do and how you take care of people. You know, one thing I like to pride ourselves in is we we do and have done a lot of representations of other attorneys. So I think that speaks well for us. So that's one component. You know, another component is, let's say accidental, someone comes to you, they have something to offer. You have to recognize that. And, and you can then, put that in action. And another trend is to be intentional where you're out there seeking, growth. We're, a general litigation and transaction firm in the civil arena. So, we we do have some, guardrails on what we're feeding into our firm. So we don't do criminal defense work. We, we're not in that in that realm. There's certain types of civil transactions we don't get into. At the high end, like public stock offerings or that sort of thing. But, but within, a broad general litigation and transaction, practice, you know, you come across opportunities, you have to recognize them. You have to be nimble in terms of, reacting that, to them. I think that's one thing that's helped our firm is, we don't have a very complicated, bureaucratic management, view, we we we joke about our, stairwell partner meetings. So, we run into each other, we talk about something, we make a decision, and and we support each other, and we try not to do anything that, without getting everybody, on board having a strong consensus. And so that I think that helps as well to. great. So if you had to start a firm today from scratch, what would you do differently? I'd focus very strongly on, systems and I would, pay attention to how to incorporate that in with AI and a bunch of other technology that did not exist when we started. So, I think that's important to have that, because, the expectation from the client who's exposed to all that, I think creates, you know, a feeling among the clients that, you know, you need to keep up with the times as well. And, a document or a contract, might have taken 3 or 4 or seven hours to create in the past. Now it's going to take an hour or less if you've got the right systems in place and so I don't know that I would do things differently in the way we started out. But being attentive to what's happening today, you need to make sure. And this is a this was an old, piece of advice, to me from, when, when I graduated from law school is build systems. So, you know, you have a set of documents that you need for incorporating, a company, shareholder agreements and so forth, and those systems in place, if you're doing real estate transactions, have your lease documents ready, have, you know, you're building your forms so that you can be efficient for your client. So that that's I think that that is a helpful part of being able to serve your clients in an efficient way. I think the other thing is that I think is a constant is you have to pay attention to your clients, interact with them, communicate with them, and, just be present with them. That that that is something I think that technology may, may change some of the ways you do that. You might have more zoom meetings instead of in face to face meetings, but you're still interacting with the client. Yeah. I think as we think about AI, it's going to make our jobs more efficient. But coming back to being a great human being, able to listen to your clients understand what they actually need, because sometimes they won't tell you, and, and do a great job during the case are all things that I won't be able to replace. Right. Yeah. human human connection. It's funny how things come around. I totally agree with that perspective. Good, good. Yeah. I think it's important. I think it's also to us, rambling here on a few topics, but, I think you have to have a sensitivity to. How, people in need react to crisis in their lives, whatever that might be. And, understanding, you know, how human nature is, how people suffer through, trials and tribulations in their own life and and how they react. And because you're going to get clients that are going to be upset, lash out, you know, don't understand what's going on. And, it's easy, I think if you've got thin skin to feel you're being attacked, or, you're doing something wrong, and that's not the case. It's basically letting them blow off some steam sometimes and then just, focusing on what they need and then and bringing them back to that. And, and I found over the years that, that if you can do that with clients, they do appreciate that. And, you build a close bond with them, because they've been with you in their worst sometimes, and you still bring them around to the good, and that has a lasting effect. Well, they're going to come back, right, with a multi practice firm if you do the right thing the first time, Yeah, going to come back when they need yeah, yeah. And one thing I that I've seen over the years, too, is that with a lot of our repeat clients, one thing that I hear is, Hey, I know you're busy, but, you know, is there someone in your firm that can handle this for me? And, and I and I like that because it's a trust factor. They're trusting me to put them with the right person. They understand I can't handle everything. And, and it's a way to build the practice for the next generations. And, so that that, is rewarding to hear that. Yeah. Yeah, there's a motivation there. Yes. Peter is you thought about coming on this podcast. Was there any additional wisdom you wanted to share with our audience as we're kind of closing out? don't be afraid to do good. And, don't have fear of, the process and the fact that sometimes things may seem overwhelming. You have to have perseverance in this profession. I think you have to, if you're if you want to maintain a good family life in a profession that's very demanding, then you got to be. You have to communicate with your family. You can't assume they understand what you're doing are going through. So I've been blessed to be married now for, 38 years. I have a loving, supporting spouse and, it's important to your overall well-being, but that requires, communication. With your family. So you can balance things out, and and you can't. You can't overlook that. Because if you're not in a good spot, you're not going to be able to serve your clients well. So I would I would add that to the mix. Love it. It's so good and so true. Right? Like you can't. You mentioned, when you started the firm that you had to understand that you were going to take a pay cut and that as an owner, you you're not always guaranteed payroll. And if you don't have the support at home to be able to make some of those decisions and take those sacrifices, you never have the chance to get the big reward at the end. That's right, that's right. So in in so you can't like, take for granted that everyone's just going to go along with it. You do got to like Communicate. you got to communicate. So and you know, we all fall short of that. I know I have over the years, but, it's something that I think is important for us to parsley remind ourselves on. We have to we do have to communicate. More or less. Obviously not the secrets of the profession or the confidential communications, but just where we're at. I'm going to be late tonight. I have to go take a deposition out of town. Whatever it is. You know, people need to understand what's going on in the big picture. And. And that way, they can be more supportive. Exactly. Yes, yes. Peter, I appreciate you. I appreciate your insights and your time this morning. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, and we'll look forward to talking to you soon.