Tell, Show, Write: The Law Firm Systems Behind Mark’s 5-Person Firm - #234

Law firm systems sound boring—until no systems cost Mark Nicholson a great employee. 

If you're still winging it solo, this is how Mark stopped losing people and built a 5-person firm in the US that actually runs without chaos. 

And it’s through documenting processes, delegating, and building operational structure.

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📄 CHAPTERS

0:00 - Law Firm Systems and the Solo Start That Almost Broke Mark

2:50 - The Six-Month Wake-Up: Why You Can't Scale a Firm Solo

3:10 - Losing Good Staff With No Rules, No Structure, No Systems

3:29 - "Run It Like a Business": Building Real Law Firm Systems

6:33 - Tell, Show, Write: Documenting Processes Your Team Adopts

8:18 - The Viral Natalia Grace Case That Grew the Firm

9:51 - From 12 Years in Prison to Practicing Attorney

11:24 - Adjunct Law Professor and Amazon Bestselling Author

14:07 - Combat, Faith, and Surviving Prison and the Streets

16:22 - Mind, Body, and Spirit: How Mark Overcame Adversity 

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Transcript

0:00

when I started I didn't need any help, I can do this all by myself Within six months, I found out that there's no way I can do it all by myself. and my wife was telling me that all the time. She's like, Mark, you need to run this like a business. you have to put process in place. You have to delegate. You have to become a leader or those people are just they're going to leave because there's no Mark, thank you so much for your time today. Really excited for this conversation. I would love it if we could start out by having you introduce yourself and your law firm to our audience. My name is Mark Nicholson. I am in Indianapolis. I practice criminal defense, personal injury and civil rights. And I started my firm. I started practicing law in 2009, but I had my own law firm in 2018 when that started. So. Okay. So when you started your firm in 2018, was it always was the plan always to be multi practice or did you start with one practice and then as you grew out of them on. Tell us about So when first I thought I was going to be basically a public defender all my life, that's kind of where my passion was. But then there was some issues that came up that made me want to do more in the sense of I saw some police brutality, I saw some, you know, some crimes against, you know, women being taken advantage of. My timing may not be exactly right, but I feel like there maybe in the MeToo movement may have been kind of around that time, but there were some injustices that I saw that I could not deal with as public defender. So that kind of made me say, okay, I want to get out. I want to be able to sue the government, sue these big businesses, you know, things like that. When I saw this kind of injustice. So there was that focus of I love PD work, I love criminal offense. So I want to do that, but I also want to be able to do civil rights work. And so it was going to be multiple. The thing that changed was I was doing family law. So it was criminal defense, family law, personal injury and then civil rights, family law. After a while, I found out I really didn't have the stomach for it. It was more difficult to me than criminal law cases. And so I kind of got out of family law. Eventually I ended up hiring an attorney that that does family law, and she she likes doing that. She likes doing appeals. But I guess the goal always was some form of a multi practice law firm. And how big are you today. How many attorneys. So I have one attorney that works for me and three staff. So that's that five altogether five people yet. Yeah that's great. Oh and it's already rough. But when I started I thought it was just going to be me like I didn't I thought I didn't need any help, I can do this all by myself because, you know, I'm I'm a very pretty, simple person. You know, I don't have a lot of, like, expensive stuff or whatever. And I just wanted to just do it by myself. Within six months, I found out that there's no way I can do it all by myself. And I hired a, like, a college student to help me out. And and I thought, okay, it was just one person. And it just kind of it kind of grew and I didn't want to have any policies. I didn't want to have any rules. I just wanted to keep real easy, real laid back. And then I actually realized, well, when you start getting a lot of calls and a lot of clients, you need to have some systems in place and things like that. I actually lost a worker because she didn't like how laid back it was. And, you know, she was like, I need rules, I need structure. And then that kind of and my wife was telling me that all the time. She's like, Mark, you need to run this like a business. And I like, no, I don't want to be a business. I just want to be like a lawyer. And. And she has a master's in HR. She worked at Walmart for 20 years. So, you know, she's. And now she's working for IU. So she knows about like policies and all that. And once that happened I realized, oh I do need to have things in place and systems in place and things like that. And so now we're at what I feel is a good spot, I may add another attorney, but right now I feel like every the workflow is is busy, but it's manageable. And, and I like where we're at right right now. So. Love it. Yeah. And you know that transition from being a solo producer to adding staff. You do you have to put process in place. You have to delegate. You have to become a leader or those people are just they're going to leave because there's no Yeah. Yeah. Not my my greatest point but I did I did learn from that. And I did learn from it. Tell me about that. Like, if you could do it differently, knowing what you know today about becoming a leader or creating process, what's something that, you know, our listeners can take away as it relates to making that jump from solo to having a staff? So one of the things I think starting off from the issue of your own firm, I started preparing for my firm when I was still at the Public Defender Marion County Public Defender Agency here in Indianapolis, and I was creating my own website and I, you know, and planning out how I was going to get clients referrals, all this kind of stuff like that. So I kind of planned that out. What I would do different, what I would suggest people do is not only just kind of plan out your your vision, such as, oh, I'm going to be, you know, ad staff or I'm going to, you know, jump out of the whatever. If you're working for a law firm, you're going to start your own, but also kind of put some plant like some rules, some policies in place. Right. That that's something that I did not do and I didn't think I needed. But I think to help with today's technology and AI and all that, that it's important to have some processes, you know, some systems in place as you grow your business. And so if you're going to add staff, kind of have some systems in place also, it's going to take some courage and a little bit of faith because you'll never have everything mapped out perfectly. And if you think you do then something's going to happen. It's going to knock all that, all those plans to the side. 100%. I can totally relate with that. You know, we used to think we had all our systems and processes in place. We never wrote anything down. We kind of just like, you know, taught the next person how to do it. And it wasn't until we started writing things down and putting it in a, in a platform that people could access, that they really started to adopt the processes. So as you're scaling, don't just assume that, you know, people are going to understand what to do. We got to tell them and we got to show them and we got to write it Yes, I like that phrase tell I'm showing. Write it down. Yeah. Mark, tell us about, you know, over the last few years, how are things gone? What are you looking to to achieve with your firm as you continue to, to scale and grow? What's kind of really changed for me is I never I never really anticipated. Being you know, I don't know if famous or popular or something. My I consider myself a people of help or law firm. So I don't have visions of having, you know, multiple law offices being known across the, you know, country or other, you know, countries, all that. I didn't really have any goal of that. And so that's one reason why I say it. I started off kind of like the small I kind of just, you know, was really happy with being able to pay my bills and things like that. Well, I end up getting a case and I was really focused on the case. Just focus on working the case, working the case. And I had no clue that this case was going to be, you know, big, as big as it was where they end up making a documentary out of the case, they end up making it. Yeah, yeah. So you may have heard of us called The Curious Case. Natalia Grace and my client had adopted someone that she thought was a child and ended up being, you know, an adult. And then there was issues about whether there was neglect and all this. You can Google it. And but anyway, Hulu and Amazon, HBO Max, all of them, they made the day, they made three seasons and they made all these spin offs. And then and then they made this like TV movie on Hulu. And through that case, you know, my firm like, you know, kind of grew and, you know, people were contacting us from, you know, and they still do from around the world contact. We get, you know, emails and text messages. that it put me in a light that I didn't anticipate. I wrote a book of the law from prison to the street. And I'm not, you know, I'm not I don't have a master's in fine arts degree or anything like that. But people were asking me questions, and, you know, about my background about, you know, how did you go from, you know, spending 12 years of your life in prison to getting out, being homeless and spending the first two years of your life living under a bridge, going to law school, and now you're an attorney and not just an attorney, but like, like a really well known attorney. And so I put. did we not? I'm sorry, I thought, yeah. the story are going to want to know. Yes. Yeah. So yeah. So I, you know, I had no idea that all this was going to play when I was, you know, in prison, I was charged with murder, convicted voluntary manslaughter, and spent 12 years of my life in prison. And I knew when I got out I just didn't want to go back. I do not want to go back to prison. But I didn't think about being a lawyer or, you know, anything like that. So anyway, and, you know, kind of just a short version of it, when I, when I got out, I was, when I was homeless, I wanted to find out exactly where I was going to make my mark and were like, what am I going to do? And, you know, I knew a little bit about the law because when I was in prison, I did stuff like legal work, and I worked on my own case and did what's called post-conviction relief and help people on death row, all this kind of stuff. So I just went to the law school and, you know, tried to make my pitch about why she, you know, going law school. And they mentioned me taking a Lsat test, and I thought it was a shot. And I was like, well, I haven't had that shot yet, but I will go get a shot for this, this Lsat shot you're talking about like, it's not that's not what it is. It's, it's a it's an exam you have to take. So so I was like, oh okay. So I, you know I ended up taking that and. Yeah. Yeah. And so anyway, I ended up getting into law school in the first year of law school, I was voted the class president. Last year, my classmates voted me the graduation speaker. It was, you know, but so I thought that was the achievement. I thought the achievement was me going to law school, graduating. I'm just going to get out here. I'm going to be a defender because I really want to fight for people and and be a people to help a lawyer, and then had no clue that I was going to turn into a private practice and have somebody like, work for me. And I also teach at the law school as an adjunct professor here at IU McKinney School of Law. And now I'm like, people are like listening to what I have to say. And so I wrote that book that, you know, the law from prison to the street. It ended up becoming an Amazon bestseller, you know, and and it's like, and it was like the very first, like, book. I mean, I didn't really know what I was doing. I was just saying stuff. And, and people were like, really like, wow, wow. It's amazing. Amazing. And I'm like, oh, now I'm trying to write my memoir because I feel like there are people that really want to know more. And I just saw your facial expressions and you're like, wow, this is this is kind of unusual and fascinating. But so that's kind of what changed from the very beginning of me just kind of just, you know, just trying to make it in the world like everybody, for the most part, just trying to make it do the right thing and stay out of trouble. And then it kind of just ballooned into like, hey, you know, you are really doing a good job and people want to know your story. They want you to represent them. The the law school is want you to teach there. It's just you want me to be a guest on your podcast? I mean, you know, my career gets better and better. Mark. That's unbelievable. I mean, one, congratulations Thank you. ability to to turn your life around to achieve what you've achieved. It's amazing. You're a testament to to so many. And and I'm sure so many can learn from, from your story. So I just appreciate you sharing that with us. I feel like we could do a whole, a whole nother, you know, episode on just how you were able to overcome that adversity. But, you know, I know we're short on time, so I want to just ground us in the fact that you can do anything if you put your mind to it. How were you able to stay focused and. And get through that period? While living on the streets? And it feels like you had kind of this vision in your head that I'm going to do something. And obviously you're a testament to that now. Was there a through line? Was there a vision? Was there a North Star that you had So. have that keeps you moving? So for me, from the very beginning, when I was in eighth grade, I wanted to be in the military. I wanted to lead men in combat. That's kind of what I always wanted to do. Since the eighth grade, I thought I was going to be a marine, and then my sister was dating a guy in the army, and he scared me to go in the marine. He's like, oh, you got to do a lot of swimming in the Marines. And I'm like, oh, I'm not a great swimmer. He goes to come to Army, you don't have to swim. And so I ended up joining the Army, left eight hours after my high school graduation, got to serve in combat. And, you know, and so, actually, they wanted me to leave before my graduation because when I, I have the there's a date that you graduate and then there's a graduation. And so I accidentally put in the date I graduated, which was not the date of graduation. And so they wanted to take me earlier and I got postponed and say, hey, can I at least go to my graduation? So part of that is why I think when I was able to survive prison, I was able to survive living on the street because I had already been battle tested. I mean, I'd been in the military, served in combat, and then also when I was in prison, I end up, you know, basically turning my life over to God. I actually started when I was in jail. And I believe that my faith there was this things like, you know, we don't have time to get into, but things that happen that I can't really explain as a natural, you know, occurrence. Like, you know, I'm not so smart that, yes, I, you know, in law school because I'm so brilliant and I'm able to do, you know, there are things and people that help support me that to me seemed like this was from this higher power, from the God and helped me not lose all my marbles and be sane and be able to handle some of the temptation that came. Because honestly, some of that, no, you can't do this was looking me in the mirror, was me saying it to myself like, man, you're you're in Indiana, you're black. You know, they're never going to accept you got a conviction being prison, this never going to happen. And, and and I had to get out of myself and say, I can do this. I can do this. And, and and then surround myself with good people and mentors that helped me along and guided me. And but it was not easy to stay focused. But if you put good people around you and realize there are three things you always have to exercise your mind, body, mind, and your spirit. It helps you overcome some of the challenges that you face in life. Mark, I did not think this is where the podcast was going to go today when we started. And I'm so grateful that you opened up and shared this story with us because I'm I'm leaving inspired, and I know our listeners will too. Congratulations on your success on what you've built. Wishing you only the best as you continue to move forward. I'm with you in that faith is is a guiding light and has helped me through, you know, lots of things as well. But again, just wish you the best. Really appreciate your time today, sharing your story with us. Looking forward to to following a journey. Thank you very much, Miss Great being here. It was honor and I want to tell all my friends, make sure to watch. Listen to the Sterling Family Law show I am it. Yes, yes. Take care and have a fantastic weekend.