Ep. 57 - Adversity as a Superpower with Terry Healey

Facing adversity can completely transform your life—but what if you could use your toughest moments to build unshakable resilience and rediscover your authentic self? In this powerful episode, we dive deep into emotional wellness and post-traumatic growth with cancer survivor and author Terry Healey, whose new book "The Resilience Mindset" reframes adversity as a catalyst for radical personal reinvention.

Host Kathy Washburn and Terry explore how cancer survivorship reveals hidden strengths, why both “big T” and “little t” traumas matter, and the transformative practices that help you move beyond people-pleasing and emotional suppression. Discover Terry’s REBAR framework—a four-step plan to build resilience from the ground up, nurture emotional intelligence, and cultivate self-compassion.

You’ll walk away with actionable tools for self-care, authentic connection, and managing life’s detours, whether you’re healing from illness, burnout, or years of putting others first. If you’re ready to reclaim your story, break free from old patterns, and step boldly into a life that’s truly your own, don’t miss this inspiring conversation—your next chapter starts now!

Topics Discussed in this Episode:

• Redefining adversity for personal growth
• Building resilience through daily reflection
• Emotional impact of cancer survivorship
• Cultivating supportive relationships in healing
• Overcoming people-pleasing and self-doubt

View extended shownotes here

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Transcript

Ep. 57 - Adversity as a Superpower with Terry Healey

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:00] Kathy Washburn: I once heard that cancer in itself is not what causes the most damage. It is the treatment that leaves us with scars, seen and unseen some that will last a lifetime if we let them. 

[00:00:16] After connecting with our next guest, I'm actually inspired to reframe that whole last sentence, and I'm gonna read it like this.

[00:00:25] This is the new quote. Adversity is not what causes the most damage. It is how we treat it that helps us heal scars unseen and fully live in this lifetime. That is the influence that Terry Healy will have on you. He is a speaker, business strategist and author of the new book, the Resilience Mindset, how Adversity Can Strengthen Individuals, teams, and Leaders.

[00:00:55] Terry views his journey as a young cancer survivor that left him with [00:01:00] a permanent facial difference as a road that provided so many gifts. Terry shares ways to take control, overcome challenges, and embrace change, and learn the value of acceptance. Weaved throughout our conversation is his palpable hope that each and every one of us, when we are faced with misfortunes, hardships, distresses, and sometimes even calamities, can come through it all stronger and able to resiliently experience life.

[00:01:37] May this podcast be a catalyst to become the better version of you just bursting to step forward. I.

[00:01:45] ​

[00:02:21] Kathy Washburn: Welcome, Terry Healy. I am so excited for this conversation. I've been seeped in your words, reading your book over the last week, your new book called The Resilience Mindset. And I am just gonna start off with. Your bio is gonna be attached to this podcast, but I'm gonna invite you to just introduce yourself by way of answering this prompt once upon a time.

[00:02:53] Terry Healey: Upon

[00:02:53] time. Well, so I'm, I'm Terry Healy. Once upon a time I [00:03:00] thought that. My situation was so dire that I didn't know how I was gonna get out of it after a life-threatening cancer situation. And I am now grateful for the experience and it's been a journey that I wouldn't trade for anything. 

[00:03:15] Kathy Washburn: Mm.

[00:03:16] That comes out so beautifully in your book as a young cancer survivor, which they now have a whole category for. You and I both had cancer when we were considered, what do they call it, a YA, is that what it's Yeah, yeah. There wasn't a place for us back then which was so st. Always so strange to me.

[00:03:37] But now I feel it's so beautiful because it. It, it kind of highlights two things. One, that these young people have a voice and get to heal sooner. And two, that people are living so long after the experience. Like can cancer isn't the death sentence that it used to be. And [00:04:00] I consider. People that went through cancer, the chosen ones, because we get to live life a little more fully because we were that close to our mortality and get to help other people through.

[00:04:12] So Your book is so beautiful and one of the first things at the very beginning that just struck me was your re recalibration or, or re re-identifying the word adversity and you reframed it in a way that I think is really, really important for people to hear. 'cause we all know the definition, the, you know, defined as, distress,

[00:04:41] hardship, misfortune. And what are the words that I just love? Calamity. 

[00:04:48] Terry Healey: Yeah. 

[00:04:48] Kathy Washburn: That's the definition of, of adversity. But what's your de definition?

[00:04:54] Terry Healey: Wow.

[00:04:54] Is this a trick question?

[00:04:56] It's.

[00:04:57] No, I, I would say, I [00:05:00] would say the same. I, I would say that it's, it really is any kind of, of misfortune and I, and I would say that in a way that I think adversity for everybody, everybody handles it so differently, and something that's small for one person that might seem small to you is major for them and vice versa.

[00:05:21] Something huge for some people that we think, God, how could they ever.

[00:05:26] Survive, something like that is something that that they, they deal with rather graciously and gratefully. So, it's a, it's a very interesting thing. I started out talking about what is adversity. I think because I wanted people to be able to recognize something in there that relates to them because it's, it's stuff that happens to us.

[00:05:52] Seemingly every day. We may not think of it that way, but little things are, are, you know, misfortunes to [00:06:00] some of us and they aren't to others, so, 

[00:06:02] Kathy Washburn: Hmm. Yeah, I think what, what really struck me when I was reading how you wrote it, you know, everybody throws this. I don't mean to demean it at all. I'm not trying to, this word, trauma around.

[00:06:17] I've always argued that we all experience trauma and that I've had long conversations with really good friends of mine who are grief and trauma therapists, and they'll say to me, well, Kathy, the stuff that you deal deal with is little T trauma. Like, I'm dealing with Big T trauma, and I'm like, Ugh. I don't, I don't really see a huge difference between the two as far as how we have to.

[00:06:46] Dig deep and figure out who we are through it all. And when I was reading your description of adversity as like a detour that prompts us to steer a new course I think [00:07:00] maybe big T traumas require Yeah. More of that. And then there's. You know, the little t traumas, but it, it's all in my mind. You, you allowed me to see it all as adversity.

[00:07:17] And yes, we have adversities. You had a very traumatic adversity of being diagnosed with cancer at a young age that affected your life. And. You had this kind of snowball effect of adversity over several years. And I'm gonna, I, I wanna ask you to describe this further, but the way that I saw it, it was over these six years.

[00:07:50] of

[00:07:52] 26 or 30 surgeries, that little snowballing effect of [00:08:00] adversity led you to a whole nother detour.

[00:08:04] So

[00:08:05] the first, the first adversity, the big one. Let's first talk about that. Tell me what if. We have an hour, but, and I will sit here all day long with you, but if you can kind of encapsulate that, when you think about adversity, what was it that happened and how did it shape you?

[00:08:29] Terry Healey: So going back to the original diagnosis, start there. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that word I'm, I'm glad you brought up Detour again because that that is really, ultimately what I think it can be for anybody. But in my case, yeah, I was living life that I like to say was on Easy Street. I didn't really have that care in the world, a concern in the world.

[00:08:52] And then suddenly when I was just 21, you know, I got diagnosed with a pretty serious cancer at the time. It wasn't [00:09:00] as serious it would as it would become later. So I think, maybe God gave me what I could handle because I think having that initial diagnosis that seemed very treatable was something that I could deal with far more effectively.

[00:09:16] Let's not forget, though, that at 21 you think you're invincible anyway. But, but I think I was kind of blessed that my initial diagnosis wasn't as serious as what followed shortly thereafter.

[00:09:29] Kathy Washburn: So yeah, so I wanna just highlight at that point, and I love the idea that, you know, your prefrontal cortex wasn't fairly formed, so the idea of being invincible probably worked to your advantage.

[00:09:43] And it seems like you had. Pretty much every element of post-traumatic growth present in your life during that time. So the I work, I love post-traumatic growth. I, [00:10:00] I've worked on it. I've built onto it. And your story encapsulates these five elements. You had personal strength, this unbelievable supportive relationships and very hopeful ones, whether, and it didn't matter whether it was the, the people closest to you, families, friends, but also the,

[00:10:26] Specialists that were put in front of you, it seemed like they all had this very hopeful, confident way about them. And I'd love to know if you, if that's a chicken and an egg thing, it was because you were hopeful and you attracted them, or they were hopeful and they attracted you. I'm gonna ask, answer that just briefly before I go on.

[00:10:48] 'cause I thought it was so interesting. 

[00:10:50] Terry Healey: Well, you know, I, I think, who knows? But I think that if you. If you walk into anything with a positive attitude, I think it burns [00:11:00] positivity to the, to the equation no matter what. Right? So maybe, maybe my doctors that I encountered, my nurses, maybe I would've been treated slightly differently or more

[00:11:12] Seriously as opposed to maybe a more caring way, just based on the fact that. I also try to recognize the difficulty that they live in every day and, and try to be cognizant of that as a patient and be appreciative and grateful. And I don't know, I, I think that maybe it's just the way the world works.

[00:11:35] If you bring positivity, maybe you're just lucky to find other people that can either be that way as well, or it brings it back, brings it out of 'em. I, I don't know, but I would like to say that this wasn't about me. It was really about what you just said. It was, I was surrounded by positive people and, and I, I could also argue that they brought it to me and helped me become [00:12:00] positive because I was surrounded with these amazing people.

[00:12:03] So that's that's something I was really blessed.

[00:12:07] Blessed.

[00:12:07] I honor all those people. 

[00:12:09] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. And I, I thought you did that beautifully. And there's such resonance in there that, you know, Barbara Freden talks about this positivity resonance where you're, you're just, when you start kind of vibing in that. It just comes back to you.

[00:12:27] Whether it's in the mirror neurons of you to them or them to you. But there is this magic that happens and I just wanted to highlight that. So that part of supportive relationships, I saw that element of post-traumatic growth, the appreciate appreciation of life and this purpose like and we'll talk about this in this.

[00:12:53] Snowball adversity of yours, but the idea of [00:13:00] kind of finding purpose in life after, you know, I, when you talk about your, that first job that you had where you just kind of were able to throw yourself into something else that was not you. Some other thing that's part of post-traumatic growth is, is repurposing that.

[00:13:22] Energy towards something different. And I saw that beautiful, the beautiful way that you did that and. That appreciation of life, that gratitude, I don't think that comes naturally to a lot of people and certainly not in age 2021. So there's something innately about your ability to show appreciation and gratitude.

[00:13:48] Again, that was present that they say that if these things are present in you, then you are able to. Access that post-traumatic growth [00:14:00] while in a moment of trauma or adversity, like these things seemed innate in you. The other one is the spiritual element, that element of faith, which weaves through your story on so many different levels.

[00:14:16] But would that, does that fair to say that you had all of these post-traumatic growth elements kind of in and around you during that first. Diagnosis. Yeah. 

[00:14:28] Terry Healey: Yeah. I, I would say definitely I give my, my faith huge credit here too, right? Because that was just something that I had a foundation of my whole life.

[00:14:40] You know, I was raised that way and it really was something that I gained strength from. It wasn't, it was sort of my own way of having faith that, you know, I pray every day. Part of it is prayer, part of it is being grateful. But yeah, I just gained tremendous strength from that. And I was fortunate that I was able to then maybe the [00:15:00] appreciation for life.

[00:15:00] You know, again, I don't, I don't wanna say that I had all these elements that, that were just innate. I don't know. I, my life was pretty easy too, going into this. So. I, I have to always step back and remind myself, you know, other people are in far more difficult situations when they enter maybe a picture like that.

[00:15:20] And the fact that, that I didn't have really responsibilities at the age of 21. Think about it, right? I mean, I, I really didn't, I didn't have a wife, I didn't have kids. I didn't have anything I had to do. I didn't have to feed anybody else. Mm-hmm. So.

[00:15:38] So.

[00:15:39] That's, that's something that I was blessed with because if the same thing happened to me at, at 50, it would be different.

[00:15:46] Right. It would be a very different set of circumstances. So, but I was yeah, it was very, I was lucky in many ways. 

[00:15:53] Kathy Washburn: Mm. So after the initial initial diagnosis and [00:16:00] then you had another. Another level, like you got through that first part, and then tell me what happened. 

[00:16:11] Terry Healey: Yeah, so that first part, the only kind of cons concerning thing to me was how long it took to get the diagnosis.

[00:16:20] So this was clearly not something that was a typical type of tumor. So I did have a fibro sarcoma, which is incredibly rare. Sarcomas are pretty rare. And they tend to recur when they recur pretty quickly, in my case, six months later. So I had fallen right back into my old world of, you know, life's easy and everything.

[00:16:42] And then I started to feel tingling sensations in my cheek and, and went back to the doctor and that's when everything changed and became far more serious. And so, it was a significant recurrence. That I wasn't really aware had [00:17:00] happened. It was growing kind of all underneath my, my cheek. And so, long story short is yeah, I, I ended up having a 10 and a half hour procedure and I woke up, with half i, half my nose had been removed the shelf of my right eye, the muscle and the bone from my right cheek part on my upper lip, part on my hard palate, six of my teeth. And I woke up attached to my chest, which was the weirdest part because they, there was such a huge cavity in my cheek. They had the transplant tissue in the form of a full thickness skin, RAF to, to let it build its own blood supply over time.

[00:17:37] So I. I went from normal to elephant man overnight.

[00:17:42] Hmm.

[00:17:43] But to answer, kind of just to finish there, at that time the concern was my cancer. And I was very hopeful. My doctors were very hopeful. They exuded positive energy. They told me they would get me back to who I was. So my concern [00:18:00] was really about my cancer and not the disfigurement that had suddenly become part of who I was.

[00:18:06] Mm.

[00:18:07] Kathy Washburn: Hmm.

[00:18:09] Yeah. It's so interesting. I've heard cancer described as

[00:18:15] I can't

[00:18:15] remember who shared this with me. It was a psychotherapist that works with cancer survivors, and they say that it's not the cancer. That causes the problems. It's the treatment that creates the scarring both inside and outside that we have to deal with for a lifetime.

[00:18:42] And

[00:18:43] experienced that going for a long time. You had multiple surgeries after, right? 

[00:18:50] Terry Healey: Yeah. 

[00:18:52] Kathy Washburn: So it, that process, yeah, that's that snowball process of like the little things that start to build [00:19:00] about that scarring. And you re, you refer to this in your book, and I've experienced this myself. It's like the scars that you can see almost fade away, but the scars that you can't see are the most challenging.

[00:19:22] Terry Healey: Absolutely. Do you want me to kind of share on, on that 

[00:19:27] Kathy Washburn: Yes. My thoughts 

[00:19:28] Terry Healey: around that? Yeah, so I, I went through a phase where it was all about getting me back to who I was looking the way I, I looked before because most of these surgeons and specialists I went to believed that they could truly get me back.

[00:19:48] Maybe that was a, a, a lucky thing for me because it gave me hope. Hmm. But there was a common thread that I wasn't really listening to, which was that my situation, my [00:20:00] case was incredibly complex and I would hear that over and over again. And it really took this event where I had, God, I had had. I don't know, 20 reconstructive surgeon maybe even more by this point.

[00:20:16] And I was in a hospital in, in Chicago, having the sixth and final procedure just to make my nose symmetrical again. So set aside the eye, set aside the mouth of the lip, the cheek, all that stuff. This was just to do that. This was a specialist just focused on the nose. And I, I met this girl in the hospital who was truly an angel because.

[00:20:40] She took this interest in me, which I couldn't understand, and that was a sign right there, right? Like why would, why would anybody be interested in me? But long story short, as we started to see each other, but at, at some point after we spent a weekend together, she looked at me and she just [00:21:00] said, you know, Terry, you have a lot of issues that I can't help you with.

[00:21:06] You need constant reassurance, and I can't give that to you. And that's really to your point, that's what she taught me really, was that the scars on the inside had become so much more disfiguring than the scars ever were on the outside. It really wasn't my physical appearance, it was my issue. It was my person that had become the issue.

[00:21:27] And of course, that was devastating. Kathy, I mean. I, I don't wanna minimize that part of it, right? I mean, it's not like I just bounced back and said, okay, you know, I'm gonna move on to the next phase of my life. No, I mean, I had to step back and really reflect and think about things, but I ultimately became grateful for the fact that she exposed my weaknesses and help me recognize what they were, and that I needed to take a different course.

[00:21:56] And so that's what I did.

[00:21:58] [00:22:00] did. 

[00:22:00] Kathy Washburn: I just find that moment and, and you say the quote in your book is, it took a, a long time for me to become content with who I was as a person, and it just gives me goosebumps because I think people spend a lifetime trying to figure that out. And again, like cancer as a. As a catalyst to help you with that at you were, how old were you when that happened?

[00:22:31] Terry Healey: When, when I met this woman? 

[00:22:32] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. 

[00:22:33] Terry Healey: So that was 1991. So let's say 27. 

[00:22:38] Kathy Washburn: So you're 27 years old and you have the, I don't even know you, I want you to put the word in there. You have the X. To seek out support, not from the people that you know and around you, but seek out Thera therapeutic support and crazy that you found this [00:23:00] place called Cancer Support Community, where I speak a lot and that combination is also this crazy thing.

[00:23:07] I'm like, what it was, I didn't realize it had started back then. I knew it was a old, it had a longevity to it, but you found a cancer support community where you could open up, speak the things that, the fears, the insecurities in a safe place. Like what did that do for you at age 27? 

[00:23:34] Terry Healey: Yeah, I mean, I think.

[00:23:36] You know, we talked a little bit about the support I had with my friends and family, which is incredibly lucky to have, and I'm grateful for that. But they also will tell you what you want to hear a lot of times, and sometimes those conversations that you want to have about, you know, your own vulnerabilities.

[00:23:58] I, I guess I, I felt like I had to be [00:24:00] a tough guy too, with my family. Oh, I'm tough, you know, I'll get through this. And therapy and support were not big things in my family. That wasn't really something that, you know, you would be encouraged to do because that was for people with problems. Right. You don't have a problem.

[00:24:18] Exactly. But the fact was I had a huge problem to deal with. But yeah, so I think it, it, it opened up a holy world to me where I could share my honest feelings and my. Vulnerabilities in a way that I don't think I had ever been able to do before. And so that was, that was really life changing. That's when I started to, you know, move forward for the fir You know, it's not that I hadn't moved forward at all, but I talked a lot about two steps forward, one step back or two steps back, one step forward.

[00:24:51] This was definitely two forward and, and so, that became so instrumental in my healing. 

[00:24:59] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, [00:25:00] I was I was reading that I had tears in my eyes 'cause I remember they had sent me to therapy. And the first group therapy and like you. Even like I didn't grow up in that you would go get a therapist Now, anybody I talk to, I'm like, what do you mean you don't have a therapist?

[00:25:20] Go get yourself a therapist. We can all use a therapist or a life coach. But I went to my first group therapy and my cancer was normally an older women's disease. So, people are in their seventies. So I go into these groups and in hindsight, you know, it's kind of like a bad yoga teacher. I had a, I had a bad support group person that was running it that just kind of, yeah, that just kind of let it get outta control.

[00:25:51] So it was very depressing. I would leave there and think, oh my God, this is awful. 'cause one person would be allowed to. To [00:26:00] just go on and on about their terrible, awful life. And I, I, I maybe in a Pollyanna kind of way, like, no, I don't want that to be me. So I stopped going to it, but I didn't find any alternative either.

[00:26:15] So for years I just suffered silently and like you showing up for my family like, oh no, I'm fine. I now know. The definition of fine. I don't know if you've ever heard that, but it's it stands for effed up insecure n neuro what's the n word? Neurotic

[00:26:39] and

[00:26:40] and emotional.

[00:26:41] emotional.

[00:26:42] Terry Healey: No, that's, that's really.

[00:26:44] I've not heard that. That's great. 

[00:26:46] Kathy Washburn: And it's quite fitting, right? So when anybody ever says to me they're fine, I'm like, really? Really? How? How are you really? Oh,

[00:26:54] Yeah.

[00:26:54] but I went through life that way. Like, okay, I'm just gonna be back to normal, put my big [00:27:00] smiley face on and just grind through. But inside, man, I did not feel fine.

[00:27:08] And it wasn't until my fifties when I got divorced that. All of that just blew open this.

[00:27:18] That

[00:27:18] was the catalyst for me to finally get therapy and the help that I needed. But if you're listening to this, go find yourself a therapist. Like we could all use an outside voice where we or an outside somebody, a guide, a mentor, a somebody, even if it's a good.

[00:27:41] Friend or somebody we don't know at all, that we can just share and give air to these things inside. 

[00:27:50] Terry Healey: Yeah. And, and you know, probably why, so it became the cancer support community. 

[00:27:56] Kathy Washburn: Come on. 

[00:27:57] Terry Healey: It, when I initially found it was called the Wellness Community. [00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, that's what you meant, sir. 

[00:28:02] Terry Healey: Yeah, I don't remember whether I said that.

[00:28:03] Yeah, people, people always get confused. It's like I mentioned the wellness community. They go, wait a second, what was the wellness community? What was the cancer sports community? So yeah, it evolved, but man, it's to your point, finding, finding something was hard enough. They had literally just started a chapter in the San Francisco Bay area in 1991.

[00:28:21] So I was just, again, it was like this weird thing that was happening. And so I've been involved with them for. Had since 1991, so whatever that is. Wow. A lot of years. Wow. Yeah. So I still work with them really closely and that particular chapter I should say. But 

[00:28:38] Kathy Washburn: what a gift though at age 27 to start building these you know, adding tools to your toolbox and building this way of being that.

[00:28:50] And you've come up with this beautiful, acronym. You call it rebar or is that Rebar? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And I, I love the [00:29:00] rebar reference. To me that's steel. And I talk in my book that will someday come out. I talk about this. Catalyzing story for me that some that I have been told, not once, but twice, that I had the strength of steel and the first time it was coming out of a conference room.

[00:29:22] I worked at this investment company and I really was holding my ground in this, let's say it was a heated conversation with a client and the owner of the company who I helped start the business. He was in the room and there was something that he felt really strongly about that I didn't feel so strongly about.

[00:29:44] In fact, didn't really support it, but I, at that time, my whole world was very others directed. So I wasn't following my own intuition at all, but I was, I would. [00:30:00] Stand up for somebody else's values and needs in a way that was probably a little strange. So when I was coming out of the conference room, my coworker said to me, dang, Kathy, you have strength of steel.

[00:30:15] And as I crossed the threshold into the trading room, I thought, I don't wanna have strength as, yeah. You know, like that's not even, that's not a good thing. That means it's. Rigid and cold. And, and I felt like that was kind of my, my mo this rigidity and control and coldness and it, it was very, it, it kind of planted this seed in me of dissonance, like, I am not comfortable anymore with me rubbing against.

[00:30:52] Who, who I think I am inside because I'm trying to please other people. It was just the beginning and then fast [00:31:00] forward after my divorce and I learned about esque psychology and personal strengths and way to build up and really find out what my own personal values were. And some of these things that you talk about, like changing old habitual patterns.

[00:31:18] Some my lawyer. After we would come outta these mediation meetings, he's like, wow, you have the strength of steel. And I thought, this one I'm proud of. But in the middle of that, I feel like, especially after my first diagnosis of cancer, that. Like the three little pigs. I just threw up this new house made of sticks.

[00:31:44] And so every single time something hard happened that wolf like huffed and puffed, it was really hard for me to get back. But then as I've built this new toolbox after the [00:32:00] wolf, like really tore it down right down to the there was nothing left. I've been putting this foundation like, and then building the scaffolding, or in your words, this rebar.

[00:32:13] And I love this idea of these foundational practices. So I know that you wrote a whole book about it and I'm gonna ask you to kinda summarize your rebar, the four steps, and just to bring about how we can build resiliency. So that we can face challenges. 

[00:32:35] Terry Healey: Yeah. And, and that's interesting. Steel, you know, I think of it as strength, but yeah, the resilience.

[00:32:41] So I talk a lot about sort of the road to resilience and, you know, I think everybody has the capacity to build resilience. We learn to adapt, we recover from our setbacks and, you know, we grow a lot stronger because of our experiences as, as we're talking about. And so. As I started to [00:33:00] formulate my own toolkit words that you're using I started to document things over time, but I, I came up with this idea that worked for me and I thought, because I was speaking about it to different groups and people would say, well, yeah, I read your memoir, but you don't talk about any of this stuff in there.

[00:33:20] You need to write another book. So ultimately that's what came out of it, but. There's really, it's really the a framework or a blueprint for other people to use when they're dealing with any kind of challenge in life. It's not cancer specific, obviously. And the idea is that it can help you with that.

[00:33:38] It can help you gain confidence, find purpose. And so I think of it, and I'll go really quickly through the four phases. The four phases are reflect, build. Act and renew and re and reflect. That first phase is really about finding that five to 10 minutes every day to just step back and think about, [00:34:00] do an audit of your day and start by with gratitude, because that always puts you in a more positive place.

[00:34:06] There's always a million things to be gracious for. And then reflect on your day and think about what what transpired. Did I learn anything? Was I inspired by anything today? Is there something that I wanna try tomorrow because of that? So that's reflect The next phase Bill is really about developing this positive mindset, this growth mindset.

[00:34:25] This is when we really identify our support team. We're the people we want to have around us. We focus on like balance. We gotta take care of ourselves, and we focus on having a positive attitude. And with those, those elements, I think we can navigate life's challenges. Far more effectively act. The third phase is really where the rubber meets the road.

[00:34:47] And this is when we start to face our challenges head on. It's when we start to take control of our life and it's when we get really focused. And I, and I like to say goal oriented and I don't mean that to sound in a [00:35:00] way that doesn't seem. So some people that might seem rigid or something, but I, I really do believe that when we get focused and goal oriented, there's amazing things that we can achieve.

[00:35:11] If we can focus on a singular thing at a time, don't have, if you have too many priorities or goals, you have none, right? And then lastly. Renew is really the reinforcement of the whole process, and that's really when we reevaluate, we reassess and we rethink what we went through. It's the time to step back and learn about ourselves, but really two things left here I would say would be to celebrate.

[00:35:37] Take the time to celebrate your wins as I would say. And then, also think about what characteristics and traits did I have that helped me to get through this? 'cause let's face it, if you, if you're in the renew phase, you're, you survived this, this situation, this adversity, this misfortune. So there's reasons you survived it.

[00:35:59] [00:36:00] Capture that, that take time to think about how to become the best version of yourself going forward. So in a nutshell, that's. Kinda what it's all about. 

[00:36:08] Kathy Washburn: Mm. It's such a beautiful gift to give yourself because it really, in this world where we're just like darting in 4,000 directions taking time to really connect with ourselves and be on our own side.

[00:36:25] And, you know, listen to what. Our own intuition is telling y'all, like, so we're so disconnected from ourselves. And that's what I love about the, the whole impetus behind positive psychology to focus on what is going right and what is well within you as a human versus focusing on all the stuff that you suck at.

[00:36:54] I, I

[00:36:54] just find it so fascinating, like where it must have turned or [00:37:00] how it must have turned that way if it has a Mad Men effect to it, where it was all about consumerism and and selling. Is that how it happened or was it. You know, when we started school, most of our schools in America were created to funnel us into factories.

[00:37:18] So they were requiring us to be the same. So anything outside of sameness wasn't looked upon favorably. If you didn't, you know, that's why we had the big desk in the front and we all moved like a big amoeba. If there was one straggling out there that did not get rewarded, you're like, you get back in line.

[00:37:39] So I don't know where it started, but this invitation that we can now give us this gift every day of creating this rebar, and you say that you build it into your daily routine. It's just muscle memory for you. It's how you move. It seems a little daunting for most people. Like, gosh, where do I even [00:38:00] start?

[00:38:00] How do I even do that? Can you kind of take us through one of your days where those things are weaved? Yeah. Throughout up. 

[00:38:09] Terry Healey: Yeah. So before the podcast, you and I talked about dogs and how we built our dog love as well. I, I'd probably reflect a little bit more than once a day because I typically, I'll go out with my dog on a walk, and that's when I reflect, because it's time.

[00:38:24] When I'm away from my desk. There's no, there's no real distractions. I don't listen to podcasts. I mean, I, I have, but when I'm walking, that's really time to reflect. And these are not long walks. These are, you know. 30 minute walk. So I spend my time doing that and thinking about my day and being grateful.

[00:38:42] And I do that in the morning. So that's, I think, important to start your day with gratitude. Mm-hmm. I also do it at night. When I lay down in bed and I think about what transpired. There isn't always something huge that happens every day, but if you're not in the practice, I think sometimes you might miss it.

[00:38:59] [00:39:00] Right. I, all of us struggle with. Daily challenges and relationship issues and you name it. Right? And so we when I think about the build phase, I think we really have to try to focus on having that positive attitude and looking at the bright side, getting away from negative self-talk and focusing on positive self-talk.

[00:39:26] So, you know, I, I, I, I am far from perfect, right? That's why I have this framework to follow. That's kind of where the build part works. And I think the whole support system thing can evolve too. There's new people that are our lives and there's people that disappoint us in different ways that don't bring us positive energy.

[00:39:44] So sometimes those need to change too, and that can be difficult. But it's important. So you deal with that as, as you need to. And then I, I've just always been somebody that's goal oriented. So when you get to the fact [00:40:00] the act phase. You know, I've always got some kind of a goal for what I'm trying to achieve and that I've just learned over time that when I achieve one, it gives me that much more confidence to face the next one.

[00:40:12] But I really, I'll tell you just a, a quick side note. You and I worked in corporate America and we worked for corporations and, and oftentimes you would have this, oh, it's the new year, let's have our 10 New Year's resolutions. And I would just go, oh, no. Like, what am I gonna come up with? 10 things? Like, lemme come up with one.

[00:40:34] So that's, that's really important to me. Don't cloud yourself with all this stuff. Just focus on something and try to make progress every day at it. Mm. And then the renew. Yeah. I mean, I. I do try to celebrate. I try to celebrate successes along the way and I think that really helps us feel better about ourselves.

[00:40:54] You know, for example, I played golf with my wife yesterday. I played terrible. I [00:41:00] was all bummed out, you know, God, I played terrible. So I had this, you know, I got home and I had to think about, okay, what am I grateful for? What went well? What can I celebrate? There's always something else. I gotta set that one aside and think, is that something else?

[00:41:13] Right? But that's kind of how I think about it, I guess, each day. 

[00:41:18] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. So it's just, it's just become woven into to how you walk in the world, and I think that just is a testament to the fact that that's how you build resilience.

[00:41:33] It,

[00:41:34] It's just moment by moment and we can all read about it and become armchair adventurers.

[00:41:40] But until we act and put, you know, get the rubber on the road. And sometimes what I've noticed and I noticed this with clients also as they're changing. And they're trying to act in old relationships. It can be [00:42:00] really hard. David Drake, who's, he's amazing. He's a big narrative coach guy. That's who I, I studied with him for my certification.

[00:42:09] He talks about this what do you call these things? A Mobius strip where it has like the infinity symbol but turned on its side. So you learn, you, you learn about these things. And maybe it's through self-reflection. Maybe it's through reflection with a coach or a. Therapists and you kind of build this new way of being over here, and then you'd go out into the world and you try to act on that new way of being.

[00:42:40] And depending how that goes, you can go back into yourself and make yourself smaller again. Because that didn't go well. Or you can reflect on, and this is what I love. I mean, I, I told you before we hopped on the call, I now have a new sticky note next to my bed to expand [00:43:00] my evening reflections. 'cause it used to just be, what am I, great, what was I grateful for today?

[00:43:04] And how did it make me feel? And now I'm like, what did I learn today? Did I say something that. I feel, you know, I feel icky about should I apologize to that person or just does it require me to forgive myself? Like these moments of restoring our sense of self so that we don't retract and become small versions again, but that we can go back and keep acting.

[00:43:31] 'cause 

[00:43:32] Terry Healey: I like that a lot. 

[00:43:33] Kathy Washburn: Once we stop the action we get. We get sucked back into this smaller version, and I love the way that you said this self, the, this idea of self-reflection. If you don't have a self-reflection practice, you're gonna end up doing the same things and acting the same ways and stay stuck in a rock or stunting your personal growth because.

[00:43:59] because.[00:44:00] 

[00:44:01] You can't change if you're not willing to put that change into action. So that affects your wellbeing and the wellbeing of your relationship. So if you're, one of the things I've been really trying to learn, and it doesn't always go so well, is that, yeah,

[00:44:18] that, yeah,

[00:44:20] it's okay to have emotions. I don't need to stuff my emotions and turn myself into a.

[00:44:29] Chameleon and be, and people please and be somebody that I'm not that as a human I'm allowed to express when I feel hurt or negative emotions. And if somebody doesn't react to that in a positive way, it used to make me come back and say, okay, never again. Just keep stuffing and keep stuffing, but. The stuffing emotions is like dynamite.

[00:44:59] It's [00:45:00] gonna come out sideways somehow. So the keeping on practicing and quote unquote failing, but then being able to come back and reflect on that, was that failing? No. I said what I needed to say and their reaction was, their reaction had nothing to do with me, but without that reflection process. Shut down, not doing that again.

[00:45:30] Terry Healey: Right. 

[00:45:31] Kathy Washburn: So it's so important. 

[00:45:33] Terry Healey: No, I, I love the way you described it actually. And what was really interesting, and I, is I did this talk to college age kids recently, and all their questions afterwards were about dealing with challenges related to personal relationships. And Yeah, and it was really interesting because they all said, well, I'm in a situation.

[00:45:57] I, I don't think I can change it. [00:46:00] And you kind of articulated it really, really well. I mean, you can't change other people. So relationships are, are tough. I mean, you have to, but you can do what you have learned you should do to manage it for yourself. And whether it works or not, reflect on it. Reinforce.

[00:46:20] The positive, which is, you know, hey, you're doing what you need to do for your own self-care. You're not gonna change somebody else, but you can feel good about how you're dealing with that relationship. Whether that just means this is somebody that I can't. Be talk to every day anymore. I gotta limit my interaction.

[00:46:41] I have to deal with this person for whatever reason. But that was a really common thread, and I found it interesting that multiple kids, multiple young adults were talking about it. Mm-hmm. So, and many of them had been to therapy. So that's again a whole new world, right. That when I was that age, that [00:47:00] wasn't really cool.

[00:47:01] Now it, right now it's supported, you know, so. 

[00:47:04] Kathy Washburn: It's so beautiful that it is supported. I am conscious of the time. I have one last question. I know that we have to speak again because I have so many more questions and I would love to see you speak. Do you have any TED talk or anything out there? 

[00:47:19] Terry Healey: I don't have a TED talk no 

[00:47:21] Kathy Washburn: yet.

[00:47:21] I would love for you to answer this question, which I ask everybody. If I were to crush you up. Put you in pill form. What effect would your essence have on someone taking that pill? 

[00:47:39] Terry Healey: Wow. Bloated. I, I, I guess I would only say that I would hope that they could find, they would gain just a tiny bit of, little bit of wisdom. I feel like, that's one lesson that I've learned and I would tell to my younger self is that don't be afraid of change. Embrace it, because that's how you gain [00:48:00] wisdom. So hopefully if I got crushed up and there's nothing left but this little pill, maybe that could give somebody a little tiny bit of wisdom.

[00:48:09] I don't know. 

[00:48:10] Kathy Washburn: I think I got a little dose of that reading your book. 

[00:48:13] Terry Healey: An interesting question though. I love the question. 

[00:48:15] Kathy Washburn: Think about that. So I, yeah, I got your your book as it's, it's not out there, right? It's not out yet. I just got my, so 

[00:48:25] Terry Healey: the publication, yeah, the publication date is September 9th.

[00:48:28] You got yours early 'cause you're special. And,

[00:48:31] yeah, it's just working its way through distribution, but it is out there, so to speak. Yeah, it's, it's shipping in some cases to people that are ordering it, so 

[00:48:40] Kathy Washburn: yes. And we will definitely put in the show notes, everything to make sure that people get access to you.

[00:48:49] You speak a lot about this topic and probably you'll be doing more about the book. Yeah. 

[00:48:56] Terry Healey: Yeah, so I, I hope it helps. I hope it just helps in [00:49:00] some little way. That's, that's the goal. If somebody can learn or, like we talked about before, just be reminded of something, one thing, then, then I've achieved something in that, in that time.

[00:49:12] So, hmm. 

[00:49:13] Kathy Washburn: Your words will touch many and change money. Thank you so much for the work that you put out in the world. So grateful. I am grateful for your gift of time, and I wish you well. 

[00:49:25] Terry Healey: Thank you Kathy. Appreciate the time. Great conversation. 

[00:49:29] Kathy Washburn: Yes, take care.