Ep. 68 - Your Body as Partner: Why Pain Is a Signal, Not a Sentence with Dr. Taelon Parson

Episodes you will love

• Ep. 32: Restore Your Nervous System and Why That is Important with Rachael Rauch
•  Ep. 5: Tapping Into Body Intelligence with Miranda Holder
•  Ep. 49: Finding Safety and Stabilization in Emotional Regulation with Amelia Bradaric

In this conversation, Kathy Washburn and Dr. Taelon Parson unpack why pain is often a signal of dysfunction, not damage, how modern life trains our bodies into “normal” tension, and what it looks like to rebuild body trust through movement, awareness, and the right kind of physical therapy support.

Topics Discussed in this episode:

• Pain as a signal, not damage
• Normalizing chronic tension and dysfunction
• Dural tension and sciatic style pain
• Sitting too much and mobility loss
• Movement snacks and daily mobility habits
• Body trust after injury and illness
• Physical therapy education and patient empowerment

View extended shownotes here

Subscribe to Sense of Peace (Kathy's Substack) today!

RECEIVE the attention you need to reconnect with your purpose. Click here to learn more about individual coaching with Kathy!

If this resonated, the most generous thing you can do is share it with one woman who needs to hear it. One share grows this community more than any algorithm.

Follow the show on your favorite platform, and come find me on Substack at senseofpeace.substack.com — that’s where the deeper conversation lives.

And if you’re ready to stop just listening and start doing this work — visit kathywashburn.net. I’d love to talk with you. 

Until next time — keep investing in yourself. It is always, always worth it.

#SpreadMadLove

Transcript

 Ep. 68 - Your Body as Parter Why Pain Is a Signal, Not a Sentence with Dr. Taelon Parson

Ep. 68 - Your Body as Parter Why Pain Is a Signal, Not a Sentence with Dr. Taelon Parson

[00:00:00] What if the pain you've been ignoring in your body isn't just something to push through, but your body's way of asking for partnership? In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Talen Parson, a doctor of physical therapy, who's rewriting the rules on how we care for our bodies. Dr. Te doesn't just treat symptoms.

[00:00:24] He teaches you to become curious about the signals of your body and the messages they're sending, and he empowers you to take action. I, full disclosure, Dr. Te is my physical therapist and in our conversation you are going to discover many things. You'll discover why sitting might be sabotaging your health more than you realize.

[00:00:51] Why pain and dysfunction. Aren't always connected the way that you think and how your body's brilliant [00:01:00] compensation patterns have been quietly creating problems that you might have learned to call normal. Dr. Te introduces a radical reframe. Your body isn't something to criticize or fix, it's your partner.

[00:01:18] And like any partnership, it requires investment attention and advocacy. We talk about the power of dry needling, something that was very new to me when I started seeing Dr. Tay. We talk about why Western healthcare might be keeping us stuck in reactive mode and the importance of treating your body with the same care you'd give your car.

[00:01:45] And it is my hope that you treat your body with even more care than you give your car. If you've normalized tension, ignored warning signs, or spent years thinking, well, this just how I am, [00:02:00] this conversation will wake you up to what's possible. Your future self is begging you to listen because you only get one body and it's time to start treating it like the partner.

[00:02:14] It is because we all know it's the only partner that is with us through our entire life and will only le leave us when we leave this life.

[00:02:29]

[00:03:17] 

[00:03:17]

[00:03:17] Meet Dr Telin

[00:03:17] Kathy Washburn: Well welcome Dr. Telin Parson, otherwise known as Dr. Te. Full disclosure, Dr. Te is my physical therapist and he runs recovery and performance business called Sonder.

[00:03:36] Kathy Washburn: And yes. I love this name. 

[00:03:39] Meaning of Sonder

[00:03:39] Kathy Washburn: I would love for you just to share with the audience what the word sonder means, because I didn't even know of it before I met you. 

[00:03:49] Dr. Taelon Parson: It was I learned it first as a music artist and it's a, a word from some novel in the eighties, but Sonder is the realization that every human you meet has a life as [00:04:00] intricate and complex as your own.

[00:04:01] Kathy Washburn: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:02] Dr. Taelon Parson: And for me, I'm, I like to say I'm not much of anything without my patients. Like, without having, helping them tell their stories, move their best kind of live their best life in that way. And so that's, I mean, my indication. Like using Sonder as my indication that it's bigger than me. It's about like helping support these other people.

[00:04:20] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so it's always resonated with me. It's been something that's kind of been in my in my mind for a long time. And then I took the leap and started my own clinic and here we are. 

[00:04:31] Kathy Washburn: Here we are. I, I did spend a little time on your website and just to read more about you, and people can look in the, in the show notes to find your bio and contact information.

[00:04:41] Kathy Washburn: But one of the things, and I knew this and it kind of raised my. Power with my sons to know that, hey, this guy's a wide receiver. He was a wide receiver for the University of Washington and now he's a doctor of physical therapy. 

[00:04:57] Anatomy Fascination

[00:04:59] Kathy Washburn: But the thing that that really [00:05:00] caught my eye in your about section was that you fell in love with how we work as humans.

[00:05:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: Yes. There's something elegant about the anatomy. There's something, exciting about recognizing the same kind of idiosyncrasies for different injuries. And I often say that my job is simple, but it's not easy because anatomy doesn't change much. Physics doesn't change much, but my job is kind of recognizing how to identify the faults and create a plan to help people get back to, to moving as optimally as they can.

[00:05:37] Dr. Taelon Parson: Mm-hmm. And so. Falling in love with it was recognizing that giving people good tools and pairing that with good kind of manual treatment good inputs and giving them the, the to-do list, so to speak can help. Optimize those movement patterns, help get them to a point where they're [00:06:00] not worrying about the same old tight shoulders or the same kind of faulty knee with running.

[00:06:05] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so it's it's a pretty awesome system. It's been reiterated for, for a couple millennia. For several millennia, right. And so it's cool to be able to take it and, and help people move, move their best. 

[00:06:18] Kathy Washburn: Hmm. Yes. 

[00:06:19] Whole Person Approach

[00:06:20] Kathy Washburn: And I love I think this is where we collided in this idea of like, I've gotta get you on the podcast.

[00:06:26] Kathy Washburn: Because you are so fascinated with, and you create these opportunities for people to retrain and reeducate their bodies. It's not like I go in there and I'm like, peace out. See you later. I'll be back in three weeks for you to do the work on me, and in those sessions you do such a beautiful job of kinda weaving like, oh, what's happening in your body to like, what's happening in your life right now?

[00:06:58] Kathy Washburn: I often think I should [00:07:00] pay you extra at the end for the therapy session that just transpired in addition to the physical therapy. 

[00:07:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: I think it's, I think it's so fun because when you create an environment that is welcoming, when you create this opportunity for somebody to come in with their physical ailment, not only do we not exist in a vacuum, but like I'm grateful that I'm able to have a platform for people to come and share all kinds of things and, there's the, there's the physical way you interact with the world, right? There's the the things we carry around with this every day that can kind of influence those things. And it doesn't necessarily have to be like a direct connection between what you're feeling and how you're moving. Mm-hmm. But those things often influence each other.

[00:07:47] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so, yeah, I mean, the goal is always to blend, like the education plus like trying to empower patients to kind of take the steps necessary to help them bulletproof themselves. And [00:08:00] I think my job would be boring if it was just to maybe get the hands on, crack some stuff, do some soft tissue work and send you on your way.

[00:08:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: You know, I think it's bigger than that. And trying to help support people in a, in a greater way than that is the goal. 

[00:08:13] Kathy Washburn: Mm. And I've experienced both worlds the, the McDonald's version of like, come in, get your crack on and lay on this thing that's gonna massage you, and then sign the check and piece out versus what I experience when I'm with you.

[00:08:30] Kathy Washburn: And like. You just have such a paradigm shift that I wanna introduce to people around this sense of awareness. 

[00:08:38] Reframing Physical Therapy

[00:08:38] Kathy Washburn: You say that physical therapy needs a reframe. Yeah. I think most of our health system could use a reframe. 

[00:08:47] Dr. Taelon Parson: You 

[00:08:47] Kathy Washburn: talked about it, but what have we been getting wrong about? Pain and dysfunction.

[00:08:53] Kathy Washburn: I mean, even just saying those two words, I feel like I've, I'm like grippy, right? What does, what [00:09:00] does it cost us to look at pain and dysfunction in the way that we currently do? And 

[00:09:07] Dr. Taelon Parson: I think there's a false. Dichotomy there, right? Mm-hmm. Like I think pain can influence dysfunction, and dysfunction can influence pain.

[00:09:16] Dr. Taelon Parson: But I don't think they're necessarily mutually exclusive and I don't think they always come together, if that makes sense. 

[00:09:22] Kathy Washburn: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:22] Dr. Taelon Parson: So the, the physical therapy needing a reframe piece is I think everybody's had some sort of experience with physical therapy, and one of the reasons I called my.

[00:09:31] Dr. Taelon Parson: Company Sonder Recovery and Performance is because I want the recovery to meet you where you're at and the performance to take you to where you want to go, and less about physical therapy. And I think that kind of comes with a, a loaded phrase like everybody's had some sort of experience, but the whole kind of therapy piece implies that there has to be.

[00:09:53] Dr. Taelon Parson: Not that there has to be a problem, but I wanted to boil it down to let's meet where you're at and take it a little bit further. So [00:10:00] that's the recovery of performance. And I think ultimately physical therapy can be greater than a lot of what people have experienced before. 

[00:10:07] Damage Versus Dysfunction

[00:10:07] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so when we boil it down to, it's not always something structural, that's the issue.

[00:10:12] Dr. Taelon Parson: Yes, you can have a muscle strain as some sort of damage to the muscle, but often that happens. People experience their pain without some sort of event to trigger it. And in that case, we're more likely dealing with dysfunction, over damage. Pain is really interesting for our body because our body really wants to hear pain.

[00:10:33] Dr. Taelon Parson: It really wants to be aware of that painful signal, but it really doesn't like pain. So it's gonna make whatever kind of compensations necessary to keep you moving, to keep you doing the things that you love to do. Regardless of whether it's optimal, regardless of whether it's going to, you know, serve you in the long run and dysfunction is that implication that.

[00:10:57] Dr. Taelon Parson: Something isn't quite strong enough for what you're asking it to [00:11:00] do. So it's gonna make some sort of compensation to help you accomplish, accomplish the task. Because our bodies are brilliant Compensators. Mm-hmm. They 

[00:11:08] Kathy Washburn: don't 

[00:11:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: care what the right way to move is. They don't care what how to optimally do a squat.

[00:11:14] Dr. Taelon Parson: They, if you put a bar on your back, if you grab a kettlebell, a dumbbell, whatever it is, and you go to squat or to make it more applicable, just every day, if you go to sit down, your body doesn't care. How, which muscles to use is gonna get the task done. And so whatever biases, stiffnesses, restrictions you bring to that party are gonna determine then how you move.

[00:11:36] Dr. Taelon Parson: You do that 43 times a day, over 25 years, you're gonna develop some sort of biases. You're gonna develop some sort of patterns. And if it's not in that, if it's not as optimal as it could be, then we end up with the pain. Is coming from dysfunction, not necessarily coming from damage. And so that's, I think that the [00:12:00] dichotomy is, is damage versus dysfunction is what is, in what event is it something not working the way that it needs to, and in what event is there something broken, damaged, or missing?

[00:12:11] Dr. Taelon Parson: And I find that it's more often a dysfunction than it is a damage. 

[00:12:14] Kathy Washburn: dang. And our bodies as brilliant compensators. Actually kind of encourage us to live in the, in the dysfunction, and then we just think it's normal. Like, oh, I didn't know I could feel this good. 

[00:12:32] Dr. Taelon Parson: I know that I couldn't be here all of the time.

[00:12:35] Dr. Taelon Parson: Right. 

[00:12:36] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. 

[00:12:36] Dr. Taelon Parson: That's just where I keep my stress. Right? 

[00:12:38] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, I see. Right now for those of you who are not looking, Dr. TAs put his ears basically into his shoulders. I didn't know that. I don't have to be here all the time, and that is something I come to you with is this chronic. Shoulder, neck tension.

[00:12:57] Kathy Washburn: And I walk out of your [00:13:00] office all the time feeling spaciousness, like right between my ears and my shoulders, right? My shoulders just released. But like the mechanics of that and this is part of the therapy on your mat, but like there's a lot. That I don't even, I'm not even aware that I'm carrying, 

[00:13:23] Dr. Taelon Parson: Hmm, 

[00:13:24] Kathy Washburn: it's that dysfunction or that, that normal, you know, slowly as the weeks go by without awareness, my, my shoulders go back and become part of my ears and, and my neck becomes the strongest muscle in my body.

[00:13:40] Kathy Washburn: But 

[00:13:41] Dr. Taelon Parson: est, I don't know about strongest. 

[00:13:43] Kathy Washburn: Tightest, right? Mm-hmm. Strength is a different word, but we are literally and figuratively carrying in our body, dis-ease and dysfunction without awareness, right? [00:14:00] Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] Stress And Adaptation

[00:14:00] Dr. Taelon Parson: I don't think there's a uniformity to how everybody will hold the same type of tension.

[00:14:06] Dr. Taelon Parson: Like I don't think there's a uniform response to psychological stress, but there is a predictable response to physiological stress. Breaking that down. If you did 25 reps of bicep curls every day with 10 pounds, over time, your body will adapt to that. If you spend four and a half hours at a time staring at your computer screen with compromised mechanics, and you aren't able to get yourself out of that pattern, your body will adapt to that, and I think it's easy to fault the activity.

[00:14:47] Dr. Taelon Parson: When your body is adapting to the activity that you're putting on it, like our body is, is malleable, is plastic. And I think that's something that we forget. We forget that we're incredibly resilient [00:15:00] creatures and that it's less about not ever doing the challenging, uncomfortable thing. It's not about never sitting at your desk.

[00:15:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: It's recognizing that. There are ways to break up that time at your desk to make it so that you're less constantly in a compromised position. And so yes, we have the the spiritual, the mental carrying that we're doing, and that's gonna manifest in behaviors. And those behaviors tend to manifest the change in, in the body function that we see.

[00:15:36] Kathy Washburn: And I think the awareness factor and this reframe of health in general to include that agency of I, I can choose to. Do the exercises that Dr. Tes adjusted between our [00:16:00] sessions. And I know that when I do, my ears and my shoulders are separate entities, right? And so it's that re patterning of what you say, like retraining my body to support itself in a different way.

[00:16:20]

[00:16:20] Pain As Catalyst

[00:16:20] Kathy Washburn: do you see that people's change point or the catalyst point is often the pain, or do people come to you before the pain and say, Hey, something I feel dis-ease, or I feel dysfunction, what can I do about it? Or is it like I am no longer functioning? 

[00:16:38] Dr. Taelon Parson: I wish there was more. My job would be easier if I got people when they recognized there was some dis disease and dysfunction before there was pain, because I think pain adds that extra layer on top of it of now I'm uncomfortable, now I'm not sleeping now, I can't run the way that I like to now.

[00:16:56] Dr. Taelon Parson: I can't do the rowing machine the way that I like to, and that's affecting [00:17:00] my kind of mental on a daily basis. And so I would say that often the catalyst. Is pain, not that that's necessarily a bad thing mm-hmm. But we're not necessarily trained as a lay person to recognize that, oh, my shoulders, you know, clicking and cracking a little bit.

[00:17:18] Dr. Taelon Parson: And when I wake up in the morning, my hands are numb. Like, we're not really trained to recognize what those signals mean. And I think the traditional our western model of healthcare is very reactive and very. Or at being, you know, proactive and prophylactic and we're not really set up for success when it comes to stopping things from getting to that painful point.

[00:17:42] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so the answer to your question is yes. Usually I get people after, you know, not right after the pain started. It's if I had a dime for every time somebody came in and said, you know, I just, I thought it would get better. Like that's the, that's the quote I hear every new patient evaluation is I, I just, you know, it's been [00:18:00] three years and I just thought it would get better, and then life gets in the way and that you don't get the right help or you don't have the chance to get help or the time you don't give yourself the, the grace to recognize something.

[00:18:12] Dr. Taelon Parson: Really might be wrong and that you need some help to kind of take that next step. And so typically the catalyst is the pain. I don't think it has to be, that's just kind of what, what we learn, unfortunately. 

[00:18:25] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. And if you throw yourself into the normal healthcare systems. That your insurance covers, they often are like, oh, you're in pain.

[00:18:35] Kathy Washburn: Well, here's some, here's a pill that you can take to just feel better. And then you 

[00:18:41] Dr. Taelon Parson: have that, this, this will make the muscles feel less tight. Right? Yeah. Okay. Well, how about we take a step back and think, well, why are the muscles tight in the first place? 

[00:18:49] Kathy Washburn: Mm. 

[00:18:51] Dr. Taelon Parson: But that's, that's something that we've not encouraged with our healthcare system.

[00:18:56] Kathy Washburn: Yes. And you're changing that one [00:19:00] body at a time, 

[00:19:01] Dr. Taelon Parson: doing my best. 

[00:19:02] Kathy Washburn: Yes. And it starts with that self-awareness, which leads to that agency of like, I can choose, there are different choices I can make to, to solve this, to take agency. 

[00:19:16] Mad Scientist Method

[00:19:16] Kathy Washburn: You often talk about. When we're together the, you're a mad scientist. I I just smile every time I think of you with your two little boys at the kitchen table when they're about like.

[00:19:30] Kathy Washburn: Nine and 10 or nine and 11 when they're just still so madly curious and you can sit and meet 'em there at the table. 

[00:19:39] Dr. Taelon Parson: I, I'm so excited for that. I mean, even it's starting, even now, you know, like I, I try to be thorough with my explanations with Ellis for, you know, why he's feeling sick, you know, help him understand.

[00:19:52] Dr. Taelon Parson: What his Ellis is my two and a half year old. And like try to help him understand, okay, the best way to combat this is let's drink lots of water. Let's eat [00:20:00] lots of food, let's get lots of rest. You know, and, and it starts there. And ultimately I think with patients in the clinic, yeah, I could just make it feel better, but let's recognize.

[00:20:10] Dr. Taelon Parson: The change we're trying to create. There are a lot of mirrors in the, in the gym space of the clinic because trying to find that self-awareness of like, oh, you're right. When I do a row, my shoulders rise up towards my ears. And so that's where the cues come in, manual verbal cues, whichever it is, so that we can help you understand what it feels like to keep a stable shoulder blade and be able to see that and feel that and kind of internalize that piece.

[00:20:38] Dr. Taelon Parson: I think the mad scientist piece is less about like directionless experimenting and more of recognizing that every. Human that comes in kind of has a different presentation. It may be similar shoulder pain to the last patient, but let's understand which things are influences, the influencing, the ways [00:21:00] that their shoulder is moving.

[00:21:01] Dr. Taelon Parson: How am I going to use the right cues and the appropriate exercises to. Help them get a little bit better. I don't do printouts in my clinic 'cause nobody's getting the same exact exercises. Nobody's getting the same exact cues. And I think it's important to remember that there's a lot of variables in this human nature thing, you know?

[00:21:21] Dr. Taelon Parson: And I think that's where the, the scientist in me kind of, kind of comes, comes out. I'm always iterating on what I'm doing and treating or how I'm treating in the clinic. If I did the same thing every time a patient came in. I would do them a disservice, right? So I'm always trying to, to get a little bit better with my understanding, with my techniques, with the, the things that I can do in the clinic.

[00:21:44] Kathy Washburn: Hmm. Well, when you do turn on that kind of mad scientist version of you, it invites the curiosity in me because I realize at age 59, like I don't go from the bottom up. I don't go from listening to my body [00:22:00] first and then responding. I go from the neck from. You know, head down. So to engage my intellect in that like curiosity factor of like, oh, that's what's going on.

[00:22:13] Kathy Washburn: Then when we finish the session and we go into that room with the mirrors and you give me the exercises, like it, it's almost like my whole self is now. Turned on and ready mm-hmm. Versus you trying to say like, well, how does that feel? You know, where do you feel that in your body? I'm like, I, I checked out five minutes ago, like, just feeling the needles.

[00:22:38] Kathy Washburn: And it's, it's just a different approach that I think is so invitational. 

[00:22:43] Dr. Taelon Parson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:45] Kathy Washburn: For, for people to step into their own humanness in a safe space. And isn't that what we all just wanted? 

[00:22:53] Dr. Taelon Parson: We, we want some support in a, in a positive way, in an empowering way. 

[00:22:57] Empowerment Not Dependence

[00:23:05] Dr. Taelon Parson: You know, I tell all my first patient, like first patient evaluations, like in my first little spiel is today I want you to understand how, what and why.

[00:23:08] Kathy Washburn: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: Because if I don't have those three things, if I'm not able to communicate those three things, what am I doing in here? Mm. Like it's not just a transactional service here, like I'm trying to be here to help support you and help you take that next step. I tell folks when they're starting to feel a little bit better, the goal is to taper this off.

[00:23:24] Dr. Taelon Parson: I don't want you to need me. 

[00:23:26] Kathy Washburn: Mm. The 

[00:23:26] Dr. Taelon Parson: goal is to help set you up for success so that you can, you know, take the tools I've given you and go apply it to new challenges. Right. Bad for business, but good for business. 'cause when you get that patient like feeling better and truly seeing some progress, either you'll see them for the next issue or they tell their brother, mother, cousin situation and like having it be.

[00:23:49] Dr. Taelon Parson: More about this place where you can come and not feel a hundred percent, and I'm gonna help giving you all the tools and help you feel empowered to take those steps towards 100%. [00:24:00] Because I think what it's all about, like that's why I got into this like industry in the first place is like, how can I help people, right?

[00:24:07] Dr. Taelon Parson: And not just checking the box like I've never been a clock puncher. I want to do everything I can in that hour I've got with that patient to help them feel a little bit better today. There's a longer story here about why I didn't want to go to med school and why I didn't want to be the surgeon. But I think in this forum, in this what I, how I've set up this clinic is to, I, I is in order to better empower folks in order to better, like, help them recognize that they are resilient, that their body is kind of an incredible machine and sometimes it just needs, you know, a tuneup.

[00:24:44] Dr. Taelon Parson: In order to keep, keep going the way that they, that they wanna be going. 

[00:24:47] Body Trust And Injury

[00:24:47] Kathy Washburn: It's taken me years to realize that my body is, my partner, not, not, not something to look at. And part of that is like, you know, having [00:25:00] cancer at age 34, there was this like, oh, wait a minute. Can't trust you. I don't know what happened there.

[00:25:07] Kathy Washburn: And there's like this subliminal sense of that. And this idea of I do a lot of future self work. When I'm working with clients, and I find, I even say that to my sons and yeah, both, both of my sons were competitive snowboarders. And there was one terrible year where they were both border cross, so it's like a obstacle course, kind of aggressive rail soul down hill obstacle course where you're just trying to chuck people off.

[00:25:41] Kathy Washburn: But one winter. One broke his pelvis and the other fractured his spine in like the same weekend because they were basically doing this on a luge track that the adults running. This wouldn't call it off, even though like ambulance after [00:26:00] ambulance and I was. I was like the mad mama bear. I totally lost my, myself on the field.

[00:26:09] Kathy Washburn: Anyway, Brad, my younger one who broke his pelvis, you know, at age 13, you get all these, you gotta do this exercise and this exercise. 

[00:26:20] Hip Pain Meets Ironman

[00:26:29] Kathy Washburn: Well, trying to get the kid to do anything was like, so he has this funky hip thing going and he's now training for a. Half Iron Man. 

[00:26:33] Dr. Taelon Parson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:33] Kathy Washburn: And he's running a lot. And that hip's like, Hey, remember me?

[00:26:39] Dr. Taelon Parson: Remember when you were 13 and you didn't quite give it the, the input that it needed to come back? 

[00:26:45] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. It's that future self being grateful for. 

[00:26:51] Dry Needling First Reactions

[00:27:03] Kathy Washburn: You doing the work now even at 59, like I go to your clinic and you do this thing called dry needling, which I had never experienced before. And and I know like the, the first time my whole body was like, what is gonna happen?

[00:27:08] Kathy Washburn: He's gonna put some electrodes onto these needles. And like, and there was this moment that happened where it was like my whole body just said, I. Oh yeah, you can relax. 

[00:27:23] Dr. Taelon Parson: That's helpful. Right. 

[00:27:24] Kathy Washburn: That's really helpful. What do you do when people have that moment? Like does it happen a lot or was I just novel?

[00:27:33] Dr. Taelon Parson: The unease pre like I think. That's when I lean into the education, I always talk about kind of what we're going to do, how we're going to do it, and what the expectation can be like during that experience. You are not the anomaly. I think most people coming in have some sort of reservation about some funky guy put needles in their body, you know?

[00:27:56] Dr. Taelon Parson: But I do think that when you believe in something, it's easy to [00:28:00] talk about it, it's easy to explain it. Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:02] How Dry Needling Works

[00:28:02] Dr. Taelon Parson: And I mean, dry needling is. We are just taking something from the acupuncturists and applying more of our kind of science perspective, more of our kind of western perspective on it. A lot of the points that we use in our dry needling practice are similar to something somebody might use in a western acupuncture setting.

[00:28:21] Dr. Taelon Parson: It's the same needles. However, my goal, my plan is to address the musculoskeletal system and less about trying to move QI along Meridians. Could I be moving Chi maybe? I don't, don't claim to be. My recognition is that we're trying to recruit an inflammatory response. We're trying to re to direct that inflammatory response to where we want the body to kind of create this healing.

[00:28:45] Dr. Taelon Parson: We're creating an immune response. We get some white blood cells to come to clean out some of the nastiness that's been saying, pain. Pain, stiff, stiff. And then we get this built in pain killing response. And what's fascinating is it's the same. Endogenous the same built-in cascade that [00:29:00] opioid medications work on, but not adding opioids just by breaking the skin with a needle, we can create that hijack that cascade effectively.

[00:29:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so a lot of people. 

[00:29:10] Needles Plus Movement Plan

[00:29:10] Dr. Taelon Parson: I don't come up front with the needles because I do think that if we're going to use some sort of input to change the behavior of the muscle, we also have to change the behavior of how you're moving your body. And so typically, like how a first visit goes is, let's understand how we got here.

[00:29:27] Dr. Taelon Parson: Let's gather some data as to where we are now. Let me show you how we're going to change it. Where we're going to go through a few, a handful of movements, a handful of exercises that are going to help change that behavior. And now let's change the actual pain, dysfunctional physical part. Because I don't think you can have one without the other and expect to have good outcomes.

[00:29:48] Kathy Washburn: Hmm. 

[00:29:48] Designing Comfort In Clinic

[00:29:48] Dr. Taelon Parson: So far as like what you feel on the table, it's really interesting to be in a state of relaxation and then be. [00:30:00] Introduced to that kind of discomfort of a needle being inserted and my job's to make it so it sucks less. But there's a certain degree of suck when you're, you're having a needle put into a muscle.

[00:30:11] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so that's why I lean so much into the experience. That's why the music is chosen, right? That's why the, the clinic's not too hot or too cold because all these things kind of like play into how somebody feels in that moment. And when I can get you past that point of discomfort, that's where we can actually facilitate some change, you know?

[00:30:35] Dr. Taelon Parson: And then, then it's the nice part, the feel good part. Then we connect a little bit of electrodes to those, those needles. We can teach those muscles to contract and relax instead of being stuck, contracted. And we can, you know, facilitate change in a way that you can't, unless you are intramuscular, unless you're within that muscle and asking it to rewire effectively, it's hard to get those outcomes without it.

[00:30:59] Dr. Taelon Parson: And [00:31:00] so I think it's an awesome tool, but it is just that it's a part of the, of the experience. And I mean, I always like end the day with, do you feel better than when you walked in? Like that's the goal is can we create a little bit of incremental change today to help facilitate that return to function for you?

[00:31:16] Train Smarter Not Less

[00:31:16] Kathy Washburn: I love this idea at the very onset of the relationship of like engaging that future self. Like where, where are, where do you wanna go? Where, where are we going? And to have the youth, you know, my son's 29 and. you think you're invincible at this age, but as a, as a 59-year-old, I'm like, your future or self will thank you if you don't just keep pushing your body and instead mm-hmm.

[00:31:44] Kathy Washburn: Like do these proactive inter muscle, like try to get this alignment. I don't know if it's even possible at this point. 

[00:31:55] Dr. Taelon Parson: It's not about not training for an Ironman, right? Like I don't need a [00:32:00] medical degree to tell somebody not to do something. It's about how can we make it so that you can do it more effectively?

[00:32:06] Dr. Taelon Parson: Right? How do I, mm-hmm. Address this imbalance around pelvis, right? Because structurally he's intact, but we have a little bit of dysfunction there, right? Something's not firing the way that it could. Something's a little bit suboptimal and contributing to the the imbalance that he's feeling, and so that's, I guess I keep harvin on this, but it's about meeting somebody where they're at 

[00:32:30] Kathy Washburn: and 

[00:32:30] Dr. Taelon Parson: taking them a little bit further.

[00:32:32] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, that's such an important. Piece of that. Right. Because if you mm-hmm. Take 'em too far. There's a lot of us that are the all or nothing. Like, ah, forget about it. I'm just gonna, I've been living this way for my whole life. I'm just gonna keep on doing it. Yeah. 

[00:32:51] Pain We Normalize Daily

[00:32:51] Kathy Washburn: What have most of us been ignoring or living with or just gotten used to in our bodies?

[00:32:57] Kathy Washburn: That's really not okay. Like [00:33:00] what do you see most? Signals that are just being normalized that are not Necessary. 

[00:33:09] Sitting And Dural Tension

[00:33:09] Dr. Taelon Parson: Most people are, most people have heard this before, but we sit too much and. We are not really designed to be. So in that 90 degrees of hip flexion, 90 degrees of knee flexion, feet flat on the floor, like there is a, an optimal way to sit, but even sitting in an optimal position doesn't, you know.

[00:33:34] Dr. Taelon Parson: Is it the best position for us to be in? I mean, 10,000 years ago chasing Gazelle across the Serengeti, we did not have nice covy office chairs. And so there's a a few kind of patterns that I see because we just do a lot of sitting and you can make the argument. Some people are in a sitting position all day.

[00:33:58] Dr. Taelon Parson: If you [00:34:00] sleep lying on your side with your knees up at 90 degrees, you're still sitting. Like you're still in that shortened position. 

[00:34:07] Kathy Washburn: Dang, you just called me out 

[00:34:09] Dr. Taelon Parson: if, if you're, you're sitting in your car driving to, to the office and then you sit all day at work and then you get back in your car and drive home, and then you sit on the couch and then you sit at the dinner table.

[00:34:20] Dr. Taelon Parson: If we're always sitting, your body's gonna get really used to sitting. So there's a lot of kind of neurological changes that can happen there. There's a dural tension that can happen to where you know, some of the tightness you might feel in your hamstrings isn't because your hamstrings are tight.

[00:34:38] Dr. Taelon Parson: It's because your nerves are used to being in a shortened position, in a seated position. And so I think a lot of that nervous system. Presentation can be explained away as getting older or it could be coming from your back. And often it's simply a dural tension from us sitting too much. Hip flexors get tight [00:35:00] glutes go to sleep.

[00:35:01] Dr. Taelon Parson: Hamstrings may feel tight, but I think some of that is your, is that dural tension for just being in that seated position? So much so that's, I think, the most glaring kind of. 

[00:35:13] Kathy Washburn: I've actually, 

[00:35:14] Dr. Taelon Parson: I'm not saying get rid of your office chair. It's not about never sitting. It's about recognizing how to break up of, break up your sitting.

[00:35:22] Kathy Washburn: I've actually heard that. Sitting is the new Smoking, 

[00:35:26] Dr. Taelon Parson: right? Born to, born to Run is a great book. I do not remember his name. I'm blanking on the, on the author of that. But Born to Run basically kind of breaks that down of like, we're not meant to be. Sedentary desk bound creatures. You know, like that's just not what our anatomy is designed for.

[00:35:44] Dr. Taelon Parson: Most people can't do like a deep squat with their heels on the ground. Most Western people, because we're used to sitting in chairs. And that should be a position of rest, not not something that's a challenge. 

[00:35:57] Kathy Washburn: I'm wondering if you could explain what [00:36:00] dural tension, is that what you're calling it?

[00:36:02] Kathy Washburn: Dural 

[00:36:02] Dr. Taelon Parson: tension? Yeah. So the Dura is the connective slash protective tissue around your nerves. Oh. And so because we do all these cool different positions as humans, like our nerves need to be able to glide ice and smoothly through that like layer of dura. And that's kind of like the layman's.

[00:36:19] Dr. Taelon Parson: Explanation for it, but the dura will adapt to the shortened position or whatever positions you're in more often sitting, shortens those nerves that run down the back of your legs. And so often that can be contributing to your sciatic pain. It can be con contributing to the stiffness you feel in your legs, in your feet, in your calves.

[00:36:42] Dr. Taelon Parson: That's not just not always just a muscular component. There's almost. Always a, some sort of neurological component as well. 

[00:36:50] Kathy Washburn: Wow. Okay. You make me wanna just get up and start walking as I'm talking to you. If I wasn't connected, I just looked up that that Born to Run book [00:37:00] is by Christopher McDougle.

[00:37:02] Kathy Washburn: Does that sound familiar? 

[00:37:03] Dr. Taelon Parson: Yes. That's the one. 

[00:37:03] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, because I'm sure if my son, especially Brad, is listening to this, that might be a book he's gonna put on his list. 

[00:37:11] Dr. Taelon Parson: I think it's a good one. 

[00:37:12] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. 

[00:37:13] Movement As The Antidote

[00:37:13] Kathy Washburn: So the, the antidote to that is movement, right? The get up and walk. 

[00:37:19] Dr. Taelon Parson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:20] Kathy Washburn: Get up and, 

[00:37:21] Kathy Washburn: And stand straight sleep hanging from your toes instead of lying on your side.

[00:37:27] Dr. Taelon Parson: I think it's recognizing that you've got a supercomputer in your pocket that can remind you every 30 minutes to stand up. 

[00:37:35] Kathy Washburn: Ooh. 

[00:37:35] Dr. Taelon Parson: You know what I mean? Recognizing that it's less about having this dedicated. Time where you move. So if you're doing your workout first thing in the morning every day, but then you go and you sit for eight hours, you're kind of like not doing yourself too many favors there.

[00:37:53] Dr. Taelon Parson: Right. And I think like some other cultures do this well. Like we're really good at like [00:38:00] compartmentalizing our lives and doing a little bit of movement kind of throughout the day Is. Kind of what we're designed to do and not really just have one hour of intense exercise, but being able to, you know, do 10 pushups.

[00:38:18] Dr. Taelon Parson: In the middle of a meeting, I don't know, like normalize getting up and, and walking, normalize doing a handful of squats as every time you walk down a certain hallway in your house or something like that. Like finding an excuse to move instead of compartmentalizing it to a part of your life. Sometimes that can help with the activation energy for people too, is it's not about hitting it super intensely.

[00:38:40] Dr. Taelon Parson: It's about just being consistent, you know, and finding an excuse to move. 

[00:38:45] Kathy Washburn: Mm. You remind me of that book, the Blue Zones where people live into their hundreds and they're like, we don't exercise, we're just moving all day. You 

[00:38:54] Dr. Taelon Parson: know? Right. Mm-hmm. We're fishing, we're we're walking to, to the grocery store.

[00:38:58] Dr. Taelon Parson: We're, 

[00:38:59] Kathy Washburn: yeah. 

[00:38:59] Dr. Taelon Parson: We [00:39:00] have it, they haven't isolated themselves into little boxes for each event of their lives. Right, 

[00:39:06] Kathy Washburn: right. Gosh, that's such a great takeaway. 

[00:39:09] Get Help And Invest In You

[00:39:09] Kathy Washburn: If someone is listening to this and kind of recognizing themselves in this conversation, they're carrying tension. They've normalized pain. They sit.

[00:39:19] Kathy Washburn: Drive sleep 99% of their day. And they're spending a lot of their energy outside. Like, this is the, the world that I live in is there's outer calm and inner chaos. 

[00:39:34] Dr. Taelon Parson: Right? 

[00:39:35] Kathy Washburn: What's one thing they can do today, not just to feel better. But to advocate for their own physical body, which is their partner.

[00:39:44] Kathy Washburn: And I really wanna kind of, I'm saying that more aloud to myself as a reminder. Mm-hmm. And everything. 

[00:39:52] Dr. Taelon Parson: You only get the one. You only get the one. 

[00:39:54] Kathy Washburn: Right. 

[00:39:54] Dr. Taelon Parson: And, and so like you bay as well, treat it with some care. I mean, [00:40:00] we get tuneups for our cars and I think trying to do it all yourself, like if I had to go and do an oil change, could.

[00:40:08] Dr. Taelon Parson: Maybe make it happen, a couple YouTube videos, but I wouldn't do a good job, you know? And I think finding a good partner who can help meet you where you're at and taking you a little bit further. Whether it's a good physical therapist, whether it's some other body worker that can, you know, help address some of the pain, but you gotta find somebody who's gonna help put you to work as well.

[00:40:27] Dr. Taelon Parson: There are some exceptional phy personal trainers out there who have a little bit of this mad scientist like perspective of like, okay, but we can address this by creating strength and. I think finding some sort of partner that's gonna push you outside of that comfort zone, I think may be the first step for a lot of people.

[00:40:47] Dr. Taelon Parson: Because I can't, I can't say that everybody should start doing a hundred pushups every day, right? Like, it's not about going and lunging down your hallway every day, right? But it is finding excuse to [00:41:00] move. And I think if you're gonna get a tuneup on your car, like you may as well get a tuneup on, on this vessel too.

[00:41:07] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so finding a good, good partner in that way I think may be the, the first step to get over the hurdle. 

[00:41:13] Kathy Washburn: And I'm just gonna add to that, the willingness to invest in that body partner, because yourself, yeah. Yeah. It might not be covered by insurance. And to get yourself out of this mindset that my health insurance is the only thing that.

[00:41:30] Kathy Washburn: Drives my healthiness. Like you've gotta be willing to invest in yourself financially, just like you would in your car. 

[00:41:42] Dr. Taelon Parson: Yeah, I, I completely agree with that. 

[00:41:44] Why Cash Based PT

[00:41:44] Dr. Taelon Parson: I think one of the reasons I went the model that I went, and that's just cash based, you know, people come in and they can use their HSA their, their FSA, but one of the reasons I wanted to go this direction is it allows me to focus on the quality of care and not about.

[00:41:58] Dr. Taelon Parson: Trying to feed my family by [00:42:00] getting as many patients through the door as possible. Mm-hmm. I came from that like reimbursement model. I came from your classic outpatient clinic. I was seeing 18 to 24 patients a day. Like that's, that's too much. And to think I was doing a good job in that setting is just baffling to me to think about like how I treat patients these days.

[00:42:18] Kathy Washburn: Hmm. 

[00:42:19] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so. My frustration with physical therapy is that people have had that physical therapy mill experience. Not all of them have had a positive, empowering, successful physical therapy experience. I don't remember the exact number, but it was something like 25,000 PTs leave the industry every year.

[00:42:40] Dr. Taelon Parson: Because it's, it's not set up to be good for the pt. It's not set up to be good for the patients. It's not set up to be good for the clinics, so what are we doing? Mm-hmm. Right. Like and so yeah, without raging against the machine too much, like I do think having some support and being able to like, have a challenging [00:43:00] conversation and recognizing within yourself, like, okay, maybe my knee doesn't need to hurt every time I go upstairs.

[00:43:06] Kathy Washburn: Mm. 

[00:43:07] Dr. Taelon Parson: And recognizing it's time to get some help for that. You know, 'cause it can move better. We are resilient creatures. It can move better, it can feel better. And a good pt, a good professional will, will find that way to help support you going forward. 

[00:43:24] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, and I would just highlight one last thing there about what you're saying is ignoring it doesn't a make it go away.

[00:43:34] Kathy Washburn: Nor does it B mean that you're not in for something really special later, like 

[00:43:42] Dr. Taelon Parson: Right. 

[00:43:43] Kathy Washburn: A, a knee pain now versus a surgery at age 70? Yeah, there's a lot to be said for that future self and it's plea to say, go find Dr. Te, go find your version of Dr. Te. 'cause I still wanna be able to get in with him. [00:44:00]

[00:44:00] Dr. Taelon Parson: That's fair.

[00:44:02] Essence In A Pill

[00:44:02] Kathy Washburn: So one final question. If I were to crush your essence up and put it in pill form mm-hmm. What effect would you have on someone taking that pill? And I would love to ask your son this question. I think Alice would have a fascinating response. 

[00:44:20] Dr. Taelon Parson: I think. I think if I wanted my essence to what I would, I would what I think it would be, it would be that kind of like positive.

[00:44:31] Dr. Taelon Parson: Energetic, out of bolstering. Like I, I do think sometimes it's for myself too. Like, I think good professionals can like check whatever they're feeling at the door. They can check not sleeping because it 12 week old is if they didn't sleep super well the night before, you know, and they can check that at the door and still bring positive, exciting energy to their job, you know?

[00:44:55] Dr. Taelon Parson: And so that's. I hope people walk away [00:45:00] from their experiences with me in the clinic with. That was a lot of fun too, you know, like yeah, I've learned a lot. Yeah, I've got a couple of good exercises, but I enjoyed that experience. He knew what he was talking about. I now feel like I know what I'm talking about.

[00:45:13] Dr. Taelon Parson: I know what I'm dealing with, and so that kind of positive reinforcement and like excitement is what I think would be, would be of that pill. 

[00:45:22] Kathy Washburn: Mm, I've taken that pill several times and I have to say I feel two inches taller and I got a little bounce in my step on the way up this stairs. 

[00:45:33] Dr. Taelon Parson: Great. 

[00:45:34] Final Thanks And Resources

[00:45:34] Kathy Washburn: Thank you for your gift of time.

[00:45:36] Kathy Washburn: I know it's precious, especially now with those two little babies. And thank them for sleeping for me. Wow. 

[00:45:43] Dr. Taelon Parson: Yes, they, they're, this has been great. I appreciate your having me on, and this is fun. I love talking about what I, what I do and love helping empower people. And so, like I am, I extend this to all my patients, but you know, anybody listening, anybody watching, like if, let me be a resource for you.

[00:45:59] Dr. Taelon Parson: If you've got a [00:46:00] question, if you need something demystified, if you are looking for some sort of partner to help you find somebody in your area, reach out. Shoot me an email. Love to Thank you. Love to support you. Yeah. 

[00:46:10] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. Thank you Dr. Te. That's, that is just the kind of human you are. My father would call you salt of the earth.

[00:46:20] Dr. Taelon Parson: Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. 

[00:46:22] Kathy Washburn: Okay. Go. Have a great afternoon with those little boys. 

[00:46:25] Dr. Taelon Parson: Thanks so much. I'll see you. 

[00:46:27] ​