Ep. 72 - Consciousness Skills to Create Change and Prevent Burnout with Andrew Parsons

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If you feel like you’re moving fast but never arriving, this episode will show you how to find stillness inside motion and stop burnout before it takes you down. 

Kathy sits down with Andrew Parsons, coach, author, and co-founder of The Conscious Workplace, to unpack consciousness as a practical, learnable skill. You’ll learn how “dynamic stillness” works in real life, why the body signals stress before the brain catches up, and how coherence protects you from burnout. If you’re a high-achieving woman who’s constantly performing while quietly depleting, this conversation gives you language, tools, and a way back to self-trust.

Topics discussed:

• Burnout prevention skills for high achievers
• Dynamic stillness and nervous system regulation
• Somatic awareness and body-based stress signals
• Coherence and resilience at work
• Values clarity and integrity in decision-making
• EFT tapping for emotional regulation

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Transcript

 Ep. 72- Consciousness Skills to Create Change and Prevent Burnout with Andrew Parsons

Ep. 72- Consciousness Skills to Create Change and Prevent Burnout with Andrew Parsons

[00:00:00] Hummingbird Stillness

[00:00:00] Kathy Washburn: What if you could move fast and stay still at the very same time? There's a creature in nature that does this better than anything else on the planet. It's the hummingbird. It beats its wings so quickly you can't even see them, and yet it is completely, perfectly still as it reaches for the sweetness.

[00:00:26] Kathy Washburn: My guest today says that that is not just a metaphor, it's a skill, and it's a skill that we can all learn. Andrew Parsons is a coach, author, and co-founder of the Conscious Workplace, a new community dedicated to building what he calls the skills of consciousness. And what you're going to discover today is that consciousness isn't a concept.

[00:00:53] Kathy Washburn: It's not woo woo science. It's a practice, a learnable, livable set of skills [00:01:00] that start in the body, not the brain. In our conversation, Andrew and I get into something called dynamic stillness. We talk about what coherence actually feels like from the inside, and we dig into why your body is almost always signaling something important before your mind catches up.

[00:01:24] Kathy Washburn: We land on this beautiful question. What would it mean to be a conscious participant in your own life, at work, in your relationships, and even in moments where everything feels wildly out of your control, if you've been moving fast, but somehow never feeling, still constantly searching for the sweetness in life.

[00:01:49] Kathy Washburn: This my friend, is for you.

[00:01:52]

[00:02:40] 

[00:02:40]

[00:02:40] Meet Andrew Parsons

[00:02:40] Kathy Washburn: Welcome Andrew Parsons. I am so excited to have you on this podcast again, so you can share your wisdom with our listeners.

[00:02:51] Kathy Washburn: You come to us from the UK and with an organization called The Conscious [00:03:00] Workplace, and I just wanna let that sink in for a hot second. How many of you work in a conscious workplace? Well, if the answer to that is no, Mr. Parsons is here to change that. Welcome Andrew. How are you? 

[00:03:16] Andrew Parsons: Wonderful to be back.

[00:03:17] Andrew Parsons: Kathy, thank you so much for the invite, actually. I really appreciate it. 

[00:03:21] Kathy Washburn: Yes. Do you wanna give a little spin on what you're doing right now? Do. Who you serve and what you're hoping for. We'll have all your stuff in the show notes, but just to give some place to land. 

[00:03:34] 

[00:03:34] Andrew Parsons: Oh, brilliant. Where to start?

[00:03:36] Building Conscious Workplace

[00:03:36] Andrew Parsons: So I, I think the last time we spoke was a couple of years ago and in that time being involved with a colleague of mine and friend of mine, Vanessa Willis, and creating the conscious workplace. And Vanessa and I met at a health and wellbeing event over here in the uk. And you know how it is sometimes when you just get chatting to people and you think, oh, well, yeah that really makes sense, doesn't it?

[00:03:56] Andrew Parsons: And yeah. And actually we're trying to do the same thing here. Why [00:04:00] don't we collaborate? And, you know, that was wonderful because that was the stimulus that led us to, to really bring both our experiences together to to help people leverage the power of consciousness. And that's really what we're about is how to bring tho those skills of consciousness to the many.

[00:04:19] Andrew Parsons: And, you know, maybe we can talk about this because it, you know, our, my thinking around this has developed over the last few years. And you know, with the help of Vanessa sort of really trying to bring that home in terms of, well, just, wouldn't it be great if we can just elevate our level of consciousness a little bit more?

[00:04:36] Andrew Parsons: And how do we do that? As a leader in an organization, you know, as a coach, you know, working as exec coach health coach, wellness coach you know, our colleagues in, in, you know, mental health professions and other professions. It fundamentally, what we're trying to help people do is, you know, become more clear you know, make useful decisions in their lives and.

[00:04:58] Andrew Parsons: Keep learning and have [00:05:00] that direction and that, that was the stimulus for us to bring this together. And what we're creating is a way in which we can help people build those skills. 

[00:05:08] Kathy Washburn: Wow. There's something so magical that happens when. Two people all are vulnerable enough to say, Hey, I think we could be better together, versus you know, how can I glean some information from you so I can take this and do this on my own?

[00:05:33] Kathy Washburn: And I find it so refreshing. To have that mindset of, okay, I have a little something, you have a little something. How can we collaborate together to make it better? And it's really a powerful mindset in the workplace because most companies, you know, at least the financial company I grew up with, or in the financial sector, [00:06:00] it wasn't very collaborative.

[00:06:02] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. It even. With the people sitting next to me, you know, if I started asking questions about something, there was a little bit of whoa. Why? Why do you need to know? Why? 

[00:06:10] Andrew Parsons: Didn't know that. 

[00:06:11] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. You just stay this is 

[00:06:12] Andrew Parsons: mine. Yeah. 

[00:06:13] Kathy Washburn: Stay in your own sandbox over there. But this idea of collaboration so that we can leverage the skills of consciousness to the many, like we can help more people.

[00:06:28] Kathy Washburn: Gosh, it's such a beautiful thing. 

[00:06:30] From Empowerment to Consciousness

[00:06:30] Kathy Washburn: And I'm thinking back to our original conversation. We spoke mostly on this idea of empowerment. 

[00:06:38] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:06:38] Kathy Washburn: And I know these two things have something to do with one another, but how did your path lead you to consciousness from empowerment? 

[00:06:48] From Empowerment to Consciousness

[00:06:48] Andrew Parsons: It's a really great question.

[00:06:50] Andrew Parsons: And I think it, it comes back to the intent really. 'cause it, when we were built writing the book Empowerment and Health and Wellness, it, it came from our practices [00:07:00] as coaches supporting people with cancer in a volunteer service in a hospital over here in the uk. And what we wanted to do was think about, okay, so what is it we do in our professional practice to support people?

[00:07:13] Andrew Parsons: You know, we came, you know, it was a team book again, we were collaborating, you know, isn't that you get, magic happens when you can co-create. So, you know, what we really do here is enable people to be empowered. You know, we don't empower people. 'cause you know, empowerment is almost like a gift, isn't it?

[00:07:31] Andrew Parsons: It has to be accepted. And that was really around what, well, you know, that's what we can do as, as practitioners we can open the door for people to be that even when they're going through a really difficult time. And, you know, what really still resonates with me is, you know, often we think about thriving and flourishing.

[00:07:49] Andrew Parsons: You know, that often, that language doesn't work If you're in a place where actually you don't want to be. And, you know, and it's not great. But empowerment I is something where I can participate. And that's [00:08:00] the interesting thing. 'cause I think, you know, what fundamental to that is that participation, which is that alignment and motivations.

[00:08:06] Andrew Parsons: And that was the thread that led us all the way through to consciousness. Because actually it, it, when we started to think about this is in, in terms of, well, how do we bring this to the many. This isn't so much about how the process of us working as professionals, it's, well, what are the skills that we're enabling people to learn and develop?

[00:08:25] Andrew Parsons: So, you know, and through that place is actually, well, if you think about that alignment, if I'm really participating, well, a lot of that has to do with intention, doesn't it? 

[00:08:37] Andrew Parsons: And, you know, we start to think about that and, you know, my, my background is kind of very technical in, in the sciences and things.

[00:08:42] Andrew Parsons: And you know, when we can really sort of, be, get clearer our intention and with clarity, even if it's something really small. Then actually, you know, the things could fall away a little bit, can't they? Because I have a direction you know, and if I can keep [00:09:00] checking in with where I am on my direction and such well I can keep learning and I can keep, you know, moving towards it and eventually, you know, get there.

[00:09:09] Andrew Parsons: And that was how we ended up. 

[00:09:11] Consciousness as a Practical Skill

[00:09:20] Andrew Parsons: 'cause, you know, consciousness means so much, many different things to many different people. But we're trying to make it, well, let's be really practical about this. So for us, it's you know, consciousness is the ability to respond dynamically to what's going on around you.

[00:09:25] Andrew Parsons: You know, so you're doing it with awareness and you're learning from the situation, and you know, you're ensuring that intention, purpose, and clarity. 

[00:09:35] Kathy Washburn: We are gonna pull that apart. 'cause there's so much wisdom in there. But before we go any further, this idea, you know, a lot of people think of like consciousness.

[00:09:47] Kathy Washburn: Woo. It's too big for me to. Even conceptualize. But what I'm hearing and I love this kind of thread of empowerment. What I'm hearing is the consciousness [00:10:00] is no matter where you are, no matter if you're dealing with a diagnosis of cancer or if you're in work, in a workplace it's no longer just.

[00:10:11] Kathy Washburn: Pressing play. 

[00:10:13] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:10:13] Kathy Washburn: On what's happening in your world and you being unconscious to your ability to actually participate, whether it's a horrible cancer diagnosis or. Just a sticky situation. Yeah. In the workplace, it is that waking up to I can be a participant in the world around me.

[00:10:40] Kathy Washburn: And I think in our last conversation it was about becoming a participant in our own health, in a place that we feel wildly out of control. But the idea is no. You still have control in this moment. Is that right? 

[00:10:59] Andrew Parsons: [00:11:00] Yeah. And I really strongly believe there's a skill in there and 

[00:11:03] Kathy Washburn: yes. So consciousness as a skill, not a concept.

[00:11:08] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:11:09] Somatic Awareness Signals

[00:11:09] Somatic Awareness and Pause

[00:11:09] Kathy Washburn: This distinction really matters to me. When someone is actually in a moment of stress or disruption, the body's often registering. Way before the mind does. So where does this somatic awareness maybe fit in? 

[00:11:27] Andrew Parsons: Oh, how long have we got? 

[00:11:31] Kathy Washburn: Well, in a world I think maybe to be a little more narrowed in where does the somatic body fit in as a, like an alarm clock or wake up call In a world where we're mostly.

[00:11:45] Kathy Washburn: In our head. 

[00:11:46] Andrew Parsons: Absolutely. And that's one of the skills. 

[00:11:49] Kathy Washburn: Okay. Are we going outta order? 

[00:11:52] Andrew Parsons: No. Absolutely. That that it, 'cause, you know, that awareness of what's going on within me, that, you know, [00:12:00] that's such a powerful decision tool when we can tune into what, you know, what am I sensing here?

[00:12:07] Andrew Parsons: And for me you know, it comes back to the emotion. It's about movement, isn't it? It's a it's about a behavior when it's too important to think and I think we can get that pause between the stimulus and response that's that magical bit that can lead to that conscious space. 

[00:12:23] Dynamic Stillness Practice

[00:12:23] Andrew Parsons: One of the skills that we were talking about is dynamic stillness.

[00:12:27] Kathy Washburn: Yes. I love that. We talked about that before. I think, can you go a little deeper here? 'cause just the two words together seem like an oxymoron, dynamic 

[00:12:39] Andrew Parsons: and stillness. And that's the, that it's the ability to have both, isn't it? And different philosophies and, you know, different you know, cultural perspectives.

[00:12:50] Andrew Parsons: I've known this for many years. You know, it's the yin, the yang, the male, the masculine. You know, there's a balance point to be had here. And [00:13:00] for me it's that ability to be still while we're moving, 

[00:13:04] Kathy Washburn: to be still while we're moving.

[00:13:11] Andrew Parsons: The hummingbird is a wonderful metaphor for this 

[00:13:14] Kathy Washburn: ha

[00:13:19] Andrew Parsons: because the hummingbird is only able to get to where it needs to be for the nectar of the sweetness. You know, by moving so fast we can't see it, but it's incredibly still. 

[00:13:30] Kathy Washburn: Wow. So the stillness sounds deeply physical. 

[00:13:36] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:13:38] Kathy Washburn: Not just mental, it's not about quieting the mind. Is it more about invoking the body?

[00:13:47] Andrew Parsons: Oh, that's a good word. Invoking. I would use being with. 

[00:13:53] Kathy Washburn: So can you describe what someone might notice physically when they're in this state of dynamic [00:14:00] stillness? 

[00:14:02] Andrew Parsons: Oh I think it depends on the person, because how we do this is it's so different in in, in different spaces. But in my experience, you know, personally and talk to many people about these kind of concepts, it's a calmness.

[00:14:15] Andrew Parsons: You know, it's a clarity that comes in and it's it's almost that place of being present with what's going on in and around me. You know, and when we can build that presence a, around it, it's kind of mindful, isn't it? When we build that mindful practice we're building that into space between intention, attention and behavior, 

[00:14:35] Kathy Washburn: attention, intention, and behavior.

[00:14:39] Kathy Washburn: Attention, intention and behavior. You remind me. I often share with clients that when they feel something kicked up to invoke their body by maybe taking a giant mother, may I step back? I don't know [00:15:00] if you had that game when you were little. But you take a big step back and it doesn't have, it can be very subtle If you're in an interaction which you suddenly feel kicked up, take a giant step back just to create some space, physical space, and let that invite a little calm mental space.

[00:15:24] Kathy Washburn: That's the attention and then the intention. Can start to find its way, what you say? Clarity is. Clarity. The last step. 

[00:15:35] Kathy Washburn: Behavior. Behavior. So then I can behave differently rather than react in a way that's subconscious. Is that, am I getting that right? That's the skill. 

[00:15:46] Andrew Parsons: Absolutely. And what a beautiful way of describing a dynamic stillness, because when something kicks up, I take a step back to be still.

[00:15:55] Kathy Washburn: So there, there's that [00:16:00] dynamic. That's a beautiful word by the way. It doesn't feel shameful or, you know, I don't know. I like it. 

[00:16:09] Andrew Parsons: It's something we can do. 

[00:16:10] Kathy Washburn: It's something that we can do. So to build a practice or a skill of dynamic stillness is exercises like. Where you step back? Is there another one that you would 

[00:16:26] Andrew Parsons: fight?

[00:16:26] Practices vs Habits

[00:16:26] Andrew Parsons: Oh I think all the classic, you know, meditation practice, somatic practices. You know, a lot of, you know, people you know, I'm an EFT practitioner, so I be very keen with EFT and, you know, the acupressure points and all these things. 

[00:16:41] Kathy Washburn: Yes. 

[00:16:41] Kathy Washburn: Andrew's referring to EFT Tapping, and I think there's been times in my life where I expect to look in the mirror and actually see dents in those places because I've tapped so many times.

[00:16:55] Kathy Washburn: There's a little imprint, but you're drawing a really [00:17:00] important love. 

[00:17:00] Practice vs Habit

[00:17:00] Kathy Washburn: Between habits and behaviors or habits and practices? I like practices better than behavior habits are conscious, unconscious. 

[00:17:15] Andrew Parsons: Oh, I love this question with clients that I'm working with and invite people to think about what's the difference between a practice and a habit.

[00:17:21] Kathy Washburn: What is the difference? 

[00:17:22] Andrew Parsons: What's the difference? And I'm just drawing my experience of, you know, of you know, sports, martial arts, all sorts of different things, you know, 'cause actually, you know, we train and train and train, but we have a practice

[00:17:38] Andrew Parsons: 'cause our practice is really intentional. It's bringing our training into a direction whatever that direction may be for us. You the practice has a purpose behind it. It probably has some measures, it has some sort of potentially goals but maybe not goals. It might just be an intention to actually want, I just want to explore this.

[00:17:59] Andrew Parsons: And the, that [00:18:00] can bring a whole load of practices that can create habits. But the difference for me at least anyway, is the habit is more unconscious. 'cause the habit is a response to something. I can build those responses and the practice is allowing me to build those responses and, you know, maintain a level of function, if you like, or a, maintain a level of performance, you know, if you're in a sporting context or a competition context or just be aware of what's changing around me.

[00:18:33] Kathy Washburn: Yeah . Is it possible to bring that kind of intention to a practice while kind of your nervous system is still running on an old habit or an old pattern? 

[00:18:49] Andrew Parsons: Well, that's the beauty of a practice. 'cause the more you practice. The more you can perform, you know?

[00:18:55] Andrew Parsons: And you know, my mom used to say to me, you know, practice makes perfect Andrew. And and it took me a long time to say, well, what is [00:19:00] perfect anyway? Because, you know, but it enable, it enables me. And you know, if you're, you know, building you know, you know, the skills of working with HRV, you know, how right.

[00:19:10] Andrew Parsons: Variability, you know, all the all the wonderful stuff that HeartMath has been doing for years and years. You know, the practice there is you practice when it's quiet, so that when you need it, you can adjust. 

[00:19:22] Kathy Washburn: Isn't that the sweet spot that we're all looking for?

[00:19:25] Kathy Washburn: Is to practice in those safe spaces so that when we're in the challenge, all of those practices actually create a habit. 

[00:19:37] Andrew Parsons: Great. 

[00:19:37] Kathy Washburn: A different habit 

[00:19:39] Andrew Parsons: and it creates a response. 

[00:19:40] Kathy Washburn: And a response. 

[00:19:42] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. And the back of the hummingbird again, aren't we with the sweet spots and 

[00:19:44] Kathy Washburn: yes. Yes. Wow. Okay. 

[00:19:50] Coherence From Inside

[00:19:50] Coherence and Resilience

[00:19:51] Kathy Washburn: When we talked before before we got on this call in a previous conversation you used the word coherence.

[00:19:58] Andrew Parsons: Oh yeah. 

[00:19:59] Kathy Washburn: And [00:20:00] I, I think this word needs a lot more attention. It lands differently when I think about it physically than conceptually. What does coherence actually like, look or feel like when somebody's living in it? Living it. 

[00:20:19] Andrew Parsons: Oh, again, know one size doesn't fit all with these things. 'cause you know, it's gonna depend on my context, my con, you know, my, my background, what's expected of me, who I am within that.

[00:20:32] Andrew Parsons: But I think that coherence is when everything feels right. There's a balance. You know, you can think about these things from, you know, engineering terms and but one of the areas that helped us really think about this in a different way was all the work that's been done in the health promotion area around, excuse me solicit, genesis.

[00:20:53] Kathy Washburn: Oh, yes. 

[00:20:55] Andrew Parsons: Because they use the term a sense of coherence [00:21:00] and a sense of coherence is something that we develop. Fewer our genes for early years. And it's actually very protective for us because when we have a high sense of coherence, it protects us against distress and burnout. It's fundamental aspect of that perspective on health promotion.

[00:21:21] Andrew Parsons: And that sense of coherence is a belief or a feeling. You know, things are worth putting energy into. So there's a motive, a meaningfulness, a motivation aspect. There's an understanding around comprehension. So I understand what's going on around me, even when there is, you know, it's completely nuts that there's an understanding, but that is what's happening, you know, that's predictable and a sense of manageability.

[00:21:46] Andrew Parsons: And I think that creates that sense of, you know, I'm okay here. I'm in balance. 

[00:21:52] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, it reminds me of I can't remember whose work it is, but when I feel it, when I'm in coherence, I have a strong [00:22:00] back. Yeah. My spine can be strong and tall, which means I can open my front. Allow a soft front in how I meet the world.

[00:22:13] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:22:13] Kathy Washburn: When I'm lacking coherence, I'm a little more protective of those organs tho those really integral organs in my, so I'm a little more. Crouched over my spine's a little. It's not as tall because I'm trying to protect, but that tall spine, I don't remember who the positive psychology 

[00:22:37] Andrew Parsons: oh, 

[00:22:37] Kathy Washburn: it might be Jill Bothe.

[00:22:39] Kathy Washburn: Is it Jill Bothe Taylor? No. It's like the, you take a position and it's almost like if you believe it before it actually happens, like take that position of a strong spine to, was 

[00:22:53] Andrew Parsons: it. Strong backs off front, isn't it? It's that, yeah. It's that duality again. And that's where the strength [00:23:00] is. And what came to me then?

[00:23:01] Andrew Parsons: I was just this, how beautiful is that? And it's kind of that you know, one of my favorite philosophers Bruce Lee you said the strongest tree, the ones that bending the wind. 

[00:23:09] Kathy Washburn: Yes. 

[00:23:12] Andrew Parsons: Because if I'm trying to resist, you know, and then, yeah that, that's great. It might get me through things, but there's a risk that things will break.

[00:23:20] Andrew Parsons: That's the damage, isn't it? 

[00:23:21] Kathy Washburn: That's pretty fascinating. Again, that does dynamic stillness. It doesn't mean that we're like rigid and bracing. 

[00:23:33] Five Skills Recipe

[00:23:33] Five Skills of Consciousness

[00:23:42] Kathy Washburn: It's kind of a, yeah, it's a little, so your recipe for consciousness, let's go back to that. 'cause I think your new endeavor, the conscious workplace gosh, I was on the website.

[00:23:47] Kathy Washburn: What a plethora of knowledge. You have on there already, and I wanna talk more about how people can access it. But give us the recipe for [00:24:00] consciousness. If you were to, like, if you're baking a cake, 

[00:24:03] Andrew Parsons: baking a cake, 

[00:24:04] Kathy Washburn: baking a consciousness cake. 

[00:24:06] Andrew Parsons: So there, there's kind of like the five skills that we've settled on is, you know, the way in which we can bring, apply these into our lives.

[00:24:13] Andrew Parsons: And it, you know, it's like all these system type things. It's emergent, it's like life, you know, life is the sum of everything. That, that we have it's not just one sound. It's all the organs and the tissues and, you know, all the connections around us. And the five skills for us are, you know, get us into this, you know, space of you know, living with that clarity and intention of dynamic stillness, critical integrity, which is being really aware of my values.

[00:24:44] Andrew Parsons: And the criticalness, there isn't kind of like being, you know, critical of others. It's actually noticing the difference between mine and others. Yeah. And I think that's the space, you know, of action in many ways. It's space of collaboration for sure. [00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. 

[00:25:01] Andrew Parsons: It, it's all, you know, can often, you know, bring an understanding of different perspectives.

[00:25:07] Andrew Parsons: When I'm really clear of mine, that helps me understand, you know, where my tensions may be. 'cause I think when our values clash, that's when coherence can get out of kilter a little bit. So, you know, dynamics still and is critical integrity, heightened awareness. So, you know, that's being aware of what's within me and around me.

[00:25:28] Andrew Parsons: Intentional visioning. Which is that path to where I'm going. And you know, one of the elements that you know, really came from us in these health promotion aspects was powerful resourcing. 

[00:25:44] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. 

[00:25:45] Andrew Parsons: Because it's the resources that we can acquire and gather that will enable us to withstand the challenges we face.

[00:25:52] Andrew Parsons: And the and the from my perspective at least, I think the beauty of this is that, you know, the, these are skills that we can keep on building and, you know, [00:26:00] and life has sent me so many lessons, you know, keep building them for, you know, for many years. But and you know, it's almost like you need something to hook these skills.

[00:26:09] Andrew Parsons: These are skills are generally all around us. But I just go back to, you know, we can learn so much from nature and looking at the animals Yeah. And the seasons and the weathers and things and, you know, and in certain cultures that creates a path. And you know, from my understanding of it at least anyway.

[00:26:25] Andrew Parsons: And those for us are the, that's the inner circle of our wheel of consciousness. 'cause these skills, when we apply them to the, you know, the, you know, five principles. You know, re recovery replenishment, you know, stability and balance. You know, focus, clarity, engagement and passion. You know, following your passion is a great way to you know, direct that you know, intention into something that's really meaningful to me, but learning and growth and that takes energy.

[00:26:53] Andrew Parsons: So if I'm, you know, if I'm learning and I'm growing and I'm developing, you know, really good to have some recovery there. So this is the cycle. [00:27:00] Almost like the sight of consciousness really is we can bring that into our lives with these skills. That then for me at least, that's a vehicle to this coherence.

[00:27:08] Kathy Washburn: So was the fifth step. The rest step. 

[00:27:12] Andrew Parsons: Oh, so you got re 

[00:27:13] Kathy Washburn: dynamic stillness. Critical integrity. Heightened awareness. Heightened 

[00:27:16] Andrew Parsons: awareness. Intentionally. 

[00:27:17] Kathy Washburn: Intentionally. Intentional visioning. 

[00:27:19] Andrew Parsons: Powerful resourcing. 

[00:27:21] Kathy Washburn: Powerful resourcing. Okay. You know what I love words. Words just make me happy. Yeah. But the words that you're using to, as the, you know, 'cause you could say it's stillness, integrity, awareness, visioning, and resources.

[00:27:38] Kathy Washburn: Okay. But when you say they're dynamic and critical and heightened and intentional and powerful, there's an energy behind that is. Almost contagious, which is what consciousness is, right? Yeah. We're trying to raise the level of consciousness. [00:28:00] There is an energy to that, and you've nailed it in all of those words that you're using to describe.

[00:28:08] Kathy Washburn: Wow. I wanna just high highlight the critical integrity one, because this is where I feel like. 

[00:28:17] Values Wake Up Call

[00:28:17] Kathy Washburn: A, it was a big aha moment for myself, but everybody I work with, when I take them through a values practice and I'm, most of the clients that I work with are between 40 and 60. I have an 84-year-old, which is my outlier, but.

[00:28:34] Kathy Washburn: Every person I've taken through the values practice, it's an aha moment. 

[00:28:39] Andrew Parsons: Oh yeah, 

[00:28:39] Kathy Washburn: absolutely. And it's stunning, right? That we're never invited to just hone in and identify what our values are. And I think Alexander Hamilton said, if we don't know what we stand for, we will fall for anything. 

[00:28:56] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:28:57] Kathy Washburn: That's what happens with burnout.

[00:28:59] Kathy Washburn: [00:29:00] We're falling for anything everybody throws us. One coworker used to say, oh, Anthony, he'll eat anything you put in front of him. And I feel like that's it. Like there's no discernment or no awareness between. How you described it, the difference between what's mine and what's somebody else's. So that values practice in this context of critical integrity.

[00:29:29] Kathy Washburn: Whew. 

[00:29:30] Andrew Parsons: Ooh. It's, you know, being aware of our values. It opens up so many doors, windows, takes, you know, curtains off things for me at least. And I know when I came through, you know, my training, my experience, my aha moments through this as well, you think, ah, that makes sense now. 

[00:29:50] Kathy Washburn: Right? 

[00:29:51] Workplace Values Alignment

[00:29:51] Kathy Washburn: And the workplace.

[00:29:53] Kathy Washburn: Boy, wouldn't it be just an equalizer if I realized that my value [00:30:00] is about connection? Where somebody that I work with, their value is precision. So if something comes up where he's being, you know, given a project because it's very. I don't know, numbers oriented or whatever, and I'm feeling, well, why didn't I get picked?

[00:30:21] Kathy Washburn: Well, when I understand his value is precision. 

[00:30:24] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:30:25] Kathy Washburn: It makes all the sense of the word, like, give it to him. Let's work together. Wow. Is that how you're doing it? And the conscious workplace is, the intention is bringing groups. 

[00:30:40] Andrew Parsons: Oh, de definitely. Yeah. We work with the individual, with the team, with the groups.

[00:30:44] Andrew Parsons: And it's kind of, you know, the, there's me, there's you, there's us, isn't there? That's the on understanding the differences between them are really key. And I think that comes back to the empowerment because it's the all align. Excuse me, it's the alignment. 

[00:30:58] Kathy Washburn: Yes. Let's go back to [00:31:00] the alignment, 

[00:31:01] Andrew Parsons: because they don't need to be the same.

[00:31:05] Andrew Parsons: There needs to be an alignment. And of course that means d for different things, for different people in different contexts. But if we can find in the alignment, we're actually, okay, so my value is this, your value is that. But actually where do we overlap? What our, what we working together to towards that can drive that sense of empowerment, because I have a chance there to participate.

[00:31:28] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. I love that invitation or that marrying of participation and alignment 

[00:31:37] Andrew Parsons: because I think if we don't have that alignment, we're not actively participating. We may be in conflict front of barrier expedition, you know, there's competing of perspectives or, you know, the, you're not going in the same direction 

[00:31:50] Kathy Washburn: or even worse.

[00:31:52] No Bed Angry Rule

[00:31:52] Don’t Go To Bed Angry

[00:31:52] Kathy Washburn: Bitterness, bitterness and resentment, which I don't, there's, I've been reading this book called Something [00:32:00] Hospitality and he talks about he's kind of this big chef in, I don't know, New York City and he's trying to get four Michelin stars or something. So he is really doing everything he can to get this group of very.

[00:32:16] Kathy Washburn: Talented people working together, and one of his big sayings was, don't go to bed angry. And what he meant by that is if you have a conflict or an unresolved frustration with a coworker or yourself, your performance. In the way that you showed up with peers or with the organization in itself, like, don't leave work angry.

[00:32:43] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, you've gotta, you've gotta have this conversation. So he made the environment a safe place to be able to say, Hey, I don't wanna go to bed angry, which was the first step, and this [00:33:00] is what happened today. People were just more receptive to change and vulnerability and forgiveness and awareness versus I'm pissed off.

[00:33:12] Kathy Washburn: I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna tell my partner about it. I'm gonna tell whoever listens about it, I'm gonna feel worse and I'm gonna come back the next day. Bitter, I've just like planted the bitter root. Ugh. 

[00:33:28] Andrew Parsons: So what a wonderful example of an intention, 

[00:33:32] Kathy Washburn: right? Tell me more, 

[00:33:35] Andrew Parsons: because that's a wonderful intention for the today is that I'm, today, just for today.

[00:33:39] Andrew Parsons: You know, and I would say, well, how do I wanna go to bed, happy, calm, but I don't wanna go to bed angry. You that opens up doors to other things. I can then you know, bring in through those skills, of course. And it, it just, it was really interesting. 

[00:33:53] Decompression Rituals

[00:33:53] Decompression Rituals

[00:33:55] Andrew Parsons: We were talking though, I remembered back in the day when I had a when I worked in organizations and such, I, [00:34:00] looking back now, I can see I, I was developing a practice that I didn't know ha.

[00:34:04] Andrew Parsons: Because I, I used to park you know, the furthest pa part of parking stall away from the workplace because you'd end up walking through a little nature path in the woods and things. And it was really lovely. And of course, you know, even though I may have left the door a little bit frustrated or angry or whatever it may be, by the time I'd got to the car, I'd give myself that five minutes of walking in nature.

[00:34:26] Andrew Parsons: Think, oh, you know, it's, you know, I'm on my way home. And that was just my decompression ritual that I didn't know I was doing. But it was implicit. And wouldn't it be great if we can make these things ex, make them more conscious so they become explicit? So we're working with them as a practice.

[00:34:44] Kathy Washburn: Yes. And I don't wanna let this go unnoticed in what that practice. Might have done for you. So I wanna ask if it did do this for you, if you leave the workplace angry, frustrated, [00:35:00] bitter, resentful, whatever word you wanna, and you don't have that time to process, then it bleeds into other areas of your life that had nothing to do with the 

[00:35:14] Andrew Parsons: Yeah.

[00:35:15] Kathy Washburn: With the original thing. So it affects your. Relationships at home. It like it affects your work life balance. 

[00:35:27] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. Oh little ripples 

[00:35:29] Kathy Washburn: all around. This all ripples. So that consciousness becoming aware of, oh, if I don't, if I don't use my skills and solve this here. I'm now aware and I can't be unaware.

[00:35:46] Kathy Washburn: I've now raised awareness that this might come out sideways in a conversation with my partner or my children, or my dog or my parents. 

[00:35:57] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. Or other road users or other [00:36:00] commuters or 

[00:36:00] Kathy Washburn: Other road users. Yes. Wow, what a gift you gave yourself. Is that, did you find that actually was the case when you were able to clear your mind that way?

[00:36:11] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. Where by the time I got home I'd left the, I'D left the work at work. 

[00:36:15] Andrew Parsons: You know, and looking back, I mean, I think we all do this. We all have little structures and little practices that we do because the, in many ways, the body's telling us to do these things, isn't it? And we may not be, you know, totally aware aware of them, you know.

[00:36:27] Andrew Parsons: But that's the bit that comes into that. Being able to notice it and think, oh, what, you know, this is really interesting, isn't it? And this means this and, oh yeah. And I can make some meaning behind this. Now what this means to me, and this is a, this is providing a benefit. 

[00:36:41] EFT And Good Intent

[00:36:41] EFT And Good Intent

[00:36:41] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, that's I think that's why I love EFT tapping so much.

[00:36:44] Kathy Washburn: 'cause I'll often do it when I'm walking my dog, if I'm really frustrated, you know, and I start out like, oh, I'm so aggravated that blah, blah, blah. And I love and accept myself. I'm so aggravated that, and then I start tapping and I do a couple of rounds [00:37:00] and I kinda work through all of the.

[00:37:04] Kathy Washburn: Stickiness that came up and by the time I'm finished and kind of glowing in that EFT glow after EFT glow, I realize, wow, I was making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. Which is often what happens when there is conflict in the workplace. You know, somebody. Hurt you or you felt unseen, unheard and the other person had no, you know, not 99% of the time, the other person had no intent.

[00:37:36] Kathy Washburn: You always have to assume good intent. Did we have a conversation about good intent? I'm sure 

[00:37:41] Andrew Parsons: we did. 

[00:37:41] Kathy Washburn: Yes. Yeah. That assuming good intent goes a long way, right? 

[00:37:46] Andrew Parsons: Goes a long way. It's, you know, give people a break. 

[00:37:50] Kathy Washburn: We're all humans. 

[00:37:51] Andrew Parsons: We're all human. You know, and we're all learning, and what a great learning moment these things can be.

[00:37:56] Andrew Parsons: And I think it comes back to, you know, the power of an emotion. [00:38:00] You know, 'cause the emotion, it really is there to drive you know, behaviors and of course it can be in the body. That can be, you know, it's. Is it in the body or in the mind? You know, it's a great Swiss song around that I think isn't there.

[00:38:13] Andrew Parsons: And it's both, isn't it? It's, but they, there are powerful experiences and the more we can be aware of what the body's telling me, well then they could be more aware of them. And I think all these sematic I see, I call them sematic practices in my world. Yeah. But it's being in the body.

[00:38:31] Kathy Washburn: Yes. Marrying, you know, we do have a mind body. Mind, body as one word. I almost think we need to make a new word called mind, body. 

[00:38:41] Andrew Parsons: Mind, body. It is, it's, it is. 

[00:38:45] Kathy Washburn: We're not separate. And there's, and we have to piece that back together. Because that's where the body is, where our intuition kind of rises, like emotions [00:39:00] are.

[00:39:01] Kathy Washburn: You know, like you said, energy in motion and they're fleeting. They're meant to just give us data so that we can decide, do we run toward or do we run away in this moment? And sometimes our running away without consciousness is, we're running away because of an old, unprocessed emotion that makes us feel similar.

[00:39:27] Kathy Washburn: So it might have happened. Yesterday, last year, but in this moment, we're acting as if it's happening again. So giving that space of reality, you know, when I'm tapping, I'm realizing, oh, that person, you know, I know what's happening. I'm feeling rejected. But really this is not a good ti. This is not good timing for that person.

[00:39:55] Kathy Washburn: I respect that and when it works. Versus I'm being rejected [00:40:00] because I'm an imposter, you know, whatever. Stuff is kind of coming up. But it's that participation in the processing of my own alignment. Like, let me get back to my center of this body in this moment. 

[00:40:20] 

[00:40:20]

[00:40:20] River Of Health

[00:40:20] Andrew Parsons: I think it, what you just described is just brought me back to that continuum of health again.

[00:40:25] Andrew Parsons: Because if you talk to, you know, the health commotion folks around this they used this metaphor of the River of Health and I think it's Ben Lindstrom who created this and a great book actually, the Hitchhiker's Guide to Agenesis, and just put that plug out there. 

[00:40:39] Kathy Washburn: Yeah, 

[00:40:40] Andrew Parsons: that, but in, in the, but we've got this and I think that the river of health just sums it all up for me actually because, you know, health promotion is about swimming freely in the river, isn't it?

[00:40:48] Andrew Parsons: And we might have some education you know, which is, well this is how you swim, teaching people to swim. But then the skills development isn't there. That's the space we're working. You know, we're really targeting with our focus on consciousness [00:41:00] skills. 'cause it enables me to swim well. You know, actually there's protection, there's prevention there's treatment, there's a whole continuum there of support that we all need because, you know, you know, some of us unfortunately, have had you know, more challenges in our lives and that there is an impact on us.

[00:41:18] Andrew Parsons: And, you know, there is a continuum of support we can gather from, you know, mental health professionals, medical professionals, you know, all the way to social support and the skills that we can bring in our lives to stay in the, you know, in the fast lane, if you want to call it that. But I just love that metaphor of that river of health.

[00:41:35] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. 

[00:41:35] Coherence And Mattering

[00:41:36] Kathy Washburn: And I'm hearing in that river of health that those powerful resources or that powerful resourcing, you know, no. Where to go when you're in the Eddy versus where to go when you hit a waterfall. 

[00:41:50] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:41:51] Coherence And Mattering

[00:41:51] Kathy Washburn: You know, this resourcing and there's a whole, I don't know, there's a whole, maybe generation might be too strong a way of [00:42:00] put it, but I think there's a large group of humans that don't feel able to receive.

[00:42:10] Kathy Washburn: You know, there, there's a lot of giving there's a lot of doing. But when somebody, when we need help or when we're offered help or when we, it's hard for us to actually receive it. And maybe that's a worthiness. 

[00:42:27] Andrew Parsons: I 

[00:42:27] Kathy Washburn: don't know, as I'm saying that out loud, what do you think about that? 

[00:42:31] Andrew Parsons: I totally get what you're saying.

[00:42:32] Andrew Parsons: I'm gonna, I'm gonna offer a different maybe way of thinking about it. 

[00:42:35] Kathy Washburn: Please. 

[00:42:37] Andrew Parsons: 'cause I think when we're in a place of coherence, we can access the resources around us more easily.

[00:42:44] Andrew Parsons: And where we're not in that place of coherence, it's a little bit more difficult to access the resources, which could be gifts that are offered to us because actually we're not in a place where we're perhaps as well able to receive them as we could be. [00:43:00] And therefore, coherence is a moderator of our ability to use resources.

[00:43:07] Kathy Washburn: Wow. All I could think of as you're saying that is mattering, coherence, is that sense of mattering. So there's this mo there's there's an ability to understand I matter as much as this other person. 

[00:43:24] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:43:25] Kathy Washburn: Versus, I'm not worthy. 

[00:43:28] Andrew Parsons: I'm here. 

[00:43:30] Kathy Washburn: I'm here. And just by the mere sense of just being here.

[00:43:36] Andrew Parsons: Yeah, it's, you know, it's me, I'm here. And how powerful is that? You know, when, you know, particularly, you know, if you're going through a medical diagnosis or even, you know, towards end of life, you know, I'm here.

[00:43:53] Kathy Washburn: And I'm at, 

[00:43:54] Andrew Parsons: and I'm at, you know, it's you know, I'm important. [00:44:00] Yeah. 

[00:44:00] Kathy Washburn: I'm just as important as the doctor sitting across from me. Yeah. And I have value to add and I can participate. And whatever's happening. I'm not a victim of circumstance, I'm a participant with. 

[00:44:17] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. And there's also a power of choosing not to be a participant.

[00:44:23] Andrew Parsons: And I think that's the, that's a really interesting space, isn't it? Because I can, you know, choose not to be involved. That's empowering, 

[00:44:31] Kathy Washburn: which I think comes back to that critical integrity of understanding. Being aware of your values 'cause the, that no is really an educated no, or our yeses are educated yeses.

[00:44:45] Kathy Washburn: So it is empowering to say no to something that doesn't serve me. 

[00:44:50] Andrew Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:44:52] MRI Story And Powerlessness

[00:44:52] MRI Story And Powerlessness

[00:44:52] Kathy Washburn: Gosh, I had a I had a terrible experience about a year ago where I went to get an MRI. [00:45:00] I was having a lot of problems with my lungs in breathing, and I was really sick going into the MRI, I hadn't been able to sleep. I'd been doing inhaler.

[00:45:10] Kathy Washburn: I can't remember if I went into the ICU after that or if I had just come out of the ICU, doesn't matter. But I went in and I had all my rings on. Now I've had a lot of MRIs because of cancer and. There are signs everywhere to remove jewelry, remove any piercings. They ask you a million questions, do you have implants in your teeth?

[00:45:35] Kathy Washburn: All of this stuff. I didn't remove my rings. The person that brought me into the MRI unit didn't mention anything. He had me take out my hair clip because it was metal, but he never mentioned my rings. So the process starts. I can feel this like crazy vibration on my hands. I was like, [00:46:00] I have never experienced this before, but I didn't say anything.

[00:46:04] Kathy Washburn: There's literally a thing in my hand with a button for me to push in case I have problems. I went through the entire thing, not saying anything, and I came out of it and I, a friend of mine was in their waiting room. I said, we have to look up what I just did to my body. I think I just electrocuted myself.

[00:46:26] Kathy Washburn: And they're like, what? What are you doing? And then they said, well, why didn't you push the button and stop? And I realized it came from this old and I was sick. I didn't feel well. So my old way of being was to just think, oh, I'm gonna be, that's bad. I did a bad thing. They're gonna yell at me, or I am. When I say it, they're gonna feel bad because they should have seen it like we all did something wrong.

[00:46:57] Kathy Washburn: But I didn't wanna be the one to [00:47:00] inflict conflict. This was just a year ago, Andrew. I, it was so embarrassing and I'm thinking about it now 'cause I'm realizing I had no sense of mattering or participation. I was so weak and so. I don't know fed up, frustrated, whatever the word that I didn't show up in that sense of critical integrity, like I mattered.

[00:47:30] Kathy Washburn: So I'm wondering how we get to this place when we're in those places of feeling helpless or powerless. 

[00:47:45] Andrew Parsons: It. Thank you for sharing that. It's so human, isn't it? 

[00:47:49] Energy As A Skill

[00:47:49] Energy As A Skill

[00:47:50] Andrew Parsons: And one of, you know, things from my own experience and working with people, you know, in, in the you know, with cancer, you know, E Energy [00:48:00] is in short supply.

[00:48:01] Andrew Parsons: You know, and you know, and I think that's true in many aspects for life. And if you're feeling run down, you've got problems and you can't sleep very well. Energy is really, you know, anticipating, you know, really strongly. And isn't it interesting then if we make energy the priority? So we've become really intentional about our energy.

[00:48:22] Andrew Parsons: You know, that creates a little bit of a space for us to really understand and it, you know, it depends where we are with all that because when we've got no energy, it's very difficult to be intentional with it. 'cause it's just not there. But actually, the more we can be intentional with it, the more we may be able to manage it.

[00:48:37] Andrew Parsons: And I just wonder whether that's in my experience, you know, working with people that's a way in to have that conversation with people. 'cause actually, if we can manage our energy. You know, and in the moment manage our energy. Then it provides, you know, a different space where we can sort of bring those different choices into play.

[00:48:55] Andrew Parsons: 'cause what's u what's useful for me right now is such a fantastic coaching question. And then [00:49:00] if we can hold that in our mind's eye or you know, or even in the hearts, wherever it is that we hold it, that just creates that a different perspective in that moment. And for me, that's the skill.

[00:49:12] Andrew Parsons: It's, you know, it's something that we can practice because when we need it, it's very difficult to build the skill. But if we can have the skill as part of our, you know, our skillset, something that becomes part of us then actually, you know, something new becomes possible. If that doesn't sound too, 

[00:49:28] Kathy Washburn: oh.

[00:49:28] Kathy Washburn: No. It's such a beautiful way to describe that participation element, because as you're saying that there's. Some element of energy that I can tap onto and asking myself that question of what would be useful right now that would've been asking for help or resourcing myself with the person that brought me there, or even with the person that [00:50:00] came to get me to take me into the MRI and just admitting I'm exhausted.

[00:50:07] Kathy Washburn: You know, I, you might need to like start from A to Z because I can't think right now. I 

[00:50:14] Andrew Parsons: can't think right now. 

[00:50:16] Kathy Washburn: So if I was to do that narrative rewind, I would rewind to that moment when the person came in to get me. I will forever do that moving forward. I don't wanna be electrocuted again. I thought for sure I was gonna have heart issues or something that I did something to electrify myself.

[00:50:36] Kathy Washburn: Gosh, yeah. Energy. 

[00:50:40] Andrew Parsons: Energy and I think that for me is just to, you know, 'cause we, you know, every day is a learning opportunity in my world. I would imagine that's pretty same for all of us. Yeah. And you know, and we learn all the time from these things. And that's part of being conscious, isn't it?

[00:50:54] Andrew Parsons: Because it's how do I apply that for me for the next time? 

[00:50:58] Kathy Washburn: Yeah. And I love [00:51:00] that. I love that little mantra. Every day is an opportunity to learn. Because that just shifts the way that we look at that, that does kinda wake us up to open to, to learn or to be conscious. Wow. Okay. 

[00:51:18] Join The Community

[00:51:18] Join The Community

[00:51:24] Kathy Washburn: So before we, I'm mindful of the time and I really wanna give some space for the conscious workplace and how people can find you, learn more, get involved, I would just love, 'cause I think people are starving for community around this and they may not be finding it in the circles in which they, you know, live, love and work. So is this a community where somebody can kind of go and try on these different things and be supported in this way? 

[00:51:52] Andrew Parsons: Absolutely.

[00:51:52] Andrew Parsons: Fundamentally, what drives us all in, you know, in our team is it's all about our personal professional development and how do we keep learning? How do we keep growing, [00:52:00] how do we keep understanding, you know, ourselves and those around us and sharing. So we really wanna create that place of learning.

[00:52:08] Andrew Parsons: And development. And that can be personally, professionally, it could be us as coaches, as practitioners in as leaders and in businesses. There's, you know, you know, please come take part with a, you know, so it's tc workplace.com. I've got a range of e-learnings and we'll be adding these over the, over, over the next months.

[00:52:28] Andrew Parsons: And so we've been live for about five, six weeks now. We've, 

[00:52:32] Kathy Washburn: congratulations. 

[00:52:34] Andrew Parsons: Oh wow. That your 

[00:52:35] Kathy Washburn: baby has been born. 

[00:52:38] Andrew Parsons: And it's a process, as they say. And we've got a series of webinars coming out in April, may this year, 26th for the tape. But we'll be doing those regularly.

[00:52:47] Andrew Parsons: Please come involved. You know, Jo, you know, connect with us on LinkedIn. We, you know, we're not the experts here that, you know, this is just something we can build together. You know what, I think what we've spent a lot of time thinking about was [00:53:00] at, you know, what, how do we, what are the skills and how do we help you build them?

[00:53:06] Andrew Parsons: You know, that's the key thing for us. And, you know, one size doesn't fit all. That's what I've learned so many times and but there are principles that we can apply. 

[00:53:15] Kathy Washburn: Yes. And such a beautiful invitation, and I'm gonna be there. In fact, that's what inspired this conversation with Andrew. I have been looking for a space to play in for a while now.

[00:53:28] Kathy Washburn: Just to challenge me a little more, I love learning and I don't think I ever stop, but learning in community is a powerful generator of energy for me and, to be able to dive into a place that has dynamic, critical, heightened, intentional, and powerful energy buzzing in it. I hope to see you there.

[00:53:55] Andrew Parsons: Thank you. See you there. 

[00:53:57] Kathy Washburn: Yes. Thank you, Andrew. 

[00:53:58] Dynamic Stillness Pill

[00:53:58] Dynamic Stillness Closing

[00:53:58] Kathy Washburn: Now, I always ask this question, and I don't remember what you said a couple years ago, but if I were to crush your essence up and put it in a pill form, what magical things would happen to a person taking that pill?

[00:54:15] Andrew Parsons: I think for me, the essence at the moment is that place of dynamic stillness

[00:54:24] Andrew Parsons: because with that, many of the other skills can build ease more easily. 

[00:54:30] Kathy Washburn: I just sensed 20 people searching 

[00:54:33] Kathy Washburn: yes, TC workplace do.com Because who wouldn't wanna take that pill of dynamic stillness? They can get it there, right? They can get it there.

[00:54:44] Andrew Parsons: We can all be Aing Bird. 

[00:54:46] Kathy Washburn: Oh gosh. If only. 

[00:54:48] Final Thanks And Wrap

[00:54:48] Kathy Washburn: Thank you Andrew. I am so grateful for your gift of time and the way that you share your genius with the world is quite spectacular. Thank you. 

[00:54:59] Andrew Parsons: [00:55:00] Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. 

[00:55:02]

[00:55:43] ​