Formula for Joy + Resiliency with Matthew Lesko (part 1)

Matthew Lesko bursts onto the Reignite Resilience podcast with the same vibrant energy that made him famous as "The Question Mark Guy" from those unforgettable infomercials. Now 81 years young and sporting his signature colorful blazer covered in smiley faces, Lesko drops wisdom bombs that challenge everything we've been taught about success.

"If I knew being 81 was going to be this much fun, I would have got here a lot faster," he declares, revealing that his boundless vitality comes from one counter-intuitive source: giving. After decades spent helping Americans access billions in government grants and resources, Lesko has discovered that giving is actually the most selfish act possible—because nothing generates more personal joy.

The conversation takes a fascinating turn as Lesko breaks down our economy into two distinct segments: the 60% driven by capitalism that wants to take your money, and the 40% "community society" sector (government and nonprofits) designed to give money away. Most people never tap into this second sector because they don't know how to find it. Using practical tools like FindHelp.org, Lesko demonstrates how listeners can discover thousands of organizations offering financial assistance in their own zip codes.

What truly sets this episode apart is Lesko's passionate belief in authenticity. After years of trying to follow other people's formulas for success—wearing Armani suits and starting businesses that failed—he realized that resilience can only come when you're doing something your heart truly desires. "You're a petunia or you're a rose," he explains. "The hard part in life is figuring out which one you are, and you only do that through trial and error while listening to your heart."

Ready to discover the hidden resources available to you and embrace what makes you uniquely qualified to help others? Subscribe now and learn why your "weird" qualities might actually be your greatest assets.

The Quiet Gift: A Journey of Self Worth and Resilience is now available for download as an audible.  Check it out!

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. Resilience where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

Speaker 2 0:41

Welcome back to another episode of Reignite Resilience. I am your co-host, natalie Davis, and I am so excited to be back with all of you today. And joining me, of course, is our fabulous co-host, pam Kass. Pam, how are you today?

Speaker 3 0:54

I am good and we were just kind of laughing, because we go through these periods where we are like together every day for like seven days recording, and I don't even remember the last time we recorded and it was like we were brand new, like we didn't even know what to do, we forget everything.

Speaker 2 1:10

I literally got on and I was like what's my name? What am I doing? Where am I? What day is it?

Speaker 3 1:16

I think we've had a lot on our plate for the third month of the year, but-. I'm happy I dropped off all of my tax stuff to my accountant today, so I'm just like all right now I'm ready to start living exactly, you can breathe again.

Speaker 2 1:30

I'm looking for the email from my gal Stacy. It's coming, don't worry, I'll get it to you. It's fine, I love my goodness. Well, we have a fabulous guest joining us today and I'm so excited for us to just hop in, because if you think that Pam and I are high energy, just wait. No idea what is in store for people today. Yes, so, pam, why don't you tell our listeners who's joining us?

Speaker 3 1:58

Absolutely so. Today we have a truly one of a kind guest. You might recognize him as the question mark guy, or from his unforgettable infomercial and TV appearance that showed millions of Americans how to unlock government grants and benefits. Matthew Lesko has spent over four decades uncovering ways for people to access funds they never knew were available, and he sold over 4 million books in the process. Now, at the very young age of 81, matthew is still on a mission to help others through his platform, lesko Help, where he's guiding a community of thousands towards the resources they need. Let's dive into the world of free money with the one and only Matthew Lesko. Welcome, welcome, so excited for you to be here. Hi, I'm going to pass it to you. Tell us your story.

Speaker 2 2:53

Well, here's the thing. I feel that our listeners they hear free money and their ears perk up like what is happening.

Meet Matthew Lesko: The Question Mark Guy

Speaker 4 3:01

I'm just trying to have as much fun as possible before I die. I feel as I get older and older. Part of this was when I was younger. But the more you give, the happier you are. It's the secret. Giving is so selfish. The most selfish thing you're going to do in the world is give. We don't train that, not in capitalism. It's hard to feel that in a capitalist society, but now I have more energy now to do anything. I'm 81 now, and if I knew being 81 was going to be this much fun, I would have got here a lot faster. Ooh.

Speaker 2 3:37

I love that.

Speaker 4 3:38

All the stuff that you thought was important is out, it doesn't matter. And I went through a lot of stuff and doing all that and really the answer is giving. It is just remarkable how many people are struggling out there and what we have to do, I feel, is you help people do what they want to do. I mean, the experts give you five reasons or five steps to be a millionaire or something they don't know and that maybe worked for, worked for them, but it was not going to work for you. And that's why you talk about resilience.

Speaker 4 4:09

And inside, I mean I think that's when things changed for me, got an MBA, computers back in the 70s, and a software company had failed and another company had failed. So I was doing everything that people told me I should do. I wasn't successful and I wasn't having fun and I said, shit, this looks like a lousy life. No fun, no success. Every day is like going to the dentist and I said that's crazy. Why do people do that? Then I realized that because I'm taking stuff from outside, I'm taking other people's ideas or whatever. Not that it's all bad. I mean, you get little tricks and helps from other people, but you're never going to be able to give as much as you can or love as much as you can, unless it comes from the inside and when it's a personal relationship, I see no difference between a personal relationship and a professional relationship. It's helping people do what they want to do, but we love to tell people what to do Exactly. That's so much fun.

Speaker 2 5:10

They all like me Exactly.

Speaker 4 5:13

And they're not. So I mean, if you love somebody, you just tell me what to do and I'll help you do that. You want my opinion about how stupid it is? Fine, but everything is stupid. Everything is doing. I remember my kids when they started to walk. They'd crawl over to the coffee table and pick themselves up and take a step and fall on their ass. I knew they had to do that, but they failed. Why'd you try to walk? You failed, you stupid little shit.

Speaker 2 5:36

Exactly, yeah, and they could have thrown in the towel at that moment.

Speaker 4 5:40

They could have thrown in the towel and said we're done moment they could have thrown in the towel and said we're done. Exactly that. I'd be pushing them around in a wheelchair.

Speaker 2 5:46

Exactly so, the same with all of us.

The Joy of Giving to Others

Speaker 4 5:47

When we want to do something in life, it's that. Think of riding a bicycle, think of when you had to work. You have to fail and your loved ones, to me, are your biggest enemy because they know all the ways you're going to fail. To me, the way to handle that is just say I know, because you have to go through that failing process, no matter what you do. Anybody with any mind could find 10 ways this isn't going to work. That you want to do, that's okay, but you have to have that resilience to get through all that stuff, because otherwise you have to go through it and there's no shortcut. You think there is and you're fooling yourself. I got so fucking lucky.

Speaker 2 6:22

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 6:24

It doesn't need any more money that's right, I'm done he's an outlier, forget it exactly and that's what you have to do.

Speaker 4 6:34

and so to help somebody is to be there for them, to help them do whatever they want to do, because we're all struggling. I mean, what gives any of us the audacity to think that we could tell somebody else what to do with their lives? We don't even know what to do with our own life. I struggle with it every day and I'm doing more than I ever thought I would be doing, but still I mean it's like you're stupid shit. Why'd you think of doing that? No, they think about it all the time and this is what they came up with.

Speaker 2 6:58

Yeah, you never let it go.

Speaker 4 7:00

Yeah. So you're going to have to love that person and help them do whatever it is until they find out it's not for them. Because what is inside of us is the best we have. Like this is me inside and until I got this stuff out, like I used to wear Armani suits, I was a close horse. Expensive stuff and, by the way aside, funky is cheap. You can see how cheap this material is. When you buy expensive stuff, you're worried about the number of threads and the quality of the material. Nobody sees that. They just see a cloud. This costs nothing yeah, but it's you. To me, success in life is giving the best you have. Success in life is not sitting around and doing nothing.

Speaker 2 7:49

I don't know why we live in a society we think that doing nothing is. Who is that? Is that the guy with all the money? It is, it's the gentleman that doesn't need any more. That's it.

Speaker 4 8:03

How do we find out what's inside of us? That's the hard thing, and nobody can find that out except us. By trying and failing, trying and failing to find out what it is. And then you get to a point when you find out what it really is, you're not working anymore. It's not work. I haven't worked in 50 years. I just can't wait to get it done. I can't wait to do it tomorrow. It's not even midnight yet. Yeah.

Speaker 2 8:20

Looking forward to the next day.

Speaker 4 8:22

That's the joy. It's helping people. So helping people motivates me more than anything else. Capitalism nice, because at least it's a way to count if you're doing something of value.

Speaker 4 8:36

A lot of us want the shit that we think they should have. They want it. Capitalism tells you, if they're not buying it, then what the hell are you doing it for? That's not it. That's satisfying yourself. So that's like sort of like masturbating. No, you want to make love to people? Yeah, love with somebody else and help people and see how you can help their life, and that gives you joy, not just trying to make everybody want what you think everybody should have.

Speaker 4 8:58

It's too complicated out there and the joy is in that process, that's. The other thing is that the process, no matter what happens, if you have goals, goals to me are stupid, I mean in some forms. But you start, and I saw myself when I was younger. I had a goal, so I'd find ways to cut the edges to get there. Yeah, I can get this goal, I can get this number or whatever. So you may not be as ethical or oh, everybody does it that way, I'll do it too. There's so many ways to do that.

Discovering Hidden Government Resources

Speaker 4 9:29

So that's why the joy in life is doing something that you admire yourself for doing, and then you can live for something higher than just getting that next number. I mean, you have to feed yourself, you have to do all that stuff and take care of yourself first, and that's very important. But then how much? I mean we live in a society more, more, more, more, more. Why are these billionaires in town figuring out how to get more money from the government? Jesus Christ, don't they have enough yet? What's more than trying to go to the moon or wherever the hell they're trying to go, because they know the government has more money than anybody else in the world and it gives out to people. And actually I was thinking I was just finding out a program in Colorado. You can get $200,000 grant to help buy your boss's business.

Speaker 2 10:16

Oh really.

Speaker 4 10:18

Yeah, that's a program in Colorado, programs like that. See, the average person has no idea. You don't have to be Jeff Bezos to do all this kind of stuff. You just have to know.

Speaker 4 10:27

What people don't realize is our country is made up of two big things. This is our economy, the whole economy. There's two portions of. One is capitalism, and that's the orange part, or yellow, whatever that is, and that's 60 percent. But 40 percent is what I call the community society. This is the government and nonprofit organizations. Ok, capitalism wants to get your money. That's how they survive and grow and things like that. This side 40 percent want to give you money and people don't know how to do this. What they're doing is going to Google and all they get is this stuff People want to get your money. They don't know how to do this, and that's what I'm trying to do and will do for the rest of my life, as much as I got, to learn how people do that. Because right now, let's say, okay, you're in real estate, can you go online? I'll show you a website.

Speaker 2 11:14

Sure.

Speaker 4 11:15

Now let's say okay you're in real estate, can you go?

Speaker 2 11:19

online.

Speaker 4 11:19

I'll show you a website. Sure, absolutely Go to findhelporg. Okay, put in your zip code. Okay, then up in this top side, there you'll see a search bar and put in rent. Where do you put in rent? It showed you a number in the middle of that.

Speaker 2 11:32

It did.

Speaker 4 11:33

And what was that number? My number was 2,450. That means there's 2,450 non-profit organizations or government offices that give away money in your zip code. Wow, now you're going to go specifics and so you look at rent, yes, and how many you get there.

Speaker 2 11:51

Now we have 58 options here.

Speaker 4 11:53

So there's 58 organizations. So you have a tenant that can't pay the rent. What you want to do is show them that Wow, because there's 58 organizations that are going to help you pay your rent. To you, the landlord, I say people don't know that. They'll go to Google. Actually, if you put rent grants in Google, you get 250 million websites. What are you going to do with that? Nothing. None of these websites that give you money will be in there because they have to pay Google.

Speaker 2 12:22

To appear.

Speaker 4 12:23

That's the problem and it's like anything you want to start a business, okay, real estate, say. You want to grow your real estate business, or whatever you're doing. If you have money you go to Google okay, but people don't have money. You have options, but they don't know that Most people don't have money. The way I learned this stuff, I was a consultant for Fortune 500 companies and I'd go all this stuff and get all this money and help for them and make them millionaires into billionaires from these programs. I said shit, why doesn't everybody?

Speaker 3 12:50

do this. We need to look up podcasts Exactly, absolutely A. We need to look up podcasts Exactly.

Speaker 4 12:53

Absolutely A good place to start. And what you want to do. You don't want to find the application. You want to find organizations that are nonprofit or government run, that are experts in helping problems like yours. So they're solving small business problems every day, hundreds of people, and they know the programs like the $200,000 to buy out your boss and all these kind of things that they're going to know because it's different in every city. So you go to this website it's called SBA, but you're not going to talk to the SBA. This is a database. They have SBAgov G-O-V and then slash local hyphen assistance.

Speaker 2 13:31

And we will make sure that we drop these in the show notes as well for all of our listeners, so that you can easily access these spagov dash local, no slash slash backslash local hyphen assistance okay.

Speaker 4 13:44

Do you have a place to put in your zip code again?

Speaker 2 13:47

yes, there is put in your zip code within my zip code there is one of one sBA resource partner.

Speaker 4 13:55

That's odd. Where the hell do you guys live?

Speaker 2 13:56

I did a 25 mile radius. Should I do a 50 mile radius? We're right outside of the Denver area.

Finding Your Authentic Self

Speaker 4 14:05

Something's wrong there. Are you looking down far enough? Maybe I'll look at the first one of you. Go down a little lower.

Speaker 2 14:11

I went a little bit further and I have five options.

Speaker 4 14:13

Okay, so you have five yeah five options yes.

Speaker 4 14:16

Each one of those are nonprofit or government that are there to help businesses start or expand with anything they need, whether it's money, technical help, legal help, accounting help, anything. Anybody selling you on Google is here for free. They don't advertise. That's what frustrates me, because people don't know and actually it's all about calling, and best thing to do on these is you call, call one or two, make an appointment to talk to somebody, because you have options and if somebody's sort of like finding a realtor, I don't like this person. You go no same way with these. They're not the only game in town. Important that they see you as much as possible With information. Now, to me it's a human game. It's not an IT game anymore. There's too much crap on the internet and people don't want to help robots anymore.

Speaker 4 15:05

The people who are doing something were free, so that's why you know it's fun to help a human yes get your face in front of them and sort of like I'm sure you're selling real estate, you know it's people.

Speaker 2 15:16

People aren't going to give you their money by just your email address or something exactly it's the same way with them well, and I think people enjoy working with other humans as well. I think so often when we are reaching out to some of these companies or organizations and we have to get through the bots before connecting with an actual live person. It's nice to have that connection.

Speaker 4 15:37

And it's the same, because they're giving you money or help or whatever it is and you're not paying them. They get paid, no matter what they do. So if you're shitty to them, they'll just hang up on you. It doesn't matter, that's it. Rather answer the phone. Somebody will be nice to me on you, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 15:50

That's it. Rather answer the phone. Somebody's going to be nice to me, matthew. I'm just intrigued because one I can't imagine you starting out your career from a standpoint from the computer side, where you're not really in a space where you get to help other people and have your creative expression as well. For our listeners that don't know, he's referenced his blazer a few moments ago and and it's a bright, smiley face-covered blazer with heart eyes and a red turtleneck and red trim glasses as well.

Speaker 4 16:19

Takes a lot of work.

Speaker 2 16:21

Yes, but you mentioned realizing, as you were in that space, that you weren't really happy. You said you weren't having fun. That's the key piece that you were not having fun In that time. Take us back to that. You don't just get up and quit your job or maybe you did.

Speaker 4 16:39

What did that transition? Look like I'd start a business and fail. Go to work for somebody in six months. It was fucking jail.

Heart Over Brain: The Path Forward

Speaker 4 16:45

So, I kept doing that until I was able to find something that worked, and the things that started work when I was telling you earlier, maybe, about how I started looking inside of me, all these seminars about how to make money and all this kind of stuff and trying to do it everybody else's way. Well, it wasn't for me, and I think all of us All of us are so special but we're trying to copy other people that are special in their stuff. You can't copy somebody else's special shit. You got your own. We're all like a plant or a tree and we have to be in the right pot to grow. If you're a petunia, you got to be in a certain pot for you to grow and you're not going to be a rose, no matter how much you're trying to be that.

Speaker 4 17:26

The hard part, I think, in life is finding out you're a petunia, yeah, or you have something else. You don't know what the hell you are, yeah, and you only do that by trial and error and listening to your heart. This was years and years ago. I started this, your heart. I remember advising one of my kids on a big change in his career and I said your heart is smarter than your brain. You could always have ways to do things, whatever right or wrong, and everybody can tell you whatever, but your heart has to be there. So you have to listen to your heart, and listening to your heart is the way you can grow the most as you can. In other words, like love for an individual relationship or your professional relationships. Giving your talents to other people if you love doing it, you're not going to work. Giving your talents to other people if you love doing it, you're not going to work. Personal relationships are that way too. You loved it. Well, you know you're sort of an asshole. I ain't got nothing better to do.

Speaker 2 18:19

We'll make it work, it's fine.

Speaker 4 18:22

Yeah. And then, though, you can't give as much as you want, you know.

Speaker 3 18:26

that's why we pick up a little baby a little puppy and we ought to just pour our hearts out. I love that I heard somebody call it your unique genius.

Speaker 4 18:40

To me, one of the ways to find out is when anybody tells you it's weird about you.

Speaker 2 18:41

that's probably your excuse. Don't dim that part of you. That's the part that you need to lean into more. Yes, yeah, you got to blow that up.

Speaker 4 18:53

And now when I see, when I was starting out 60s, 70s or whatever yeah, you need a hundred thousand dollars to do anything. Now people think they need a million. But that's stupid stuff too. You don't. You need a customer to do anything, the only thing is a customer. You don't even need llc or any of that bullshit until you get a customer.

Action Over Preparation

Speaker 4 19:06

People go out and want to start something. Well, I better get an LLC, I better get the right address. Prepare to prepare, to prepare, to prepare. Yeah, I mean, people buy millions of books to me. They don't ask me if I have an LLC. Yes, and that's the easy part Spending money on anything.

Speaker 4 19:23

That's why people don't succeed. I think they're getting in businesses. They are starting things somebody else told them to make money at, or starting things somebody else told them to make money at. Their heart isn't in it and so they give up. And if your heart's in it because that's what takes it you know the resilience comes from desire. Not going to have the resilience if you don't want to have flex. It's sort of like a bad relationship. I don't got to beat up every day, I got to get out of here. This is me, so you have to have the desire. That's why you listen for your heart about things and that gives you the desire. I used to wear only question marks because I thought if you ask the right question you can get the right answer. The problem is asking what the right question is. But now I feel that's still true. But if your heart's not in it, it's not going to happen. Anything you do in life is a pain in the ass. Yes, that's the definition of life If it's not a pain in the ass.

Speaker 4 20:09

Yes, that's the definition of life. If it's not a pain in the ass, you're not living or doing much. That's it Only way you're going to get through. That is with your heart. You want to be there than anything else. That's personal and professional. That's what's cool about life and everybody has that. And now, with the internet like now, I thought I needed $100,000, $200,000 to start a store. So now, for $20, I got a store on Etsy.

Speaker 2 20:35

That's exactly right.

Speaker 4 20:36

And you as service businesses. You just need a customer.

Speaker 2 20:39

Absolutely.

Speaker 4 20:40

You waste your time doing all that other stuff. You want to know if you're going on business, so first find out if you can get a customer.

Speaker 2 20:47

You're spot on so many people will focus on well, I've got to find the right name of the business. I got to create the bank account and form the LLC, and they will spend so much time on the things that keep them busy because they feel like they're making progress in their business, right, well, I'm working on my business. I just spent four weeks putting my website together and that's the celebration. But the celebration is in the sale, right? If you have something, a service or a value to provide, it's got to be saleable. So can you sell that to someone and is someone willing to pay for it?

Speaker 4 21:17

That's the hard part. So you're doing all that stuff, all the easy part, which is spending money, then the hard part is getting customers. Then again say to me what happens. Is you then think you have to spend money to get customers? Right you then think you have to spend money to get customers Right, and you don't. I lived with that and I still do that now.

Speaker 1 21:36

Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas. To fuel the flames of passion, please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes and, of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.