Bursting Into Flames + Resiliency with Pam & Natalie (part 1)

What happens when a self-proclaimed chatterbox commits to three days of complete silence? In this vulnerable and eye-opening episode, co-host Pam Kass shares her journey through a silent meditation retreat that transformed her perspective on self-worth, connection, and being.

"I am going to burst into flames," Pam repeatedly told herself before the retreat, certain she couldn't survive without talking, writing, reading, or even doing simple chores. The initial hours proved challenging as her internal dialogue grew louder in the silence. But as the retreat progressed, something unexpected happened—visual phenomena began appearing during meditation sessions, starting with deep purples forming eye-like shapes that eventually transformed into beautiful kaleidoscopic patterns of pink and blue.

The most profound moment came when the retreat guide posed a question that brought Pam to tears: "If you can believe yourself to be everything, what are the conditions to being that?" This simple query unlocked a powerful realization about the countless conditions we place on our own worthiness and value. Through Rumi's concept of being both "the drop in the ocean and the ocean in the drop," Pam discovered a new perspective on connection and belonging that transcends the ego-driven narratives we typically live by.

Whether you're curious about meditation retreats, struggling with questions of self-worth, or simply interested in what happens when we finally stop the constant noise of modern life, this episode offers insights that may inspire your own journey inward. Have you ever wondered what you might discover if you gave yourself permission to simply be? Listen now and consider what conditions you might be ready to release.

The Quiet Gift: A Journey of Self Worth and Resilience is now available for download as an audible.  Check it out!

Transcript

Introducing Reignite Resilience

Speaker 1 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. Resilience where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

Speaker 2 0:41

Welcome back to another episode of Reignite Resilience. I am your co-host, Natalie Davis, and I am joined by Pam Kass today. Hello Pam, how are you? Hello?

Speaker 3 0:51

I am fabulous. You and I are trying to survive this 100 degree weather.

Speaker 2 0:56

It's been hot and sticky Well, and I just got back to town. I was in Texas all week, san Antonio to be exact, and I won't say anything about the temperature there, but it was hot, it was moist. And then I got out of my car here in Colorado and I was like wait, I brought it back with me, but you didn't bring the moist, just the hot, because nobody wants to be traveling with moist. Oh my gosh, exactly no one. No one needs that.

Speaker 3 1:24

It's going to be hot. I don't want it to also be moist. Give me some heat.

Saying Yes to a Silent Retreat

Speaker 2 1:28

Oh my gosh, it is a balmy time of year, but I am excited. You and I, we have some things to talk about. Actually, you've got some things to talk about. I'm not going to talk about anything, I'm just curious. I'll be here in silence. I'm curious because we had a little bit of a sneak peek into what you were going into last weekend. It would have been last weekend in terms of timing, so for those that are listeners, it's been a week since I connected with Pam and you shared that you were going to have a three-day silent retreat or be a part of a three-day silent retreat, and you've made it through. I did. It was like the third day. I sent a text and I was like you can talk again.

Speaker 3 2:10

It was funny because I shut my phone off, like so I didn't have it on, so yeah.

Speaker 2 2:15

Tell us about it. First of all, let's talk about how you got yourself into the situation. How did you say yes? Because I think a year ago we caught wind of a mutual friend and mentor that was doing a silent retreat and both of us looked at each other and were like no, we're not doing that? No, we don't want to have that much time with ourselves. Fast forward, here you are, and you did yes.

Speaker 3 2:36

So it was so funny because I knew the weekend was coming. I kept getting the invitations and register and I was like, no, I don't think so, I'm too busy. I got stuff to do. Then something came up and I was going to be out of town. So I was like yes, don't have to do it.

Speaker 2 2:55

And then I was like well, there's another one in January, so maybe I'll do it then. Yeah, whatever, and so it's a good time of year. January is. I was like we'll do that.

Speaker 3 3:01

And so then being out of town for the weekend got canceled and I was like, all right, girl, you don't have any excuse, so just register for it. And you know, you register for it like a month in advance and then you get the prep stuff like, okay, this is the stuff that you need to do before the session and how to prepare for it. Blah, blah, blah. And I literally had this dialogue in my head. I'm like I am going to burst into flames. And I literally had this dialogue in my head. I'm like I am going to burst into flames, I'm not going to be able to do this, I'll just cheat, I'll just, you know, maybe check my phone. Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 3:30

And so it was probably two days before and I'm like you know what, if you're going to do this, like just do it, just go all in. So I set all my notifications. I had somebody cover for my business, the kids were going to be home. I moved upstairs, so I've got an office, jack and Jill bathroom and then a bedroom, so I just moved up here. I was like I'm just going to be up here like a retreat, something different. And we started Friday at three o'clock and that first hour was her just prepping us?

Speaker 2 3:59

Well, hold on, hold on. How do you prep the people in your life? I mean, I just told everybody Grandkids, you just told everyone I'm not available.

Speaker 3 4:08

Silent retreat, I cannot talk. She encouraged that you could eat dinner with family if they were at home, but you couldn't make eye contact and I was like, well, I'm not going to do that. That was kind of weird. You can exercise, which made me happy. You can take naps, so, which made me happy. You can take naps, so like if during one of the meditation sessions you're like you know I'm tired, I'm going to nap. You can nap, you can be out in nature. So I went on a lot of walks, but you can't listen to music, you can't listen to a book, you can't read, you can't write. The writing part was the hardest for me, because I'm a writer. I'll come up with a thought. I'm like crap, write that down, because you know, yeah, something. So we couldn't do anything, okay. So she kind of prepped us and I'm like.

Day One: Rules and First Meditations

Speaker 2 4:49

So, as you're reading all of these, like all of the instructions, the preparation leading up to it, you're like, yep, I'm going to burst into flames. This is going to happen. This is it. Yes 100.

Speaker 3 5:00

So we have that from three to four, was her telling us about it and then she goes all right, now you have a 20 minute break and then tell your family goodbye, that you're not talking now until Sunday at seven.

Speaker 2 5:10

Just say your final goodbye.

Speaker 3 5:12

I was like dude, I went downstairs and I talked like rapid fire talking Cause I'm like I'm not going to be able to talk for a little bit, Like you can't even talk to your dogs or your cats or your animals or anything Like you, just like nothing.

Speaker 2 5:23

And no chores. Oakley was not able to come up.

Speaker 3 5:25

No, you couldn't do any chores either, okay, like making a bed or throwing in a load of laundry or anything, the little things that keep us busy. The morning routine couldn't do it and I had my whole morning routine so that night. So that was from three to four and then four to 4.40, 4.40 to 5.30, we did, was it? I can't remember. But anyway, we did our first 40 minute meditation, and meditation was unguided so it was just silence. Okay, so it was 40 minutes of just silence and that pretty much anything, truly silence.

Speaker 3 5:59

Okay, yeah, we could have candles going, which she encouraged, which I did, but nothing. And so for me that looked a lot like me inside my head, saying how are you going to do this? What are we doing? What are you doing? Don Stop thinking, be quiet. It was just like inside my head and I'm like, well, this is going to suck for two and a half days this is what this is like.

Speaker 2 6:20

You're like I just quieted everything around me so that I can amplify the voices in my head. Yeah, and they were loud as heck.

Speaker 3 6:27

And so I'm like, oh my God. And then we had a dinner break for an hour, okay. And then we came back and we meditated for 40 minutes again. So you would meditate for 40 minutes, take a 20 minute break, meditate 20 minute break, and then the guide she had two times that she would talk, like on Saturday and Sunday, and then at the end of Saturday and Sunday she did two hour block where people could ask questions. So at that point you could talk if you wanted to, but she would just pick people.

Speaker 3 6:57

So, mind you, we had about 30 people in person at the retreat center I chose to be at home because I wanted to be able to sit on the floor and whatever and then we had about 38 people from around the world that were on Zoom, and so we had our Zoom on like the whole time. My mind did not stop Friday night and I'm like this is going to be the longest weekend of my life and of course it ends at nine and I'm like, okay, well, can't do anything, just going to go to bed so I got up in the morning.

Speaker 2 7:23

Also, side note that became your mantra. Like, whether you realize it or not, right, like that becomes the affirmation. It's like this is going to be a long weekend or I'm going to burst into flames. What you're saying and repeating to yourself are the actual things that you're creating.

Speaker 1 7:36

So you go to bed at nine o'clock.

Speaker 2 7:37

You're like I can do this day one down.

Speaker 3 7:40

Got this. I got that six hours down. I'm like I got this. You know tomorrow's only six hours to go. It's only 8am to 9pm tomorrow, but easy, and so the problem is is I get up early, and so I actually did sleep in till six but, that's two hours, and so I'm like, what the hell am I going to do for two hours?

Speaker 3 8:00

I can't do my morning routine, which I like to do. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to make my coffee, I'm going to sit on the porch and just stare into nothingness, which is what I did. I just sat there and it was quiet and just watch the trees. And then we started. At eight o'clock we did a meditation and in that meditation it was different. There were like these dark lines that would like start coming down Like I could see it with my eyes closed coming down, and then it turned into an eyeball and I was like, well, that's interesting. And then the cornea of the eyeball turned this like deep purple and I was like, well, that's weird. And then it started to it would be the center of the eye, and then it would be the eye close and then that would become the center of the next eye and it was just like this loop of this eye and this purple. And then it started like everything became purple and I'm'm like, well, this is interesting. Okay, at least I quieted my mind.

Speaker 2 8:53

Yes, and gave yourself time to observe it right, and gave myself to observe it yeah.

Speaker 3 8:58

And so then, after that meditation, we took our 20 minute break and then came back and she led us through something, and she talked about this disconnecting from our ego. We all have this ego. Disconnecting from our ego. We all have this ego and, if you think about it, every single task that we do is feeding our ego, that we do something that makes us feel good. You know, I make my bed because it makes my bed look good and it makes me feel good. So every single task that we do, everything it's because we're feeding our ego. And she said what we want to do is not only detach from our ego, but identify ourself as being no one. We are no one.

Speaker 3 9:38

Then she went into Rumi talking about the drop in the ocean, and so she walked us through a drop in the ocean, but then we are the ocean in the drop, and so basically, what it came to was we are everything, so we're not this earth suit that she calls it, because everything has energy. We are all connected. And I was like okay, that was like so interesting. And then she said so, if you can believe yourself to be everything, to be that, what are the conditions to being that? That made me cry. I was like why am I getting emotional about this? I'm like this is weird and so I thought that was like really interesting.

Speaker 3 10:18

Then we did a meditation and that time I saw the purples again, but then there was pinks. That came in there too and it was almost like the center of the cornea was the colors, but it was almost looked like a kaleidoscope. It was like kind of like this weird movement with the colors and I was like, well, this is really interesting. I'm like, okay, go to lunch and it's two hour lunch break. I'm like what the hell am I going to?

Speaker 2 10:42

do Eat very, very slow.

Speaker 3 10:52

I'm like, okay, no TikTok, no social media. So I took my dog on a long walk, ate, lunch, and then I was sitting there on the patio with the dog and I just start to cry because I was thinking about what she said. What conditions are there to you being everything? And I was like, holy crap, I'm just going to speak for myself. It's an I statement. I have put so many conditions on my life Like I have to do this, I have to be this to prove my worth. How can you believe yourself to be everything if you don't believe you to be even worthy to be the person in this earth suit?

Speaker 2 11:22

The you, yes, exactly.

Speaker 3 11:23

Yes. So I was like, boo, okay, mind blown a little bit. So we came back from lunch and that meditation, I could not meditate. I actually felt nauseous and I was dizzy and I'm like, okay, I don't feel good and so I powered through it. I could not focus and so for the next break she said take a nap. So I'm like I'm going to lie on the. I had a pillow on the floor, I lied on the floor, I'm going to lie on the floor, take a nap during this 20 minute break. And she would just do chimes to bring us back. So the chimes went.

Unexpected Revelations and Colorful Visions

Speaker 3 11:53

I was like you know what? I still don't feel great. I'm going to hearing mom clear as day. I leap forward, throw my blanket off. I'm like, what Kids aren't in the house? Nobody's here. I have no idea what that was. It was weird and I lied back down and I slept for the rest of the meditation in the next break and then I did the next meditation and that I was able to get back in focus and I actually a brilliant blue and a pink, and now it was like the whole thing was like a kaleidoscope of different colors and then at one, point Instead of those darker colors that you had started with.

Speaker 2 12:36

Yes, I mean still pretty right, like the deep still pretty but those are the darker.

Speaker 3 12:42

Yes probably heavier. You know, at that point there wasn't the eye anymore. It was literally like a kaleidoscope of different colors coming together and it was beautiful. And then there was a butterfly and I was like okay, and so we did that. And then that evening people were asking questions and talking about this and one lady got on and asked the question. She goes during one of my meditations, a number, a big number, came up and it was the same number, and she goes I'm just curious, what does that mean? And she goes, instead of trying to think through what that means, just say to yourself well, that's curious, that must have some meaning. Period, and that's it. And so I didn't get on to ask her because I'm like, okay, I got woken up to someone saying mom, that's interesting, I wonder if that means something. Period, there's all these colors, that's interesting. That must mean something. Period, don't try to think it.

Speaker 2 13:39

Yeah, cause we want to assign value to it, right?

Speaker 3 13:41

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 13:42

Justify it. It has to mean something.

Speaker 1 13:45

It was a message, it was download, it was a whatever.

Speaker 3 13:46

What was it.

Speaker 2 13:47

Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 13:49

And that night we ended at nine. I went to bed. I slept nine hours. Wow, I've never slept that long in my life and I thought that was so wild that I think the emotions of all of it the stillness, the quiet, the just everything completely just drained me of every ounce of everything that I had. Yeah, 100%, it was absolutely awesome.

Speaker 2 14:12

Well, I think, when you're doing any type of spiritual work and plug in, whatever your practice is, if it's meditation, if it's prayer, if it's reflection, if you're chanting, whatever it is, whatever you do, when you're truly putting yourself in that state, it is an emotional experience and so your spiritual body is kind of woken up right. It's not just your physical body, but we feel it in this physical human form and we have to rest it. But when you're putting yourself in that state for such a condensed period of time I know that it's three days and you were like, oh my gosh, it's three days, yeah, that it's three days. And you were like, oh my gosh, it's three days, yeah, but it's three days. Like, imagine you've got years of life that you've never done this and now you're condensing it down all into this one experience in three days.

Speaker 3 14:52

All of that's coming out.

Speaker 2 14:54

Oh my gosh, 100%. I think the other big piece, the conditions piece that you said was mentioned and this has popped up just in different messages that I've received over the last couple of days as well when we talk about the conditions and it's not just the conditions that you place on yourself, it's the conditions that we think that other people place on us as well. And it comes down to being worthy, being accepted, being loved. I'll be loved or I will be acknowledged or recognized if I do X, y and Z or whatever that is.

Speaker 2 15:25

And so everything is built with conditions, everything.

Speaker 3 15:28

Yeah, and so this idea of allowing ourselves to just be everything. It was so interesting because that second day at lunch when I sat outside and that morning when I sat out for breakfast, so the morning that we had 50 minutes for breakfast and of course I'm sitting out there, I'm like what am I going to do for 50 minutes? And I'm just sitting there and I'm what the wind is blowing and I'm watching the trees move and a hummingbird and I haven't seen a hummingbird.

Speaker 3 15:54

Oh, one just came to my window today actually, so I've never never seen a hummingbird here and it came to my flower pot on my front porch and I'm like what does that mean? Period?

Episode Closing and Final Thoughts

Speaker 1 16:13

that has to mean something, and so be it. I don't need to be like that is so curious. That must mean something, period. Thank you for joining us today on the reignite resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas. To fuel the flames of passion, please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes and, of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.