Disarming Your Inner Narcissist + Resiliency with Emma Lyons (part 2)

What if that critical voice in your head isn't actually you? What if it's a parasite feeding off your energy and deliberately trying to destroy you? 

Emma, trauma expert and founder of the "Reclaim Your Shameless" program, reveals the shocking truth about our inner critics - they function exactly like internalized narcissists. In this paradigm-shifting conversation, she dismantles the common wisdom that tells us to "love our inner critic" or "sit with our shame," explaining why these approaches only strengthen the very thing keeping us small.

"Shame is the gasoline that keeps trauma burning," Emma shares, offering a revolutionary framework called "break" that helps us recognize, disconnect from, and evict our inner narcissist. Unlike normal emotions that can be processed, shame leads nowhere but deeper into itself - a bottomless pit that recycles our pain endlessly.

What makes this episode truly transformative is Emma's practical approach to liberation. She explains how our language and culture have programmed us to believe we need shame to be good people (why else would "shameless" be an insult?), while providing clear steps to cut off shame's power supply. Through powerful examples and actionable insights, she demonstrates how to identify trauma triggers, release emotional baggage, and reclaim authentic self-expression.

The freedom that comes from this work isn't just personal - it breaks generational cycles of trauma and models authentic living for others. 

As Emma powerfully states, "You don't owe your inner critic anything - not politeness, not attention, not energy." 

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. Resilience where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

Speaker 2 0:41

And I sense that you could do this. If you're in a relationship or with a narcissist, you could do this exact same framework well, yeah, absolutely you need to with the narcissist outside.

Speaker 3 0:52

And this is the thing that really kind of got me, because once I realized that the inner critic is actually the voice of the narcissist, it's ticks every single. But I was like why are they telling us to take this thing to therapy and to send it love, when that's absolutely the thing not to do with the narcissist out there, because they manipulate? It just keeps feeding it. Yes, yeah, they love it. They're like oh yes, we're getting more juicy energy out of this, yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 1:22

You feed the thing. So and then there are spiritual people who say, sit down, feel the shame. But, like I said, this is bad advice because shame it's not normal emotion, it's under anger. You find something else, you know. You find fear, you find sadness, you find something else, but shame it's just a bottomless bit of shame. I know because I spent 30, 40 years feeling the shame, feeling the shame every day and guess where? It got me suicidal, feeling like I wanted to not be here anymore, you know. So sitting with the shame is not the way to go. You've got to cut off that power supply.

Speaker 3 1:59

It is a parasite, you know. Imagine if you have like a parasite in your body that's feeding off you. You don't send it love or try to therapize it and feel, oh, poor thing, you know, flush that thing out. You flush that thing out, goodbye. So why are we trying to? You know, send love to this thing. That it's not you and it's not your friend, it's not your teacher and it's not your guide. It's not your intuition, it's not your teacher and it's not your guide. It's not your intuition, it's not your inner wisdom. It is trying to destroy you and once you realize that, you take your power back from that thing and it cannot control you. It relies. It's like a light bulb. It needs you to power it up. Without you, it's nothing. Yeah, wow.

Speaker 4 2:40

Well, something that when you're talking about the break and realizing you talk about like the kind of the energy or the emotion that comes around it, because it's usually serving someone else, right Like it's, it's something that's going to satisfy or fulfill someone else's emotional need. I feel like that's such an easy way to kind of tap into it when you see the shame bubbling up is who is this really serving Like? Is it serving right, like if you're're in that space, or is it serving someone else or pacifying someone else or appeasing someone else? However, you want to fill that in Exactly.

Why Shame Is Not Normal

Speaker 3 3:10

We've got to become this. I have a five week program that's called Reclaim your Shameless, because it's even encoded into our language that we need a bit of shame in order to be a good girl or a good boy. You know, shameless any other word in the English language that ends in L-E-S-S means you're free of that thing. But when we call someone shameless, it's a slur, it's an insult, and most of the time those people are either acting out of repressed shame getting drunk and taking all their clothes off, and so it's repressed, disconnected shame are. Also, we call people shameless as well when they are acting completely, they're completely being themselves, because that triggers us. You know, oh my God, but she's just being herself, she's just being totally authentic and we're triggered by that.

Speaker 3 3:53

So most of the time when we call people shameless, it's not because they're free of shame. It's because it triggers something in us and we want to shame them so that we can feel better. You know, it's interesting to see how it's programmed in our very language. We're programmed to need shame. Oh, you have no shame, natalie. You know this is an insult. It's an insult to have no shame. So our whole, we're linguistically programmed to feel that we need shame in order to be a good person, and it's a complete lie. It's a complete lie, it is a cultural implant and it does nobody any good.

Speaker 4 4:28

So as we individually work through break or any type of system. I think, even if you can take some of the break, some of the framework that you've put together, and start to apply that, how can we continue to see this ripple? Because we've got a lot of unpacking that we need to do. We've started to talk about it. It's generational right, it's not just during our time frame and I can see the things how it popped up in my mom's life and her mom's life and what's fed it. But how can we continue to work through it, because sitting on a sofa and talking to a therapist about it is not going to correct it? How do we truly start to see that progression? What do you envision there?

Speaker 3 5:04

well recognizing it and therapy is good for recognizing it. So this is really good to see the patterns, to see how they're playing out, it's really important. So that's important work as well. But then you've got to go back and kind of release those trauma triggers and I work with people energetically to do that so you can find lots of different ways to kind of energetically work with your triggers so that you feel no shame. But, like, a huge part of it is recognizing and this is the key.

Speaker 3 5:32

Lots of people have been doing lots of podcasts and many people have told me that just hearing this has been really empowering for them. Because it's not the common wisdom out there is that this is your guidance. You know, this is you. And when you recognize that it's not, that it's not the common wisdom out there is that this is your guidance. You know this is you. And when you recognize that it's not, that it's just a narcissist that you've internalized, it kind of gives you permission to not take on board what the BS that it's pushing on you, you know, and you get to say no. You get to say no, this is not mine, this belongs to my mother, this belongs to someone else, I'm not taking it on. It's like if I come to you, pam, and say you have disgusting purple hair, I hate your purple hair, it's so horrible, you're going to think I'm crazy. You're not going to be shamed like that. In order for you to experience shame, you need that narcissist in your ear saying, yeah, my hair looks really bad today. You need to agree in order to feel shame, or that narcissist needs to resonate. It's like a lock and a key, you know so somebody coming along and trying to shame you.

Speaker 3 6:29

I was talking to someone the other day and when she was young, she was kind of on the fatter side, pumpy child, and some guy went up to, went up to her and her friend and said you shouldn't be eating the ice cream, it'll make you fat. And these girls, they laughed in his face. Can you imagine that? And that could have been so shaming. And this is what we can do when we reclaim our shameless ladies, we reclaim our shameless, we don't we? Someone brings us the shame gift and you say not mine, take it back, that's yours. That's yours, exactly that's yours. We have to accept the gift, we have to agree and let it in. No, you take it. You want to insult me. Take it back, right back at you. I am accepting your BS. We just totally disarm it. Then we break the cycle.

Speaker 3 7:15

And it's so important that we do this for the next generation as well, coming up. Because if you're carrying all the unprocessed trauma that you're carrying doesn't just disappear, guys, it goes into your kids, it has nowhere else to go. So you're carrying all the unprocessed trauma that you're carrying. It doesn't just disappear, guys, it goes into your kids. It has nowhere else to go. So you're doing this not just for you, so that you can be happier and feel better in your skin. You're doing this for the next generations coming up. That's why this work is so, so important, not just for you personally, but for everyone that you spend time with, particularly your kids.

Reclaiming Your Shameless Self

Speaker 3 7:45

Because, also, you get to model this shamelessness. When you disarm this shame, this shame body, this narcissist, this inner narcissist, as I call it, you model that for other people and they're like, wow, look at that, she's being so free of shame, she's just being herself, it's so cool. Nobody models that Like. How many people do you see that are really authentically free of shame? It's very, very rare. People are always playing some kind of game, hiding feeling like they have to shrink, feeling like they have to put up a front. Authenticity is true. Authenticity is really rare and you know people have shame attacks all the time, which just makes them shrink into something else. So when you disarm this parasite, you fully take back your power, you fully own it again and you ain't taking on nobody's shame. I love that.

Speaker 2 8:34

You said release trauma triggers. How do you do that? Or how do you recognize the trauma? Yeah, that you may have that generational.

Speaker 3 8:41

Well, it's either from your own childhood or it's intergenerational.

Speaker 3 8:45

So when you get triggered, you know so. When you feel anger or emotion, like when someone says something to you, and you feel anger, resentment coming up, that's a sign that it's a trigger, that you have some kind of wound under you and you can kind of look and see where it comes from, like what would I need to believe is true in order to feel this way, or something that you can work through with a therapist or an energy worker to find out why you're taking it so personally. And then you can. You know, if you do enough of this releasing work, those triggers, the same thing happens and you're like it's like water off a duck's back. It doesn't affect you anymore, you don't get angry about it anymore. People could be coming to you saying the same thing and you're just like, okay, you know, you're not taking those gifts anymore, you're sending them back to this vendor, you're not taking them inside you. And this is the power of working through those triggers we can reclaim more and more of our authentic self as we do so.

Speaker 4 9:41

And I'm sure some of those triggers would pop up with that internal dialogue or the internal critic or the internal narcissist, however you want to label it right. It's that chatter that pops up when you're by yourself or you're thinking about something that you've just experienced. That is probably a great like item for you to recognize some of that trauma as well, or a way for you to recognize that trauma.

Speaker 3 10:02

Absolutely and you know, know you can work through yourself or you can work through with some, with a therapist or someone who knows how to kind of dig in these things and find out where it comes comes from. A lot of the time it comes from childhood things that have happened to us in childhood and maybe you got shamed as a child, maybe you were told to be quiet and sit in the corner and then when someone does it to you as an adult, it triggers you. You know, you freeze or you be quiet and sit in the corner and then when someone does it to you as an adult, it triggers you, you freeze or you feel something, and maybe your reaction is more. It's a slight overreaction or big overreaction. That's a sign that there's a trigger there that you can look at and dissolve and gain. You can use these triggers as a resource. Triggers are a pain in the ass, don't get me wrong. It's not nice to be triggered. We a resource. Triggers are pain in the ass, don't get me wrong. It's not nice to be triggered and we've all been triggered. You know well, I'm sure everyone. You're human. If you've been triggered, I've been triggered enough, you know. But you can use that, those triggers as a resource to see right, what's going on here.

Speaker 3 10:55

Why am I taking this so personally? What am I making this mean? And when was the first time that I felt that way? And that's a way that you can kind of look into yourself, maybe as a child. That's some kind of echo, and that's very often what it is. It's some kind of echo from something that you felt as a child that you can bring up and resolve and rewire yourself to feel differently the next time it happens or the next time that situation. It's so beautiful. When that happens, you feel like you're really expanding. You feel like you can see real progression and growth because you are actually responding differently to the same circumstances, circumstances where you would have been furious before. You're now able to breeze through it. And that is spiritual growth in its highest form, I feel like it's taking back control.

Speaker 3 11:41

Because I know exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 11:42

It's like I lose control and it's like oh.

Recognizing and Releasing Trauma Triggers

Speaker 3 11:46

Exactly, perfectly said. When we get triggered, we lose control of ourselves and these old programs come in and they're like oh my God, you're a bad person or whatever it says. Now, whatever that narcissist or the voice inside says, we start playing that game and we're replaying something from the past. We're not in the present. We start playing that game and we're replaying something from the past. We're not in the present. And when we work through that, we get to be present. We stay present through it and nothing can pull us off center anymore.

Speaker 4 12:14

Being present is such a big piece. As you talk about that, emma, and when you look at the release portion that you talk about, I think it's important for us to realize that it's not just simply forgetting or dismissing or shoving it under the rug, which my generation did really well. Just put that in the corner until we get back to it. Talk to us a little bit about the release. Like what is that setting the expectation for our listeners when they are releasing this trauma? What does that truly mean? Because you touched on it with the presence piece, but it goes deeper than that well it's like the thing is.

Speaker 3 12:47

A lot of it is. We resist the emotion. So when you get triggered to anger, right, you can ask yourself, and you can. People can do this. You know you can do a certain amount yourself if you're not too triggered. If you're super triggered, it's really helpful to work with someone else to help you. But feel what the emotion is underneath it, because there's something that you'll be resisting or trying to not feel, you know. So just feel that and don't try to resist it. Don't try to shout at anyone, just wow, this anger and what's underneath the anger maybe there's some sadness and just allow yourself to feel it.

Speaker 3 13:20

And you know, when I work with people and there are many ways to do this, but people feel lighter, people start getting ideas. You know, I mean I was working with an artist several years ago and after we cleared a lot of stuff that he was carrying so a lot of shame stuff actually he we both actually got this idea that he needed to make a phone call to a woman and he was like, yeah, I know who that is. And he agreed to do it after the session, straight after the session, and helped him release some of the fears that he had around taking that action. And when he phoned that woman, he got an art exhibition set up. So who knows what could have come, what opportunities could have come, from that, and he also sold a piece of art from that one phone call. So this, this is when we release this shit. Basically it's shit. It's like BS that we're carrying, you know weight that's weighing us down, emotional baggage. When we release it, we feel lighter. We start getting the messages that have been trying to get through. But this fear and this anger and these triggers have been in the way. So they start getting through. Wow, I need to phone this person, I need to take that action, I need to phone this person. We feel like we can do it. And this is really.

Speaker 3 15:27

People get inspired to take action and they do it from an energy of joy. So people usually feel lighter when I work with them. They start getting ideas about what to do. Sometimes people see things more clearly physically. They feel like their eyes are more open or the colors are more vivid, because we've been blinded by all this BS. There are this emotional baggage that they've been carrying around all their lives and all that time they thought it was them, but it's not you. It's like we're taking on all these rocks and all this baggage. We're carrying it for other people, particularly if you're the sensitive type. That's what we do. I'm an empath, so that's how I ended up so messed up because I was taking on other people's stuff and I didn't know the difference between my stuff and other people's stuff, you know. So I ended up in real loops, self-defeating loops.

Speaker 2 16:16

So this is the power of releasing, and it's so beautiful, just allowing yourself to feel those feelings, and I love that and I've heard that so many times. The we get so in our head. We talk ourselves through any situation instead of allowing ourselves to sit in like you said. Sit in whatever that feeling is. That's behind that trigger, because that's the only way process through it. Otherwise, all we're doing is talking ourselves through it, but we're just hiding, we're just shoving it back and it's never going to be good.

Speaker 3 16:44

Exactly exactly so. It's about feeling it, healing it. But you don't want to feel shame. That's the one caveat. Don't feel shame, because there's nothing under shame. Shame is just more shame. Disconnect the shame, but, yes, the fear, the anger, the frustration. There's something else underneath that that needs to be looked at. There's maybe, like a little child who's feeling sad.

Speaker 4 17:07

That we can use that trigger to heal and don't shame yourself for feeling the feelings like that's a piece that you could get to as well, right like why would you get so? Upset about this. Just let it go and then you you're gonna talk yourself out of being with those feelings in that moment.

Speaker 3 17:22

Yeah, exactly, and that's why shame is a trap, because it traps us from every single angle. You shouldn't be like this, you shouldn't be like that. You know it's full of shoulds and invalidation. You want to validate the feeling, so it's okay to be angry. You know that was a bad thing that happened to you and that would have affected anyone.

Speaker 3 17:40

But what people tend to do, and also people in spiritual communities they tend to kind of gaslight you and say, oh, that didn't happen at all. You know, rather than validating your pain, you've got to validate yourself, validate your pain. That was painful, that was hard, what your dad said to you, that was painful, you know, and that's okay. You need to accept that and validate that inner child's pain before you can start releasing the wound that's underneath it. You can't skip to that and that's what a lot of you know spiritual bypassing.

Speaker 3 18:10

They're just like, oh, just forgive, just forgive your mother, just forgive your abuser. No, you get to feel and process through it and when you've been, you know, abused invisibly, like me, are more overtly, like with narcissistic abuse. There is a whole process, there is a grief process for the life that you never lived because you didn't, weren't supported as a child the way that you could have been, to be the person that you could have been. There's also rage, you know. There's also rage that comes up because there's a part of you that's really angry for not being allowed to be you, for being shamed, to be someone else for someone else's comfort.

Breaking the Cycle of Shame

Speaker 4 18:47

Wow that's huge. Emma, you spoke a little bit about the training that you do if individuals are interested in working with you. Talk to us a little bit about how someone can work with you and what different spaces you're in right now.

Speaker 3 19:00

Well, I have a five week program which is called reclaim your shameless or not. Today, bitch, you know, and it's all about. It's a five week container, working with other people, which is really powerful, working with other women. So it's a small container at the moment where we really work through these shame triggers and also learn you know, practice this not taking the break process. You know, really, when shame attacks and it does, it's like a shame attack.

Speaker 3 19:26

I don't know if you've ever had a shame attack. I've had several. You know you learn how to disarm that before it even starts. So, and you practice it because it's a practice and through the group, we really raise each other up and I work with the group and work with individuals in the group.

Speaker 3 19:43

So it's a small, really powerful container where we really support and rise together to reclaim our shameless, to live shamelessly, not in the sense of behaving badly, but in the sense of just living free of shame, because that is the way we're supposed to live shamelessly, not in the sense of behaving badly, but in the sense of just living free of shame, because that is the way we're supposed to live. We're not supposed to be shaming ourselves and we're not supposed to be taking in the shame from other people. This is the lie that we've been fed and that it's time to let it go now. We don't need shame to be a good person. We do not need shame, we need empathy, we need love. So with the groups that I work with, we practice those skills.

Speaker 2 20:19

And is this in person? Is it virtual, or how is that this?

Speaker 3 20:23

is virtual at the moment. I am planning on running retreats in the future, but because I feel like this is such a such an important thing and also being with people in person is really beautiful for people, particularly if they felt scapegoated or invisible growing up, because many people who have really internalized shame badly that's what they were invisible as a child. Their needs weren't important to even be considered by their family of origin. And you know, our families can be abusive. That's the fact. Families can.

Speaker 3 20:55

Parents are living in trauma, maybe have a lot of trauma. That doesn't excuse them from their part. But we can disconnect and that's the beautiful thing that we can do here and now. We can recognize that what happened was not your fault and that it did happen and we don't have to live from that place anymore. We can start a new chapter and we can be have to live from that place anymore. We can start a new chapter and we can be the best version of ourselves, starting right now, where we are living shamelessly, empowered, joyfully, authentically and not taking on other people's BS anymore.

Speaker 4 21:28

I love that I think that's a great reminder because this is work that you can do whatever season or phase that you're in in life, right Like once you have that realization and you're wanting to do that work, recognizing what has happened, taking ownership for where you are, the gasoline that keeps that trauma burning. It's shame, but think of animals.

Speaker 3 21:58

They experience traumatic situations, but they don't have shame. They don't have shame, you know, if you've seen a duck or something that gets into a fight, they shake it off. They literally shake off that trauma. They're not thinking five years later, oh my God, that fight with that other duck over there. You know this is insane. Thinking five years later, oh my God, that fight with that other duck over there. You know this is insane, but as humans we do this. Shame is the gasoline that keeps that trauma burning. So when we disarm shame, we stop that trauma from recycling and reliving and rebirthing itself in us and in our children. Powerful.

Speaker 4 22:32

It is Absolutely, emmama. Do you have any words of advice or additional wisdom that you want to share with our listeners that we haven't touched on so far today?

Tools for Living Shamelessly

Speaker 3 22:41

no, I would just love to reiterate that you have one takeaway from this. This voice inside your head it's not you, it's not trying to protect you, it's not your friend, it's actually trying to destroy you. Okay, so you don't owe it shit. You don't owe it shit, you. Okay so you don't owe it shit. You don't owe it shit. You owe it nothing. You don't owe it politeness. You don't owe it anything and you can say no to it. You can tell it to F off. You take back your power. It's nothing without you. It's a parasite, it's a shell, it's a ghost, it's a light bulb that gets it's all its energy and supply from you, and you can cut that off now with one decision love this.

Speaker 4 23:17

That's awesome. Thank you, emma. I feel like if there is a spot for us to land that, that's one key thing that everyone can remember and walk away with. Stick that in your toolkit.

Speaker 3 23:26

I have a free gift for people. So if people are like raising their hands, this is five signs that it's time to break up with your inner narcissist. So if you're like, oh, I have this thing, this voice, inside my head, it's really bad, it shames me. Okay, this is five signs that it's time to break up with this thing, and it also has steps about how to make that happen. So you can pick that up at tinyurlcom forward slash not today. Narc. N-ar-c. Not today, narc. You can pick it up there and also connect me. Send me a message. I would love to hear how you found this. If this inspired, you, uplifted me, send me a message on all the social medias. I'm traumamatrix, so you can find me there.

Speaker 4 24:09

Love that thank you for offering that to the listeners. I appreciate it my pleasure that internal narcissist, oh, that gaslights us so much, like as you it. I just think about all of the internal dialogue that I have. That's just like it's keeping me safe. It's keeping me, you know, whatever fill in the blank of gaslights.

Speaker 3 24:24

Yeah, yeah. And we're told to sit down and take this thing to therapy. We don't have to do that anymore. No, it cannot be therapized with, you just need to evict it. You evict the narcissist. You don't negotiate with it, you get it out.

Speaker 4 24:39

Evict the narcissist I love that kicking them out and taking, yes, take back your power, take back control. Yes, love it I know I, I feel like the course that you have Not today, no, not today, we're not doing it.

Speaker 3 24:56

Not today, bitch.

Speaker 4 24:57

Exactly, emma. This has been so lovely, thank you. Thank you for joining us, and we will make sure that we drop the link in the show notes as well, so people can click through on the show notes and get that free resource. Thank you so much for sharing that. This has been fabulous, yeah, thank you so much for sharing that.

Speaker 3 25:16

This has been fabulous.

Speaker 4 25:17

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, ladies. I really appreciate it. Absolutely, absolutely, and we'll make sure that we put your contact information in the show notes as well, so that folks can connect with you on social media and for our listeners. You all know. If you're looking to learn more about what's happening in the world of Reignite Resilience, head on over to reigniteresiliencecom.

Speaker 1 25:32

Until next time we'll see you all soon. Bye everyone. Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas. To fuel the flames of passion, please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes and, of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.