Divorce Melodrama, Mediation + Resiliency with Joe Dillon (part 2)

Fire rarely reignites in a noisy room. We bring in a veteran divorce mediator to show how quiet skills—neutrality, boundaries, and deep listening—turn high-conflict standoffs into agreements people can live with. From personal triggers to client blowups, he walks us through the real work behind “staying neutral” and why it’s not a stance but a job: set expectations, shut down disrespect, and come prepared with options that honor both the numbers and the nerves.

You’ll hear why drama often spikes when there’s less to divide, how confidentiality protects everyone, and what it takes to read the iceberg beneath each demand. Instead of positional bargaining—my way versus yours—he uses interest-based negotiation to find the option no one named but both can accept. Think Thai food when the room is stuck on burger versus pizza. Along the way, small affirmations and clear math lessons become turning points. When people feel seen and understand the tradeoffs, the thunderstorm passes and progress starts.

We also talk about the circle around the couple. Friends and family can help most by asking “How can I help?” and then sitting with the answer, even if it’s silence. Presence beats advice. The mediator shares why he sometimes ends a case to protect the process, how he prepares between sessions to save clients time and money, and why service above self starts with local acts of care. If you’re navigating divorce, leading a team through conflict, or just trying to argue less and understand more, these tools will steady your next hard conversation.

Want more resources and a steady guide? Visit equitablemediation.com for checklists, videos, and a free call where available. If this conversation helped, follow Reignite Resilience, share this episode with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick review so others can find it too.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

Those are great strategies. And I love the training that you've received on it because as you talk about like not getting in the box, I immediately got in the box with fictitious Bob when he raised his voice. And I was like, everyone stop yelling. Why are we yelling? But then I thought, that's me in the box. Like I just got in the box in that moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

God, how did I get in this box? How do I get out of this box? Is more important, right? That was the other question.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

How do I get out of this? Yeah. Exactly.

Staying Neutral Amid Personal History

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Because the lid closed and you know, oh boy. It's hard. And it's easy to get sucked into the drama, especially like we talked about before, where we all have our own triggers, our own biases. And you know, so I'm an only child. I was raised by my mom and my nonna, you know, so uh, you know, very female-centric family. And one of my things that I always have to check is in my world, my mom, you know, like I said, she spent money on lawyers. And at the time of their divorce, she was only working part-time. And she was working working inside the home raising me. And then she had an inkling that something was going on. So she got a part-time job. But she was making probably like one-tenth of what my dad was making. And so what wound up happening was when it came time to go through the lawyer route, she eventually ran out of money. She just didn't have the money to keep fighting and fighting and fighting. One day I remember the alimony checks literally just stopped. My dad just decided that he was going to stop paying alimony. Now, thankfully, the child support kept coming, but the alimony stopped. And I guess eventually the child support stopped. I don't remember that per se. But I was always home from school first, got the mail, put the checks on the counter, could see my dad's return address. Of course, I knew what this was. And usually there were two envelopes from him, then there was only one. And I think about those kinds of things about getting in the box. And I have to say to myself, when I've got a spouse, and it could be a man or a woman, because women pay alimony too. It's gender neutral, whoever the higher earner is, and they don't want to pay that to the lower-earning spouse, even though the lower earning spouse has done everything you've asked of them, gave up their career, raised the kids, X, Y, and Z, now works in an industry that's that's not really easy to get a job in. That's a trigger I really have to check because that happened in my world. And you really need to work hard to be neutral. Being neutral is a job unto itself. It's not something you just learn or say or you train in. You really have to go, okay, that happened, right? All right, let's take five, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Like recognizing it because, like you said, it's it's whichever spouse is going to start to bring that back up from your personal experience. And you have the emotion, right? Like the with all of your senses, you were able to see it, hear it, taste it, touch it. You you touch the envelopes when they came in every month. And then if you're mediating two spouses that, you know, you can clearly see the description that aligns with what you experienced and witnessed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

How do you put that in check? It's like, I see this coming. I still need to be neutral here.

Boundaries And When Mediation Stops

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Right. And you ask a lot of questions. And I I always subscribe. So there's, you know, as I talked before about being able to put my head on the pillow at night. One of the ways I do that is by doing my job and doing it very well. I always show up, I give 100%. I'm not phoning this in. I am laser focused on you and you alone. And if you work with me, I will give you twice as much as you give me. I feel that's my role. And it's difficult to do that, but that's why you're working with me. On the flip side, I also have to protect myself, be good to myself, um, you know, honor myself and my boundaries. And one of the things that's interesting about mediation is it's a voluntary process, meaning it's voluntary for everybody. And I let people know that right up front. I say, listen, I have high expectations of you. I understand there's going to be times where we swear, we yell or we freak out. That's fine. But if it keeps happening and it's disrespectful and it's intentional, I am going to shut this thing down. And I'm going to walk away because I'm going to protect myself. And then I'm going to protect you as well because that tells me you're not mediation friendly. You're going to need to litigate. I'm sorry for that. But that's a choice that you, client couple, make. You have all the power in the world to, my rules aren't hard. They're be present, be focused, don't call each other names. You know, really stuff that you learned as a five-year-old, right? This is real basic what I learned in kindergarten stuff. And if you can't follow that, then I'm going to take my ball and go home. And I think people are also surprised thinking, well, you have to listen to us. I don't actually. I'm happy to refund your money and go walk the dog and get the wine and have the dinner and you know, whatever it is. But and most often, you know, I've in life I've only fired two clients in 17 years. But those two were really rough. They were very, very, very aggressive. And that's where you really have to say, am I doing more harm than good? And it really just felt like I was at that point. And even though they probably can't see it now, I'm hoping that years from now they'll realize what their behavior was like, how it was unacceptable, that they got some help for whatever was really ailing them, and that they are able to rebuild and move on. And but I just know to protect myself and give that 200% to the other 98% of people or 99.9% that I don't let go, I need to be my best self. And that's how I do it. And that's really just part of the contract we have with people, just the human contract that says, I will treat you the way you treat me, but my expectations of you are very high. So you best be treating me very well as also, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:24

That's it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, these are such key pieces, Joe. Like you just in the process of going through mediation and even after they've completed their time and working with you, making sure that the spouses are getting some type of counseling or therapy to follow up on, you know, just to process what they've gone through, being present and respectful when they're working with you. So really a lot of key pieces for individuals to to take away to apply to their, just to apply to themselves wherever they are, if they're facing divorce or on the cusp of facing divorce or what have you. I think these are like foundational pieces that um are helpful. The other big one that you talked on, uh talked about um is who you're surrounding yourself with, which is key. Like who are the little voices that are like that, you deserve more than that. Keep fighting. I've got you, girl. Sorry, sorry.

unknown 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Right? That's that's it.

Confidentiality And Killing The Gossip

SPEAKER_02 7:17

That's the hardest part because when you're mediating, you're not only mediating with the client couple, but everybody else that they know. Yes. Their kids, their friends, their family, their neighbor. And and as you would imagine, the part of being a mediator and part of working in in such a profession that I do is that without confidentiality, I'm I'm toast, right? I keep everything very close to the best. And when you know, when people find out what it is I do, they immediately want some salacious story, like, ooh, ooh, what's been the worst? Dish, you must have some good gossip, right? Yes, and it's like I do, but I can't tell you. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

And and that's I was gonna say, feel free to share it here if you do. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

So, but uh for as a general rule, right? That's what you have to realize is that that's only feeding the machine. And then when I refuse to give the whatever, the salacious story, somebody comes back with one that tells me something about oh, they're friends, college roommates, bop, bop, bop, bah, bah, got X, Y, or Z. And you listen to them and you think to yourself, like, let me get this straight. So they worked part-time at the grocery store and they paid$16,000 a month in alimony. How did that happen? Yeah, okay, sure. Right? Because people just want to create this drama around divorce. And at the end of the day, it's really not as dramatic as people think it is, unless they make it, right? And we have had, you know, we've had some interesting clients, we've had some high-profile clients, and they're actually the best to work with because they're public figures, they don't want the drama, they want the confidence.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

They want the confidentiality, why are we to go away?

Drama vs Assets And Real Stakes

Reading The Iceberg And Landmines

The Position Behind The Position

SPEAKER_02 9:04

And and we are just those, we are the people to do that, and and they're a joy to work with, and and you just it's the folks who think divorce should be drama, and typically it's the folks who what's really ironic is in my experience, the amount of drama is indirectly proportional to the amount of assets you have. The more you have, the less drama we've got. The less you have, the more drama we've got. And I think it's because the stakes are higher that there's only one bank account or one car, or you know, and so it really ratchets up. You want people to recognize, however, that it doesn't matter if one of you gets the car at the end of the day, you're really in a lot of financial trouble right now. That that car is not going to pay your bills, that's not gonna pay your rent, or put groceries on your table. And that's where we try to, again, when you're dealing with people, you're constantly evaluating, right? You're looking at what's the dynamic between these folks. And a lot of it's the old iceberg, right? You only see what's above the surface. And there's decades of drama and other things below the surface that I don't really want to get into because I'm not a therapist. That's not my role, but I need to be aware of where the landmines are so I don't step on them. And that's really a key as well. You're feeling people out, you're moving slowly, you're trying to understand what's the hang up here. And invariably, when it comes to listening to folks, and we all, this is a just for your listeners and anybody, we have a saying when we think about negotiation. So, as you you you realize, I I love the art of negotiation. That's really what I do. I'm a professional negotiator. And I apply these same things, whether I'm at the restaurant and the bartender's not paying attention to me, or I'm buying a car, or whatever it is, whatever when I'm trying to get something done or get something for myself. And I'm always looking at what I say is what is the position behind the position? Why is this person saying this to me? Why are they coming at me this way? What is this energy coming at me, right? What's really behind them? And I can tell you with 100% certainty what it is they're yelling or saying to you has absolutely nothing to do with the real issue. It's my dog died, you know, meanwhile, like meanwhile, you're yelling about alimony, but it's really I'm sad about my dog. And that makes perfect sense, right? I love dogs. I have a dog. My dog died, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, you know. So let's break through that. And that's also part of in mediation, you have the ability to have those redirect those conversations. Whereas in an attorney-driven, you know, it's just butting heads, butting heads, butting heads. We're not really caring about what's behind all of this. We're just trying to grind this thing down and grind it out and get it done. And I'm really just trying to figure out what's triggering you, what's making you say this, what can we help you release so we can move past this and we can have the crash, if you will, where all the emotions come out, and then we can go, okay, now I understand what's going on. And when we have those moments in mediation, they're the best moments because the people cry, everybody's upset, I'm upset, they're upset, and we're all just like, hey, you know what? I'm glad we had this conversation. And people are like, they kind of look at each other and you know, the thunderstorm has passed, and now we can get on with really talking to each other as people and and getting this thing done and moving forward. And that's that's another part of it, right? Again, the whole wearing many hats thing. It's like part cheerleader, part therapist, part negotiator, part financial advisor. You really just it's quite a very job to help people cross that finish line. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

I love that. It's eye-opening because I I mean, just quite candidly, my and I have a a good friend that is a mediator as well. And I just thought she was that neutral third party that sat in the room while they worked it out. Like I didn't realize that you have to be able to wear many hats and swap those hats out when needed.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah, you're trying to keep everybody at the table. That's your job, right? You don't want people to walk away, even though you know that it has nothing to do with you, right? It's them. They can choose to blow all the money or all the stress or all the time. But you just really like sometimes I'm more invested in it than they are, where I'm like, come on, we can do this.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Sometimes that's me, you know, it's like, oh my gosh.

Emotional Breakthroughs That Unlock Progress

Wearing Many Hats To Keep Momentum

SPEAKER_02 13:22

And you do, you're just in a way, going back to the parental thing, you know, these folks, like you know, another thing that happens, we've all had these relationships, even whether it's a romantic one or a friendship, where you're in this relationship and suddenly you, it's not like you wake up one day and realize this because it's been nagging at you over time. But you realize you're in this one-way relationship where you're not getting positive feedback, you're not getting encouragement, you're not getting support. And you're thinking, like, what the heck am I doing here? And so when somebody like me comes along and says, hey, you know what? Your budgets look great. I really appreciate you taking the time to put in, obviously, as much time as you did preparing these. That's probably the first nice thing this person has heard in 10 years, right? People, I'm talking about a spreadsheet, right? Which isn't really a, you know, like a heartfelt kind of thing, but but I am saying, like, hey, you did a great job, and thanks for doing that. I appreciate it. And then folks who are like, well, yeah, I did a good job. Hey, all right, you know, I'm not a terrible person. And that's also part of what we're trying to do is to keep them at that table by positive reinforcement and encouragement. And because it's almost like probably like, you know, your parents when you were little and they try to give you medicine, and you're like, I don't want that. And they're like, This is good for you. And because it was good for you, even though it tasted terrible, you you were like, okay, and you've they gave you the medicine, and that's kind of what I'm doing. It's like, I know this is hard. I know you're not gonna like this, but trust me, this is better for you. It's good for you. You don't, please stay, you know. Yeah, so that's also part of it too. Yeah, it's um there's uh when people say, What do you do? I'm like, well, I mean, I help people divorce about lawyers, but what do I really do? I am a cheerleader negotiator to this email. So that's what I really do all day.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Yeah. And I imagine part of that is by doing what you're doing is that building of trust because neither of them trust you at this moment because they, oh, you're gonna side with this person or you're gonna side with that person, and how can I trust you? And so part of that relationship that you're building with, hey, good job on that spreadsheet. I know that that took a lot, or good job on that budget, is starting to build that relationship with them to help kind of disarm them a little bit.

Building Trust With Clarity And Care

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Of course, that's key. You know, we all have, and I'm asking you to share intimate details of your life, your kids, your finances. I know exactly what you make, what you spend, where you go. Like, I have your social security numbers. Like, you know, I I could ruin your life if I wanted to, right? You know, not that I'm going to, but that's it. It's like you really, I am asking the law. And I realize that. And by saying that up front, I'm I'm letting them know I want you to know that I do realize I'm asking the law. And that does, I hope, put them at ease. And by sharing some of myself and part of you know, the wonderful opportunity to speak with you ladies, is that they get to know me as a person. I want people to feel like they know, like trust, and they they've heard me and they've seen me, and they they're like, okay, you know, this guy, uh, yeah, he seems okay, right? And and that's all part of it too, because you're really asking, this is probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest, decision, other than maybe to get married or to have kids, is to get a divorce. And that's a huge step. It's a huge process and an undertaking. And it's not hyperbole to say it will literally impact you for the rest of your natural-born life. So you need to make sure you've got a guide who can get you through this process the best way possible, even though I'm not saying it's gonna be great or fun or terrific. Um, just finished up with a client before speaking with you. And the husband is very funny, he's very artistic, and he's not a numbers guy at all. And we're going through the spreadsheets and all this stuff. He's like, I gotta say, I want you to know, no disrespect. I hate math. He's like, but I really appreciated you explaining all the numbers to me, because at least now I know how it works. He's like, it was still terrible. I want you to know it was one of the worst things I ever had to do, but I appreciated the work you did. I was like, you know what? That's the best I can hope for from somebody like that. It's a win, yes. I'll take the win. Exactly. Thank you for saying that. I think that was a compliment in a backhanded way.

SPEAKER_04 17:37

Yes, absolutely. It's a small wins. I think, Joe, that's absolutely a win from a creative time for them to say, I appreciate this budgeting process.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

I'll take it, gotta take it, absolutely, right? Thank you. You're not a terrible human.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Yes, and I mean, ultimately, the mediation, you're trying to create a win-win. Yes, they're both happening to give. They go to litigation. There's always going to be a loser in that.

Win-Win Thinking And Expanding The Pie

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Of course. Yeah, and win-win means sometimes expanding the pie, as we say. You're always looking for other things that people can give because when you do what's known as positional bargaining, right? I want, no, I want a cheeseburger. Well, I want a pizza. I want a cheeseburger, right? Somebody has to lose to win. And instead, it's like, well, we're both hungry, right? That's the interest. We're both hungry. Let's get something to eat. Well, I don't want a cheeseburger because I'm vegetarian. I don't want pizza because I'm allergic to tomatoes. Okay, great. Let's go for Thai food. You know, we found something that we both can, we can both like and we win and it satisfies, and it wasn't even an option that was on the table. That's my job is to come up with the Thai food, you know, idea. That that's how it works in my world is to try to find what is it we're really trying to do here? What are we trying to accomplish, and find an option that's going to work for everybody? And that that's just experience. That's just me doing this for so long, where you're looking at people and you're analyzing them and thinking what would work, what might not work, what options could be good, what should I not bother with? And that really is part of the art of the negotiation and being an active participant. And I think, Natalie, I think you were saying this, right, with your friend being a mediator. We're not just potted plants that look nice in the corner of the room, right? Just waiting for the sunshine. We're in there with you. We're we're in the fight. And we want to make sure that you're getting the outcome that you you need and want and deserve. And that that takes a lot of activity and preparation and time spent on your case, even when I'm not sitting across from you, thinking about you, examining everything that you've submitted, working through all the options in my head before I step into session. So I'm not just going, I don't know, let me give me a few minutes, you guys, and let me think about something. You know, I've got to come in prepared because these folks want to minimize their time. I don't take that personally, right? There, I've got that, I get that a lot. Joe, you're a nice guy, but we would prefer not to see you again after our session tonight.

SPEAKER_05 20:02

The clock is still running.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, not taking it personally. Don't sweat it, you know. Send me a card if you feel like it one Christmas. That'd be lovely, you know, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:11

So Joe, I'd love for you to give us some advice or give our listeners that are not going through a divorce, but they may be the folks on the sideline, right? Those cheerleaders that are surrounding the divorcee or the spouse that's going through a divorce. What advice do you have for those folks? How can they be most helpful to a spouse that's going through a divorce, either with a mediator or if they're going the litigious way and going through the courts?

How Friends Can Actually Help

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah, the easiest thing is listen, actively, really listen. We all hate silence. We all want to give our opinion, we all want to tell people what we think they should do. I truly believe people eventually get to the answer. They do. They've got it somewhere in there, somewhere racking in their brain or their heart or whatever. They know what the right thing to do is. They know what it is they want and they need. Your job as a friend, as a family member is to say, I'm here for you when you want to talk. You want to listen, you want to cry, you want to scream, you want to yell, you want to laugh. No problem. I'm not going to tell you what you should do. I'm going to acknowledge and validate. I'm going to listen and say, hey, I don't know what it's like to be you. This must be really hard on you. What is it I can do to help? And in negotiation, we have the magic phrase, people like to help. And that goes two ways. So as a negotiator, whenever I'm asking for something from someone, I'm revealing a secret. So if anyone out there who knows me is listening, they're going to hear me say this when I'm coming up on them and they're going to go, ah, I know what you're doing to me. But if I want to get something from you, the best way I can do that is I could say, like, let's say I need help moving the couch. Let's say I don't want to hire movers because I'm cheap, right? Let's make it real obvious. And I call up Natalie and go, oh, Natalie, I got this couch. It is blocking my living room. Man, I really need some help moving it. Well, Natalie's a person, and Natalie's a nice person, and Natalie is my friend. And of course, Natalie wants to help me. So Natalie's gonna say to herself, Well, I'm not a big dude, but Joe, you want me to come over and try and help you move that couch? Oh, Natalie, really? You you would do that? Oh, wow, I would really love that. That's how, as a negotiator, you you open the conversation to get what you want. The opposite is true. When you're on the other side and you're the listener, how can I help you? How can I be your friend? How can I be the best friend you need right now? How can I be of assistance? Right? That's it. Let the person tell you what they need. That's key because sometimes people just want to scream. Sometimes they want to go to drinks. Sometimes they don't want to talk. Right. And maybe you are the one who wants to feel. How's it going? How's your court? When do you go to court next? What did you what did he say? Maybe they're sick of that, right? So always remember the help mantra, whether you're asking or you're offering, whatever it is, help is such a magic word, and it's not one that I really feel like we don't do enough helping. We need to help people more. Your friends, your neighbors, your family. Are you okay? Real simple, like basic humanity questions that we seem to have lost a little bit of our way in this world. And so that to me is the best advice I could give someone. Ask them what they need. How can I help you? How can I be your best friend? What do you need from me right now? And they might say, I don't know. And guess what? That's also okay. You hold their hand, put your arm around them, sit there, you know. And you know, even to the guys out there, I'm telling you, guys, you can pick up another guy's hand. That's totally fine. Just say, hey man, I'm here for you. You know, whatever you need, just I'm here. And you can just and just stay quiet. That's it. Right. So that would be the best advice I could give.

The Power Of Silence And Asking What You Want

SPEAKER_04 24:56

I think that's perfect. Oh my gosh, that's so powerful. And and I think the big piece on that is just listening, like you said. Like ask the question and then listen, even if it's just silence. Just then you sit with that.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah. Silence is good because then you can hear the voice inside your head, right? That person can hear that. And that's probably the first time they've had some quiet with their kids yelling or their lawyer calling or the mediator asking for this, or their ex-spouse soon to be ex yelling at them about X, Y, or Z. It's it's like, okay, yeah, wow. I actually have a moment to myself to reflect and and hear hear what it is that I want. And and this is a really, I think, Natalie, Pam, this is really an important point. We spend our lives really as adults, and even as kids, right? When you're in school, your teacher is telling you what to do, your parents are telling you to do your homework. Don't punch your brother or whatever it is, right? You know, then as an adult, you have to go to this meeting, you have to finish this report, you have to do. We're constantly being told what to do. No one's ever asking us what we want, right? Never. Like, when was the last time somebody said, Hey, you know what, Natalie? What do you want to do today? Probably your I bet your first reaction would be like, I don't know, what do you want to do? You would have deflected immediately, right? Because you're like freaking out.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Somebody asked you what you want to do. You're like, what do you want to do? Why are you asking me that? And she says, How dare you ask me that? So exactly.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

It's true. And I'm gonna, whatever you want to do is fine for me. That's great. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

You know, right? Because if you're friends, you panic, and that's that's that's what would happen in this situation.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Yeah, that's powerful, Joe. Thank you. Oh my gosh, so many nuggets of wisdom. I think that not just apply to people that are going through a divorce. I think these are great just from a relational standpoint, um, romantic and platonic, right? There's a lot of great takeaways that you've given us in our time together today. So thank you for that.

Service Above Self And Local Impact

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Yes, yeah, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. It's uh I'm all about improving relationships. There's enough acrimony out there, there's enough people who aren't going to get along with each other for whatever, God only knows what reason. But where when you get hopeless and when you're feeling down, I'm a member of the Rotary Club and we always believe it's service above self. And we say to ourselves, how can I affect change in my own community? I can't worry about what's going on in Washington or in Europe or in Asia. I'm a person, I'm a human, I'm not a politician, but I can pick up that piece of trash, I can bring a meal to that elderly person who can't drive anymore, I can pet this dog, you know, and I can make my own world a better place. And a lot of that comes from those kinds of moments, but also the things we've talked about today, the language, how we show up, how we approach, how we listen, and how we care for people. Really powerful to think through that. There are people who are hurting out there in whatever relationship, work, personal, professional, and taking that time to listen to them and being there for them, best thing you can do.

Resources And How To Reach Joe

SPEAKER_04 27:56

Joe, if someone wants to get a hold of you or get in touch with you to work with you, how can they go about doing so?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Yeah, best place is probably our website, which is equitablemediation.com. That's the name of our company. If you go there, you'll see we practice in multiple states. So you can see where we practice. And also go into our resource center, we believe in education. We have a ton of, you know, podcast videos, downloads, worksheets, blog posts, you know, all kinds of articles, checklists for people to help them wrap their brain around what's been going on. I've been doing this for so long. I'm just sharing the wisdom that I've gleaned over all the years I've been mediating. And just if it can bring a little more peace to someone, a little more calm to their, to their selves, so that they can approach this process, you know, with with calm and dignity and a little peace in their heart so that it doesn't become that disaster and ruin them, that they can be resilient, that they can rebuild, and that they that they know their life's not over because it's not. This is a terrible thing you may be going through, but I promise not to sound trite about it, but this too shall pass. You just have to stay on the track and you know keep your eye forward and you know it's gonna stink while you're in it. I'm not gonna lie. But how you handle it in the process is really gonna set you up for the rest of your life. So that's the best way. Website at equitablemediation.com. You can schedule a free call with us if we practice in your state. You'll get to talk to Cheryl. If you want to meet with me, you can do that as well. Um, all that stuff is out there on the website. So that's a great way to start. Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

That's fabulous. Thank you, Joe. We appreciate you so much. Thank you for taking the time out to share uh just a snidge of your knowledge with our listeners um today. I I feel like there's so much more in there, but we can't give it all away because then your practice. I mean Right, yeah. We'll have to make this a multi-part series to go to volume two.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

But no, thank you for having me. I always appreciate it. Yeah.

Closing, Book Plug, And Subscribe CTA

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Absolutely. Absolutely. We will make sure that we put your website and the contact view social handles on the show notes as well. So our listeners can easily access it from there. And for our listeners, you all know the spiel. If you are interested in learning about what's happening in the world of Reignite Resilience, head on over to ReigniteResilience.com or follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Oh, and if you have not picked up the book from Amazon, apply it gift, make sure that you go and do so now. Until next time, we'll see you all soon. Bye everyone.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas to fuel the flames of passion. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes, and of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.