From Burnout To Book Deals + Resiliency with Teri Brown (part 1)

Burnout can feel like a locked room; Teri Brown found the key on a tandem bicycle. After years in an emotionally abusive marriage, she rode 3,102 miles across the United States and came home with a bolder truth: the hardest part isn’t “can I do it?”—it’s “what do I want?” From that moment, the words flowed, and a novelist’s voice took shape.

We dive deep into how Teri crafts character-driven fiction that feels timeless. She shows why people in the 1890s and people in 2025 share the same emotional DNA: grief, love, hunger, hope. You’ll hear the origin of Sunflowers Beneath the Snow, a Ukrainian family saga inspired by three pages of real events wrapped in eighty-two thousand words of imagination. Teri explains how she trades perfect, unbelievable protagonists for flawed, compelling humans, and why she’ll delete tens of thousands of words to protect a character’s voice.

Creativity lives in the margins of our lives, so we talk about widening those margins. Teri “storms” along the beach to clear mental noise, writes in long, intuitive bursts, and uses retreats and coffee shops to put distance between the page and the laundry buzzer. We face the guilt many of us—especially women—feel about putting art before chores, and we offer practical ways to build boundaries that honor your work. Then we pivot to play: Little Lola and Her Big Dream, a children’s story about a train who wants to be an astronaut. The twist? NASA later announced its lunar rail concept, turning Lola’s “impossible” dream into a near-future headline.

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Transcript

Welcome And Episode Focus

SPEAKER_00 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Welcome back to another episode of Reignite Resilience. I'm your co-host Natalie Davis and I'm so excited to be back with everyone. And joining me is your co-host Pam Cass. Hello, Pam. How are you?

Short Weeks And Overloaded Mondays

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Hello. I am fantastic. It is Monday of a holiday week. So we kind of have a short week this week, which uh I am looking forward to.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

It is. It's interesting. You know, it's just this time of year, tis the season. I feel like every week for the rest of the year is going to be a short one. So we're just gonna make the best of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

We are, we are, and let me tell you, we I I don't know about you, but I packed in a lot like a week's worth of stuff into just today.

Introducing Author Terry Brown

SPEAKER_03 1:16

A hundred percent. Yes. I had a conversation with someone earlier today. They said, well, you know, it's a short week, but why do we feel that we need to jam-pack everything into Monday? And I did. That's just how we roll. That's what we do. That's what we do. How fun is it if we don't do that? Oh my goodness. But we have a special guest that's joining us today. So I am gonna turn it over to you to tell our listeners who's joining us.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yes, I am super excited about this. So today we have Terry Brown. She has multiple novels. So novels including Sunflowers Beneath the Snow, a historical fiction set in Ukraine, an enemy like me set in World War II, and Daughters of Green Mountain Gap, a generational story about Appalachian Healers, 10 Little Rules for a Double Budded Adventure in an inspirational look at the life lesson she learned riding across the United States on a tandem bicycle. Her latest book, Little Lola and Her Big Dream, is a children's picture book helping children realize that it's okay to have big dreams. Welcome. We are so honored for you to get to spend some time with us. And I honestly, I just want to know like, how did you get into writing novels and then this kind of novels where you're intertwining history and just I'm so excited for this.

Childhood Dream To Become An Author

Life Detours And Harmful Marriage

The Tandem Bike Journey Across America

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Well, good. And I just want to say thank you so much for having me on. I'm really excited to be here with you. Becoming an author is something that I said I wanted to be as a little girl. But I also said that I wanted to be an Olympic ice skater and I wanted to be a brain surgeon. And I am very klutzy, and being a skater was never gonna happen. And I also am afraid of blood. Like I can't stand the sight of it. And so there's no way I'm ever gonna be a surgeon. So I don't think I really knew what I meant when I said I wanted to be an author, but I loved books. And I think I knew it was the only thing I knew that you could do with a book was be an author. So I think I just always knew that I loved books. But then life happened, right? And you know, I I get ready to go to college. Do you think my parents are going to pay for me to get a creative writing degree? No, they are not. You know, and so that that didn't happen. I I got a couple of degrees that unfortunately for my parents I did not use, but that's okay. I got my degrees and then I got married. I had four beautiful children. Becoming an author while trying to raise four beautiful children doesn't happen. I got divorced. I got remarried. He was a horrible person, and so it was an emotionally abusive relationship that I lived in for 14 years because I did not want to be divorced twice. I got out of that relationship, and that's when I started writing. So I started writing in 2017. Words just, I just had words, lots of words. And so out they came on the page. But I wasn't telling anybody I was an author. I was still a very damaged individual who'd spent 14 years in this horrible relationship. I met Bruce, who became my third husband. Yes, three guys. I've I've been married three times. And he always wanted to ride across the United States on a bicycle. I had been looking to do something big and bold because I wanted to prove to the world that I still had value. Right. Turns out that the world didn't think I didn't have value. That was just me, but I didn't know that at the time. And so when he brought that up, I thought, well, that's an adventure. That's big and bold, especially for someone like me, because I'm not athletic and I had not been on a bicycle in 40 years. So I said to him, Is this something you're gonna talk about until the day you die, or are you gonna do it? Okay. I said, No, I really want to do it. I said, Count me in.

unknown 5:15

Yeah.

Choosing To Write And First Novel

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Okay. And so we spent about a year and a half kind of training, prepping, finding the right gear and equipment for me. I mean, like I said, I hadn't been on a bicycle in forever. Um, then we were all ready to go. COVID hit, and so we thought, well, we're not gonna be able to go, but we both felt so sad about that that we decided that if we could start by the middle of July, that we would still be able to make it across the United States before the weather turned cold. And we ended up leaving at the end of June, and we rode 3,102 miles on a tandem bicycle. And at the end of that trip, the very last day, as we're coming into Washington, DC, which is where we ended, I thought, I just rode across the United States on a tandem bicycle. I can do anything. It's not it's not a matter of can I do something, but what do I want to do? And and so I asked myself that question, what do you want to do? And it was, I want to be an author. And 14 months later, my first novel came out.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Wow. Can we go back to when you were a little girl? Because not many kids say, I want to be an author. I loved books, I didn't say that. So was there like a particular book that you read that you were like, This is what I want to do? Was there anyone that inspired you?

Early Reading Obsession And Influences

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I don't know that as a child there was anyone. I was the kid that that if I had a book in my hand, I read it and I read it and I read it and I read it and I read it. There was one, it was like Mrs. Piggle Wiggle's farm. And it was about these Mrs. Piglewiggle, like fixed, naughty children. So they would come to her as like someone who who didn't eat all their food. And she had methods that she used. And and they were each chapter was like a different child that came to her farm. I have no idea. I've looked for it since. I can't find it anywhere. But I read that book over and over and over. I read every Trixie Belden mystery, I read every Nancy Drew mystery, I read all the Hardy Boys because I was told not to, because they were boy books, and so I read them anyway. So I don't really think there was one. I just always loved books. My mother found me at four years old under the covers with a flashlight. And I had apparently caught myself to read. I don't recall this, but I had taught myself to read. And when mom found me, I started to cry, not because I had been caught with the flashlight, which is why she was angry, but because I had been caught reading because I was told that you learned to read in the first grade. I wasn't in the first grade, and I thought I was going to be in trouble for having done it before first grade. Wow. Oh my God. So I think I just always loved books. And then my mother gave me a box not long ago of stuff, you know, cards that I made as a kid and all this stuff. There are story after story, they're terrible, but they're these little stories that you know, with with pictures drawn, and I would make the construction paper cover and the whole nine yards and make books.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

So it was just always planted in you.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah. Yeah. And and I thought all kids did that.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

No.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

No. No. Well, you've had four. You know it. They don't. But I mean, when I was a kid, I didn't understand other kids weren't doing that. I thought all kids did that. But yeah.

Character Growth Over Plot Perfection

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Yeah. It was funny because with my three kids, my middle daughter, she was like, she would, I would find her reading in the bathtub, and the bathtub water would be cold. And then my son, I couldn't get him to read a book unless I bribed him. And even then he didn't care. So they're just totally different.

Sunflowers Beneath The Snow Origin

SPEAKER_01 10:55

My mother would would come into my bedroom and say, Go outside and play. And so he would leave my room and I would open up my window and push my book out onto the ledge and go outside, grab my book off the ledge, climb up a tree, and read my book in the tree. And then she'd leave me alone. I was outside. That's what she wanted, right? It isn't really what she meant, but that's you know. But gosh, in a book, you can go anywhere. Well, and I did, and I went so many places, and I just know I just I become characters. And as an author, I'm a very character-driven author. It's it's about it's about the journey of the character. I want them to have started one place and I want them to end somewhere else. And I don't mean physically, very emotionally. You know, I want to see them grow. And I loved that even as a kid, watching these characters change. You know, in Mrs. Pigle Wiggle's Farm, the little kid hit meat and he became an eater, you know. The little kid was messy, he became non-messy, whatever it was. And I I've always loved to watch characters change.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

What was your first book that you have ever written, even one maybe that wasn't published, that you are that you would love to share with us kind of what the inspiration was behind it?

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yeah, so I'll I'll share the first one that actually made it. I I wrote several that they're just bad. They're just they're not any good. But it's it, but it's okay because how do you learn to become a writer without putting words on a page and then looking at them and saying, that's not very good. What should I do about that? But my first book is Sunflowers Beneath the Snow. And it is about three generations of Ukrainian women. And I have a Ukrainian friend, she's actually my daughter's friend, who came here in 2014 for summer camp. She was a counselor, and before she could go back home, Russia had invaded right in her hometown, and she was unable to go home. So in 2016, she's now it was now in the United States with uh whatever those emergency visas are or whatever, because she couldn't go back home. And so she was here and she came to visit in 2016. Now I'm still in the bad relationship, so I don't feel like a writer, and and I there's no way that I'm gonna do anything with this information. But she told me this incredible story of something that happened to her in New York. And I thought, there's no way I we must be having a communication issue here. And so I started asking her very pointed questions. You mean this, you mean this, you mean this, and she kept nodding. And when she was done, I thought, that needs to be a book. Like that needs to be a movie. Now I didn't think I was the person to do it, but that kind of stuck with me. And then when I was done on that ride, I knew what I was gonna write. It was like, that's the story that I need to write. Because so I wrote 82,000 words of fiction to tell three pages of truth. The last three pages of the last chapter actually happened, and everything else is just my imagination as to how that could have ever come out, how that could have ever happened.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Wow, that is so cool.

Learning Through Bad Drafts

SPEAKER_03 14:17

I I love that, and so that would have been 2017 when you when the word started to flow.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

So in 2017 is when the word started to flow. I wrote that book in one like 20 and 21, early 21. Okay, okay. So I I have several manuscripts between 17 and 21 that are various stages of yuck. You know, where I had to, I just had to learn like my my very first manuscript. Maybe there could be a story in it. I'd have to start from scratch, though. There's there's no editing it, it's it's not good enough. But my characters were perfect, they were perfect, and they were totally unbelievable and unlikable because they were perfect. They reminded me of those Baywatch women, you know. Oh, yeah. The kind that would like they'd dive into the water and they'd come up and they were just perfect, perfect, you know, and I needed a character that was more like me. The the go running into the ocean, trip, fall in, come up with a mouthful of sand, seaweed hanging off of one ear, and my hair all twit tangled in front of my face. And I needed a character like that, but I didn't know that at the time. And it was also my first, my first one right after getting out of that bad relationship. And I think maybe I made her perfect because I felt I needed to be perfect, or that I needed, I don't know, like like somehow maybe I was trying to channel what I thought I needed to be in order to like get through this next period or whatever. I don't know. I I try to go back and look at it. And like I said, the storyline is kind of cool, but the characters are just they're just not.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Oh my gosh.

How She Builds Realistic Characters

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Well, Terry, you talk about your ability to really like dive into the character development. Talk to us about that process because I think for for the non-authors in the world, or even just if you're a screenplay writer, what have you, whenever you're putting the characters in the piece, there is a depth of character development that needs to take place. What is where do you go? What does that look like? Where are you pulling this from? Talk to us about that character development because it sounds like it plays an important role in your books.

Universal Human Emotions Across Eras

SPEAKER_01 16:33

It does. I think a lot of people make the assumption that, you know, someone from 1890s is significantly different from someone from 2025. And the truth is that humans haven't changed that much between 1890 and now. We've changed technology, we've changed, you know, how we dress, we've changed how we can get from place to place. But in terms of how does a mother feel if she loses a child, in terms of what is it like to be hungry, in terms of what is it like when a mother and daughter don't get along, those really haven't changed. Those feelings are the same. And so I just kind of dive into my own life and and say, I know this, what would it be like if, for instance, in Sunflowers Beneath the Snow, there's a scene where the woman is very hungry. She lives in Ukraine. It's during the Soviet era food lines, and you know, you had to have tickets, and often you'd get to the front of the line and there was no food left and the whole thing. And she had been quite some time without food and was was very desperate in how she was trying to survive. I've never been that hungry, but I've been hungry. And so then I just played the well, what would it be like if I was hungry for two days? Okay, what would that be like five days? What would it be like at 10 days? What would I be willing to do to survive? What would that look like? And I just I just go with what I do know and then I pull, I just start asking those questions like what would it be like? What would it be like? Sometimes I do a little bit of research and talk to people maybe who have had experiences like that just to kind of get a feel. But when it comes to the emotional aspect of it, you know, I've been through, I'm 62, I've got a lot of emotions that I've that I have experienced in life, and I pull from those, you know, and it's like, what would that be like? What would I be willing to do to survive?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

What made you decide to do that transition to children's books? Because that's a that's a quite a difference from screen World War II children's books.

Shifting To Children’s Books

Lola The Train And Keeping Big Dreams

SPEAKER_01 18:51

So it's because I have a granddaughter. I actually have several grandchildren, but my granddaughter about a year and a half ago, two years ago, said to me, Gigi, when are you going to write a book for me? Oh well, there it is. Yeah, and I and I pretty much said, now, now it's when I will do that. And I had an idea right across the United States on the back of a tandem, you have a lot of time to think. Yeah. You know, there's you're just you're pedaling, you're pedaling, you're pedaling. And there was a lot of thinking time. And we were right along Highway Two for most all the way across from from Montana until we got to Michigan. And there's a train line that runs. And we would see it every day, trains every day. And we would often see the same engineers, and they would wave to us because it was like, oh, there's those crazy people out on that tandem. And you know, they are now, you know, 80 miles further this way. Well, I had this idea about a train who didn't know what kind of train she wanted to be. When I decided to write this story for Emma, it was like, okay, so what will she say she wants to be? She says she wants to be an astronaut train. And all of her friends tease her and tell her there's no such thing. And so she kind of goes on this little quest to find out, well, what could I be? And then in the end, she keeps her dream. And I like the idea of keeping the dream. Well, what's crazy, just crazy, is as soon as I get this book written, and I'm now I've I have a friend who was doing the illustrations for me, and the illustrations are about two-thirds done. Someone sent me an article knowing that I had written this book, and it was a NASA article where they're planning to put a train on the moon to take supplies from the light side of the moon to the dark side of the moon because they want to put a a space station on the moon. Yeah. And I thought, oh my gosh, there's such a thing now as an astronaut train. There you go. And so in my note, my author note at the very back, I tell the kids when I started the book there was no such thing, and now there is. And this is why we should keep our dreams. So I love it.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

Oh, that's so amazing. It's fun. Will you turn that into another book in the series, or is this one a one and done?

SPEAKER_01 21:13

I thought it was a one and done. Okay. I really did. However, I also wrote 10 little rules for a double budded adventure.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Okay.

From Rulebook To Kid Series Possibility

Humor, Menopause, And The Next Novel

SPEAKER_01 21:22

And in 10 Little Rules for Double Budded Adventure, one of the rules is keep dreaming. And I didn't even put the two together until later when I realized, oh my gosh, that's like one of my rules. And so I've kind of played with doing a series of 10 children's books, one for each rule, and and aiming it more at kids. Would it be all Lola the train? Would it be different? I don't know. I haven't I haven't really gone much beyond that. But yes, so there might be more, there might be more children's books in me. Who knows? Oh my, you're just cranking them out now. I do. I do. I'm uh in fact, I actually just had a meeting with my editor today. I have another manuscript out to her, and it looks like it won't take a lot of work for it to be ready. And so I hope to have it come out in the spring. And of do I have a name for it? No, I do not. I think it might be called Peg Unhinged. Oh. It's a women's fiction and it's humorous, and it's about a woman going through menopause. Oh, perfect. That's lovely. So I think Peg Peg Unhinged is something I'm thinking of. However, it's a beach, she's at the beach, and I've also considered something like peg overboard or peg unmoored or something. Like I'm unhinged, I love the word.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

However, maybe if I do something that was beachy, I'm I I haven't made a decision yet.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

It'll come to you. It'll be doing something, and it'll just like the inspiration will will spark.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Just a quick download on it. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Do you have a preference in terms of what you write?

Process: Dictation From Characters

SPEAKER_01 23:05

No, I, you know, it's funny. I have a character that will land in my head, and then I just need to write what it is that they tell me to write. It it sounds crazy, but I don't really feel like I'm writing. I feel like I'm taking dictation. I have these characters that just they they come alive in my head. In fact, the hardest thing for me is to give enough information to my readers. My editor, in fact, did it this time too was look, we need a little more about her. And it's like, what do you mean? You you can't you see it? Yes, because he's she's living in my head. And then it's like, I have to keep remembering, not everyone is in my head with me.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah. So, okay, so for somebody that is wanting to write a book, or is you know, as a little kid was like, I want to be an author and just hasn't taken that step. What are kind of your routines that you do to because I mean you're writing a lot of books, and I know you get the download, but are there specific places you write or specific things that you do to kind of get in that space?

Pantsing, Binge Writing, And Voice

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Unfortunately, I am the worst person to ask that question. Okay. No, because I am in my real life, when I'm not being an author, when I'm just doing life, I have a list for everything. I have lists everywhere. And I like printed lists that I can scratch out and I like to add things to my list that I've already done so that I can scratch it out, you know, the whole thing. And I'm very, very attached to those lists and they keep me so even. But when I'm writing, that doesn't work, it won't work for me. And so I'm very much what's called a pantser, which means I just kind of like sit down and start writing. I also am a binge writer. So I might sit down and write for seven, eight, nine, ten, twelve hours and then not write anything for a week because I'm I'm it's perking in my mind. I'm thinking, I'm trying out scenarios, and all of a sudden it'll be like, oh, and then I sit down and then I I just write, right, right, right, right, right. So I would love to say that I've got this beautiful routine that other people can follow. I I don't even really recommend my routine, but it works for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Do you ever bring your ideas to a storyboard and and and lay it out?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Or does it I've you know, I I've tried plotting using three different methods that people have have suggested to me. And I swear to you, my characters line up against the wall, cross their arms, and just say, you let us know when you're done with that stupid experiment, and we'll get back to writing.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

You know, they were like, we're not playing this game. We don't want to do it.

Walks, Waves, And Clearing Mental Clutter

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Right. And so, so like I can give you an example. In this book that I just finished, I kind of got into this space where I felt like I needed to write a certain number of words every day. Like I have to get this done. So I did. I sat down and I was doing it. I was getting those words out there. And then I had to stop for something. I my husband was ill, and so I needed to take a little bit of a break. And then in order to get back to it, I started reading, you know, let's read what I've written. I hated all of it. It was so bad. I had lost her voice. It wasn't funny anymore. It was just words. I had the words, but what good do they do? And so I I took, I had had like 25,000 words. It was now up to like 60,000 words, and I backed it back to that 25,000 words and threw all that away. All the stuff away and had to start again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Are there specific spaces or time of day that that those creative downloads come to you, or is it just kind of just very random?

Retreats, Coffee Shops, And Focus

SPEAKER_01 27:00

It's random in terms of time, but it usually happens after I have I I live near the beach. And so if I go take a walk on the beach, I often the first half of my walk, I I tell people that I storm. I'm just walking really fast and and my thoughts are just, you know, scrambled. And it's more about things I need to do and places I need to go and people I'm angry with, and you know, all the things, right? That that you're doing. And by the end of the walk, I'm walking more slowly and I feel like I'm in tune with the waves. I'm almost kind of like coming and going with the way the waves go, and ideas start popping into my head. So I just kind of need to clear, clear out life. And if I can clear out life, it can happen first thing in the morning when I watch the sun come up, or it can happen at two in the afternoon. It just depends on what have I done to kind of clear out the clutter.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

And I think that's a huge one is, you know, we've got so much clutter, so much, we're so busy all the time. That, and this is why Natalie and I, when we do our think weeks in Mexico, it's just that being in a different space, getting away from all of the technology and everything to just completely that's where I mean, we come up with some of the craziest amazing ideas when we're there because we can just well, and one of the best places for me to write is not here in my office. Yeah.

Permission To Prioritize Creativity

SPEAKER_01 28:24

So I love to go to a writer's retreat, someplace where they give you a space and and time, and they don't they don't require me to take any classes or to do anything other than be there. And when I'm there, I can write amazing amounts and and I will because my brain is in this space of oh, we're here to create. Yes, yeah, and then and then I can do it. And then I come home and I think I'm gonna keep doing it once I get home. And it's like, well, then there's laundry. Yeah, you know, grocery store, yeah, the grocery store. And then someone, someone, someone calls and wants to know if you could help do this or if you wanted to, you know, and and and I keep putting my writing on the calendar, but it's the first thing that I cross out when life gets too busy. It's like, oh, I've got these other things that have got to go on. But when I'm on a retreat, nothing else is on my calendar. If I look at my calendar, it says Terry, write. Yeah, and so it I don't know, it's like it gives me permission to just do that. So I do a lot of editing in my office, but I tend to write away from my office. Even if even if I just go to a a coffee shop, someplace that's not here, where where I don't hear the laundry bell ring that lets me know that I need to put things in the dryer, where I'll have my phone turned off and so people aren't calling me, where I'm not sitting here and thinking, oh, I didn't get the the ground beef out for dinner tonight, you know, and so I'm up and going, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

I think what you just said is such an important thing is we put things on our calendar that we love to do, and then we just skip over them because something else comes up. And so that intentionality of getting out of that space and getting somewhere that allows you to do it. I think putting yourself first and what it is that you love.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

I think you have to give yourself permission to go ahead and do the thing. And somehow when you're being creative, there's this tendency to say that that isn't as valuable as, I don't know, cleaning the toilet or whatever it is that is also on your list when it is actually more valuable, but it's hard to explain that to people. So if someone comes to your house and your house is filthy, but you spent all day long writing, it's hard to explain to them, hey, I spent all day writing. But if your house is clean, nobody asks.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

Yeah.

Guilt, Caregiving, And Taking Time

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Right. And so I think there's just this tendency, maybe I don't know if it's everyone or if it's just women. I sometimes think it's more of a woman problem where we feel like we've got to do all these other things. And when we get all of that done, then we can take care of ourselves. Then we can focus on us a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I had four kids and I spent a good portion of my life taking care of four children. There wasn't any time for me. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, and and now I have time for me, and yet I often I'm still not taking it because, you know, there's the the guilt that's associated with doing your thing. Yeah, we think it's selfish. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience Podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas to fuel the flames of passion. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download. Your favorite episodes and of course share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.