Stage Four Cancer Diagnosis + Resiliency with Dale Atkinson (Part 1)

A single medical test can flip your life from “busy” to “before and after” in minutes. We talk with Dale Atkinson, a health advocate, entrepreneur, father, and stage four cancer patient, about the exact moment he learned he had an oesophageal tumour while fully awake during an endoscopy, and what it takes to keep your mind steady when your body drops devastating news. 

We also trace the road that led there: years of worsening heartburn and swallowing issues, repeated reassurance that it was “just stress,” and the long, reactive waits that can happen in a strained healthcare system. Dale explains how his partner’s lung cancer was found by chance, how their family navigated major surgery with two small children at home, and why uncertainty can feel heavier than the diagnosis itself while you wait for scans, MDT decisions, and a treatment plan. If you care about resilience, self-advocacy in healthcare, mental health, and leadership under pressure, this conversation lands hard and stays useful. 

Along the way, we dig into practical coping strategies drawn from psychology and cognitive behavioural therapy, plus the hard-earned leadership skill of staying present in the room you are in even when your mind is racing ahead. The result is an honest look at grief, fear, and family, without pretending resilience is easy or clean. 

The Quiet Gift: A Journey of Self Worth and Resilience is now available for download as an audible.  Check it out!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Welcome back to another episode of Reignite Resilience. I am your co-host, Natalie Davis, and I'm so excited to be back with all of you today. And joining me, of course, is your co-host Pam Cass. Hello, Pam. How are you? I am fabulous.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

And I you've got some news that I feel like we need to share with the leaders that I'm just like randomly this morning getting ready. And I'm like, wait, what? She started a new peg.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

So um there's the news. Um I will announce it for for our listeners. So um if for those of you that haven't picked up on um some of the recent episodes that we've had lately, I have a little bit of a window that I've not been traveling. And so I've uh had taken this opportunity, you know, to do all of the little things, all of the little housekeeping things, going to get my emissions test while I'm, you know, sweaty and at post-workout. But also I uh have launched under the Leadership That Chimes brand, a leadership podcast. And the very first episode launched on International Women's Day. So this past Sunday, as of the time of this recording. And so that will be a weekly podcast where we talk about topics that pertain to leadership, leadership skills and attributes and qualities, and from time to time, leader stories that they're going to share with us just so we can continue to grow on our leadership journey. So I'm really excited about it. It's been something that's been on the back burner for a little bit of time. Yeah. And uh it I I couldn't stop ignoring it. It was one of those things that just kept rolling over on my to-do list. And I said, we're getting it done. And so it's done. Um so yeah, so that's the Leadership that Shines podcast, it's streaming on all streaming platforms. So if you want to hear more of my voice, go find it.

unknown 2:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

It's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

You know, our audience needs to know this. They probably know this about us by now. It's been long enough that if you leave us without anything to do, we'll do stuff like write books, um, create new podcasts. Um Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Absolutely. Oh, I've got three weeks. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

I went up in a two-seater airplane this Sunday, and uh, which is like I'm afraid of heights. Like I don't even like elevators. I walk stairs and here I am in this plane, you know, thousands of feet above Fort Collins, Colorado, flying around thinking like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

I can't believe it because yeah, you also like had this fear of coming back down. I don't know why you didn't have the fear going up it, but coming back down the rock in Gibraltar as well. So now you're like, I'll just get in a plane. I'm just gonna put it in the plane because nothing bad ever happens there. So was it an air or was there an engine? Was there an engine? It just had the propeller. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

It was just two seats. And just you know, they have those air gliders too that don't have to do that. I don't know. I I want to have an engine. The plane was a new plane, and it did the plane itself did have a parachute if something were to go awry. So I felt a little teeny itty bitty, little tiny bit better. But totally when you're looking at the screen saying, Well, what's that? Oh, that's another airplane coming towards it. Fine, totally fine.

Meet Dale Atkinson

SPEAKER_02 3:57

So, oh my gosh, we love it. The things that we get ourselves into. Listen, y'all, this is just a live movie host. So here we are. This is a video. I love it. We do have a guest that's joining us today, and I am honored to have him on and having the opportunity to hear his story. So, um, why don't you let our listeners know who's joining us today?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Absolutely. So we are honored to have Dale Atkinson. He is a health advocate, entrepreneur, father, and stage four cancer patient. Over the past 18 months, he has navigated life with a terminal diagnosis while continuing to build, invest, and create. His work combines personal experience with evidence-based thinking, and he refuses to accept that's just how it's done as an answer when better questions and safer options exist. Dale, we are so honored for you to take time today. And you are seven hours ahead of us, so it's late in the evening for you to join us today to share your story and you know give our listeners a little inspiration and things that you've used to kind of get through this time.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Well, first of all, hello both, and and thank you for having me. And uh yes, it is rather late here. I've already done bedtime for my two little boys. So uh yeah, it's it's cracking on later to the evening. So I apologize for the slightly darker lights, but uh I I guard my sleep like crazy, so I can't have two brighter lights at this time of night for me.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yes, yes, absolutely understood, as you should.

Life Before The Diagnosis

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yes, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about your story. So I know you've recently been diagnosed, um, but tell us maybe pre that diagnosis.

A Partner’s Cancer Found By Luck

The Awake Endoscopy And The Tumour

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Yeah, so I spent nearly 20 years in the finance industry. Um, I ended up sitting on the board of companies like HSBC, Wellington Management, who are a big asset management firm, etc. I had a Germany, what was considered a very successful, very good career. Um, back in about 2024, just before my diagnosis, uh, I'd actually just launched my own company as well, my own consultancy. And we were at the stage of we were just in final talks and signing off a contract with a retail high street bank in the UK for multiple tens of millions of pounds. I was in the process of hiring staff, etc., etc. Um, life was going brilliantly. And then roll on the summer of 2024, and unfortunately, before my diagnosis, uh, my partner actually had a funny turn. Um, so one day she started having these shooting pains in her chest, going all the way up her neck and all these sorts of things, heart palpitations. So we we rang up our doctor, and as they always do, panic station started. They thought it was a heart attack, and they sent around an ambulance and and you know, full blues and twos, flashing lights, sirens, carted her off to hospital, found it wasn't a heart attack, but somebody very thankfully decided to do an X-ray. And by pure happenstance and luck, on that x-ray they actually identified a small cell lung cancer. Uh, it was only about one and a half centimetres at that point in time, but they identified a nodule that was cancerous and really not good. So, fast forward a little while longer, and in October of 2024, uh, on the 3rd of October to be exact, she then went in and actually had a lobectomy, which is the entire sort of, she had a restion, as it's called, of the entire upper right lobe of her lung. So that was the 3rd of October. And then sorry if I'm jumping the gun and running ahead here, but then a couple of days later, um, so she came out of hospital, it's major surgery. So she was in in a major hospital in London in St. Thomas's, which is our sort of foremost cats' hospital in the UK. Um couple of days later, uh, after she came back, which was actually on our youngest little boy's first birthday, I then went in and had an endoscopy. Um as part of that endoscopy, unfortunately, they identified a rather large uh esophageal tumor. So an endoscopy, for anyone who doesn't know, is essentially where they put a camera down your throat. Uh, sadly for me, because my partner was recovering from her own cancer journey. Um, I wasn't able to go into the local anesthetic either. So I had a completely awake, completely cognizant, watching it on the screen as it happened, first person view of a camera going down my own throat and choking on it. I would strongly suggest to anybody who has an endoscopy, take the local anesthetic. It is not fun.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Get the sedation exactly.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Just take the drugs, say yes to the drugs.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Yeah. Yes. Oh my gosh. And was this routine like were you the endoscopy that you had conducted? Was that um just under doctor's orders? Is this something that you did as part of your precautionary annual? What prompted you to go in?

Years Of Heartburn Dismissed

Weight Loss Pain And NHS Delays

Grief Then A Terminal Prognosis

SPEAKER_04 8:56

No, so we don't tend to have precautionary annuals over here. It's not a done thing in the UK because we have a very different setup with our medical system over here, uh, because it's uh a state-run system as opposed to being a private system. Um so they're very reactive rather than proactive with these sorts of things. So this one, I'd actually been suffering with heartburn for probably about six or seven years at that point in time. Um, I'd been going to my my general practitioner, my doctor, my family doctor, we call them a GP over here. Um, I've been going to my GP for several years. I must have visited a good 10, 20, 30 times. Um, and they kept putting it down to the same sort of thing. You have a really high-powered job, you're obviously under lots of stress. You know, we were living in central London at that point in time, so right in the centre of London. My other half actually ran a private members' club. Um, so you know, big fancy Soho House type of setup. Um, and I was, you know, a high flyer in finance. So we were going out quite a lot, we were socializing, we were, you know, doing the networking dues once or twice a week, that sort of thing. And they just put it down to that. And we went, okay, yeah, we eat lots of rich food, we drink wine occasionally. Probably is that. Fast forward, you know, a bit longer, and I went back and back and back, and the sis uh the symptoms started to sort of escalate. So it went from a bit of heartburn to then I was getting sort of acid up my throat during my sleep. Um, then it became a little bit of dysphagia, which is essentially struggling to eat. So I was struggling to get food down and it would get stuck occasionally. It was always things like you know, heavy pastas and breads and stodgy food. And they just sort of kept explaining it away and explaining it away, and it's nothing, you're too young. And I was only in my early 30s at this point, so I just went, Yeah, of course I'm too young, it can't be cancer, you know, my life isn't that crazy, it couldn't possibly be. Um, and then we got to about February time in 2024, and I started having these really bad shooting pains up through my shoulder and my neck. Went to the doctor, they said it's muscular, go see a chiropractor, so I did. And the chiropractor said we don't think it's muscular, go back to the doctor, so I did. And the doctor eventually went, okay, maybe there's not something right here, you know, maybe something's a bit wrong. Let's put you forward for this endoscopy. But it's really unlikely to be anything interesting. We're not going to make it an urgent pathway, we're not going to make it anything too too stressful, uh, because we just don't think that this is anything worth noting. Um so February they started to book it. Uh it then took up until the September time, just before my partner's surgery, when a a young consultant picked up my case and went, So you've lost 30 or 40 kilos of weight. So, for context, I'm a former semi-professional rugby player, I'm six foot three, I'm used to being a big, big guy. I was 120 odd kilos at that point in time. I'd been in the gym lots, I had lots of muscle on me, etc. And, you know, I was the picture of fitness and health as far as most people were concerned. And this young consultant picked up my file and went, so you've lost 20 or 30 kilos of weight, you're in pain, you you know, have dysphagia, you have heartburn, the history of it. I think there might actually be something wrong here. We need to get you in relatively quickly. Um, so he was the one who then got my endoscopy booked in. Um, we also had to push it a little bit further than they wanted because my partner's uh surgery. Um and he also then decided to put me in a scan uh around that time as well. So, in the space of a couple of days, I had a CT scan and I had an endoscopy done on the camera, obviously during my endoscopy, because I was actually awake and cognizant for it, uh, and also being able to hear what was happening in the room, they spotted very quickly a very large calcified tumour on the screen. Um, and it was one of those where they couldn't hide it from me because I could plainly see it, I could plainly hear them talking about it. The fact that when these sorts of things are said, the whole room goes silent, even though it's doctors and they're used to it. It it gives you a feeling for where things are. Um, so I went home on my little boy's birthday to have an evening of birthday cake and candles with knowing that I had cancer. Unfortunately, things then took an even worse turn a few days later. Uh, and on the 27th, so 12 days after I was diagnosed, um, and a couple of days before that, I'd been up to see my mum to tell her in person that I had cancer and we'd let her know what was happening. And then unfortunately, on the 27th, um, she then died. Uh, and the next morning we got a phone call on the 28th from her friend to tell us. Um, very sadly, and seems to be the case with a lot of things in my life, that was also my eldest little boy's third birthday. So we spent his third birthday with my mother's death hanging over us. And the really sad and ironic thing is, and you know, we've already mentioned that I had a stage four diagnosis. So a lot of people will already know that that is a palliative diagnosis, that is an end-of-life diagnosis, a terminal diagnosis. The ironic and sad thing is that my mother had actually spent her entire career as a palliative care nurse. She was an end-of-life healthcare specialist and a palliative care specialist. So the one person that I really sort of needed at that point in time who could understand the journey that I had ahead of me and could help me with my options, unfortunately passed away just as I needed the most.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

And then a few days after that, so that was the Monday morning, we unfortunately found out about her death. And then on the Thursday, I went in to finally meet my oncologist and a surgeon. Um, sat in the waiting room, you know, as these things always happen, they were running late, and I'm there biting my fingernails off in anxiety. Walk into what was no more than a three-minute meeting. Um, and they told me, unfortunately, my cancer was incurable, inoperable, uh, palliative care only. Um, and they felt that my prognosis was sub-12 months. So they gave me less than a year to live. Uh, they later documented it and sent me a clinical letter outlining it, and they gave me an 11 and a half month prognosis.

unknown 15:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

Yeah, it was a heavy month.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Not when I want to relive often.

Staying Calm With CBT Skills

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Absolutely. Well, I mean, going even going back to when you're on the table and you're having the endoscopy, um, that like you're going through that process and you're there laying and you're fully aware, cognizant, and listening to the conversation with the scope that's down your throat. And try how where are you in your mind in terms of staying calm? Because that's definitely not the time that you can freak out. There's no space for you to freak out. You've got to just kind of be there and be with it. Um, talk to us a little bit about that, like those moments. Did it feel like forever as you were on that table?

SPEAKER_04 16:01

It always does in the moment. Uh I mean, very thankfully for me, I I had a couple of things that I sort of held on to at that point. So during COVID, uh no, let's take that back one step. So before COVID, I'd actually started as a board member for a very large mental health charity. Uh, they're an overarching suicide prevention and mental health charity, and they sit behind people like uh the Samaritans, etc. They're a network behind them.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

And I joined their board, and I was one of the only non-psychologists on the board. So during COVID, I actually went and decided to do diplomas in uh psychology and cognitive behavioral therapy.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

And as part of that, they teach you mechanisms to to help calm the nervous system, to help keep yourself sort of calm in stressful situations, etc. Yeah. And then atop that, if you look back at things like I was a semi-professional rugby player when I was younger, I was used to being under stress in different situations. I was also then used to standing in front of boards at the age of like 30, presenting in front of hundreds of people things that they didn't necessarily want to hear. Um, and generally being hated for it half the time and called lots of names and therefore feeling lots of stress for it. So I had a lot of preparation for this.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Yeah.

Getting The News Alone

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Um in that moment, yeah, absolutely. It lasted a lifetime. That probably one minute long, two-minute long endoscopy felt like it was hours. And sitting in the waiting room afterwards, because they they obviously sat me down and said, look, take some time, think about this, don't go just jumping in the car and driving home. So I did. And I think we worked out by the time I got home. I'd only been gone from the house about two hours, but it felt like a lifetime. So yeah, absolutely. Time slows down in these sorts of situations.

unknown 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

And was your partner with you at this appointment? Or so you were by yourself?

SPEAKER_04 17:47

No, sadly not. So my partner was only a couple of days out of her surgery, and due to her surgery, she had to avoid any sharp movements, she couldn't pick up any weight, she couldn't move anything. Um, and we had our two little boys at home who were only at that point were one and three. Um, very thankfully, my in-laws had flown in from the US. They're company based, or they were based in I I don't know where they're based at the moment. They move around so lot. They were in Texas at one point, Mexico, another point, they were in Chicago, Illinois, lots of places. They they live in the US.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Yeah, they they've flown in to help us.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Um to celebrate the the little one's birthday, probably. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Exactly. So they were at home with my partner. I drove myself there and I was just on my own. Um, and it wasn't uh a nice feeling to be sat on your own finding out something like that.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

And and then taking yourself to a birthday celebration at that. So did you and your partner have the conversation prior to the birthday celebration? After, like how how did that all transpire?

SPEAKER_04 18:55

So I I clued her in, of course. I gave her a phone call from the car and said, look, just take yourself out of the way. I've got something to tell you. Um, you know, I don't want to come in crying, feeling bad for myself in front of the boys. I want them to see their dad walking in enjoying the birthday. I want them to understand that, you know, the two things can be separate. Um we did, and we managed to hold it in. I do admit though, that evening I did have to open a bottle of wine because, well, what else do you do in these situations? Go and get a nice bottle of wine off the shelf. I think I've got a nice old Italian off the shelf, cracked open a bottle of wine and sat there with my thoughts for a fair while and put the kids to bed early and that kind of stuff. But yeah, it wasn't uh a pleasant sort of juxtaposition sitting there with this feeling of doom hanging over your head and just feeling like your world has ended as well. Um, we weren't expecting a cancer diagnosis in any way, shape, or form. We'd had so many reassurances along the sort of journey that this wouldn't be anything serious. It was probably just a bacterial infection. At worst, you've got a stomach ulcer. And they kept repeating these things over and over and over every time we spoke to a doctor, which was many, many times at that point. So to us, it was such a huge sort of uh a jolt to the system. It was a kick in the face sort of thing. I don't know how else to put it. It was just uh a shock that we we didn't know how to get through and over, and trying to sit with that shock, trying to still plaster a big smile across my face, sing happy birthday, blow out candles, have cuddles and all these things. It was a really, really difficult day to deal with. But we got through it.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah. Wow. And so your partner's trying to heal, you've got family in from out of town, you've got a little one going through her first birthday, and you've got the weight of this on you.

The Cruel Wait For The MDT

SPEAKER_04 20:46

Yeah. And I think to be honest with you, the the worst thing at that point in time wasn't the fact that I knew it was cancer. It wasn't the having to deal with all the bits and pieces around it. The worst thing was having an uncertainty around the weight. Because every time I spoke to them, it was, well, we're having what's called an MDT meeting at some point. Uh, an MDT meeting is a mixed and I can't say it, mixed disciplinary team meeting, where they have an oncologist, they have a surgeon, they have a doctor, they have a radiologist, etc. They have people from each different department in order to give an opinion on the case before they then sort of make a formal diagnosis and progress things. So I had to wait for that to happen and they couldn't give me a time scale. One minute it was, it's gonna happen this week, you're an urgent case, you're young, you're this, you're this, we will have an answer for you in a few days. The next it was, oh well, I don't know why somebody told you it was this week, actually, it's gonna be next week. Oh, well, it might be pushed to next month, it might be this, it might be this.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

And a treatment plan.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

I guess it's like the it's the gathering of like the council exactly, and the treatment plan then comes off the back of exactly that.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience Podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas to fuel the flames of passion. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes, and of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.