What If Pain Is A Teacher Not A Problem + Resiliency with Ayumi Otaki (Part 2)

You can be “successful” and still be running on empty and sometimes it takes a life event to make that impossible to ignore. We sit down with Ayumi for a candid, deeply human conversation about leadership, self-care, and what changed when she faced breast cancer while still trying to keep work moving. We talk about the pressure to look normal, the decision to be open with a team without turning your private life into a public broadcast, and why protecting your mind (including staying off internet rabbit holes) can be a real act of resilience. 

From there, we get practical and personal about emotional processing: creating space to sit with grief and anger, journaling what you feel, and letting support in instead of carrying everything alone. Ayumi shares the lesson so many high-achievers learn late, especially caregivers and nurturers: fill your cup first. We unpack how grind culture trains us to skip meals, ignore our bodies, and feel guilty for rest, and how that “productivity” eventually becomes counterproductive for the nervous system, health, and relationships. 

We also explore what grounded leadership looks like day to day: showing up with ease, being more present with your people, and modelling the self-care you encourage in others. You’ll hear about simple resilience habits like a screen-free walk, setting intentions, watching your self-talk, and being more intentional with your phone. If you’re navigating burnout, work-life balance, or leading while life is happening, this one offers both truth and tools. 

The Quiet Gift: A Journey of Self Worth and Resilience is now available for download as an audible.  Check it out!

Transcript

When You Hit Empty

SPEAKER_00 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Okay, first of all, taking the 7 a.m. appointment so that you can get right back into the office to show up for everyone else. I wish I could say that I'm surprised I'm not, just because we've already connected from the Virgo sense. Did the people around you know what was going on? Did they know that you were in treatment?

SPEAKER_01 0:58

They did. And that was when I called my CEO to ask her to tell her what was going on. That was the first question. Are you telling your team or are you not telling your team? You know, I've had the blessing of most of my team. We've worked together for 16 years, started in this office together. So we've kind of grown up together in the business. And it wasn't something that I wanted to hide, but it also wasn't something that I was going to broadcast on social media, for example. So I decided to be very open about it, and I received a ton of support from my team, a ton of love. Just they were all incredibly supportive in the process.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

That's wonderful. Wonderful. Wow. I'm not surprised though that you did that 7 a.m. meeting and then went to work all day. It was probably you were trying to keep normal, you know, keep as much normal as you possibly could when you had all this stuff that was kind of out of your control going on at the same time.

Retreats To Process Pain

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Your mind can play tricks on you. Like one of actually my good colleagues had also gone through breast cancer and had recommended her doctor to me. And the first advice she gave me was stay off the internet. Yeah. The internet is not your best friend right now, it's your worst enemy and your mind too, because if you're a hyperactive person and you're used to being very busy every day, the worst thing can sometimes be to fully slow down, even though that was a part of part of the messaging for me, was to slow down a little bit and practice more self-care. But yeah, it kept me sane through that process. But then I definitely had to intentionally carve out space in my life to process and integrate. And I went on a few retreats. I went to these places by myself and sat with the pain, sat with the grief, sat with the anger, wrote it out, cried it out, swam it out, did all the things to kind of meet all of the emotions where they were, and then try and release them to move the next thing. But that's a part of the process too, is you have to, I think, meet yourself where you are in that moment and take the time to acknowledge what this has done, how this has made you feel, all the layers of emotions that you go through, which are a range, to then process them. And then I believe in, you know, saying thank you for coming. I release you now. Goodbye. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

You may exit stage right. Yes. Would you mind sharing what you learned? I mean, once you got into that space of surrender, realizing that there was a message, there was a lesson for you. What was that?

The Lesson Of Filling Your Cup

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Sure. So I think already as women, we're naturally kind of wired to take care of everyone and everything in our environment. You know, it's the nurturer in us as women. I think in my life, a combination of my upbringing, things I went through as a child, being the eldest in my family, overseeing a team, and then the part of me that loves to help and be of service. I always prioritized helping and being of service without knowing how to first prioritize what my needs were. And that for me was the big lesson. And there's actually, there's a great book called Beet Cancer Like a Boss. And it's the story of, I think, 30 different women and their journey in breast cancer. They kind of all have the same story. It's this learning to fill your cup before you go to fill other people's cups. And learning to really actually connect yourself on that level to ask yourself, well, what do I actually need to give out the amount of energy that I give every day? What do I need to do all of the things that I'm doing for everyone else? But it's really just that reflex of what is it that I need and that I want energetically, physically, mentally. And when you are a giver and you are a caretaker and you prioritize all of those things, you know, we kind of often put ourselves laughs on the totem pole. So it was going, okay, wait, actually I belong at the top.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

If we ever remember ourselves, right? Like it's even if we ever remember, if we ever get to that. Yes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Exactly. And I think that share that story is shared by so many, not just women, right? Like it's not in our culture to prioritize ourselves. We prioritize work. We prioritize, you know, my friends that have children, they're children, we prioritize so many other things. And it's, you know, coming back to first like filling your cup and having that kind of conversation with yourself. That was, I think, for me, the big, the real big eye opener that is still a work in progress.

unknown 5:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yes. A long time of unwinding.

Leading With Ease And Presence

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, and developing that muscle and that reflex. And, you know, I was back at work this week and it's been a whirlwind and I've been busy, and it's like, oh yeah, you can so easily get caught up in the grind again and just moving very fast because our world moves fast and work moves fast. And it's it can be hard to slow it down and go, okay, well, what do I need just for a minute to feel like a little bit of reprieve or to feel a little fuller?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Yeah. How has that impacted the way you lead people? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

I've really dropped into the things that I know and know well now in my work. Whereas I think before, some of my drive made me feel almost energetically like I was always pushing against the stream. Like I had to push more, I had to fight more to keep creating and accomplishing. But it was coming from a place of almost challenge or fighting versus dropping into, okay, I've been doing this long enough. I know the parts of what I do that I can do well, and I can actually still be as efficient, but do them with ease. And that's something that has shifted for me where I'm like, okay, I can show up, but I don't have to show up with this underlying energy that's like, I need to do these things. Like I can just drop into it and surrender to, okay, I know, I know this and I know my team. And the more I surrender, the more I'm able to be present in each moment that an agent comes in, something that they need or something they want to talk about. I think the underlying energy isn't as frantic. It gets a little bit more grounded and even more grounded when you start to do the things that make you feel good too. Yes. It's like a combination. Love that. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Was it hard to discover and uncover the things that you wanted that you needed to fill that space to help you get grounded?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

I will say this is still an ongoing process to be continued. Yes, it adds and flows. You know, it adds and flows, and I think it's like a muscle that you exercise, you know, the same way you exercise your communication skills or going to the gym. It was one of the things that I worked on last year with Mike Staver, who I hired as a coach. That was one of the first things that even came up in coaching. So I'm committed to always continuing to work on myself and find ways to look at my own growth, ways to better myself, ways to carve out that time. And it's a practice, right? It's like deepening your practice of self-care and self-love. And, you know, you should some days you have great days, some days you're like, wow, it's four o'clock and I haven't even had lunch yet. Exactly. Yep. Exactly. That happens. And that's, you know, that's part of that practice. It's like, okay, well, how do you get so busy that you can't eat until four o'clock? It's a small thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Or go to the bathroom or stand up or drink some water. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

I mean, that's the example that we've seen, right? Like if we look at the women before us, and I know I'll make it an I statement and not speaking it over everyone else. My mom was a nurse, and I remember many of shifts where she'd come home and she's like, oh, I didn't have time to go to the bathroom. She was in labor and delivery, and she's like, I didn't have time to go to the bathroom today after working like a 12-hour shift. And I'm like, that's not healthy. Like, that's not normal. But that was the example. And I'm like, okay, work hard, grind, keep going, don't stop. You don't need to eat. It's fine. You don't need to use the bathroom. It's fine. It's not fine. That's the message today. It's not fine. It will show up in your life in some way, shape, or form because you can't continue to operate like that.

Work Culture That Normalises Depletion

SPEAKER_01 8:41

No. Completely. And it's normalized, I think, in our society and our culture. Almost a different way than, you know, you go to Europe. One of my friends moved back to Europe, and part of their contract is you cannot eat your food at your desk. Yeah. Which is brilliant. You have to take an hour lunch break. Like it's a mandatory part of the contract. This is in Paris. So it's brilliant. Culturally, we have a culture also, I think, in this country of work, work, work. And it's never enough. And so that's, you know, you're all so challenged by the society around you and the culture around you. And it's like, what, you're gonna go take an hour lunch break? There's things to do.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah, exactly. I feel I personally am witnessing a little bit of a shift. I'm seeing a shift. More, more embrace of, you know, saying no, stepping back from overcommitting. I'm witnessing that. I don't know how many generations it's going to take for it to become a cultural norm like it is in Europe. But I mean, the simple act of not eating in front of your screen shouldn't be a hard concept to embrace on a while standing up or while you're walking or in your car when you're, you know, running to an appointment and oh God, eating nuts out of your purse and all those things that we've done. We've done it. Okay. So yeah, so that's just us. That's A and I have done many of conferences where we've go the entire conference and we forget to get something to eat, and she's got dusty nuts in the bottom of her bag, and we we share them. We share them. And it's and it's blow them off and eat them.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

And that's fine once in a while, but those, I think when that becomes the norm and that accumulates in the body, in our energetic system, in our nervous system, that's when you start running on empty. And it's that's where it becomes counterproductive, you know, it's like you're looking to be productive, but it actually becomes counterproductive. And so nourishing your body properly, getting the right amount of sleep, doing all the things that you need you know to reset your system and keep your system resilient for everything that we go through every day. That that's part of the rewiring is oh no, wait, actually, I need these things. I need this balance, I need to think about all of those things that keep me balanced so I can be the most successful version of myself, right? But in our move towards success, sometimes all of those things fall on the wayside because of society, because of time, because of everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah, exactly. For me, it was I know that when I was taking time for myself, I felt guilty. Like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this. I should not be doing this. I need to be doing something else. And that's a whole unwiring of that belief that you create. Now it's like I had no problem with it. Totally fine. Totally fine. But it's taking, I'm 55, it takes a long time.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Well, and how do you create awareness around that? Because oftentimes that sense of guilt, it's there, but it's not in the frontal lobe part of our brain. It's not in the conscious mind, it's just subconscious. So even being able to take enough time to get quiet to realize that you're feeling guilty for taking time off. Exactly. But it really is, I think, carving out time for yourself, you know, whether it's let me just go take a walk for 15 minutes without the distractions of my phone and kind of just check in with my body and how I'm feeling and all those things, slowing it down a little in a fast-paced culture.

Guilt, Boundaries, And Self Care

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah. And are you seeing this with your team, with the agents in your team, because you've kind of had this shift, kind of change your priorities a little bit, taking more time for yourself. Are you seeing them kind of following your lead on that?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

I'll say that I always try and create an open, safe space for my agents to share anything and everything. And I have always been an open book to them about my own growth at different moments of my career. I'm comfortable being vulnerable in front of my team like that. And, you know, if they take something from that and implement it, that's, you know, the dream, that's amazing. I will encourage my agents, you know, the self-care practice. And I used to do it without doing it myself, which was the part of the cancer lesson. You know, I was I was coaching and training my coaching my agents to say, Oh, you're overwhelmed. Listen, go take a moment for yourself, go take a breather, but I wasn't doing it. So, you know, I think it goes back to what I was saying in the beginning. We all learned from one another, and sometimes my agents come in with something that they're going through, and it's a reminder for me of, oh yeah, I'm about to tell this agent to slow it down a little. I need to slow down a little too. There's always sharing in the experience with the team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

I love that. In terms of the ripple effect and the shift of like being grounded from this place of leading, I like to say it's with ease and grace. It's a mantra that I had earlier in my leadership career, is like being able to lead from a place of ease and grace. Are you seeing that impact, like just the environment, the work environment itself, or even that space that you've worked so hard to create, that psychological safety zone for your for your team? Are you starting to see that ripple effect as well?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

I think we have a really strong sense of community in my office. And it's something that I've fostered from day one because it was the kind of office that I joined. There was community in my office when I joined, and when I became the manager, even with the lack of knowledge I had in management, I knew that that was one of the pillars that I wanted to build that office on. And yeah, I do believe that the energy that you show up with, and you know, you can call it grace or groundedness, but everyone's energy feeds off of everyone's energy. So I definitely try and show up every day with the intent to care for my team, support my team. And I do think that I've gotten even better at it now that I'm doing that for myself as well. You know, that definitely I think just it's a natural result from practicing what you've been coaching on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

And you know that that's not the norm, right? You're part of a big brand. You have the inside of other offices. So kudos to you for not only just recognizing that that exists, but being intentional to keep that and making it a priority for those practitioners in that office. That's huge. Definitely from a leadership standpoint to continue to hold that together.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Thank you. Or influencing.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

I won't say that you're holding it all together because it is a collaborative effort. Influencing it exists. Yes, influencing it.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

I believe in that holistic approach to real estate where it's, you know, it's I've never approached management from the numbers. I've always approached it from the human being that's on the other side of my desk and how I can help them. And that if when people feel good and are happy, they will naturally then do great business. Right? You can't pound them about the numbers and all of that, and that's never been my style. And I, you know, I'll give a shout out to my mom that when I moved to New York, she was like, you better not forget where you came from. Don't forget you have a heart, you're going into the business world. And you know, at the time I was like, okay, mom, you know, you're 25 years old. But today I really see that, you know, that advice that she gave me of staying connected to your heart and the reason why you do something. That then reverbates into your team. And my team also does all of that because they care deeply about their clients and what they do. So yeah, it's a shared collective experience. I have to say, I have some amazing people on the team.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Part of that's though, the culture that was there when you started and that you have carried through in how you lead people, which is huge. Need more leaders like you. Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Okay, so Ayumi, if we are talking to a listener that is finding themselves today, in this moment, where they are teetering in terms of their leadership style and the space that they're in, and life is also happening alongside. What words of wisdom do you have for those individuals?

Quiet, Support, And Journaling

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Great question. I think I would go back to the concept of slowing it down for a second, but like create and find a space where you can get quiet for a moment and take some deep, deep, deep breaths and lean into the support that you have around you. I think a lot of us go through difficult things and we'll go through them silently and on our own. If you have support around you and you can lean into that support, people who care about you want to be there for you. And that's something that I learned in this too. You know, people are used to surround you, they they want to show up for you and they want to be there for you. And yeah, and try and journal, write about what you're feeling, you know, connect to what you're feeling, and really just trust the process. Yeah. I think it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

That is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

I was gonna ask about your mindset practices, but it sounds like that's exactly what you just wrapped up with that piece of it in terms of the journaling. I am curious. Do you have like a structured morning routine on how you start your day?

Morning Rituals And Clear Intentions

SPEAKER_01 17:11

I have more of one today than I've ever had. Lemon water, a smoothie, and then some coffee. I've always walked to the office, which is a huge luxury, and I've always taken that time to walk to the office. I'm not on my phone. I kind of just take that time to ground in, and I also set my intentions for the day. Like I get really clear on my intentions. And it's not like a, I don't know, I'm very free-flowing and always in a lot of places at the same time, even in my mind. But the walk, it's just, it's my time that I take for myself, and I try and think about kind of how I want to show up that day, what my intentions are. I really believe in the power of intentions. There's a great book, The Hidden Messages in Water by Dr. Imoto. I don't know if you both know it. Dr. Imoto, who's now passed away, was a Japanese scientist who wanted to prove the like the existence of vibrations in water. And when you think about our bodies that are more than 80 to 90 percent water, and so what he did is he exposed water to different sounds, and then he would use a microscope to photograph the water at a microscopic level. And when he would say, play like classical music to the water, these beautiful snowflake formations would form. And when he played, let's say, heavy metal music or read a poem that was about death, the water would get like all murky. Did you guys ever hear of the rice experiment?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

A lot of people are familiar with him for that. So he took three jars of rice with water, and for a month he went to the first jar and he said, I love you, I love you, I love you. To the second, he said, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you. And to the third, he ignored the jar. And after a month, each jar evolved differently. So the one that he said, I love you too, fermented, the one that he said, I hate you to, like, I think it was like it turned black, and then the one that he ignored just molded. And when you take like his scientific research, if you think about it just on like a sound and vibration and word level, like even words carry an effect. And he was able to prove that in water. So I kind of lean into that concept of just like even the words that you're using in your mind throughout your day, if you can get quiet enough to hear what you're thinking, and I'm not an avid meditation practicer, I don't practice meditation the way this sounds in any shape or form, but I do try to bring awareness into the thoughts that I'm having, and then also the things that I want to create. And I believe by saying them in your mind and thinking, you know, I might come into my day and be like, okay, you know, I really want to show up for my team today, and I'm gonna do a lot of business strategy with everyone, whatever it is, it can be something very simplistic, but I believe there's power in words, power in your mind, and then the power that comes behind that to actually manifest those into reality. And his work, if you haven't read the book, it's a phenomenal book. You can even just Google the snowflakes, like Dr. Yimoto's water, water exercises. It's incredible. Like all the snowflake formations for all the beautiful things that were said or that the water was exposed to versus really negative stuff, and you just see how even water reacts to that. So I, you know, I believe in the power of words and setting those intentions.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

And I love the idea of that practice of no phone and just the walk.

unknown 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

It's so special program to just go grab our phone as soon as we get up in the morning and start our day and taking that space to not touch the phone and just have that moment to get clear and set the intentions. Such a powerful way.

Words, Water, And Mindset

SPEAKER_01 20:38

I'm working on that part too. It's so easy to we all have the reflexes for a phone first thing in the morning, which we didn't do that 20 years ago. We didn't have them. Yeah, you had a cord connected to it. So yeah, a little different. And I think that phones are something that have also made us feel more nervous as a society and as people, because we really they've become such an extension of us, especially for those of us that are on email and work off of our phones, and also bringing awareness to that and just okay, how can I be more intentional with how I use my phone and claim back moments in my day, like the morning? I'm working on not grabbing the phone right away, but it's you know, you grab the phone to look at the clock, it's the first thing that you look at. Absolutely. Um but I think I could feel healthier if I released some of my attachment to my phone.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Absolutely. It's shackled, it's not even attached, it's absolutely shackled to feel and that's not a judgment of you, that's an us, that's our mind. Yes, absolutely. Um I love the intentional intention walk that you get every day. That's such a special trait. And and not everyone's able to have that experience. And so I think, like you said, it's just the intention of creating it, right? And knowing because you very well could just take out that extra. Appendage that we have called our telephone and use it or make calls or and that's often what we do, right? We have a moment to ourselves, and it's like, oh, you know what? This is a great time for me to catch up on my phone calls. Let me do that. Instead of let me take this moment to be with myself, just a moment to be with myself before diving into the next thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And it ebbs and flows. I'm not on point every single day. I'm a human being, like it ebbs and flows. There's days where I'm like, okay, I'm really having this walk. And then there's other days where I'm halfway through the walk and I remember something and I'm grabbing my phone. So it's, you know, I think it's more just like get clear on what your intentions are and then, you know, surrender to the practice and know that it's a practice and that it ebbs and flows, and it's not a perfect science. It's not gonna be on point every single day, but at least you're clear on your intentions and you're showing up to that in the best way you can every single day. I love that. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

I know. Thank you so much, Ayumi. We touched on quite a bit. Thank you for sharing your personal story and your professional journey. Congratulations and kudos to you on all of the success. Is there anything that you'd like to leave our listeners with that we haven't touched on today?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

I think we covered so much. Yeah. Trying to think. I mean, just for me, I found beauty on the other side of some of the most challenging moments. So I think that as just a way of looking through things, even when you think you're in your darkest hour, you know, there's only one way up from the bottom of the barrel.

unknown 23:23

Yeah.

Phone Habits And Daily Practice

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Only one way up. It's up. But you gotta touch the bottom and believe that there's light on the other side. And I really believe in that kind of yin-yang factor of life. You know, you can't know joy without knowing sorrow. You can't know love without knowing grief or heartbreak. And I think we're culturally programmed to embrace love, embrace joy, embrace positivity. Whereas the dark side, the grief, the pain, we resist it. It's like we just want the joy and the sorrow. And actually, pain for me and grief have been one of my biggest teachers. Once I started looking at them through that lens and going, okay, actually, let me meet pain the way that I meet joy, right? Because we resist it, and actually the real pain is the resistance.

unknown 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

So yeah, you know, go through the dark to find the light. Love that. Now that the light's on the other side.

Finding Light Through Grief

SPEAKER_03 24:16

I think that's a beautiful place for us to land. Thank you. Oh, thank you, maybe, for having me. Oh my gosh. This has been amazing. I know. And you start off by saying, well, I don't really like broadcast my personal experience with breast cancer on well, here you are on an international podcast. Thank you for sharing it with us. We are grateful that we were able to create a space and create this community where we are able to take and bring our adversities to the table, have candid open discussion, talk about the things that work that don't work and the light and the dark, right? The duality of it all so that we can continue to enjoy this fabulous journey that we call life.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Yeah. I know. Thank you, ladies, Natalie and Pamela. I love that you ladies are doing this. And I really hope that you continue to do this for all the community that's out there listening. It's a beautiful thing. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Thank you. Oh my goodness. Absolutely. We will make sure if someone wants to reach out to you, we'll put your contact information in the show notes. And then we'll make sure that we put your social media handles in the show notes as well so that folks can connect. And for our listeners, make sure that you check us out on your favorite streaming platform. Head on over to YouTube and watch the video version of this episode as well. And if you want to learn more about what's happening behind the scenes of ReagNet Resilience, head on over to Reagnetresilience.com. Find us on Facebook and Instagram. Until next time, we'll see y'all soon. Bye everyone. Thanks, ladies.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas to fuel the flames of passion. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform. Like or download your favorite episodes, and of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.