Joey's Song: Mike's Mission to Honor His Son Joe (part 1)

Joey's Song exists because one Wisconsin family turned the loss of their son into an ongoing mission to fund epilepsy research. In Part 1 of this Reignite Resilience conversation, hosts Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass sit down with Mike, founder of Joey's Song, a nonprofit built in honor of his son Joe, who lived with Dravet syndrome, a severe and treatment resistant form of childhood epilepsy.

Mike walks through Joe's story from the beginning. Joe was adopted from Guatemala and had his first seizure at three months old, sitting on his grandfather's lap. What followed was four years of misdiagnosis before doctors identified Dravet syndrome, a chromosomal condition that left Joe nonverbal and in need of round the clock care. Joe passed away just before his fifth birthday in 2010. Despite everything he went through, Joe loved to sing and dance, especially to Elmo's song, and that joy became the reason the nonprofit carries his name.

Mike explains why he chose a goal over a rigid plan when he started Joey's Song, and how a chance reconnection with college friend and Grammy winning producer Butch Vig turned a small local concert into something neither of them expected. He tells the story of the night a newspaper interview accidentally created demand for a show that had no lineup yet, and how that pressure led to the format Joey's Song still uses: musicians from bands like Cheap Trick, Garbage, and the Bangles forming one time only supergroups on stage together.

The second half of the conversation turns to family. Mike and his wife Nori raised their two other children, Julia and Sam, through the loss of their brother, and Mike speaks candidly about how couples who lose a child face some of the highest rates of separation, and what kept his marriage steady through it. He also shares how Julia and Sam are involved in Joey's Song today, and how the volunteer team behind the event grew out of matching friends to the tasks they were already good at.

In This Episode:

• How Joe's story led to the founding of Joey's Song
• Why Dravet syndrome is a chromosomal form of epilepsy with no cure
• The unplanned story behind the celebrity supergroup concert
• How Mike and his wife supported their surviving children through grief
• Why Joey's Song runs entirely on volunteers and unpaid artists

Part 2 of this conversation covers the Freezing Man concert itself, along with the scale of epilepsy worldwide and simple ways listeners can help.

Listen to Reignite Resilience: https://reigniteresilience.buzzsprout.com
Learn more about Joey's Song: https://joeysong.org

The Quiet Gift: A Journey of Self Worth and Resilience is now available for download as an audible.  Check it out!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

All of us reach a point in time where we are depleted and need to somehow find a way to reignite the fire within. But how do we spark that flame? Welcome to Reignite Resilience, where we will venture into the heart of the human spirit. We'll discuss the art of reigniting our passion and strategies to stoke our enthusiasm. And now here are your hosts, Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

SPEAKER_05 0:43

Welcome back to the Reignite Resilience Podcast. I am your co-host, Natalie Davis, and I really am happy to be here because technology has not been working in our favor today. Yes. And I continue to get kicked out of the show, and I'm not sure what's going on. But anyway, welcome, Pam. How are you?

SPEAKER_06 1:00

I am fabulous. Take three. We've got the three this time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

We need to do it. You know what's humbling is that typically we are a one-take wonder, and now here we are. You know what? Technology is great until it's not. And I have no idea what it's doing.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

But well, you know what? The weather has been weird. It looks like we've got a storm maybe brewing and coming in. So maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know, but we've got an incredible guest here today. So we are excited about that. And we are glad you're back, Natalie, because Mike and I were just hanging out chit-chatting, but I we didn't want to, we didn't want to, you know, get all the the juicy pieces. I know.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

I was like, who wants to talk to Mike too? Like, give it a minute.

SPEAKER_06 1:42

Like, let me get in there. I know. So we were trying to talk about the weather and you know, just that type of stuff that, you know, not very significant.

SPEAKER_05 1:50

So we we were you thank you for buying me time. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 1:53

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:54

So for our listeners, let them know. Like, who is who's the mysterious Mike? Who are we talking about?

SPEAKER_06 1:59

Oh, yeah. So today we have with us Mike, and he lives in Sun Prairie, Wisconsin with his wife, Nori, and their three dogs. They are the proud parents of two adult children, Julia and Sam. After a successful career with the IBM, Mike retired and now dedicates his time to Joey Song, the nonprofit organization he founded in honor of his son Joe. Following Joe's heartbreaking battle with epilepsy, Mike transformed Unimaginable Loss into a mission of hope. What began as a small fundraiser with family, friends, and a few musicians has grown into one of the country's most unique music-driven charity events, bringing together legendary artists and passionate supporters to fund epilepsy research and raise awareness. We are so honored to have you here, Mike, and so honored to be able to hear Joey's story and what has come from an unimaginable event to something that is impacting millions of people.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

So welcome. Thank you. And before we go into it, I just want to say that all the technical difficulties are just showing you guys how resilient you are. So you're you're you're living your mission. So there you go. But thank you. Thank you for both of you for having me here. I always love the chance to talk about what we do. And one of the side benefits of all this is 15 years after he left us, I still get to talk about my son. So that's a pretty cool thing, too. So I'm I'm excited to take the time and and tell you guys all about it.

SPEAKER_06 3:38

Well, let's start with Joey. Let's start with his story.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Yeah. So um, Joe, like all three of our kids, was adopted. And all three of our kids were adopted from Guatemala. They're not biological siblings. Um, Joe was the third of those kids and came home in about three months after he came home, he had his first seizure. He was sitting on grandpa's lap down in Chicago, and uh his aunt walked by and recognized what was going on. Fortunately, grandma and grandpa lived literally right across the street from Illinois Masonic and took him over there. Um and that was the beginning of a four-year journey of some misdiagnosis and a lot of worrying and a lot of um false leads, let's call it that, um, that eventually ended up into it ended up with Joe leaving us just shy of his fifth birthday uh in 2010. He was diagnosed eventually after a couple years of misdiagnosis with something called Drave syndromes. Now, epilepsy is a spectrum disorder, like a lot of it. There's not just one epilepsy, it's like cancer, right? There's not just one. Um, there's lots of different things that cause it, and there's lots of different ways it manifests itself. Um, and I'll I'll do that real quick. Um, so uh you can either be born with uh deformity, which can cause epilepsy. You can have a chromosomal disorder, which is what Joe had, or a lot of our first responders and uh service people come back with epilepsy because uh a knock in the head can also cause it. So it's it's also a big uh issue within that first responder and service community um as well. So Joe's was chromosomal. There, I I will not even begin to try to explain it to you at a level other than that the three of us can understand, because you I go I go any deeper and I start to babble endlessly. Um there's there's something in our brain called sodium channels, which is what moves the information around. And Joe's sodium channels didn't do what they were supposed to do. So that led to him having frequent seizures. And unfortunately, uh Dravaise does not have effective treatments and cures, as about 30% of the people with epilepsy as well, don't have that. But so it made Joe nonverbal. Um, and he was going to need, you know, 24-7 care. The prognosis wasn't good, but he was an extremely happy kid considering all the all the curveballs that life threw at him. And he is the inspiration for what we do, not just in need, but in concept, because one of the things Joe loved to do was sing and dance, even if it was in his own unique way. Um, if you were in the room with Joe and Teletubbies came on or Elmo came on, uh, it was his mission to make sure that everybody in the room was up, standing up, and dancing. Even if you were just doing a little bopping around, uh, and he was not happy until everyone was doing that. So when it came time to figure out a way to raise some money, putting on events where people sing and dance sure seemed like a pretty solid fit for that. And so, and then the connection to the name Joey song is Joe could sing Elmo's song. So when it came time to name the charity, we had to name it da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, Joey's song.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

So Joey's song.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Um that that's Joe, that's Joe's story. And uh he went through more than most of us go through in our lifetime, more ambulance trips than any of us do, and more hours and days in the pick you than most of us do. Somehow that kid was always laughing and smiling, so in a sense of a child. Yeah, yeah. It just if your life is dedicated to making people happy and singing and dancing, no matter what afflictions you have, you've got it figured out. Joe, Joe understood the assignment. Love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

I can only imagine the things that are going through a child's mind, right, at that time, because it's, you know, we're not sure what's going on, let's do additional testing. And it's all the adult language and discussion and talk, right? And and all the while the child is the one that is is experiencing it. So Joe is the one that is experiencing these things while the adults are trying to figure it out. Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

And and because he was nonverbal, he couldn't explain. One of the things that caused the times when Joe was not happy was when he couldn't communicate. Because I mean, we don't know, none of us know where his brain was otherwise. But the fact that he understood music and knew a lot of what was going on around him. And so when he would get frustrated, it's because I think his brain or his being wanted to tell us, I'm hungry, I'm tired, I'm thirsty, but he couldn't do it. And that would be very frustrating for him as well, when you can't, you know, articul articulate that. So, but that was really the only time when he was not, you know, a very joyous, joyous person. Um, and maybe some of that um confusion or or lack of understanding what was going on was probably helpful because he didn't know the severity of some of the stuff that was going on, too.

SPEAKER_06 8:50

That innocent that innocence, you know. Right, right. No. Absolutely. Right. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 8:55

And the creation of Joey's song, um, tell us a little bit about your vision. What did you have in mind as this started to come together? And and who were the brilliant minds that made it a thing? Yeah. Who actually?

SPEAKER_02 9:09

I had no grand plan, to be honest with you, and I think that's the secret of it, right? If we talk a little bit later about how to cope with things and how to I think having a goal as opposed to a vision is the better way to do it. The goal is to try to raise as much money as you can. What we say in Joey's song is we're here to help the next family, right? Somebody is sitting in a neurologist's office right now with a child on their lap and they're getting a diagnosis they don't understand, that they can't comprehend, and has them wondering what in the heck the future is going to hold. So they need to know that there's some people out there, a community that's fighting for them. That's really what we set out to do. I had um, I did not work in the music business for my adult life, but I did back in college, way back in the 80s. So you can do the math with how old I am. Um, yeah. And um, so I did have some friends. Uh, there's there's one we'll talk about a little bit later. But I believe it or not, despite the long hair and everything, I worked at IBM from almost all of my life. So I had really short hair and wore white shirts and blue suits and power ties, the whole bit. Now I just get to be me. Um but uh it it it was a logical fit. We had to do something, right? We had to do something. If I go back to some of those first interviews that I did when we were trying to raise, all I said is boy, if we could write a $500 check to the Epilepsy Foundation, you know, that would be great. Yeah. Um but what we did was we took, we followed the breadcrumbs as opposed to, as opposed to saying this is the path and it's gonna be this and it's because I think that's when you fail. I mean, having a plan is always good, don't get me wrong. But saying it must be this or it's gonna be this and it's gonna work this way and it's gonna go that way. Um, I don't think that sets you up for success, at least in what we were trying to do, because nobody's done this, what we're doing before. There's no concerts like this. We'll talk a little bit about what makes the actual events unique. We just kind of went with it. And I can tell you a couple stories. It was literally serendipity a couple times of hey, that, you know, uh happy coincidences that let us do that. So it was really out of a need to do something after he after he left us, and a need to to try to help. And that's what led to it. And then Joe led us into it with the singing and dancing. And then I just found out how great the artist community is and how wonderful people that their job is to to tell you emotions and help you feel emotions, which is what artists do, whether they're singers or poets or painters or writers, their whole job is to make you feel something.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

When you when you pull those people in and say, you know, let's feel this together and let's really help people understand that it's pretty amazing what they'll they'll they'll do.

unknown 12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 12:11

I I love that. I those when you have, like you said, Mike, like having a plan is wonderful. I am always the big believer of like leaving some room for what I like to call the magic, like those serendipitous moments that you just mentioned. Um what are what are some of those stories? Uh those initial moments where you're like, huh, this seems to be coming together so smoothly.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:31

Without like an end goal plan.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

So, so the biggest, the biggest literally aha moment. So the person that I was mentioning a little bit earlier that I knew from my old days is a is a gentleman called Butch Fig. And Butch is a Grammy-winning producer. He produced Nirvana's Nevermind and Smashing Pumpkin, Siamese Dream, and Green Day and Sonic Youth and blah, blah, blah. Amongst the Grammys, he won one for producing uh Sir Paul McCartney. So if you're if you're if you're producing Paul, you're you're the toppermost of the poppermost, right? You've already, you've already made it. So Butch and I knew each other back in college, back in the 80s. He went on to become rich and famous. I went on to become none of those things. Um and and when and we reconnected once I started Joey's song through a mutual friend. And so Butch has uh Duke Erickson is the guitarist. He also has his band Garbage. I won't sing any garbage songs for you, but you would know him if I sang them. Um and a couple other have a like a throwaway band. They call themselves the Know It All Boyfriends. And basically it's a chance for them to screw around and have fun. So when Butch and I reconnected, he said, What can I do to help? He said, You can we call it the KIAB, Know It All Boyfriends. Bring the KIAB to Madison and play a show. And he said, Great, let's do that. So, of course, he's busy all the time touring and recording when he's not recording and touring his own band, he's producing other people's records and so on. But we set up a time and they came to back to Madison, which is where Butch and the gang were from. And here's where the magic happened. So um it's about three days before the show, and all of a sudden, my phone is going off the hook. I it's like people, who's coming? Who's playing? Who? And I'm like, I was, I don't know. I would look at the poster. Well, it turns out that Butch had done an interview with one of the local columnists, and having his best P.T. Barnum hat on, he said, you know, you never know who's gonna show up at a know-it-all boyfriend show. So in people's minds, oh, is Dave Grohl going to show up? Is Billy Corgan going to show up? Billy Joe Armstrong gonna show up, you know, list all of is Paul gonna show up, right? He was just trying to sell me tickets. So the show goes on. We're after the show, sitting outside. It was still September in Wisconsin when you could still sit outside and drink a beer, and we were having a beer, and I told him about that because we didn't, you know, once that week starts, you barely talk. Everybody's off running around doing their stuff. Right. And I told him that story. I said, Man, you cost me a couple hours. And we were both tired and maybe had one or two too many beers in us. And we were kind of sitting there staring at the ground for a second. And I think both at the same time we looked at each other and went, that's a really good idea. Is let's have the KIAB serve as a house band and invite other people to come in and sing. So that was not the plan. That was not what we set out to do, but that's how I'm able to have people from Cheap Trick and Guns N' Roses and the Goo-Goo Dolls and the Bangles and the Go-Go's and Eve Six and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, is because I asked them to come to Madison not to put on a full show, but to just come and be part of this ensemble cast. But but that's that was not even even when it was happening wasn't part of the plan because Butch and I were too wrapped up in what we were doing to figure that out. So that's an example of that. And then it led to the other things, which has led to this kind of best world's greatest live jukebox concept that we've got going as well. But that that's the perfect example of never set out to do this, and the fates just kind of, you know, led us there by the nose, going, get over here and do something smart.

SPEAKER_06 16:13

Yeah, you have to do this. Oh my gosh. Absolutely incredible. And you had such a passion for what you were wanting to achieve that I think just things started to manifest because it it'll eventually happen.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Well, I think so too. And and people, whether they're ticket buyers or artists, can feel that. Yeah. And and again, I don't want to humble brag here, but there's there's some genuineness to this. Because Joey Song is 100% volunteer. I don't take a salary. We have no paid staff. For people watching on video, you're looking at Joey Song International Headquarters, which is my basement in Sun Prairie, Wisconsin. Yeah. Um, you know, and the all those artists don't take a penny to come and play, right? So, you know, these people that get six figures to go and sing for 45 minutes, come and do that. So there's a genuineness. Nobody's, the only people that are profiting from this are the people that will benefit from a cure, right? You're not paying anybody's mortgage, you're not paying anybody's salary, you're not doing any of that stuff. And I just think that there's a a karma to that that everybody can feel. And let's be honest, when your phrase is we'd like to stop kids from dying, that that's a that's a relatively powerful argument that people will at least listen. They may not be able to help, but they'll at least listen. And then you layer on top of that, oh, we've got some Hall of Famers and some Grammy winners and everybody. That's a it it snowballs. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_05 17:42

I love that. Mike, as you're sitting there, like just wrapping up that first event and like that's it. That's what this is how we're building it out. Um, did you recognize in that moment what you were creating? Could you see it?

SPEAKER_02 17:56

No. No, um, no. It was, I didn't know whether it was gonna be a one-off, whether we were gonna do more. Um, I didn't know. And again, I think maybe that's why we were okay. It was like, all right, let's see where this goes now. Um, and without turning this into a 10-part TED talk on the music business, um, you know, the music business back in 2010 was very different than it is now. It was just when people stopped paying for music, right? Everybody's, I'm never gonna buy a CD again. I'm just gonna stream it for 0.007 cents. And the dynamics of it all changed. And we literally we could do a 10-part series on that and what it's done to artists. Um, so really, and then COVID hit, the world shut down for a year and a half. Yeah, hey, what do you do? Live events? Oh, yeah, nobody can be in the same room with anybody else for a year and a half.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Um, so it so no, had no idea where it was going. Um, and again, I think I think that's why I I knew we were talking to people, uh, it speaking to people, not talking to people. I knew that our message was getting through, and that was so I knew we had a way to go with it. And I I I I knew I knew enough musicians to know that if I could get to them, um, they'd listen.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Can we shift the focus back to the family during this time as well? Right? You've got the kids and you and your wife, and what is that um space like as you are building something great, um, and at the same time processing the shift and the change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Um, so Julia and Sam would have been 10 and 8 when they're when their brother died.

SPEAKER_06 19:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Um I don't know exactly what they did or didn't. I mean, they knew he was dead, and I you know what death is at that point, but I don't know how much you know what that is.

SPEAKER_05 19:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Um so the first thing I need to say on all this is losing a child is one of the biggest causes of marital breakups that there are, if you look at those statistics. So, and Nori and I are still together. She's upstairs right now with my daughter cooking dinner. Um and so that that's the flag in the ground right there, if if nothing else, that you know, we may and we had to. Well, I could, yeah, I could go down a path here. I'll go down it real quick and then I'll when you go through building your family through adoption, like we did, you there's some extra steps in that that people that do it biologically don't go through. And there's some extra choices you make and extra commitments you make. Um and so I think knowing Nori, my wife's name is Nori, knowing Nori and I, even if we despised each other, we probably would have stayed together for the kids just because of look at all they've gone they've gone through, right? Um, my kids were all from Guatemala. Fortunately, their mom is Puerto Rican, so she, but they don't look like me at all. Yeah. So I one quick story. When they were younger and I took them, we had to go to the drugstore or something, and we were standing in the checkout. The lady at the drugstore looked up and said, Are you running errands with grandpa today? So anyway, um, thank you. I thank you. Yeah. But but but but anyway, anyway, the um so Nori and I are two very different people, which is that whole, you know, opposites attract kind of stuff. I'm a I'm a German from Wisconsin who's people get to us and we've all put our head down and we will start to charity. Right. Yeah. My wife is a Latina and she's very emotional and wears her emotions on her sleeve. And it's it's and that's good too. There's no right, there's no owner's manual on this. There's no, as long as you're not doing yourself or anybody else harm, there's no right or wrong way to process grief and come through the other end. And having those two kids at that age, we both threw ourselves into Making sure that they and they're both wonderful human beings. My daughter is getting her master's degree in kinesiology and is going to be a physical therapist. And my son graduated with a music degree from Beloit and is trying to figure out how he's going to make a living doing that. That's another 10-part TED talk. But he's got a very supportive set of parents. So but we knew that what was most important was those two. And when you have a common goal like that, it kept the family, you know, it was making sure they made it out of the house in the morning to school. I was fortunate in my time with IBM, I worked from home. So I was able to be home when they came home. You know, back before they think you're you're silly and stupid, right? Which happens in the teenage years. But, you know, every day they'd come home, they'd tell me about their day, what happened on the playground, what art project did you do, you know, all of those things. That all helped. You ask about the home life. That all helped because while Nori and I were individually dealing with it in very different ways, that we had that center point that was the most important thing 20fold over anything else we did is making sure that those two um had all the advantages they could have.

SPEAKER_06 23:15

Yeah. You created that certainty in a very uncertain time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

In in what would be uncertain under any circumstances, even more so.

SPEAKER_06 23:25

Yeah. Right. Beautiful. Absolutely. Beautiful. How involved are they in Joey's song?

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah. My wife doesn't have much involvement. One of the things one of the things besides giving the money to epilepsy research, we also take a small portion every year. There's a school down in Guatemala, which again is where my kids are from and Joe is from for special needs kids. And every year they have a capital project or two. So we make sure some of that money goes down there. And she helps me with that. My son performs with all these amazing rock and roll Hall of Famers and Grammy winners. Yes, he's I keep reminding him he's gonna have to go back to playing coffee houses where the bus boys are throwing plates into the you know thing that it um but it it's it's pretty much my yeah thing. Um, because I'm retired and I have the time and I have the passion. And and they can they're as involved as they want to be, but yeah, they've got their stuff, right? Julia's work, she's in her one more year to go in her master's degree, and Sam's got his stuff, but they're they're they ask me about it all the time, and and I don't force them into it. If they wanted to do more, believe me, I got plenty they can do.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

So yeah, okay absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 24:35

I love that. Well, and you mentioned that the entire team that puts the event on, it it all volunteers that come together, um, tell us about building this, the the the team, because it didn't start out the size that it is now, uh, with the impact that it has now.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Yeah. So honestly, it come it came from every year after the show doing the okay, what could we have done better? Okay. And then you find out and then you ask people, oh, we need somebody to manage this. And you know, there's enough the the good thing about being in your 60s, actually, to be really honest with you, today is my birthday. I turned 65 today.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

So happy birthday!

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yeah, um, when you have a group of friends in their 60s, people have a lot more free time than they did when they're in their 40s, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Um, and so it was really a matter of asking people, I need somebody to help me. And I know who would could do what, right? I I, you know, almost all the volunteers are friends, you know, friends or acquaintances kind of stuff. And I got one neighbor who I knew who handles all of the transportation, getting the arguments from the airport to the hotel and back because I know that's his kind of stuff. I got another neighbor that helps with the merchandise because I know he likes. So you you you match people with their personalities. And then again, you know, they all went through Joe's illness and everything with us. So they're all part of it too. And people are good, are good if you give them a chance to be.

SPEAKER_06 26:06

You know, I love it.

SPEAKER_05 26:08

I love that you have an entire community that's willing to raise their hand to say, yes, I I will volunteer my time, talent, treasure, what have you, and and pour into this cause.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

It's it's funny, it's funny. We do a video every year of the artists and we do interviews with them. And one of the first times we started having artists of larger note, let's say, come and we were doing interviews. One of them said specifically that. She said, This is crazy. The guy doing this is Mike's neighbor, and the guy doing that is who he went to college with. And I said, That's just Wisconsin. That has nothing to do with it.

SPEAKER_06 26:41

Nobody knows everybody.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

That's just Wisconsin. You know, they talk about Wisconsin nice. Well, that's just it. That's you know, it you know, she she happens to be from Boston, and not that people from Boston aren't great, but maybe it's not quite an East Coast thing like it is in the Midwest. But yeah, but there's actually one of our year-end videos. Her name is Gail Greenwood, and she's a bass player in in Belly and L7 and a couple other famous bands. And that she says that she goes, it's just crazy, Mike's. So there everybody raises their hand and what can I do? And it it we seem to pull it together.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

It speaks volumes, Mike. It really does.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite Resilience Podcast. We hope you had some aha moments and learned a few new real life ideas to fuel the flames of passion. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform, like or download your favorite episodes, and of course, share with your friends and family. We look forward to seeing you again next time on Reignite Resilience.