The Retained Search Show
This is the show for ambitious recruiters who want to win and deliver retained searches with confidence. Expect real stories, proven strategies, and insights you can actually use.
The Retained Search Show
From 100 Doors to 6-Figure Billings: Jeron van den Elshout’s Advice for Building a Global Recruitment Empire
What do 100 door-knocks in a day and record-breaking recruitment billings have in common? Everything according to Jeron van den Elshout.
In this high-impact episode, Jeron shares how he went from nearly getting fired in his first sales job to founding a global recruitment business operating across the US, Middle East, and Europe.
You’ll hear how persistence turned rejection into revenue, and how a single conversation changed everything, catapulting him from frustrated jobseeker to top biller. Jeron breaks down the key differences between contingent, exclusive, and retained models, and makes a compelling case for why retained isn't just preferable, it's essential for hard-to-fill roles.
We cover:
- Reactive vs. proactive recruitment
- Why "exclusivity" can be misleading when internal talent teams are still in the mix
- Why the retainer model is optimal and what makes it hard to implement
- How Jeron built a personal brand of 40,000+ LinkedIn followers by sharing tips and staying authentic
- The creation of KOLY, a “recruitment incubator” helping consultants eventually launch their own agencies
This episode is packed with hard-earned lessons and practical insights from someone who’s done the work and lived the journey. Jeron brings the experience. Don’t miss it.
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Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. So welcome everybody to today's episode of the Retain Search show. George, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm alright. I'm alright. I've had a very good weekend and I fly to Majorca on holiday later today, yay. Everything is good in the world at the moment.
Speaker 1:Are you at the airport at the moment?
Speaker 2:No, I'm not. I was meant to be, but I managed to move a couple of calls around which meant I didn't have to get the airport eight hours before my flight oh gosh, which Becca and my two-year-old little girl are very happy about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially oh Manchester. Oh, is it Liverpool?
Speaker 2:Liverpool, liverpool.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's only a little airport, isn't it Not a lot to um?
Speaker 3:I am delighted to share with you all um our guest today. Um, jaron vanders, how do I pronounce your surname? Uh, yeah, it's unusual. Jaron funding also. Uh, in holland they pronounce it a little bit differently because I was raised in south africa. We kind of it's a bit of a twist, but funding also jaron, funding also jaron Jay, call me whatever you want.
Speaker 1:Jaron, cool, I can do that, that sounds manageable.
Speaker 2:And, jaron, I have to ask then how are you feeling, as I'm assuming an Arsenal fan based on the shirts in?
Speaker 3:the background. You know what? Another season, another second. What can you do? I'm a Liverpool fan.
Speaker 2:I was at the game at the weekend. I was at the parade yesterday. Fantastic, yeah, we have a lot of mates that will always walk alone.
Speaker 3:I said in the beginning of the season Liverpool, chelsea, arsenal I actually didn't care who won.
Speaker 2:As long as it wasn't man City 100%.
Speaker 3:That's all that mattered. It's a bit bittersweet that we didn't get it. You know we've been twice now on the trot, but Liverpool deserve it. They played an exceptional season. So you know, kudos to the team.
Speaker 2:If only all football fans were as gracious in defeat as you, Gerard.
Speaker 3:Every single person that has ever met me and I comment on a lot of posts online say I'm probably the most gracious Arsenal supporter. For some reason, arsenal supporters are bitter in general, I'm not. I've been supporting since I was eight and will continue to support.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good, I'm glad.
Speaker 3:I don't have anything to add, nothing zero.
Speaker 1:So what I am interested in, though, is finding out a bit more about you and what you're up to and how you're seeing things. So we'll get into that as the conversation progresses. Jaron, we'd be delighted if you could share with us a little bit about you, your business, where you are and what you do.
Speaker 3:Cool, I'm going to give you the intro that I give to candidates, clients, consultants. It's the same thing. It's obviously been edited over the years because obviously I've changed jobs, but it's going to be a wrap, so prepare yourself.
Speaker 1:I like it. I'm not going to actually rap. I'm tone deaf.
Speaker 3:I was getting ready to beatbox, then Harry Mack on the mic. No, so look, I'm South African, as you can gather by the accent. If you haven't heard this accent, do blame Leonardo DiCaprio for a bad interpretation of Blood Diamond.
Speaker 3:But yeah, South African accent through and through Born and raised that side bit of a mixed dad's Dutch, hence my surname Fandenelso. Mom is South African but they met at a very young age, met over there, had me and my sisters. I studied engineering not by choice, my dad forced me. But you know I got into engineering and I really enjoyed it. I was there for like two years doing I studied industrial engineering and I loved the job. But I absolutely hated my boss and I'm going to link this back to recruitment and linkedin because you see it all over linkedin it's like the culture's toxic. That's why I left the company. Mine was so bad. I left the industry so I shifted out of engineering and I actually moved to uk.
Speaker 3:I had friends living in london. I had one mate that decided to coerce me to come join him in sales. I've never done sales in my life. He was like no, it's a great company, you can make lots of money. I went and I joined, only soon to realize that misery loves company and he was a door knocker. So he wanted me to come suffer in silence with him, do door-to-door sales. So I got into it that way. He lasted three months. I lasted two and a half years, so something stuck. It was really hard. Anyone that you know in the UK that does door-to-door sales it's tough.
Speaker 1:What were you selling?
Speaker 3:Utilities gas and electric. So I wasn't a white gold guy, I wasn't doing, uh, double glazing, as some of my other friends have done, but no, I was doing utility. So you go up against british gas, power, gen and power, essentially knocking people's doors and telling them that they can save money and then taking the details yeah, on the spot, credit card details and walk away.
Speaker 3:It's in my mind. It's so crazy to know that I actually made sales doing that. But anyhow, I was the worst doorknob you've ever met, just by the way. For the first two months I was literally on the end of my manager saying you're going to get put on the plane and be deported, like we can't, we can't keep you anymore, made zero sales.
Speaker 3:And then one thing I like to say it stuck was he pulled me aside and actually kind of this this is also linked to recruitment but he kind of tore apart my desk, if you want to call it that. He like sat me down and said let's just understand what you're doing. You're supposed to do 100 knocks a day, so 100 dials, but knocking on doors how many are you actually doing? And I looked down at my sheet and I said look, I'll be honest with you, I'll get to about 20 no's. And I looked down at my sheet and I said look, I'll be honest with you, I'll get to about 20 no's. And I just stopped. You know I would go to a park, I'd sit there and have a fag, I would eat a Mars bar and just wait for the day to end and then get picked up from patch and go home. And he said to me and this is the thing that stuck he said you're doing a disservice because if you actually had to just complete 100 locks out of this other 80, there might have been some yeses, right, if you just were resilient enough to go through it and get more no's, you'd get a yes. He gave me one more chance and he said listen, go out and all I want you to do is knock on 100 doors. I don't care if you make any sales, just knock on 100 doors, and if you do that, you can keep your job. So I was that you can keep your job.
Speaker 3:So I was young, 20 year olds, living in london, you know, didn't have anything else. We're living in company accommodation. I was going to be kicked back onto a plane back home. I'm going to go knock on 100 doors. And what transpired was I went out and I knocked 100 doors, not thinking about the outcome at the end, looked down at my piece of paper and I made 10 sales, which was the most in the office for the day. So when I went back to the office, obviously being young, knowing that I was about to get fired. Now I've just done 10 sales.
Speaker 3:I walk into the office my chest puffed out, you know oh, I'm the man and went and write my my numbers on the board and I noticed I was the top one for the day. And um walked into his office afterwards and he was just sitting there grinning because he knew what was going to happen. And I said to wayne I was like I did 10 sales. He said yeah, so you can't actually do this, you're just giving up too early. So what I want you to do is go out and do that again, day in, day out. That's what I did. Two and a half years, um, I was the top biller for them. After six months I became a team leader. 23 years of age was my first sales leadership opportunity. I led a team of 14 reps.
Speaker 1:Um all of them are older than me so from 25 to the age of 40.
Speaker 3:So it was a big step and I really he's actually one of my I would say mentors, because he gave me my first shot.
Speaker 3:Yeah amazing yeah, I really, really appreciate that. So I'll fast forward my uk experience. I was there for six years. All of it was outbound calling. I moved. I moved back to South Africa where I thought, being a young 26-year-old, I'm going to now take my international experience in sales and bring it to a third-world country, I'm going to make millions and I'm going to retire at the age of 30. Didn't happen.
Speaker 3:Ended up struggling to find work. Ended up going through recruitment agencies and getting quite livid with some agencies in south africa purely because they were sending me the wrong jds. They were sending me to the wrong positions. You know, as a, as a candidate, I've been on that side of the seat. It was so frustrating, like is no one listening to me? Are they not listening to what I actually want?
Speaker 3:It got to the point where one of the agencies actually got asked to come sit with them face to face because we're in the same city, met them in the office and kind of voiced my frustrations to the recruiter, who I didn't realize was one of the directors, and she turned around and she said listen, you know, if you think it's so broken, why don't you come join us and fix it, me being once again 26 and a little bit cocky. I was like, ok, challenge accepted, I will come and be a recruiter. Not knowing I'd be doing this for the rest of my career. I stepped in and I was like I'll do this for a year. What better way to find a job? To join an agency? Jobs come in, I'll just apply to them directly, right, some people do that. Within six months, I broke the company record in terms of billables. I got my first big comp check, and I think that's what happens with most recruiters is, when you get that first big comp check, you're like okay.
Speaker 2:Golden handcuffs. You can't get out. Yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you know, ironically there was a Harley-Davidson shop below my office and I used to hear those bikes and I was a big Harley fan. So with my first comp check I bought a Harley cash, which was amazing. So I fulfilled the dream bucket list and I've been in it ever since man. So the first company was a corporate. You know I do. I do hold the company dear to my heart because they do exceptional training in South Africa.
Speaker 1:So they're equivalent to a manpower or a haze?
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're the big one in South Africa. They're just national right, they're not really global. So I was there for just under four years from consultant, senior consultant, junior manager to manager, if you want to call it that Everyone has different titles in different companies ran a small team, did exceptionally well. Then it got randomly headhunted by a startup. I don't really know the true story, but the story goes that the md team it was a very small company started hitting on a few doors offline. So they kept saying we're only working with one person. So he was like well, if I can't get into these companies, let's try and find this one person and bring him over. And, uh, so my name, my name got passed around. Um, I got put in front of them. They wowed me with you know what they're trying to achieve?
Speaker 3:it was a scam I want to say scaffy I don't know if that's the right word, but it was like a small dingy office that had literally checkered floors, like I'm talking about grim de la grim, and like a little bar in the corner, proper startup. But like yeah, we, we vibey, we cool, which they were and I went to go join them, um, just to see what could happen really. And they were an engineering firm, but they were looking to get into technology and I'd never done technology. But the one thing that I was strong at was business development. Because of our cold calling I think that's generally the pool with most agencies these days. I still see it 360 consultant is way more attractive than a 180 consultant. Someone can kind of get clients in, run a desk, self-sustained, right. So I I joined them.
Speaker 3:Uh, as a manager came in, which was always tough. I will say this going into a new company as a manager, not a consultant, and earning your stripes, it kind of puts spotlight on you that I probably shit. Who's this guy? What's he going to do? Is he that good? Is he just a talker? So, you know, I stepped in as a billing manager, if you want to call it that, and automatically I knew that I need to earn their trust. So I'm very proactive with regards to marketing candidates. I actually call call-in candidates.
Speaker 3:So, just to flip the script, the reason I did so well in the previous company, a lot of the agencies I've ever been with if not all of them, are very reactive. You know they will send messages to clients or ask clients can you give me a job? Do you have a job? Is there anything I can work? Fine, nothing wrong with that, but it's reactive. It's the same as sending an email to a candidate on LinkedIn and waiting for their response. Proactive in the same light is sending them an email, sending them a WhatsApp, sending them an email, phoning them, trying to get the candidate on the line so you can move forward.
Speaker 3:I flipped the script in terms of reactive recruitment was waiting for a job. Instead, I took the candidate to market. Now I know this is not rocket science. People do this but in South Africa it wasn't quite unheard of back then. So I would just do what I call the 300 club. I would phone 300 candidates, 300 clients, break it down. What is the need? At that point? It was technologists. Find a whole bunch of technologists. Look back at my notes.
Speaker 3:These were the five companies that said they were kind of in the market for this type of skill and I take my best two technologists and pitch them into the companies, but without sending a cv. I book an interview and that was the hard part. So my first two weeks of this company I stood up. It was like proper wolf on wall street kick the chairs out, just bang the phone and cold call my candidates. And I think in the one day I booked one person like six interviews and I didn't know what I was doing. I was just banging the phone and by the end, when I put on the phone I heard the whole office was dead quiet. I turned around and everyone was just staring at me like I was an alien. What the hell was this guy doing? And that's how you know. I started that company showing them that this is the way to really generate good revenue quicker than waiting for jobs and sending five candidates being up against you know three other contingent agencies. I was with them for six years in total. We grew the company quite rapidly.
Speaker 3:I started off as like leading up Africa, then Mia. Then I got promoted to director of EMEA, so I ran a larger team. I specialize in cybersecurity. That's kind of the niche that I went into because I wanted to specialize and I think you know at that point it was data and cyber was everyone was talking about in 2015. So I jumped into that bandwagon. We ended up selling that company. You might know of them, but we kind of did a private equity deal. We bought two other agencies, we looped it all together, we called it Techstream Global and then we sold it off to a company called XSEED in the UK. So I accepted that business.
Speaker 3:I moved over to Dubai. I got headhunted by a startup. I heard about that story. They said we want to replicate it. Fine, I joined them as the vp ran a small team. Uh, did pretty well in all honesty. Business was good, culture was a bit I'm not going to say too much because you might be airing this podcast to everyone so, uh, yeah, I actually did that business.
Speaker 3:I got headhunted by haze and then I ran the middle east office for about a year and a half. Um, and then, unfortunately, I got let go. Not shy to talk about that, you know it was a bit odd, but global cost cutting and big organizations it happens. I was, unfortunately, one of the guys got let go, even though we 150% got quota. So with a little bit of a chip on the shoulder, mind you, because I exited that business going what just happened. Like we're doing so well and I just got let go, I decided two things either I go to another agency and help them grow, or stop my own thing and lead me to Coley. So we started Coley a year and a half ago.
Speaker 3:Coley the name. Lots of people ask what the hell? Where did you get that from? It's actually my kids initials. I've got two beautiful kids Keanu Oslo, lila Eve. The initials started as me me and alone.
Speaker 3:I wasn't planning to actually start and grow a recruitment agency. I was more thinking work-life balance. I could stay at home. I am the sole breadwinner, my wife is a stay-at-home mom. Let me just do this. Have flexible time, get some time back with our kids. It could be amazing because, trust me, you lose a lot when you work at a corporate and you're doing 14 hour days. Uh. So that's how we started and after, after three months, it was just like holy crap, we need more people. The amounts of jobs we were getting in the clientele that were just really digging the style of the way we work, so I started hiring people and now we have five consultants. We've got entities in South Africa, dubai and Netherlands and we operate mostly in the US market and Middle East markets. All around technology, starting off with cyber security. We've always evolved doing data, ai and software, both on technical and commercial. We also do the sales side of it, the seats. What else can I tell you Besides my big answers?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we don't need to talk about football. Um the, tell us a bit about your personal brand, jaron. You've got a really strong, but you've got what?
Speaker 3:40 odd thousand followers yeah, I'm surprised by that myself. Uh, yeah, how do you?
Speaker 1:do that? How do you do it? What's the secret?
Speaker 3:do you know what everyone's asked me and I've tried to help as many people as possible gain. I don't do any promotions, I don't pay for marketing, zero spend, right, and it was like people like how and I think it's purely organic. A few reasons I think the posts that I make on how can I say a lot of the posts are generally about recruitment positive, you know, posts about recruitment and there's some negative posts about recruitment because I still don't like recruiters and people always go. That makes no sense. You're a recruiter but I like to share a lot of tips and tricks. I've coached and mentored tips and tricks I've coached and mentored. There must be over 150 plus consultants so and I was the lnd leader at haze, for goodness sake, so they obviously trusted me to do all their training.
Speaker 3:So I like to share tips and tricks to help others and I think you know, I think most recruiters should be doing this, especially for recruitment leaders is help your fellow community to better yourself, because it's going to better the industry and I have to say it, recruitment is not a nice word, like a dirty word in the industry. When you find people like, hi, I'm a recruiter, they're like, ah, you know wolf and sheep's clothing. You know, we know exactly what you want. You just want a job. You don't want to talk, you want a job. So I kind of make a lot of posts about how to better yourself as a recruiter, obviously sharing tips on marketing candidates. I do coaching and training every second week. There's a lot of recruiters that join that. It's free training, by the way. I'm going to try and monetize it at some point.
Speaker 1:But you know, I like sharing knowledge.
Speaker 3:I like coaching. I like training. I also like to have a laugh. I've got a sense of humor, I think, anyhow a good, anyhow good sense of humor. So I do share a lot of funny things around recruitment and anything that I see. Maybe other people posting up that tongue-in-cheek do a post similar to this, but with a little spin that normally goes viral just because they're like how we saw the other post. You know what you're doing there, jerry touch nose, but it's purely organic. I think we take ourselves way too seriously in this market. So having a little bit of fun posting content that other people relate to and then also posting about cyber security or the niche that you're in, it just gains. You build a community around you that supports you and follows you.
Speaker 1:That's what I did very good and, yeah, I love that you're sharing tips and value. I find that that's massively um helpful when you're that. That's massively helpful when you're building a following as well and nurturing. You know those, that audience talking about the market, what do you see? What are you seeing at the moment in in the market activity? Wise?
Speaker 3:peaks and troughs, as always, you know. So we, we founded this little. We call it the purple squirrel alliance horrible name, but it's like a whole bunch of founders people that actually have worked with me or worked for me. Uh, everyone's got their own agencies and there's about six founders that we kind of also jump online and talk about what's happening, and it's weird because we'll have one. One of the agencies say to me the market is down, the market is so bad you're not getting any traction. Another person's like it's booming. So I really believe it changes from different perspectives, but also different regions. So if I just say from my side, europe right now it's a shit show, okay, I'll say that right now, europe is a shit show. If anyone disagrees with me, please show me what you're doing, because, man, it's a struggle.
Speaker 3:Middle east is booming because, okay, so, by the way, we do global recruitment. Um, our biggest markets are us and middle east. However, because I'm based in europe, now I'm trying to open a few more doors, got a few clients, nothing to brag home about. We're also doing some stuff in apac, which seems to be a little bit better, but I think the tricky part when you're entering a new region. If you don't have a track record or a lot of use case studies to that's what I normally do is I share that and say this is what we've done. That normally bodes well. You don't have that. It's always tricky to enter unless you drop your pants and go to the center of recruitment, and we don't want to do that. So for me, at the moment, middle east is booming. Uh, you know, now trump going down, then shoving in the 600 million investment. Uh, there's quite a few big companies to follow. G42 is one of them, definitely for everyone to look at. But middle east is booming. I haven't seen it waver at all. The fees are starting to trickle because there's so many uk recruiters moving out to the middle east and a lot of them are just trying to sign up clients just for the sake of having clients. So what used to be 15% to 20% has dropped to 12% to 15%. Not ideal, it is what it is. Usa is still being big.
Speaker 3:I think I haven't really had and I'm going to be honest, I haven't really had any moment in my career where I went. The market is terrible. The only thing that I've done is I've gone. I'm phoning the wrong people. That's it, because most people turn around and say, oh, and I just mentioned, by the way, that Europe is bad However, I haven't phoned the right people, I haven't phoned enough people. So if you're phoning a company and you're phoning one person or two people, and that's your contact list for that company and you're like, oh, they don't want to work with us, you phone two people. If there's a thousand people in that company, if you had to map out every single hiring manager, every single person that you could physically talk to that runs their own PNL, I can guarantee you speak to 20 people. One of them is going to have an issue with a recruitment agency or the internal talent team and give you a sniff, but it's once again going back to my door knocking. Don't give up, just carry on, just carry on.
Speaker 3:There's a theme though there as well we are.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you episode with us was launched yet. By the time this one comes out it probably will have been. And he said something similar at the end to us last week. He said every market, every geography, there's always someone killing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:And the other thing I was coaching this morning actually a team and there's a guy well, two guys in that team doing really well and one still working on it and the guy that's doing particularly well. I said a similar thing to you. You know, it's not just what you're doing, it's how often and how consistent you are in in doing those things. That's what makes the difference between you know it working and not working. Um, and he turned his laptop screen around and he had a screensaver said um the. You know, the secret is to do enough volume that it becomes impossible not to be successful alex amosie is it.
Speaker 1:Is that who he?
Speaker 1:says yeah, you do that much volume that it becomes like stupidly irrational to think that you won't win yeah, and and you know, for all we say, and we're noticing that it's the high value uh and conversations that are creating the most revenue at the moment, like this top of funnel, high volume, low value outreach. You know automated AI outreach and you know AI generated outreach. It isn't producing the kind of um uh response rate as it used to, but the higher value, more personal phone calls, actually by a human being, um handwritten. You know messages that relate to that person, that company that is producing for all. We say that you still need to do enough of those things to to make sure it's unavoidable to be successful. So it's really good and very interesting to hear what, out of interest, joanne, is your view on retained working.
Speaker 3:So I think this is how we ended up getting to this point of having a podcast, because I commented, or someone commented, my name, because I've had many challenges with the people on retained. Look, I think with any recruitment, if and with any recruiter that starts out, you should be trained on this from the get-go, and if you're not getting trained, then something's failing internally in your agency. First prize is retained for any agency. You know, it's skin in the game, as we call it, as some people say, shared risk uh, there's different terminologies, but with regards to a retainer, someone's obviously paid you a commitment fee and I know let's not say commitment fee, because that's this is where I'm going to bring it up. To the contingent side, um, they paid you a fee and it's a different model from contingent because you generally would give a long list, a short list, and get paid for doing work, even if they don't hire someone. But they've got this awesome database they can use at any point, at any time. That's for me, a retainer model, right, you? And please, if you disagree, you're more than welcome to teach me then you've got the exclusive. So first prize retained then, because that's guaranteed money and skin in the game and you're working against yourself. And time is money, right.
Speaker 3:So second, exclusivity, and I struggle with this one because I work for big organizations, I work for startups and everyone goes. I know what exclusivity is. And I say what is exclusivity? It's when the client says to me I'm going to have the role for two weeks, a timeframe that I have to deliver profiles, and at the end of that then they're allowed to approach other agencies. I say, okay, fine, half right. But let me ask you a question Are they allowed to work the role themselves? Internal talent team oh, yeah, yeah, of course I said whoa, hang on, that's not exclusive. So you know, there's so much of this happening and a lot of companies, unfortunately, a lot of junior recruiters take on exclusive work and they drop their pants and they go. We normally charge 20,25%, but for exclusive we'll do 17%, and they're like oh, that sounds great, sign those terms. Meanwhile, what they don't realize, they're actually working against the internal talent team. Now, if they actually ask the questions because it's always about asking questions and qualifying they would soon realize if they had to ask to the client what does exclusivity mean for you? And they say, well, you get the role, you're the only agent working it, but our team of 10 talent acquisition people are working it. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Then you might as well be working contingent against other people, because it's any roll of a dice if it's going to land on a six.
Speaker 3:So for me, pure exclusivity is actually written agreement. I send them a piece of paper that states you give it to us for two weeks. During those two weeks we'll supply candidates. You're not allowed to work it. No one else is allowed to work. You get any internal referrals from people in your organization. You're not allowed to consider anyone besides from coley. Only at the end of two weeks you can consider, once you've rejected every single one of our candidates. So after the two weeks, if people still in the pipeline from us, you still can't consider anyone. You have to reject our people. In other words, your pipeline has to be decimated before you can consider going outside.
Speaker 3:Now it's quite a hard pitch, but when you explain why you do it and the outcomes because you have a fully 100 dedicated recruiter just focusing on yours it's like. It's like retained search, without the extra bells and whistles, but you have someone that's dedicated to facing this role they normally buy into it. I think a lot of the, the, the pushback from clients is well, hang on. What's the difference between contingent because surely you should be working 100 on our roles too. And I turn around and say are you, are you mad? If this is high risk, high reward, no cure, no pay for contingent, which is what most agencies are doing.
Speaker 3:80 of agency, if not most of them all, have this division in their contingent. You know, the problem with that is you don't know who else they're working with. So a consultant says they're going to dedicate their time to you, but they've got five other roles on their desk. Naturally, business-wise, the they're going to dedicate their time to you, but they've got five other roles on their desk. Naturally, business-wise, the consultant's going to pick the one that's valued the most. Who's got the highest percentage? Which one? Have the clients been paying the most or got the most revenue coming through? Because you were closest to the money. So anyways, going back to exclusivity, you need to get that in writing and be very clear that it's exclusive to you and it's actually guaranteed piece of business if you can live on it. And then, obviously, thirdly, contingent, which we do we're not happy to do, but we don't are you enjoying this so far?
Speaker 1:don't miss a single episode. Hit the subscribe button right now so you can be part of the conversation that's shaping the future of recruitment. So we dive really deep into the strategies, the stories and the truth about retained search. So if you want to hear more about it or you know someone else that needs to hear this, then share it with them. Right, let's get back to the good stuff.
Speaker 3:I hope I've answered the question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I really like it. I think my challenge with exclusive is always that it doesn't actually stop the client from deciding that they don't want to hire any of the candidates, or deciding actually they're not going to go ahead and carry on with the search or actually we're gonna. We're not going to hire that type of person anymore. We're actually going to hire this type of person, or thanks very much for your help, but we're going to put a pin in this for now. And I've yeah, it happens. And what's what's pissed me off most about that?
Speaker 1:Because for me as a you know, growing up as a pure contingent recruiter, exclusivity was the holy grail really before I learned how to transition to retained. But I got so sick of prioritizing that because it was the holy grail. Oh, my God, it's exclusive. They're giving me exclusivity. I'm going to put all my time and all my energy on that one, because that's the one that is exclusive. And then they say actually, I'm really sorry, thanks very much. I really appreciate you done a great job. It's nothing that you've done. So it's almost worse for me than contingent because it's even. You know, I'll. I'll stop working on other things in order to prioritize that, and I've still got no commitment.
Speaker 1:I've still got no actual, you know financial commitment. And my risk is even higher really, because they can just drop me, you know, like a ton of bricks. So I and it is still contingent, the fee is only paid 100.
Speaker 3:You know it's dependent full the full part of the fee is dependent upon making the placement.
Speaker 1:So I always sort of try and help people realize that it's either retained or it's contingent, like exclusive is still contingent really. So just be careful when you're putting. You know, I always say to be careful you're putting all your time into something because, um, it can be a bit of a devil in disguise it's a fan, it's a fancy uh, contingent model.
Speaker 3:It's like I don't know. I was going to use a stupid analogy. I use a lot of analogies. A lot of people say, dude, what are you on about? But, like you know, it's a car with nos. The same thing.
Speaker 2:It's got a little bit of turbo and it can kind of mislead you, especially if you have no no one cares you know, jaron, sometimes I think as well, though, like if I think about how you articulated exclusive in terms of how you position it with the client, I don't think the next step to retain is that big no, it's not. No, it isn't like in terms of winning the business. Like a financial commitment, exclusive, like people can do it.
Speaker 3:I just don't think they realize they can yeah, yeah yeah, people get scared by retained yeah, and they think it's a big step, but it isn't really, if you go and say retain, like right now and I've coached a lot of recruiters, including my own, by the way you're going to probably ask me at some point have we signed? We actually just signed a retainer yay, that was very that was very great literally just before you like send me and say let's do a podcast about this. I'm like I'm going out there to retain us, so I know I've got my fate, jaron.
Speaker 2:This is what happens. People just speak to us and they just start winning yeah, it's a good selling point you know, I think it's, you're 100 right, jordan?
Speaker 3:I think once you get to the the part of saying and this is I'm going to use analogy, right. So the part of saying, and this is I'm going to use analogy, right. So the part of doing exclusive and actually saying to someone you give it to us two weeks, and if we do end up placing it, the tricky part is to go from that model to retain, because they've just seen you do that and they're like we didn't have to pay anything upfront and you're doing that.
Speaker 3:So the hardest part for me is, once you get them buying to that, how do you move them to retain After a while, as most people in recruitment say, oh, you need to be, you know, working with a client for two years, three years, four years of building trust, then you can move to retain because now they trust you, they believe in you, they're willing to do that and I'm like, actually it's really hard to do it at that point because they're so used to a certain model. It's like people are allergic to change. We all know that right. So no one likes change. The way I do the retained and you're gonna absolutely hate me for this because the worst the worst pitch ever.
Speaker 3:However, I say to clients that think about when you order things online amazon, timu, noon, I don't know what a delivery food doesn't matter any service or any product that arrives to you. You pay up front. We don't even question it anymore. No one, unless you use those. Pay by now, pay later apps like tomorrow, and I don't know what other ones they are around, but you tab tabby, I don't know. You see them on the thing. It says you're paying three months. Yeah, yeah, all of these things are we also not immune? But we also used to it and we don't even see it that we are paying for things before it gets to us. And guess what? We know, if it doesn't get to us, we get a refund or some sort of rebate. I don't know the credit notes, I'm just using terminologies now, kind of looking up to recruitment.
Speaker 3:So when I say to clients you know, have you ever considered a retained model? The main reasons being it's a little bit different than what your outcomes, but also there's way more value in it than the contingent and also you might be able to be able to get a discount. Now, that's always not the nicest thing to say because some people would go. Why are you offering a discount up front, but from the contingent, which is high risk, high reward we sometimes say retained you can maybe save one or two percent. I don't know, depending on what we want to pitch, but I kind of use the buying off an app, paying for it same thing with services. This is going to sound terrible, but recruitment our product is human beings okay, so all I'm saying is you're paying for it up front and then we're going to deliver the product, generally in 20 to 30 days, which is maybe how long it takes for something to be delivered to you, and if it isn't, we'll look for a rebate.
Speaker 3:Now, as we know, depending on the model of retained search, maybe 30% upfront is not refundable, right, and then, depending on how you cut it up, you're not going to obviously do the whole work and then turn around and give them all their cash back. So it is a little bit of a different pitch, but I like to use that analogy because I think it opens their eyes to going wait a minute, it's not unheard of, but for some companies that have never done retained, it scares the crap out of them because they're like how do I actually do this. How do I pay you without you? Do you know? I haven't got the thing. I don't know how to sign it off, so then you just have to walk through it. The easiest way is to do a PO purchase order right, that's probably the simplest, quickest way to get something signed up.
Speaker 2:I think I agree with your point before though, jaron, if you think about you know, whatever it is a barber, whatever like if they're happy with the service that they're being provided, if they're working contingently and they're getting what they want when they need it, they enjoy it, they're probably never going to retain you, no matter what the commercials look like, because they don't need to right, it's not broken. Yeah, exactly, but what I found is, as we move into markets where it is challenging to get high-caliber talent, because competition is more fierce than it ever has been and they're risk-averse at times where the economy is all over the place and actually is it the right time to move at the moment that means that we need to do more as recruiters and on a contingent basis. It's difficult to just justify doing it as a recruiter so the results that customers see are diminishing.
Speaker 2:They're not always getting what they want when they need it, and that's why, for me, on a retained basis, if anything, I'd make it more expensive, more expensive, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm with you, george. I think I historically I've always you know, when I was first kind of growing in this direction saw retained as a kind of you know, premium or better kind of way and sold it more on that basis. Either that or, you know, you give me some money up front and I'll give you a discount, and those were the kind of two default ways. And, and for those people that we work with that have started doing bits of retained, they're generally doing one of those two things and it can work well.
Speaker 1:Initially. There's a few kind of I've ran into a few problems where I was getting some money up front, maybe making it a bit cheaper, but also then having some projects which went on and on and then ended up it wasn't actually profitable and I'd rather have not had the retainer. Actually, I kind of it was a bit of a curse in the end, um, and certainly shouldn't have been cheaper than contingent, but actually jordan makes a valid point. What I've subsequently realized was that the reason that people were buying it wasn't because I was making it cheaper.
Speaker 1:It was because I was offering to solve a problem that the contingent model wasn't solving yeah so for all those clients that were entertaining the conversation on a retained basis, it was mainly because they were seeking a solution, not a couple of percent off a discount.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you're solving a problem. You're adding value to the edits um so.
Speaker 1:So I became, I sort of changed my business development tactics and started going after the worst and the most difficult stuff and making it clear that the contingent model wasn't solving it. And lo and behold, explaining why because you're absolutely right. Um, for all those reasons, the contingent model doesn't enable us to solve difficult hires, because you've got to spend so much time on it. And then pointing out that this was the solution. And then when they say, well, but that's more expensive than I paid, Well, that's fine.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to stop you from paying that, but it's not solving your problem.
Speaker 1:So this is the way to solve it right, and no insanity. Exactly, and in no way or at no time is there any reimbursement involved, unless it's an early trial period, but it's only for a really short space of time. It certainly doesn't go on. And let's say I spend eight weeks or nine weeks on this project. I'm not then going to they say stop, give them their money back. That's not going to be commercially viable as a business model either, which I learned very early on because it's easy again to sell it as a reimbursable option because they go oh brilliant, well, there's no risk because I can just go like four weeks down the line and go actually stop, please, joan, I'll have my money back. That's not commercially viable as a business model, as I discovered either, and not a sensible route to go down. And and the other problem is and it works really well, as Jordan says, with new clients that you haven't worked with, that haven't been having their problems solved or are running into problems with difficult hires on a contingent basis, it's a very well. Ultimately, I find it really easy sell and to position a retained solution and not make it cheaper and in fact make it more expensive. Um, but when you get existing clients, as you were saying, geron, who you've been working with for a while especially if you're, you know, a couple of years down the line and actually they're getting a good service from you well, why should they change? Because they're not having a problem, because you're already solving them all, right, um, and, and I like you saying that, um, you know, just think of it like everything else that we buy these days and you know we're actually paying for everything and, and it's kind of an aversion of that what I've found really has worked really well is, firstly, reaffirming that this is a service they want to continue with. Um, are they happy with what we're doing? And and if they are, well, I am as well, because I really like working with you and I want to carry on working with you. But here's my problem right, every time you ask me to carry out a piece of work, I go away and do this, this and this, and sometimes you then say actually, jaron, I changed my mind on that, I just can you just put a pin in that? And that keeps happening, because clients do do that, right, and when you can point out that that's happening, then you can explain it's not commercially viable for us to.
Speaker 1:We want to carry on. We want to keep providing the service. We want to keep delivering the service you're used to. But the market's not getting any easier. In fact, it's getting harder and harder to convince people to make moves right now, because everyone's like shit. I'm just going to stay put, you know. And so in order for me to carry on delivering the service, I'm going to need some financial commitments, and nothing else is going to change. I'm not looking to make more money from you. It's just a slight change in payment model. So it isn't a change to them. It's a continuation of it's allowing you to continue to provide the level of service that they have come to expect from you. And just let me show you on this next project I'm not going to take, you know, the portion of fee at the commencement of projects and then run away with it, because that's not commercially viable for me either. I don't want to cut my fees by two thirds, and that's worked really well for me, converting existing clients, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think if you compare it to anything else in life, it for me makes it seem really easy, like I think. Now I know and I trust my barber, I like my barber and I sleep well at night knowing I've got someone that cuts my hair that I trust. My barber called me tomorrow and said Jordan, I'm not going to make it any more expensive, but you, you're gonna need to start paying me at the start of the month. Instead, I would go, no problem at all, send me exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got my um cleaners out on a standing order. I mean because it's like they made me sleep. I know them I trust them.
Speaker 2:They've got my back. They do a good job. I can't be arsed with going back to that of like which barber I'm gonna get and I'm gonna to come out with a Mohican or yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And also the other thing that I always remind people of is in every other walk of life, the terms and conditions are constantly changing. How often do you get an email saying oh, your bank has changed its terms and conditions, or Netflix has changed its terms and conditions and you've got to fucking agree with it, or else you don't carry on getting the service. Do you know what I mean? The service? Do you know what I mean? So we we should be consistently altering our terms of business.
Speaker 3:That means that it's commercially viable for us to continue providing the service yeah yeah for a startup like like we are, we pivoting and changing all the time. So we've got five consultants, we've probably got 20 plus clients um, that are how can I say this? Because I say I do a lot of proactive recruitment. So we've got 20 clients that actually are reactive, they send us roles. Then we've got so many more clients that don't send us roles but we proactively sending them people. They obviously pay us, but it's a different thing, right you?
Speaker 2:kind of negotiate on the spot.
Speaker 3:But no, look, it's tricky. I find from my side or where I'm sitting when I do a retainer pitch, the things that keep coming up is number one. We're not used to it, we haven't seen it before and that's actually not hard to overcome. But for me, the easiest way and that's pretty much how we got the last retainer it's generally if you hit the nail on the head, if the contingent model is not solving it, they don't see it as the contingent model is not solving it. They don't see it as a contingent model not solving it. They just see that this is already a hard recruitment, right, like we are not finding this position. It's been open for six months, um, or we've we've interviewed so many people and never found the right person. It's been going on and five agencies have done this.
Speaker 3:At the end there I just kind of explained to the clients, because normally it tapers down and slows down in terms of what they're seeing and the quality, and I say it's because you're on a contingent model. These people have moved on. They're kind of finding bottom of the barrel candidates just flicking it over to keep you alive. But they already focus on another account. They're making money somewhere else. They're not making money from you. So you must understand this is a business. We're not doing a free service. Everyone thinks recruitment is a free service, but you know this is a business.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, anything like that, or or really hard places you know when I say hard places, regions that you just don't generally. Yeah, too many, too many recruitment eyes. If someone goes, we need someone in estonia or poland or cayman islands or gibraltar. You know those type of things.
Speaker 2:They're really tricky and you're like well, I do the Cayman Islands, sharon, but I think it's much better to do it in person in the Cayman Islands.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course it's easier in person out there yeah yeah, you need to meet the candidates face to face right, no, yeah, for sure yeah, I agree, it is.
Speaker 1:Um, it is much easier where the contingent model is failing. All you need to do is point out to the client what's happening. It isn't the agency, it isn't them, it's the contingent model that doesn't enable us to actually provide the service that needs to be provided. I've also found that the same is true for clients that you're existing clients that you're working with, where they're really difficult. You know you've got a client where you're sending cvs and they're just like no, no, you know, um, and you're constantly just not getting where you need to be with it and they're going come on, we need this filled now.
Speaker 1:That's a great opportunity to go okay, how's it going for you? And they can go no, it's shit, we're not getting where we need to go. Okay, here's what's going on here. This is really unattractive to work. We're not getting feedback, or you've beaten us down to a low percentage, and every other and it's multi-agency and every other agency is having the same problem. Here's what we can do to solve it and I'd like to demonstrate that to you that that, again, is another really nice opportunity to convert to retained. Tell us about you, told us about a recent win, um, any other kind of good news what's working for you right now?
Speaker 3:what's working. We are at the moment absolutely plowing the market with marketing our candidates. For me that's the quickest way, honestly, for business development. Don't get me wrong. I I do connect with people and I think two things that I normally teach my consultants to do. You know every single and this is going to sound weird because I generally find it, with a lot of the 180 consultants, the people that are generally strong on the candidate side never had business development training, maybe too scared to do business development.
Speaker 3:Every candidate is a client and every client is a candidate, no matter which way you look at it. That's the truth. So whenever I speak to a candidate, I always keep close as close as I can be, because at some point they're going to be in a situation where they're going to be a hiring manager. That's number one. Automatic should be. Normally it's a smooth intro, but sometimes they do forget about you. But every client is obviously a candidate. You can always pitch them. So what's working for us on the bd front is keeping close and getting recommended and referred in. So be it that it's an old candidate of ours that's now become a hiring manager. Maybe put us in front of the talent team to sign terms of procurement. That's always worked well. Uh, marketing of candidates is the quickest way for us to do business development. If I'm going to be honest, it's taking something of value to so anyone, any agency, can phone and talk a big game.
Speaker 3:I actually do this, this, this training, on only usp and it's scary. How many times I ask a recruitment agent, tell me what's your unique selling point? And the same hogwash that comes out their mouth we the best, we have the best talent. We can find them within three days. It's like, honestly, that's no USP, that's what every other person says.
Speaker 3:So what I find is going to a client, seeing what they're looking for on LinkedIn or through my network, finding out they're looking for specific need, finding that candidate and saying to the professional look, I don't have, and I'm very open and transparent, if not too transparent. Say to the candidate I don't have terms with these guys. I've identified this client, take a look at them. This is why I think you'd be right for them and why I think you are going to love this company. Then phoning that hiring manager, cold call and I've've literally got. I don't know if I can show it because you might see names and stuff. Maybe I'll pull up the first, but like, literally just I'm old school, it's probably very white, but I write out and I do a pitch and I phone these guys and I tell them you know I'm phoning you.
Speaker 3:It's a cold call. The reason I'm phoning you is I've got this phenomenal person I saw online. You're looking. This is why I think this person's great and I'll pitch it. It doesn't always land well low, so at the end of the day the person will be like, no, we don't use you psl or all the objection handling things that we normally get. We're trying to overcome that. But the whole point of that is showcasing number one, reproductive. Number two we, if they willing to look at the cv or meet the person, that generally, even if you say, look, there's no strings attached, you don't need to hire this person. All I'm looking to do is for you to meet them.
Speaker 3:And my rebuttal at the end is always you never know when a resignation is going to happen. You never know when a new project is going to land. Just meet them. Have your pockets of good talent in there. It's a rolodex that if anything happens you can go through it and go. Wait a minute. I met ben three weeks ago. Let me phone jared. So for me the proactiveness. Sometimes you don't get the quick win but weirdly enough, I'll get contacted like three months down the line by someone saying you phoned me the other time and sent me this person we're actually looking for xyz. Can you help us with that? Yeah, that is also a cheeky way to go back, because now they're asking you to hit them with a retainer because it's an incoming.
Speaker 1:It's not, it's not going out right. So yeah, and at that point it's nice to be able to explain. Look, we work with clients in different ways. Some of our clients just want to see people ad hoc and some people need something specific. Now in the just wanting to see random people here and there, we can just send you the silver medalists from the searches we're doing. But if you actually need someone finding, then here's how we go about it. Yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 1:The two feed each other right exactly yeah, one of the things I watched recently that made me feel very encouraged, because I think I hear a lot of people saying you know, is agency? Is the role of the agent in recruitment, you know, diminishing because of our ability now to be able to use and talent acquisition teams getting more and more sophisticated, which which they are, um, and utilizing the, the data that's at their fingertips was this is a very english thing, so I don't know whether, um, you will know of it, but do you watch clarkson's farm, george?
Speaker 3:I've never watched it I do, I do, you watch it? Oh, yeah, yeah he's I love
Speaker 1:it he is very, very amusing. I know he's a bit acerbic. Some people uh like him, some people don't. But in the most recent um series, the first episode, he's been on his own because caleb, his um assistant, has gone off. Uh, um, you know, as julian clary or whatever jeremy clarkson said and doing stage shows, so he's running the farm on his own and god, he struggles.
Speaker 1:He's trapped to break he can't fix it, he can't drill the crops, he can't feed the pigs, he keeps getting stuck in the mud. He's just really struggling. I mean he's an old guy, right? And so he says to his guy charlie, charlie, help me out, man, I'm not gonna be able to do this on my own. And the first thing Charlie says did you watch it? Did you hear what he said? Yeah, there are some really good agencies we can go to that will be able to find someone the first thing he said I was like yes, get in.
Speaker 2:That's the way forward.
Speaker 1:So yeah, they found an agency and they found him, a Harriet, who turned out to be hilarious and very, very good, um. So yeah, I was really enthused by that and I loved it, I think.
Speaker 3:I don't think we're going to have to find that episode, one of the story for anyone struggling is going to farming recruitment yeah, yeah oh, my god, I don't know, that would be messy, literally.
Speaker 1:Uh. So, um, tell us, um, jaron, what's next for you and your business.
Speaker 3:What's next?
Speaker 3:We're really looking to move into the Americas market. So, be it, open up offices in Florida or Texas. I'm just using some of my advisors who give me kind of heads up what we should do that side, because it's always I don't know. In recruitment I've noticed if you're on the ground it's so much better. You know I'm remote, but being on the ground, even if I'm not on the ground, having an office space we work, shared office and having a consultant there just bodes well, you know, having someone local. So we do a lot of business outside. I think it's best to open up something Texas and Florida, purely because of the tax relief, entertainment industry and I think it's oil. There's a reason. So opening offices there get better tax breaks.
Speaker 3:Um, coley's evolving. So coley started off as a recruitment firm. Um, I kind of say we actually are a recruitment incubator. Now this is going to sound extremely weird, but hey, here's me selling to any consultants that want to come join. So what we're doing with all the consultants that have joined, the reason they. So what we're doing with all the consultants that have joined, the reason they've joined, is they're going to work with me.
Speaker 3:We all work together. We all share knowledge. We're also part of this alliance with these other founders. We share knowledge, we train each other, we build because we're always up to learning and upskilling. Even myself, I don't know everything in recruitment. I don't know everything in recruitment. I learn every single day. So we do like at Coley if you join us, after two years there's a little trigger pool that if you are ready, you can go start your own company. You can start your own recruitment agency. So we are an incubator for consultants that want to come learn.
Speaker 3:If you a lot of them have joined us, who are 180 consultants trying to learn how to be 360, learn business development, I'm teaching them that after two years they're self-sustaining, they're running a desk, they're getting a decent ar repeat clients. There's no point for them to carry on working for us. Now it's going to sound bizarre because most agency like hold on to your best talent. No, I want them to thrive. I wanted them to be financially free so they can go, with the condition that I'm going to back them. I want to invest in their business, I want equity in their business, and the idea is I'm going to back them. I want to invest in their business, I want equity in their business, and the idea is I'm going to be, hopefully, a recruitment entrepreneur.
Speaker 3:That's the game, that's the aim, but that's how we're evolving. Beside that, we will always have the recruitment arm. We're not going to be a haze, we're not going to be a reed, we're not going to be a deco. I think five per region, that's it, top fillers only and, as mentioned, once they pull the trigger and they move, we'll replace and we'll just keep turning. So we almost like a training academy internally.
Speaker 3:Then it moves me to the next revenue stream which I'm trying to do is actually through training and coaching and and monetize it. You know we're doing currently about 30 consultants that join, and it's not my agency, it's other agencies joining for free, um, some from big agencies that you would assume have training. But these people are joining and it's really cool to see them grow and evolve their desk. And then the third thing, which I would say I'm kind of reluctant to do, but I've been pitched by one of my consultants and I'm very open-minded as a founder is doing reselling of products. We have a lot of clients that are in fintech, space and wellness, and well, they call it health and wellness and fitness tech, fit tech.
Speaker 3:You know all these different techs prop tech, fit tech, med tech. They've got these really cool things that actually link up to HR and like rewards and benefits. And we've actually been pitched by one of our clients to say, would you be able to pitch this into chief hr people? You know, because this is a really cool product and it really is, I wouldn't just resell anything. So we're even looking at that it's going and, yes, the thing it's not really reselling. It is reselling because we will make money off it.
Speaker 3:But I want to provide as much value as possible to a client and it doesn't just have to be recruitment. You know, as people say, it's a relationship game, not a transactional game. If you can provide value, even if it doesn't deem revenue for you right now, that is the aim of the game is to provide value. Be in what's it invaluable? Um, what's the word invaluable? That's right. Yeah, is it invaluable? Be invaluable to the client that they will come back to you time over time of it's not just recruitment, it might be for something else, but if you can show value, that's one way to keep clients for long. And I've got some clients honestly, they've been with me for eight years, followed me the journey from agency to agency just because I showed value I agree, here, here and jaren um, where can people contact you?
Speaker 1:how can they get hold of you if they want to reach out?
Speaker 3:don't. Don't contact me please. I get messaged too many times. Um, look, I use linkedin as a sole platform. Uh, I do have facebook and instagram private, not really shared. Um, don't really have the whole company thing on that either. It's purely linkedin. That is my social platform. Reach out to me, share that with the episode, then, yeah, that's, that's the bestin that is my short social platform.
Speaker 1:Reach out to me there with the episode then yeah, that's.
Speaker 3:That's the best way to contact me. I'm very active on it, so you'll be surprised a lot. We know like. Yeah, they were like he's not going to respond and I'll respond within 10 minutes. They're like okay dude, do you sleep? So yeah, please contact me on linkedin. I'll have your help and it's not just about recruitment. If there's any advice, anything you want around the career, I'm happy to share my knowledge and support anyone to try and get a job that's lovely thank you so much for joining us today, jaron.
Speaker 1:It's been a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your nuggets of wisdom and your journey with us. I know it's going to be really, really interesting for you, for our viewers to and our listeners to listen to cool well, thank you for having me my pleasure, pleasure well, that's another episode of retrained search the podcast in the bag.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is. We want to say a special thank you to our Retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve.
Speaker 1:It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our search mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of retrain search the pod.
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