The Retained Search Show
This is the show for ambitious recruiters who want to win and deliver retained searches with confidence. Expect real stories, proven strategies, and insights you can actually use.
The Retained Search Show
The Slow Death of Contingent Recruitment: Simon Lewis on Communities, Collaboration & 2026
In the final episode of 2025, Louise sits down with RecConnect founder Simon Lewis to unpack what’s really coming for the recruitment industry in 2026 and why traditional contingent perm is on a slow, silent death march.
Simon shares his unconventional journey from Sunday Times journalist to IT recruiter, to job board owner, to community builder for recruitment leaders. Drawing on conversations with hundreds of agency owners and economists, he explains why this moment is the most radical shift recruitment has seen in decades and why those clinging to “business as usual” are in trouble.
They dive into:
- Why contingent perm is shrinking fast (and what will replace it)
- How retained, project and subscription models create space for real consultancy
- Why human connection, not automation, will be your competitive edge in 2026
- The power of communities and shared experiences in transforming leaders, not just businesses
- Old-school tactics that are suddenly working again (think handwritten notes and real-life lunches)
- The one word Simon says should define your strategy next year: collaboration
If you’re a recruiter or recruitment leader wondering how to evolve, protect your margins and actually enjoy the next cycle, this episode is your roadmap.
🎧 Listen now, share it with a recruiter who needs a wake-up call for 2026, and hit subscribe so you don’t miss what’s coming next.
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Welcome to Retained Search, the podcast, where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way, and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Oh, hello everybody, and welcome to the last episode of 2025 of the Retained Search Show. I'm delighted to be joined by Simon Lewis. Simon and I have been working together for I don't even know how long now. Several years, several years.
SPEAKER_01:It was definitely as far back as COVID and maybe possibly been pre-that. So, you know, we're five years plus, I would say.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I'm really grateful that you've joined us at what's really busy time. We've just been saying how uh busy it is at the moment. Thank you, Simon. Uh, for those of the audience that don't know you and aren't familiar with your journey, could you start by sharing with us how you've arrived at where you are now? What's the background?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the background. I'll I'll summarise. So it's it's quite unique, I think, um, on a basis that I actually started my career as a journalist. Um, so I wrote for the Sunday Times and the Times actually. I also did a little bit of work for The Sun, but it was primarily the um the broadsheets that I worked for. And there was a moment where I was working and I just didn't feel like it was really, despite training for it, where I wanted to be. And it was largely and completely ironically, because I saw how haggard all the hacks were, um, and just and they weren't getting paid a huge amount of money. So I decided to go to university. I went to Bournemouth, but I continued training as a journalist. Actually, I did English and communication studies with journalism along the side. And then my mates kept coming down with faster, better cars to see me. Um and about the the third year of the university degree, I asked them what they did, and they said IT contract recruitment. So um, pretty much a few years, well, not even but years weeks later, I um I left university and started IT contract recruitment, as you do. And so I am honest enough to say that I was entirely driven by the money and drawn to what seemed to be a relatively easy way of earning quite a bit of cash. So um I did that for four years and ultimately it was I was successful, but I grew tired of selling buzzwords, which essentially was what I was doing, and I didn't feel very purposeful at all. So um I left and set up on my own and I did sales recruitment for a while. Um, and then I fell into, I say fell into it's probably where I was eventually going to be with doing marketing recruitment, which I did really successfully, um, grew quite a large business um before the banks crashed in 2008, and um selling contingency contract recruitment into marketing space in banks wasn't really where you needed to be. So um we lost that business, unfortunately, and I set up our uh a job board, which is probably where most people will recognise me from. Um staying called what job called it called up only marketing jobs so multi-award winning across 16 years, absolutely loved it. Um and I set that up because I thought it would be easier than set up a new recruitment business after banks crashed. Turned out that wasn't um easier to set up a new business. Um, nonetheless, it was really, really interesting. I met a whole bunch of brilliant people, and what it actually did was got me conversing with recruitment agencies rather than being my competitors, then of course my customers, and subsequently um really, really good friends. I'm I'm friends with many of those people now. So that's that's the career. And then when um when during the course of running that um job board, I started creating communities, and it started off with lunch clubs and getting uh sort of high-profile speakers to those, and really sort of us leaders putting the world to rights, really, and that then spun into the uh the community, which is what I'm now doing. So that's the potted history. Um, and so yeah, I mean it's it's kind of it's gone full circle to an extent because a large part of what I'm doing now, of course, is content production, which is what I did all those years ago and decided I didn't want to do.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's interesting. What was it that going back then? What was it that drew you to journalism in the first instance?
SPEAKER_01:Um when I well, when I was really young, I wanted to be a stump man. Um then I wanted to be TV presenter. Um and then, but all of that is you know sort of outgoingness, I suppose. But it was the journal, I just always had a flair for writing, so it was just something that was seemed to be the most natural um natural industry to go into. Um and I still do love all of that.
SPEAKER_00:Um but well, you do a lot of it now, like you said.
SPEAKER_01:I was only young, right? At the time I was I was young for writing for the Sunday Times. I was 19, so that was young.
SPEAKER_00:Um what kind of stuff were you writing for then?
SPEAKER_01:Uh mainly well ended up mainly being sport, but I did a lot of did a lot of new stuff. Um, but when you first begin, you kind of find your way and you go into all the different departments and just find things uh fashion was never gonna be my thing. Really? Um but yeah, so yeah, did a lot of news, did a lot of um uh news coverage, but ultimately it was sport. Um, you know, and you know when you kind of think, look, there's no regrets in life. Well, I don't have any anyway, but I do think now had you foreseen how journalism is going to end up and it's normal or broadcasting, I probably would have stuck at it if I knew what was coming down the line. But at the time, you know, this this was proper hack journalism, um, which which was gut fun, but not well paid enough at first.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we we I am a fair believer that we all are all exactly where we should be and where we need to be. Um tell tell me a bit about the community that you run now. I know a bit about it, but for the audience that don't, what's it about? Who's it for?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we're a recruitment leader. Yeah, we're a recruitment leader community. So there are the recruitment leadership, uh recruitment leader communities out there, obviously. Um, and ours in terms of its demographic, I don't suppose is too different. Um, but we help recruitment businesses of all shapes and sizes achieve their goals, and those goals are obviously respective and subjective. So from solopreneurs who want to run a lifestyle type business all the way through to you know 200,000 plus organizations, but within those larger sizes, more about the leadership within them, as opposed to trying to develop their you know their their business, obviously. Um, but we do that through uh largely through events um and um and general content um production too, but also real collaboration. So we're all about connections and conversations. In fact, it's our sort of our byword for what we do. So getting people together, having those conversations, and really helping out. So I suppose collaboration is really where we're at. Um, and together we we build businesses and help them get to where they want to get to.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, greater than the sum of your parts, as I often say, about our team.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think you probably agree. I agree. And what um what what make what do you think makes Retconnect different to other? You mentioned there are other communities and there are quite a few. Um I have experienced lots of them, as you probably know, and and including Retconnects, which I love. What is it that that makes you guys different?
SPEAKER_01:Uh the the people, 100%. So, which I know sounds like a really obvious possibly, but maybe a bit trite um answer, but it is true. And part of the reason why it's true is because of the demographic of those people. So um there is no one sector which is um prominent amongst the the rest. Um, to begin with, we all naturally, given my background, had a prevalence of marketing-based digital recruitment agencies, but that that landscape has changed so dramatically over the five years, um, that doesn't really existed as as it's as it used to. So now we're we're so we've got 32 different recruitment sectors covered in the community, which is outstanding, isn't it? You wouldn't think there were 32 sectors to cover.
SPEAKER_00:No, well, I don't know. I I experienced quite a few different sectors too. What are some of the most surprising, like or interesting you find? Like I sometimes come across sectors and think, God, of course they recruit, of course there's recruitment agencies in that sector, but wow. Like um, there we came across one that was in um I don't know how do you put it, uh adult entertainment.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well that's new.
SPEAKER_00:One of those, we've not heard that before. Yeah, I was so I was like, oh my god, who knew there were recruiters that specialized in adult entertainment, but there are.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, right. Well, I'll introduce um literally so so we're missing adult entertainment.
SPEAKER_00:There you go, that's gotta be acquired next. So tell me, um, you know, we see we both see the benefits of of uh community building and community engagement. What's surprised you most about what people actually want from the community and get value from uh human connections. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and when I say that's surprising, it shouldn't sound surprising. And maybe in 2025 it it isn't as surprising as it was, right? So if you um consider the my original environment of IT contract recruitment, right? No people wouldn't be working together in that environment those years ago, like they would have been sworn enemies and having you know fights in the street sooner than they would be getting in a room trying to solve each other's problems, right? Yeah, um, so the world has evolved since then, and our industry has definitely matured and become more sophisticated over that period of time. Um, but whenever we put on an event, it is always that that creates the magic, and people always walk away, and even if they've heard really great speakers or they've heard someone say really something quite important in a general conversation, um, it's always the bit where someone says something they've done that nobody else had even thought of, and quite often it's because it's come out of a different sector as well when they're working. Um, so that helps really, you know, um considerably. So that is what I'd say is probably the most appropriate, just how willing, maybe that's the thing, how willing people are to be collaborative um and actually help others. I'm not saying they're gonna sit there and help their direct competitors improve their business, right? I'm not going that far, but what I'm saying is that people from from different sectors outside of their own realm are definitely um up for that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I agree. And how are you feeling? Everybody has been asking me what you know what this year's been like for McCreators. I'm more interested in next year. What what are you feeling and thinking about the industry for 2026?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I have the privilege of listening to as a result of stuff that we do, I have the privilege of listening to listening to hundreds of people across the year talking about loads of different things. And most of the time I speak with recruitment agencies, so I'm getting their viewpoint, much of which this year has been similar. But I've also had the privilege listening to economists as part of what we do. So I actually hear people who are inside from an economical, financial, governmental standpoint, which is entirely different to what most recruiters might get access to. So a lot of how I feel is a result of that, as well as it is my own subjective uh feeling. But in general, if I'm being completely honest, I'm I'm optimistic for the recruitment businesses that are prepared to make a change and are prepared to evolve with how I think most people perceive the market as going. So take outside AI um for a moment because that's where most people sort of pin the flag on the mask saying this is the biggest change, which in in many regards it is actually a lot of it's about the mindset, and I think a lot of people have been sort of a bit beaten down, maybe from 2025, and not just that, 2024 as well. Um, so you know, there's a lot of fatigue, a lot of lag right now. So I'm optimistic, but to a point, but only for those businesses that think, Joe, what I'm actually I'm gonna seize this opportunity, there's no more excuses, take out world conflicts, which are obviously completely nothing we can do about, right? Um, and hopefully they'll be as far as they can resolved soon. But the budget for was a blocker for so many people for lots of good reasons and understandable reasons too. But I think we convinced ourselves that until that was done, nothing could happen, right? And we had to wait and see what the outcome of it was. But now that's done. So I think now that that has been done, and there's nothing right around the corner immediately. 2026 will be better than 2025. I'm absolutely convinced of that, but mindful that you know the the the economy's still in a bit of a bit of a state. Um, and we do also need to get some vigour back, you know. That that that verve has been a little bit lost, I think. Not for everybody at all, but for for a large swathe of people, they've been a little bit, you know, kicked in the nuts this year, and um they're gonna have to recover that for 2026. But if they do, short answer, I'm quite good.
SPEAKER_00:I love that, Simon. Um, and to hear, you know, the context of where your insights are coming from. What when you say, you know, for those that are willing to evolve, what do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_01:So recruitments are silo, right? Always has been, and a lot of the things that we do now, I was doing in 1997. That's cracky, mass isn't as good as the English. Um, uh and and it absolutely absolutely is true. And there are people who have been in the industry longer than me who say the same thing, right? So, so we are, I genuinely think that after all the different cycles that this sector has been through over the years, this moment in time is the most revolutionary in terms of how um recruitment is not just done but also perceived, and what the expectations of customers, if you want to call them that clients or or job seekers and candidates, right? And underpinning all of that is a tech advancement that no one can can hide from, and nor should anyone hide from it either. And so those that embrace that and look at it and go, okay, well, let's just get on board with this and make things work, will will, you know, not just survive but thrive. Um, but also inside of business models, which I'm sure we can, you know, we'll come on to. But people doing perman contingency recruitment, I, in my personal opinion, are on a slow death knoll. Um, and I don't mean to be sensationalistic with that, but I just genuinely think that that market is shrinking and it is shrinking fast, and people don't quite understand that that is the case. And I don't know how many recruitment agencies are in the UK. Now the number varies, isn't it? But let's just say it's 33,000, which seems to be the new figure that people are talking about. That won't be that number for very much longer. And whilst I do believe that a lot of businesses will spin into out of 2026, like they always do, there's somebody else setting up another recruitment business for one reason or another, um, unless you are fiercely determined to um really hit it hard, really be brilliant at BD, really be brilliant at brand. Um I think that those that don't do that in whatever size they are are gonna struggle. Um but that that business model, switching out from that and finding something else that works, whether or not it's retained, project-based, subscription models. I mean, there's there's various different ways that people can look at it. But um, that for me is um is the biggest biggest change people can make.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I'm seeing exactly the same thing, and it's um you know, we haven't spoken. This is the most in-depth conversation we've had for I don't know, a year. Yeah, maybe, maybe a bit more, and a lot's happened over the course of that that time, and you know, to hear you say that without having any pre-calibration, you know, or um, that's overwhelmingly my experience as well, like overwhelmingly, and uh, you know, we we don't have a crystal ball and we can't predict the future, and you know, I'm I'm grateful for every moment that our business, our little business is happy and thriving and helping people and doing well, and I never take for granted what's around the corner or what's gonna happen tomorrow, and um even call and have called the house that I'm in, the holiday house, for the last 18 months, just in case, you know, um, that we we don't we didn't know which way what how it was gonna go or what the you know whether committed and um partnership work, you know, that you're referring to, whether it's retained or whether it's um you know, uh subscription or whether it's you know project solutions, whatever it looks like, uh, was going to be something that people wanted to do. And actually, our experience is that it isn't even about people wanting to do it anymore. Like they just have to, because otherwise it's dying. Like they're just the business is just slowly, you know, shriveling up. Um what are your thoughts then? To be specific and give you a you know a more kind of specific question around it. What are your thoughts on retained?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, as you know, I've always felt that retained is um is the way to go. There it might not necessarily have always been like back in the day, uh but even then I suspect it probably was. But what you get with retained is a much more consultative approach, right? Um, and obviously you know that you know what that looks like more than I do. But what I do know is that there is an absolute race to the bottom with fees, there's a race to the bottom with time and speed. Um, and you know, people saying that they're brilliant with the speed of delivery is one thing, but what does that mean, right? So it probably means that your um diversity and inclusive policies probably aren't really quite being um met as a result of that, right? So then you're then complaining about the fact that you can't find the talent, but you've not allowed the time to find it. So um, what do customers really want aside from uh let's call it inverted commas CV shifting, uh shifting service? I know it's more than that, but for the purpose of this, they don't want that anymore and they're not expecting that anymore. And if you're gonna hold your 20, let's just call it again as an average, then what you've got to be doing more than that. Um, and I've I've have historically found it amazing and also amusing that people call themselves recruitment consultants, and then when you ask them what they consult over, they literally don't consult over anything. Now that um I'm not I'm not being derisory, right? But that is true of many recruiters, and they are the ones that are in are in big.
SPEAKER_00:Are you enjoying this so far? Don't miss a single episode. Hit the subscribe button right now so you can be part of the conversation that's shaping the future. Of recruitment. So we dive really deep into the strategies, the stories, and the truth about retained search. So if you want to hear more about it, or you know someone else that needs to hear this, then share it with them. Right, let's get back to the good stuff.
SPEAKER_01:So offering retained-based services allows you and affords you all of that time to get all the other bits right. Right. And if you're not being consultative and you're not looking at different pricing models, and you're not offering a service which is different to what it has been up until pretty much now, um, then I think you're you're um you're not hiding to nothing really. But those that off flip that away around, right, to make it positive. Those that offer all of those things are going to find that opportunity and you know subsequently wish they've been doing it five years beforehand.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's um it's interesting. I'm just writing the new sales module in our advance in our mastery programme, and based on what is what is working and those people that are doing very well, the approach they're taking to sales, and it's so true what you say. What's working is not the not sales actually, not sales, it's um it's solutions that are bought, not sold. So they're solutions to problems that the customer is, you know, that the salesperson is diagnosing and then articulating, and the customer is buying them. It isn't it isn't being sold. And that's so different from you know what we knew as contingent recruiters. Like it's uh I don't know what I consulted on. I remember my client meetings and client conversations, and it was just have you got any jobs now? Have you got any jobs soon? Have you got any jobs kind of anytime after that? And that was what I had to come out with if what they were looking for and what they needed, and that was it. And the kind of diagnostic that we need to do now to uncover the kind of problems that a customer has to be able to position solutions around it, it's nothing I was ever taught before. In fact, I yeah, I've it's just completely alien to the way that most contingent recruiters have grown up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, hundred percent. Um, and so therefore, it's a whole new skill set, which uh which is another conversation, the kind of people that you need to be hiring. When I was recruiting the the IT contract people, something drew me into um not wanting to make any phone calls because I was basically bottom of the list every single week, but I was also one of the highest achievers. And do you know the reason why? It's kind of took people out. So in those days, it was HR that you had to go get through, right? That was the gate, that was the gatekeeper. So I just went, right, well, let's just meet up then. And I just had a I don't know, maybe I was just very good at talking to people, but that's what I did. So in taking HR out, you're not sitting there going, What vacancies have you got, right? Because they wouldn't have met you if that was the case. They've met you because you had an inkling to ask about what the culture looks like, for example, um, who works and who doesn't. And I ended up recruiting on the site, you know. I mean, when you think about that, it was like in you know, banks, Barclays, Credit Swiss, Alban Stanley, JP Morgan, these kind of banks, right? And how was I doing that at 22, 23 years old? I mean, it's kind of when I reflect on it, it has a little bit obscene. Um, but that kind of and that was a it was it wasn't an RPO, but it was a mini start or something, it could have become something like that. But what it was a hundred percent was a time, it it was efficiency of time. I didn't feel the pressure to then have to go back in the office and spam a load of CVs because my competitors were doing that, right? I just knew that I had the time to do that because I'd worked that relationship. That's what it's all about, relationships.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Like, so if you said like how should the brand be positioned, everyone puts you know trusted honesty, all of that stuff, but you know, it's just by words, aren't they? Um, really, that trust element and people buying you because they trust you. Um, it has never been more accentuated than now, has it?
SPEAKER_00:I totally agree. It takes me back when I when I actually got formally trained, I got formally trained by Hudson, which was TMP Worldwide, and their training was amazing. You know, it was like I know the Hayes training is very, very good, but the TMP worldwide of the Hudson training was excellent, and they invested a lot in us. And I I was HR, I did HR for four years. So those people that you were winning over were my candidates and my clients, which there was even better, really. Um, and that was where um one of the rules that we had was you had to meet every candidate face to face, and you had to meet every client face to face. You could not submit a candidate, you could not represent a candidate until you'd met them face to face and shook their hand and looked in their eyes and seen how they presented themselves. And the same with the client, you had to go and build a relationship with them. And it's funny how these things come full circle. I was in the um, uh I noticed a post in the community the other day in the um, you know, retained uh mastery group, and he was saying, uh, I'm sending handwritten notes, and there's a photograph of him with his handwritten notes on his desk and his nice uh you know, Mont Blanc, and he was writing carefully these nice handwritten messages and posting them all out to people. It's so funny what and and it's working, basically, it's working, and it's it's landing really, really well at the most senior level. And um, I mean, God, years ago that was one of the things that we used to do, you know, years and years and years ago. And it's lovely how and funny how things do come, you know, full circle, don't they? And what what we're all tired of now is this what was amazing before. Oh my god, like campaigns and automated emails. Oh my god, this is insane, this is amazing. And I was the first one to jump on that bus and go, this is incredible, this is so good. And now it's like nobody reads those anymore. That's a pile of shite. Let's get human and let's get out and have lunch and let's send them some notes and stuff. I I love it. I like that I've been around long enough to see that come back again.
SPEAKER_01:I could not agree with you anymore. Well, bearing in mind that I'm not putting in the same age bracket, uh Louise, but we probably are about the same age, Simon.
SPEAKER_00:I reckon we are.
SPEAKER_01:Well, maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Um I'll be 40. How old will I be? It's my birthday on Saturday. I always forget how that's how old I am. I've forgotten how old I am. Um you started at the four, though, so that's I think I'm 46 on Saturday. I think.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so so maybe my extra couple of years meant that I didn't even have any choice other than to write those notes because there were no choice, there was no email to send it to, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, you were a tiny bit before me. I think email came out when I was about I don't know, 18 maybe, I don't know when it would have been. Well, we had a computer in the house that we sent the first email from. God, isn't it mad how things have changed so much, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:It has, and you know, we can uh we can reflect and uh be nostalgic. But no, no, no, but but I but I love it, and the reason why I love it, and if you speak to um a lot of you know marketing um experts um now, they will say that these are the kind of things that people really should be like doing. It's not like go back and just you know, necessarily that's the week and now start doing, but we all complain about the fact that no one reads our emails, right? Um and we all complain the fact that that we're spending fortunes, not I am, but spending fortunes on in in mails in LinkedIn and no one ever reads them, right? Um, and that's because of what we've collectively done, um, which is just overwhelm each other with that kind of stuff. So why wouldn't you try something different? Yeah, whatever that might that difference might look like. And obviously, depending on the sector that you work in, that may well be a completely different thing. But but that's another, you know, if you're looking to stand out in 2026, yeah, then do something that is different to what you're compared to doing. Simple as that. Now, you know, if we all then start writing letters to everybody, then maybe you've lost the art. Yeah, yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we're going a full circle. Yeah, we had a good idea. We're gonna do like um a bulky mail campaign. We're actually gonna send everybody something that they can have on their desk, and that is old school, but we're gonna give it a go.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, brilliant.
SPEAKER_00:It's gonna be like a really helpful thing. I won't give it away what it's gonna be, but um, we'll send you one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, look, please, absolutely, I want to be part of that because I wouldn't know I'd love to I'd love to see that. When we um when we first started Retroct and it's old guys, so we changed the name to Retro Trek over Covey. Before that, it was called Members Only. For those that might remember that brand.
SPEAKER_00:I do remember that.
SPEAKER_01:When we were running those events, so they're all experiential events, but you could only get to the event if you worked out a series of clues, so those clues were sent to people in the post. Um then once they then got their final clue, they're now to go and get another one, which is somewhere random, usually in London, before they can then find a venue. I love that. You know, the thought we're doing that now, where everybody's saying time precious is probably not really a thing, but that's what we I mean, that was six years ago that we were doing that. Um, and it was so well received. No, guess what? The only people one person didn't find a venue once, but everybody turned up. There was no drop bouts for any of our events because of the intrigue around it, the whole getting there in the first place.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love stuff like that. I love games, can't wait for Christmas play games and stuff. Um, one of the training that we did in for Hudson was a treasure hunt. It was a full day, and we started early in the morning, and they gave us a sheet of basically I think it was the first clue, and then the the uh tools at our disposal and resources we had at our disposal. And we had to go to that place to figure out what you know, it was yeah, how to get the next piece of the puzzle to get to the next place. And one of the tools at our disposal was a taxi and a taxi driver for the day. And one of the sections of the journey, we had to get on a bus and speak to the bus driver and get the answer from him, you know, to get and it was like that all day. It was so good. Like it what I like about what you said though is this like shared experience. And they say that nothing brings people together better than shared experiences, and being able to do that for a community and give them shared experiences where people then collaborate better, stronger, with more trust and more enjoyment. Um, I think is so rare in you know, in the age that we're all digital, all online, and all in Zoom. Um, and yeah, I like it. And the more that we can do to get closer to our customers in that regard, in this, you know, in this climate, I'd say the better, really. Um you your community undoubtedly helps, shapes um and creates success. Like what kind of transformations do you see happen? What you know, what are there some surprising stories, uh interesting transformations, developments that you see people making in their businesses or personally through their time with you?
SPEAKER_01:Well, your last point there, Louise, is really interesting, the personal part of it, because lots of businesses can change, right? You can pivot sectors, you can change the model that you're working to, you can look at different BD stuff, and you can invest in training, right? And all of those things matter. Um, and so most people I would say have changed with the way that it may they might promote themselves or the marketing and the branding, that kind of outreach has probably changed, but none of that I would say, none of it I'd say seismic. Um, and there's no real standout story of anybody or any business I'd say that has done something that's you know monumentally different to another, but there are a hundred percent, not I'll name the actual people themselves, who have changed as individuals, which has had a direct result on the business transforming as well, and that is because they have broken a cycle, they've freed themselves from a silo and they've learned from other people, just taking maybe nuggets here and there or genuinely collaborating over a period of time, maybe they've set themselves a challenge to do X, Y, and Z. But when I now meet some people that I met maybe a year ago who came into our community, and nobody can join it without me knowing who they are for all the obvious reasons, but we run a good referral program too, so that that helps. But the people that I meet and I speak to um that a year down the line have completely switched, and they might have switched the way that they approach the industry, they might have switched the way that they look at their leadership, and that's massive for this year. You know, whether or not you're a solopreneur or running a business of a scale um or looking to employ people full stop, right? Um, how you manage those people the leadership around that absolutely matters because we cannot no business can go for a that nightmare scenario of you know um attrition, and you no one's growing if you're just losing people all the time. So that retention, again, nothing particularly new, but I in my experience that comes down to the people that are in the business, and you know, it's there's a lot of blame culture that goes on. They didn't do this, they didn't do that, right? But how much of that was down to you as the leader? So the leadership stuff, the individual performance, um, and getting that as optimized as possible is really where that's another of what we do as well. Um, but it's certainly where I would see the biggest example of change has come from the individuals who I'm of I can't name, but um yeah, you probably know them because you would have seen them. You might have looked at some and gone, bloody hell, your your you know, the way you look at that and approach that is completely different to how you did 12 months ago. Um so that's the best I can sort of yeah, no, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Um another thing I wanted to ask was communities. I just wanted to just p pick up on that for a second because there are a lot of uh the firms that I'm working with that are going down this route for their customers and creating communities that will bring their customers together, you know, be it CFO, uh now, CFO next, you know, CEO to NED, whatever their communities are? What are your if you were to advise somebody on how you you're very good at establishing a successful community, you've done a fantastic job with yours. Um and you've learnt a lot, I'm sure, over the years of doing it as well. What would be your top tips for creating a powerful community that, as you say, and I know it does, has a um has a great, great group of people that inspire and help each other. If you were to advise somebody that was looking to build something like that for their you know finance market or their marketing market, for example, what would you say?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um wow, okay. So there's lots of things. But I I think really every every industry and sort of person with that industry is going to be different, right? Obviously, but one thing that would probably remain true underneath the all is the sense of I don't know, we used to call it paying it forward. Do we still call it called it paying it forward? Yeah, like giving it back, right? So whatever you so a good example would be um uh when you're trying uh referral programs. So one of the things I've learned over that, over that, which I think is really indicative of any really good communities getting the right people in, um, is that people are motivated by money and they're motivated, motivated by a sense of doing good. Um if you can make that competitive um in any regard, so gamify that in some way, I think that probably helps. But again, that might actually come down to the type of individual that you're we all want to win, we're recruiters.
SPEAKER_00:Well, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So in a sales environment, recruit environment, then that's probably gonna work, right? Whether that works in a FD and I'm not stereotyping FDs, whether or not that has got the same motivation and driver, I don't know. But irrespective of that, creating a community where the people within it feel like they are genuinely giving back is the is the best and tightest way to get people to engage because every community will have, irrespective of its size, irrespective of its makeup, every community will have the participants and what I call the voyeurs, right? So they like the community, they love it. If you spoke to them and say, I love being a part of that community, but yet you never hear from them, but it's because they're just taking the information do what they want of it, but that's fine, you have to overcome that and just accept that's the thing, but then you get the um, you know, I suppose it's more the 20% rather than the 80 who are real participants and the drivers. You can make them champions as we have done, and we're about to do more in 2026 and make them ambassadors, right? They're the people that shout for the root ops about how great it is and why they're gonna do that because they have across the time acquired the skills or learned some you know experiences, share those that help them, and most human beings do actually generally want to help other people.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we're hardwired to help, I read. Um, you know, you stop and ask someone for the time, that people will automatically, you know, they will help or for directions. We we are as human beings hardwired to help people, right?
SPEAKER_01:There we go. So that sense of um you know um altruistic behaviour um is is inbuilt.
SPEAKER_00:I agree.
SPEAKER_01:So I love that such that underpins all the communities I've ever run. That is the underpinning element that makes it that makes it thrive.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love that. So nice. Um, what's next for you mentioned a couple of things there? You're going to be doing more of that. What's next for your community? What's coming up for Retconnecting 26?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we're looking to grow the community with more amazing people, um, as you would expect. And um certainly anybody that works in the adult entertainment industry is welcome. Welcome to join. So just we're creating or not, yeah. Yeah, maybe just anyone. Yeah, maybe there's a caveat of idea of recruiting in that sector, yeah. Um but no, well look, we we've had a brilliant year of events. So 2025 is probably our best year for events, and what I mean by the best year is the feedback that we've received and the way that I know our whole community has come together. Um, so that's that. So we're gonna do more of that, and we've we've done a whole load of one-day events across the UK, um, which we're probably gonna reduce to half days, and so we can afford to do more of them. Um, but also mindful that people's time is quite precious, and the whole day seems to be quite a bit these days. Um, we ran a really successful event in London at the end of November or beginning of November, rather. Um, and we're gonna repeat that as that's our flagship event. But amongst all of that, we've got a series of webinars um come up where we're gonna be tackling the hottest topics. So that'll be tech, it'll be marketing, it'll be um, you know, B D, it will be like consultative, how to take your business from A to B or A to Z in the ideal world, obviously, and what that actually looks like and becoming a True consultant, so be running that'll be underpinning a lot of what we do and really helping businesses that actually want to thrive and look towards an exit, right? Um, how many businesses get sold and the recruitment agencies get sold every year? Hardly any. Like, I genuinely think if you looked at the stat, I think you've got as much chance of becoming a pro footballer as selling a recruitment business, which is horrific, isn't it? Right? But but but why is that? There must be a reason. What's the what's the denominator for that? Um, that's what we'll be exploring, and how can businesses find that um and and find that exit? Because I don't suppose many of us are doing recruitment for it like until we want to until we're trying to start in it and do I'll do this for 30 years. You probably had in your mindset that you wanted to leave and find a moment and it and an event at some at some moment that was going to result in you swanning off and doing something else, right? Um so that's what we will be helping recruiters do, and all the content and all the collaboration and connections that we've underpinned the community with the whole time. So more of that.
SPEAKER_00:Amazing. Sounds brilliant. Um, what's your one piece of advice then? If you could distill uh what you see making people successful over the next 12 months, what's the one piece of advice that you want to leave people with for 2026?
SPEAKER_01:Uh become truly collaborative.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I like that.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that transcends every aspect of what we do and into our personal lives as well, um, to be honest. But if you're if you're not, if you've just been siloed one way thinking, don't worry, we'll just plow through until he changes, it ain't changing. So um that is the one word collaboration.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I love that. I love that because that encompasses the um, you know, give to receive and you know, share, share, share, share, share in your value, in your um knowledge, your experiences with your, you know, take up a mentor, uh a mentor and a mentee. Pass on your knowledge, pass on your wisdom, be part of a community, you know, give and and take advice and listen to it as well as you know, be I see, be generous with your customers as well. Like customers want to experience value from you before they're gonna buy, and we need to be sharing our best stuff really with them in order for them to want to work with us.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, and yeah, before you before you said that, I was about to tag on and don't forget, you know, this needs to translate, let's make it commercial. It does need to translate customers as well. And so, um, you know, to to emphasize and understand where you know the show I'm on, Louise. Um, no one's doing that for poem contingency, right?
SPEAKER_00:So no fucking hell. No, totally, absolutely. Well, that is a nice place to arrive at. Thank you so much for spending time with me today, Simon. It's an absolute joy to hear your wrap-up of the year and uh what's in store next year. I can't wait. I know we're gonna be doing some stuff together too. I'm really looking forward to that. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you for your time.
SPEAKER_01:And uh, yeah, I'll speak to saying thanks, Louise.
SPEAKER_00:My pleasure. Happy Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:Merry Christmas to you too.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's another episode of Retrain Search, the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, LinkedIn controversies, and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearch.com. And don't be shy, connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi. We don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is. We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundation's program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently. And we have our Search Mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrain Search the Podcast.
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