Sticky Notes & Big Ideas from the ROC & the 585: Farm to School in Rochester

In this episode, we head to Rochester, New York—aka “the ROC” and home of the legendary “garbage plate” (yes, recipe included in show notes) —to meet community food champion Mike Bulger. Mike takes us inside the city’s vibrant but complex food landscape, where apple orchards surround schools struggling with food access, and where parents, neighbors, and advocates are teaming up to transform wellness policies, school gardens, and local procurement. From play‑based learning to sticky‑note dreams becoming citywide food policy, this conversation explores how Rochester is sowing the seeds for healthier kids, stronger communities, and a future where every school garden thrives. Get ready for heart, humor, and a whole lot of hope—plus a surprising Rochester connection Michelle never saw coming.

Transcript

Transcript

00:00:04 Rick

Welcome to the Farm to School Podcast, where you will hear stories how youth thrive and farmers prosper when we learn how to grow, cook, and eat delicious, nutritious foods in schools across the country.

00:00:15 Michael Rosenberger

And Rochester, New York.

00:00:18 Rick

That was the golden tones of Michael Rosenberger, everybody.

00:00:22 Michelle

We're your hosts. I'm Michelle Markesteyn.

00:00:24 Rick

And I'm Rick Sherman.

00:00:25 Michelle

Still Rick Sherman.

00:00:26 Rick

Still Rick.

00:00:27 Michelle

And when we were in Albuquerque at the National Pharma Cafeteria Conference, there were so many people to meet and so many people to interview. And everyone has a bright idea and a different one. But this person, Mike Bulger, I saw his name tag and it said he was from Rochester, New York. And I just was like…

00:00:45 Rick

Why is that important to you, Michelle?

00:00:47 Michelle

Well, listen to the podcast, you'll find out.

00:00:49 Rick

Okay.

00:00:52 Michelle

It's home of the garbage plate, and it's also home to some really amazing farm to school and school garden work. And here to tell us all about what's happening in “the Roch” is Mike.

00:01:03 Mike Bulger

Yep, straight from the Rock, 585.

00:01:06 Michelle

Welcome, Mike. And for those who aren't familiar…

00:01:10 Mike Bulger

Rochester, New York is in the Finger Lakes region of New York, so it's, you know where Buffalo is in the Great Lakes, it's up there. Pretty long drive from New York City, so I feel like I have to orientate people to that other side of the state. But it's a beautiful region, rich agriculture land, in some ways like a very rust belt area. So our city centers have seen population decline. It's put a lot of burden on our city school district, but the need to feed kids and support their health and nutrition is ever present. So we're there doing the work.

00:01:46 Michelle

And this is something you wouldn't know, but Mike and I connected on. I was born in Rochester, New York.

00:01:50 Christy Sherding

I did not know that until you told me today. That's so cool.

00:01:52 Michelle

And so my mom was an elementary school teacher for 32, 36 years. And my sister also in the Rochester City School District. And so when Mike and I met, I was like, oh my God, what's happening?

00:02:07 Christy Sherding

Your people.

00:02:08 Michelle

These are my people. Because usually when you say you're from New York, you tell me Mike, people say, what street?

00:02:16 Mike Bulger

What borough?

00:02:17 Michelle

Yeah. I'm like… Bromley Road.

00:02:22 Christy Sherding

Well, I say I'm from Michigan and they're holding up the hand, like, can you point to where you're from? Oh yeah, that's true. Which is a very common Michigan thing to do.

00:02:29 Michelle

But nobody does the Finger Lakes.

00:02:31 Mike Bulger

No, one does.

00:02:32 Michelle

And you can't see us podcast world, but I'm like, we're.

00:02:34 Christy Sherding

Holding our hands up.

00:02:35 Michelle

We're doing that. So what is happening in Rochester? This is exciting.

00:02:42 Mike Bulger

Well, like I said, it's abundant agriculture, right? We're surrounded by apple orchards, berry farms, all sorts of great stuff. But unfortunately, a lot of that produce doesn't make it into the city, right? It gets transported out for other markets. So we're really trying to build connections between residents in Rochester, students in Rochester School District, and fresh fruits and vegetables. We know that, we all need more of those, right? And so we want to make those opportunities part of the school day. We have really great gardens throughout the school district. We have some exciting greenhouses that have been built at different schools. I think we still have a lot of work to do to connect that. So Rochester is a high need district. We have a lot of superintendent turnover. It's difficult to sustain momentum and sort of unify all the different schools in the district around a certain initiative. So that's sort of one of our main projects right now is using the wellness task force and the local wellness policy as a space to convene people from across the district and try to get some shared language and some shared goals around increasing school gardens and increasing local procurement.

00:04:00 Michelle

Can you say a little more about that? Because I've often thought it's an unused tool. And the other side of it is I hear when we promote it, like in Oregon, we have model farm to school language to put into wellness policies that our Department of Education developed. And people say, oh, no one pays attention to the wellness policy. But I'm hearing from you that it sounds like it was really pivotal in bringing people together and having language.

00:04:27 Mike Bulger

So we've, like I said, we have a lot of superintendent turnover over the last decade or so in Rochester, a lot of leadership change. And there's a lot of different schools. They're very high need schools. The students have a lot of needs. There's a lot of things to address. And so it's very easy for our priorities around whole child health to sort of get lost in the shuffle. And so having a policy that we can point to, as something that schools are supposed to be accountable to, is a great tool for us to advocate. We also involve a lot of parent and student voice in our work, and... educating parents about the wellness policy sort of shows them what the school is supposed to be doing. So then if it's not happening at the building level and the parent hears about it, well, what is a parent going to do, right? They care about their kids and they turn into advocates. And we find that is one of the best ways to, you know, remind school staff and district staff of the importance of wellness policy for the kids.

00:05:34 Christy Sherding

So tell us, I don't think we asked this actually, what organization are you with and what brings you here?

00:05:41 Mike Bulger

Yes, so I work for an organization called Common Ground Health. We're a regional health planning and systems agency in the Finger Lakes region. We do a lot of incredible work around health data and convening stakeholders to come up with policy and systems change to promote health and reduce health disparities. And as part of that work, about a decade ago, the organization formed the Healthy Kids Coalition. And so this is an initiative that is a 90 plus person coalition with a strong contingent of about almost 30 parent leaders. And we really try to put the resident voice, the parent voice at the center of creating our work agenda, identifying issues, and importantly, identifying the solutions to those issues. Because it's really the people who live in neighborhoods, the people who have kids in the schools that we're trying to help that know what needs to be done.

00:06:44 Christy Sherding

Michelle and I are both parents, we're both moms. If I was to come to your organization and say I want to be a parent leader, what does that involve?

00:06:52 Mike Bulger

Yeah, so our parent leaders, we have quarterly coalition meetings.

Everybody in the, you know, coalition, the parents, the folks representing other community organizations, we have folks from the school district, folks from local government, we all meet quarterly. sort of get an update from the staff. We, get feedback on our direction. We usually have a little activity to work on to help us figure out how we're going to tackle the next challenge, that sort of thing. And then in between those quarterly meetings, we have a bunch of different work groups. So we have a healthy learning environments work group.

00:07:27 Christy Sherding

That's awesome.

00:07:27 Mike Bulger

We have a play rocks advocacy committee. Yeah, play rocks. Yeah. Well, play is, play is, we're talking about, we're talking about kids, right? Play is how kids… It's so underrated. I think it's how adults learn too, though.

00:07:44 Christy Sherding

If you really think about it, they just get a little embarrassed.

00:07:47 Mike Bulger

To say they're having fun. So we're trying to bring play back to like, you know, like the important central place that it needs to be. It's how we, you know, cooking is playful, right? It is, you know, eating can be playful. And so that's when kids are most open to trying new things and, you know, building those really important relationships. So, we have a play rocks committee. We have a we do a lot of work around built environment. We have a we have a food policy council as well. This is a little separate from our Healthy Kids Coalition, but the Healthy Kids Coalition staff helps administer the Food Policy Council in partnership.

00:08:25 Michelle

And this is for Rochester area. Wow, they have a food policy council?

00:08:28 Mike Bulger

Yeah, we started a few years ago. It's kind of like a passion project of mine for a long time. I wrote it down on a little sticky note when I first came back to Rochester and I put it on my computer.

00:08:39 Christy Sherding

Yes.

00:08:39 Mike Bulger

And it took a long time.

00:08:40 Christy Sherding

You manifested it. You manifested it though. I love that. I love that.

00:08:46 Michelle

It's so true.

00:08:49 Mike Bulger

So anyways, so you're a parent, right? And you're a part of the Healthy Kids Coalition. We also have a parent leader table and an executive committee. We are really serious about making the parents, we provide stipends, we provide transportation to meetings. We want the parents to be leading the work. Us as staff members, we're, you know, we're the car, they're the drivers.

00:09:17 Christy Sherding

That's a great analogy.

00:09:19 Michelle

I feel like the Henry Ford could like.

00:09:22 Christy Sherding

I love it.

00:09:22 Michelle

Trademark.

00:09:23 Christy Sherding

You got that trademark because they're going to take that. I might steal it.

00:09:27 Michelle

We call it R&D, rip off and duplicate.

00:09:30 Christy Sherding

I like that too.

00:09:31 Michelle

That's how we build our movement. So being from Rochester, you know, the garden component, can we dig into that a little bit more? I imagine a lot of the, you face a lot of the same challenges people do around one continual upkeep. And then also the biggest growing season being during the summer when school is not in session. And so, okay, there's always a million challenges aside, but like what's working?  Like what's something that's been working in that area?

00:10:05 Mike Bulger

So I'm really excited. You know, we have a career and technical education director in the district now who has really taken on gardens and provided some, you know, central resources. They contracted with a local community gardens organization called Taproot Collective, and they are delivering a series of professional development sessions throughout the year for school staff, teachers, to help them, you know, plan ahead for those types of those types of situations. You know, it really is a big issue in Rochester, you know, peak growing season is when school's out. So some school buildings have had success partnering with community members who live nearby or community organizations to help upkeep the garden. And then we also have a portion of our schools that stay open for summer instruction. So we have a really awesome school that has made the garden part of that summer instruction. And the kids who attend that program get to leave with produce at the end of the day. So it's a wonderful time.

00:11:17 Christy Sherding

That's amazing.

00:11:18 Michelle

I do love that. And Mike and I bonded a little. when my mom passed away, number 52 school started a school garden. And it was so neat because I was in Rochester and they had no idea like what I do or this is like my entire passion.

00:11:33 Christy Sherding

It's your jam.

00:11:33 Michelle

It's my jam. And so it was just so special to break ground, you know, with neighbors and friends and, you know, people who had been in the area.

00:11:42 Mike Bulger

Yeah, I think that's a big key. You know, our schools are situated in neighborhoods and if we can bring community into the school, and connect with the local neighbors that I think helps sort of, extend the life of a garden. If you have, someone taking care of it, doesn't become an eyesore or a drain on limited resources.

00:12:07 Michelle

That's why I say a garden is like, could be the worst thing for a school. People hate when I say that, but.

00:12:12 Christy Sherding

It depends on how much hands-on, right? I mean, it's they're a lot of work.

00:12:16 Michelle

Yeah, and it could look terrible. And then all of a sudden it's the front of the school and who's taking care of it?

00:12:21 Mike Bulger

And then somebody says, we shouldn't have any more gardens because that's what they all are going to look like.

00:12:27 Michelle

Fair enough.

00:12:28 Mike Bulger

Yeah. But you find a champion in the building who's going to take care of it, you know, maybe partner with a community organization.

00:12:35 Christy Sherding

And then that's a positive, right? 

They're like, they could all look like this.

00:12:39 Michelle

We lift up what works. And speaking of that, what's been working in, we just talked about the school side. So getting the food into nutrition services, what's been really working in that area?

00:12:51 Mike Bulger

So we have exciting prospects ahead We have a state program in New York State that provides additional reimbursement for schools that procure New York food.

00:13:04 Michelle

It's like 10 cents, right?

00:13:07 Mike Bulger

It's, my gosh, it is 25 cents.

00:13:11 Michelle

Wow, it's so big.

00:13:12 Mike Bulger

Yeah. And so our city school district has not participated in this at this point. When the program first rolled out a few years ago, the district was worried about, you know, they have to make those purchases, which might be more expensive, you know, they have to build in that system into their workflow and figure it all out and then hope that they meet the threshold and get the reimbursement. And it was a new program at the state level and our district just wasn't willing to take the lead. We as outside advocates were a little bit disappointed, but you know, we, you know, continue to work with them and continue to partner with them. And now we have a new superintendent who just came in this year, included from to school in a budget outline. We have a board member who is passionate about farm to school and we feel like, hey, this is it. The door is cracked open and we are going to, yep, walk right through. Exactly. We're going to use the wellness policy. We're going to get parent voice involved. We now have the food policy council that's very passionate about what kids are eating. So we are very hopeful that we're going to take some steps in the right direction. And I think really crucially too, New York State has technical assistance now. So the cooperative extension has staff members who can help a district figure it out, and I think that's going to be really helpful because, I think we have to be very respectful of our district in Rochester. They have a lot put on them. And so, to bring in a new system, they definitely need somebody to help, just with the time that it takes to figure it out. So we're really excited about the TA that's available.

00:14:52 Michelle

And something that's invisible in a lot of our work is how hard procurement is within schools. And that, think of all the things a school district buys from staples to desks to chairs, like all for the entire district, all the people that work there. And then you have food and they're handled completely different. And so what it often requires is folks who 90% of their job is one way, procurement this way, but food is different, and it's only 10% of their job, but it takes knowing the same amount. Just like you, Christy, saying, farm to school. 

00:15:36 Christy Sherding

20% of my job, but 80% of my day.

00:15:39 Michelle

Correct. And so that's the same with purchasing food. So asking a district to take on more and the penalties are big, right? It's not just like, oh, I procured that incorrectly. Like they actually can be fiscally responsible and they can be penalized for making a wrong procurement. And so I really appreciate the sensitivity towards that.  And then also like how important technical assistance is. Like in Oregon, we have the Oregon Farm to School Network that provides that. And it's made all the difference. We went from, you know, because in Oregon, you have to opt out of getting the funds, but you still have to do the paperwork and you still have to do that. 

00:16:19 Christy Sherding

Is it opposite then in Oregon than what he's saying it is in New York?

00:16:23 Mike Bulger

Sounds like it is. You have to opt out.

00:16:25 Christy Sherding

So it's an automatic in Oregon versus?

00:16:27 Michelle 

But you still have to do the paperwork and you still have to claim the reimbursement. So not everybody even takes advantage of it.

00:16:33 Christy Sherding

Interesting.

00:16:34 Michelle

So even with lowering the bar to that, there's still procurement challenges is kind of what I'm making the connection between.

00:16:44 Mike Bulger

Sure, I'm fascinated by this. So can you tell me more about Oregon system? So I'm a school district in Oregon. I'm procuring food.

00:16:52 Michelle

Yes.

00:16:52 Mike Bulger

You're saying that I have to submit how much is local, whether or not I'm trying to participate in the state reimbursement?

00:17:00 Michelle

No, just you would you would submit what you purchased local if you want to get reimbursed.

00:17:06 Mike Bulger

I see.

00:17:06 Christy Sherding

Yes, got it.

00:17:07 Mike Bulger

Yes. So then similar. Yes, then similar. Okay.

00:17:10 Michelle

Because we talked with New York, they call us. We're all trying to figure out how to evaluate so we share spreadsheets between states and we do a lot of R&D with each other.

00:17:19 Mike Bulger

I have a question. So, okay, so I heard years and years ago that Oregon didn't include dairy.

00:17:30 Michelle

Fluid milk.

00:17:31 Mike Bulger

They didn't include fluid milk.

00:17:37 Michelle

We're whispering. I'm focused on like, I wrote that policy. I wrote that legislation.

00:17:43 Christy Sherding

I'm watching it all go down.

00:17:44 Mike Bulger

So New York State is a big dairy state, right?

00:17:47 Michelle

We love dairy.

And our Oregon Dairy Nutrition Council has been like a champion for farm to school and a champion for all the foods on the tray. And here's the rationale. Schools are already required to purchase it. And so that's 25% of the food on the plate. And we use this, the legislator at the time, who's now our governor, Governor Kodak, was like, let's use supplanting. We, or yeah, supplanting. We don't want to supplant current purchases. We want to grow purchases.

00:18:18 Mike Bulger

Right.

00:18:18 Michelle

So they're already buying local milk. Let's celebrate that. Let's market that. Let's champion that. But they can also buy other products. So they buy cheese. They buy yogurt. They actually buy milk by the gallon, which is different because that's a new purchase.

00:18:33 Mike Bulger

I see.  Yeah, I find that very interesting. In New York, we are, we don't have a similar provision in our program. And for me, at the end of the day, I'm trying to, drive positive health outcomes and increase the amount of fruits and vegetables that kids eat and help them develop.

00:18:56 Michelle

What about an apple tree in every school in Rochester?

00:18:59 Mike Bulger

That'd be wonderful, but then you'd have the neighbors complaining about the falling apples and rats and these things and that thing. More cider. Yes, please. New York cider. But I think like that's an example though of you have those conversations, you build in a system so that it doesn't become an eyesore or a problem. You help people understand that the apple tree is probably not driving the rat population or you have something in there to like, you know, put them at ease, like we're on it. But that type of thing I think can be really crucial in Rochester almost half of our city school district students are living in poverty. And food insecurity is a major, major problem in Rochester neighborhoods. So having gardens that are accessible not just to a school or to the students there, but also to neighbors, I think can be a tremendous thing. It's a huge advantage.

00:20:01 Michelle

We love that.

00:20:02 Mike Bulger

We're taking a look at what more we can do with community gardens and school gardens to connect to neighbors who need food.

00:20:13 Christy Sherding

I love that part of your mission is being inclusive of the community and not just the sole focus on the students, but the parents and the staff and the educators, because it takes a village, right? Pun intended, Greenfield Village shout out. That's where I work.

00:20:30 Michelle

Way to go. Yeah, that was terrible. That's all right. I might have talked about Oregon in this episode. I don't know.So Mike, what is on your sticky note now for the future?

00:20:40 Christy Sherding

Oh, good question. 

00:20:44 Mike Bulger

That's a great question. I think on my sticky note is a dedicated food policy person in our municipal government. We have staff there. We have awesome staff who is with us and is working on a community food system plan that's going to come out in a few months. Super excited about that. We have city involvement in our food policy council. It's enshrined in legislation, so they participate. But it's food is central, right? Food is an essential service, right? We have people dedicated to our streets. We have people dedicated to our sewer systems. We have people dedicated to businesses. But food is right.

00:21:29 Christy Sherding

That's really well said. And it's a common language. Everyone understands food.

00:21:33 Mike Bulger

Yeah, and it touches so many policies and so many departments and so much of, you know, the mission of the city to serve the residents there and make it a great place to live and visit. So why aren't we spending more time? thinking about what more we can do and how to help everybody get equitable access to food that's quality, healthy, and gives them dignity and enjoyment.

00:22:07 Michelle

Mic drop.

00:22:08 Christy Sherding

Yep, I agree.

00:22:09 Mike Bulger

These look like expensive mics though, so I don't.

00:22:11 Michelle

We're not going to really drop them.

00:22:12 Christy Sherding

Oh no, Rick, we're not dropping the.

00:22:17 Michelle

Last question. You're here at the National Farm to Cafeteria Conference, 2025. I practice saying that. Thank you.What are you hoping to get from here or what have you already gotten in this space?

00:22:36 Mike Bulger

I'm hoping to learn. You know, Rochester is not a farm to school district yet. so many experts here, so many people who have done it, who have, met the challenges and figured out, how to overcome those challenges. So I'm trying to soak everything up like a sponge and bring it back and maybe project a little more confidence to our local community. Like, hey, this is completely doable. There's people to call if we need help.

00:23:06 Michelle

You got this. We're rooting for you.

00:23:08 Mike Bulger

Thank you.

00:23:10 Michelle

Thanks, Mike, for making time.

00:23:16 Rick

Hey, thanks everybody so much for listening today.

00:23:18 Michelle

And Mike, thanks for taking time out of the conference to have a conversation. I really appreciate it. And Christy Sherding from the Henry Ford, thank you so much for being our very special guest co-host.

00:23:30 Rick

Farm to School was written, directed, and produced by Rick Sherman and Michelle Markeston with production support from Leanne Locker and Lauren Tobey of Oregon State University.This podcast was made possible in part by a grant from the United States Department of Agriculture.

00:23:45 Michelle

The content and ideas of the Farm to School podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Oregon State University or the United States Department of Agriculture. Both the USDA and Oregon State University are equal opportunity providers and employers.

00:23:58 Rick

I wish we could learn more about Farm to School.

00:24:01 Michelle

Don't you? Me too. Check out our other episodes, show notes, contact information, and.

00:24:09 Rick

So much more.

00:24:10 Michelle

So much more. 

Meet lots of amazing people at the Farmer School Podcast OSU.Just Google it up.

00:24:16 Rick

Google it up. We'd love to hear from you. Stop by that website and say hello and give us an idea for a future podcast. Thanks everybody.