Maximum Mileage Running Podcast

#18 Nick Hancock... Meet our very own Head Coach!

• Nick Hancock • Season 1 • Episode 18

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In an episode that tugs pretty hard on the heartstrings, Faye interviews Nick Hancock, founder and Head Coach at Maximum Mileage

Key Moments:

  • Nick shares how running literally saved his life during a period of severe depression and suicidal thoughts. Running gave him a purpose and outlet when he desperately needed it.
  • Nick talks about his wife Alyson's stage 4 cancer diagnosis and how they are trying to live life to the fullest, despite the challenges. Running continues to provide an important mental health outlet for Nick.
  • We learn how Nick went from being a running "geek" and improving his own race times, to deciding to become a running coach and start Maximum Mileage. He saw a need for better communication and service from coaches.

Best Quotes:

  • "Suicide is just such a selfish act. I think that's certainly the way I look at it now."
  • "If you can't look after yourself, you can't look after your family."
  • "I run for mind, my ass just follows." - On why he runs primarily for his mental health.
  • "Not all heroes wear capes, some wear running trainers."




Thanks for being part of our running community. Keep clocking those miles, keep pushing your limits, and above all, keep finding joy in the run. See you on the next episode of Maximum Mileage Running Podcast!


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SPEAKER_00:

Hey trailblazers and tarmac tacklers, welcome back to the Maximum Mileage Running Podcast and I am your host, Nick Hancock.

SPEAKER_03:

And I am your co-host, Faye Johnson.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi Faye, how are you?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm alright, how are you Nick?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm not too bad thank you, not too bad. Glad it's, again, recording on a Friday even though this goes out on a Thursday, I'm glad it's the end of the week because that means it's the weekend to do lots of nice running related things, although I'm not doing a lot of running or racing or anything at the moment. How's your running going?

SPEAKER_03:

My running is going all right. I have two weeks until the rescheduled winter trail half, which is on the 7th of October. It is probably one of my favorite races. I've

SPEAKER_01:

done it about,

SPEAKER_03:

I've lost track, but probably nearly 10 times, but I love it. And quite excited for the fact that it's in October, not January. So I'm It'll be, it probably won't be as cold, but equally it's just a beautiful spot and it's just so nice to run there. So

SPEAKER_00:

where is it?

SPEAKER_03:

It's Coyde Brennan Forest in South Snowdonia. And if anyone has not been, you should go. But yeah, it's a Run Coyde Brennan event and one of many that Matt puts on, but they're fantastic events. And for anyone new to trail running, experienced, you get something out of it to be fair. And I've been going up there for, Oh, nearly 10 years now. So yeah, one of my favorite places to go. So I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_00:

Nice. Yeah, you're running well. I'm still your coach, even though you're coached on here and I've got my coach and we believe in coaching so much that we have our own coaches and all that. And yeah, you're running well. Your training's going well. The boxes are always green with you. What did I give you this week in terms of your training?

SPEAKER_03:

I had my reps on Monday on the trail to try and replicate the race, and then a couple of nice foundation runs in the week, which is always nice because it feels less stressful. And then today I had long hill reps, so six-minute hills.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you been out and done them yet?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, done those.

SPEAKER_00:

Ah, the box is green now. I hadn't refreshed my screen. Yeah, if

SPEAKER_03:

Faye's not done it by lunchtime, she's probably not doing it.

SPEAKER_00:

I've noticed that. Yeah, you are. Fair play, you're an early bird. You are an early bird with your training. So, yeah, good.

SPEAKER_03:

Good, good. And how about you, Nick? How's the recovery from the hernia?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, yes, at time of recording, yes, I am still in hernia recovery mode. I've had surgery on Tuesday last week. And since I've had the surgery, I was really patient up until the surgery. And since I've had the surgery, I feel like I've just been really impatient. So what, we're 10 days past surgery now, and I'm like itching, itching. I'm like, my number came through for the Cardiff Half Marathon, which is on the 1st of October, which is next weekend. And I seriously am looking at that race number and giving it consideration.

SPEAKER_03:

And I've told you not to.

SPEAKER_00:

I won't. I won't. I am not that silly. You can

SPEAKER_03:

go and watch. And that's it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm definitely going to go and watch because I've got three people that I coach running it. So no, for me, it's all about hernia recovery. I did go on Zwift yesterday on the bike for 30 minutes, dead easy, just pedaled, pedaled over. I was actually chatting with, I had a catch up with one of my athletes whilst I was on the bike. It was that easy. You know, I wasn't huffing and puffing down the phone, which was really nice. So came out of that unscathed and pretty happy. So yeah. I will just remain patient and I'm going to start doing some structured cycling training next week, as in get back to my normal six days a week of training, but it'll just be six easy cycles next week, like, you know, 30, 40 minutes tops. And then, and then the week after I'll sort of assess where I'm at. And then I might add in like a session, like a Zwift hard session. session just to see how that goes you know i just want to build fitness because i would have lost some i haven't really run or done anything for a little while because of the hernia i kept cycling but my watch hates me you know i've gone from vo2 max 58 to 51 apparently

SPEAKER_03:

those watches are killer confidence

SPEAKER_00:

oh well yeah it's all a load of anyway and you know anybody who who knows me and anybody who uh who coaches who's coached by me will know that I tell them to ignore all that sort of stuff sometimes though you can't help but look at it and go oh fuck off Garmin

SPEAKER_03:

yeah I don't use Garmin so I don't have that that that torture so yeah my watch doesn't tell me that

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah should we do some quick shout outs for our athletes because we've got some big stuff going on this weekend do you want to go first

SPEAKER_03:

absolutely yes so I have one of my athletes running this weekend and it's Georgie Abrook. And Georgie's been with me since the beginning of the summer and has done some fantastic training. Really good. But unfortunately, in the last couple of weeks, has had a bit of a flare up with an injury. So we've had to kind of reassess her race plan. But she is running and she's chuffed. You know, it's great. She's excited. And she's doing Berlin Marathon on Sunday,

SPEAKER_01:

which

SPEAKER_03:

is an iconic race. Very exciting. There'll be lots of fantastic events. you know elite runners on the start line which would be amazing to see so yeah all the best to Georgie for Sunday

SPEAKER_00:

yeah very good yeah I'm predicting that the both world records are going to go male and female

SPEAKER_03:

yes

SPEAKER_00:

yeah I don't think Elliot's going to do it though I think it's going to be and I forgot his name but the

SPEAKER_03:

grey yeah

SPEAKER_00:

yeah we'll see So I've got, and I can't lay claim to this because he's only just, just, just started with me, but I do coach a world level triathlete. He's just joined me to start training for the Dragons back next year, but I'm going to give him a shout out because he's doing the World Triathlon Championships this weekend in his age group in Spain. So good luck to Simon Nicol. I've got Bex Dunn, who has been with me for... nearly two and a half years now and this is the third time she's doing the North Norfolk Coastal Trail Half Marathon. It was her first ever trail half marathon and you know the first year she did it and then last year she beat previous years and she'll beat this year's previous years again so she you know she continues to improve and do some really good stuff so good luck to Bex. Then I've got Sean Rafferty who a Another one that's been with me for ages, nearly two years, me and Sean have worked together. He is doing the Scottish half marathon. He's actually returning from a pelvic fracture. Yeah, he took a bit of time out because of that, but he's getting right back to form now. And I think he's probably going to do a half marathon PB. So good luck to Sean. And then I've got Daryl, who is quite new with me. Only two months, I think, Daryl's been with me. He's also the guy who makes the Ogoku... hats he's the ceo of goku hats which we'll talk about in a minute and he is doing the tring 50k so good luck to daryl good luck to all our athletes always good and then this is my 5k time trials and park runs going on which i which i love as well

SPEAKER_03:

yeah good luck everyone

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so just a quick shout out to our partners thank you to runderwear talk Proteinworks, Ugoku Projects and True Start Coffee for supporting us. We love you. And if anybody is interested in getting discount with any of those and also getting their hands on a load of our content to help you with your running, we have a Patreon membership, which is has got a whole bunch of stuff. I've been uploading so much great stuff in there to help you with your fueling, your nutrition, your strength, your running, your marathons, ultra marathons. Faye's got content in there around women's health in sport. And there's all sorts of amazing stuff, including those discounts. And for just$4.99 a month, you'll make that back just by getting a discount with one of our partners. So please do join the Patreon membership. Just search Maximum Mileage on Patreon. So, today's episode is about me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, all about Nick today.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not shitting myself at all.

SPEAKER_03:

Brilliant. Yes, absolutely. So, I am going to interview you, Nick, and we're going to find out a little bit about you, your I'm going to use the term running journey and basically, you know, how and why maximum mileage came about. So I know that we often start with the why question, but I'm going to word it slightly differently

SPEAKER_01:

in

SPEAKER_03:

the sense of why running in the first place? What was it that got you lacing up a pair of trainers in the first place?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so the short answer to that, one word answer, is suicide. So just to sort of give you a bit of a back history, I worked in hospitality for a very long time. I was in the industry from the age of 17. I was a really, really, really sporty kid. Should have played cricket at a very high level. Me and a guy called Mark Wallace sort of came up through the ranks and played first team cricket until we were sort of 16. Around the age of 16, I was a very fast bowler. Mark Wallace went on to be the captain of Glamorgan and I think he even won a few England caps. So yeah, I should have kind of gone that way. But alas, I fell into a Saturday job in hospitality and started smoking at the age of 16, by the age of 17. Yeah, I moved to Bristol when I was 17 and I was among bartenders and quite honestly, lots of drugs and lots of drink. And I lived above the bar I was at with six other bartenders and I smoked a lot. So yeah, my entire sort of sporting history went out the window. And yeah, sort of fast forward till about 2014. I was trying to think of this earlier, actually. I think it's 2014. I had worked... I'd been abroad, which is where I met Alison, my wife in Dubai. We got back and we came back and we were both working, still working in hospitality together. We ran a couple of very nice country pubs together, which soon stopped because working together as a married couple was a nightmare. And I went my separate way then. So I started working for Jamie Oliver. I ran his most high profile restaurant in Bath, most high profile one, certainly in the UK, outside of London, because it was right next to the head office as well. The UK, in fact, the global head office. So I used to have all the CEOs and he'd be in there and I'm happy. So yeah, that was hard, really hard working for Jamie Oliver. He's a really cheeky chappy on the screen. He's an arsehole in person. He's a hard guy to work for. And then I sort of spent then a couple of years of just bouncing between different hospitality operations roles because I just kept going, well, I can't do 80 hours a week anymore. I'm knackered. I was going to find another company who then promised you, ah, you won't do 80 hours a week here. And I think back on it and maybe I was the problem. And that's me being honest. Hospitality is a tough gig, but also me being me, I want to I always do the best job and I probably put myself in those positions to be there too much, too often. I'd be there sometimes cashing out at three, four in the morning and then back in the restaurant at eight, nine in the morning on six days in a row, 15 days in a row, 30 days in a row sometimes. It was a tough industry to be in. So yeah, they got to a point where I almost took my life. I was on the way home one day and I took my seatbelt off and almost drove into an oncoming car. I had a moment of, I think clarity is probably the best word to use right now, but I decided not to drive into that person because that was really unfair on them and their family. And then obviously, you know, it was all just really unfair on Alison and my family. And I thought afterwards, you know, suicide is just such a selfish act. I think that certainly that's the way I look at it. I think probably some people would disagree, but I went to see the doctor. was kind of the best help that was available at the time i think mental health has come on a long way since then you know even just 2014 you know it's only nine years ago yeah a lot has

SPEAKER_03:

changed in the last 10 years yeah

SPEAKER_00:

yeah the other doctor he was very good but you know he did what doctors do back then and gave me antidepressants and i got home and i remember sitting there at the end of the bed that afternoon going i either had my Marlboro Reds. I used to smoke Marlboro Reds in one hand and the antidepressants in the other hand. And I was like, how the fuck have I got here? And I just had sort of a moment of fuck this. And the other part of the issue at the time was I had a boss who was just she was a nightmare, absolute nightmare. the only times I did take off, that's when she would call me to say, oh, you know, such and such is going on. You know, where are you? What's going on? And I just, you know, I never felt like I could take any time off. So anyway, so I called her and I said, fuck you. I'm not coming in tomorrow. I was very lucky to get another job very quickly in recruitment. I know recruitment is a hard job as well, but it was, you know, it was nine to five. I worked for a lovely company, but I decided instead of taking antidepressants and smoking cigarettes, that I thought I should probably do something for my physical health. And I decided to chuck a pair of trainers on and shorts and T-shirt. And when I say a pair of trainers, I'm talking about a pair of Adidas Sambas, fashion shoes. That's all I had to you know, that resembled a running shoe at the time. So I went out, did a little run. I think it was like 0.4 of a mile. And I was like, yeah, I need to get some proper shoes. So I went to, I think it was Sports Direct. And I thought, is it Caramore? The Caramore brand? Shoes weighed a ton.

SPEAKER_01:

But they

SPEAKER_00:

were cheap. And I thought, well, you know, I don't want to commit to anything bigger than this. And I used to live right next to some woods called Hodgemore Woods in Buckinghamshire. And I... I used to take my dogs running around the woods, you know, and it just kind of snowballed from there. And yeah, and I just, it was kind of, I don't know, running was the first thing that came to my head. It wasn't, oh, I'll get a bike or I'll go skiing or I don't know, just, you know, swimming. I don't know. It just felt like running was the easiest thing I could do because I literally, I remember I called my boss. I went, fuck you, I'm not coming in tomorrow. And a couple of hours later, I was like, I should probably sort my physical health out as well. What can I do? And I went, I can go for a run. That's easy. And I never thought of anything else. And I never have done. People ask me all the time, are you going to do an Ironman? No. No desire.

SPEAKER_03:

I suppose what's beautiful about running is the simplicity. And when you're in a complicated, overwhelming situation, the idea of putting on a pair of trainers and just taking yourself out of that space is incredibly powerful. And I think... that is probably why you went for that because it's literally, let's get myself outside and see how far I can go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it helped that day. It was a nice sunny day. I remember it being just a gorgeous day and the field I sort of ran around. It was about the size of a football pitch, but it was actually a horse's paddock.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It was nice. The horse was there and The ground was hard and dry and stuff, and it just kind of made sense.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

There was no thought process about it, really. It was just, I've got to do something for my health. I'll go for a run. That was it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank goodness you found running in that way, and that was literally that first– 0.4 of a mile that you ran was the start of something for you. I mean, to go from that point with your Carrymore trainers from Sports Direct to, I suppose, deciding that you wanted to do a race, you know, that's quite a different, that's a step for anyone. How did you go from that point of just running to improve your physical health to deciding I'd like to do a race? I'd like to be more serious about this running?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it wasn't, It wasn't sort of quite as straightforward as, do you want to fancy doing a race? Somebody just told me about something called Parkrun.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And I was like, what the hell is Parkrun?

SPEAKER_03:

They

SPEAKER_00:

said, well, it's a free thing. Every Saturday, people just run around the park five kilometers. I was like, oh, okay. I've done a couple of five kilometer runs now. So I could probably go and do that. And it was Black Park, Parkrun, my first one. I Googled it, you know, Just looked it up on the website. That was the closest one and a beautiful one. Oh my God. I mean, it has got to be one of the most beautiful ones in the country through Black Park, just north of Slough. Slough isn't beautiful, but yeah, just a beautiful place. I think they filmed parts of Harry Potter and Casino Royale or one of the Bond movies in there. It's around the corner from whatever the name of the studio is. Anyway, so yeah, I went down there one Saturday, got asked about my barcode. I was like, what barcode? What's that? What do you barcode for? So my actual first ever park run, I think it was about 34, 35 minutes. And it was hard. That was hard. I really ran like I could tell everybody was like properly racing. And I started way at the back. I've still got a photo because it was a massive field as well. Black Park is really popular, like 600 people. I was like, whoa, this is proper daunting. So I started right at the back. Didn't have a barcode, so I don't actually have a record of that first park run time. I didn't even have Strava at that time, so no record of it. All I know is that I got to the end and somebody said, oh, that was about 34 minutes. So yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And yeah, so went back a few weeks later, you know, went off, did a bit more running, you know, sort of went back three, four, five weeks later, I think it was, with a barcode this time, laminated. Off course. God, laminate. Got to laminate. I mean, I've got a wrist barcode now.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm still on laminated barcodes. I'm on my last one of six that hasn't been solved by the washing machine.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yeah, I went back a few weeks later. I think I did it in, I think it was 26 or 27 minutes. And I was, oh, that's 10 minutes quicker than last time. And somebody went, oh, you got a PB. I was like, what the fuck's a PB?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And they said, you got a personal best. You beat your best time from last time. And I was like, oh, that's exciting. I wonder if I could do that next week. So I did. I went next week. And then it became sort of a regular Saturday thing. And the PBs kept on coming. And yeah, I think I sort of then had it in my head because I went from 26 minutes to 24 minutes to 23, 22, and then a whole bunch of 21s. And then I started getting into the 20s. And I was like, right. Now I want sub 20 and I keep learning about these terms like sub this and all that. And yeah, eventually I think I got down to maybe 1940 something. I think it was. And I came second in, you know, among 650 people. So, so yeah, it was at that point I thought, well, I'm smashing park run. It's I've got to be ready for a marathon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I did

SPEAKER_00:

do a half marathon, maybe two half marathons before I did the Brighton marathon, but I went into the Brighton marathon totally clueless. I did my first two half marathons, I think. I think it was two half marathons. It was Dorney Lake and then Thorpe Park, which was not in the theme park. I was very disappointed about that. It started in the car park of the theme park, but it didn't go through. Yeah, it went through the country lanes, even though they had the medal, which I've still got. There's a great medal, but it was- Got a

SPEAKER_03:

roller coaster on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's all roller coaster and everything. Yeah, anyway. So yeah, I got like a 140, 144, and then a 138. for my first half marathons. And then I went to the Brighton Marathon. It was absolutely boiling. Alison was pregnant with Max, like really pregnant. She nearly gave birth. Oh my goodness. Waiting for me to cross the finish line because I called her at 30k crying. I can't fucking do this. This is bullshit. I was broken, totally broken. It was so hot that day. There were people dropping left, right and centre. They ran out of water at one point. Yeah, it was boiling. I think I managed to drag my ass around in about 4.19, I think it was, something like that. Gone were my grandeur delusions of 3.30. I was running with a mate who was a 3.30. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll run with you. I can do it in 3.30. My training was shit. I didn't do anywhere near enough or structured enough. So anyway, it was at that point that... Thus I thought, well, do you know what? I really love this running stuff, so I'm going to learn about it. And for those of you watching the podcast, you can see a lot of these books and there's a whole cupboard downstairs and then a Kindle full of running books. That was kind of the start of me becoming a total running nerd.

SPEAKER_03:

No, that's, I mean, that's great. And it's also really nice that you did take that step into parkrun. Because it's got that social element and that degree of encouragement as well. So that person turning around to you and saying, oh, you've got PB and being really excited and, you know, enthusiastic and kind of kickstarting that, you know, journey to the marathon. Because after a 5k, we're totally, you know, but it is that thing, isn't it? It's that you feel like you've run that distance and it's like, could do anything now I think running has this this power over you where you go do you know what I could do that I could do that that that marathon I've only run 10k but or 5k but I could so do that

SPEAKER_00:

yeah not all heroes wear capes some wear running trainers so you feel you feel like a superhero don't you

SPEAKER_03:

you do you absolutely do you cross that line of the run the park run the whatever it is and you do you feel like you can take on anything which I think is what's great about running

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I was just going to say, like, yeah, and just massive shout out to, you know, I can't remember the guy's name that invented parkrun, but, you know, I think parkrun just, it has that effect on people's lives. You know, I know so many people who, that's where they start. And actually, that's why, even though, you know, my bag now is marathons and ultra marathons, I still love parkrun. I do. Yeah. I still love it. I don't do it anywhere near as much as I want to, just because I need to, Because I do long stuff, I need to manage that sort of intensity and volume load. But I do love it. And, you know, I love using parkruns as a way of getting people I coach to do time trials. And I know you love parkrun. You're there almost every week, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03:

I will say, yes. Especially since we got our own park run here in Monmouth. But I was quite adverse to it to start with. I didn't do, not because it's not great, because I was quite intimidated by the whole process. One, I hate 5Ks. And two, I was like, oh, no, I don't want to go and run with other people on a Saturday morning as fast as I can. And didn't do until 2019. So I was quite late to the party. But now I'm 100% converted. So, yeah. absolutely but coming back to your point about balancing training and you know work life family when you are training for your longer races how how do you schedule that how does your how do you schedule those training miles with your kids with allison and everything else that's going on how do you work that

SPEAKER_00:

so i'm i get pretty clear about when i can run because you know i i I always laugh when I see people say, oh, I haven't got time to exercise, just in general, given all the things I've got going on in my life with running a coaching business, being a dad of a six-year-old and a three-year-old and all the stuff that comes with that and the things that Alison is going through, which I'm sure we'll talk about in a minute. I always look at people and go, if I can find time in my life to train like I do, because I train six days a week, sometimes twice a day on, you know, if I've got a run and a lifting session, then actually if I'm in marathon and ultra marathon specific weeks, I'll sometimes run twice a day on certain days. Now that isn't easy. I, you know, there's the time element where I get really specific about when I'm running. I've got the support of Alison and I think that's really important for anybody sort of wondering, well, you know, I want to run more because whilst we need to balance it with our lives and busyness and all that kind of stuff, running more is going to get you better to a point. And having a supportive person in your life is absolutely paramount to that. There's no way I could train as much as I do without Alison's support. Now, that's not to mean that I'm out of the house all the time and I know I never see them. I still get loads of family time.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I do run at lunchtimes mostly. So it doesn't kind of affect during the week anyway. And then I take Max to Taekwondo and swimming on a Wednesday. They're like literally one after the other. So I can run while he's in Taekwondo because parents aren't allowed in the sports hall anyway. So that's an hour where I can go and bash out a good session and usually speed work because it's right next to a running track as well. So that's quite handy. So it's about being quite clear about, right, when do I want to run? That's where I, when I sort of plan out my training over the coming months, I sit down and go, right, when do I want to run? And when can I run in those times where I want to run? And ideally, I try and take Sundays off now. So that is a total clear family day, totally focused on them. And then, you know, evenings, if I don't train on an evening, all I'll do is sit there and tit about on Instagram or play Call of Duty. So, yeah. why waste my time sat around doing bugger all when I could be training? Because I spend most of my day sat down anyway, because I'm doing training plans and analyzing things and what have you. So yeah, no, for me, it's about planning, proper planning and having that support network that allows me to be able to do it. And also just the mindset that if I don't run, because it is such an important part of my mental health, I've been going mad over the last few weeks without being able to run, you know, because it's a big part of my mental health is, you know, putting myself first and being a little bit selfish about that. I think you've got to be, there's that old saying, isn't there? Put your own oxygen mask on first. And you've got to do that. Anybody who goes, no, no, no, no, family, family first, family first, I can't run. No, bollocks. If you can't look after yourself, you can't look after your family. You can't. And actually, I think because of my, desire to want to do well with my running. And I like being competitive and whatever it means to anybody else. But for me, I like to be competitive and see how far I can push myself. Actually, I am seeing that rubbing off on Max, particularly. Maz isn't old enough yet, but Max, he wants to be sporty and do well at things, but also with the underlying tone of not putting too much pressure on himself because it's not always about coming first.

SPEAKER_03:

No, totally. And he's doing, he's loving his, his races. I've seen him run a couple of the kids races at local events and he's had a fantastic time. And I think, oh, instilling, you know, instilling activity, sport exercise into the younger generation is, so so valuable and it is I mean I go as one of those people who went through school being I'll do that I'll do that I'll do that I was never the best but I was willing to try it and give it a go and I think that's one of the best things you can give a child is that you know that key to sport and exercise and how powerful it can be so I think it's lovely really really good I just wanted to you know you mentioned balancing life and training and You know, the challenges that come with that, but you've obviously had quite significant challenges in the last few years with Alison's health. And, you know, that has been a huge, had a huge impact on all of you as a family. And, you know, how have you found that has affected you in how you've approached, I mean, yeah, life, but also how you've approached your running and use that to help you get through that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's been tough. In March of 2022, Alison was diagnosed with breast cancer. And actually at the time when she got diagnosed, I went into this, I'm going to fix everybody's health problems. And I started trying to become a PT for about six weeks that lasted. Yeah, I was like, I'm going to, My whole thing is going to be about getting parents healthy because I think that's maybe the dad in me where I've got to fix things and trying to fix everybody's health and hers. Anyway, back to properly running coaching. Yeah, it's been really tough because the first few weeks for a start were just so hard. She, you know, by her own admission, she barely came out of the bedroom. She didn't want to do anything at all. There was a point where I almost thought she'd given up already. And every day felt like a week because we were just waiting to start treatment, waiting to hear, almost like, you know, there was good news coming. Anyway, after three weeks, she finally, I think it was three weeks, she started chemo and that was a massive, turning point. It was almost like as soon as the needle of the cannula went in her hand and that chemo drug started going in her, her entire attitude changed. She literally went from couldn't get out of bed, and I'm not kidding, I had to beg her to get out of bed on the first day of her chemo to go and have it. And she got there. She was just so frightened. Anyway, so yeah, she went through the chemo. Then she had surgery to remove the right breast. She had a right breast mastectomy, which all went as well as something like that could go. Her tumour went from six and a half centimetres to four millimetres. So she reacted so well to the treatment. But also she threw everything at it in terms of we got her an oncology nutritionist and tried using food to help combat it. And actually, it was in a really weird way, and we say this to each other, that last year, whilst we had that horrible news, we had a really good year. I mean, it was my 40th birthday last year, and she threw me the most amazing party in our garden. We had friends and family around, just awesome. And we did some really good stuff. And then she had radiotherapy. on the breast and then all she then had from October onwards. And she got to ring the bell in October to signify the end of treatment. But all she had then left were just this three weekly injection, which was supposed to end in May. And then in March of this year, she started getting some headaches. She just went for like four days where she'd had headaches, really. And then there was one evening she got up to go out to bed. We were just sat down and she said, no, I can't see anything. I've just gone, you know, everything's just gone sort of really blurry and blotchy. And so I helped her get to bed and then she woke up the next day and it's fine. But anyway, she met with her oncologist and just sort of mentioned in passing, it was just, you know, just a general catch up with the oncologist. And she just mentioned to the oncologist about these headaches and this blurry thing. And she said, oh, well, let's get you an MRI. It's probably nothing. You know, you probably just, you've just got fatigue that's built up over all the time you've been on treatment and the injection and, and all of that. So it's probably nothing to worry about. And then the next day I was, I was actually in Abergavenny. I was on the top of the Sugarloaf with my mate, Ryan, who you've been chatting with on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. I was here on the top of the Sugarloaf and Alison said, was calling me and I answered the phone and she...

SPEAKER_03:

Don't apologise.

SPEAKER_00:

She said it's in my brain. So I'm going to try not to cry on this. I'm going to try not to cry. But yeah, she said it's in my brain. And I just dropped to my knees and my mate Ryan said, you need to get up. Let's get you home safely, which I wasn't listening to him because I've never run so fast down a mountain. in my life. Remy Bonnet's Pike's Peak would have gone that day, I'm telling you. So yeah, I got myself home and yeah, we are now dealing with her with stage four brain metastases. It hasn't gone anywhere else. On a positive note, she is doing quite well. We've had two update scans since and both scans have showed that the drug she's on is working and the tumours are shrinking. And even some of them are disappearing, which is really good. So it's positive at the moment and she's well and I can hear her downstairs doing her Friday clean. And yeah, we're trying to live life to the max now is kind of our attitude. There are days where it's really hard, but there's also days, lots of days where it's really good. And yeah, like I say, we're trying to live life to the max and And then to answer the question around where running fits into that, it's been, again, it's just been so important to me to keep myself in good shape because hopefully not for a long time, but at some point I am faced with the fact that it might not be me and Alison with the boys anymore. It might just be me. So I've got to keep myself healthy. I've got to.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. And like you said before, you're setting the best example for those boys. And, you know, you, both you and Alison astound me with how you are approaching this. And like you say, Alison is going at this with, you know, both of you with huge amounts of positivity despite the diagnosis. And I think, yeah, you're both doing so well. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No, she is. She's absolutely smashing it. She is. And yeah. Yeah, when she got diagnosed, I had a sort of moment of, you only live once, so I bought a camper van. And since then, we've absolutely fallen in love with van life to the point where we're now upgrading to, not upgrading, but upsizing to a bigger one so we can do trips to the Alps and the Dolomites. And hopefully next year, if I get into UTMB, we're going to go over to the Alps and spend three or four weeks there and you know, in the van and yeah, we're, yeah, we are trying to live life to the backs. That's, that's all you can do. I think that's, I think, you know, we get so caught up in the hubbub of, of life that it only, it only, it's only when a, you know, tragic situation like this comes along that you think, fuck, life is, is fragile. It's short. It could change like, like that. And yeah, And that's sort of part of my running philosophy for me personally, whilst I want to be competitive and I'm hoping to get an England Masters marathon jersey at some point. When I do the Manchester marathon, I get the qualifying time next spring. I've got Lakeland 50 then in the summer, which I'd quite like to get a top five finish at. But ultimately, with all of that, I still run for my mind. My ass just follows.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. And that's just, you know, shows, yeah, what you've said, how powerful running is and how fantastic it is. And yeah, just brilliant. Let's talk about maximum mileage because, you know, it's one thing to run and love running and compete and love it. But to take that decision to coach is a different, different ballgame. I love the fact that I started training as a PT and then was like, nah, I've done it for 15 years. I know it's challenging. I'm not going to lie.

SPEAKER_00:

Weight loss clients are a fucking nightmare.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I'm more selective in my later years now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. I don't do people who come to me specifically asking, can you help me lose weight? I don't do that anymore. That was a mistake. Do you know what? That was a mistake for me. There are some people that are amazing at it. I've got friends. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

In fact, I coach a few. pts or have coached a few pts who who specialize in they're very good at it and they love it it just was not for me

SPEAKER_03:

for me either no but yeah coaching what made you what made what you know we sat there and thought i know i'm gonna be a running coach where did that start

SPEAKER_00:

well like i said earlier i became a bit of a running geek i you know i i learned as much as i possibly could about running in you know to help my own running that was only reason it started really and plus i'm just kind of interested in in the science i'm not a scientist i don't have a degree in you know sports science or anything like that which you do see a lot of coaches not all in fact on the episode i did with rick prince the coach who wrote the running certification is not an academic she's just a an olympic level runner and coach herself so you don't have to be a scientist but i i'm super super into the science and So that was kind of the start of it. And then in between my hospitality operations career, and actually during my operations career, and sort of now as a running coach, my profession has been learning and development, talent development, training and development. My most recent full-time job was head of talent development. So I kind of have always had, I think, an innate and ingrained love of developing people. And I just have It's just always been that way, whether it was training a waiter to be a good waiter or a bartender to be a good bartender or a manager to be a good manager. And then in some of the organizations I've worked in, in my corporate roles, just always loved seeing people develop. But then also the third part of it was I have had several coaches. Some have been amazing. A guy called Mike Tate, I'll give him a shout out. I think he's on the board of... Welsh triathlon. He was fantastic, loved working with Mike. In fact, he was my last coach that I worked with. Before I said to him, look, I'm going to become a coach myself. It sort of feels natural to break away from you. But he continued to kind of mentor me and I would ask him things and stuff. So a big shout out to Mike. But yeah, I'd had other coaches who weren't so good and I won't call out any names because I don't want to get into... any fights. But I'd also just, you know, as I sort of got ingrained in the running community, particularly, you know, with knowing people who had coaches and you'd hear feedback from people, particularly around the communication side. And it just surprised me how many people, including myself, felt like Communication was an issue with their coach, as in, you know, I'd hear people going, in fact, I've had somebody come to me very recently saying, I've been coached by somebody for, you know, just over two years now. And it's almost like she's disappeared off the planet. I haven't heard from her for two months. And I'm like, what? Just nothing. It's like, you know, she still puts my plan in training peaks, but I don't hear from her. No feedback, no analysis, no, how are you? No, how was that session? No, you know, we've got this race coming up. I want you to pay attention to this. All of that. And I just felt like perhaps there was, certainly I thought there was a gap in the market for a coach to help non-pro athletes, but they got a professional service. They got a pro level service. And that's what kind of got me thinking, well, I love helping people develop. I love running. I now know a lot about it. Maybe I could become a coach. and be a good one, particularly communicative and personable and be able to relate to people. So hence, I thought, well, let's do my qualifications. I became a leader in running fitness through UK Athletics with my running club, and I immediately enrolled on the coach in running fitness. I paid for that myself. And yeah, I thought, well, let's start coaching some friends. So I coached my brother in law, a 19 stone rugby player. from i think it was a 49 minute 10k which is still pretty quick for a yeah for a bloke that size

SPEAKER_02:

absolutely

SPEAKER_00:

yeah professional uh rugby player um 19 stone forward uh got him down to 43 minutes i was like right okay and then and a few other people's like okay so what i do is working and i decided to let's maybe start it up as a as a business you know charge people some money and maybe it'll help me buy some trainers because Alison used to moan at me every time I buy a pair of trainers. Oh, what are you fucking buying more trainers for? What's this for now? What's this ultra running vest thing all about? What's this coming in the post? And so I was, oh, I'm sick of being moaned at. So I'll see if I can make enough money from coaching just to be able to pay for race fees and pay for shoes and and things like that. But yeah, and then when I decided to set up the business and I was thinking, what shall I call it? Well, my sons are called Max and Miles. And after about a week of racking my brain, I sat there at the breakfast table one day and I just looked at the both and I went, oh my God, Max, Miles, maximum mileage. Yes. And that was it. And that's how maximum mileage came about. There was no, I literally jumped online straight away and I made a logo and everything. The logo that you see today is still the logo that I made myself and set the brand guidelines and just threw absolutely everything into it. And going back to my point around communication, that's kind of one of my biggest things that I feel I excel in is that communication piece. And you experienced it as an athlete before I asked you to become a coach at Maximum Mileage. Yeah. I touch points with every one of my athletes every single week without fail. Without fail. There is always a touch point, even if it's just a, how are you? How are you feeling? How's training been this week? At a bare minimum. But even that's not enough for me. I sit and I analyze and I really pride myself on being able to take the data from people's running and contextualize that alongside their subjective feedback and actually put that into actionable points to make them better runners. And, you know, I'm really proud of where I've got maximum and minus to.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. And so you should be. I mean, yeah, where you've taken it in, you know, a relatively short space of time, really.

SPEAKER_00:

Coming up to three years.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. And that, you know, where it is today is, yeah, fantastic. phenomenal i around the communication thing i remember when i first started with you i'd message you and i go i'm so sorry for bothering you i'm so sorry for bothering because i hate pestering people and you were like you're not pestering me you're not bothering me and for me being someone that likes to ask questions and get that feedback that was a a great thing and yeah definitely can be a testament to that so

SPEAKER_00:

yeah no i say to i say to all my athletes all the time and i particularly when people are new with me and they go, oh, sorry, can I just ask a question? I'm like, please don't say sorry. The more you ask, the more you get out of your coaching, the more you pester me. I want to be pestered. That was another thing with coaches. I find it bizarre that coaches will charge extra money

SPEAKER_01:

to

SPEAKER_00:

be able to message them. I just don't get it because you're not paying me for my time. You're paying me want to do really well at the london marathon or uh utmb or race of the stones or you know or or whatever race you know i've got people in the states and people in australia that i coach as well and you know i i'm not saying oh you know i have to charge you a pound for that message

SPEAKER_03:

yeah hey is your chat

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah oh that's all the time

SPEAKER_03:

yeah sorry

SPEAKER_00:

because i'll be a millionaire with you um

SPEAKER_03:

no exactly

SPEAKER_00:

so now i for me it's all about i will do everything i can to get you the best result that you want and deserve for the money that you pay me. There's no limits on how much you want to talk to me.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely, absolutely. So to finish up, I just want to ask, you know, what's the future for Maximum Mileage? Have you got anything exciting in the pipeline? Where do you see this going?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes. So as much as I love... one-to-one coaching and helping people on a one-to-one basis i also realize and and not just realize but you know i talk to loads of people on you know people interact with me on on instagram and i get asked a lot in fact i would say two or three times a week i reckon can you write me a running plan and i say no i'll pay you no i'm not writing you a running plan because For me, I have the saying, don't I? A plan is only as good as the day it's written.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Things need to change. So I don't like static plans. I don't like an off the shelf. Here you go. I've written you a 20 week plan because, you know, in six weeks time, you might get a cold and therefore the plan needs to change. So that plan that you've paid me 80 quid or all of those plans on training peaks that are, you know,$50,$100, whatever they are. Yeah. They look fancy. They look great. They look nice and neat, but That isn't how life works.

SPEAKER_03:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'm not a big fan of doing it that way. Yeah, I am very aware that not everybody wants a full coaching experience. I'm also aware that some people can't afford a whole coaching experience. I am very aware that what we do is a luxury to a lot of people. We're not a... life or death. It's not like you've got to pay your council tax or your gas bills. It's not like I've got to have a running coach. We are a luxury item. So I do realise that people can't always afford it. So I also get a lot of people that want to work for me, but they do say to me, I can't afford to go that far. So what is going to be coming down the line very soon is a membership where people will be able to get a custom written plan that will be delivered to them every month. And then at the end of the month, they'll get a check-in and that'll be the opportunity to say how it's gone over the past month. And also if there are any changes for the next month ahead as well. So it's kind of bridging that gap between here's a plan and full coaching, because I will never write full plans. I will never just... There are a billion plans out there for free. If you want to follow a plan and you can make that work for you, you crack on. But that plan will never be a plan that was written for you unless you get somebody to write one. Yeah. So unless you, if you don't have the knowledge to be able to, and actually knowledge and that self-regulation to be able to dial things up and down, because that's one of the worst things with a static plan is that you're like, oh my God, I've got an 18 mile run to do today and I am knackered. I can't do 18 miles, but I've got to because it says that on the plan and no one's going to move it for me. So off I go and do an 18 mile run and now I'm broken.

SPEAKER_03:

I have to say that is one of the most powerful things for me since I've been coached by you is having that, looking at my plan and going, oh my God, I've got 16, 18 miles to do. I feel awful. I'm so tired. I've had such a busy week. I can't do it. And just messaging you and saying, Nick, This isn't going to happen. What can I do? Because I know in myself that if that was a plan, fixed plan, I'd go and do it and then I'd hurt myself or make myself feel worse. But just going, hey, Nick, what can I do? And having someone come back to you and say, right, today, you're either going to have the day off or you're just going to go out for half an hour, easy run, and that's it. But having that check-in to ask the question is one of the best things because runners... We do tend to overdo it. We tend to overdo it rather than underdo it. And having that kind of sounding board is so powerful. So yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, 100%. So yeah, membership. Excellent. If I can help people to run better without, okay, you're not going to get that full one-to-one coaching experience. Like I say, not everybody wants that, but they do want some sort of guidance. And if I can offer that, if I say I, we, it's going to be me and you, can offer that in a really good professional capacity. There's all these apps coming out like Runner and Cooper and Hal Higdon and all these apps that are powered by AI and all this. Honestly, it's, you still don't have a human being looking at your plan. And I'm actually starting to get people coming to me going, oh, I've been trying to follow Runner, but I miss a run. And then it adapts the plan, but it doesn't adapt it in the right way for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. I think that's where those apps are just, they're way off, they're way off. And I think if we can offer that sort of membership type service where people will get custom plan in a group setting no you won't get the one-to-one access to us but you know we're going to help you i'm really excited about that

SPEAKER_03:

and you'll have the whole maximum mileage community there as well which i think you know if we go back to the the start of this whole conversation about you know parkrun and the element of community that's an incredibly You know, it's such a great thing, isn't it? Having that opportunity to share with peers and encourage others and ask questions. And I think that's, you know, almost better than just having you and me. You've got this pool of people to engage with and chat with. So, yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

absolutely. Just going back to that communication point as well. It's also, you know, I do shout outs regularly. Yeah, we just done shout outs at the beginning of this episode. You know, we do shout outs in the Facebook group for everybody who's racing. You know, we all cheer each other on. In fact, somebody today, one of our athletes today has gone, hey, is there like a Strava group that we can... Yes, I saw that. I'd actually completely forgotten about that because it was somebody I coach set that up.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But, you know, now everybody's following each other on Strava and I was watching it going on this morning. I was like, this is really cool.

SPEAKER_03:

And no matter how hard you deny that you're not really into Strava, as soon as that message came through, I was like, join, join, join, join. Yeah. You know, I think it's great. And I think that's, you know, another part of why, yeah, it works so well. So, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, thank you so much for joining. taking the time to chat today, Nick. I know it's not been easy in parts, but...

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, sorry I cried.

SPEAKER_03:

Don't apologise.

SPEAKER_00:

Try not to.

SPEAKER_03:

Don't apologise. But, you know, it's just really nice to find out more about you and where it all started, really. So thank you so much, Nick. And yeah, I'll see you on the next one.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you, Peg.

SPEAKER_03:

Bye. Bye.

UNKNOWN:

Bye.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's another lap done on the Maximum Mileage Running Podcast. Thank you for joining me and my athletes and my guests on this wild ride through the world of ultra road and trail running. And remember, whether it's a mountain trail or the local road, every mile you conquer makes you stronger. Keep pushing, keep laughing, and of course, keep swearing when that hill just seems a little too steep. If you enjoyed today's journey, don't forget to subscribe and leave me a nice review, please. Your feedback does help me go that extra mile. Until next time, this is your host, Nick Hancock, reminding you to make every mile count. Run long, run strong, and run with maximum mileage. Catch you on the next run.

People on this episode

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Nick Hancock

Host
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Faye Johnson

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Matt Scarsbrook

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