The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
S2 EP 018 - The differences between Australian and American S&C training w/ Darius Reese, Head of Strength and Conditioning at SOF
What role does networking play in building a successful career in strength and conditioning? Join us on the Science of Fitness podcast as we welcome our newest recruit, Darius Reese, who shares his inspiring journey into the world of strength and conditioning.
Originally hailing from the United States, Darius was driven by a deep desire to help his younger brother excel in sports, which led him on a path that included studying kinesiology at San Jose State University and a pivotal internship at Portland State. Darius's story is one of determination and resourcefulness, navigating unpaid internships and leveraging strategic connections that eventually opened doors at Stanford University, setting the stage for his successful career.
The episode delves into the critical aspects of athlete development and injury prevention, highlighting the differences between training systems in the United States and Australia. Darius discusses the importance of individualized training programs and the role of mindset in reaching peak performance, drawing from his experiences with elite athletes like Christian McCaffrey and Bryce Love. We also underscore the significance of building positive habits early in an athlete's career and the value of expert guidance in fitness and exercise. Whether you're an aspiring coach or a fitness enthusiast, this episode is packed with valuable insights into the multifaceted world of strength and conditioning.
Welcome to the Science of Fitness podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life, as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, fitness, performance, business and wellness. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast. Exciting episode. We have SOF's newest recruit, Darius, or Darius Rees, depending on where you're from and how you pronounce it. We've been working on that, Darius, welcome down.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. It's exciting to be here. I'm grateful for this opportunity First podcast I've ever done. So if I stumble on my words, oh well.
Speaker 1:We'll just edit it out. We've got a good producer at the back, so you obviously have moved here recently from the States. Uh, let's get you to walk us through your career journey and and strength and conditioning. You've come as opposed to the Australian system, and most people that we're used to working with you've come through the U S system. Um, how did, how did you get into S and C? What, what sort of got you into it?
Speaker 2:Okay, um, it has been a long journey. Um, what got me into S&C was my little brother. I have two older, one younger, and the reason why I say my little brother is because I wanted him to be better than me in sport, just in general, and I realized that when I got into college I would be able to send things back to him or send him exercises and things to do so that way he can be better than me. But he's one of those kids who knows it all, so I'm not sure how much of it hit home with him, but that was my overall goal was to make sure he was better than me. And it all started when I was going to school at San Jose State and I could even go back further In high school.
Speaker 2:I played football growing up throughout my whole life and I did not get a college scholarship, so I was pretty good. But I think I turned down a scholarship because it was a school that I did not know and in my mind, playing NCAA back in the day, I wanted to go to one of these big time schools and it was a lot of pride. So turned that down and just went up north to San Jose State University and there I was a walk-on football player. I played cornerback. My stint wasn't long. They realized I wasn't good enough, and this is also back in 2008 when there was massive budget cuts. So I was one of the people who was cut off the team as a walk-on and from there my journey started in strength conditioning. I started off my my my degree is in kinesiology, with the emphasis in exercise and fitness for my undergrad and I, once I was about to graduate, my brother actually got a scholarship to Portland State. He has a really good connection with their strength conditioning coach, andrew Pompey, and he reached out to his coach or talked to his coach, said, hey, my brother's into strength conditioning, would he be able to do an internship up here? And that's where I started.
Speaker 2:My career is at Portland State. It's at a smaller school. However, I was able to have a bigger role and capacity in the strength and conditioning field since it was so small and I was able to learn under Andrew Pompey for six months and towards that end of that time there I actually was super invested. He taught me the ropes of strength conditioning and I created a spreadsheet, a spreadsheet of all of the colleges Division I colleges in the States with their strength conditioning coach name, their email, their phone number. So I had to go to the staff directory and find all those things, organized it by different conferences, and I cold reached out to almost every single university through email and one of the people who responded to my email was Andy Ward, who was at Stanford University. My initial email to all these colleges was to try to be a graduate assistant so they would pay for my master's degree while I worked for them. Unfortunately, they didn't have that opportunity.
Speaker 2:There I started off as an intern and I was super excited to start off. This was in January 2015. And from there, I was an intern for six months and that's an unpaid internship Unpaid internship. So everything was on me. I had to find housing, but here's the kicker I'm going back to the Bay Area, where everything started for me. So I had a lot of resources there and maybe in another episode we can talk about my life and, just in general, is pretty unique.
Speaker 2:Um, but I had a lot of resources in San Jose, um, where I was able to live for free. Um, but I had to do services such as I worked with. Um, uh, you, not youth, but people who are transitioning from uh, from 18 years old to adulthood in transitional housing in the foster care system, because I am a former foster youth kid. So I was able to work there while also doing my internship at Stanford. For work, live for free but also work, so that kind of helped me with, like, my money go a little bit longer.
Speaker 2:And after six months I was. I worked my tail off and earned a graduate assistant position where they paid for my schooling. No, I did not go to Stanford, I went to San Jose State. They had a partnership where we would go to school at San Jose State but I would work at Stanford full time. That's interesting, yeah, and I went back and forth through schooling. I lived in San Jose, so it was perfect. So at the end of the day I would go to school and then I would just go home right there and there I'd have to drive all the way back up.
Speaker 1:So how far apart is San Jose and Stanford? So how far apart are San Jose and Stanford?
Speaker 2:So I only could talk miles here Time.
Speaker 1:Give me time.
Speaker 2:Time depends on traffic. It could be up to an hour, but in strength conditioning usually early mornings, late nights, so I kind of somewhat missed traffic there. But going to school it was a lot of traffic, especially at that 4 pm mark. What?
Speaker 1:did a typical day in terms of time commitment look like during that period?
Speaker 2:A typical day would be starting at 6 o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1:At Stanford, at Stanford, correct Setting up pitches, setting up gym.
Speaker 2:Yep, setting up the field If we have a run that day. Setting up the facility, because we typically have a lift right after or later on in that day. Setting all that up as an intern, making sure everything is set to a T and being Johnny on the spot ready to adjust cones and things like that on the field when we are on the field doing the conditioning stuff, because as an intern you're not really allowed to coach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're not allowed to coach. You don't talk to the players. Yes, you just make sure everything's there, exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you allowed to coach because you don't talk to the players, yes, you just make sure everything's there, exactly, yeah, exactly, and you get all your education post with questions and intern groups and stuff like that. So, um, so, start that early, don't finish until roughly around 8 pm, um at night, because you all the duties that you have to do cleaning the facility, um setting up for other teams, because stanford has 36 teams, so you have the opportunity to be in contact with multiple different sports while you're there. So that was a really great opportunity at Stanford. So worked my way up at Stanford, coming from an intern to a graduate assistant and by the end of it I was assistant director of football sports performance.
Speaker 2:Wow, how many years so that was over six years, wow, yeah. And the last two years I was just solely working with football, and the years prior to that I was working with multiple different sports. And then I got the opportunity from my previous boss, shannon Turley, who was the head guy when I was there at Stanford. He got the job at Colorado and he reached out to me saying hey, I would love for you to come here to Colorado and help me build this program. And I could not resist that opportunity. And especially during that time there was a transition from Stanford as they were bringing in new staff as well. So, let go at Stanford. Colorado called, accepted that position at Colorado, was there for two years, and then Coach Prime came in, a new coach, released the staff, and that's when my wife and I made the decision to move to Australia. And that's what happened. But yeah, that has been my career, a lot of ups and downs, but the ups supersede the downs for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every time Interesting. Okay, so in terms of, I guess, your experience as an athlete and an aspiring athlete and I guess, when that sort of flame gets blown out, to a certain extent was it a big emotional thing for you or did you kind of know as you went into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of knew, like the percentages, the odds weren't in my favor. Right From high school to division one, playing football, it's like 3% of athletes who actually make it, and from like going to the NFL, it was like 1.6%. So it's, the odds were never, were never is not in your favor, and I was never the tallest athlete, I was never the fastest athlete, but I was pretty smart in terms of schematics. But schematics only could take you so far, especially with you're going against talented athletes. I was never depressed or saddened about it. I am always a person who is able to adjust and pivot and move forward and taking step after step to build something else.
Speaker 1:And yeah, that's what I did. Were there things as an athlete sorry as a strength and conditioning coach and specialist. Now that you wish you knew as an aspiring athlete.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%, yeah, 100%, especially a lot more on the field, conditioning and changing direction drills. A lot of the stuff I did on my own time was me trying to just make up drills and see other people do things. And you know I had a really good high school coach, wardo Crushfield, who trained us. He actually went to San Jose State as well so he helped me out there, but he trained us on the side, trying to make us the best athletes as possible Not only me, but just a community of people. He helped out my life and multiple different people's lives. So if I knew what I knew now, I would definitely have trained differently More change of direction speed work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, yeah, okay, interesting, um, and in terms of, I guess, just just sticking on your experience as an athlete, aspiring athlete, uh, how much of it influenced, and has still influenced, your career today. You know little things that you might see in an athlete. Now that you go oh man, that was me Like I'm going to give you what I wish I had. Does that come up very much and has?
Speaker 2:that come up over your career. That actually comes up a lot and it actually helps me cater to athletes in a different way, because I was like, only if I was able to do that, I think I would have been much better. And my weakness is the mobility and stability aspect of things, and that is one of my philosophies is making sure an athlete is mobile enough to be able to move to the range of motions that they need and have that capacity to do so to prevent injury, and that is molds my philosophy, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's that foundation right, exactly You've got to lay the cement before you want to build anything. Exactly, and I was a person who never did any type of stretching prior or post an exercise and I tried to push that on to not only athletes, just people in general. As you can tell, when I program I try to do some mobility, some self-care, yeah, some self-care. Make sure you're feeling better. You leave feeling better than you came in.
Speaker 1:Okay, makes sense. Let's talk transition from the States to Australia First of all. I mean, you mentioned kind of when you decided to wrap up and make the move Professionally. What did you expect to experience when you decided to move and go into Australia, the strength and conditioning world? Did you have any?
Speaker 2:idea what you were walking into. I had no idea what I was walking into. I thought things were going to be simple and easy. Based off my experience, I was naive and now that I know what I know, it is a lot more challenging to go to a new country to start right back up, even if it's in the same career and the experience that you had, Because a lot of times it's who you know, not what you know. So I didn't know anyone and starting over is challenging, especially when you know you have that backing of experience. So that part is challenging. It sometimes got to me I was like how are these people getting these job opportunities and I'm not and I have all this good experience? So that kind of hurt me in the front side. But I pivoted and I'm very resilient and I kept pushing forward. Yeah, as you have to. It's funny because I've grown up in multiple countries. I just like I pivoted and I'm very resilient and I kept pushing forward. Yeah, as you, as you have to.
Speaker 1:It's funny, cause, like I've, I've grown up in multiple countries and waffled on about that and on this podcast, I'm sure. But the biggest thing I've realized, particularly since I graduated high school here in Brisbane and I moved to Perth, western Australia, and as much as it's the same country, it's a different city and I mean it's freaking on the other side of the country. So, unlike the states where everyone bounces back and forth, yeah, it's four hours away, you're not going to jump on a plane. Get here for the weekend, go back. Um. But the big thing I realized, even though I didn't know what I want to do and I was a 17 year old, I went and did my certs and fitness and then did my undergrad and everything else.
Speaker 1:After five years there I suddenly had a network and I had people calling me because their friend's friend knew me and they wanted to do just personal training or you know, I had a bit of a network in the rugby system and I knew some of the coaches in the high performance programs there and could lean on them. And then they would say, oh, you know, this athlete wants to do something. They're not at this level, go see here. And then, and gradually. I had a network and then I uprooted and moved back here and I realized that I've sort of got a generalized rule and I think it's subject to the size of the city. It takes. In a smaller city um, western australia being an example for me it takes five years to build a network to have enough people that know you so that when you do apply for the job or you do have a referral or so your name pops up a little bit more often. It takes a little while. Bigger city you know brisbane now it's heading there three to five years as sydney and melbourne in australia's context it's going to take maybe two or three years because everything's moving. People are ready to go in that sort of system. They think in that way the states is just bigger and bigger and bigger still. But I'm sure it's probably the same thing.
Speaker 1:Your network determines everything. Like you wouldn't have got the the Colorado job if you didn't know the coach. Yes, 100%, and they take you and it's very much. I can't speak for any other industry, for I only know S and C and exercise. It's, it's very much a part of the career as a strength and conditioning coach. The lack of stability You're not going to lock into a accounting firm and work in that city and be at that firm for the rest of your life. You don't have that security in this job. Is that something you've realized or is that something you almost understood? As a strength and conditioning coach, there is going to be variability, subject to say, if I'm working at a team, the coach and who's on the coaching staff, because they're going to bring in their own team every time.
Speaker 2:That's something that I realized earlier in my career. Pompey helped me realize that, andy Ward at Stanford helped me realize that. Shannon Turley at Stanford helped me realize that All these people helped me realize those things because they would always say, hey, it's about who you know, and who you know goes a long way and it's good to build a relationship with athletes, but it's also great to build relationship with coaches, because you never know what coach is going to get that head job at a different place and he might want to take you. So I realized that earlier in my career and that helped me take the steps that I needed to here in Australia Because prior to me coming, I knew it's about who you know. So I just started reaching out to a whole bunch of different people. My wife knew different people like Kelly Penfold my wife knew and she's a big name in the strength conditioning realm here. So she actually helped me do like one of those webinar things with ASCA earlier In January. I came here in December and I was able to do that.
Speaker 2:So it's about who you know and my name was out there and then Charles Dudley, who was a head high performance at Nudgee College he's, I think he saw that or something and he reached out to me. He said, hey, um, do you want to? I think I may have reached out to him. I may have reached out to um Trent Hacking looking for a job. And then Charles Dudley reached out and said hey, you want to come check it out? Checked it out, walked around the facility and little did I know I walked into a casual role.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's about the networking right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Prior to me coming. And Dan Baker, yeah, great example. He's like one of the godfathers here in strength conditioning.
Speaker 1:He taught me in my master's when he did our intensive in 2018. It was so funny.
Speaker 2:So I've never met him in person. However, shannon Turley my previous, my mentor, my previous boss he did a. He did a speaking engagement here in Australia years back and he gave me his contact info and Dan Baker told me what I needed to do to get a ASCA certified. And I've kept in contact with Dan Baker through email. So it's things like that. The network goes a long way and I realized early in my career and it helped me out transition to Australia a little bit more smoothly.
Speaker 2:And another example, kurt Vogel. He helped me out with even trying to get this job opportunity here at SOF, putting in a word for me. So it's things like that your network takes you a long way.
Speaker 1:It goes a long way and it sort of speaks volumes for, I guess, not burning a bridge. You know professionally, 100%.
Speaker 1:And it's something I try and remind myself and and this is not even in strength conditioning, but just in health and fitness industry anyway do a good job, do a good job every time and be as as good as you can be. And it's, it's easy to sit and say on a microphone 100%, turning up day and out is is another thing. And there's big moments in my career where I reflect, going I sort of just I slipped off there, my intensity dropped off, I didn't quite deliver At my standard. That person, that client, walked away or that coach wasn't happy with it, and that's the taste I've left in their mouth and it's a lot of pressure. And it doesn't only speak for strength and conditioning. I think it speaks generally in life if you want to get anywhere in your career. Yeah, really interesting. Shout out to Curt and a couple of those big names there. It's good to see and it's funny how those dots connect it really is.
Speaker 1:Dan Baker. There's a couple of other coaches out there that I'm sure you're familiar with, that I've got to work with that, have a name and worked in the States. So how would you compare the training cultures? Okay, so you've seen high school rugby programs? Yes, you've seen, I guess, what we're doing here and it's a little different. It's obviously gen pop, which is, you know, not necessarily around, you've spent much time in, but just from a general training culture, how would you compare the differences?
Speaker 2:um, I would say in the states it's a lot higher stakes and I only can speak to my experiences. I'm just saying that first and foremost, only speak to my experiences is that sport is ingrained in culture in the States and there's a lot of high stakes and money involved in it. So you're expected to do a great job and you're expected to get results fast. So it is a high pressured situation In Australia it is high pressured but I don't think it's to the scale of in the States. I do believe that in the States you work with again my experience at the college system you work with a different range of elite athletes. I say that meaning because in American football people who get to college, like I said, it's 3% and those athletes are there for a reason most of the time, especially the ones who get drafted, and you get to be able to tap into those type of mindsets of those athletes, those people, and be able to learn and grasp and add things to your tool belt from those type of athletes In Australia. Learn and grasp and add things to your tool boat from those type of athletes.
Speaker 2:In australia athletes are still elite. Um, the sports they rugby. I have a much more appreciation for that sport and the contact and the sounds that I hear coming from just being on the field, yeah, um. However, I believe a football athlete is I'm probably going to get a lot of stuff from this is more athletic than a rugby player. You have to be able to change 360 degrees on a football field. Rugby is very straightforward, linear and a little bit of lateral, not somewhat lateral, but American football is 360 degrees and very powerful, explosive Rugby. You have to have the cardio, so I would say a different range of elite athlete.
Speaker 2:There In the States, the programs I've been in more militant, making sure things are done to a T and it's a high standard. I guess it depends on the program you're in. In Australia they are a little bit more loose, but they are still getting the most out of that person. I would say it's because of the stakes, right, and that's what I would just believe. Hopefully I don't get the you know stuff, for that everyone's gonna come and scream at you yeah, that's funny, yeah sense um, and again in the states is a very hyped.
Speaker 2:Strength conditioning coach is a very hyped culture. You you have a lot of times bring the energy to the weight room, um, for the athletes, um, but we try to teach that the athlete needs to bring that energy from within themselves. In Australia, like that, from what I experience, the coaches don't really bring the juice for the athlete. The music brings the juice and the athlete brings it for themselves as well. So they have to want to be there and show up. So those are my takes on that. And it's just more opportunities in the States with more schools, high schools, more colleges. You have college sport there. You don't really have paid positions for college sport here at a high level, I should say, and then more professional teams in the States. So it's just more opportunities there.
Speaker 2:But I do believe Australia is the leader in sports science. That's something that I've realized here. Almost every single strength and conditioning coach understands the sports science. I couldn't say every single strength and conditioning coach in the state understands the sports science. I really didn't understand the sports science in the States when I was a strength conditioning coach because we had a sports scientist who did the work for us here the resources are a little bit more limited. Programs don't have that sports. Some programs don't have that sports scientist, so that strength conditioning coach has to do that. So let's, how would you define sports scientist to use data to provide feedback and integration into your training program, using sports science technology such as catapult, using valve systems, things of that nature, and giving feedback to the coaches to tailor the program?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, cool, yeah, that makes sense and I mean it's funny I think about. In my strength conditioning masters I did here. It was run by Professor Gregory Half. He's from the States. We touched a lot. You go down to the molecular level of the physiology. You do the physics and the biomechanics and a lot of the lifting stuff and the conditioning elements. But we also did GPS analysis and we did sports specific. You know, movement analysis and all those sorts of things as well which you know walking into roles and even the way we work with people.
Speaker 1:Now I apply that methodology to our Fit Over 50s program. You know, and you can call it sport, but there's a movement element, there's that whole life element of what we do. And we've got to be able to crunch data. I've got to put the rugby team in GPS units and turn around, generate that report, understand what the GPS system is saying, how fast they're running, how far are they running, is it too much, is it too little and then turn around and go also the running mechanics is a factor in here and then also turn around and go I also them running mechanics is a factor in here and then also turn around and go. What gym and specific strength conditioning work are we doing to influence running mechanics to help handle this running load, to then speak to the coach to say, hey, you're doing a good job, it's a good session, or two lacking intensity or whatever it might be?
Speaker 2:yeah, you're wearing about 10 hats yes, 100, 100 and from my experience working in the football industry in the states like you just wear your one hat. Yeah, you wear your one hat. You coach this position. We have a sports scientist who gives you the data Wow. And they tell you, hey, this is what I'm seeing from them. And then you move forward with the plan.
Speaker 1:That's I mean, that sounds so awesome.
Speaker 2:And that was one of the cons I had with Australia. I was like you have to wear so many hats. You have to wear a lot of hats. I wouldn't say it's a con because you are adding those tools to your tool belt right For later on down the road. You're equipping yourself for any type of position, which gives you great opportunity. But it is a lot of stress and a lot of probably late nights because you have to wear all these hats and crunch data and all those great things.
Speaker 1:Yeah you're doing a lot of work. Yeah, let's start with the pros and cons, then let's go with cons of the Australian strength and conditioning system that you've seen thus far. Okay, what else are the standouts?
Speaker 2:The cons like fewer elite opportunities, like in Queensland. What is it not that many pro teams here? Right, yeah, I could probably count them in one hand yeah, um, and elite opportunities to get into those roles is very limited, um, so I would say not a lot of um opportunities. The pay pay is pretty low, it's I would say so. I go back and forth. It's coming, it has came a long way, but the pay is not where it needs to be, based on the hours that is required for this position.
Speaker 1:So the pay is pretty low and staying on that for a second, it's probably a much more important role than we think. Let's use Rugby Union as an example. They've thrown $3 million at a player to come across from Rugby League, who's incredibly talented, who keeps him on the field, yes, yes, like he could come in and rupture a hammy, yeah, and be gone for 18 months if it's not rehabbed and put back like like rehabbed and strength and condition correctly, 100 um.
Speaker 2:It's an organization's understanding the value of that yeah, and it it has progressed the value of the strength conditioning coach Big time, big time, but I don't think it is where it needs to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and would you say this and we'll come back to the cons but would you say the US system is a little bit more ahead in understanding that the value of strength conditioning and rehabilitation?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I believe it is, especially at the bigger colleges and the pay is pretty high. That's one of the pros. But there is a pay gap too as well. Like, the head person can make $800,000. The second person in charge can make probably 150 to 180. So it is a big pay gap. So that is a con, I would say. In the States it all depends on who that head person is and how they disperse their money. I would take a lower pay to get my staff paid more. So that's just me personally. But yeah, I would say the pay gap is pretty massive in the States from the head person to the rest of the staff.
Speaker 1:Are there cons in the US system?
Speaker 2:Yes, there is cons. I will say a lot of pressure because of all the money that is being invested. You are given these resources so you better make them count. So it's a lot of pressure and the work-life balance. Because of that pressure you're not feeling like you're able to spend time with your family. If you don't do well in your job, you won't have a job. So the job security it's real man. I think that's a big con. The work-life balance there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, cool, cool. What else Any other majors from a performance perspective Cons, at least in Australia or the States.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say the facilities and resources in Australia. I was expecting a lot more, but I haven't really seen a state-of-the-art facility yet. The Broncos were pretty good. They had plate flooring were uh were pretty good. The play flooring racks look pretty good, but it's smaller than what I expected for a professional team.
Speaker 1:The professional the professional team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in this city, yeah it's, it's cool, like the facility is nice, they have probably everything that they need, but I was expecting more in my mind coming from the states, so, um, I would say the facilities and the limited resources. In that regard, yeah, cool, interesting.
Speaker 1:Very interesting. Let's go to pros the good things about the US system. You know. You've talked about resource being the big one and access to high level, multiple high level athletes and opportunities as a coach. What else stands out from a you know, even an aspiring athlete in that system and what are some of the pros there?
Speaker 2:you know even an aspiring athlete in that system. And what are some of the pros there? I would say that athletes take strength conditioning serious. I'm not saying I just really don't, but I'm saying they take it serious because if they want to get to the next level, they know they need that to be getting. They need to get bigger. Well, a dietician will help them with that as well. Faster, stronger and stay on the field. So they take those things seriously in the weight room, especially if they want to go to that next level.
Speaker 2:So I definitely would say that is one of the pros is you don't have to convince an athlete most of the time to put in the work. A saying that I like to say is these are the best athletes that I coach. They come in with this mindset Extra work is an extra. If you want to be great, that's just what you do. You know it's the work. Yeah, that's the work.
Speaker 2:Um, in australia I would say pro is the focus on learn long-term athlete development. Um, like I said in the states, you they want to. Just you're getting these athletes for a short period of time. Don't care about their long-term athletic development. You care about the results then, and there here in Australia they think about things from an earlier age, in high school, even younger than in. I call it high school, they call it primary school here. Yeah, they even have programs for kids. When I was at Nudgee, kids who are under 10 years old in the weight room just doing things to be able to move their body and learning how to use their body. So I would say that is a pro.
Speaker 2:Here is that long-term athlete development, starting from young age all the way going towards the pro level, which is cool. And, like I said, australia has been a leader in the sports science realm. So that is huge here. I haven't experienced it yet, but I hear great things about it. The ASCA conference compared to the NSCA conference. The ASCA conference, I hear, they provide you with meals and things of that nature and you get those type of resources for the money that you pay. In the States they don't provide you with meals. You have to go use your company car to go get food and stuff like that. So the conference doesn't provide it.
Speaker 1:The you have to provide that for yourself yeah, yeah, and I will say that about australian strength and conditioning and and even the, the ex-phys and ex-science sort of clinical world. It's a pretty close knit and and everyone's out there to kind of ultimately help each other and get each other better, um, which is which is really interesting. So for any of those thinking of hitting the ASCA conference, get there, you're going to get some food at the very least.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for it. I'm excited to show up and learn learn from all the different coaches around Australia and also develop relationships, Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, Okay. So let's sort of steer just to the athlete side a little bit more. You've worked with multiple athletes outside of the football programs and that sort of thing. Staying on the comparison of Australia and then the US systems, what do you think it is and I lean on sports, but specifically swimming that I think the USs system and resources and the amount of athletes they have access to versus australia is obviously much bigger. Yeah, australia can and does compete at a really reasonable level on a global scale for all the sports it's sort of known for.
Speaker 1:What have you seen that you think might be the reason for that?
Speaker 2:I would say the sports science gives them the upper hand. I believe that's why the sports science stuff was developed to try to give Australia that upper hand Looking at the minute details of the physiology of the body and what that is doing, and data telling you. The program is data-driven and I think that is helping australia tremendously. Um, also, the coaches here in australia are very, very bright. They're smart, um every is. I haven't met a coach that I was like I know more than you. You know like I don't know a lot. I like to be surrounded with people who know more than me, which is is why I'm here today surrounded by you. You know more than me, so I love to be a sponge and absorb that knowledge. Australia strength and conditioning coaches are the shit. They know their stuff and I think that helps trend this country in the right way, because they are doing things that are detail oriented and data driven and they're not going to do anything most of them that isn't data driven and that's going to produce results.
Speaker 1:So I think that is helping australia um, big time yeah, cool, that's interesting, interesting to think about and it's sort of, I guess, the blessing, as you said, of the curse that is, um, we're under resource, so you've got to wear the hats. You're going to be informed and your decision-making is just much more holistic. You're thinking of multiple layers and if you can spend the time and the due diligence to absorb all that and then frame your decision, your discussions, your development of athletes it goes a long way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, really cool. Let's go to coaching philosophy and development. For yourself, you've worked with a lot of exceptional athletes. You, for yourself, you've worked with a lot of exceptional athletes. You've worked with exceptional programs and coaching staff and been mentored by some of the best in the industry. Let's start with Shannon Turley. How did his mentorship shape your coaching strategies?
Speaker 2:Oh, it is my coaching strategy. I wouldn't say that I picked a lot of information from Shannon Turley. I want to say he is one of the leaders in the rehab space in terms of strength conditioning and getting results and keeping athletes on the field, because an athlete isn't good if they're not on the field. You can't make the club in the tub. As Cullen Carroll would like to say all the time, which is one of my co coworkers and previous boss as well. You can't do anything when you're on the sideline being injured. So Shannon Turley has shaped my philosophy of the injury prevention as number one and then athletic performance is number two.
Speaker 1:That's. I think we need to put a light on that. Yes, Injury prevention number one, performance number two yes, Because I think it's the biggest compromise I've seen in my experience in the S&C world performance, performance, performance. We won't worry about range of motion, we won't worry too much about this. We've got to get the jumps in, We've got to get the lifting in. It's like hang on a second, yeah, but or they lack control. That's really interesting.
Speaker 2:They lack the stability, the mobility in this movement. Where are their ankles? Do they have the range of motion to be able to decelerate, or is all that force going to their knee? So you can perform as much as you want, getting your quads as strong as you can, but if you don't have the range of motion in your ankles to be able to decelerate and bend, then you're putting yourself in a red position where you might get injured. So looking at those type of aspects as injury prevention, it should be number one in my eyes. So Shannon Turley helped shape that for me and brought a light to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, your experiences with multiple sports. You've done, obviously, a lot of the football programs, but you've done gymnastics, you've done swimming, you've done water polo. You've done gymnastics, you've done swimming, you've done water polo. You've done, you've done athletes across a broad spectrum, particularly college athletes, where their movement and training capacity isn't at an elite athlete. That's been in a program for 15 years. They're, they're kind of coming in the. Their bodies are finally developed, but their skill set from a training perspective isn't what have you learned and then what really stands out and what have you, I suppose, taken from one sport shared in another and vice versa um, I learned that every athlete is different and you cannot train each sport the same.
Speaker 2:Um, you, your exercise selection. Some may cross over but some may not. So, for instance, um, you would never see a football player ask the grass in a squat on the field. So why are you trying to make him squat, ask the grass in the weight room? A lot of coaches say, oh, it's to build that range of motion capacity for that, and so that way you prevent injury. But he's not going to be in that shape on the field, so limit his range of motion to maybe parallel in the squat. Don't need to go below that and they'll do just fine on the field. So that's an example for training that athlete specific to their sport.
Speaker 2:I would train, like I said, athletes differently for their sport. For instance, gymnastics. They need a lot of shoulder stability. They are very strong and powerful, but you also have to think about the deceleration forces that they have to overcome. So you have to get them really, really, really strong, have to build coordination and balance in the weight room, utilizing unstable services to train in that nature. So I wouldn't put a football player on all those unstable services as much as I would a gymnast, so you would train those athletes differently. Some, like I said, some exercises may cross over, but definitely treat each person in each sport differently and train them as such. Yeah Cool, hopefully I was able to answer that.
Speaker 1:No, no, absolutely. You've worked with, you know, some of the some of the best athletes in the States Christian McCaffrey, bryce Love. What have you learned from coaching athletes of that caliber and I guess what makes them different?
Speaker 2:I think what makes them different is their mindset. Christian was a big leader. He let his body of work do the speaking, but he also spoke up when he needed to. Bryce Love was a lot quieter. He let his work do the speaking for him and he performed on the field. And they're both leaders in their own rights right, and it's more so.
Speaker 2:A mindset thing that they came in with is always doing more. If you have to coach someone to do more, it's a mentality switch that they have to get to that next level. They have to flip that switch. It's okay to have to coach athletes to build those habits. Now they need to carry over those habits and keep doing it year after year. It's like I said, those two athletes are freak athletes and their mindset was always doing more. Sometimes it can hurt on. Yeah, sometimes you need to pull the rings back a little bit. Hey, your ankles not feeling good right now. Should you be doing that? Should you be doing those plyometrics? Or should you be doing, you know, this preventative stuff to keep you, um, healthy and safe? So, um, it's things like that. Yeah, their mindset was just.
Speaker 1:And leadership, where they're second to none Okay, that's really interesting Because I mean how many athletes you don't have to name names, but of a percentage that you worked within those programs who maybe, athletically, were on the same level, you know, with ability to lift, ability to perform on a game when they were on, yeah, but were limited by mindset and, I guess, being able to turn around and perform consistently. Is there a lot of athletes and programs that you've worked with that have the capacity, don't quite have the mindset to get there.
Speaker 2:I think there I wouldn't say that. I think most of the athletes that I've coached who has had a career in the NFL always had that type of mindset of doing more and getting the most out of you out of themselves, always seeking coaching.
Speaker 1:Those are the best athletes always seeking coaching.
Speaker 2:What can I do better? How can I get better? And those are the athletes who I've coached are in the NFL still today. Over 25 athletes that I have interactions with of always wanting to get better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, interesting, that's um, and there's a degree of humbleness, right like they're the best, yes, but they want to get better, yes, 100 and that's what makes them the best yeah, and a lot of them know their deficiencies.
Speaker 2:We go over with them all the time and sometimes they steer away from it. But as coaches, hey, make sure you hit this if you want to hit that as well. So we, we try to make sure point them in the right direction because again in college they're still um young adults.
Speaker 1:They still are um, uh, developing yeah, developing, which is a big uh, it's such a, it's such an important window of life. Yes, and again, I've waffled on about this 30, I've hit 30 this year that window of your 20s, and when you're in it, when you're 19, 18, 19, 20, 21,. Like you don't think about it, you don't have presence, but the behaviors and the attitudes that you really do, you know, start to put in your life, then they probably will follow you. Yeah, and the less conscious you are about them when you realize I might need to change them, or oh, wow, I'm so glad I did that.
Speaker 1:You know, a little one for me was just and just how it's shaped my career. I was I think it was about 20 years old I just didn't want to miss a gym session at 5 am and I would start work at 6. And I would refuse to train clients at 5. And I did like a six or 12 month period and I had a few friends jump on. But train at 5am, don't miss it, don't miss it. Habit, habit, habit. No, I just don't miss.
Speaker 1:I still got the spreadsheet and the word docs of those programs that I was doing and it wasn't to be a freak athlete, but I think, as a practitioner, training a lot gave me a degree of empathy and that I felt what the program had, yes, and so I knew, oh, that wasn't hard enough or that was way too hard. And yeah, I've pulled and pushed a few of those things and you and you give them to your clients, um, and that's more in the sort of general perspective, but little habits, you know, and I think maybe a message to the university or the college age kid or athlete really like you'd like be present in that moment 100 as much as there's so much going on to absorb yeah, because they also have school on top of being able to perform on the field and all these hours that are they have to put in in different spots.
Speaker 2:So it's challenging to be in the moment, but we have to, as coaches, try to ensure that they are focusing on the moment yeah, very important, alright.
Speaker 1:So so, in terms of adapting to the new environment in Australia, and particularly your staff, within what we're doing here, what are the major differences? I guess that obviously, first of all, there's the population side of things, the differences and then the similarities you're finding in, I guess, the population you're working with here at SOF, if you're in on our Elevate program program, it's our expensive, high value, um big investment from financial and time perspective for all the clients. Yeah, um, what are the similarities you're seeing in the populations, even though the ages, the athleticism, are different? Is there anything that stands out?
Speaker 2:um, for me, I, I would, yes, something that stands out. It's still pressure, because they are paying to be here, they want to be here. So I'm going to do my damn best to make sure they're getting the best out of their program and the best customer service they can experience, because that's what they are paying for. So I'm going to give them that value experience because that's what they are paying for. So I'm going to give them that value, whether it's, you know, just a conversation, whether it's their programs making sure they are pain-free, making their body a little bit more balanced and you know, I'm going to give them that and I'm going to treat them as they need it to be treated, not because of what they're paying, but as a human being. They need to feel good and have a long life. But the pressure is there. The pressure is there to get that done.
Speaker 2:However it doesn't have to be done in a short period of time. That's a big difference. That is a big difference. So now we can take our time a little bit to get there, but they're going to get there and they're going to do it right, exactly, exactly. Get there, but they're going to get there and they're going to do it right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:It's just getting them to show up and being consistent with that in terms of methodologies and techniques, trend conditioning, wise, um. I've got things that come to mind for me, but you know, from your end, unique things that you probably haven't seen in the australian system, um, let alone health and fitness industry, because you know stepping away seen in the Australian system, let alone health and fitness industry, because you know stepping away from just the elite performance side of things. What are major things that you've seen in the elite world that are really valuable for the athletes that need to be dragged into Gen Pop and these populations you're working with now.
Speaker 2:It goes back to my philosophy. Injury prevention is not just in a sport. A person can get injured on a run, on a long run. So making sure their body is symmetrical in terms of the range of emotions that they can produce or they have, and eliminating asymmetries and I think injury prevention is still going to be my number one, because a lot of people are here because they have some type of niggle, some type of injury that they want to get over.
Speaker 2:Whether it's a low back calf trap, whatever it is Okay. Where is this coming from? Just like with an athlete okay, where does your injury come from? Where do you need to improve? Same with the general pop when do you need to improve? Where can we reduce this injury in order for us to have a successful build on their performance in what they want to do, whether it's just being a general fitness person who wants to run, who wants to go on long runs, getting back on the field we have some athletes here who wants to just get back on the field from an ACL or a hammy or Achilles or anything like that. Applying those that philosophy to the general pop is still the same and that's why I believe I am fitting in here seamlessly, because it is still the same. You want to prevent injury and have a long pain-free life, and then the performance will come.
Speaker 1:Exactly. It's funny to sort of try and encourage people whether you are an accountant or a lawyer or a surgeon that does training here unless you've had an episode of back pain, as an example, and it's leveled you and put you in bed for seven days, those people are some of the most motivated individuals from a training perspective because there's nothing worse. There is nothing worse, and people say it all the time. They're like if I ever experience that again, I'm done. I don't want to do anything else in my life. It's that depressing. So preventing that is motivating. But for those that haven't experienced that that much, um, they need people need to start considering themselves as athletes in the sense of take your body seriously, because it's the only one. You've got 100 and if it lets you down multiple times, you're going to struggle to enjoy the rest of your life 100 and we spend all our lives working and trying to make money and trying to set ourselves up. It's like, hey, you got to take care of yourself so you can at some point enjoy yourself. Yeah, um, which is really interesting, and I think it's a testament to where the health and fitness industry is going. You know, there's the longevity conversation now which is on the radar for a lot of people, but, um, I think generally people need to spend more time not worrying about the aesthetic of health and fitness like that.
Speaker 1:That, for me, is a byproduct. First and foremost, can you move your body well and safely? Can you fall over, graze your knee and get a bruise and not break your wrist or fracture a femur or some collarbone? Yeah, you just want to bruise, you know a bruise, and not break your wrist or fracture a femur or something Collarbone. Yeah, you just want a bruise. A bruise is much easier to fix than a broken bone, and so that's where this injury prevention sort of thing comes in. If people, general population people are listening to this, what do they need to do? Who do they need to reach out to?
Speaker 2:They're going to the gym, they're training, they're trying to get in shape they're trying to be healthier keep hurting themselves or they don't know where to go. Where should they start? That's a great question. Start us off. Yeah, come here. Yeah, I'm here. Um, no, um, reach out to an expert in the exercise physiology realm. Um, uh, I would say that that's first and foremost, um, and go from there. If, if you're a runner, reach out to the expert in running, um, techniques and things like that, so that way you're biomechanically efficient, so that way we don't have those niggles, um, and, and most of those times those experts have trained athletes. So don't be afraid to reach out to them because they can help you, even if you're a general pop person. Most of the time, that's what I would say. I don't know the steps here in Australia, so it's hard for me to speak to it, but number one start with soft. Number two reach out to the expert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, just invest in the time, no matter where you are, I think. Have you seen that in the US health and fitness scene? Do you think that trend's coming? There's a lot of guys like you who've got this experience. Maybe you're not working. In general, has the general POPs access and standard to high level coaching physical coaching improved?
Speaker 2:That's a great question I haven't had the experience to. I can't speak on it because I haven't had the experience to be around it there in it, because I've had the experience to um be around it there in the states because all I was around was the college high performance strength conditioning. So I can't really speak to that, but I do hope so because general population are people too 100 and they need that, that specialization of how to move um and not just generalization of let's get in the gym and just work for no reason, right. So you need someone to know the knowledge behind that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You've risen through the ranks as an S&C, from intern to assistant director to, you know, running full-on programs. What advice are you giving to the aspiring strength and conditioning coach, be it in the Australian system, the UK system, the US system?
Speaker 2:Aspiring is one network Build relationships, not only just network, just to reach out. Build relationships and try to form those relationships, because they're going to take you a long way. What builds good relationships? Sorry to pivot off this Get a coffee with someone. Go get a coffee, try to show up to their facility and just step back and see what they're doing, see if you can be a sponge in the knowledge that they're giving their clientele or their athlete or whatever it is. Be a sponge in that regard and just show up in constant communication. Don't bug them, but have a good cadence with that. Always checking in. Okay, always checking in. That's what I mean by that Networking and building those relationships.
Speaker 2:Number two is understanding the human body biomechanically. Know when you're doing something such as abducting a shoulder or abducting an arm, what is happening to the muscles that are. You know, having your arm go up like that, what is getting long, what is getting short? What are muscles are firing? Is your scat moving correctly? So, understanding the movement of different body parts, mainly the joints, which is probably the bigger ones, because that's what the muscle, the crossover Understanding that is going to take you a very, very, very long way because you can be able to program. For if someone has something and they need to develop something, or they have an injury for something, you know what to program for that movement. So, understanding those movements and the agonist and antagonist muscles that are being a part of that movement, understanding that is going to be huge. And three continue education, continuing to try to learn. And learning, learning, learning. It shouldn't stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, particularly on that last point. Even the second point, they go with each other right. The more I look at it and the more time I spend in working with bodies. I did a three-year undergraduate in exercise and sports science and touched a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2:Knew nothing you know, that's yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I did my master's and I touched a little bit more of everything and knew I knew less.
Speaker 1:And I was like oh, okay All right, and in hindsight I look at it now. And we need a medical level understanding of the physical of the body. We need to know biochemistry right down to the molecule. We need to know physics right down to where physics becomes just mathematical theory. Yeah, um, from a movement perspective, because you know we can apply linear vectors and forces and whatever else it's like cool. What about the rotational aspects? And mathematically, how do we model that? Like all the different planes, the planes of movement, and when do we step out of sagittal frontal transverse? It's like hang on, we're in that all the time, like a squat is a frontal plane or whatever we want to call it. Hang on. What's happening at the femur? What's happening at the foot? What's suddenly the layers of that? So the complexity of this career is infinite. And then the other thing is from a literature perspective and actual evidence science basis, we are at the infancy. We don't have 100 years of pharmacology to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, we know a lot about what these pills do and what happens.
Speaker 2:We only have 20, 30 years of literature.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so going to ASCA, going to the conference, looking at the literature, listening to the conference, looking at the literature, listening to the podcast, reading the books, asking the questions, networking with the experts, it's, it's, it's a perpetual thing. That's uh, you know, in 40 years time, imagine what we know yes, 100 what? What were you doing at the start, or did you see at the start of your career that was like mandatory, that is now. Please don't do that. In essence, see performance, what's been thrown out because the literature has evolved.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I wasn't prepared for that one. Wow, Nothing is coming to my mind right now. That was over 12 years ago. I was going to say I can't think of anything right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, little thing, I remember. I remember the little things that we used to do, from um um foam rolling being this new fad thing to, and we used to do it after we trained yeah to help with doms literature.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, that doesn't exist anymore, now it's actually it might help at the start of the session. Depends on the athlete. Do it if you are in Xbox and it actually makes you feel better and it's being subjective to that. And even just in the general health and fitness thing, I think we're getting much more of an understanding. You know, doing a CrossFit style WOD or doing a workout with which you're having your cardiovascular system trained at the same time as your strength system.
Speaker 2:You sit there and smile and shake your head and laugh, mate.
Speaker 1:If I still look at the industry the amount of people out there that are general pop, that want to go and smash themselves on an assault bike and then do a heavy barbell hip thrust and you know 100 chin-ups in the workout I'm going, oh uh, ask a strength and conditioning specialist. What should I do if I want to improve all these three assets? You know you had someone chatting chatting to this morning that wants to get better at running. Yeah, and also wants to bench 100 kgs. How are you approaching his program?
Speaker 2:um, high level, definitely would not do all in the same day. Um, definitely would split those up in different days and you have to program out where the end goal, where he he wants to be, and then work your way backwards. Um, um. I would definitely do accessory work to help his bench press. I wouldn't just solely focus on it. Right, I'm looking at the shoulder, looking at the back, to build the platform to be able to handle that load as he bench presses. Um, so those will be my focus, um, but I definitely wouldn't do it in the same day and it would be periodized and it's a lot that goes into that. I wouldn't do it on the same day is my short answer. Like a WOD, I would probably run two to three times a week maybe, bench press. You wouldn't max effort every single time. You would do some dumbbells to get some volume. So it's a lot that will go into that and it's not going to just be a straightforward answer and I think that's what everybody needs to understand.
Speaker 1:You know, I think aspirationally general pop particularly, but even athletes, even athletes um, they want to get whatever outcome. You know, they've read somewhere that this person runs this or benches this or lifts this. I want to get that, to get that. This is a whole process. You've got two degrees and 12 years of experience to go. Hang on, we need to systemize the thing and build out a plan. Yeah, work away at it, small little bits at a time. Um, rather than do it and do it a lot and sprint there and hopefully we get that, you're probably going to be chasing, chasing your tail and not actually getting it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Sorry, it's not going to be immediate. It's going to take a while, especially if you want to hit those big goals. So, hopefully, getting them to understand that it's not going to be immediate and it's going to take some time. You may have some steps forward and one step back, but we're still going to trend in the correct direction. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Let's step back, but we're still going to trend in the correct direction. Yeah, absolutely, let's talk through, uh, just to bring things home future goals and visions for yourself. You know you're 12 years into your career. It's, um, it's. You've done a lot already. Uh, what does the next five ten years look like for you? You've obviously got a family. You've uprooted everything. You know you've come from a sport that you know. Yeah, you've. You've started again. Um, I can imagine the challenges are significant. What excites you? What's the next five ten years look like?
Speaker 2:um, I would say five to ten years is continuing to build the, to develop relationships here in australia. Um, positive relationships don't burn any bridges. Um, and I'm I think I'm pretty good at that um and continue to get my name around by the work that I do. That's what I want to be known for is the quality work that I'm providing and the experience that I'm and the joy that people are getting working with me and continuing to grow my name.
Speaker 2:I don't need to be the number one in this realm, in the world. That's never my goal. My goal is to help as many people as possible and I'm going to try to do that each and every day. Yeah, I haven't really rethought about my goals here in Australia as of yet. I'm just still settling in, only been here for less than 10 months, so I'm just taking it one day at a time, right now with the family looking, trying to purchase a home. So that's the next goal and then from there, continuing to branch out in the strength and conditioning world and get my name around. And you know, hopefully if people want to come get really, really good rehab work, they'll seek me out.
Speaker 1:And come and get stuck in. Yeah, I love it. One piece of advice you wish you received at the start of your career that to get to the top of strength and conditioning.
Speaker 2:It's going to take a very long time. I was looking for instant, you know, head job within getting into the career within three or five years. No, that's not how it works. So keep chopping at it, keep building and keep learning and that'll take me to where I need to go. So it's going to take a while, but just keep going at it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I like that, if you could leave listeners one piece of advice, one key takeaway about the value of strength and conditioning, not only in an athletic pursuit if they're an aspiring athlete but for the everyday person that just wants to get a little bit more out of their body, their life and whatever they want to do in the future. What would that be?
Speaker 2:You only have one body, you only have one vessel. Take care of it as if your life depends on it and try to prevent as much damage as possible by continuing to train, continuing to work out, continuing to develop your body Because, again, you only have one of those and you try to make it last as long as possible. So, continuing to do those type of things, and there may be some shortcomings, with injuries, don't let that change your mind frame. It's just one step back, but you're going to continue to get over that hurdle as long as you continue to push yourself.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Darius Reese, thank you very much. So I think this is going to be one of many Really excited to have you on board at SOFT, really excited to have you in the Australian strength and conditioning community. I think we're really lucky as a whole community and as a nation and I'm really excited for what's to come in the future. Mate, the hard work you've done, you've done the due diligence of 12 years, I think it's only, it's only up from here. So thank you very much for your time today.
Speaker 2:No, I appreciate it. Like you said, it's more coming and I hope to be here for as long as possible and educate people for as long as possible and getting the best out of each and every person. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Too good. Thanks, mate. Thanks for listening to today's episode. For more regular insights into SOF, be sure to check us out on Instagram or Facebook, or visit our website at scienceoffitnesscomau. Once again, we thank you for tuning in to the Science of Fitness podcast.