The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
S2 EP 19- Exploring CrossFit's Evolution Through Exercise Physiology w/ Matthew Drew, CrossFit Coach and SOF Exercise Physiologist
Discover the unique journey of our newest team member, Matthew Drew, as he transitions from South Africa to Australia and brings a fresh perspective to the Science of Fitness podcast. With an impressive background in CrossFit and exercise physiology, Matty shares insights from his experiences in Durban and Ballina. We dive into the cultural exchanges and explore how CrossFit can evolve by integrating principles from exercise physiology, emphasizing strength and conditioning.
Join us as we navigate the nuanced differences between CrossFit as a sport and exercise physiology as a scientific discipline. We explore the importance of balancing high-intensity training with overall wellness. The conversation highlights personal fitness passions, such as mobility in strength training, and examines competitive athletes' contrasting goals with those pursuing general health. Matty sheds light on how listening to one's body and setting long-term goals can prevent overtraining and foster continuous improvement.
Get ready to explore training optimization for sports like CrossFit, rugby, and swimming, and learn how integrating weightlifting, conditioning, and gymnastics can enhance performance. We discuss the critical role of foundational exercises in improving quality of life, particularly for older adults, and the risks associated with competitive training. Matty and I also delve into the benefits of community in fitness, using wearables to manage fatigue, and the art of balancing life stressors with training intensity. This episode is a treasure trove of valuable insights for anyone passionate about achieving peak fitness and wellness.
Welcome to the Science of Fitness podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life, as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, fitness, performance, business and wellness. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast, and this is an exciting episode for us. We have Mr Matthew Drew Soft's newest recruit on the episode. Matty welcome, thank you. Thanks, mate, it's a episode, matty welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks, mate.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure to have you mate Now. Right off the bat, I need to confess something to you when it came to making the decision, you know, do we bring Matty on board, I was a bit reluctant, mainly because one, you're also African heritage-wise. Two, you're bigger than me, more handsome, you've got a deeper voice. You've got a deeper voice, you've got cool tattoos and you lived in ballina for seven years. So I said to joe, everything that I am in this place to everyone is going to look like nothing compared to you. So I just want to sort of clear the air.
Speaker 2:I don't know any of that. Is true at all thank you.
Speaker 1:That was, you know, as part of it, joe said what's your reluctance? I said, joe, it's personal and anyway, here we are. So, joe, it's personal and anyway, here we are. So, um, very, very exciting to have you not only here but as part of the team um, particularly with your background um in in both CrossFit and then the EP space and then everything else. You've sort of done work wise and it's it's something that we're not um. So you know, I guess that's kind of the approach with this episode is one we'll get a little bit of a background of of your um experience and sort of career journey um. But then the main thing we want to sort of work with is, I guess, as an exercise physiologist and a crossfitter that you know has worked at a sort of trained and performed at a pretty high level in the sport um, what the differences are and mainly what crossfit can learn from an exercise physiology perspective. But to sort of dive into a bit of context about yourself and your journey um, you've been in Australia for seven years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. Yeah, cool September 2017.
Speaker 1:Mate very specific. I like it. Mate, tell us your journey First of all. You know high school and you know schooling. Growing up in South Africa, you moved here. How you experienced that? What got you into the health and fitness industry? What got you into CrossFit?
Speaker 2:Let us have it sure. Um, so, yep, uh went to the one and only durban high school dhs, dhs, that's it. Um, big sport, and uh, footy school. Um played rugby pretty much my entire life coming up, um, and yeah, that's kind of like what got my foot in the door. With regards to, like, exercise, um started training for that so that I could be more effective on the footy field and was pretty fortunate early in my career to run into some pretty high-level strength and conditioning coaches. At school, I think when I was 16 or 17, I had the privilege of training under a gentleman named Brian Green, who was, I think, at the time, an RPF powerlifter. Named Brian Green, who was, I think, at the time, an RPF powerlifter, and yeah, so we trained with him through the off-season four-footy and got really into that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:What position did you?
Speaker 2:play. I played pretty much everywhere in the forwards. I kind of started in the front row and then, as I got, yeah, stayed there until I think I was in year 11 or 12, and then I managed to escape it and get to the back row, which was far more enjoyable.
Speaker 1:Not in the darkness of the scrum. Yeah, okay, cool. And then, school finished, did you spend more time in South Africa? Did you move across here straight away?
Speaker 2:I spent a couple of years in South Africa. I left when I was 22. So right out of school started coaching a bit of union, spending a lot of time in the gym looking after some of the footy boys in the gym. Got like PT certifications and started coaching, yeah, footy boys again, and then doing a little bit of Olympic weightlifting and CrossFit myself, and then that kind of continued to blossom from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. And then what sort of prompted the move to up and leave and come and have a crack here?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, so my dad is australian, okay, um, he, uh, yeah. I come on out with the him and the family for a little bit of a holiday, saw what it was like in northern new south wales it's pretty spectacular and decided that there was pretty much no way that I'd kind of be content to continue living in Durban, south Africa, if that was an opportunity for me to come live here. Um, so, yeah, decision was pretty much made like one week into the holiday that would be, yeah, full steam ahead with regards to moving over, and then within about six months, managed to get on over and get set up in Ballina.
Speaker 1:Awesome, wow, pretty special. And then, how did you find that? How was landing in Ballina, of all places in Australia, the cultural shock? I mean? I remember I was like 13 years old and it took me a long time to get used to Australia, but you know from your perspective.
Speaker 2:How was it? It was good. It's a bit of a kind of surprising one, because there's a lot of similarities between australia and south africa but at the same time, um, a lot of differences. And I think like initially you get changed like, oh it's, it's pretty similar, and then, like the more time you spend like, the more kind of nuanced, kind of like societal things you notice. Um, so definitely like a little bit of I wouldn't say an identity crisis, but like just like kind of getting used to just the way that things work here.
Speaker 1:But all the better for it. Yeah, and so you got straight into work in the exercise industry when you landed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pretty much I actually funny thing I shot an email through to the guys at CrossFit Ballina, lindsay and Aaron Vaughan, some of the best Germans I've ever met in my life. I shot them an email before I even moved down and pretty much like first week that I was in Australia, I got in there, went for an interview and they were fortunate enough to well, they weren't fortunate, I was fortunate enough. So, yeah, get a spot with them and do a bit of weightlifting and CrossFit coaching.
Speaker 1:Awesome, oh, wow, great. And so that's when you sort of got into the industry and, like you know, at least in the Australian context, yeah, had you decided that you wanted to study and go to university at the same time as you're doing that, or had you sort of finished your university studies?
Speaker 2:I'd done a little bit of university studies in South Africa and something completely different, yeah, and studies in South Africa and something completely different. And then when I got chair, yeah, just had a couple of different options and decided to go to the university route just because I had always, always just loved being in the gym. So it made sense to make it lucrative A full career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, awesome, okay, and you went into exercise physiology straight away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I did my bachelor's degree in sports and exercise science and then a master's in clinical exercise physiology okay, awesome, and that was over the sort of four or five years, yeah working as a crossfit coach, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:And going everything else, yeah, cool, very interesting, all right. So sort of leaning into um, I guess, our understanding of, of, uh, of crossfit, um, some of the listeners may have never done it. I think a lot of people have sort of preconceived notions about it. It's been around for a little while now. And I guess on the other side of the spectrum, the ex-phys it's not that they're against each other, but there are certain principles that live and sort of you live and die by in ex-phys that you'd go, oh, I'm not in CrossFit and then vice versa. So I guess if you were to contextually explain high-level differences that the layman may not understand between CrossFit and an ex-phys type program or career, at least like the career conflicts, what would you say? Some of those are yeah, fantastic question.
Speaker 2:I think, as is the case with everything that kind of like identifies as its own kind of separate entity, like CrossFit, and with every exercise-based like ideology, there's always going to be like biases or gaps, and we pretty much see that everywhere. And there's like additional kind of nuance to that, specifically with CrossFit, because it is a sport, so where exercise physiology, like being a science, is going to be like scientific and follows the data well, evidence-based best practices, all those kinds of things. Crossfit, having been around for a little while and having their core kind of ideology and beliefs, um, there's going to be like a couple things that are kind of moving, uh, in the opposite direction of what the evidence would suggest if that makes any sense, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:no, it doesn't, and that's sort of something that we try and, um, I guess, have people understand that are you know in the CrossFit sort of world or interested in it is that it needs to be considered, to a certain extent, a sport. And you know, just like playing a game of footy, there's risk associated with it. Playing any sport there's risk. So something to think about. Okay, so let's jump into a little bit of a rapid fire back and forth and you're going to kind of have to pick one of these, a this or that type situation, and this is for your personal preference, sure?
Speaker 2:um, so, not what you recommend but what you do personally, so um this or that high intensity?
Speaker 1:or low intensity, higher volume. I'm gonna go high intensity, cool, strength focus or cardio focus, strength focus nice.
Speaker 2:Okay, keeping pull-ups or strict pull-ups um strict pull-ups now, oh now nice um amraps or emoms I like an emom because of the psychological kind of side of it it's like yeah, there's nothing like having like a set amount of work that you got to do in a hot time frame.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah snatches or deadlifts oh, not like snatches good answer yeah, um more rest days after big training days, or fewer rest days but more targeted training days fewer rest days, more targeted training days, absolutely um more accessory work over main lifts main lifts. Main lifts, mobility, work every day or just as needed for you.
Speaker 2:For me as needed. At the moment I'm trying to do a lot of strength work for quality and range of motion and stuff like that, and that kind of increased quality and range of motion I've found in the last, like 12 to 18 months, has facilitated pretty great mobility gains for me at the same time, um so cool.
Speaker 1:I want to stay on that for a second because it's really funny. The whole mobility thing. You know, do I stretch my hip flexors every single night? Will I get that result, etc. It's sort of doing strength training in specific ranges of motion, as you just said, and targeting that and sort of working through that you're going to get a better mobility adaptation than trying to do mobility work separate to your training. Have you sort of found that?
Speaker 2:Did you?
Speaker 1:have any sort of evidence or reasoning behind targeting that and noticing the adaptation?
Speaker 2:So at the moment I um the last I checked in the last year there was a good amount of literature that was published that supports doing strength work through that like range of motion, um, and how it has similar outcome measures in terms of increasing your mobility and flexibility as intentional mobility or flexibility work. So when you like, say you're stretching your hamstrings and you're doing like a static hold for like 30 to 45 seconds or like PNF, stretching stuff like that, obviously you're going to make like a significant impact in improving those outcome measures. But say, doing something like a RDL or a single leg RDL through that same range of motion actually at the moment looks like it gives you the same benefit in terms of your range of motion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, provided that the tempo is controlled and All those little details.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting, though, because time is of the essence, absolutely. You know you can't. Most people working full-time whatever they don't have the time to do the strength work that the hamstrings need in the rdls and then spend, you know, 10 minutes on stretching the hamstrings and every other little muscle in the hip. So bang for your buck. Yeah, you're going to get stronger and you're going to get more mobile. Control the tempo, prioritize range of motion, that's it. And if that's your priority, so yeah, for those listeners out there that want to get more flexible but also want to get strong and are really stressed about the time, yeah, get after it.
Speaker 1:Here's a viable solution. Let's dive into it. Crossfit in itself, considering it as a sport, being someone that's sort of gone after it as an athlete in that sport, versus working with people in the gen pop. How would you say the training goals differ for someone as an athlete, a CrossFit athlete? How would you say the training goals differ for someone as an athlete, a CrossFit athlete? How are they focused in competition or approaching competitions, versus those that are just doing CrossFit to be fitter and healthier?
Speaker 2:Fantastic question.
Speaker 2:At CrossFit and CrossFit competitions would probably want to do things in the exact way that they are being kind of assessed and judged in the actual competition and because of that, like their exercise selection, their volume that they do of each movement, all of those variables can be very different to somebody who's training just for their, like, general physical preparedness or capacity outside of the gym.
Speaker 2:So with, like a CrossFit sport, you'll see like a lot of exercise selection that's like very, very specific and nuanced, like very advanced gymnastics, really complicated Olympic lifts and all of their variables and stuff like that, which by all means will be fantastic goals for people who are actually just a general population. But in the sport as an athlete, they're a non-negotiable. You've got to know how to do those things. You've got to have fantastic capacity at them, both in terms of the load that you can move and the volume of repetitions that you can do, versus a general type of person. There's never, ever, really any non-negotiables. It's just based on where you're at, what you can do, what you can tolerate, um, what keeps you pain-free and what makes you happy instead of being able to get the workout done to an extent at your level.
Speaker 1:Um, what can the general pop learn from competitive crossfit and then vice versa?
Speaker 2:um, oh, that's a great one. Uh, general pop can uh definitely learn how to I don't know. Embrace, uh, pursuing like uh, really high school movements is fantastic. Um, even though it's kind of coming to what I just said, it's good because a lot of them take years and having like a good long-term goal is obviously a pretty potent motivating factor because it gives you something to work towards that you can kind of use to keep yourself compliant over weeks, months, years. So that's definitely something that general pop can learn. They're just finding something really hard and trying to work towards it.
Speaker 2:And then, with regards to actual CrossFit athletes, they can learn from general pop how to I don't know, auto-regulate based on how they're feeling. Usually, like general population are pretty good at like saying, ah, I'm not feeling too hot today. I mean they kind of like take an easier day or maybe not push into movement that causes pain versus athletic populations. Like that push into movement that causes pain versus athletic populations. Like they're so goal-orientated They'll oftentimes not all of them, but oftentimes just push a little bit too hard for a little bit too long.
Speaker 1:Okay, interesting and you know, sort of staying on that skill development area. It's outside of CrossFit. I think it's a really important thing for people to understand generally. You know, if you're getting into your training for the first time, I've had a whole bunch of people start recently, about six to eight weeks ago, and a few people in their 60s that are healthy and can move reasonably well but had never really trained Boxed step-ups, unassisted, staying on one leg balance-wise was quite scary and they wanted support, you know, and just have like a bar or a pillar next to them, wall next to them, so they could depend on that if they needed to, versus six weeks later Now they've got the skill and the confidence, balance wise, just to stand up and down. And that's sort of the journey is.
Speaker 1:You know, if you want to do a handstand and you do a six week handstand program and think I can't do a handstand, this didn't work. It's pretty naive to think and, as you're saying, you know, from an elite perspective, I want to work on getting a snatch or a clean and jerk to a specific position because I know it's my weakness within the entire realm of what is CrossFit. You're going to dive after that and work on that for months, if not years, to really stop making that a weakness and you become the absolute generalist. And I think that's morally the big message from the CrossFit perspective of become the best generalist you can be Absolutely. But to be a great generalist you've got to specify. You do In certain areas, you do At certain points, because once you have the skill it's there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. Once you've got that neural adaptation, it's pretty hard to lose it. It usually takes a couple of weeks just to sharpen it back up.
Speaker 1:In your experience. What sort of stands out in that, particularly when you're competing? Were there weaknesses that you went? I need to dive after that. I need to sort that out, to make that a strength.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, everyone's got their little thing that they either hate doing or aren't particularly good at. Usually it's the same thing. But Everyone's got their little thing that they either hate doing or aren't particularly good at. Usually it's the same thing. But yeah, it's hard. It's very much a balancing act and my personal CrossFit prowess, even though I tried really hard, was pretty limited. I've just got to say that off the top. But yeah, it's definitely a balancing act.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're trying to figure out how little of other things you can do to maintain your capacity in it, while trying to shift as much attention or focus towards developing the things that you know that you lag at is challenging. It's pretty tough, um, because we now know that, like, when it comes to, like, maintenance volume for, uh, maintaining that capacity on those other things that you're not actively trying to push, uh, we now know that you can kind of drop that volume down significantly lower and still maintain capacity than we originally anticipated. Um, I'm probably going to butcher the exact numbers, but it's somewhere in like the 40 to 60% of your training volume that you can still kind of maintain. So, like, instead of like keeping it up there like 70, 80% and only dropping it off a little bit. You can drop it back a whole lot more so that you can really push a lot more time to the things that you really want to develop.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's really interesting. So if we sort of consider the hybrid athlete or even just the average general pop person CrossFit or not any realm of identification you want to bloody classify yourself as, let's say, I'm pretty competent at running and I've run for the last couple of years and everything else and pretty good at it. But I've got these overuse injuries that are coming in and I know I need to get stronger. I go and try and squat and I'm terrible. So I need to turn my attention to my strength training from a volume perspective but I don't want to lose my decent ability to run.
Speaker 1:Let's say a hundred percent of that sort of standard running wise, I'd run three times a week and maybe do a recovery run on one day at 5Ks. I do some intervals of 8Ks and I do a long run of 15Ks and the total week is what's that? 28ks? Are you saying it's a sort of 40% reduction of maybe the 28Ks? Does it have to be that specific or is it sort of the total time assigned to running? Because I'm going to be introducing strength training stimulus as I try and improve my movement capacity and strength?
Speaker 2:You probably want to retain the frequency of sessions as much as possible, particularly with running, so that you can maintain that sport specific kind of conditioning in your lower legs and you don't lose much of that. But it would probably look like a total reduction of like total training volume and that's going to be a combination of like intensity, duration, uh, distance, all that kind of stuff. Okay, to that like 40 day, kind of like 60 percent region and it's going to differ significantly from person to person.
Speaker 2:Some people, who've got just fantastic capacity to retain it, will be able to get it all the way down to 40, and other people will require volume to be closer to 60 to maintain it. That being said, when you pass the phase of being able to dial it back so you can push something else, there will be a little bit of a period where it will probably feel a little bit terrible, but then I'll bounce back pretty quick and adapt.
Speaker 1:And that's where the important thing is is this isn't for the rest of your life, it's sort of phasing things into sort of six week, 12 week, whatever, whatever you want to define windows, and it's going to be subjective for what you need and what outcome you want to achieve absolutely. Um, okay, that's really interesting because you know, leaning on your experience CrossFit-wise, was it like you were really strong on the row, strong at weightlifting, terrible at gymnastics, and so you did. You know two or three of those sessions. You've been watching me, I can tell by your gait. I've been analysing you for four weeks.
Speaker 1:No, but I mean it's probably something that people deal with a lot in the sport is maybe they come from gymnastics, yep, terrible at weightlifting, the conditioning elements, or vice versa. So you know, in terms of what a rough week load, a weekly volume load, sort of looked at, looked like for you. How, how did that look at your peak when you were okay, those three rowing up, the conditioning element and the weightlifting element is in the maintenance category. How much of that would you be doing in a week? And then, how much specific skill development in the gymnastic realm would you be doing?
Speaker 2:it's a good question. It's very dependent on the time of year, um, crossword like with other sports as a season. Um, during the season you're probably going to be doing like a lot of like just pure, kind of like a crossword workouts and stuff like that, versus like in the off season or right after the main season ends. You're probably going to kind of like de-structure a little bit so you do like your separate components, kind of like what you're suggesting, like with doing like weightlifting, uh for part of one session and then doing pure conditioning and then doing pure gymnastics and stuff like that. And that's usually the time of the year that people would look to kind of uh develop individual like aspects of their sporting progress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like you'd, probably in the off season again dependent on the person, like if we were having this chat the other day, like for me, example, with my weightlifting I can drop the volume all the way down to the point that I'm doing like maybe like one heavy Olympic lift a week and still maintain my capacity, just because that's the way that I was built. Um, so, yeah, you'd probably try and drop it down. Yeah to yeah as many sessions as you or as few sessions as you can, when you can sustain, yeah, approximate capacity, um and it's going to be nuanced yeah, 100. It's a bit of a tough one to kind of answer, to say here follow this blueprint, and that's where the genetic element just comes in, it's going to be nuanced yeah 100%.
Speaker 1:It's a bit of a tough one to kind of answer, to say here follow this blueprint.
Speaker 2:And that's where the genetic element just comes in. It's fascinating and that's where coaching comes in as well, because you should have a good coach. A good coach is going to be absolutely fun, life-changing in terms of CrossFit and having that open dialogue with them and be like all right, okay, I've dropped this down, I think I can drop it more, or like this is kind of crushing me, it's a little bit too high, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm losing that. I'm losing my strength. It's pretty funny because it sort of applies to a lot of other sports. You know, a lot of our audience are in the rugby union world and you know rugby league world and it's the same thing you know in season don't try to get faster, don't try to get bigger, don't try to get fitter. You'll naturally get fitter because of the exposure to the game, but just stay on the field. That's the priority. Off season work with a coach that can identify areas that you need to be faster, more powerful, maybe bigger, and then dial into those. But have that maintenance of the other factors that might be contributing to your performance in that sport. And it probably goes for all the sports, everything from swimming.
Speaker 1:I've worked in swimming. Swimming is a really funny one because at an elite level it's just volume, volume, volume, volume, volume. And then we've just seen Cam McAvoy win an Olympic gold in the 50-meter sprint as one of the oldest persons to ever do it. Why? Because he went. Makes no sense doing heaps of volume when I race for 30 seconds, 20 seconds. Dream to race for 20 seconds in swimming. Um, but um, he went. I'm going to do gymnastics, I'm going to do strength. I'm going to prioritize that, and he did that for a long time and then reduce the swimming volume like crazy, which in the swimming world is like sacrilege. It's like don't do that.
Speaker 1:But he turned around and said here's the science. Logically, this scientifically makes sense. So I'm going to try. What's the worst, I'm an old guy and I don't get the result. Well, I didn't get it because I'm old. Turns out, he got the result and it worked. And so you know, it's probably something that a lot of sports can learn. And then the general person that's trying to get better in a certain area. You know, don't try to get better at everything at once. Yeah, pick your battles. Pick your battles, be specific, set a time frame. The best thing about exercise in general is it's going to be a slow burn, it's going to be a slow return and coincidentally that, just you know, philosophically, can roll into anything else in life, from finance to learning a skill, to being better at your career. You know, dive into the little area that you want to develop from a strengths perspective and maintain the other stuff and then go from there. But don't expect it's going to happen in a quick turnaround and don't do everything at once.
Speaker 2:And like the perfect example of that like on the macro level is like when you're working on like a specific aspect. That, like on the macro level, is like when you're working on like a specific aspect of like a lift. Like what do you do if you want to make the whole thing better? You dial in on your specific little like niche parts of it and you work on them individually and then you piece it all back together and then the whole gets better.
Speaker 1:It's like if you're doing a snatch and you're weak off the ground you do heaps of pulls to the knee and then then, yeah, maintain all the other things and then it's going to move them, comes in the right direction when you sandwich them all together. Good, look at us solving all the problems. Um, if we sort of consider the crossfit competition element and I guess what competition does in terms of people realizing new ceilings of their capacity it's a beautiful thing to experience for anyone versus quality of life type training I want to feel good, don't want to hurt myself, etc. Realizing new ceilings comes at risk, particularly in physical exercise and training and performance in any way, shape or form. How did you find the conflicts of that learning exercise, physiology, where it's a quality of life, health exercise used as a tool to improve people's life um, versus being a crossfitter and competing and finding a new ceiling. How was that?
Speaker 2:it was interesting um, yeah, because, like, coming up through crossfit, before doing more exercise, physiology works, I like had like some pretty like hardcore beliefs uh installed in me by myself. Um, with regards to like what was absolutely necessary, uh, in terms of like exercise selection, physical output, all that kind of stuff, and, uh, the more I got into like the ep side of things, that, the more you kind of realize that, like, yeah, there there's a couple of things that you probably don't need to do all the time. Like again, fantastic to have like goals to work towards, but in terms of just being a happy, healthy kind of dude, yeah, there's probably a couple of things that you could potentially introduce to your like training regime. That kind of slips through the gaps a little bit in terms of your regular CrossFit programming. Yeah, and with regards to stuff like that, you see it probably most clearly when you work with folks that are kind of a little bit older.
Speaker 2:Like at the gym that I worked at previously CrossFit Balaner shout out we had some uh pretty fantastic uh older folks who are like in their 60s, 70s, 80s and uh, you kind of quickly realize how like for them doing like a squat snatch would be fantastic for them to work towards, but it's probably not the most potent use of their time, so you just kind of like it, distill it back, uh to like its bare bones and make sure that they're focusing on uh lifting a heavy load from the ground and getting a little bit of violent hip extension and even if they don't look like they're ready to take to the platform and it's not sort of going to be perfect, but doing something's better than nothing absolutely and enjoying it and feeling progress as well, without risking injury.
Speaker 1:Yes, fine line there. That's it In terms of the sort of busy professional that's got a career, young, family, whatever it might be. They want to get the most out of their body, out of their health, out of their training and feel fit and have that confidence that comes with training hard and the results that sort of come from that. How can you know one, use the principles from a CrossFit training perspective and then apply that to kind of balancing that whole act of everything that's coming at you in life plus your training and trying to, you know, get fit and stay fit and be strong? What sort of comes to mind in your experience? What have you seen?
Speaker 2:One of the best things about CrossFit is the kind of group atmosphere that you've got and how you can come in and lift some weights with people that you know and you're friendly with and kind of shut off.
Speaker 2:I think especially for, like you said, like a professional with like heaps on the go like one of the things that we'd get like the most feedback on is how fantastic it is to come in and just kind of shut your brain off for an hour of the day and lift some weights and bump some fists at the end and then get out of there. Um, and that's definitely like a fantastic thing. That crossfit does is like we used to have like a lot of like really high performing folks at the gym who would be like super analytical for almost all of their waking hours, uh, and then they just come in and like be able to shut their brains off and just listen to the coaches and do some things and get out of breath and feel good and then get out of there, versus coming into the gym and like having another thing to think about and kind of lead yourself through.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and sort of that community element. I mean, it's really the backbone of what we've got, and you know, we do our programming, we prioritize that and sort of that's what we advertise and sort of sell to people, but underneath it it's the what do you keep coming back for? Yeah, that's it, because I can give you the program to go do on your own. Yeah, and it's the people element.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you turn up for the exercise, you stay for the people, right yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly so, you know, I sort of I remember looking at a CrossFit type scenario when I was 17, starting in the industry, and sort of being in awe of it, scared of it, mm-hmm, um and um, but always real, like sort of knowing shit there's, there's that thing that's sitting underneath it where they, they bloody love it. You know, like community wise, there's a connection thing that's so, so special and it's probably off the the adage of bonding through suffering absolutely, yeah, yeah, shared suffrage yeah, yeah, exactly it's like.
Speaker 1:But there's something to it. You know, I think of the sports that I've played and you know, when you play that game that's really hard and the final minute you lose and it sucks and it hurts and you all hurt the same next time you win. It means so much more Collectively, you have more in common and then off you go and that's the beauty of sport, you know, and I think a lot of Australia is built on the backbone of that, absolutely is built on the backbone of that Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so you know, from a CrossFit and a training perspective, the suffering of shit that was so hard, that session was so hard, but you finished it too, like the high five. It's really pretty special and you know, for those that you know feeling they're missing that in their life, you know I can't recommend it enough to go and find something that's hard in the community and do it and then come out of it.
Speaker 2:Go get some trauma bonding in.
Speaker 1:Exactly Not too traumatic, but enough to make you like the person next to you more.
Speaker 1:There's a lot In terms of the movement sort of capacity. You know, we've touched on it, skill development, breaking stuff down, you know, what would you say, the benefits of mastering fundamentals are, you know, in your experience from a CrossFit perspective, it is complex. There's gymnastics, there's conditioning on rowing machines, bikes. You've got to be able to run, you've got to be able to, you know, do all sorts of different skills at a high volume, at a high speed. You've got to be really strong, you've got to be really powerful. When you are onboarding someone into CrossFit for the first time, there's a big fundamentals element and you know, almost philosophically, what does that look like and why is that so important when someone's getting into training, CrossFit or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's massively important and it's something that some facilities kind of fall short on. Yeah, it's massive. It's everything you want to go like, as with pretty much everything in life. You want to go for consistency before you go intensity right. So you start with the fundamentals. You life, you want to go for consistency before you go intensity right. Um, so you start with the fundamentals, you teach people how to hinge, how to squat, how to press, how to pull all those things and then from there incrementally layer in additional nuance, uh, work through different modalities, uh, and then, once you've kind of really got like a firm grasp of all those things, that's when you start to kind of bring the intensity in, whether it be like speed or intensity through like external load and weight and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's absolutely massive. You definitely want people to be as confident and competent in those fundamental movements before you start to like decrease stability or increase load or increase velocity, all the kind of variables increased load or increased velocity, all the kind of variables. It's all based on that virtuosity is what they like to throw around, so doing the common things uncommonly well, and then, once you've really got a good grasp of that, it's bringing the heat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those principles probably match X-Fizz.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You distill it down to its most basic components, um, and then, based on what the person is capable of uh tolerating, you slowly build them up over weeks, months, years, until they're just uh formidable, formidable yeah, beast, um, from a movement stacking perspective, you know someone wants to get stronger, move better.
Speaker 1:What are some of the tips and where do exercises sort of blend together from a multiple demands perspective and what are kind of your low hanging fruits that people should prioritize at getting right Because it's going to make X, y and Z better?
Speaker 2:Yeah, low hanging fruits, as as always, like we just discussed, like fundamentals, like you want to be able to like, yeah, lunge, uh, like the most reduced version is what I'm going to give you. So, like you want to lunge, you want to squat, um, you want hinge, and then from there you want some kind of lateral movement, some kind of rotation, some kind of horizontal, vertical pressing and pulling. And then one of the things that people often forget is the real niche stuff like abduction, adduction, horizontal adduction and abduction. So you would just want to pretty much explore every joint rotation that you can in the capacity that you can at a load that you you can, and then kind of slowly just push the fences up, hopefully simultaneously, so you don't have to bias one thing too much at any one time. But yeah, it's just a gradual increase of, uh, what you can do well, you sort of think about.
Speaker 1:You mentioned lunges is something so basic. I love the um, the idea and and, I guess, the feeling and, anecdotally, the observation I've seen in people getting stronger on a single leg, improving their capacity to run.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they're like wow, you know, they came in, did Bulgarian split squats for the first time? Or did some lunges without weight, could barely balance, could barely do it by the end of the sort of 12-week cycle. These young athletes are doing it at their body weight maybe 1.5 their body weight for a Bulgarian split squat and strong, and suddenly their max velocity on GPS data has gone up by a metre per second. They're going. You've made me so much less. I'm like well, I just gave you the sort of thing. You did the work. But so many young athletes going to the rugby world in my experience haven't gotten really strong on one leg yet. How many times are you putting two feet on the ground when you're running at max velocity Zero? And that's just the prime example of it. I'm sure you would have seen it, probably in rowing. This is another one that comes to mind.
Speaker 2:If you can squat really well and if you can chin up really well, guess what you're going to do on that row yeah, significant crossover right yeah, it's a squat into a pull that's it, and that's why those fundamentals are so massively important, because they just carry over into everything and it sort of emphasizes that proponent of being strong.
Speaker 1:You know, I think a lot of people think, oh, look at my biceps and my abs, my big pecs, that's strong. Not at all. Being strong is being able to squat really low and come out of that range of motion, be stable and organized in that position. Position being able to pull and push your body weight, you know what you look like has nothing to do with how strong you are, how well you can move, and it sets you up to then successfully go and explore those avenues that you may not have explored or always intended on, and not hurting yourself and falling short of being able to achieve what you want to.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And then if you just want to get obscenely jacked and ripped, after that, be my guest you've got.
Speaker 1:You've got the capacity because you've built it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So, um, if we sort of talk about functional crossover of exercises, um, even movement neglect and overuse, because volume is really the game in crossfit and that you've just got to be good at doing everything so much, particularly when you're competing but even if you just generally like the style of training and you know this also goes into the general pop the change in the industry that I've seen in the last five or six years in terms of businesses and brands bringing strength in as a major priority, why evidence came out that being strong is really good, shock, um, so everyone's throwing it into group fitness sort of situations and scenarios where people are doing it mixed with conditioning and high intensity stuff.
Speaker 1:It's high risk if you don't have strength capacity or you know conditioning capacity, um, but you know the the benefit of these exercises. As we just talked about strength wise and their crossover into daily life, we've talked about some of the sort of important exercises to focus on and the performance-based stuff. What kind of comes to mind in people that you've seen, particularly in the older population, that they've improved their capacity in a CrossFit sense and it's had a really positive influence on their day-to-day life, their movement in general.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's just a really positive influence on their day-to-day life, their movement in general. Just hard to narrow down Everything, everything, all of the above, everything, that's it. Yeah, just the whole thing. But yeah, it's obviously like their capacity in terms of, like their cardio-respiratory output. Like if you can just do all the things that you already do for longer, that's fantastic. And the more that you already do for longer, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:And the more capacity you have in that respect, better your recovery kind of tends to be as well. So then you can kind of not only do all the strength things that you want to, but you can do them at higher frequency and generally just cop it a little bit better. And then, with regards to, like some of the movement, selection with CrossFit and Heart improves your, your day-to-day it's. It's kind of hard to narrow it down because, like you said, there's like such a massive, um kind of spread of different movements that people do, um, but yeah, just like I don't know general lower body strength and capacity is pretty fantastic, especially in older populations, for helping them maintain their functional capacity. Like I mean, I think in the last year they published a study that said that your lower body strength and muscle mass is a predictor of mortality. So having old folks squat and deadlift and lunge and do all those things a couple of times a week, just making their legs big and strong, is going to quite literally keep them out of the grave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, there you go and feeling better about it too. Yeah, and I think that's the important thing. It's the same as all the evidence that's on grip strength and we've talked about it on the podcast before a number of times. It's probably the most spoken about in terms of the longevity space on grip strength, but it relates to the same thing. For me, the biggest thing is like that hinge element seeing seeing someone of an older age being able to hinge really well, use their hips to generate force. It's a simple sounding thing.
Speaker 2:And that one hits home real hard with moms and dads and grandparents is just being able to pick up kids and grandparents being able to pick them up off the ground.
Speaker 1:That's massive.
Speaker 2:The kind of thing that people don't really think about. And then they go home after training consistently for six months a year and they're just able to do, and they come and talk to you about it and you can yeah, you can see the. I don't know the joy, the gratitude and the joy in their eyes. It's pretty special absolutely so.
Speaker 1:you know, if we sort of then dive to the injury risk and sort of entire association with that, you know, as I've said, if you're pushing for a ceiling competitively, you're risking injury in any sport, in any situation From the same population we were just sort of talking about. How did you work to manage the injury risk that's associated? Because if you're doing work to improve your capacity to lift stuff off the floor, there's risk, and what risks are associated and what did you do to mitigate them for that older population?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for the older population and pretty much everyone, because it's just older population, it's the same risks but at a higher kind of strike rate yeah. So a couple of things like again, like distilling the movements, the super complicated ones, back to their bare bones, is super important, and then from there, like the big thing is helping folks kind of like manage their training load and the amount of like systemic fatigue that they're subject to.
Speaker 1:Let's unpack that a bit more. Someone that doesn't know what training load means and systemic fatigue, using all the sexy words today, what, what is that?
Speaker 2:um, so your training load would probably just be like an accumulation of like again, like the total workload that you subject yourself to, maybe like across the week, across the month, that it's hard to kind of put like an actual parameter on it time-wise.
Speaker 1:So if I'm just starting out, I've never done anything, I would go into it. What sort of how do you scale that to manage my training? Is that what you're sort of talking about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you'd always want to start really low, find the person's kind of like a capacity, like you want them to like potentially get like a little bit sore sometimes but still stay fresh enough so that they can continue to come into the gym as much as they need to.
Speaker 2:And in terms of like coming to the gym as much as they need to, there's a pretty robust amount of evidence that supports coming in and lifting weights two to three times a week minimum and then doing kind of like more endurance based stuff, whether it be like high intensity intervals or more kind of like.
Speaker 2:So into moderate efforts, uh, looking at doing like more moderate stuff like two or three times a week and intensity once or twice a week. So obviously that's going to be a lot of exercise for somebody who's really new, but that's kind of like the goal that you kind of want them to start to work towards. And uh, yeah, you just pretty much want to train them to a point that they can continue showing up and make it a habit, because so much of that exercise behavior is just forming the habit so that it's part of your life, so you can continue coming in. Um, and yeah, training, uh, training load and systemic fatigue and stuff like that. Like it's yeah, it's again different from person to person, but it's just keeping them coming in as much as you can, exactly, and that's sort of where that social element comes in.
Speaker 1:You know, if I know I'm going to get that coffee with everyone after and feel bloody good, yeah, I'll turn up and get the exercise part done. You're not just going to skip the gym session and get the coffee, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Even if you come in and you like a like a really low intensity kind of session. That's something that I'd often, um, kind of find myself suggesting to people, because the the kind of uh demographic that crossfit, uh attracts, would often be folks who are just super highly motivated, want to come in and kick goals and crush it all day, every single day. Um, but yeah, kind of informing them that, like every now and then, you need to kind of take your foot off the gas and come in and do a low intensity day so that you can manage that systemic fatigue, which would be fatigue just through your entire body in all the different ways. Yeah, because doing that and successfully managing that is what's going to kind of keep you coming in at like a good impactful consistency and frequency for the longest period of time, and that's kind of how you get to the mountaintop, essentially yeah, yeah, yeah, one small step at a time.
Speaker 1:You know that really relates pretty hard to at least everyone's opinion of CrossFit. For those that haven't done that much of it, where it is go, how to go home? You got to be belting yourself and flogging yourself every session. Um, that's obviously going to have an impact on that long-term progression, purely because of the breakdown that generally occurs if you're trying to hit a max capacity every single session yeah and that's uh.
Speaker 2:There's a bit of dissonance uh between like the original kind of crossfit uh prescription and what we know to be like potentially like the evidence-based best practice right now and back in the day, bearing in mind a lot of like the kind of uh underpinning rules for crossfit are as old as I am. I think greg glassman wrote all of this stuff, or most of this stuff up back in like 95 um, so it's almost 30 years old yeah that was a bit, yeah, that confronted my own feelings there.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, so a lot of that stuff is um, like at the time was uh fantastic advice and obviously like a good amount of intensity is really important. But uh yeah, just like again taking the foot off the gas, going a little bit, not as hard I'm not trying to breathe fire and see blood every single time. It's super important. Sorry, I kind of forgot where I was going with that one a little bit.
Speaker 1:No, no, that's all right, mate. It's funny because, again, like CrossFit or not, just the industry in general is like if you're not flogging yourself, if you're not finding your next best, you're not good at it. And we get this sort of narrative in our head where we need to be going really, really hard and if you're not sweating and busted, you're not going to lose the fat that you want to lose and look the way you want to look, and we know it from an exercise, science and ex-phys perspective, it's probably the worst thing you can do. Yet still, if I look at the industry and this is me going on a rant about it it's the vast majority of the product available from a fitness perspective. Yeah, and it needs to be addressed. Yeah, you know we need better practitioners to go. Uh-uh, not today. Yeah, you know it needs to be.
Speaker 1:I look at it in my own program and I've done it. You've done a primal session with me. I used to do that like four or five times a week, oh my god. And so low back and staying really skinny and not getting strong and going.
Speaker 2:It's a miracle you're still still with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah but bloody good at kick sits and body drops, but just busted, you know, just not not getting better. And then I look at the weight lifting and I chased the double body body weight, back squat and it hurt and it was hard and it was exhausting. Man, I've been training for this entire year. Six out of ten threshold in all my strength work, stronger than I've ever been. Oh good, but I can turn up more. I'm not anxious for a strength training session because I don't have to put a freaking bar on my back that's going to potentially ruin my life. This is kind of how it feels. Ruined my life, yeah, this is kind of how it feels. I'm like, oh yeah, I can just go do that. This rep range of this weight that's fine a little bit increased a little bit. I felt like a six, felt like a five that's fine.
Speaker 2:And sustainability wise, I'm like I feel amazing oh good, yeah, and that's very much a common misconception with crossfit, especially with like high performing athletes as they come in and they do every session 10 out of 10 and uh, oftentimes that is probably more the case with folks who don't do as much time in the gym, so you're more general population.
Speaker 2:Reason being is that these top-level athletes are coming in and putting in three to six hours a day and there's just no way that you can do that at maximal intensity every single time, versus folks who are coming in and doing a 45 to 60-minute session. They're more likely to go balls to the wall the entire time, to go just like, yeah, balls to the wall the entire time. Um, but yeah, it's for high performing athletes and, uh, even for general pops. Uh, it's more about training to your maximum recoverable volume versus going to your true, true max. Generally speaking, when you're training, you want to go to that recoverable volume as much as you can, um, and then save the true max stuff for when you're on the competition floor and you, like, got people shouting your name, you're ready to really get off.
Speaker 1:Rip the bandaid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it, and it's something that, like, people are becoming more and more aware of, just in the general kind of cross routine and also just an exercise science scene is, yeah, again, training to a level that allows you to keep coming into the gym, because that's how you're going to get to that kind of best result question I was going to ask is what do you know?
Speaker 1:how do you know what that level is? You know, like I'm a big wearables guy. Good question. You once have been and, as you said, get too obsessive, but, um, this is my own, my own insufficiency. Um, how does someone know?
Speaker 2:um. So wearables are fantastic. As you said, heart rate variability and stuff like that is a fantastic tool.
Speaker 1:And so if someone's HIV resting heart rate, respiratory rate is not plummeting but gradually just getting a little bit worse, they're probably pushing the envelope from a training perspective too hard.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And if you just there's like that aspect of it and there's also like the more kind of like subjective measures, a lot of folks that I've spoken to kind of employ both simultaneously and have done so for years to a pretty successful kind of level. So they'd like wake up, they'd have their HIV accessible to them through their wearable, they'd suss that out and obviously that gives you like a rating, whether it be green, orange, red, um. And then they kind of cross-reference that with their perceived level of fatigue and say like if both are green, get after it, do like eight, nine out of ten every day. Once orange drop it down a little bit, both orange drop it down even more if, uh, one's red, have like a low intensity day if both are red stay at home, just have a big sleep yeah so using both are pretty fantastic.
Speaker 2:That's a good way to do it. And then the other thing is just like when you get into the gym, how things feel. Um like, if it feels like super shitty, take a day off yeah, listen to it.
Speaker 2:Do a low intensity day or give yourself a prolonged warmup, see if you can kind of like gradually roll up into it. But if it's still feeling pretty ordinary, then just listen to your body. Um, what's the? What's the term? Uh, auto-regulated, uh, deload is uh what people like to throw around, and there's again pretty fantastic data that's come up in the last year to support that actually in favor of pre program deloads. Okay, um so yeah, utilize all the tools you can use your wearables, do your subjective measures. Talk to your coach.
Speaker 1:Talk to your coach yeah, look at your program, okay, and so you know. Let's say the program is a six-week program and volume and capacity peaks at four and five. You can do a lot of work in those weeks but you roll into them feeling pretty, pretty knackered. A six-week program and volume and capacity peaks at four and five. You can do a lot of work in those weeks but you roll into them feeling pretty knackered. You've been working lots, whatever else has happened in life. That auto-regulated, delayed principle is don't ask that question of yourself Is that kind of what you're getting at?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you roll up, for example, you roll up and you like double, or hopefully if you double reds, you're not coming to the gym. But if you're kind of like a little bit on the fence and you come on in, yeah it would be. It'd probably look a little bit like dropping down to that kind of maintenance training load that we were discussing earlier that we were discussing earlier. So, instead of progressing with your numbers and adding to that compounding fatigue that you're already experiencing an excess, of dropping it down to maintenance so that you are doing enough to kind of keep the lights on but not actively adding to that excess fatigue, that's kind of railroading your capacity to train.
Speaker 1:And it's a really important thing for people to consider is the other factors in life that are contributing to that. Absolutely, you know, and yes, okay, we can control the training volume and the luxury of an elite athlete is that's it. You should have nothing else in your life that's going to make you accumulate more fatigue. But for the rest of us, like life's happening, and if suddenly work's hectic on your deload week, well, it's not a deload week anymore, whether you like it or not.
Speaker 2:Or fills up the same cup right.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So you know, a really important thing for people to consider CrossFit or not, training-wise in general, if you're redlining the volume in one area of your life, maybe you don't redline everything else, or else that's where crash and burn happens Exercise physiology principles, to sort of bring this thing home, that, um, I think we've touched on enough that could be integrated into crossfit. But what's sort of at least what I've taken out of this is they're probably already sitting there. People are a little bit scared to to go yeah, let's put that into a program and make those decisions. Like I'm doing crossfit, I'm going to go as hard as I can, because that's what CrossFit is. I guess the message to the gen pop is look at it and listen to your body and apply these principles that are really underpinning an effective CrossFit program Absolutely so that you can get more from it ultimately.
Speaker 2:Yep, and the other thing that I do is, um, along with all the stuff that we've already spoken about, is there's probably like a couple things that would be a little bit mindful in terms of programming. So, like with crossfit, like there's it's such a broad, uh kind of practice or sport that like there's heaps of different interpretations in terms of the programming and again, this would be, the programming is dictated pretty strongly by the competitive side of the sport. So competitive athletes are obviously like bound pretty tight to doing those things so they can be better at those things for competition. But when it comes to uh kind of potentially rehabbing or managing injuries for those high performing athletes and then, more importantly, for your general population folks, there's probably a couple things like as somebody who programs for crossfit or follows a crossfit program could be potentially a little bit more cognizant of. And that's like, for me the biggest thing, other than what we've already touched on, is just being a bit more balanced in terms of the joint rotations and movements and exercises that you would potentially prescribe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And a lot of that is kind of running into issues due to CrossFit's kind of.
Speaker 2:There's lots of variation in it, obviously, like constantly varied functional movements, high intensity, all the things.
Speaker 2:Um, a lot of the movements, even though they're varied in terms of like the modality so like dumbbell, barbell, sandbag, all that kind of stuff still follow the same kind of joint rotation and even though you're getting good variance, which is going to be potentially a protective of injury, you're still hitting the same movement at sometimes really high frequencies. So, for example, like you might deadlift on monday and then you might snatch on wednesday and then you might do like sandbag cleans on friday and then you'll do something else that's very hinge heavy, uh, on saturday or sunday. Before you know you're like hinging four times in a week, which is, uh, fantastic. If you're really trying to push that, like we spoke about before, like if you've dropped all of your other numbers down and you're really pushing your kind of like hinging endurance, because that's like something that's been identified that you need to work on, by all means get after it. But if you're a regular person, you probably don't need to do that pursue that much volume yeah, 100 and that kind of happens.
Speaker 2:There's like a couple things in the programming that kind of end up doubling up a whole bunch, and like high volume of hip hinging is one of them. Another one is there's heaps of like pressing and rotating to overhead through the shoulders, lots of like hip flexion, concentric flexion, stuff like that. That is incredible for building capacity. It just probably pops up a little bit too frequently for it to be beneficial to the general population. It's going to be fantastic for them. But the risk to reward starts to drop off once you get above a certain frequency every week. And it's good, it's fantastic to have like a week where you really push that volume every now and then.
Speaker 2:But the problem kind of really becomes a lot more noticeable when it's like week to week to week and then when you kind of cross-reference that with, uh, other movements that are a little bit neglected, um and again, this is just like the biases of the sport, um and like, for an example, uh, it's uh, spoken about pretty widely, but like in crossfit, you don't necessarily do a lot of pushing and pulling horizontally, it's almost always vertical, yeah, um and so if you just want to improve your general physical preparedness.
Speaker 2:I mean you should be doing like every joint rotation you can I mean that's the definition of it is like doing that, um, and yeah, then like other things, like, uh, you don't really do much like rotation or you don't you do single leg work, but probably quite not as much as you would. It's usually like around about once a week, um, and then, uh, like there's not really much dedicated lower leg work as well, like there's lots of jumping and plyometric work, lots of things with like really high velocity. But again, for like more lay folk, you probably want to kind of dial that back a little bit. Still do it so that you have the capacity, but then work on more kind of like tempo stuff and kind of draw from a more, a broader pool of joint rotations as opposed to a broad pool of exercises that may not covering the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if that makes sense Absolutely. You sort of think about it like the runners, as we mentioned. You know if you're just running and not doing any strength to build a system that can run better on that single leg, it's the same with a CrossFit type of program. If you consider your wads that you're doing maybe you're training three times a week you probably need to be doing some sort of strength and resilience building work to handle the WOD the run whatever it might be the footy game on the weekend.
Speaker 1:That's kind of the whole point with strength training and I guess from an underpinning, from an ex-fizz perspective, that's probably the big thing that you would have seen is going. We want to improve their capacity.
Speaker 2:No one's doing eccentric controlled single leg work or they're trying to get stronger upper body, but they're already at their ceiling for like, how much pressing they can do to overhead. It's like, instead of just ramming your head into the wall again and again with pressing overhead, why don't you like mix it up and do some horizontal pressing, because you're going to be really sensitized to that and you're going to see fantastic goals and there's going to be significant crossover effects to all the other stuff that you want to work on and that you know.
Speaker 1:I think that's the beauty of it. In us as a you know, industry, exercise science wise, we've developed this understanding that, oh like, there's layers of cement to this thing that we need to just be pouring. We can go and build the structure in whatever direction it might be, from sport perspective to running to CrossFit or however it might be but you cannot ignore having a good foundation for whatever area you want to specialize in, and you need to come back to it. You know, like a rugby player needs to be strong on one leg, just like the 50 year old marathon runner, just like the crossfitter. We need that sort of fundamental stuff, just like the 80 year old that wants to move really well up and down off the floor, reduce risks of falls. The exercises aren't very different. No, the, the load and the volume and whatever else sure'll vary, but it's one leg and it's simple.
Speaker 2:It's taking that and tailoring it to everyone's individual needs and presenting it to them at a level that is significant or, yeah, appropriate.
Speaker 1:Appropriate causes. Adaptation improves the system to be able to handle what they want to specialize in. That's it, plenty of love. It's a strong message to finish on, matty.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Aaron.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, thank, plenty of love it. It's a strong message to finish on, maddie, thanks, yeah, beautiful. Thank you very much for your time today, man. I'm sure we'll do a few more of these. Um, there's a, there's a lot going on in that brain which I think a lot of people can benefit from, so I'm keen to siphon it out for the next few that's the first time anyone's ever said that to me all right, well, hang on to that.
Speaker 1:You can write it down. Thanks for jumping on, mate. Thanks for listening to today's episode. For more regular insights into soft, be sure to check us out on instagram or facebook or visit our website at scienceoffitnesscomau. Once again, we thank you for tuning in to the science of fitness podcast.