The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
S2 E23 Optimising Women’s Fitness Through Menstrual Cycle Awareness w/ Emily Adams, Exercise Physiologist
What if understanding your menstrual cycle could optimise your fitness journey? Join us as we uncover the world of women's health and exercise physiology with Emily Adams, a passionate advocate and recent graduate in the field. Emily's journey from an inactive lifestyle to embracing strength training offers inspiration and practical insights, especially for those new to exercise. She shares how her experience in an aged care facility and the influence of a dedicated physiotherapist led her to pursue this fulfilling career. Emily emphasises the importance of group fitness as a supportive entry point into the world of exercise, drawing from her personal transformation to empathise with those hesitant about starting their fitness journey.
In our conversation, Emily sheds light on the often misunderstood relationship between the menstrual cycle and physical performance. Discover how her personal challenges with losing and regaining her menstrual cycle, alongside unexpected revelations during a university course, have fueled her mission to educate others on the vital connection between hormones and training. We explore the roles of estrogen and progesterone, debunking common myths about exercise during the luteal phase, and highlight the importance of personalised training schedules that align with hormonal patterns. Emily's experience serves as a reminder of the power of listening to one's body and adapting fitness plans for optimal wellness.
This episode isn't just about exercise; it's about fostering a holistic approach to women's health. We discuss how integrating strength training and plyometric exercises can be tailored to different life stages, such as menopause, and the value of maintaining a strong community within fitness programs. By sharing experiences and supporting one another, women can push beyond their perceived limits and achieve comprehensive well-being. For our Brisbane listeners, there's an exciting opportunity to engage with the Science of Fitness's expanding program, and for those further afield, we're working towards bringing this inclusive fitness community online. Join us for a rich exchange of insights and stories that could transform your approach to health and fitness.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast. We have our very own Emily Adams, on the episode today, and today we're speaking about all things women's health and the women's health program here at SOF. Emily, welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:So you are, I guess, on the ground for us at the Coalface working with the women in this program, and I suppose that's why we wanted to do this podcast, just to give people, listeners, more information about not only the program but, I guess, women's health in general. Before we get into it, we're going to do a little rapid-fire series, which I haven't prepped you for, as I love to do, and this I want you to answer authentically, anne. What would Emily do? It's more a preference thing, so strength training or a cardio session, any form of HIIT, zone 2 or anything, pick one.
Speaker 2:Cardio.
Speaker 1:Ooh, a run or a hot gal walk.
Speaker 2:A run.
Speaker 1:Oh, what's a hot gal walk.
Speaker 2:for those that don't know, Just a stroll along the river, looking pretty sexy.
Speaker 1:Yoga class or breathing class?
Speaker 2:Or breathing.
Speaker 1:Any day of the week um your favorite soft class to take saturday con saturday, your favorite soft class to do breathing breathing you so wholesome.
Speaker 1:How divine righty. Let's get into it. So you know. For, I suppose, the listeners' sake, let's get a bit of a context about your story, a bit of a background about yourself. You've just graduated exercise physiology very exciting. You are probably one of the youngest persons we've had on the podcast and I guess I want to get into a little bit of why and how you got into the women's health space so early on in your career and yet why you chose exercise physiology and kind of what you see moving forward for yourself as a practitioner.
Speaker 2:Epic. So I think growing up the lifestyle to kind of compare it to how I live my life now was definitely quite different. I was active in the sense of you know, played weekend netball and whatnot, but I don't think that strength training was something that I was introduced to. The way that I saw the gym was like go in, run on a treadmill, feel dead, leave, and then, once I moved out, actually I went overseas. I came back and got a job at an aged care facility and worked with a physio, more so just connected with her, not in an exercise sense. I then moved to Brisbane, I joined a group training fitness gym and I think that was the first time I was like introduced to strength training and I was like, well, you can, you can go to the gym and not leave, you know, with a high heart rate, feeling all sweaty, and it was still a productive session and I think that was the first step to understanding how good you could feel um post session and.
Speaker 2:I think that was so. I think that's where I often get in my head a little bit about. I wish that I grew up with an athletic background, like here I am as an exercise physiologist, but I think that it's almost a superpower in the sense that I can sit down with someone that goes I hate exercising and I'm like well, so did I, like I didn't get it. I didn't get when people would go I feel so good after this meal and I was like I don't even know what does. What does feel good, feel like. And then you know you'd see the crazy people on a Saturday doing a conditioning session and then they'd all go and get coffee and the same thing.
Speaker 2:I was like they're freaks, they're freaks. And then it wasn't until I was able to have that contrast between you know, a lifestyle conducive of feeling good, with behaviors that made me feel good, that then I could go. Okay, like I get it. I get that. You don't know what feels good because you haven't been exposed to that. And why would you want to go to a gym class if you don't know how good it is for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's sort of you're almost isolated from it if you don't fit into it and you don't identify with it as well.
Speaker 2:And the starting steps is so scary, like I've got a few family and friends that across my career at uni I've, you know, tried to help introduce to this space, and the same thing it's like if you're in a place where you're isolated. I think a group fitness gym is just step one. I don't think I would recommend anything more than a group fitness gym for the sense that you're supervised, you've got people around you. I think the accountability is such a big one. You know you go to the 6am class. Everyone there trains at 6am every day, so they're almost expecting you, even though they'd never say it. And I think that's kind of step one and it was for me, and I think that, yeah, that's something that I'm grateful to have experienced, because now I can sit back and resonate with clients when they don't, you know, want to train six days a week yeah and so forth.
Speaker 1:So when on that journey you know, you went overseas, you came back, you worked in an aged care facility. You did some work with a physio that was in the aged care facility.
Speaker 2:You're working alongside the physio for the aged care I was working hospitality at the aged care facility and she was just an amazing lady and I was just inspired by her and she provoked you to go and she did-phys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually physio. And then my intake was like 99.6 was the lowest that they took at UQ for physio and I was like, okay, well, I'll just go one year ex-phys and then I'll transfer across. And then I kind of took a step back and was like I'm loving first year, I love this degree, I love it. It feels quite emerging and I kind of want to be a part of that. And so then I stuck it out. I decided that it would probably be a bit smarter to go whole undergrad and then do a master's in physio but I was still interested by that by the end and then do a year just for fun. Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then still study for five years.
Speaker 1:Oh cool. So yeah, okay, very interesting, I didn't actually know that. So you know, in terms of the latter part of your degree, you obviously started working with us and being exposed to women's health, particularly through, probably, this group, fitness Lens, as you've mentioned. Was there a particular moment or sort of story or something that really lit you up, a particular point that made you go? That's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, for me it was. I think it might have been the first testing block of last year, if not the second, and it was the end of the 12-week program and we had I've spoke to this story a couple of times, but we had three women within this space of I think, two days, sorry who were warming up on the bar, ready for, you know, they'd worked for 11 weeks, they'd built up, they'd tracked their weight, they were ready to go for their rep max and they jumped under the bar for a warm-up and you know you get the side eye of like oh, it's feeling pretty heavy, and then from there, you know, went to go for their rep max and, you know, shortcut it by quite a lot. I asked all three women if they knew where they were at in their cycle. All three of them did and there was 100% success in either they were a couple of days before their period or on their period and I just responded with well, that would be why Not really knowing? I mean, at uni you have, I think it's half of a lecture in your whole four year degree um specific to women's health. So I kind of knew that there was something about that that would have affected it and kind of just gave them peace of mind and then went okay, I would love to understand why, and you know I see my job as the educator. So I went away and I deep dove a little bit more. I did the staff education session, which was speaking to the effect of the menstrual cycle on performance to the guys here at SOF, which I think the response to that probably was the lighting of the fire. The response to that probably was the lighting of the fire, I think, not realising how taboo and misunderstood the topic was amongst people that I thought were, you know, some of the smartest in the industry. I was like, oh, okay, this is a bit of a niche and I'd love to be a part of the next movement of educating people. At the same time, I was navigating my own female health issues and I think, if I was to reflect, education was at the core of me then actioning.
Speaker 2:To give a little bit of a context to it, I went on the pill when I was 17,. I believe 17, 18. Was on that for two, three years and then I went off it. I lost my period, which I was convinced was just because it was a transition off the pill, was told to give it six months. My body would realign and everything would be okay. It then got to 12 months and I was like, okay, nothing's changed.
Speaker 2:I went to the doctor and she kind of told me to wait it out for another six months which is just crazy, um and to stop training. That was the other thing, because I'd that at the same time that I'd come off the pill, I then got into fitness quite heavily and so she was like, ah, you're overtraining. And I was like, okay, you're the boss, like whatever you say. So I tried to back it off a little bit. Six more months passed and she said to come back.
Speaker 2:I'd actually love to know the science behind this, but she told me that I had to go on a pill to induce a period, because women need to have two cycles per year. So then I got all my bloods done and all of that was fine, which was almost. I was almost gutted by it, cause I think a part of me was just chasing a diagnosis or an issue that I could then kind of just front. But when everything came back clear, I was like, okay, well, this is awesome. Like is it all in my head. I spiraled a little bit there. I think then the next part of the story would be the breathing class.
Speaker 1:So you were what? 18 months, nearly 24 months in, Sorry, no.
Speaker 2:So all my bloods. The six months later I got all the blood tests done, everything was clear, and then I was like, okay, well, we'll just wait it out. So, this is six months after. I think it was two and a half to three years was when I did the breathing class. Yeah right, Is that a trick?
Speaker 2:Yeah something like that. Three years, I think it was we worked out, and so then I came into the soft breathing class and the first it was the first session I'd done it was the Friday night. And then I woke up. Sorry, at this time I was working with a kind of holistic dietitian who was trying to teach me to downregulate and she tried to encourage me to go to yoga classes, which I was doing but I just couldn't switch off. My brain was just a million miles an hour, a little bit of pilates, just trying to go more of the low intensity route. Then I decided to do the breathing class.
Speaker 2:That was the Friday, woke up this Sunday and for the first time in three years I had a period. I then told her and she was like I've been trying to tell you this, like that's exactly what it would have been. I think a little bit in the back of my mind I was going it was a coincidence like what are the odds? And to be so quick as well, like less than 48 hours later I then had I think it was two, three months between breathing classes, just due to my work schedule, and then we actually organized the run club breathing session. That was the second time that I did it. I selfishly brought a bunch of friends in here. We did it on a Sunday night and, mind you, between that first breathing class and second breathing class, I'd only had the one cycle, so I'd again lost two cycles.
Speaker 2:Come the third did the breathing class. By midday Monday, I got my period again and I was like whoa, what is going on here? And so I think for me it was definitely the start of better understanding my systems, how they're connected and what was potentially at the root of it all, because it obviously wasn't the training, it wasn't food intake, and they were the two things that were flagged. And so it was kind of like, okay, well, let's, let's deep dive, let's go further. You were very integral in helping me understand what could be going on, and I think, very integral in helping me understand what could be going on, and I think, yeah, that started my whole journey of wanting to deep dive into women's health, because it's just not taught.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's sort of that sliding doors. You know One, you happen to happen upon this degree.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Without really intending on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally, it's just a little stepping stone.
Speaker 1:Hang on, I think I might like it.
Speaker 1:Two you go, and strength train and, you know, build suddenly this passion in a way that is unique to you. And then, three, you then go through this own sort of personal experience. And then four is you do some education internally with a team of people that you regard as experts and you're teaching the experts, yeah, which kind of you know accumulates into a pretty special little, yeah, skill set, which is which is quite interesting and it's an important thing, I think, for a lot of practitioners and aspirational practitioners to hear is you might look up and go, oh, he knows, she knows, they know so much more than me. Am I ever going to be any good?
Speaker 1:It's like, hang on. Your story, your experience, your whatever is invaluable and there are going to be a large number of people that need a person like you, in your situation, with your story, that they can relate to and work with.
Speaker 2:I think it's funny. On that note, I think it's very intimidating. Being a female I mean soft is unique in this way. But just in general, broader lens, being a female in a male dominated industry, I think it's very scary. Like I think back to my first job in the industry. I was at a group training gym and same thing I would look around at all of the guys you know big, small, bulky guys and I was like who am I Like? They obviously know what they're doing. Who am I to cue them or tell them? And I think the presentation to the staff was so integral in that regard because it gave me the confidence to be like, okay, back yourself, like you know what you're talking about, you've done the work. But it is scary, it's so scary.
Speaker 1:It's so funny because our eyes play tricks on us. You know, we look at people and they look what we think they should look like and they look like they know what they're doing. 90% of the time they don't.
Speaker 1:They don't at all and it's hilarious and it takes a little while to learn that, and I think a lot of people walk away from the industry and walk away from their own training or their own experience because they are made to feel a certain way by the way someone looks. So that part's really interesting. But I guess if we were to stay on that topic a little bit longer. But I guess what other problems exist within group fitness? And then I guess what other problems do clients or potential people that want to get into training bring to group fitness that they need to leave at the door?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think if we were to stay on the women's health lens. Yeah, I think if we were to stay on the women's health lens. I think that a lot of women don't have the education or the tools or the resources to understand how they can best train, and I think we've been made to use males as a blueprint and it's kind of not in our best interest. I think there's so much to know and understand as to why your body feels the way it is, why it works the way it does, and if we can understand that I think you look at a group fitness class. I think there are ways that you can tailor it to be a little bit more inclusive of women. How to navigate that. That becomes a little bit tricky, but I think there are still options.
Speaker 2:You know you've got things like your team builder app and it's like imagine a world where we could track people's weights and at the bottom, we could have what day of their cycle is and then start to create these trends and patterns. And you know, I'm sure we'll speak to this a little bit later, but we are so different and we can't sit back and go. You know, on this day of your cycle, you need to do 60 kilos on your deadlift. But it's like, and how do you feel at that phase? And then, how can we tailor your training schedule, still in a group training environment, to be conducive of you progressing? And then, what was the second half of the question? Sorry.
Speaker 1:What do people need to leave at the door about themselves? You know, they do feel intimidated, they do feel scared, or maybe they feel like they need to train a certain way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, especially at the start, embrace being a beginner. I think it's an exciting time to come into a group training class. You're under the guidance of professionals, especially within our environment. Like embrace being green, really like hone in on you know, question the coaches, get them to help you, get them to cue you and learn. I think that's kind of what I would say for the first step embrace being green and really take advantage of the resources that you've got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know, in the Australian market at least, the quality of practitioner is very high. That is better than the rest of the world. Yeah, you have access to people with. You know, in the Australian market at least, the quality of practitioner is very high. It's better than the rest of the world. Yeah, you have access to people with. You know, full-blown tertiary educations in these certain subjects. Yeah, the funniest one for me was in a move class and I was, you know, banging on about the shoulder blade and the shoulder blade can go forward and what's the number one muscle that takes it there?
Speaker 2:And one of the old guys sort of yelled out the seratus interior. You said it last week and I was like, oh wow, you guys actually listen. Yeah, and I think that was something that I again, speaking to, the whole confidence of um being a student and a raw um educator is same thing I found when I started my internship here. You know, I came in and the same thing. Like the clients were talking to each other in lingo that I didn't even understand and I was like here I am meant to be the one educating and I'm like I think you guys are. You know, you've been under that. You've been here for six years. You've been learning from an exercise physiologist for six years. Like you have quite a good understanding of your anatomy, your physiology, the way that you should move and how epic is that they can leave. You know it's not just a cert three run gym where it's like, yeah, bend your elbow, like that's just not how it works.
Speaker 1:And we do have to have a deep understanding as practitioners deeper, but deep enough that we can actually teach people because it's their body and they need to take care of it. So it's kind of the main, most important thing. Speaking of learning a few things high level, quick summary of, I guess, the female hormone menstrual cycle and how it might influence someone's training. How would you summarize it very quickly?
Speaker 2:It's hard because you can go so many routes. What are the hormones? What do they do? Where are they at in the cycle?
Speaker 2:I think to try and keep it as brief as possible you've got, obviously, fluctuations of hormones across the cycle, two main ones. We've got estrogen and progesterone. Estrogen, in the context of training, is responsible for many things. How? Again, you can get all sciencey, but you've got two proteins that overlap as they do that. That's the muscle contracting, producing force. Estrogen is responsible for that process. So you think at a time within your cycle where you've got high estrogen, you're going to be able to produce more force. You then go to say, the luteal phase, the later phase of your cycle, where your estrogen is low, you might not feel that you can produce that power. So when we speak to the testing block, that's potentially what's happening there. I think we can then look at progesterone and its responsibility in relaxing smooth muscle, and so you can look into the path of like digestion, mood, energy and its relaxing properties in that regard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when we were doing the women's health program, we were speaking to estrogen being the first taking the front seat of the first half of the cycle, progesterone for the second, and I gave an analogy of thinking of estrogen in the context of, say, menopause, when our levels are going to drop, or you could even speak to it within the context of women who don't have a cycle, so they don't have these fluctuations. But the analogy went something like thinking of your bones as a brick wall. If we've got like over time, bricks can fall out of the wall, but then we obviously need a driver to go okay, there's a brick gone, we need to replace it. Estrogen is the guy that's on site facilitating this project. So, going for every brick that's removed, we need to replace it with a new one and that's in relation to bone density bone density.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um. So then, in situations where we don't have adequate estrogen, the rate of the bricks falling out of the wall?
Speaker 1:exceeds the rate of it yeah, being replaced, so that sort of speaks to menopause and bone density.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah. To summarize within a training sense we've got estrogen, which is the driver of us feeling good, our bone density, how we can contract and relax our muscles effectively, which is going to be in the first half of the cycle. It takes the front seat. And then we've got progesterone, which is going to be more dominant in the first half of the cycle. It takes the front seat. And then we've got progesterone, which is going to be more dominant in that later part of the cycle, which has a much more calming effect on the body. So it's hard because you can get really engrossed in social media. You open your phone and you've got people going okay, in the luteal phase, yoga only, and it's like, well, no, no, it doesn't have to be yoga only.
Speaker 1:But the reason why they're saying that is because you're going to have that more relaxing, interesting and and I guess you know.
Speaker 1:Coming back to the exercise science principles, it's that it's the last thing you want. Is a um, is a detraining effect? Yeah, and if you were to go to yoga, only yeah, you would, yeah, and so, yes, still do your squat, still do your whatever strength training or even conditioning element, if that's within your, your training, your performance, whatever you want to do, but just decrease the intensity, decrease the load, exactly, and I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:It's it's going okay this week. I don't feel up to it. It's hard because if you were to compare male versus female, we've got these fluctuations in our hormones which happen across a 28-day cycle. With males, this is happening across 24 hours. So it's like they come to train, they don't feel good, give it 15 minutes and they're back. Versus females, it's about creating patterns, trends specific to you, because for me I don't feel any effects once I start my period. It's the days leading up to it. For other people, that whole week is a rider, and so it's like for you where do you feel best, where do you have the least amount of energy and how can we then work with your body, not against it, to go. This is how we can continue training. I did a roadmap with someone on Friday and we created an A training schedule week and then a B training schedule, and so within the A training schedule, it was like this is a week where you're feeling like a million bucks. You go hard.
Speaker 2:This is what a Monday to Friday, monday to Saturday split could look like. But then week B, when you're not feeling, it's okay, let's go. Instead of S&C, we're going to do move in the morning Instead of conditioning. On a Thursday night we'll do Pilates and it's just about. I think it speaks as well to building trust in your body, to stepping back and going. How do I actually feel?
Speaker 1:And then listening.
Speaker 2:And listening, because I think we're built. We live in such a rigid society that Monday squats strength like must do every Monday, but it's like what? If you're not up to that and I'm definitely guilty of it I just go okay, well, I need to do this many runs a week, this many swims, this many strength conditioning, whatever. But I am trying to learn to wake up and go. How does my body feel today and what would be the best option for it?
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because, then it sort of speaks to the wearables like Whoop and the Nora Rings, and then even the period tracking apps and that sort of stuff. That information in hindsight is going to be the most valuable piece of information you can use to inform these decisions, because sometimes you may not feel fine when you're supposed to feel fine and it's like, okay, train through or whatever the requirement might be.
Speaker 2:And, as you said, maybe it's five sets of five this week, not three sets of one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Not, you know really heavy and you know, yes, I'm going to swim five times a week or three times and do it. You might have that Stick with that structure and that's sort of, I guess, something that we talk about a lot is stick with the structure. Just maybe reduce your expectations of yourself within certain phases.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same thing. I go often. I try and coach to go. These are how many sessions? This is what I'd like my week to look like. Let's not put them on days, let's just go wake up, or today I really feel like a swim. That would be in my best interest. Tomorrow I might feel better. We'll go strength and just try and look at it more, yeah, less rigid.
Speaker 1:Yep, but still you know. Still getting the stimulus, yeah yeah, yeah, targeting a specific stimulus and that's you know.
Speaker 1:It sort of, I guess, speaks to where group fitness programs are probably heading is that sort of subjective nuance of you know, don't just turn up and do the program schedule where you're getting flogged. And if you're in a group fitness program that doesn't have the versatility and variability with which you can make more you know, listening to yourself based decisions, then you need to go find one because, particularly if you're in the Australian market, we are.
Speaker 2:it's a wonderful choice and I think that's what excites me about this place is that our programming allows that. I think you go to some other group training gyms and it's like, well, no, we've got a circuit of you know it's really fast-paced and it's not really heavy. You know hardcore resistance training and it's like what's going to happen there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, very interesting, and so you know from, I guess, the menopausal women that did the program and specifically speaking to some of the topics and sort of subjects that were covered, what would be the biggest thing that you saw, that they got out of it, and how would you say it was an interesting one looking at.
Speaker 2:We had a core group of older women and I think the biggest message me personally, I'll speak to them in a second but was the amount of times they reiterated that they wished that they had this information when they were, say, my age. And it was empowering, though, because a lot of them took the stance of now. I have this information, I'll share it to my daughter and they'll share it to my grandchildren and you know it accumulates, but I think the information that they had at the ready when they were my age, versus what I do, it's scary, but it's also most exciting. There was one lady in particular that I did a roadmap with, who frequented MOVE and regularly strength trained, and it was very cool.
Speaker 2:From the start I sat down and implemented a few things into her program to then look we obviously then had 12 weeks together and then how she feels now, keeping strength training at the foundation but adding a little bit more plyometric exercise for that bone density and stimulation of, you know, growth hormones, testosterone, whatever we want to speak to, but making sure that the intensity of the sessions are deliberate. You know, if she's doing a zone two walk, it's a zone two walk, but the second she jumps on that bike. It's an all-out max effort sprint. It's a hit session yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, being really specific, I guess, is the luxury of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I think doing more plyometric exercise, sprint training for her, whether it's mindset or physiological, I think, knowing that she's supporting her body as she transitions into this stage to again, again work with it. As her hormones start to um, the fluctuations start to become a bit smaller. And, yeah, sit back and go. At this point in my life, my training is going to look different, and that's okay, and there's different ways that we can best support.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's no pressure that says you need to train like you once did when you were 20, 30 years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard, though it's hard for the women that have done that.
Speaker 1:And it's a narrative that's shoved in our face. You know, even men that are older. It's like you should be. You should be, yeah, and like lucky for us.
Speaker 2:We have a couple of years of a transition period. You know, males just almost have a.
Speaker 1:Off the cliff. Yeah, your dad's strong and then suddenly you're not. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. And then you know, I guess, sticking on the program for a second, we didn't just do training, you know, we've just talked about load intensity, zone two, high intensity. What other components that sort of really made up or were quite enlightening for everyone that participated, for yourself, um, that were included within the program?
Speaker 2:I think, especially on the chat of menopausal women being the wise mums of the group, I think the sense of community within the team you know had, I think the youngest was what 18, 19, and then we had people in their 50s and I think the program was facilitated in a way that every single person could benefit, whether it was the mums of the you know the quote unquote mums of the group providing their stories and obviously there's so much power in that, to then the young women asking them questions, as if, you know, obviously, experience, there's so much power in people's experience. So I think, coming together as a team of such a broad age, experience, you know, level of knowledge, I think that was so powerful to have all of those different voices coming together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, and you know it sort of speaks to that other side of it from a health and a wellness. It's women's health, it's not. Yeah, okay, I train and I'm fit, cool. Yeah, it's the social health which is really important. You know, we did a lot of psychological-based stuff from a behavioral perspective, because you can have all the intentions in your training but behavior-wise, if you think of yourself a certain way, it's going to have a negative effect. And then obviously nutritionally as well, which there's plenty of information out there and I think that's the biggest thing is probably so much to look at and listen to and read and understand. But from my perspective, what I saw is one and as you just mentioned, that number one probably most influential thing in the program wasn't the program itself.
Speaker 1:It was the people in the program with each other, from an adherence, from people opening up, being vulnerable, and then people trying new things and learning and being brave enough to go and try something that they've convinced themselves that they're not capable of doing, and suddenly they are because someone is going with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was incredible to sit in the last session where we all did some reflection and I think the biggest theme across the board was women understanding a lot more how intertwined both their life stages are, and then exactly what you're speaking to the physiological, the biochemical, psychological systems and how we can't, as women, sit there and isolate nutrition, isolate skincare, nervous system, bone density, skeletal muscle. You know, hormones can't hormones. All of our systems are connected and I think that is the approach that women's health needs to take.
Speaker 1:Health in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly exactly. I think that we can't sit down and disregard how intertwined our systems are. You? Know, you take stress as an example. You experience chronic stress. Your nervous system then becomes in a heightened state. Your cortisol levels go high. Um, you know. Then your hormones are now out of balance. So then you're going to lose your period, and then your bone densities.
Speaker 2:You know it just all, yeah, compounds, yeah, and so and it can be negative or positive exactly, exactly, and so I think we need to zoom out and the message then becomes clear that no system in our body operates in isolation. All of our systems are working together, and I think we need the education to understand at the core, what are our systems doing? And then to achieve a state of true health.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How can we get them to all work together?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In the best way that they can.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I love it. Okay, so then, sort of major take-homes, you know, to the women listening to this that exercise all the time and seem to be doing all the right things and make a serious, concerted effort to do the right things. They train a lot, they eat really well, but they still feel burnt out, fatigued, unmotivated, not as they are intending or hoping, and they're doing all this work. What kind of message do you have for them?
Speaker 2:I'd say zoom out exactly to that note we were just chatting to like is your body fighting so hard because you're putting it under so much stress in an exercise sense that all it's saying is keep, keep the lungs pumping, keep the heart beating, and then all of a sudden it disregards your nervous system, your um reproductive health and so, looking at it within a physical sense, how intense is your training?
Speaker 2:What is the load of your weekly volume? Reduce that if you need to. What are you doing for recovery, like intentional down regulation, not just reading a book? It's like, okay, if you're actively inducing stress in your body, what are you doing to then take it back to a resting state, like closing that stress cycle? Then you can go into the neurological and psychological aspects. How are you further inducing stress on your body Again, what are you doing to chill out? And then, as we spoke to the biochemical, what does your nutrition look like? As we spoke to the biochemical, what does your nutrition look like? Are you inputting enough variety and balanced macronutrients into your body to then be training at the level that you are?
Speaker 1:Absolutely and then the other end of the spectrum to the woman is try to get going multiple times, just can't seem to break through, be consistent, can't seem to get going, is intimidated by the whole sense of training and exercise in general and doesn't like to identify with it. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2:Probably look at the modalities of what they're doing, whether they're enjoying the type of training that they're doing, whether they're just following a rigid program or whether they are checking in to see how they feel and then planning accordingly. I think, as we spoke to earlier, creating trust in your body.
Speaker 1:And managing the expectations on yourself right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean you can put it into so many contexts.
Speaker 2:You see women that take the route of IVF and are so stressed and almost inundated with the whole idea of falling pregnant and then, just before you know, just after they start IVF and the process should not have kicked in, and then they fall pregnant and it's like it's just that psychological, like I can breathe, someone else has got control of it and I think I don't know. It speaks a lot to the female body, I. I mean you could take another example of a woman that trains so dang hard, but their physique is probably not conducive of that, and it's like, well, when you start to unpack their behaviors, food is a huge one. And it's like, well, your body, as I before, is fighting so hard to maintain the intensity that you're putting it under that it's probably stopped metabolising food like it should, and so I think we need to always take that step back and go where are all of our systems at? What behaviours are we engaging in that aren't supporting this system? That then supports that system, and compounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and probably speaks to the side of you know, most people are convinced they need to be doing more and they need to be training harder yeah, it's, it's tough I get it, I get it, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a mindset thing? I think yeah, and it's an exposure thing.
Speaker 1:You know it's just, our industry is riddled with advertising that says do more, be better, be stronger. Do more, be better, be stronger, you're not good enough. You're not good enough. You're not good enough. More, more, more, more, more. So then if you're not doing that it's just like go go go, go, go and then hang on a second. It's just getting that base, I think, is really important and I think a lot of people, a lot of the women that did do the program realised. Oh my God, I am like hard on myself.
Speaker 1:I expect so much of myself, just from a training and health perspective? And why Like? Why Stop and think, zoom out, psychologically, observe, why do you behave and convince yourself of that? So yeah, it's very interesting and I think the funniest thing for me as a male, just seeing it happen is sort of, I guess the willingness and vulnerability and women's health's come a long way. Um, but you know, there's a male side of things with this as well. It's maybe less complex hormonally, but probably more at the core.
Speaker 2:We've all got the same systems, apart from the reproductive yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know, it's really it's interesting and it's and it's interesting that it's evolving in this way and you know, I really look forward to where health and fitness is going and group fitness and the access that consumers have to good exercise and, I suppose, good knowledge um to it is really really exciting. So, yeah, I guess if you were to sort of sum up the top three things that you saw out of the women's health program and that, whether someone has access to a women's health program like ours or not, but they just want to get healthier and be, you know, be happier, whether they train a lot or whether they're struggling to get going, what are some of the sort of the three key messages that we can take from our program that people can take on for their journey within their own health?
Speaker 2:I think education is power. I think that once you have the tools and the resources to then take action on your health, That'll help. Yeah, big time. Two vulnerability Vulnerability is what's a little quote about it. Vulnerability, have you got one for me? Vulnerability, there's power in shared experiences, and I think getting vulnerable makes people feel seen. I think that was a huge one from the program. And, yeah, when women come together, it can become a pretty powerful space, both in the education space, but then also just girlhood, sisterhood, I think Behavioral adherence yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean now there's some of the girls that met through the program going to saunas and ice baths together, and I think that's so wholesome because we've obviously facilitated a space to then share each other's lives and come together, which is quite powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sweet, okay, so education. Education vulnerability and there's a sense of self vulnerability in that you know you're prepared to look at yourself and go. I'm not happy with what I'm doing and I need to go and get help.
Speaker 2:I think that was a big one as well, stepping back at the end and seeing how many of the women had then gone and seen the professionals that came and spoke and done their examinations and had treatment and sessions and all the good things that came from it, but I think, yeah, it's the start. I think we are at the beginning of a new movement for women's health and I think and leaning on community for it.
Speaker 1:right yeah, brilliant Well, emily. I think that summarizes some of the key points quite nicely. I'm really happy with it. We're about to launch the second iteration of the Women's Health Program.
Speaker 1:That kicks off on February 3rd February 3rd. So for any of those in Brisbane listening to this and you are interested, just jump on our website, jump on our socials, you'll see it. The information's there. And for those listening to it that aren't in Brisbane, reach out to us, connect with us. We are probably going to put some sort of online version of um of the program together at some point and say if it's something you want access to and you can motivate us to move something online. Um, that's kind of our goal long term. But I think, as you said, it's a new movement, it's a. It's a really exciting space, um, and you know, to come at it through a lens of, I guess, connectiveness and, and you know, sort of general and overall wholesome wellbeing is pretty exciting and pretty cool to be able to do. So you know, your work in that space has been extraordinary and thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, too good. All right, thank you very much for jumping on and.
Speaker 2:I think we're going to do a few more of these. Oh so scary.
Speaker 1:Sweet. Thank you. Okay, thanks, Sam.