The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
S2 E25 Empowering Women's Health Through Holistic Physiotherapy w/ Paula Hindle
Ever wondered how your mental and physical health are intertwined, or how understanding female hormones can empower your everyday life? Join us for a captivating conversation with Paula Hindle, a leading figure in women's health and physiotherapy, as she reveals her journey from the world of high-level basketball to becoming a pioneer in evidence-based women's health practices. Paula shares her professional evolution, detailing the shift from exercise science to a holistic approach in physiotherapy, influenced by her diverse experiences in orthopedics and cardiac health. Her insights shed light on the dynamic nature of physiotherapy and its crucial role in women's wellness today.
Paula's story isn't just about professional achievements; it also includes personal challenges that shaped her approach to healing. She opens up about the life-altering impact of losing a loved one to suicide, which steered her toward exploring the integration of emotional, mental, and spiritual aspects in therapeutic practices. Inspired by thought leaders like Bessel van der Kolk and Peter Levine, Paula discusses the importance of creating safe spaces for patients to uncover their stories, and the evolving understanding of pain science, where emotional and spiritual growth become essential parts of healing journeys.
Empowerment is a recurring theme in our discussion, especially with regard to women's health education. Paula emphasises the significance of understanding female hormones beyond their reproductive roles, encouraging listeners to embrace their hormonal "superpowers" in all areas of life. We talk about the necessity of individualised health approaches, the transformational role of technology in self-awareness, and the power of supportive conversations in professional environments. This episode promises to offer invaluable insights for anyone keen on holistic healing and the profound impact of education and support networks in enhancing well-being.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast. We have Paula Hendel on the podcast today. Paula, welcome. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Very excited to have you here and, in particular for us, the last couple of weeks and months.
Speaker 1:We've, I guess, been open to the world of women's health From a soft perspective. We've just been all about exercise and quality exercise, science and trying to bring that to the masses. Personally, as a practitioner in working with females, as I've discussed with you before, I couldn't, I guess, solve problems that maybe were being presented in front of me without diving into women's health, and that sort of was the budding process of this. And then, as you do, when you start to look in and you come across all these different you know experts and personalities in the space. You meet wonderful people like yourself, and so here we are.
Speaker 1:But before we go into, I guess, your work currently in the space of women's health, let's hear about your journey, your story. You've got quite an interesting one and been sort of across all ends of the spectrum, so you know from the beginning for you what got you into, I guess. Health first and foremost and then ultimately getting you to where you are now as a physiotherapist, as a practitioner specialist in women's health and also someone that really emphasizes exercise and training for, for females yeah, that's a big question.
Speaker 3:So I can't even remember a time that I wasn't interested in health and wellness. That was just innately in me. I think so as a kid. I was just always into sport and activity. So at school um loved health and PE but also did all the sciences, so initially went in and did a human movements degree, just because at the time I was playing high-level sport. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I had a scholarship at the QIS, so I was training under strength and conditioning coaches and sports scientists and did some prac there and just really I couldn't think of doing anything else other than being involved in sport.
Speaker 1:What sport were you playing? Basketball.
Speaker 3:Basketball was my sport, yeah, until all the injuries hit. Yeah, so did an exercise science degree.
Speaker 3:So that was a long time ago now and I guess back then it's not as big as it is now. So there just wasn't really the work opportunities other than working in a gym, I guess, which there's nothing wrong with that. It just wasn't stimulating, I guess, enough for me at the time. And they had put out the first year of the postgraduate master's physiotherapy course at the time. So I looked into that and, yeah, went down the path of doing physio, which I'd kind of always thought about doing but, you know, didn't get straight into it. So I started my exercise science degree and just kept going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so then did physio and one of my pracs was in women's health. And again, I think I probably started physio thinking I would do something to do with sport but had one of my placements at one of the major obstetric hospitals in Brisbane. So yeah, I got into women's health and spent some time there doing the exercise side of that, because with my background background they just threw me straight into, you know, pregnancy exercise classes and postnatal classes yeah, and is that sort of?
Speaker 1:was that really like intimate pelvic floor control stuff? Was that like let's get you lifting or not lifting weights, but squatting, lunging, moving a little bit more? How intimate was it?
Speaker 3:it's so different now to what it was back then. Okay, so you, you know, in the two decades I guess that I've been doing this, there's been finally science and research emerging actually looking at women, Whereas back when we first started, you know, there's in. I don't know if it's any different now, but in the undergraduate physio degree there's very little really on women's health, which is crazy. We certainly don't do internal pelvic floor assessments or anything as part of the undergraduate degree. And even when I graduated it was, we were doing courses but there wasn't much research behind it. It was almost like someone needs to get in there and see what's going on and just have a look. And it's just evolved a long way since then.
Speaker 3:So in my placement it was mostly just movement. Really, Again, there wasn't even that much science on what is safe for pregnant women in terms of exercise, what is safe for postnatal women. There were certainly no guidelines in terms of returning to exercise, so we were kind of just feeling our way through, to be honest. Yeah, so when I graduated, I wanted to get a broad range of different things. I did orthopaedics, I did cardiac health and post-major surgery, ICU, so a whole lot of different stuff, which was great, and then I actually went out into private practice on my own because I just saw this big need for more specialized physios treating women. So that's basically how I got into women's health and stepped away from sport and athletes, yeah, so yeah, right From a.
Speaker 1:I guess let's take a step back and for the layman to understand, you know, physiotherapy is a pretty versatile profession and a lot of us, a lot of people listening, think physio, sore shoulder, sore back, sore neck, go to the physio musculoskeletal, that's it. There's layers. You just mentioned some of them cardiac, respiratory sort of stuff. You've obviously touched and worked in that sort of space. I guess. What have you taken from those specialties? And you know, let's say, for example, some of the cardiac type stuff. What have you taken from that physio-wise and noticed it's applicable to the everyday musculoskeletal, woman's health type of space, if at all?
Speaker 3:So much. It's a bit like I have huge respect for GPs like anything could walk in and they need to have a little bit of an idea of what's going on. It can be a bit the same with physio, you know, especially our rural physios. We're lucky here in the city where we can go. Oh, I don't do that. I don't treat ankles. I don't treat this.
Speaker 3:But just having an understanding of the disease processes and all the different things that can go on. It's interesting as well when we study physio and medicine is the same. The systems are all compartmentalized. You know you either treat cardiac care or you're a gastroenterologist or, um, you know gynecologist, and we just can't treat like that. We have to be looking at the whole person. So I feel very lucky that I have worked in a lot of the different specialties so that when someone's coming to me, maybe for pelvic floor or whatever it is, we can look at the whole person and all of the symptoms and look at where is the root cause of dis-ease or unwellness. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's not just looking at their pelvic floor. Yeah. And I think that's so important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, and did doing an undergraduate in exercise science, coming from an exercise background, did that influence the way you practised? Did you find you have a bias to movement and exercise, or was that something you did and then it was a stepping stone?
Speaker 3:Probably. I think, when you've got that background and it's a passion for me as well you can't. I mean and the research is just undeniable that exercise is just the best medicine of all. But I think it's almost. I almost find it hard to understand how you could practice as a physio without having a good understanding of exercise and exercise science. And I guess that's where I probably sit right in that gap of being able to cross over, because in an ideal world we'd have people in the fitness industry working hand in hand with physios and vice versa, fitness industry working hand in hand with physios and vice versa, so that as a physio, we feel comfortable passing our patients over when they're ready to, yeah, move into the um, the fitness industry or the wellness space, but maybe also there's a bit of who's claiming what areas as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it just doesn't have to be like that. No, not at all.
Speaker 3:So yeah, but certainly it helps in terms of when we get into the older demographic as well. I'm in an age bracket now where I'm working with a lot of women who are perimenopausal and by the time you get to that age, you've usually had certain things go on with your medical history or your health. So to be able to have an understanding of that broad range of things that can go wrong and not be going oh well, you need to see that person for that and that person for that.
Speaker 1:And the person turns into feeling like they've got something wrong with them. That's right. Let's just get clarity.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent, cause they end up with just this list, shopping list of conditions that they have, that they're identified with. So it's nice to be able to break all that down and go. Well, what are you actually feeling? What is going on for you?
Speaker 1:It's funny from the exercise end of the spectrum and I've almost tried to deliberately keep myself out of leaning into physio and rehab to an extent. Yet so much of the work I do has ended up in that space but not acutely, diagnostically right at the very start of someone's you know problem. But you know we're working with the team downstairs now. We're so lucky we can integrate it and actually work in that sense. But you know my calling is for more exercise science practitioners, ex-phys to have a better understanding of disease processes and diagnosis of injury and everything else. It's not to be the diagnoser but it's to be able to have that conversation so that the physio can trust and so forth.
Speaker 1:And you know I look at it all in physio and ex-science and ex-phys to mix together. Maybe there's a calling to the university to draw a doctorate around it and it should be as hard or as highly regarded as a medical degree. Maybe less the pharmacology from medicine but maybe much more in the molecular science from an exercise and I guess, metabolic process, disease process and understanding that, because it's critical and, as you said, the evidence is undeniable. Exercise helps but the wrong exercise at the wrong time or maybe the right exercise at the wrong time could be also one of the worst things that someone does.
Speaker 3:So there's such a process there, absolutely, and with anything like that, if you're working in a traditional physio clinic, we're so limited by space equipment, things like that.
Speaker 1:And even the patient's perception.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's right. Yes, that's right, that's right. And and we want them lifelong in either a health facility or somewhere where they're continuing on. It's not you're going to exercise for this period of time and then you're done complete and you're fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, it's a lifelong process. How long did it take for your understanding to go? That's it, if we sort of summarize what you've just said we've agreed upon. Was there a particular point where you're like this has to be one and the same? We have to be looking at the problem that's presenting, zooming out, addressing a cause and then putting in a system in place that has pillars to address the cause. As we work slowly to solve the problem, the patient's motivation is high because the problem persists and solving that problem is great. But then actually, you know, was there a key moment or did that just gradually grow and grow and grow? No, you can't not practice like that.
Speaker 3:I think it just continues to grow. The more you know, the more you realise you don't know. Not the first to say that on this podcast. It's true, though. It just continues to grow. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know yeah, absolutely so yeah, yeah, and I think that's important.
Speaker 1:They're the health professionals I would want to see, to be honest, that are saying that, yeah, absolutely, yeah, your, if you will practice, not necessarily in a physio sense, but I think, um, both in the exercise sense and the populations you're working with. Now you've sort of brought in for lack of a better term holistic. I think it's been butchered by marketing, but there is value in understanding what that means. As you've just touched on neuro, um, you know, psychological, biopsychosocial, that whole principle, um, that's become a big part of your practice and and I I guess what you're working with in the populations you work with, again, what took you down that route, particularly to lean into a bit more of the yoga, meditation, breathwork type of space, and when did that come about?
Speaker 1:Was it key moments? Or again, was it gradual?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it was. It's a combination of things. So again, I feel very lucky with my experiences through high school, being affiliated with the Queensland Academy of Sports, so we were under sports psychologists as well. So mindset was always instilled in me which I probably took for granted for a really long time because I grew up with it as a teen. It was just in me and I thought that was just normal. I came to realise it wasn't so. That side of it was always there and I've always been the kind of person to you know, have these motivational quotes and I've got them on my kids' desks and things like that to the point where they, you know, take the piss a little bit now because that's just what I'm like Mum drops us off and gives us a motivational speech before we walk into school.
Speaker 3:I love it, but I had a big life event. My husband actually suicided when my kids were two and four, so he was very unwell obviously leading up to that and just watching that experience I really I could really see through avenues we went down in terms of his healing and trying to get him better, that it wasn't just one specialty that was going to be able to do that. It wasn't just the old school. There's something chemically wrong in the brain. There's the mental aspect, the emotional aspect, the trauma from past experience, which we know now from the ACEs study that people that have had childhood traumas are much more likely to have poorer health outcomes. None of that can fit into the basket of one's specialty and I went down a big rabbit hole when he was unwell. I certainly went down a deeper rabbit hole after, because I just have the brain that needed to understand it. I just needed to understand what takes someone to that point Again, someone like me who's come from this like strong mindset approach like why would someone do this yeah?
Speaker 3:wow.
Speaker 3:So that definitely took me down more the spiritual path and there was just something in me that needed to explore that. So I went and did my yoga teacher training. I did a big pilgrimage to India and, as we've talked about, that just takes you down a deeper and deeper and deeper path. And then started reading up on the work by Bessel van der Kolk and Peter Levine and all of the trauma and somatic therapies and actually just intuitively made sense to me. So when I would be, I stopped working for a while at that point, but when I went back to work I just completely looked at my patients in a different way.
Speaker 3:You know they might come in even just as a new mum with back pain, but you could look at them and go, wow, what's going on in your life, like what's what's happened to you before. What's your story? And when you give people a chance to speak and and just talk about their life which most people don't, because people are quick to jump in and talk and tell their stories but when you stop and just give people silence which is a big coaching skill to not speak people keep talking and they tell you more and more and more. And I then figured that that is actually when they tell you what is wrong with them. It's not me as the health professional, they're telling me what's wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's so powerful and I've been going for 12 years and it's taken me a little while to understand that 90% of the time, the patient or client or person will present, tell you what's wrong and also almost come up with a solution as to do it. And you're just holding space. You're facilitating an environment, that one they can identify and then two, actually be able to turn it. And you're just holding space. You're facilitating an environment, that one they can identify and then two, actually be able to turn up and do the work, which is ultimately what we need to do. Really interesting. You mentioned spiritual.
Speaker 1:It pops up quite often, particularly with experienced practitioners. They might use different words energy, I don't know. Vibe, for lack of a better term. It's there. We are yet to quantify it. It's quantum physics, maybe something in there. Maybe one day we'll get a number to it and be able to put literature and hard evidence, but at the end of the day, it exists and it's something people feel. You walk into a space, you work with a practitioner, they just have a vibe and it matches. It's amazing that you know. Do you think it would have taken such a significant life event to make you consider this as a professional, or do you think you were going to head that direction anyway?
Speaker 1:just with this need of understanding and realising we get to a point where there is nothing quantifiable, but it's a. It's a thing to feel and let people understand that they've got to sort of work with the space that's provided yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a catalyst, that's for sure when you have a big life event.
Speaker 3:But I think things like the advances in pain science are heading that way when we're starting to have to change people's understanding and narrative around. I have pain, so there's something physically wrong at the tissue level. That's a tiring thing to keep doing.
Speaker 1:I mean I had one today where you know I had my mate. He was diagnosed with a bulging disc. We know what's wrong it's like. And my mate, he was diagnosed with a bulging disc. We know what's wrong it's like yeah, and.
Speaker 3:And yeah, what now? Yeah? We can go.
Speaker 1:if it's jabs et cetera, there might be a surgical intervention that might work. The evidence also says it might not. Yeah, what now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, nothing changes from an approach. You might scan my yeah and you have no pain yeah, exactly so. I think that's. That's a big evolution in science. That's starting to open up a lot of practitioners eyes to okay, there's more to health and wellness and well-being than you know just the physical. It's undeniable, really. Yeah, so I think just the level to which you delve down that path because there's still the perception of maybe it is a bit woo-woo and often it's not, though right Like there's so much science if you actually go and look into it.
Speaker 3:there is so much science behind a lot of this stuff, and certainly ancient wisdom traditions have been saying so much of this stuff for a long time. It's just that now science is starting to give us the evidence that we seem to have to have for everything we do.
Speaker 1:With maybe not a mechanistic explanation, but a causation type effect exists, which is really interesting, and it sort of comes back to the exercise and the movement side of things, which you've obviously had a lot of experience.
Speaker 1:Women, particularly that feel disconnected from their bodies, stress, societal pressure past experiences, as we've talked about, I guess what are some practical ways that they can navigate, that try and build momentum, positive attitudes about their body, positive attitudes to physical activity, but also and I talk about it in inverted U theory all the time not go too far, because we've worked with a lot of people I'm sure you have too where I need to run, do gym and get to Pilates and do something else in a day. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's too far. It's over the other side of the? U, where it's just as unhealthy as doing nothing. What, I guess, are the majors from balancing that for particularly the female?
Speaker 3:population. There's a lot of questions you've asked today.
Speaker 1:I've loaded you up. I can't help myself Pick and choose. It's like a buffet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's interesting, those people that I reckon they're probably the younger demographic too that are wanting to run and do this and do Pilates and all of that. And my question to them is why, like, what are you trying to achieve? What is your definition of wellness? I think, that's really important.
Speaker 3:I like that I will answer the question of connection to self and embodiment, because I see that every single day in my clinic that so many not just women like people are so disconnected to their bodies and it's because they're all up in their head and living in this. I call it conditioning, this programming. So our brains are just a collection of our past experiences and until we can learn those skills in yoga, meditation, whatever practice you want to use, where we can step back and witness that, cultivate the witness and watch what it is, we will never be able to separate ourselves from that programming. So we need to be looking at what are the thoughts that are constantly on my mind, what are my beliefs? What are my beliefs around wellness? What are my beliefs around my pain, my body, this disease I have, Because we can't even begin to move towards wellness until we know what people's beliefs are.
Speaker 3:I had a perfect example of that yesterday One of my patients who was referred for period pain, and I would argue that the pain in inverted commas that she was experiencing is actually normal. It's just that she has a fear of it. So it's being ramped up. But and the lack of connection to her body was just outrageous to me. Just this belief that when she has her period pain she has to be still. She wouldn't touch her body. Just that fear of movement will make it worse. Touching my belly will make it worse. So, starting with, what are their beliefs?
Speaker 3:we can't do anything until we understand that that's their belief. Because if I send her home with, let's do some movement, let's get your pelvis moving, let's do some touch on your belly, she's not going to do that. She's like that physio's whack. She's going to make my pain worse? What?
Speaker 1:is she thinking? None of this stuff helps. I avoid it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. Even simple things in that case, like physically having her, physically touch her body, connect with your body, put your hands there. What do you feel, what's underneath your hands? Bring awareness to their breath. Can you feel when you're breathing? Yeah and some people are like what do you mean? What do I feel when I'm breathing?
Speaker 1:that was going to be one of my questions, like how does someone present or how can someone consider that for themselves?
Speaker 3:that's a pretty practical example yeah, well, my most common thing that I would give someone to do as homework, I suppose to use the term homework, which I don't like, but it's just is that a memory connotation?
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe Can you just spend one minute, two minutes, sometime today sitting in. We call it a sacred space at Vera. Create a sacred space at home where you feel safe and just be with your body in stillness. What are you feeling? What are you thinking? What emotions are present? Because too many of us are just busy and doing and numbing and scrolling on our phone coffee in the morning, wine at night Just never in stillness and you can't connect with your body. Until you can do that and there's reasons people do that Sometimes, if you are in legitimate, really terrible pain or you've been through traumas, you don't want to be with your body because that's a scary place to be. But to move towards wellness we need to move to those places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and let the system connect. You know, it's all one. Yeah. And life takes us away from that as you just mentioned all those things. Yeah. Let's talk male patients and I guess, approaching the same situations that present themselves, that you've seen, is the approach different. Like sorry, the outcome, the approach is probably the same, but I guess, narrative-wise, conversation-wise, do you notice a difference or is it very much the same?
Speaker 3:It's interesting to discuss again beliefs, so particularly around work life how many hours someone needs to work, how much money maybe a man needs to bring in and that's driving the belief that he needs to be working, which is incredibly stressful so he can't get to gym or exercise or whatever it is. All of those things contribute to wellness. So I think it's interesting to. I think it's the same approach and outcome, but it's interesting to look at the beliefs and there are similarities and beliefs for men and women. Generally speaking, that's a very generalized statement, but having worked with mostly women for a really long time, I hear the same stories from women and then the same stories from women about their male partners. That's really fascinating actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, interesting, and it's funny, you know, as a male thinking like that. I've just turned 30, I'm looking and going. I need to be better set up, like I hear myself have this narrative in and going. I need to be better set up, like I hear myself have this narrative in my head. I need to be better set up.
Speaker 1:I need to work harder. I've failed it so much. I need to organise this and I don't get stressed or anxious about it. It doesn't affect my pain, but every now and again it's sort of I worry deeply about it.
Speaker 2:It's biological, and it is it's biological and it is it's biological.
Speaker 1:yeah, there's a protective mechanism within it, I think is like I've got to provide yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's it I've got to provide. Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's funny, though, because, like I am narrowing the window of opportunity I give myself to exercise Through my 20s, I never did that. Yeah. I've got Excel spreadsheets of my strength training, every rep, every set, every weight recorded for that and an RPE for that, like I've done it for 10 years, and for the last six months I've gone away from that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it because I turned 30? Is it because work's ramped up and the business has gotten bigger and we're dealing with big problems, and is it a narrative that I'm just hiding behind the oh, it's bigger and more problematic. You know, it's a really interesting thing to think about getting my own little therapy session.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:But you know, and then you go and do the run or just don't go on my phone for a day over the Australia Day long weekend it was like maybe clocked less than an hour of screen time, yeah, and I came back to work on Tuesday on fire. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Felt amazing and I was like 10 times more productive to provide and fit the narrative I'm worried about anyway. So it was really funny on a personal level and it's probably a message out there to the men that maybe do worry about this stuff and think about it At the end of the day, if you let yourself go down that rabbit hole as you're talking about. One, the women and the partners in your life are probably identifying this. It might be affecting your relationship with them and two, it's probably not actually supporting your productivity, which is the main thing you want to be good at. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's why I just I think it's such a missing thing with wellness to look at people's beliefs.
Speaker 1:For that reason.
Speaker 3:Because we know again, we know from the science how are we more productive? We're more productive when we manage our stress, when we're off our phones, when we get out in nature, when we do a little bit of exercise. So you just put that little bit in, you're more productive, you bring in more resources, you're supporting your family.
Speaker 1:And your health. On a side note, which is a subject to going to affect your productivity, because you're no good when you're in pain or sick and not productive, it's managed.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, I always say run the experiment, Just run the experiment, see what happens. That's funny.
Speaker 1:Good and you can use a science lens. Yeah, particularly in women's health. In your experience, what misconceptions and I think a lot have been addressed in the last 10 years evidence and research, as you're saying, is coming, but still what misconceptions exist out there that you still see far too often at the coalface as a practitioner, particularly in relation to women's health?
Speaker 3:That our physiology is the abnormal one and that basically we're treated the same way as men, even though we're small versions of men, to quote Stacey Sims Stacey Sims. We need to really take into consideration our female physiology in terms of our fluctuating hormones, which is so different to men and, as you know, when we look at the research, most of it historically has been on men and then just extrapolated to women in terms of health, and it's gaslighting really and it's doing such a big disservice.
Speaker 3:So it is great to see we're starting to get some research for women, but it would be nice to see society set up so that women can work around their cycles and their hormones Because, just like the whole productivity piece, we have phases in our cycle where we're more productive and where maybe we are more sensitive to pain and stress. So that's the time where we should be backing off a little bit and taking it a little bit easier. So I think that is the biggest thing that we need to look at.
Speaker 1:From a therapeutic sense in a rehabilitative state and also from an exercise prescription sense. Is that something you're sort of bringing in more and more, or is there going to be a cyclical nature to this rehab process or just this general training process that you're going through?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think we've got enough research to be prescriptive around it Okay. But it's more around being aware of your own cycle and your own cycles in general you know, your nature, how you respond to things, how much I probably take it from a bit of a spiritual lens again and almost think of your physical body as just this avatar that you need to take care of. What does it need?
Speaker 3:How much sleep does it need? When is it running its best? What are you feeding it? Who are you with? How is it impacted by the different phases of your cycles? Because that then can dictate a lot of the decisions around health, exercise, nutrition, wellness.
Speaker 1:Training, training, yeah, yeah, all of that. For sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that takes that connection to self and embodiment and actually stopping and noticing, witnessing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess the sort of influence of wearables gives us a bit of that understanding. You know we had a researcher last week on the episode who specialised in physical activity, particularly in the influence of sort of tech and wearables on adherence and behaviours. But I think and again, anecdotally, just people understanding that maybe my HIV is a bit lower or my resting heart rates are on my body temps higher at certain phases, particularly female clients, and I'm just not feeling as good. So turn it down a touch. It doesn't mean zero and it also doesn't mean you're a failure.
Speaker 1:That you've turned up last week and your force plate week and your force plate jump and your, you know 5k time is just five, 6% down. You tried your hardest and you just feel flat. So what yeah? What are you training for? You know, it's just particularly hopefully. 99% of people listening to this are not training to try and win a medal. They're training to feel really good and you don't't need to be at 100% every single time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the thing I find fascinating how many people have wearables and I do and they will know their data, but they don't make changes around it.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, it's fascinating, isn't it?
Speaker 3:I didn't sleep well last night. All right, let's go train. Yeah, Like wow, okay, anecdotally, didn't sleep well last night. All right, let's go train. Yeah, like wow, okay, anecdotally. Do you reckon you could throw a percentage on that? Like, from what you've seen working with people, this is high it's not evidence-based.
Speaker 1:It's high, it's high. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I'm thinking about myself and I sometimes go. I'm not looking at my sleep score last night until it's night time because I got a lot of shit to do today and I know it was a bad sleep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and again it's where you know burnout is so prevalent, because when we're constantly pushing beyond our neurobiological limits, day after day, without providing that recovery, we're going to end up sick, and we see that so much particularly midlife men and women. They get to that point. You can push a lot when you're younger, like you are, Kieran, but it gets to the point where we just can't recover like we used to. And that's where it is so important to have a look at wearables and actually make life adjustments or, if you can't at the time, factor in time when you can recover.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah. How's the little fella doing? Hey?
Speaker 3:What are you angry at, hot?
Speaker 1:And it's. I mean, it's so relevant and we see it so much. As I said just anecdotally myself sometimes, just keep pushing, keep pushing. But it is, you know, when you're on that run and you're just not hitting the threshold you want to, or maybe you prescribe for yourself, it's okay, yeah, It'll be okay, Sit in that a little bit lower and it's more the, I guess, the accumulation of adherence and it doesn't need to be hitting at what you prescribed. You've got to listen, yeah, and that's both sides for and women.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about young women confidence, resilience. I think now more than ever, the pressure on young women to be extraordinary is really high and with that the performance of young women being extraordinary is really high. I don't know really the stats and the data, but young women are outperforming young men a long way and with some of the young females we've worked with, particularly high school age, the pressure they put on themselves from a physical activity, sport, body image, social adherence and academic and professional pursuits is out of this world and they're doing it. But underneath that, as you're saying, you're talking about beliefs. I guess when you're working with young women that are in pain, that are putting this pressure on themselves, what are kind of the key components you're looking to address?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's interesting. I would say a lot of the young girls I get with pain are the high achievers. Totally they're the high achievers and again it's it's talking to them about where is that coming from? Like what, what do you actually want for your life? What are the external? Where are the external? Where are the external pressures coming from? You know, is it school parents? Yeah, is there some kind of recognition you're trying to get from someone? Maybe you're not getting enough attention at home? Where is it actually coming from? But then if we look at more, the girls that are actually just, they are really just those exceptional girls that are really good at sport, they're really good at study, they're really good at music, they're just good across the board. It's educating them on having the awareness of their cycles. For example, are they eating well? So there's no, you know red S kicking in or things like that. So I think, again, there's no black and white answer there, it's black.
Speaker 1:Well, it's back to the beliefs, and then that self-awareness is probably the big one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Period positivity is a big part of your work.
Speaker 1:Why is it important to change the narrative around it. You know you've mentioned the fluctuations hormonally, when we're feeling our best, when we're not feeling great, particularly for young women going through this sort of phase of life high school, early stages of university and early stages of their career, what's sort of, I guess, the key factors of understanding it, and then the role models in their life parents, teachers, mentors at work how can they help?
Speaker 3:I think, to answer that last question, in my era and people that are older than me, there was so much period shame actually. So you know I went to an all girls private school and we would hide menstrual products, you know, to go to the bathroom, which is just insane when you think back to it. So it's nice to see that changing. I know for my daughter who's in grade nine sorry, no, she's not, she's in grade eight. I always get that wrong, edit that Sorry, no, she's not, she's in grade eight I always get that wrong. Edit that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll do that. I know that they openly talk about it. So it's amazing that that has changed and it's needed to change. But it's for them having an understanding of. Also we were never taught at our age and women my age come to physio with no idea of this but what their hormones actually do beyond their reproductive functions, so even having an awareness of what estrogen and progesterone do for every other organ in their body. So we want girls to grow up having an understanding of actually how amazing they are.
Speaker 3:So I run programs where I teach girls about the superpowers of their hormones and how incredible they actually are and how you know, some athletes sort of won marathons on day one of their period and things like that so there's. It doesn't have to hold you back, but you can make your hormones work for you yeah and it's also just education around.
Speaker 3:you know, there's still, unfortunately, a lot of girls being prescribed the contraceptive pill at a very young age, so they're actually never experiencing what it's like to cycle and they're also then not having the benefit of what those hormones are doing for them in terms of, you know, growing peak bone density, growing muscle mass, yeah, the impacts on their brain, emotional health. So we have some patients who are coming off the pill at 30, 40, going oh wow, this is what it feels like, and to me that's just devastating that they don't even know what their natural physiology is capable of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's fascinating and I think, as you you said, making your hormones work for you is just such a lovely way to put it and so rare uh you know, very rarely do we, do I, the woman in my life go. I'm in this phase and smiling about it. All you know, next week that's just coming up and sort of actually celebrate and actually incorporate into how they're living their life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're very routine, regimented and structured, but it doesn't mean, I guess our adherence, excitement, whatever else it might be, can flow with that and, as you said, I think, taking that step back, observing it, making a note and then leveraging off that because it's going to be subjective, it's not going to be like on week three. Every female feels like this, it's like you might be different, and that's okay as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, really important message for the men listening to this, and I and I really, you know, want to put an emphasis on this and I've said it a number of times I think for males, the most visceral behavior a man can give is when the woman in their life and this is generalizing, speaking for myself, really um is affected, in danger, whatever it might be like if someone does something to the woman in my life, frontal lobe will switch off and I'll act like an animal to protect them.
Speaker 1:Um, and you know, as I said, there's all those narratives and that sort of thing, but yeah, I think there's. There's so much if we look at it through a lens of like think about the woman in your life. As a man listening to this, what can we do?
Speaker 3:I think again is just have awareness of the fluctuating state of our hormones and then specifically the women in your life, particularly an intimate partner, obviously, so that you can support her through those phases. Like what are the phases where she maybe needs some quieter time or maybe even time away in her own little cave where you won't get yelled at? Yeah, just offering support. It's going to be opening communication with her, like what do you need at the moment? Just lines like that. How can I support you at the moment?
Speaker 3:Simple question like that, yeah, instead of trying to read their mind but that's up to women as well to be able to ask for what they need. Yes, and that's another skill.
Speaker 1:And also, I think, verbalise how they're feeling. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so providing safety, you know providing safety around that, that it's safe to verbalize how they're feeling, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Would you say and this sounds murky and gray and I think some people want to be strictly professional. But I think in a workplace setting, in a coaching setting be it school performance athletes, high performance athletes, high performance athletes there's males in leadership roles where they have to manage females, and there's a line there in terms of workers work and get the outcome, and sometimes it's probably a compromise and risks a successful career for a talented individual in any capacity sport, professionally. I guess what considerations can be brought to them, if anything?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is tough, but I think it's just again. Why is it a stigma? It's just our body, right, yeah, so it's such a fascinating question. When you actually come back to what it is, it's just how our physiologies are working. Why can't we talk about it like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's funny in setting up our women's health program, which kicks off early Feb it's, I've been sitting in a room with four or five females that have helped coordinate this whole thing. One, it's been hilarious. Two, the productivity levels. I'm like blown away. I've honestly and again anecdotal but females just getting stuff done, making it look pretty, making it really attractive, and not only for females but for males, without other stuff done involved. But then at the same time, because it's a women's health program and in the program it's all this sort of conversation.
Speaker 1:You know some of the women are like guys I'm going to jump on a Zoom call today. I'm not coming in for that meeting, I'm day two of my period and it's just sweet. You know it's fun and it just makes from a professional setting, makes it so easy. Call gets done, work gets done better than I can even imagine and everyone's happy and we laugh about it and just say, okay, like you get that space and you know it's almost acceptable and at the end of the day, the productivity, the work, it's been extraordinary from my side and the team's done such a wonderful job. But not as hard and not as professionally compromising, I think, is the big thing I like to use. It's just a space of hey, like I'm still going to do the work, but I just need this space because I'm not feeling at this level.
Speaker 1:So it's been interesting for me to see that and learn that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and sometimes that's all. Women need just to know that they can say that there's nothing else you need to do, yeah. Exactly or even then ask so what does that mean for you? I'm day two. What does that mean for you as in? What can I do to help you today, then? Or what changes do you need to make? What works better? How do we accommodate that? Yeah, and in a professional setting.
Speaker 1:I think there's silver linings in everything, and one of the big ones from COVID is we can be productive without having to go into an office and present a certain way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I think you know, if we sort of consider this conversation for a second, we've gone and touched everywhere, from spirituality to psychology, to neurology, to hormones, to musculoskeletal and everything else For the person who's listening to this and suddenly come across a Stacey Sims podcast or something like that, and they're just like, oh my God, there's so much. Where do they start? How can they simply just start turning the wheel in a positive motion so that they're feeling really, you know, I guess, excited about, you know, embodying a bit more of a healthy lifestyle, whatever other, I suppose, mechanisms of motivation they have? Where does someone start?
Speaker 3:I think it's a matter of scaling right out and just sitting and asking yourself how actually am I, instead of, like you said, going about your routine? This is what I do on a Monday. This is what I do on a Tuesday Just actually sitting and going. How am I?
Speaker 1:Do I need to be a runner?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely yeah. What symptoms do I have? Where do I not feel well in my life?
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 3:You know things like that, yeah, and what changes can I make that can move me towards wellness? Or if you're not feeling in a well state, when was the last time I was feeling well? Because things like relationships, workplaces can impact your wellness.
Speaker 1:Big time.
Speaker 3:So I think it's important to regularly sit and check in on things like that, and it might mean making big decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that's sort of the next step. It's being brave enough to confront.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I guess, in terms of finding a support network to be able to make a big decision, there might be a lot of people, particularly females, listening to this, where they're staring at a big decision but feel like if they make it, they've got nothing behind them to support them. I guess, what can they do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I always think it's important to set up your own safety net. So we're talking about this in our pelvic pain program. Actually, we're running a beautiful nine-week pelvic pain program and it's a beautiful healing journey and the first, not the first step, but on the first day, one of the questions is who can you put in your support network throughout this journey that you're about to embark on? So that might be friends, family, it might be a GP, might be health professionals, might be a coach the people that are genuinely there to support your wellness and, on the flip side of that, who isn't supportive of that?
Speaker 3:for whatever reason or who is keeping me attached to a particular identity I'm trying to shift away from. Who will it sort of trigger a bit if I actually make these changes towards wellness? Because we're not complaining about the same things anymore, we're making big changes. So I think all of that is really important. Yeah, anymore, we're making big changes, so I think all of that is really important. And I think it's important to have a combination of paid people to support you if you can, and unpaid people. I think that's really important to have both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, let's stick on the unpaid people. How can someone potentially identify this person's coming to me to play this role? Big decision I'm not coming. But you know, like I think a lot of us misinterpret, maybe underestimate that we do play that role for someone and then someone just goes, oh, and they avoid making a big life decision that could really impact their health, their pain, whatever situation they're in, because they feel like there's no one else in the person that I thought was supporting was me, and they're not there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess. Are there any things that people can identify, and you've obviously professionally played that role for a lot of people how does it exist and what does it look like?
Speaker 3:I think it's people again, this is the conversation we started with. It's people who will sit and just listen to you. So we all know people that you'll be in a conversation and they talk and talk, and talk and talk. It's got to be people who will do the opposite They'll actually sit and listen, but also not be afraid to ask you hard questions, which might be the questions that make you think about the big, tough things in your life. Do you need boundaries from your parents? Is that relationship actually serving you now? Is that job something you need to look at? Those big decisions that massively impact wellness, pain, all of those things. And a good friend is someone that can ask those questions in a compassionate way. Yeah, that's important too, big time. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think, as a health professional supporting people, yeah, and I think, as a health professional supporting people, it's really important to not be attached to any outcome.
Speaker 1:Hmm, that's easy to say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as a professional that tends to get attached to outcomes. Yeah, yeah, it's a skill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's really important because I think a lot of people that listen to this are practitioners in some sense yeah. Yeah, makes a lot of sense and, as you said, sitting there and listening as a practitioner is sometimes all we have to do. Yeah, and the evidence on that is emerging stronger and stronger and stronger.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and, as you said, it's allowing the person in front of you to lead their own wellness journey. You know we can be there to listen and support them with all of the information we have, but it's allowing them to have agency.
Speaker 1:And giving them the tools.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it's theirs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter how much we give and try and diagnose and what they take and everything else, it's theirs. Yeah for sure. Yeah, well, they're amazing. I don't think I've had a conversation, at least on this podcast, that has encompassed everything so much.
Speaker 1:I mean you've got a really amazing story personally, professionally, and you've brought it all together and that's a brave thing to do. I think it's a really special thing to do so. I have no doubt. The effect and the influence you're having on your patients and the wider spectrum of people is, um, is pretty special. So you know, I guess, on their behalf, thank you for doing that, um, and thank you for jumping on today, um and again, being so vulnerable and sharing your story. It's inspiring and it's motivating. I live for work and I don't look at work as work. I just think this is a sort of responsibility I have. It's something that I've chosen to do and I love doing it. I don't want to do anything else. Yeah, you know, it sort of oozes out of you too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, really special. Thank you very much for your time today. Thank you for having cheers. We'll get you on again soon, cheers, thank you.