The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
S2 E26 Science Of Fitness 10 Years, 10 Lessons w/ Joe & Kieran
Join the owners of SOF, Kieran Maguire & Joey Agresta in this episode as they dive into 10 lessons learned in 10 years in the fitness industry.
Unlock the secrets to building a thriving fitness business with us as we celebrate a decade of growth in the industry. Alongside my co-host Joey Agresta, we share our journey of forging genuine connections within the community and how these relationships have become the backbone of our success. Discover how participating in classes and embracing authenticity has helped us and can help you build a lasting bond with clients, moving beyond just busy sessions to creating a strong and supportive fitness community.
Crafting effective fitness programs isn’t just about the workout itself; it’s about aligning expectations with outcomes and ensuring participant satisfaction. Tune in as we dissect the essential components of a successful session, from warm-ups to cooldowns, and the importance of defining clear goals. We also tackle the balance between creating a solid product and the art of marketing, underscoring the need for both structure and creativity to keep clients coming back for more.
Through personal anecdotes, we delve into the challenges of expanding a fitness business and the resilience required to overcome adversity. From opening multiple gym facilities to handling unexpected setbacks, our stories highlight the importance of choosing the right partners and pushing through pressure to achieve success. Join us for valuable insights on business growth, effective marketing, and the cultural influences that have shaped our journey, all while learning how to turn obstacles into opportunities.
Welcome to the Science of Fitness podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life, as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, fitness, performance, business and wellness. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast, and today I'm sitting here with my business partner, co-director, co-owner, co-sufferer, joey Agresta. How are you, joey? How are youey, how are you, brother, feeling? Good night um 14th of jan, seven days away, 14th jan, 14th of feb, seven days away, we celebrate 10 years of science of fitness pretty big deal, man, it's crazy the photos that just pop up on facebook and and the memories.
Speaker 1:So much to talk about, um, but I get really excited about seeing all photos yeah, yeah, it's um, it's pretty interesting and I mean we can waffle about the feeling, when did 10 years happen? And all that sort of stuff, but for the sake of today's episode, we've taken the time, we've pulled out 10 lessons that we've probably, together, learned over 10 years, and we're going to pretty much base this episode on that, and so we're going to probably spend about five minutes discussing each lesson, no more than that. I'm going to set the clock and go and then, and then, yeah, we'll see how this one goes. All right, so let's just get straight into it. Clock starts. Lesson number one community and people are the backbone of a service-based business. True, yeah, yeah, from your side. You know what? What builds a community Time?
Speaker 2:authenticity, genuinely caring, which is, you know, part and parcel with that. And I think, more than anything, the founder has to be integrated, as opposed to an owner who might just buy the thing. So, for example, if we talk about early days bootcamp, I was doing the sessions, you were doing the sessions, rory was doing the sessions and not just taking the class. We would jump in and do the thing, and that creates a tighter bond, especially in fitness, because people can relate to you, you can go through suffering together. There's that shared experience, which is crucial. We weren't just there, you know, showing up and saying, all right, guys, see you later. Yeah, the shared experience is what, in my opinion, builds community, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's a really funny one because I sort of catch myself every now and again and I wish I joined in on more classes and more sessions and there's something so special about it. Um, and any gym, any fitness brand, whether the owner joins in or the trainer joins in or not, everyone that is suffering together, for lack of a better term, get closer. You know you look at sports teams when you do that really hard pre-season session, pre-season camp, pre -season whatever. You're much closer with each other when you do that than you know. If you do it on your own, it's, it is in its own unique way really does build that. Where do where do fitness businesses or service-based businesses in general go wrong in an attempt to build a community?
Speaker 2:Rushing it. But I want to put a little asterisk next to rushing it, and I mean that by if you invite a hundred people and you just look through your contact list of people you've met once or twice and invite them down, you can have a really busy session. But how many people stay for coffee after? How many people go get breakfast? How many people come back the next week? And I think that's the true marker of community versus having a busy session. So for me, I always think of fitness, especially group fitness gyms, as let's go get coffee after and that's where it happens, that's where the magic is. So I think a lot of people go wrong by trying to fill the session, which don't get me wrong. You know it's a start. It's a start and it pays the bills, whether it's free, not, but the retention is what drives the community. Sorry, the community is what creates the retention. And in order to create the community, you need to give people a reason to come back, and most of the time that's through friendship.
Speaker 1:Friendship, quality of service, caring, yeah yeah, all those important little things. You know, I think the biggest thing for us and having watched it happen in Burley is exactly that we purchased a pre-existing business with a client list and we've gone in and realized there was none of that. There was a class and Sweaty and members, but there wasn't. Where are we going for coffee? We're going to the same coffee shop, we go to the same beach, like we're actually connecting outside of that. The exercise, the fitness, the program brings us together, but then you know it's all that other stuff, as you're saying. So what have you seen in that Burley experience that has really worked and how has that come to fruition?
Speaker 2:It's been really interesting doing it. A second time over, you start to notice a few people who have similar personalities to the first time there's. You can probably think of a few connectors who we had in Milton who are really good at tying people together. They were always there. They always could link up people who weren't friends and they are the essentially the backbone of that community. I'm starting to see a few more of them pop into the gym and it's kind of like their value is more than just the money they pay each week because they link everyone together and if I think back to early milton days at 5 am, we just happen to have 25 of them in the 5 am class, so naturally we grew really fast, yeah, and and so it happened.
Speaker 1:And so it happened. So that's what I'm starting to see more of. Yeah, cool, it's very interesting, right? Yeah? Lesson number two um, being a boss, being a manager, being in charge, being a director uh, and saying the hard things, giving the bad news, is much more valuable than being a boss that has a good vibe and a fun place.
Speaker 2:Agreed. I would say this is not my strong point to work in progress. I definitely think the boss needs to be clearer and be more deliberate with what they say and set the expectation and not just be a vibe.
Speaker 1:They have to be a vibe, I think, but also set the expectation, which is a tricky balance Big time and it's really hard because you don't want to be that boss that just shits on everybody all the time and hit the target, hit the target, hit the target. Whatever you know, numerically, from a business sense, you want to have a good work culture and work environment. However, you have to run a good work culture and work environment. However, you have to run a business and there is an obligation as a director, almost legally, to do so. Um, we don't have the pressure of shareholders and all that sort of stuff that you know in the terms of the size that we are, but there is an obligation numerically that you got to hit because you want to keep the lights on, you want to keep the place open and and so, turning around, and I think in our lessons and over the years, the mistakes we've made and then, I think, the improvements we've made is we've we've been too nice and not objectively said these are the targets, these expectations, hit them and then held our team accountable to that, brought them up with us to get there.
Speaker 1:Um, and then other times we have and I guess that's a big lesson, but currently, you know, in our state and 10 years later, for me it's a really big one to go. Here's what we need and here's why and it's objective. It's quite clear and I think it's quite transparent as well, and people respect that and you set that standard and then turning around and holding people accountable to that, staff members accountable to that, is really important and really valuable. In fact, they respect you more and that's feedback we've had from our staff. They respect you more when the outcomes, the transparency and the expectations are super clear and then they're held accountable to it super important and I think, to support what you're saying, people want to feel like they're winning.
Speaker 2:So what's the scoreboard? What are you working to? And we can work to having a really good product, but how do you define product? You know, you and I both believe in our product a lot and I think we've got the best product, full stop. However, how do you define that? Is it money? Is it members? Is it quality of service? Hard to say. So, yeah, I'm a big believer in scoreboards.
Speaker 1:And yeah, and that's something that we've probably brought on in the last two to three years is an actual objective numerical. Here's the score. Because if it's just feel I think we ran the business of feel in, you know, the first three to five years it just felt good and it was busy, sweet, not actually objectively knowing where everything is, and there's plenty of business owners out there, I'm sure who was busy and yeah, I mean we pay the bills and that's a bit of like. Where is it at? Is it winning? Is it going down? Is it going up? What's your cash flow?
Speaker 1:All those little things you end up having to learn, particularly if you're trying to scale the thing and get a little bit bigger. You've got to have a scoreboard, um, cause then it just, it sets those expectations and it holds that accountability, um, but it can be lost. You know, I think a lot of places get too hung up on those numbers. Um, I think you know if I'm going to criticize the franchise model and there's a lot of benefits to it and it does work from a business sense, but there is a numerical thing that they have to hit every single time and it can affect the vibe. So it's such a fine line, it's very easy to talk about, it's very hard to actually implement and hold people accountable to and it still depends on what the goal of the business is.
Speaker 2:You know we're in a state where we've acquired a new gym. We started up a new gym in platinum, you know, less than two years ago, so we're still in the growth stage. If we were, you know, 10 to 15 years in one singular site and it was just you and I running the thing, we might have a different mindset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big time, big time. But yeah, you know that. Scalability you need to depend on other people. You need to build a culture and environment if you want to grow something. That's of significance. So you know that's of significance. So you know that's where we're at.
Speaker 2:Okay, rule number three build a product or service that relies on a system, not an individual yep, I can remember clear as day I don't know the exact date, but I remember saying this that I said to you we need to be melbourne storm, we need to be a system that relies on well, the system, frankly, where anyone can move in and out at any one time. Billy Slater goes down, they put the next one in, cooper Cronk goes down, they put the next one in, and it doesn't matter. Everyone shows up and does the job. That's so important to me because, in fitness particularly, there's a lot of key man risk, which is basically, someone is really good at their job, whether that's from a relationship perspective or technically good at their job. They leave, which happens, you know, two years, three years, five years, and then a bunch of clients leave with them Again, totally normal, happens all the time.
Speaker 2:I think I read a book on this or something, but I started to recognize that we were at risk of this when we had Frankie, rory, you, me, ash, your brother I'm missing someone, but someone else is in there in sort of like South Brisbane phase, and I thought, okay, everyone is really good at their job. If someone leaves, we're at risk of 30, 50, 70 members going with them. We need to make sure our strength program, our conditioning program, is a soft product and not just the Rory Tim show, the Kieran Maguire show Super important.
Speaker 1:And super hard to do.
Speaker 1:Like it's easy to say that Because, at the end of the day, when you are replacing that person, you do have to fulfill a void, and so who you're replacing it with with, you might have the program done and you might have the expectations somewhat clear, but if they don't land on where they need to be, so you know what little things have we put together. I can think of our internship being one. It's not a little thing, it's a pretty big thing, but that's one where they see, they learn, and then, should we need to, next person steps in, as you know, one steps out and it's it's helped, sort of to a degree um system proof it. It's not a hundred percent because interns are still graduates, they're still a little bit new, but you know what are the? I guess you know a couple of most like key um pieces that you need to implement to have a system a la the melbourne storm, the crusaders. You know those, those world-class sport teams that objectively you can see they get the results in accordance with the system, not a key man.
Speaker 2:I always come back to whatever's in your head needs to be on paper. So if it's something as simple as a program program's on paper, how does a program go on paper? Well, it's got a delivery framework to it. What is the pre-warmup, what is the warmup, what is the main, what is the post, what is the warm down? From a technical perspective, and then from the coaching perspective, where am I? Who am I? Where am I standing? What music am I playing? You know all those sorts of things. And then there's the sort of outcome of the session which I've grown more into the last two or three years where we're trying to clearly define what is the intended outcome of the session. Are we trying to get stronger? Are we trying to get fitter? Is this a hard session where you're just going to hurt? And then that creating that mindset or realization for the session is super important, because people leave feeling fulfilled relative to the desired outcome. If they show up knowing they're going to die and they die, it matches the experience yeah, yeah, it's and it's.
Speaker 1:It's actually it's not hard. Sorry, it's not complicated, but it's hard. It's hard to get all those little intricate details and I'm the worst for it. I walk into a core class and I'm feeling it and it's going. All those you know. If you put those key things that you've done so well in your brain, it's like what do I want to achieve? Well, the focus of this session is to improve thoracic mobility. Like I want everybody in this class to learn what it is, feel it and then so they walk out feeling more accomplished.
Speaker 1:It is that simple, but putting it down on paper, writing a set of instructions and rules, you know like it works, and it is a recipe. And there is a recipe that someone can read, apply, get feedback, go again and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. They'll bring their own nuance and value to it, which is incredibly, I think, beautiful in terms of the career that we're in. There is incredibly, I think, beautiful in terms of the career that we're in. There's that personal flair, which is important, but at the end of the day, there's a system that still needs to be hit. Yeah, yeah, exactly, cool, okay, next one rule number four make sure your product is great before you worry about marketing, and this one for me is a big one, for the fitness industry particularly we spoke about it a few seconds ago how?
Speaker 2:How do you define product? You know what is the intended outcome of the product. What are you trying to achieve and how do you deem it good? You know what is a good product. I think for us, early days, we started in the boot camp, we were outside and it was a let's run a session that is programmed, so we're not just making up on the spot. Let's make it organized in terms of time, so there's time blocks, and let's try and have a really good feel to it, which is, you know, the vibe, the vibe music, and that was probably the framework to start with, and it's developed in strength and core and you know you'll touch on that in a second. Um, how do you define what is a good product? What is the intended outcome? How do we make it consistent? And my question to you now is you know you've obviously been the the key driver in creating all these products over the last, you know, seven, eight, nine years what is a good product?
Speaker 1:It's for me there's you've got to. You're like, from my, I guess my expectation of myself is you've got to know, you've got to know your shit. You actually have to know what you're doing and know it down to a very finite level. If I'm talking about a handstand class, like reverse engineering it, it's not so that everyone can do a handstand. There's actually principles underneath that of the. It's about the requirements to be capable to do a handstand, achieving those from wrist strength to thoracic mobility and everything in between. So, you know, being able to define that and then communicate that and set that expectation for the client. Second to that is in the result, like, did the client get fitter, stronger, more mobility, reduce pain, get the result that met the expectation that you set or that they wanted? Yes, cool. Well then it's pretty clear that it's a good product. And then do they come back asking for more yes, cool, clear that it's a good product. Great, worry about that.
Speaker 1:You know we were in an industry that is eight week challenge, eight week challenge, eight week challenge. And it seems like a lot of people in the industry are constantly reselling, reselling, reselling, reselling. And that's probably because churn's high, probably because their product hasn't met the expectation of the client. And we've been through that. We've had moments where our product wasn't meeting a group of clients' expectations. We've had people leave and people move on and it you have to turn around, point the finger at yourself and go why. It's like a product wasn't meeting the expectation. What was? What were we missing? Oh, it's probably one or two things Probably. It might be a vibe thing, it might be a an actual prescription thing. It's not hard enough. It might be we haven't communicated well enough with these group of clients to say here's the expectation we have of you when you train with us. You know, and I'm going to ask you to get away from the stuff you're good at in strength class and you're going to do a little bit more conditioning and a little bit more mobility and we're going to change how you perceive health fitness training. And that's a really important one and I think that's one that we've slipped away from and jump back into.
Speaker 1:Back to the client when are you at? What do you expect, what do you need? And it's making sure we can get on the same page with that as regularly as possible and then make sure the product matches and delivers that. And far too often in the industry, it's like you need to train hard, you need to be shredded, you need to lose weight. That's a good product and we're going to sell it a thousand times over and just go on your phone. You'll see that's being sold to you right now, no matter who's listening to this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's. It's pretty funny, you know, the marketing in our industry is excellent, the service and the product, and this is harsh to say it's not where it needs to be, and I think we wouldn't have a epidemic of you know all cause mortality related to lack of physical activity related, related to obesity, related to just general health If we had an industry that was better at fulfilling its product and meeting its expectations. Yep agreed fully, which then brings us to point number five. Once your product is great, market the shit out of it, and this is something that I think the lesson we've learnt more recently. We haven't done enough of.
Speaker 2:I think we both felt a point, maybe two or three years ago, where we were just starting to feel really confident in the product and not just good confident, like we run a good show, our product is really good. We've had ebbs and flows, of course, but I think there was a realization where we need more people to know how good we are. Very simply, if I can speak to the last, what are we now? Seventh or eighth? What's today Seventh? Okay, so the last 40 days where we've gone super aggressive in our marketing.
Speaker 1:By our standard, not by marketing industry, but by our standard.
Speaker 2:Sorry, yeah, by you know two-owner gym standard. Whatever. We've had 31 people inquire for the gym this week. Over the last 40 days there's been upwards of 140-odd inquiries organically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and define that, uh, referral. Yeah, do a consultation. I want to come check the gym out. Here's my email, here's my mobile.
Speaker 2:I want to do a free trial basically, yeah, whether it's from referral, instagram, website, phone call, walk by, whatever. Uh, maybe one person came through, paid, which we, we ran for a few days. So you know surplus of a hundred people, organically, and I I sort of touched on this in the newsletter. You know, sure it's January and sure you know February and people come back from holidays, but that's just off the back of kicking off a marketing campaign. How else are you supposed to keep the lights on? Or how else are you supposed to generate new business, or how else are you supposed to?
Speaker 1:grow.
Speaker 2:And the reason we want to grow is to help more people with their desired outcome.
Speaker 1:So if you don't market, you don't get to help anyone, and someone else is probably making that noise, so that will go to the person that they see making the noise, cause that, in their head, is what exists. For me, the funniest one is young Emily Adams, and shout at him. Hopefully she listens to this, um, and she does a better job at communicating and marketing what she does as a professional than we ever have. She's got, you know, she's just graduated, she's got probably a year and a bit's worth of experience in the industry, but is communicating it so authentically and for lack of a better term marketing it. She probably doesn't even know she's doing what she does and she does it so well. Maybe there's a generational skill set there that we don't quite have with social media and whatnot, but it's just, it's incredible how valuable it is and at the end of the day, it feels salesy, it feels marketing. We still probably feel a little bit funny about it, but we sit here and say, yeah, we believe in our product. Well, if you believe about it, you know you've got to sell it, and I think there's a lot of.
Speaker 1:This is a generalization, um, the highest quality practitioners in our industry probably market them the self themselves, the worst, um. So maybe there's actually some stuff to prove me wrong. But you know, as just as an opinion piece, our example, us as an example. We've so obsessed about the product and the quality of the product that we forget to go and actually say, hey, like we've got this really good product, you should come try it, you should come and train with us. I feel I still don't say that to people. I don't hard sell people ever. I don't even tell them what we do, how's work, yeah, it's good. Then you know I'll brush it away. So you can't grow, you can't sustain a business. You gotta put your business hat on if you don't get in front of people and say here's a really great product that can solve your problem.
Speaker 2:Let us know when you're ready. Yep Language plays a big part in that too.
Speaker 1:Big time, yeah, so you know, and challenging yourself and you know if you're out there running a service-based small business or you're trying to grow anything, you've got to challenge yourself to do it. Sitting and writing a weekly EDM is really freaking hard sometimes. Sometimes it's like that, but if you do it regularly, I've written blogs. I wrote blogs for two years straight and then wrote an email, probably for two years, and then went away from it for six months and we saw a downturn in the general awareness, general inquiries, and it's like it is that simple assign 60 minutes, no distractions. Write what you are doing, what you're selling, whatever belief that you have that is associated with your product or your service. Write it and challenge yourself, because that makes you better at communicating, it gives you better language and, ultimately, it gives people an awareness of what you're selling and how you can help them.
Speaker 2:One last thought on that. This is specific to fitness, which is all I know. To be clear, oftentimes the trainer is the product and it's a combination of how you look, whether you like it or not, how fit you are, whether you like it or not, and all the other things associated with that. So when I put up a post that says I train this many times a week, I feel like a bit of a goober, but it generates a lot of conversation between my clients and I'm sure they talk to their partners about it and all their friends and saying, oh, you know, my trainer did this and this and this and that's a touch point. And what does a touch point turn into? A conversation? And a conversation turns into maybe a bit of interest. Interest eventually turns into maybe an inquiry, and so it goes. So yes, I feel like a weirdo posting it, but you know, I want to help more people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah you believe in the product. Okay, cool, rolling it on Number six in health. People are holding you accountable. To hold them accountable, tell them what they need to hear, Even if it's not so nice to hear.
Speaker 2:Time on Okay, Okay. Of all the clients I've seen and trained over the last 10 plus years, I would say there's a small subsection and by small I mean under 5% of people who you can write a program for, give it to them and trust they're going to do it to the letter of the law. The other 95% probably need a phone call, a text message, a hand being held or whatever else. If I were to guess, I would say you could spend 90% of your time checking in with people and 10% of your time writing programs. If I had to put a stat to it, the accountability is everything. The initial program solves the initial problem. Once that trust is there, it's all about the accountability, the friendship everything else, you know, doing the damn thing.
Speaker 1:We keep saying it doesn't matter how great the program is, like it could be pretty simple, but you get an awesome result if you just do it as is prescribed. And most people don't. And and it's funny because one of our probably most valuable high value clients is turns around and says it to me and he's walking out after a 5 am session mate, thanks for holding me accountable. See, if I make sure I'm there, make sure I'm, and I'm like I feel like, oh, I've got a responsibility to hold him responsible. This is a weird dynamic power dynamic thing. He's like telling me to tell him to adhere to the thing that he's paid for. But that's what it is, you know. And and if I didn't, and if he missed, and then he missed another and another, and three months in he hasn't got the result that he wanted, he's gonna go like it's just not working out and it is.
Speaker 1:It's an accountability piece. It's assigning that time. It's saying well done when it is done well. And it's saying hey, not good enough, or hey, come on, you said, and it's again being objective to it. And that's why you know that initial program plan and the agreement you ready? Great, we're locked in, it's irreplaceable, and that's why people need trainers and they need human to human. And that is the one thing that future proofs our industry, because a robot can remind you but you'll go, you're just a fucking robot, I don't care. And I think it's super important that when it's another human, that means there's so much more. And then group fitness as a business succeeds. It's why our industry has turned to group, because your mate's going and there's a social pressure thing that is like, well, if he can do it, I'm gonna do it. I don't want to be the guy that slept in. Everyone goes oh, he slept like. No one wants to be that that person. So it's leverage and you end up becoming and getting better because of it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's, it's incredibly valuable I think of this in two parts. I always think I always come back to the trainer like what would a trainer think? I this in two parts. I always think. I always come back to the trainer Like what would a trainer think?
Speaker 2:I think in the early stages of a trainer, you should really spend a lot of time on your book and to define that, checking in with clients, making sure they're okay, booking in next week, writing the programs and just being that person that's always there and available for them. And what does that drive? It drives retention. It drives like having a steady book of revenue or income and that allows you to sort of prosper going forward. I think that's a year one to year three-ish, year four sort of journey. And then it turns to okay, I've got a full book of people. Now you're setting the expectation and people almost feel bad letting you down. And I know for you know where you and I. I get this feedback a lot is people don't want to let me down when I say we're here at this time, don't miss, and so that's another form of accountability there as well. So for the early stage trainer, I think you really got to nurture them. It's very nurturing.
Speaker 2:Very nurturing Once you're busy, and that's your value.
Speaker 1:You don't have the knowledge, skill set, experience, but you have the capacity Correct.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point. You've got the time. Once you get to the point where you've developed those skills, then you can level up for lack of a better word and your availability.
Speaker 1:It becomes harder to have two hours to text message, phone call, accountability. You don't have that time because now you're, you know, say if you want to train with me, we'll get good results. But, mate, like the expectation's here and yet don't let me down. Don't let yourself down. My favorite one is our friend Arif. He won't mind me sharing this story, I hope.
Speaker 1:I just remember walking into the gym one time and he's, you know as he's doing big mouth and he's strong, like he's one of the strongest dudes in here. What's his biggest deadlift? I think it was 232. You know, like no one's lifting, that it's double body weight and so. But he hadn't done enough cardio, he probably didn't have the cleanest diet, held a little bit more non-functional mass body fat than he probably wanted. And he was yapping at me and I just said, arif, I cannot wait for you to decide to just sort your diet out and just be ripped and super fit, because you're the strongest prick in here and I'd love it if you were the fittest, most ripped. And he went oh, my wife called me fat this morning too, thanks mate. And I sort of felt kind of bad and worried about it. Six weeks after that he had lost eight kgs or something crazy. He just dialed in and I was like shit.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you've got to be a bit of a bad cop. Depending on the personality, there's a degree of sensitivity. What the client needs, sure, but sometimes just an objective come on, do it is all someone needs and they can then prove to themselves, to you, and so it goes and a big success piece comes out of that. So you know, that's just one of my favorites and it's just so funny how it's going to be subjective, but you can do it and you have to. When you're working in our industry, you've got to be the bad cop sometimes. Let's keep it rolling, earning your stripes as a practitioner and business owner, and this probably talks to kind of what you said in your early years from the accountability piece, um, but from a business perspective, reverse engineer it and where we went to tell me how you know. I think if you look at a lot of people look at it as this big facility, lots of members, etc. It started pretty simply and pretty humbly.
Speaker 2:Okay, so story time in just a quick 30 second spiel. Working at a gym in the Valley in school. So when I was 16, 17, I met Rory McGuire, so your older brother. We were friends for about two years. We started the bootcamp in nine when I was 18, 19. So I've been working in a gym for about two years, did the bootcamp for about two years and when I turned 19, we signed a lease for our first gym in Milton. So I'd been working for more or less four years, training clients, doing group fitness, doing all that sort of stuff, and so that signing of the lease was officially Soft Facility 14th of February 2015.
Speaker 2:10 years ago. Yep, so at the time my math was if I have enough clients to pay the rent and some, then that's a good deal. So pretty stupid math, but anyway. And then for the first three years in Milton more or less did every single session that I possibly could PT, group, fitness, whatever. So after about seven years of running sessions I would have done easy 40, 50 sessions a week. And I know people say 40, 50 sessions like no, no, like 40, 50 sessions a week would be a light week doing everything I could to make a dollar. I'm a bit of a stat guy so I always think you know 50 sessions a week times 52 weeks a year, times seven years. Anyway, do the math on that.
Speaker 2:And that's where you start to really hone in on your skill set from a technical perspective. You know how to cue, what to say, how to set up the room, how to interact with clients, and that is the fundamental part of your job as a trainer is to be technically sound at what you do. And then you need to layer in the extra principles of what's the environment like, what's the feel like, how are you as a, you know, a communicator or a leader and all those things, but fundamentally you need to be able to get a client, an outcome, technically, a technical part of the job, which is get them stronger, get them fitter, help them lose body fat. That's step one.
Speaker 1:And so it goes, you know, and, and from an opening business perspective again, it's like we see we see practitioners come in and we see them do an internship, get an opportunity to work with us and and want to be the business operator. So quickly a year or two later and it's like mate. There's been a lot of suffering and it's probably something we could have communicated better, not only internally to our team and members, but just, you know, in general, to people listening to this and professionals in the industry. It was hands on the grass at 6 am in winter. You know running and getting, you know bindis in your hands and all that simple stuff that this business started and it's what gives it its authenticity, to get it to where it is, and that'll never be taken away from this place. It'll never be taken away from you.
Speaker 1:That gives something, a feel that is irreplaceable.
Speaker 1:It's like a strife in the sky that you just you can't replace, that you can't buy, that you can't learn, that you have to do it.
Speaker 1:And that, for, for me, is why there's still a unique feel about how we operate this place and people say it and uh, and it's because it started in a park, it started with signing that lease in milton and going all right, we're just going to work it out, it'll bring us to our next lesson in a second, but you got to just do that and it's very, very hard to just walk in, purchase and go. If you haven't done that time, be it as a practitioner, be it as a business owner and I think where we are now, 10 years later, you realize why small business owners and even medium big business owners have a degree of sort of they've got a bit of a hard edge is because you're going to struggle. It's going to be hard, probably more often than it's going to be awesome, fun and easy, and in doing so you're going to actually earn that stripe and have a sense of pride about how you operate. But you're not going to be pushed around because if you allow that to happen too much, you won't survive nothing.
Speaker 2:I think, I think, culturally, for you and I there's a bit of that. You know, obviously, you being from Africa and my grandparents being from Italy Whenever I see my granddad, he always asks me you know, how are clients going? What's work like? Are you working like just crazy, like there's no, did you have a day off? And I think to myself in the 10 years I've missed three sessions because I slept in in 10 years and they're all 5 am and I remember all three of them really clearly and it just kills me to this day. But when, or if you want to decide going from being an employee to a owner operator, that is a really fun and fulfilling journey. It's exciting. It's exciting initially, initially no, it still is. I love it. But you have to understand which, unfortunately, you won't understand until you do it. But you have to understand that everything is on you. That's it. If you sleep in, if you don't pay the bill, if someone else sleeps, if someone else sleeps in, that's on you.
Speaker 1:The acorn breaks, yeah yeah, and so it goes. Yeah, it's true, right? Yeah, lesson number eight work it out, you will work it, work it out. And I wanted to really stay on the opening of the facilities. We've you're open milton. We did south brisbane. We, on the opening of the facilities. We've opened Milton. We did South Brisbane, we did the studio in the Gabba. We then did, you know, down the ramp here in Montague Road and West End and we did Platinum next door and then we did Burley. So we've done it a few times. Yeah, turnaround specialists, turnaround specialists. How many times did we look at it two weeks out and go? It's not going to work out?
Speaker 2:We worked it out. Yeah, work it out's a funny one. There's dollars, you know, financially. There's time Can we get things done in this time? And then there's the effort required to do so. So, if I use a really funny example, when we were building Platinum, we got the demo bill and it was 30 grand. And I said to dad there is zero chance that I'm paying 30 grand to do this demo. You and I are doing it ourselves. And we worked it out. So dad and I were on top of the platinum roof and there was an air con vent on the roof and if you put your foot in the wrong place, you're going through this roof. So what does dad do? He puts his foot in the wrong spot and goes through the vent. So I'm half holding this vent and if I let this thing go, dad's dead. I'm dead. And the bathroom had just been done. So I was like I was more worried about the bathroom than your lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I don't know, we spent 100 grand on the bathroom. So I was like, if we ruin this bathroom, I will let dad die before this bathroom gets ruined. And so I'm holding this air convent like my life depended on me, and I'm like dad, you get the fuck up right now because I'm gonna drop this thing. And he just anyway gets up, we pull the air convent off and, um, we just kind of hugged and laughed it out and just got on with it, worked it out, um, but that's one of those ones where, you know, I wasn't going to pay the 30 grand to do the demo. I was like, no, we'll do it ourself. The time it took to do the demo was far longer than what we would have done if we just paid the 30. And then the effort required was, you know, we had to move the air con vent ourselves, which could have been, you know, redo the bathrooms and lose your dad. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that was one example on, you know, a Thursday morning or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's, you know, but it's again, it's part of the ending the strides, it's part of the nature of kind of what makes this place what it is, you know it's, I mean, the amount of times we did those late, late nights, finishing on the Sunday going holy shit, have we finished? Well, yeah, it's finished enough to work it out. I mean, mate, we got flooded, you know, and the whole gym downstairs and here in West End it was gutted out. We had to rip the floor out, gurney the mats and we were open again on the Thursday. We were underwater Monday morning. Okay, gym won't operate today. Guys, hopefully we can turn it around. Suddenly the gym was underwater. Okay, well, won't open tomorrow. We'll try again. We'll try it for Wednesday. Now, wednesday's not going to work. See you all Thursday. Everyone was in lifting weights Thursdays Queensland had just been flooded.
Speaker 2:That was two weeks after our birthday too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, after our 8th, 7th, 7th or 8th, yeah, the 21st, so 2021, so it's actually been a few more years since then, jesus, but again, you work it out. We could operate, we could charge people membership for that, we can provide a service for them, and I think we've always held ourselves as best as we could accountable to that Well, I think as well.
Speaker 2:I want to give a really literal example. It cost us somewhere between 50 and 70 grand flood in terms of fixing everything up, and that doesn't take into consideration the loss in revenue in that time too, and so naturally they had a flood disaster thing. We put our application in and I got my cousin, who has an abn, to do work for us, which he actually did, and they knocked it back because of next of kin or you know like too close in family or something like that. So that's, you know, 70 grand we'll call it even 60 grand of out-of-pocket expenses for something that you know we couldn't control. The flood, plus, you know a week of lost revenue, which is you know whatever it ended up being, and we could have sat there and gone. Oh man, you know that's that sucks. You know, poor us. But you know we love this business, we work it out and I think there's a. I'm most proud of those things above anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure a similar point, um, probably more in a business sense, I think, is the lesson from, for this one pressure creates diamonds. If you want to grow something, you've got to put pressure on yourself. Um and uh and, and let's talk to that. How do we do that? And I think the platinum opening of this place and trying to force ourselves to go to a next level as a business, um, really put us under pressure, but I think what we've created as a product as a result is there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good point. So when we finished at the Gabba, we wanted to keep the product going.
Speaker 1:Which is the yoga Pilates, the yin to the yang of the group fitness program, which is super important to us.
Speaker 2:We got really lucky with the timing in terms of the space next door being available, so that's one of those blessings. So we go okay, let's take a gamble next door being available, so that's one of those blessings.
Speaker 1:So we go okay, let's let's take a gamble and punting everything we've worked to build for the last six years correct on the line, correct as a minimum rent was more than double.
Speaker 2:In terms of size, there's four times the size and space and as a product, we were going from, you know, roughly 40 to 60 dollars per week for a product. We were going from roughly $40 to $60 per week for a product to something that we deemed somewhere in the $120 plus per week realm. So we're not only quadrupling our space, doubling our rent, we're forexing our price. So we're creating a product that we go. I don't know if this has legs. We'd sort of been back and forth with we think it has legs, but we don't really know. So from day one, we had the fit out which we'd sort of been back and forth with. We think it has legs, but we don't really know.
Speaker 2:So from day one, we had the fit out which we'd sort of budgeted at X, and then it ended up being not quite 2X, but pretty close to 2X by the time everything came in Trade delay, loss of revenue from not being open at a certain time and whatever. So we go, okay. Well, in order to make this thing work, we need X amount of signups to start on day one, you know. So what do we do we go? Okay, well, what does the rent cost, what does the fit out cost and all that sort of stuff?
Speaker 2:Extrapolate that into a weekly sum how many memberships is that at $120 a week, from day dot, from day dot. And so we sat there upstairs on the whiteboard like a crazy person, emailing, calling, emailing, calling. And I remember sitting there with Art specifically, and we got the number on day one and there was this big moment of relief and joy and everything, cause we knew we could open up. A premises was which was at least going to break. Even factoring in, you know, it was more than double expensive to what we had initially anticipated. So, again, one of those moments you're just really proud of and you work it out and you work it out, work it out.
Speaker 1:So you know it's funny and I think since opening that there's probably another 10 lessons in it, putting that pressure on ourselves to deliver that product. And I think over the first year, maybe a year and a half, we didn't nail the delivery of $120, $150, $170 a week product. But again, you've learned and, as a result, we've now got a product that truly matches that in value, in fact exceeds that in value, which is what you want to be offering, particularly in a service sense. So you know, but if we didn't demand that of ourselves from a sales execution perspective and then from a serviceability perspective, we wouldn't know and we probably wouldn't be there. And you know, hopefully, in doing that and that's why we do this podcast and why we do what we do hopefully the industry seeing that and can latch onto it and provide those products that that one people need to actually stack up work as a business.
Speaker 2:What I find interesting to that as well is, you know, pricing. I don't get too much from pricing today. Um, and I'm not saying we're the pioneers of pricing, because we're definitely not, you know, we just learn from everyone else and try to apply it as best we can. But a lot of the pricing a couple of years ago was that sub $100 mark in terms of consultations and those sorts of things. And if you look around these days it's so much higher than that as a minimum. And sure, like you know, you learn from each other and everything like that. But when we transitioned into Platinum, it was a really big push for us to go value, value, value and price comes with that, rather than just playing the volume game and that was for us we're trying to clearly distinguish the difference between our group fitness gym and our Platinum gym. So yeah, interesting little sub point, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Cool. And then the last one picking your business partners wisely 've you've had a few? We've had a few. And it's funny, uh, for me, the business advisors, the accountants, the lawyers that we've worked with come across are always like mate, this is much more important than you. And when we were young, just mate, we'll just sign a partner. We'll just, we're going together, we'll do it. We'll do it, we'll do it when you're young just sign a partner, we'll just go together, we'll do it, we'll do it. We'll do it. When you're young, you do. Ten years later, particularly now, someone comes and wants to be a partner in this business. It's like hang on a second, slow down. And to the young business person out there, that's learning, that's starting their business is bringing a partner in, whatever it might be. We've had some lessons, both good ones bad, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:You know we've had some lessons, but good ones, bad ones. From a business partner's perspective, yeah, haven't we? Just when do I sit on this? I fall somewhere between being young, dumb and naive and just going to fucking do it and listening to older people say no, like you know, do this properly. And I have one person in particular, or two people in particular, that I really listen to. Do I take their advice on? But do I listen to them? Yeah, different story. So you know if I'm speaking for myself, I've learned a lot from business partners. The thing that I value most is you know I used this joke the other day it's the minerals or the content in someone and whether they have the grid or not.
Speaker 2:How do you put that on a piece of paper? I've got no idea, but you can sort of just tell. If I was advising someone you know younger or in a earlier stage than I was I am, I would say, definitely, you know, sign the thing, get the thing done documented formally. But then it's like definitely, you know, sign the thing, get the thing done documented formally. But then it's like would I actually do that myself? Well, now I would, but back then I didn't. So you know. To come back to the feel of things, I think you need to understand two things about business partners. Do they compliment you and what are they made of? Because I'm a very task orientated person. If I was working very task-orientated person, if I was working with another task-orientated person, it wouldn't work as well. That's why you and I work so well. You know, you create products, you're a visionary, you understand the way things are going and I get them done 100%.
Speaker 1:Very simply.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, 100%, and it's. You know, I think there's sort of two sides for me. One you can't do it on your own. You will not do it on your own, it's really hard. So you do need a business partner and I recommend people, particularly service-based, going out and like you need it, but at the same time, set it up safely, set it up structured, structured like with the proper business legal stuff, as all the old wise heads did tell us do it, do it so you don't get screwed, because at the same time it can cause everything to collapse. And you know, we've been in places. You've been, we've been in places multiple times where the entire fabric of what this is has been on the line because we haven't set up things properly from the outset and throughout in terms of partnerships and bringing people on. So you know, and that's that lesson learned, and I think the other part, from a business partner perspective, is just like staff, just like any decent relationship, put the feeling side, feeling part of side. You've got to be objective. What are you enjoying, what are you not enjoying?
Speaker 1:I think one of the favorite conversations I've ever had with you, particularly when it was quite clear that it was going to be you and I as partners. When Platinum was on the line, I sat down and I said okay, Joey, I want you to tell me what I do. That gives you the shits. And I could probably tell you I think it's this, this, this and this. Is there anything else you'd add? And you're like, oh, probably two more things, this and this, great.
Speaker 1:And then I returned, serve, but it was out and it was clear and I was like, cool, we're still. We're still two guys that want to achieve the same thing. We're on the same page. But we cleared that air and I think you know, in our experience, it's probably business partners that we've had that we wish did that earlier, um, but they come and go and everything happens for a reason. But it's um, it's pretty great when you can have a business partnership and it make it work and you want the same outcome and you do whatever it takes. Learn the 10 lessons and apply it to to get there. So you know it's, it's worth doing. But, yeah, save yourself a lot of headaches, a lot of hassle.
Speaker 2:Set shit up properly from the outset and then be objective and clear and have the tough conversations as often and as uh as, as, as honestly as possible yeah, I think, when you come from a place of objectivity, rather than feeling, if the other person can't handle it, it's their problem, it's not your problem and that's something I'm trying to work on myself is you're not trying to be an asshole to them. Sometimes it's simply a matter of fact. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to go with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. Well, joey, bit of fun, mate. 10 years, 10 lessons. Here's to another 10 and 20 lessons. But being able to bottle it up and, I think, share this is a very important part for us. And, um, hopefully there's someone listening to this that is on their own journey and setting up their own thing in whatever way, shape or form, uh, and and can go with it. And I think, you know, hopefully the people that are listening to this that work with us maybe get a little bit more of an insight as to what's going on to get it to where it is. And, um, you know, we always want it to be better. We always want to, you know, go to a place that exceeds where we are. There's never a sense of satisfaction. We're there, um, but at the same time, that's the beauty of it, that's why we do it, not for a destination, it's for the journey. So, um, it's been a lot of fun, mate, and here's to another 10 a.
Speaker 2:It's been really good and I just want to say hopefully this comes out in time if you're around next saturday or this saturday coming, so it'll be the 15th. Yes, february, the 15th is a saturday. We're having our 10 year workout in West End. Check all the social platforms for the link. Book a ticket.
Speaker 1:We'd love to see you there, come and bleed some hydrogen ions and then soak it up with a coffee and see what it's all about. Awesome thanks, joey cheers. Thanks for listening to today's episode. For more regular insights into SOF, be sure to check us out on Instagram or Facebook or visit our website at scienceoffitnesscomau. Once again, we thank you for tuning in to the Science of Fitness podcast.