The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
Beyond the Numbers: Brandon Marangelli's Fitness Journey
What happens when life's challenges redirect your entire career path? Brandon Marangeli's journey from architecture to becoming a fixture in our fitness community illuminates how adversity can unveil our true calling.
Brandon takes us back to the soccer field where an undiagnosed ACL injury—one he remarkably played through for two years—eventually led him away from architecture and into the world of exercise science. This pivotal moment didn't just change his career trajectory; it ignited a passion for helping others move better and understand their bodies.
As our conversation unfolds, we explore how fitness testing and data collection have evolved over the years. Brandon shares valuable insights into why the initial excitement around performance metrics often wanes for long-term gym members, leading us to reimagine how we integrate assessments into our programming. Rather than creating high-pressure testing environments, we've learned to weave evaluation opportunities naturally throughout training cycles, allowing members to showcase their abilities when they're truly ready.
The most captivating segment delves into Brandon's extraordinary endurance journey—from casual 5km bike rides to completing multiple Ironman competitions and a 50km ultra-marathon. His philosophy of "making small ripples first" serves as a powerful reminder that monumental achievements begin with humble first steps. For anyone feeling overwhelmed by ambitious fitness goals, Brandon's methodical progression offers a masterclass in patience and persistence.
We also tackle the growing challenge of data saturation in today's fitness landscape. With wearables tracking every metric imaginable, many find themselves drowning in numbers rather than focusing on consistent fundamentals. Brandon unpacks how this affects different demographics, particularly noting how priorities shift as members move through different life stages with careers and families.
Whether you're a running enthusiast curious about preventing injuries, a fitness professional interested in effective testing methods, or simply someone seeking motivation to start your own fitness journey, this conversation delivers practical wisdom alongside thought-provoking perspectives on what truly constitutes success in our physical endeavors.
Welcome to the Science of Fitness podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life, as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, fitness, performance, business and wellness. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast. Today we have Mr Brandon Marangeli on the show Very exciting episode. Brandon's one of our team and has been probably now a longer standing staff member, which is a pretty big milestone for us, and, matt glad to have you on Welcome, thank you. So a lot of people out there don't really know, I guess, brandon's story and your role within us. Obviously, the members probably see you the most, particularly the group fitness guys downstairs lifting the weights and doing the hard, sweaty stuff. So let's unpack your story, particularly before you got into exercise science and what took you there, and then, obviously, your journey with us. So way back when you finished school, what did you?
Speaker 2:go into Straight out of school. I went into architecture of all things. It was back in the day we had the QTAC form and they recommended advice was if you had a high OP thing to put down, go for that. If you get it, you get in. Lo and behold, architecture was number one, got into it. Number two, three, four, all sport related. Number five another architectural one Got into the architecture, didn't really look back and I was like here we go, this is adult life, this is stepping out of school into the big leagues.
Speaker 1:Nice. How long did you study or stay in architecture?
Speaker 2:I graduated the bachelor's at UQ straight out of school. So that was a good three years, pretty fun, not going to lie. Architecture you get a lot of creative freedom, which is good. Jumped out into the workforce and life was going pretty good. Went back, started the masters. Things didn't go so good then. Life got not really turned upside down, but my feet got swept out from underneath me, picked up an ACL injury. Okay, that's where things really started to turn. Had the surgery, got it all done and fixed and I was just really surprised and shocked by how good the health care that I got was and I was like I remember sitting at the architecture desk one day just doing drawings. I was like if I'm going to be sitting down, it's going to be making someone move or I'm going to be moving myself. Yeah it's. I can't stand sitting down for a job unless you know I'm active and doing it and it's kind of a big part of who I was kind of growing up as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's stay on that a little bit. So how did you do your ACL?
Speaker 2:I was playing soccer yeah, typical ACL. In the middle of the field, no one around me, bang down, yeah down. I brushed it off, continued running Five minutes later shielding the ball out, a guy behind me and I've gone down again, knees just absolutely ballooned up. And so, yeah, that was it. I was off the field, didn't get it, looked at straight away, went to a physio and they were a bit unsure whether it was or not and, being a young bloke out of home, invincible, nothing's wrong with me. So I think I ended up playing on it for about two years, just changing the way I played soccer, um, which was fine, adapted my game so so you did your acl, didn't really know you'd done your acl, played on it for two years, yeah, and it was probably ruptured the mri and the orthoscopic scans crazy, it's nothing there.
Speaker 1:How long did it take you to get those scans? Two years, yeah, yeah, wow. Why do you always continue to surprise me, mate, I've worked with you for this long. You don't have these fantastic stories at the ready for me. There's too much to tell. Sometimes, yeah, okay, that's pretty crazy. I mean, how many people out there can say, yeah, do my ACL and just, non-operative, carry it on?
Speaker 2:What's even more amazing, pretty minimal strength training alongside with it, that is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, okay, so you did your ACL. Where were you in your studies and through you know, through architecture? At this point, that was 2016.
Speaker 2:And that was I graduated the bachelor's in 2015. So I did a year out full-time working, and then that would have been.
Speaker 1:In that year, 16, you did the ACL while you were full-time working. Yeah, Didn't know you'd done the ACL. No, Just had a sore blown up knee, let it settle down. Carried on playing sport was doing the masters.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not good, not good with that.
Speaker 1:As in just didn't like it. It was too intense, wasn't doing well, wasn't enjoying.
Speaker 2:It wasn't cool, wasn't doing well, wasn't enjoying it, and that's kind of to be quite studious. I thought growing up in high school, and particularly through the first part of uni and through the later degree that I did, I was like I'm not enjoying this. This is not good, not a good sign.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, interesting. And then, at what point did you get? No, this knee isn't right.
Speaker 2:I think I remember playing at Annerley. It's actually funny. There was an engineer that I talked with at the architecture firm. He was playing on the other team and he's just come across me and blocked the ball. Fair play to him and my knee's just like not happy at all. He got me on the right side, which was where it was, and yeah, I had to see the physio again, got a second opinion and they did a couple of different things and they're like we should probably get a scan and that's how it happened.
Speaker 1:And then you got the scan and you've actually done your ACL and you've probably done it a long time ago. How long was it from that diagnosis to you know? Okay, let's get surgery and let's get into it.
Speaker 2:I think it was pretty quick. It was, I'd like to say, two months, but I'm not too sure. Yeah, quick turnaround. I just know that I had a fairly decent rehab.
Speaker 1:Not, not too sure. Yeah, quick turn around.
Speaker 2:I just know that I had a fairly decent rehab not the greatest, but decent, yeah, okay. So, um, by then had you changed your mind about, you know, your career path? Um, no, I actually remember sitting in the office with my leg up on another chair post surgery. Yeah, yeah, wow, just man, I can't handle this, yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 1:And then obviously there's the whole mental side and the motivation side, career-wise. Yeah, it's really funny because you know. So you went through that. You did the surgery, you were working, you were rehabbing and then through that process of rehab you sort of you know, really got the taste of the old ex-science and high-performance world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, really latched onto it yeah.
Speaker 1:Where did you do your rehab, so you?
Speaker 2:had surgery. Was it all through the hospital system? Yeah, so I had the hospital physio, which was kind of more discharged. This is how you walk the crutches don't bend the knee, don't do anything too crazy, keep it in this. And then I was seeing a physio and we had a few exercises and did a few weekly, monthly catch-ups with it going on. And that was just the basic exercises, stuff you can do at home. I wasn't at the gym per se, but you know I had access to a bag that I could do some type of knee extension on, could set up a quad extension. I had a couple of bands to do that with as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right. And then you know, as you went through that process and felt the muscles get stronger and the knee rehab and get better and better, at what point was there just this tipping point where you went?
Speaker 2:I need to go and do this. I need to go and.
Speaker 1:I need to, you know, make a big, big decision in your life.
Speaker 2:Oh, it boiled with me for a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah sure I remember telling mom. It was like oh, it's one of the conversations you don't really want to have Moving out of home. It's like oh, mom, I'm going to restart uni again, nice, no, they took it pretty well. Yeah, Still scary to tell them, but it was pretty. I think it might have been boiling in my head before it happened as well, just because I would have had troubles with the knee before I actually got the surgery as well. So it was just kind of another thing. Another thing, another thing, small minus head back. And then I think that, yeah, this tipping point was oh, I've had this surgery. I've seen how I've improved through others. Can I make that change to them instead of moving toilet from the right-hand side to the left-hand side?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, okay, yeah, cool, interesting, um, and then you take the plunge. Did you? Did you stop working in in sort of architecture completely and just go straight into science or what did you do? How did you? How did you navigate studying now as what would have been a mature age student? And you know you've got this deep sort of desire and founded passion with it. It's obviously been on the radar. As you said, you know post-school. How did you navigate all that?
Speaker 2:I was actually lucky enough to get a few credits brought across. So the first year, I think, I only do three subjects, so I was still doing full-time uni, but I was able to manage that with the workload and then, once those credits were kind of gone sorry, no, I had a bridging six months. I started the exercise and nutrition science degree, did a few subjects that I could pop off, mostly external, more the theory stuff. So when I started exercise and sports science I had a few credits ticked off. So I think I stayed in architecture for another six to nine months and then I was like okay, I can't really hide full-time uni from these guys, I'll have to pull the plug.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I did picked up more sports-related work as well. I started working as a sports trainer for one of the local companies and every Saturday, the occasional afternoon, I was out with my medic kit helping young boys Catching ACLs yeah, handing out ice bags and Band-Aids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice, nice. It's probably the number one job that I think anyone doing ex-science, ex-phys, physio therapy should be doing whilst they're studying is go and get a sports trainer qualification, particularly if you've got the luxury of doing this in Australia. Get your sports trainer qualification, align yourself with a club, build a relationship with them and then go, because you will learn so much and you'll get. You just get that real world experience and you're working with bodies, you're strapping them, you're touching, you're testing, you're seeing things and, more importantly, you start to build the practitioner skills of you know negotiating different personalities and speaking to coaches and all those sorts of things which you know you just can't get taught in university. So that real world experience is worth it.
Speaker 2:No, don't turn my back on doing that job either. It was such a great experience I mean such the vast variety of stuff that I was able to do as well Like I've gone from rugby union. I was at a fencing one time that wasn't too eventful, but how often do you go to fencing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like there's been volleyball days, a lot of jarred fingers, really good at strapping around the wrist. Obviously, ankles come in every day. But one of the favorite things was just handing out the ice bag when you just know the kids had a bad day. They just need some time to sit down. So you send the coach away, you send the parents away and just let them sit there, have a little bit of a moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty interesting, cool. And then you know you sort of flew through uni and uh, and, and you did your placement with us and, as life goes, you know, adversity just keeps striking. And yeah, you were sort of set up for your on your internship and then covid reared its ugly head and compromised that experience because you were when did, did you do summer semester? Yeah, yeah. So you're doing summer semester, 1920, I think it was 20.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, would have been.
Speaker 1:It was 1920, and then the back end of it got compromised because of COVID, the front end.
Speaker 2:So I started in semester one and that's when COVID really came in.
Speaker 1:Okay so you're doing sorry. So you're doing semester one and, as you started, covid hit yeah, and so then we had to close the gym and you had no prac and no placement, yep, and you had to do these hours and the uni was like, oh, do it on Zoom, and how do you do that?
Speaker 2:I don't think they allowed it. They made the call saying you can risk your placement site reopening because this was before the financial cutoff for the course as well. Okay, or you can get rid of it and go again in the summer semester, and that was kind of the best option at the time, which was good. Yeah, option at the time which was good, yeah, sit tight.
Speaker 1:And then eventually you came through and did it. I mean, you were engaged with us that entire year. I remember you being around the whole time.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was. It was so great to actually have that length of time to really pick up a lot more than what you can in the 13 weeks that you normally get. Even though it's only two hours every second day or so, it really added up. I remember going out to Jeeps when it was cold. I was still able to do that and no, it was just good because again saw other things there made that relevant to what I was doing with sports training as well and seeing that at a slightly higher level than schoolboy level as well, you can take a lot of things, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool. And then from there, matt, we just hit the ground running and I think I remember distinctly your interest in biomechanics and you showed me your major assignment that you did on the biomechanics of rowing on a rowing erg, the Concept2 erg, and how you had done that whole breakdown. And for me that was really exciting because you know, I've come from a high-performance world and love movement, love mechanics. Love movement mechanics Not that great with data, you know I love love movement mechanics not that great with data, you know I love the teaching side of things. Um, I understand the value of data and the due diligence of data is where I probably fall short. Um, and then you know this is sort of your, your big area that you're most interested in and so you know, conceptually I was looking at our group fitness program and covet obviously gave us time and made us creative and everything else, but the big thing I wanted was to incorporate more data into general pops, you know. Know, gym and training and particularly a group fitness program, so it could be more informed, more educated, more targeted and more valuable for the members and sort of that's when you know, your incorporation came in. And, yeah, for your first couple of years with us. You're our data guy, so let's talk through that.
Speaker 1:Because at the same time, we were getting the vault system in around 2019 and around 2019 and I wanted to use and incorporate the force plates. And that was. I remember speaking to them and they were sort of a little bit like, oh yeah, mate, a few gyms are doing this, but okay, see how you go. And I was like no, this is what I want to do and let's bring this stuff to the general population.
Speaker 1:And since then, watching VOLD move into the clinical space and watching clinics and gyms and all sorts of practices bring data in has been really interesting and I sort of like to think we're kind of at the forefront of it as a brand. And so you know, let's talk through that process. And I guess how we've evolved that preconceptions we had where we thought it would be more um, more interesting, more uptake, um. We thought, you know, the members would really love it and it had set us apart from everything else. And then, in reality, what have we learned from that? So you know what a couple of the majors that you've observed over the years with the use of, particularly the vault and the heavy biomechanical stuff for generalized group fitness.
Speaker 2:Well, I still want to take us back to the start of the internship. We do a testing week here and that's quite evolved over the time that I've been here. But before I was involved you had one spreadsheet, had a list of names, had columns, rows. You put in the values and there wasn't really anything that you could give back to the clients, and that was something that you and Joe were trying to evolve and really start with our. This is our data that we're giving back to you. So the very first thing that I kind of did here and had a bit of creative freedom with was, as an intern, was kind of revamping that and giving a report card option to send back Not only a report card but to send back not only report card but something that could pretty much be made in front of you. You get the qr code, you put the result and you put the name in. It goes in the spreadsheet at the end of the week, find the client's name, click it, print done, um. So I think that that's probably our starting point and from that you can really see.
Speaker 2:From back when that was kind of new, everyone loved testing. Testing week specifically we're talking pure strength testing. They'd be so excited to work through the program, build up to it and then bang, it's testing week, let's go, I'm ready, I'm fired up. What did you get last time? What did I get last time, you know? So that was a really good uptake. And then that vault stuff's kind of crept in from there as well, and everyone loves a new toy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, until you jump one too many times. Yeah, but the force plates great addition. Um, just the versatility for a general punter as well. Yeah, how high can I jump? I don't need a slow motion camera in a ruler. I don't need one of those high volleyball things to hit. Um, what can I get on a mid-thigh pool if I had to absolutely lift a car to save a couple of kittens underneath, could I do it? You know um great little information to have and I think that's transformed well over the years and I know vol's doing good things by having more percentiles and um more that you can give back saying you're pretty average, you're above average. As a gym goer, you do sit above the general population in terms of what your strengths are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it gives people that understanding and it motivates a lot of people, which I think is, at the end of the day, a very important factor. We want people to adhere. People want to get the result. The result only comes if they adhere, and we know that. Um and so if they're categorized in a way that is, hey, like you know, you've been training, but how valuable has it been? Or you've ignored your physicality for the last 20 years of your life and you're way behind the mean, behind the average.
Speaker 2:So you know, let's get you, let's get you focused, let's get a result and that's always the fun part as well as around that testing time is, people will come in and you'll hear it. They'll be loud and proud like, yeah, I've got 12 chin-ups in a row this time, last time I had eight. I've done so well, and you'll have those people that kind of shy away, hide in the shadows a bit. Um, my back squat was 80 kilos last time, but I've dropped down to 75 and I mean it's multifactorial as to why that could happen.
Speaker 2:You know, life happens, um, consistency happens, like if you're not hitting the gym like you used to, you kind of fall off the bandwagon a little bit. You really need to get back on to be consistent and be better. Yeah, and that's that's something we notice as well. A lot of the times, the hard conversations around testing week is, that is when people aren't actually in the gym and that's the number one thing you can do to be better in regards to this let's just turn up and that's what sort of brings up.
Speaker 1:The next question is like how have you seen it evolved? And how have you seen the adherence evolve? Because we've kind of changed our approach to testing week from a programming perspective, because we saw a drop off in the Enthusiasm 2 test and I think people, particularly those consistent that have been training us with us for a long time the diminishing return is actually quite demotivating from a training perspective. I didn't get stronger, In fact I got a bit worse and then we have to unravel that. Well, why'd you get worse? You also ran a half marathon. You've never done that in your life. So you're not going to have a PB back squat in this phase, this quarter, because you've completely 100% increased on your running load. So how have we seen that sort of evolve? And then, what have we done from a navigation perspective?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, like the fads are coming thick and fast right now. You've had, obviously, the running trend is probably most popular right now. High rocks is another one in there like strength and endurance, trying to come in giving CrossFit a bit of run for its money, but it it's quite hard. So I think with the gym, we'd like to focus on longevity, and once you've been here a while and you've started to hit those points and your schedule changes and you can't really be the best you can be because you can't prioritize it at the moment. That's when it kind of falls back to oh, I was away. I had a europe trip last month. I'm fully behind. I don't want to test. I don't want to test. Yeah, I'm just going to be bored by the numbers. It's not going to be better, it's not going to be good for me mentally. So it's kind of that's a strong statement right Flicking to the day and age of data everywhere.
Speaker 2:You got your whoop, your gum and your heart rate monitor. Did your aura track your sleep last night? Everything. We're getting cloudy and it's hard to focus on. Well, am I being healthier? Am I being better? Does the testing number really matter, or can I leverage what I can do now to help set up my next three months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So you would say there's almost too much noise, there's too much data. We're getting drowned on all this information and we're seeing a lack of motivation to seek more data from a testing week perspective, Well, you know, you can't compare yourself to anyone else.
Speaker 2:It's always you versus you, and you five months ago. You don't want to be worse than that. You want to be constantly getting better and getting better. And if you find out that, oh.
Speaker 1:I've been to the gym once a week and then you have to deal with some harsh truths which is very hard to swallow sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. How do you think the population has evolved for us? You know we, over that period of time, the time since COVID really we've seen the age demographic shift which I think is quite organic with the product we're offering. You know we're not necessarily fatty as a brand or a business and we're not in the next sexy thing. We've been here for 10 years. It's kind of like yep, self-spin there, cool. So the population they just seem to be. You know we've seen the numbers move from, you know, mid-late 20s through to now mid-late 30s, early 40s is probably our average age in our group fitness program. Do you think that's had an influence on the testing week and the eagerness to? I need to be better, I need to push harder. It's more just like I'm just at the gym because I know it's good for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it has a little bit. When you get to that, age numbers don't mean a thing, you can be like whatever. I lifted 70 kilos on my deadlift. That's cool. I'm just here to show up. I'm here to stay fit and healthy. It's what the doctor said. It's what I need to do, so sometimes the excitement can kind of blow out from that being. Do I really need this to improve, or am I just here to tick a box?
Speaker 2:Have I drunk my water. Today have I exercised. Move my body. It makes me feel good. Am I sleeping?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then I think the other factor is the cup is full most of the time with career and kids and family and that sort of thing. We've got how many new families have started in the last 12 months or how many more kids have been born into the gym? We claim that, but in the sense of we've probably had about 10 to 20 pregnancies within the last 12 months and babies, which is a pretty big deal considering most you know couples that one person comes here, both tend to come here, so you know mother and father and that's a significant period. That's kind of obviously impede your training.
Speaker 1:Those first three to six months are brutal and no, I don't want to test and check my data. I'm going to be atrocious. I feel like I haven't slept for six months. Um, how are we going to like, how have we changed the navigation of that from a calling it a pure testing week? And you know what are we doing now that that's different? To still try and get some form of number to track progress, because that's the most important part, right?
Speaker 2:well, um, with the progress as well. We're using an app called team builder at the moment to track your weights and when we get up to the heavy stuff at the end, it's better for us as practitioners to prescribe. Here's a ballpark figure of what you could hit for this. If you're feeling good today, go for it, if you're not feeling good, pull back a bit, and so getting that number gives us a much better idea of where we can push you, what can be be safe and what we can do.
Speaker 2:Moving forward, going back to the most recent peak month testing block, we sneakily hit it in the program. We were building up to a heavy 5RM during our main lifts and the first week. Find a ballpark figure. Put in your team builder. Next week, see what you did last week. If you felt like it was easy, we go up. We go up again and again, and again, and I think it takes the pressure off having a one and done approach saying, oh, this is our testing week, this is our back squat day, hit your best effort. Now you kind of had the four weeks to build up and say, all right, I know I did 85 last week. It felt pretty easy, I'll do 87. 87 was good 90,. Well, that was tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the following week I don't have to hit that again. And then, yeah, naturally we see that peak and it's etched into the training as opposed to, yeah, as you're saying, all this pressure all the time. Yeah, it's really interesting and it's interesting how that, you know, know, the approach was less dread. Um, you know, I think a lot of people feel that dread when you know I haven't had the ideal week prep or the sleep that I needed last night for the test of the 5rm bench press this morning or whatever it might be. So, yeah, being able to get multiple opportunities just to lift something heavy and see, oh, yep, I've actually improved great.
Speaker 1:Or, more importantly, and I think the big factor for that I'm using a lot, you know, language wise with people is it's not always about getting better, it's just trying to mitigate getting worse. So if I can stay the same for the next 10 to 20 years, I'm going to be in really good shape as a 40 year old. 50 year old. So you know, it's the same sort of lenses. It doesn't have to be better every single time. Life's going to happen and you've got more better priorities being your career, whatever sort of stage of life you're in. But it's just understanding where that is. Yeah. And then I think with that, how have you observed because you obviously run, you know over 50s program downstairs as well and we're talking some pretty healthy, fit, strong people in that age demographic how do they approach testing, performance, that sort of stuff and what's their attitude towards it in terms of if there is any difference?
Speaker 2:It's a bit of a mixed bag depending who you get, but it's the biggest barrier for them is making sure we know what we did last week and saying you can do this, your form was good, you felt good, you were definitely talking too much after, you didn't need to sit down straight away. Not that we push them that hard until needed, but it's kind of why are we doing this? I'm getting older. I'm not going to be getting better. I see no point in doing. That is the common thing in terms of a negative response, where some people are like I may be older now, I may be over 50, but that doesn't mean I'd have to stop at all. Yeah, I see Instagram grandmothers on there lifting up with their gym, bro sons.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:And some people are inspired by that which is actually good to see in the gym.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and it's probably the biggest trend. If anything that we're happy to attach ourselves to is to be able to go okay, like if you are north of the age of, you know, 45 and you're not confident, we're happy to give you that confidence and we'll take the time and expose you to the due diligence that requires you to get to a position where you suddenly are confident. And it doesn't take 20 years, it takes one year of adherence and you'll be far, far further ahead than where you can probably ever imagine. Yeah, it's really interesting and I think you know from a zoom out look at the industry perspective, numbers, data, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Where do you think it's going to creep its way in and influence, particularly group fitness programs? You know, we, we, we say garments and whoops, and here we are wearing all the fancy watches, particularly casio. Um, obviously there's a certain selection of population that are going to look at this data and be really interested in it and, you know, generate behavior change from it. And then there's everyone else that goes it's stupid, it's a waste of time, la-di-da-di-da, but I want to go to the, the, the, the, the um training studio down the road and train. What do you think is going to creep in what's relevant data-wise and then what you know might be left to the wayside from a generalized group fitness, health and fitness perspective, particularly off what we've seen.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of stuff about heart rate at the moment. You can't really deny that, and a lot of people don't get the connection from strength-based training to heart rate benefits as well, which is kind of, I think, probably an area of opportunity for us to really bridge that gap. You know you're stronger, you're not going to be as puff walking upstairs. You may think that's just cardio, but cardio is a mixture of strength and your pulmonary function, yeah, so I think potentially there's a way that that'll come in If there's some magical band, google Glass or something that's like oh hey, I noticed you're doing a chin-up. Let me automatically put that in for you. Is this correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, we had a little fun experiment running through ChatGPT the other day, putting in make me an action figure through chat gpt the other day, putting in um, make me an action figure and my action figure came up with uh, these google glasses that analyze everyone's biometrics in real time, oh wow yeah, so I could be looking at you. Heart rate 68 yep um. Lung function two liters per minute yeah yeah, blood pressure 82 that's a bit low. Yeah, mate 140 over 80. Yeah, Too high.
Speaker 1:Mate, we'll probably get there. You know we're getting closer and closer and, yeah, there's variable in the data of you know the wearables and that sort of thing. But you know, five years ago if someone said I was going to wear a whoop, they'd have told me my HIV and all these other details. It works out when I'm working out, works out when I'm coaching logs it in, and so yeah, I think the speed with which it's coming is going to be really interesting.
Speaker 2:I think to add to that as well, the ease of access to high-end sport-specific training methods. We're talking velocity-based trackers as well. That's something that's really going to be added in. Whether you know, your whip or your garment somehow puts an accelerometer on your wrist and you're doing your squat and you've got some form of feedback from it saying you've slowed down to X meters per second. That's enough fatigue for today. Well done, You've hit your benchmark.
Speaker 1:Next exercise yeah, interesting Sort of becomes a thread that you can never stop pulling once you start to theorize all this stuff, mate, let's jump across to your training. So you keep it pretty under wraps, even from our members, but on the wide abroad internet as well. But you are quite the endurance athlete, mate, and I think a lot of people are in awe of what you've actually put yourself through. So let's, for the listeners, unpack a couple of things here. What have you done, put yourself through? So let's, for the listeners, unpack a couple of things here. What have you done?
Speaker 2:How many triathlons, ironmans, endurance races, marathons, triathlons probably 10, 12, plus in terms of super sprint up to an Olympic standard. Half Ironmans, seven Full Ironmans, two pending, three at the end of the year and, uh, I got one ultra marathon under the belt yeah, how far was that ultra? Uh, 50, yeah, nice 50, 50 ish very definitely over 50 it was down the coast through the hills, yeah, through the mountains, and back um.
Speaker 1:Let's talk through that, so you know you did your acl, you did your rehab. It was down the coast, through the hills, through the mountains and back. Let's talk through that. So you know you did your ACL, you did your rehab. Where did your training go from there? Do you ever want to get back on the soccer field? What did that all look like? Did you ever try?
Speaker 2:Definitely did get back on the field. I just remember jumping back to the ACL six months post-op, going for the first round, biggest smile ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Looks like one of those crazy books. You see, running. Why are you smiling? Running's meant to be hard, but the freedom it gave me after me, lockdown for so long, no, I lived a fairly active life growing up as well, and when we'd go on holidays we'd see my grandparents up at Puna Bay, up near Maribor and small town. So you're allowed to ride your bike anywhere, as long as you're home before dark. Yeah, if the street lights are on, you better be home. Yeah, nice.
Speaker 2:And so I actually spent a lot of my younger life, particularly having two older sisters just riding around by myself. You know they kind of. They were in high school, they were reading books and, you know, being sassy and all that and I just wanted to get out and ride around, explore the town and ride through every street. Yeah, nice. Um, that continued with me. I came down for uni. I used to uh, ride most weekends.
Speaker 2:I actually had a secondary uni job and a friend from that job had another friend that was throwing out his bikes and this was a um trek, postal service road bike, something pretty valuable, but he was giving it away and it was definitely a couple sizes too small for me. Did I ride it. Yes, hell yeah. That was actually my first introduction to road biking and that kind of went from five kilometers to uni, 10 kilometers to union, back, 20 kilometers around uni up the river, 40 kilometer river loop most mornings to on the weekend, hitting out 100Ks going through Brookfield doing the fingers coming back. And I actually had a big biking month back in October, I think 21, and managed to clock over 1,000Ks.
Speaker 1:In the month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember the last four days was 100K's, 100 k's, 100 k's, 100 k's, back to back, just to get them. And then, from there, did the ACL? Still kept riding, was able to ride one of the best activities you can do. And then I was like I haven't done a triathlon. Two weeks later, done, did it Super sprint down at Rabie Bay, out at Cleveland, managed to get a podium second, which was very good intrinsic motivation for that, so signed up for another one. The year rolled around, so it was 2019. Did a few more? Did a few more? Built up to an Olympic distance in, I think it was May, up at Moreton Bay, somehow placed third in a decent field. Had one of my best runs off the bike a sub 45, 10k, which I'd been unheard of for me back at that moment, particularly off the bike, off the bike, yeah, off a strong bike too. Swim, let's not talk about that Choppy day. And then, from there, I was like you know what I'll find? Men, sunny Coast, september, the first one.
Speaker 2:So, September 21, 20. 21. 21. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a good race to learn about what you should be doing. Yeah, right, what you shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 1:What did you learn?
Speaker 2:Is it like a fueling thing? Is it? When do I go hard? What did you learn as a basic learnings? It was okay. Maybe I do need to swim a bit more than what I did. The bike I was pretty comfortable with, yeah, and the run was my longest run before. That was 11 K's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right now I need to do 21 off a 90k bike and a swim and fueling was not applicable at that time, okay, but yes, I did eat on the bike and I took my gels and tried to stay hydrated. But it's definitely something that I've definitely become a lot better at over the years. And experiencing it, yeah, yeah, just remember feeling very heavy legs and experienced hamstring cramps for the very first time going down the Malula Bar Hill. There near the finish line, we had to do two laps and both laps and hamstrings were just like stop, stop, don't go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice.
Speaker 2:And then from there kind of took a bit of an off season and then slowly got back into it. At the end of next year did Sunny Coast again, and then year three into triathlons was like you know what, let's pull the trigger, let's do a full. So signed up to cans and, uh, did that one and that was a another race full of learnings. Actually sorry to jump back, um, before doing the second half, ironman at sunny coast. A year later actually got in the gym. Yeah, got in the gym properly. Uh, I think it would have been minimum three times a week so this is back in as 22 21 22 yeah.
Speaker 1:Jim, you know within your all your other training that you're doing pre-half.
Speaker 2:Yeah it was local Jets go in, jump on the leg, press, leg curl, do some upper body stuff, some form of strength, with what I was learning at uni at the time because I was in the exercise science degree apply some of that knowledge, just get in there. Sure, it might have been a three by 10, but we evolved by that and the number one learning I got out of that which I prepared for was squats, squats, squats, squats. Yeah, the Malula by Hill on the bike course. I remember in the first year. It's a hill, it's challenging, but that second year it felt like I was flying up.
Speaker 1:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Which was a really good green flag, not red flag, green flag of like, hey, get stronger, ride better, yeah, which was really good. And then fast forward. A couple years later did the full at cans and cans.
Speaker 1:And um, what time of year is that?
Speaker 2:that was june, in june, okay, so it's not in summer thank god that's when, I think, we had the floods yeah as well. So training had a bit of a setback to the start of that. So some would say I wasn't prepared to do it. My coach at home said that. But you know, we got in, enjoyed the swim in the croc-infested waters up at Palm Cove, got out on the bike and had a bit of a nightmare mentally on that. Yes, I thought a brake was rubbing the whole time. So imagine going out in 180 Ks six plus hours of. Is my brake rubbing? Is my tire going to pop? Do I need to pull over? Who's going to help me? I can't help myself. But no, it all turned out fine and got back from the bike and it's like, oh, I could do a marathon now. Yeah, what was the furthest distance from?
Speaker 1:the bike and it's like, oh, I could do a marathon now. Yeah, what was the?
Speaker 2:furthest distance you'd run there, the half probably, wow.
Speaker 1:The half marathon.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's just two halves, you know, just do it again. Had a bit more information in the tank about that and I was a bit more mature as a triathlete. Walk through the aid stations, get food, take a drink. You know no need to rush it. You through the aid stations, get food, take a drink. You know no need to rush it. You have 40 Ks. This is a full lap course as well. So good luck being mentally strong, going round and round again. Every time you cross that finish line it's not quite your time to go, but it's actually quite an enjoyable event. Like you think, the marathon's going to be hard not when they have that atmosphere that they do.
Speaker 1:That really gets you through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome, have that atmosphere that they do. Okay, that really gets you through. Yeah, awesome. Um, one of my theories is that if there's enough noise there, you don't feel anything, just go. Yeah, um, so I did cans and then on and off doing stuff, just maintenance. Really a bit of a lifestyle, going for rides on the weekend, keeping up with the running, um, and then in may last year did my second Port Mac. Had some good learnings out of that, but very enjoyable.
Speaker 1:So what was your time in the Cairns Ironman? It was 14 hours yeah.
Speaker 2:And then Port Mac, port Mac, 12. I'm 12. What?
Speaker 1:do you think the big factor was yeah, you know obviously the experience on its own. What did you change to get that better result?
Speaker 2:Swim volume increased a lot. For Port Mac Swimming had improved a lot. I think it was about 10 or 15 minutes saved on that the bike much better as well. You could say a new bike was the solution to that, but there was actually a few hours put in on that. A bit of position set up and a solid fueling strategy that was. That was a big difference on the bike in the triathlons you got to have a small risk board, particularly in those long distance events. You just got to be taking that energy in, hopefully not having any gi issues. Um, and then by the time it got to the run it was oh, we're on here, I. I'm feeling pretty good. It started off feeling really good.
Speaker 1:What running distance had you put in between before that race, like training-wise?
Speaker 2:I did the Noosa half, so I'd been working with some friends to get some weekly volume in. And then before Port Mac again it kind of fell off a little bit and stuff went on. But you know I was consistently going over, almost getting the 30K mark. Yeah, right, Okay, so you'd done enough running. Yeah, I had a few marathons under the belt and I had a bit of trail running the year previous, so you know I had the distance in there, yeah, Even if it was on a hill it helped out yeah, and that was quite good again, the atmosphere when you run through the pockets where the people are.
Speaker 2:It's just amazing helps a lot um, and then from there that was into the major ones, ended up going to europe last year and did a destination event in germany and that's a hundred percent recommend for me. Okay, it was a half um wetsuit swim, which was nice, the cold german lake, yeah, worst swimmers I ever swum with. I don't know whether it was the language barrier and I just put myself back too far, but the amount of feet I had to dodge doing breaststroke in front of me was atrocious, I think.
Speaker 1:Interesting. We have the luxury of the oceans and the pools of Australia, though I guess it's a pretty strong swimming nation.
Speaker 2:It is New reflection Wasn't able to take my bike on the holiday, unfortunately, so I hired a bike over there, which is really good. They have a really good system for that. Just a standard little road bike, 90 Ks tucked in trying to go. So I played it pretty safe on that. I ate as much as I could, drank as much as I could. And then the big challenge of that race. Well, the goal was to PB the half and I'd done actually a Garmin running plan in the lead up to that. So I was running a good five to six times a week with zone twos tempos, hills, long runs mixed into that, and took the bike a little bit conservatively, took my time coming out of T2 and then set off on what would hopefully be a sub 145 half which would be the quickest I'd run in general, yeah, so, so yeah, and you managed to nail that.
Speaker 2:I did 16 seconds. Oh wow, coming around the track, we got to finish on a track, a running track, and it was a good feeling, coming around that bend knowing, yeah, I've got, I've definitely got this, I've done the mental math. There was some dark patches with about 5k to go. Yeah, when the um, the, the head noise just started getting so loud and you're like I'm definitely not striding out enough, I'm slowing down, will I still make it?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, awesome, let's, uh, let's talk about that head noise. Psychological element of the endurance stuff you know it almost seems like a drug, everybody that does one or two and starts to get a bit of momentum and actually gets better. They just can't help themselves but keep going and going and going and searching for more. What part of it do you think? Like you know there's a degree of suffering if you will through through the process of actually, you know, trying to achieve Ironman, half Ironman and then post there's that sort of sense of self-worth is probably what I'd put best Like how have you observed that? Is that something that really keeps you going back, more than the actual training of it in itself?
Speaker 2:training of it in itself I think a lot actually, particularly when you're out on the bike that long. But growing up and through the last couple of years I've started to challenge myself more of oh, I've ridden 100Ks, Can I ride 150? I remember the first time I went out to ride 150, I set up the route on my Garmin bike computer, I went out, I did it and I'm coming home and I'm like hang on, 150, that's 30 kilometers less than the Ironman distance. Why don't I just do that? So I made some alterations and I spent the next one and a half hours in a bit more pain going out to complete that. That's done. I'm not going. Can do that I should do an iron man. Yeah, ended up having a few small steps in between that. So I've done 180. Kennedy 200. Yeah, so packed up the bag one day at home on the bike, went down to the New South Wales border, came back yeah, 225 done, takes. I've done that. What else else can I do? Okay, oh, I'm still at uni at this point.
Speaker 2:So it's a random Wednesday in the middle of January. Hey, is anyone going to come up to Noosa for a beach day? No, okay, well, I'm riding up. So if there's only one way up, there's one way back. So I went up through the mountains up to Noosa. It's the mountains up to noosa, it's 190. Coming back home, total 370. That was, um, that's a big, that's a big down. That was a big day. I technically got paid for the ride.
Speaker 1:I found 20 on the ground what are you getting paid per hour there? Um, not much, yeah. Yeah, it's almost. It'd be illegal if the government found out, mate. Um, it's pretty interesting, like by the sounds of things, and it's funny because I've done this in my own way.
Speaker 1:Um, even when I'm strength training, you know, if I'm doing a high volume set, it's like it really starts to hurt at eight reps and say you got 10 prescribed so well, if you can do eight, you can do 10. You know, like, get to eight, you'll find 10. It's probably the same thing in an endurance sense. If you can do 150, you just find another 30. Like what? What is it? Percentage wise, it's nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1:So that perspective shifts changes and I think what's really funny for you know, the lesser that can't even fathom going for a 5K run or even just getting into the gym for a session and going. Oh, you know how do they do Ironmans? They don't roll out of bed the next day and say I'm going to do an Ironman and that's it. It's this sort of small little drip, drip, drip. You know, as you said, you got the bike, you rode 5Ks to uni and that's how it starts and it's probably it's for anyone that's either making that transition from a sporting lifestyle to oh, maybe I want to do some more endurance, or how do I stay fit and healthy? How do I stay motivated?
Speaker 1:It's like, don't worry about everest, don't worry about the summit. Just look at the first step. You know, look at base camp or go really small and just drip, drip, drip. Your perspective shifts and then all of a sudden it's not so scary doing a 21k run, because you can do it and you prove it to yourself, and so it sort of goes. Or you know, just going to the gym more than once a week and and so it goes. And it doesn't matter where you are in your perspective, it's just on your journey. It's just looking at the small little outcomes and just hitting those rather than trying to hit the summit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. The only way you make big ripples in a pond is if you make a small one first. Exactly, it just follows itself out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Beautiful All right mate, let Beautiful All right man, let's bring this home. So we've got the Running Mechanics Workshop coming up. This will be our third series of the Running Mechanics Workshop. It's on what date have we got May, the 17th, on the Saturday morning here in Brisbane, and then we're doing it again on the 24th on the Gold Coast. So for those that want tickets and are interested, just jump on any one of our socials or on our website and you can access that. Let's talk about some of the data stuff, particularly what we've used with the vault system and the runners and your running journey and anything you've seen anecdotally. What are your kind of big three tests that people that are doing endurance based running, be it 5ks or 55ks that they should be looking at regularly?
Speaker 2:Start off with, without any fancy data, stuff you can actually do at home. Jump on Google, get a metronome up 60 beats per minute. Single lead car phrase test until failure. Be the worst minute of your life. You're aiming to get at least 30 reps through that and it's with the metronome going boop, boop, boop, you're going to go up down, up down.
Speaker 1:So that's per beat. So up on one beat, down on the second beat.
Speaker 2:Aiming to get 30 reps. And that's on one leg, that's on one leg. There is a few more considerations for this as well. You can't roll out on your foot and you must hit the same height as well, so you can't just go half rep. I'm making it um, and to complement that as well, single leg hip thrust as well. Yeah, so that's lying in your back, sorry, yeah, yeah, uh, foot up on a box and back into metronome making sure you can do that. So you're back on the floor, heel on the box.
Speaker 1:Yep, hip up down with the metronome down.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, funny. Uh, little extra consideration for that one as well. Is your core strength? Yeah, are you?
Speaker 1:rotating is your leg just yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you rotating? Is your leg just pulling you across or are you holding form as?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, and staying square at the hips, okay, how many reps do you have to shoot for for that? It's 30 again. So 30 sort of hip thrusts, glute bridges, hammy bridges, and then 30 calf raises, and that's each leg. And that's if you're going to run 5Ks or 55Ks, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Baseline strength endurance. Do you have some capacity to be able to do this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah, and I think it's something. You know how many people recreationally go? I'm going to go run 2.5Ks. I'm going to go run 5, I'm going to run and then suddenly they get plantar fasciitis or they're shaking, it's the worst pain they've ever felt in their life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's pretty funny. Okay, so that's a really simple one that any listener can do at home at any time. Is your heel elevated on the calf raise or are you just flat, flat, Flat on the ground? Yeah, okay, yeah, cool. What else have we seen then?
Speaker 2:Vold's obviously got the force plates, yep plates. Simple things we can look at to start with is a jump, particularly on the landing phase. Are you using both legs and so that's both feet? Yeah, yeah, bilateral jump. If you've got the force plates, single leg jump, can you produce the same amount of force off both legs?
Speaker 2:okay, now we're trying to look at asymmetry here as well okay because if you have a very strong left leg and a sore right leg, or we know which leg it's gonna be more prone to injury. With that, folds also come out with a lot of work with Alex and Tara around running isometrics, okay. So, similar to the hip thrust, we have a set up, a barbell super heavy around your waist, you put your heel on the force plate and you press down into an immovable object. See how much force you can get. Again, compare both sides there's multiple standing ones that test the knee, test the calf as well. Can you produce the force? Because we all should know by now, with the amount of running that's been out in social media, that when running you don't just put down your body weight seven to eight times yeah, and that goes, but, you know, maybe through the knee and then even more through the achilles.
Speaker 1:Interesting, yeah, cool, um, it's really funny. I think a lot more people, particularly in Australia. I can't really speak to the rest of the world, but access to a force plate is not that far away. Just jump online, look it up. Somewhere within probably a 10K radius of where you live particularly if you live in a major city in Australia you're probably going to be able to find a clinic that has that and then it's just a matter of booking an appointment, just seeking that data. How often should someone look for this information? From the calf raises through to the jumping on the force plates and all that sort of stuff?
Speaker 2:How often do you change your goals? That's as soon as you decide on a goal. All right, 5k. Do I go to the gym now? Do I know if I can do the 30-car phrases? Do it, yeah, okay, that 5K was pretty good. I'm now going to do a 10K. One, how much have I improved? And two, do I still have it in me?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So every time you sort of hit your milestone, you'd say, particularly if you don't have instant access to it, go back, get reassessed.
Speaker 2:At least, particularly if your milestones keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Ideally at the start of the next one, if it's been a bit of a break, if you're rolling on car phrase at home, just check everything's all good. And then maybe after every third or so just check All right, am I noticing any niggles?
Speaker 1:That's probably the first line. Rule number one if you get any niggles, test interesting, find out what's going on, all right. So if someone's yeah, the body's speaking to you and that pain is giving you information that the system's not that happy, then go and uh, yeah, go and get a bit of a do, a bit of assessment, self-assessment. If you don't have the luxury of high quality biomechanics, sport data, um, but otherwise, go and book the appointment and get it done. Yeah, cool Imbalances show up. I can't quite get the calves past 12 reps on my right and I can get them at 32 on my left. What do I do?
Speaker 2:I guess that's a point of breaking it down Multifactorial. Again. Have you had calf surgery? That's the first thing. Do you physically have not enough muscle mass on your left and right sides? For example, relating back to myself, acl surgery had the hamstring graft. I have a lot less hamstring muscle on my right side than my left. We've got the Nord board here. We test that out and yeah, I remember one of the first tests I did on it 25 asymmetry. Okay, I think I've gotten it down to 10 at the moment, which is a good range to have in, but anything single leg on the right involving the hand string definitely feels a lot tougher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, that's interesting and a lot of people probably be in that position where they've had some sort of injury, trauma to whatever limb. Um, and you know, haven't actually quite considered the rehabilitative components that influence your running load and what load goes through what limb and then overload injuries. Is it because you're loading the limb too much or is it because your running plan's not good enough? So many factors to consider? It's also a testament to strength training. Just generalize, as you said, get squatting, do some single leg strength and get in the gym. You know what would your sort of recommendation, given a lot of your endurance exposure when you've done your strength stuff, how many times a week were you doing strength training, considering the amount of time you have to put into the bike, the swim, the run on your endurance sort of programs?
Speaker 2:it definitely goes through phases. So that's the one thing you have to make sure you're always going to prioritize a different aspect of those things. When you've got four different things to focus on, one's going to take that that lead a little bit more. If I'm planning for a race in 12 months time, I'm definitely focusing a bit more on strength now in the initial phase. Yep, so strength first, getting that up, okay, um, and then obviously, if the timeline's a lot closer and I'm just starting, well, maybe I don't have that much time for strength that is a luxury, it becomes a maintenance thing.
Speaker 2:So it's definitely if you can be in the gym all the time to start off with. So at the moment I'm trying to hit the gym three times while balancing several things, and that's going to then drop down to two and then potentially one and a half, being more of a mobility session. Slash catch up as we start to get into peak volume leading towards the end of the year. Yeah, Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's you know it can be that simple from an overall perspective. You know we've got access to information. As you said, sometimes too much noise is demotivating people. It's picking that phase. It's picking that little specific thing that you're working on and that goes to the endurance, aspiring, endurance person, or right through, the person that wants to get stronger or do a high rocks or anything in between. It's like what do you want to get good at? Don't worry about anything else. Getting you know a little bit worse, as that happens. You know, pick the main thing, focus on the main thing, maintain the others as best you can, and then you know you can sort of pull in any different lever when you need to. Um, brandon very enjoyable mate, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Um, and yeah, I've no doubt there'll be plenty of questions and topics for discussion from this, and so you know we might look into a little bit more data, specific stuff and lessons we've learned from each phase.
Speaker 1:We're currently in phase one of our next group fitness program and they're doing a heap of volume. No doubt everyone's loving all the bulgarian split squats and whatnot. So you know, I think we'll we'll do a breakdown of what we're seeing and you know movement trends, strength trends and and how people are adapting to this, lessons we've learned and and yeah, you know, so speak to this again. But, uh, mate, love your work all the time. It's um, it's so valuable. I know the members love it and there's so much that goes on behind the scenes with what you do as well and contribute so much value to that, to our program. So, you know, I know we're really lucky to have you, mate, and members are really lucky to have access to you. So keep up the good work. And, mate, when's the next big endurance race outside of this Ironman? What's further, what's harder than an Ironman?
Speaker 2:Who knows? Who knows, there's a Norseman out there somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, english Channel or something like that, and then run around England.
Speaker 2:Maybe it might be Iron man of Iron Mans. I'll let you look that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I know what that is, but I won't embarrass myself in case I get it wrong. Sweet Brandon, thanks for your time, mate Cheers. Thank you Ciao. Thanks for listening to today's episode. For more regular insights into SOF, be sure to check us out on Instagram or Facebook, or visit our website at scienceoffitnesscomau. Once again, we thank you for tuning in to the Science of Fitness podcast.