The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
Redefining Women's Health With Emily Adams & Dr Meg Doohan
Discover how the Science of Fitness Women's Health Program is transforming female wellness through education, community, and personalised approaches. What began as a focused intervention for pelvic health has blossomed into a comprehensive framework that addresses women's wellbeing across all life stages.
Dr. Meg Doohan and exercise physiologist Emily Adams share the powerful evolution of their program, which brings together women from ages 17 to 50+ in an environment where knowledge flows freely and barriers to discussing female health dissolve. The magic happens when generations connect – younger participants gain wisdom from those with lived experience, while older women express both frustration about what they weren't taught and gratitude for finally understanding their bodies better.
"I've been driving the lady bus for 54 years and I'd never heard the word luteal before," confessed one participant, highlighting the significant gaps in women's health education that have persisted across generations. This program bridges those gaps, creating profound moments of realisation that ripple beyond the participants to their wider communities.
The conversation explores how tracking cycles, symptoms, and energy levels allows women to develop personalised approaches to training rather than adhering to rigid, one-size-fits-all protocols. Participants learn to alternate between higher intensity training periods and recovery-focused weeks based on their individual needs, embracing down-regulation strategies that help manage stress and optimise performance.
Most importantly, the program encourages women to question their motivations, asking whether they would train the same way if their bodies never changed physically. This shift toward intuitive, responsive fitness represents the future of women's health – meeting your body where it is rather than forcing it to conform to external expectations.
Ready to transform your understanding of female health and fitness? Join the Women's Health Blueprint Workshop on May 31st at Science of Fitness HQ in West End, Brisbane, or secure your spot for the next Women's Health Program beginning June 16th.
Welcome to the Science of Fitness podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life, as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, fitness, performance, business and wellness. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast. Today we have both repeat guests. First repeat guests outside Joey, dr Doohan Meg welcome back.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I don't think I was a doctor the last time I was on this show.
Speaker 1:No, you weren't, you were. What are they called?
Speaker 2:A candidate.
Speaker 1:Candidate. And here you are now, yeah, candidated. And then exercise phys extraordinaire, emily Adams, welcome back. So today's episode we're going to dive into all things.
Speaker 1:Women's Health Program. We are on the precipice of the third iteration, correct, yeah, kicking off on the 16th of June, and so we want to sort of unpack a little bit of, I guess, the lessons and a little bit more information about the program and what we've learned. I think the maybe it's just a sort of confirmation bias of myself the lessons and a little bit more information about the program and what we've learned. I think the maybe it's just a sort of confirmation bias of myself the understanding momentum of women's health since we started this program just obviously for myself, but I think internally and amongst soft and even probably in our industry, has just really kicked off, um, in the exercise science sense. So you know, if we take a step back originally, you know, meg, you and I sat down with this program and this vision for it. What has changed since we sat and came up with the vision? What was that vision and where are we at now?
Speaker 2:I think when we first started chatting, we were really focused on pelvic health, and I think we talked a little bit about that in the last podcast about how we started focused on pelvic health, and I think we talked a little bit about that in the last podcast about how we started talking about pelvic health and then, you know, realised how widespread the issue was. So we, I guess, started to develop a program a little bit around, you know, pelvic health and how to ensure that we were intervening at an appropriate time and making sure that education was out there. From there, I think we've discovered that we can't just focus on pelvic health and that when we kind of try and pinpoint something, we're actually looking at the broader, a lot of broader aspects as well. So I think from there the women's program has developed into something a little bit, I guess, broader, a bit more foundational, so still maintaining that pelvic health as a really core principle of it, but including everything from down regulation, menstrual cycle, contraceptive fertility, postpartum menopause and all the rest in between.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's kind of where we've headed, where the program's gone since, yeah, since it sort of kicked off, and I remember it being purely motivated by a sort of pelvic pain, I guess. Yeah, you know experience that I had with a client where she was struggling with it, and then a couple of other clients, female clients, who were struggling with pelvic pain, particularly in and around exercise. It was like here's just a couple of other clients, female clients, who were struggling with pelvic pain, particularly in and around exercise. It was like here's just a couple of like down regulatory, hopefully, muscle relaxing strategies, deliberate awareness in and around pelvic health. And you know, then you and I got chatting and off this program went, and so we went okay, cool, like pelvic pain and pelvic health, let's go at it with that.
Speaker 1:And along came Miss Adams as well within that process and and we kicked this program off and the uptake internally from our members it was such a broad range of female clients um, you know and you probably speak to that a little bit more you're the one that really entrenched yourself within the members and, um, what do you think was the most sort of exciting point for members to get involved with? Because we had, I think the youngest person was what, 17? I think so, yeah, 18? And she came along with her mum Her mum, yeah, who was in her 50s, yeah, and we had such a broad spectrum. So you know, if you were to sort of speak about, yes, it was pelvic health motivated, but what really got them in and what did they get out?
Speaker 3:as we found that out, yeah, I think that the broad array of females allowed for quite an enriching conversation amongst all of the women. Like you had the say older population that could kind of speak from experience. You had the younger population that had quite a bit of you know, want to know more, and I think when you looked at the group and at the end of each session finishing with the Q&A, it kind of became a discussion amongst the cohort rather than just a clinician standing really consider at the core at the beginning. But a lot of people at the end of the program spoke to, that being one of the most important aspects of it from a point of view of, you know, you come in, there's these topics that no one's ever spoken about. We're in a room where it's just encouraged and people feel comfortable to speak about that and I think that it just allowed so much more to come out of the program than, just, say, the surface level.
Speaker 1:It was, you know, those motherly figures speaking to the younger people, the younger people then leaning on them, and then I think the program became a lot, yeah, more comprehensive because there were all of the different lenses of, say, lived experience and then also the clinical point of view yeah, and it did wonders and I can remember it for so many clients that were kind of in on the gym environment, not quite that keen on this whole group fitness cult-esque type feeling that group fitness programs generally can have, and it coincidentally turned into a pretty safe space for women to share everything from physical health concerns and questions right through to mental health and social wellness things and and off it went and I think you know we sort of found we stumbled upon that, like we just went in musculoskeletal, maybe there's some hormonal training, performance things that people might want to know and that we came, you know, going wow, geez, our eyes have been opened to, I guess, what the market needs.
Speaker 1:And if you were to sort of speak to that industry wisewise, you know there's a lot of group fitness gyms, particularly in Australia. We have a beautiful bias of this really high-quality exercise industry. But even you know, if you sort of go international, what are some things that we've learnt off this that you would recommend to any group fitness brand gym company that's got a community? What are some things that they should probably look at, particularly for the females, in their program in terms of facilitating a program that gets these kind of results in terms of a sense of connection, a sense of comfort and a sense of security. That then provides an opportunity for these people to sort of work on things that they're a bit concerned with when it comes to their health.
Speaker 3:I think it kind of goes beyond just looking at the physical.
Speaker 3:I think classes that we offer at soft, like the breathing class, pilates, almost that yin yang kind of training, um, you know people can come in here and they can do their program but outside of that, you know higher intensity, um, dense strength work, having that more lower intensity pilates, down regulation classes really brought the group together and I think that's something that we saw um through probably mostly the last iteration of the women's health program and it was kind of in those moments where you know you take that time to be to slow down and to focus on yourself.
Speaker 3:That's where people were drawn to each other and I think you know making sure that it's not there are opportunities outside of just the regular environment. You know we're lucky here to have Sam for a coffee and you know as that, yeah, avenue to connect, but I think it's you know as that avenue to connect but I think it's we've seen the value in hosting events. You know having things outside of the gym that really drew the group together and I think that that's such a valuable thing to you know, look at more, say that social, mental well-being rather than just focusing on okay. Well, what do they need for their training? Like, what more? What other systems do they have that we can foster? You know, quite simply through hosting different things or encouraging teams to come together.
Speaker 1:Yeah and you know from, I guess, a research and a behavioural science perspective, meg, like what are, I guess, things that you were like oh my gosh, this checks out in the literature and it sort of starts to stack up for people in the sense of what we saw from a group and community effect within the program.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one thing that Em and I probably didn't anticipate was how, I guess, well, how, we picked clinicians on the basis that you know they were female typically and that we, you know, we knew that they had something a bit niche to offer, in the sense that they were, you know, they were a specialist in their field or they were a professional, but they had, you know, a special kind of topic or niche related to women's health that we could talk about.
Speaker 2:So I think when we start, you know Emma and I started to talk about, you know, tracking and down, regulation and things like that, and then that just got kind of planted as a seed and then each week someone else came in and kind of said something a little bit similar and I think when that happened and people actually started to, you know, start tracking and looking at their symptoms and really starting to kind of take on board the things we were talking about, that's when, you know, they did kind of come out with, you know, a few really, I think, really important ideas about themselves, or some really kind of profound thoughts that you know maybe they hadn't given themselves the space or the time to do that before and so they were able to, I guess, look at themselves and look at their habits and their behaviours in a new way and a new way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it also encouraged the process of unlearning as well.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3:encourage the process of unlearning as well. Like what do you mean by that? I think there has been conventional concepts that have kind of created this blueprint, whether it's female specific or not. But I think you know you're told that you need to train x amount of times a week and you need to. You know it needs to be this intensity, it needs to then what you want to undulate and there's just so much noise around like what is the right thing to do, that people are quite regimented, that it then kind of opened up this space that it was like how does your body best?
Speaker 3:respond yeah, yeah it's not like a, it isn't this blueprint, it isn't this like gold standard. Do this and you'll be here. It's what is your body calling for, what does your body need? And then how can you foster that? And I think that was something that really came out of the program was people that, yeah, took a step back, like, firstly, acknowledge how their body feels, because I think that's something that's so hard if you've never done it before. You know you're so regimented. You run on a Monday, you do this on a Tuesday, and then all of a sudden, you're like, you know what?
Speaker 3:like, my body hates this and I think, when you're able to take that step back and kind of unlearn that there isn't, you know, a set rule book of how you should, you know, treat your body that then people kind of were able to create their own new path and unlearn those conventional habits and relearn what works for them.
Speaker 1:And it's really exciting because anyone that I've got on you know in the recent episodes from the business owners and and and the different profiles and personalities, if I ask about the future of health and fitness as an industry, everyone's saying personalization, personalization, and it's like okay, well, like, let's define that and I think you know you've just kind of summed it up there and this is only in the women's health space, but this goes across the spectrum and there's so many layers to unpacking it. First and foremost, it's actually trying to get informed in a structured, reasonable, um and applicable way, not in a I heard this one person say that I need to eat this at this certain point in my cycle, or I need to be training at this threshold and lifting at this weights, and then I either religiously apply that to myself, irrespective of how I'm feeling, or two, if I miss, I'm then a failure and I didn't do that one thing, and then I feel a sense of shame, then my adherence goes out the window and whatever else, all the other problems that come with that, um, and it's sort of like just strip it all back. What do you want, first and foremost, and then like, what do you need? How do you answer those two questions? And the practitioners and I think the group really brought those questions to light and a lot of people answered them and then, as a result, it was like, actually, what do I need? I want what you know. We've got um one of our clients doing an iron man, iron woman, if you can call it that, but she's probably approaching it in so much more of a um realistic, healthy, sustainable way rather than I can think of another one training for a marathon. She's doing the same thing and getting enough fuel, tailoring the program so that it's long enough in terms of prep, not feeling like a failure when, no, today's not the run that I had prescribed, my body's telling me this for whatever reason and then going from there.
Speaker 1:So it was really interesting to see that sort of process unravel for people and I think it's going to be the future of health and fitness males, females, elite, old, longevity, injury prevention, rehab, you name it and it's going to go into this space. So you know, if anything again in terms of encouraging the industry, it's like let's get people that are experts in their own little area and if they're decent enough in that own area, they're going to go. You need to consider these other. You know pieces of the puzzle that contribute to this area and I think that sort of then speaks to how we designed and structured the program and how it's evolved. So let's sort of run through. It's an eight-week program. The first iteration was 12. Why did we change that? The first iteration was 12.
Speaker 2:Why did we change that? It was a little bit long, I think 12 weeks kind of a bit of a long stretch for people to commit to every Monday night. So then you know, by the back end I think everyone was just a bit.
Speaker 1:Okay, we get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It became people have a life outside, outside, yes, and we obviously respect that. And I think it just became one of those things that life happened. They weren't able to make it. You know, the momentum then drops off and they miss a session, and then they're like oh you know, I then forgot about it and whatnot. And I think the eight week definitely worked a little bit easier from an adherence point of view yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I think we were able to kind of bang in like what we really wanted in those eight weeks in terms of topics. I think the 12 was an important start though.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Exactly because we needed to kind of understand where the interests lie and then we could go. Okay, how could we kind of refine? Was there one person that had a niche but also have a? Really you know comprehensive understanding of this topic that someone else presented on.
Speaker 2:Could we kind of merge that and bring it together, because I think, starting, I probably didn't recognize how much menopause was going to be a hit, and not even with our uh, older clients, but there were a lot of women our age and a little bit older just wanting to know more about it and, I think, facilitating those around them as well. There was a lot of talk around like, oh, my mum's this age or my, you know, I know people this age, so I want to know what's happening. So I think the 12 weeks was a good start, because I wouldn't have picked for the gym population that we have. I wouldn't have necessarily picked menopause as being a really important topic, but that came out as probably one of our most asked for topics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I guess it's probably going to involve be involved in every attendance. Attendees life at some point, so, and it's a significant time in life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that became a bit of a message at the end that you know, some people then went okay, well, I don't need to go to the postpartum one because I've already had kids. And then by the end I think the close-knit group kind of was like okay, well, if I could learn about postpartum, how could I then help my children or I've got a niece that's about to have a baby, like maybe I could teach her.
Speaker 3:And it became this quite empowering conversation of you know. We had one lady that bless her. She would take the slides to her work and on the Tuesday I think it was of her lunch break she'd bring all the girls together and she'd try and reteach what she'd learned and it was, like you know, it kind of spoke to. This is so much more than just the 25 women in the group.
Speaker 2:This is all of their women in their community, and then obviously it expands and I think that was on the back of her saying I was going to divorce my husband and then I realised I was going through menopause, so for her it was like I don't want anyone else to hit that stage and not really know what's happening.
Speaker 2:So if I can offer a little bit of a you know a look behind the curtains of what it looks like and maybe what some of the signs and symptoms are, maybe that will get the people around her to go and ask for help when that help is needed.
Speaker 1:It's needed absolutely Walk us through the content pillars, because you know, I'm aware that it's not every single time we run this program. It's the same and it ebbs and flows, both based on availability of the experts, but also, just, you know, we want to try something new, we want to get a different personality and we just we want to keep it evolving rather than just the sort of the same regimented thing, and particularly because I think the lens of this program and our understanding particularly of women's health, but health in general is just evolving so quickly and so being able to keep things that are relevant and not relevant involved is a really important part of the process. So you know what are the key pillars that really sort of make this program?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, as you said, we kind of we don't stick to the same eight weeks, and that is not our that's. Our intention is that we don't necessarily stick to the same eight weeks, and we think that's important because it's kind of like, oh, I've done the eight. It's not as if you've got through the eight weeks and then I never need to do that again. If we keep integrating some new topics or some advances on topics and then you get a little bit of a rehash in between, then it's a good thing if you've done the topic, if you've done the program, maybe twice. So we kind of start I guess we start with a bit of a reintroduction to menstrual cycles, hormones, contraception, that sort of thing, which you know, I think, coming from Emily and I sit in that space every day and sometimes I think, oh, people know this, but then we've got to, yeah, sit in that space every day and sometimes I think, oh, people know this, but then not at all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you get to, yeah, the eighth week mark. We had our last lady that wrapped it up and she was like you know, have you guys covered the menstrual cycle? And we were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there was still more light bulbs flicking. You know, people went, okay, yeah, I went through this, but now that I've got that baseline understanding the more comprehensive things I can now grapple with. So it was like I just don't think you could ever hear I'd say the same for myself.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Always picking up things that you didn't, you know, understand the first time, and it's funny for us.
Speaker 1:You know we're sitting here in the industry right at the cold face of this stuff and even then we're going, wow, if you come to the program and then you go back to the law firm that you're working at or you know you're in that sort of big marketing role or you're an athlete, back to your sport, you're not thinking and looking and seeing this stuff 24, seven, so constant. You know updates and understanding and learning is actually how you learn the content. It's not going to be a black and white. Okay, so we kick off with really the foundations that everyone's probably seen or heard at some point in their life, particularly during high school. It's nice for a rehash, a little rehash.
Speaker 3:Can I just go one step earlier?
Speaker 3:I think a really important part that's just going to add to this conversation is, prior to each of the women starting the program, I sit down with them and do a roadmap, and I think that allows us to zoom out and go what population are about to sit in for the next eight weeks, what do we need to hone in on?
Speaker 3:And that kind of allows us to guide the presenters as to what they're going to speak to. So, for example, you have people that come in and they've got let's go with an example that we haven't used yet in the program about sleep issues, and then you go okay, well, yes, we do speak to the nervous system, but are there, is there a professional that could kind of be a little bit more niche in that space? So doing that roadmap allows us to go where are all the women at, what is their current experience, and then what would they like to get out of the program, and that kind of guides us, not so much for that program that's about to begin, but potentially the next one future content, and so it goes yeah and then we go into week one.
Speaker 2:Sorry meg yeah, no, you're right. Um, so then after week one, typically we try and hit the pelvic floor pretty early, so we have some pelvic floor physios, yeah, we whack it um. They come in early and kind of open the floor about.
Speaker 1:This is what the pelvic floor is Pardon the pun again, meg, it's too confusing.
Speaker 2:Look at me, go Get it. Yeah, have a chat about the pelvic floor, what it is, what it does, why we need to be preventing any pelvic floor dysfunction and how to intervene early rather than, you know, waiting until it's too late.
Speaker 1:And it really breaks the ice. I think you know we use, you know Brooke and she's been on this episode on this podcast rather and she's just the best icebreaker of it all because, at the end of the day, pelvic floor muscles sit in and around your reproductive and digestive organs and it's like ooh, do we talk about?
Speaker 1:it. It's like hell, yeah, we do bang and you guys go into it and it's something you know. We're going to probably do a men's iteration maybe not an eight-week program, but something of this. And even just working at the rugby club with blokes where recurring hamstring issues because of their pelvic position, because of their lumbar spine organization, because it starts at the pelvic floor, it's like mate, I've got to just go there and as a practitioner now seeing you know you guys, women go through this program Once you get on top of that, it makes a big difference. And just being able to break that ice and then being able to work through it and actually you know, help people understand why it's so important and where it sort of goes from a movement and a pelvic health perspective.
Speaker 2:And so from there we have partnered with a few NGOs. So we have the Pelvic Pain Foundation and we have Quendo as well, who are coming in NGOs. So we have the Pelvic Pain Foundation and we have Quendo as well who are coming in, and Quendo are coming in for their first um, for their first talk this coming program. So pelvic pain do a really great job and they go around and talk to schools and community groups anyway. But they do a really great job about talking about um or giving a bit of an icebreaker to some of the stand or some of the common pelvic and gynecological conditions. They talk about pain management. They talk about, you know, different types of exercise or different types of medications, different ways to manage menstrual health, those sorts of things.
Speaker 2:And then Quendo go a little bit deeper into that endo-PCOS adenomyosis space and talk specifically around those gynecological conditions, um, which again is really great. We're hearing more and more about um, gyno conditions in the media but a lot of the time they're not really being portrayed or they're not being explained as to what they are yeah, and this helps people just sit there with just people that are well-informed experts in the space typically and ask the question no, you know, no shame with it and a pretty open floor as well as they go through it.
Speaker 1:And then we kind of move to a certain extent away from just the pelvic health and go into that sort of zoomed out lens and you know what are we sort of touching on in that space and I guess what have you seen? Participants jump in and go, wow, that was really awesome. And it's crazy how it connects the dot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. Well then, we kind of talk into diet a little bit. We also talk into mindfulness, stress responses, the down regulation which is always a really big hit with our population, and the psychologist that we have on board is really great at doing that. And then we last sorry, I'm just trying to remember last Exercise.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So our last week of the last program was with an exercise physiologist, slash physio, and she, I guess, really rounded the entire program. I think she gave a really nice rounding concept of pelvic health, exercise, the cycle, down-regulating stress responses, you know, and coming from someone who was a professional athlete at a particular point in her life is, I think, is a really nice way to kind of go. Yeah, I've also been here and this happens not just to general populations, but it is happening across athletic populations. So, yes, we are continually building our provider list, our expert list resource library yes.
Speaker 2:So we are constantly trying to get people involved, to help jump on the next program or, you know, see if they might have something that we can add to the following programs.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's so important and I think the best part about it is, you know, I even sit there and you know, look at the content and you know, speak to the professionals delivering it and it's like, oh, it's such a nice way to put that concept that I fully understand, but sometimes struggle to get through to my clients. I think, as a practitioner.
Speaker 3:That's one of the biggest things that I think the second time through that I took away from it is you know, it's one thing to learn information, but then it's another thing to be able to like execute it in a digestible way for people that have no idea of say the baseline concepts. So, yeah, execution is definitely key and I think that's something powerful that our presentation Presenters that our presentation present presenters.
Speaker 1:Um, staying on that point, you know, I think what's really important for participants is they actually are a part of our membership here and they can train because you know it goes beyond. Okay, cool, I've learned all this stuff. On monday night, see ya, and then won't talk to everybody for a week, and then maybe in a week's time I might, and then the program finishes and see you later. Um, you know what are sort of, I guess, some of the behavioral changes and then you've probably seen this the most being on the ground, um, with the members that have been part of the program, um, where they, you know, do the pro the the monday night evening. They get all this information, they learn stuff, they have great discussions, they open their eyes and they go wow, and then you know what's. Know what's the behavioural change, sort of, I guess, things that we're noticing off the back of that, and what are you doing to facilitate that for people as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think within the program, something that we do quite well is we're relevant within the presentations, adding a little bit of movement into the session.
Speaker 3:So whether that's teaching people how to contract or relax their pelvic floor, whether it's understanding how diaphragmatic breathing can then assist with that pelvic floor function, I mean all the way through to nervous system regulation, doing, you know, shaking your body and trying to up-regulate, and then teaching us how to then down-regulate if we're arriving at training in that stressed state.
Speaker 3:I think that what I've seen on the floor is one movement mechanics understanding, say, like rib cage positioning, breathing mechanics is then reflecting in the way that people are moving, which has been very fun to see. And you know people really concentrating, really setting themselves up, say prior to a squat, making sure that they've got that pelvic floor locked on, whether they've, you know, not in a compromised position, and I think it's a really sweet thing that I see on the floor because you know you've gone from people that are moving quite sloppy to then really honing in and wanting to do better within the gym space. Another thing I suppose I've seen is, within people's say, weekly split of programming, there's a few different things that people have incorporated, which seems to be working quite well, whether that's say in a week and a b week of their program, and then acknowledging where their body is and how they're feeling during that week so what does that mean?
Speaker 1:so an a week and a b week yep.
Speaker 3:So an a week, a week where it's a bit more high intensity, they might be going strength classes with a bit of conditioning and still integrating, say a bit of pil, and still integrating, say a bit of Pilates, but then going from, say, our HQ strength and conditioning classes to maybe the move class for that week, and then they're adding a bit more breathing and Pilates and core classes, so a sort of gentler week. Yeah, more of an intense week and then more of a lower intense week.
Speaker 1:And they're basing this on their cycle particularly, yeah, and energy levels that they'll typically feel correct.
Speaker 3:So I think people work well when you go, take the thought out of it, and so it's kind of you go, how do you feel right now, and then you've got a option, or you've got b option and what, what? Where can you meet your body, where you're at at this point, and I think that works quite well. And another option that I suggest which also works well is, say, that undulation of training, so making sure that you're not just slamming yourself and doing nothing to bring your body back. And I think the nervous system conversations within the program really allow people to understand that.
Speaker 3:What happens to the body when you are holding so much stress, and how can you then implement things that don't feel too regimented but that can then bring your body back down to that resting state, whether that's at the end of a con class. I mean, the other night I did this and it was really fun. I turned the lights out in HQ and I got everyone to jump on the wall and put their legs up, played some breathing music, and the response to that was really positive, because people are, you know, going home wired and then their sleep's affected, and so just little things where little groups are sitting down at the end of class and really allowing themselves to say you know, close that stress cycle and allow their body to return to a resting state and it allows the intensity of their training to be a lot better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that sort of yeah, behavioural awareness is probably the biggest thing. You know, why do you think it's so powerful for these participants and for anyone that's really considering their own training, to look at their body as a whole? And you're talking about stress, you're talking about psychological attitudes towards training, adherence and everything else, the actual training program, fueling sources before and after, like sort of covering the whole base, you know what are. If you were to think of some case studies or even some stories and examples where people have, you know, shifted their attitude towards it by being a part of this, and how much value have they gotten out of that perspective.
Speaker 3:One that comes to mind only because it's quite raw is, say, a client case study, somebody that's ramped up their endurance training and the stress that that's put on their body. I can kind of use it as a case study, but we could give an example that would be a bit more insightful, I suppose is one you've taken your training from x amount of days a week. You've then one increased the distance of your training. So, whether it's um, let's go the ironman example, you've gone from doing a bit of strength training, maybe a, whether it's let's go to the Ironman example, you've gone from doing a bit of strength training, maybe a run and a swim a week, to three runs, three swims, whatever it looks like.
Speaker 3:Your body is then going to respond to that stress. Making sure that your nutrition's pretty honed in is going to be a big one. And then, if you're sore all the time, if you're bloated all the time, things like that, if you're a lot more stressed and this is an example of somebody that I know that they've told me what then is at the root of it all? Like, okay, you've put on a little bit of weight, but what is the reason that you've put on weight? Have you actually put on fat mass, or is your body just holding that stress because you've increased the volume of your train?
Speaker 1:have you increased muscle because of the change in chain?
Speaker 3:exactly, so I think it's more of a rather than at the core. I've put on weight. What can I do to lose weight? It's like let's zoom out. What systems are at play here?
Speaker 1:and what am I asking of my body?
Speaker 3:what am I asking my body? And is it too much for it? Like, do I need to progress it a little bit more smoother? Have I gone zero to 100? And like?
Speaker 1:the body will give you the answers if you listen to it, and I think zooming out is the answer to understanding what's happening at the absolute core of it yeah, to give them that space and and and allow for the adaptation to occur, not just try and force something that actually ends up making you feeling worse and defeats the whole purpose, like why do you want to go and do something like a long endurance event? Well, it's a serious sense of accomplishment, but there's nothing worse than finishing and going. I finished and I've got stress, fractures in my shins and I can't get back to training normally and I feel rubbish for the next two years of my training. It's like, hmm, how about? I finished it and I feel amazing and now I'm going to go and focus on the next thing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that was a core message that came from Paula's conversation in the last session of our last intake was she kind of put it to the group as to why they train the way that they do and if their body was to not change, would they still train with as much intensity? And I think that was definitely a food for thought that a lot of people then spoke to me about. After was, what is your, your, what's the word intention behind your training, and is it serving your body Absolutely the best way it can?
Speaker 1:From your perspective, meg, standout moments or stories that really have sort of shown the impact that you know this connected, holistic for lack of a better word view can actually have for people in their training.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking back to a specific quote that someone said and it makes me laugh every time, but I think at a deeper level it makes me kind of think about how have we missed population, how have we missed generations before us? How have we gotten to this point and the generations before us haven't got the education that they're entitled to, that they should have, about their own health and well-being?
Speaker 2:um, and I think the quote is I've been driving the lady bus for 54 years and I'd never heard the word luteal before, and emily and I were both on the floor laughing, but I think it really kind of highlighted the fact that, yeah, we, we can go through life without having this knowledge and this awareness, and, you know, we can have kids and we can be all relatively healthy. Um, but I think for this person, they actually came back to the next program and they did the next program and it was just a big eye-opener as to you know what are all the? These are all the things that weren't spoken about when you, you know, when I was, when she was kind of outraged or you know, the conversations weren't even had. And I think that's I think the conversations being had is potentially the most important aspect. The changes in behavior can come later and they will come when people are ready for those changes to take place. And I think the one thing that we, emily and I, try and kind of ride home about is like we don't want you to get two weeks into this program and think, oh, my god, I have to change everything in my life. That is never, ever going to be the purpose of the program.
Speaker 2:The purpose of the program is to give you some skills and knowledge to go. What's next for me and where can I? You know, what do I need to do next to make my you know, to make myself feel the best version of myself that I can be, um, and that's why we, that's why we absolutely harp on about tracking, not just cycle tracking, because not everyone has a cycle, but tracking mood, tracking, symptoms, tracking, training, and, you know, not necessarily going into that much detail, but that it enables you to have a bit of data. If you get six months down the track and think, oh, I don't actually think something's quite right here, that allows you to look back at that data and really have a bit of a broader spectrum view, as you said, kind of zooming out and looking at the whole body, um, and then if menstrual cycles or, you know, hormones or any sort of female health aspect is at play, then we can kind of identify that.
Speaker 1:But if we don't have the data.
Speaker 3:Yeah, then you know you don't have anything to go forward with yeah, yeah, and you don't trust when you maybe aren't feeling as good as you normally would, or I also don't think that you're aware of some of the things I I know one of the girls' story that she spoke to was she gets a headache on the day that she ovulates and she didn't know that until she was a part of a study that required her to track her cycle and she's like I don't know once a month. But are you really going to think about that? Like it just happens willy-nilly.
Speaker 2:And then she was like no, I pinpointed that on the day of ovulation I get a headache. Each month it's like, and you know, every month I'm like, why have?
Speaker 1:I wanted to headbutt like four people today and then I'm like, oh, oh, here we are, here we are. That makes more sense, give it a day or two, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think yeah, that's um, that quote kind of made me and a few quotes from the older women about I wish I had this. I'm giving this to my daughters. Both Emily and I have had our mums jump on to a few of the menopause sessions, just because we think that they're both obviously not in state so they're kind of zooming in, but just to give them a bit of an idea as to you know what the conversation should kind of look like and maybe you know what we should be tracking and things like that. So, yeah, I think the conversations around what hasn't been taught and what education hasn't been there have been really eye-opening for me.
Speaker 1:I agree, yeah and exciting as well, and I guess it creates within that and then creates a sense of community and then, within the sense of community, creates behavioural change and like, oh, maybe I don't need to go to conditioning tonight and I will go to breathing, because they're going to breathing and we can kind of go do that together. Or I am feeling good and yeah, like I'm going to, you know, jump into that harder session that I thought I was incapable of and actually go and back myself to go and do something, because you know, off it goes and it's the biggest thing.
Speaker 2:I'm feeling absolutely shattered today.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to go and chill.
Speaker 2:Yeah or I'm going to go for a walk and go to breathing, or you know Something, gentle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Um from uh, you know, uh, I guess you you spoke about unlearning before there and um, with the current state of information, it's just everywhere and it's abundant and uh, quite daunting, confusing, um and and and I I guess, somewhat dissatisfying and demotivating for a lot of people. If you were to sort of pick on two or three things through this program that you've witnessed that are really valuable from an unlearning perspective for someone listening to this that may not have access to this program, what would you say? Some of the highlights are in that sense.
Speaker 3:I'll kind of merge the first one. I'll start that's the week of your period, you can't exercise at all, and then I'll kind of merge that with you can't race on race day if you have your period. I mean, we had the conversation just earlier today, but I think there's a lot of noise of and rigidity around.
Speaker 3:Okay, you hit that day of your bleed and no more strength work no more straight into yoga, like go for a swim, like take it easy, and it's like how does your body feel Like? For me, personally, I feel like a million bucks once my period starts and I'm ready to rock and roll. And so why would I? I don't. I just don't feel the need to then change the weights or make it easier. My body still performs, so it's again honing in on how you feel, as opposed to being told you feel how does your body respond?
Speaker 3:And I think there is way too much noise. I mean you zoom out to the literature and.
Speaker 2:I mean so far, all of the literature just says that your cycle doesn't affect the way that you perform in the gym and so.
Speaker 3:I think there will be.
Speaker 1:We're just beginning, but I think that's a big one. Is that you really?
Speaker 3:need to understand how your body moves, and that's the exact same as what I make. We've spoken to it. But in the roadmap I get all of the women to start from that day. If they haven't, but track for the eight weeks, that will give us two months of data so we can kind of start to pinpoint, but understand how their body moves, feels. Response Response to that change yeah, so then they can create their own blueprint. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Speaking of blueprints.
Speaker 3:Wait, very nice, my segue.
Speaker 1:Very nice. We're going to host this workshop on the 31st of this month, on this Saturday, and it's a workshop, you know, preemptive for the actual program itself, where we're going to, you know, open up on a Saturday morning and have you know an expert panel run. Why this workshop before this program? Let's touch on that and what, what is it.
Speaker 3:Let's go through it. Okay, I can do it. Okay, all right, so we are going to bring a group of women together. I think that's step one. I think coming together is something that's in our nature, can I?
Speaker 2:just jump in actually for this, for this little blueprint. We are inviting men.
Speaker 1:Oh cool, For this social event, so a group of people today. I'm invited back.
Speaker 3:Wow, yes, correct. But we are going to bring a group of people yeah, nice, thank you Together to come together, connect, be in a space together. We're going to start with a little bit of pelvic floor work and integrate the breath into it and allow people to kind of it will preface the program in that sense, in that it will give people a little bit of a baseline idea of, firstly, I think, what the pelvic floor is. I think it's just this group of muscles that people have never considered.
Speaker 1:I hope mine works.
Speaker 3:Exactly Every other muscle in the body I'll train but just because you can't see it, I'll just push it to the side From there. We're welcoming three, including my friend to the left.
Speaker 3:Dr Doolin, professionals, to kind of bring a different lens, to create a conversation around how our systems are connected, how we can't just, you know, focus on the pelvic health pelvic floor, sorry without integrating the nervous system or movement or nutrition. So we're going to have a holistic nutritionist come in who specializes in women's health. We're going to have a exercise scientist and physiotherapist come in and kind of integrate her knowledge around, say, exercise, but then the integration of the nervous system into that.
Speaker 3:And then Meg is going to speak to where the data's at, kind of bring the literature into it to make sure that it's, you know, evidence-based and up-to-date, and I think it's going to be a really enriching conversation of you might not have never considered, you know, the female body as a system of systems, but we can't really isolate and within the program, that's what we unpack.
Speaker 1:That's what we unpack yeah, and I think you know, for the male audience, that if you're a practitioner, this is worth learning and listening to and getting involved in. And then you know even those that aren't practitioners, that just have women in their life, that they care about understanding this and just you know, just having a little high level, oh wow, okay, that's pretty cool which it is. I think it's really cool which it is. I think it's really cool, it's really interesting. It's actually quite fascinating. You know understanding women's health a little bit more from a male's perspective and, more importantly, you're going to be just better equipped to navigate life with the women in your life. And then you know enriching relationships as a result, and that goes across the spectrum, from colleagues to you know family members and partners and everything in between. So you know family members and partners and everything in between. So you know, if you were to say it's for, how can people get involved?
Speaker 2:For the blueprint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the blueprint.
Speaker 2:The blueprint, I believe, has been made into an Eventbrite ticket which should be available on the Science Fitness website. Am I correct?
Speaker 1:Correct, yeah, we can also put in the show notes. I'm not a marketing guru, am I correct?
Speaker 2:Correct, yeah, we can also put in the show notes I'm not a marketing guru, so 31st of May is the Blueprint, the Women's Health Workshop.
Speaker 3:Like I said.
Speaker 2:So we're running 9 to 11 here at West End at HQ. So we're going to start with a bit of movement, with Mr McGuire across the table here and then, like I said, we're going to head into the panel, have a bit more of a discussion around, I guess, the key foundations of women's health and kind of bringing, as Em said, bringing together some of those aspects, some of those important concepts. So yeah, everyone is welcome for that oneales, females, spring girlfriends, mothers, aunts.
Speaker 1:Brothers, fathers and everything in between. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:I think I am going to drag my husband along.
Speaker 2:Um so yes, so please join us for that one. Like we said, a bit of a preface to the program. The program probably delves a little bit more intricately into specific topics. Yeah, a little bit more intricately into specific topics, yeah, but I guess trying to get people keen for another rendition of the program, like I said, workshop or program number three, so kind of getting people interested To understand, yeah, yeah, sort of open the can of worms, because that's kind of what it can be, which is pretty exciting.
Speaker 1:So if you were to sort of summarize Em like, how do you hope this program, not just the workshop but the Women's Health Program what do you hope the change that it generates in people is Like, what do you sort of hope for? And you've seen and moving forward where we want to take it. What's the main thing that you're hoping for?
Speaker 3:I think within my experience within myself and then also within the women that have done the program. I think you don't know what you don't know and I think education is at the core of it, and when you have that education you can then be empowered to make the change. So I hope that it provides women with the tools and resources to then say make that change. But they're not really going to know how or what they need to change until they have that information.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. If you wanted anyone listening to this today, regardless of what end of the spectrum they're on, from one takeaway you want them to have from today's conversation, Meg, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Stay off the socials, that's all.
Speaker 1:What a researcher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's always my takeaway for anyone. But I think and I think I said the same thing at the end of the last podcast but this is for everyone to train, as we've said time and time again, to train to meet your body where it's at, and programs are great and they wouldn't function without it. But if it's too rigid, that it doesn't allow you to kind of hone in on what your body really needs and wants, then it's probably not doing the job that we want it to do.
Speaker 1:I love it. Nice, solid way to finish. Well, there you have it, ladies and gents. We've got the Women's Health Blueprint Workshop on Saturday, the 31st of May, here in West End. So, if you are a local in Brisbane, by all means get online, get a ticket, get a spot, bring your friends, your family, bring anyone that you think will show interest in this and, more importantly, is going to get some value out of it. And then, yeah, for the ladies out there that are interested in our women's health program that kicks off on the 16th of June. So, again, reserve your spot. Those spaces are limited to 20, 25 participants and they fill up really quickly. So just keep your eye out for that through our social media and on our website and everything else. Ladies, absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1:Once again, thank you very much for your time and, more importantly, thank you very much for your time, um, and, more importantly, thank you very much for your energy and your effort and your passion in this space, because, uh, I know it's been invaluable to those that have been a part of the program and it doesn't often get said much like. We have all these other experts in there, but you guys are at the foundation, pulling me into meetings, holding me accountable to make sure that we execute things, to get a pretty special program um up and running that influences a lot of people's lives and hopefully inspires a lot of practitioners and professionals out there to do the same in their own community and space. So, um kudos to you guys and thanks again for your time. Thank you thanks for listening to today's episode. For more regular insights into soft, be sure to check us out on instagram or facebook or visit our website at scienceoffitnesscomau. Once again, we thank you for tuning in to the Science of Fitness podcast.