The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
The SOF Monthly: Rethinking Wellness With Directors Kieran & Joe
The wellness and longevity market has exploded, with luxury facilities charging upwards of $500 weekly for comprehensive health services. But beneath the polished veneer of infrared saunas and cold plunges lies a crucial question: are these investments worth it, or are we overlooking the fundamentals?
As facility owners who've witnessed the industry's evolution first-hand, we've observed a parallel development of high-quality practitioners working alongside aesthetically beautiful but sometimes substance-lacking wellness spaces. The Australian fitness landscape offers a unique perspective, as our strength and conditioning professionals typically develop comprehensive skill sets rather than hyper-specialisation, bringing elite athletic approaches to everyday people.
What truly drives results? Our conversation reveals that the foundations remain remarkably simple: sleep quality, consistent strength training (2-4 sessions weekly), cardiovascular work (2-4 sessions weekly), and nutritional basics. These pillars deliver far greater returns than peripheral interventions like recovery gadgets or trendy supplements. Surprisingly, we've found that today's clients often arrive well-informed, seeking validation and clarity rather than education.
The most powerful revelation? Social connection might be the secret ingredient to fitness adherence. We share stories of training groups that evolved into friendship circles, where people show up as much for each other as for the workout. This social dimension creates sustainable motivation that expensive memberships alone cannot provide. For busy professionals and parents, we offer practical frameworks to maintain fitness with minimal time investment, proving you don't need boutique studios to stay healthy during life's most demanding chapters.
Before splurging on that premium wellness membership, ask yourself: Have you mastered the basics? Are you consistently hitting your foundational targets? The peripheral elements can enhance results, but only when built upon solid foundations. The journey to health and longevity doesn't necessarily require a hefty price tag – just consistent application of proven principles and perhaps a good friend to share the journey.
Welcome to the Science of Fitness podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life, as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, fitness, performance, business and wellness. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Back to the next episode of the Science of Fitness podcast. I'm here with co-owner and co-director, joey Agresta, for another episode of the Soft Monthly talking industry trends and training. How are you, mate? I'm pretty good. How are you? Yeah, good, ready to go again, mate, nice.
Speaker 1:So you know, last episode and last time we did this, we were really sort of talking about high rocks and a couple of trends, particularly around women's health within the industry, and we're going to sort of go after. Um, you know the same thing, and I think the hottest topic that's probably been really trending for both of us in the last month and a lot of our clients is, um, this whole wellness, longevity, um, is it worth investing in question? Um, when it comes to, you know, these wellness spaces and spas and everything in between, mate. So you know, to sort of kick it off if you were to sort of zoom out, you know, three, four years ago, when we opened the Platinum facility, when it came to longevity and sort of building and having and operating an integrative sort of space. Where was your head at and how's that evolved in the last sort of two?
Speaker 2:years it's been a roller coaster in terms of how I've thought about the space. When we first opened west end in 2019, the whole intention was allied health integrative doctors, physios, nutritionists. You know the works and I remember a cairo down in sydney uh, I'm friends with him said to me mate, don't do it. You know no one's done it. No one's done it, no one's done it for a reason it doesn't work. And I thought, fuck you, I'm going to do it, purely because he said you can't do it. So you know, we went down the trend and rabbit hole and essentially what I thought the space would be is this nice collective of really well-intended practitioners who can provide services under one roof to get the client the ultimate result, which is, you know, effectively, great training, longevity, doing it for a long period of time.
Speaker 2:The influence of the last two or three years has been the aesthetic of the facility and not necessarily ours, but other pop-up facilities along the way, making the aesthetic look really nice. But I don't think the practitioner quality has always matched the aesthetic. So I feel like the last two or three years in general has been a fight for facilities like ours, who are trying to get the best practitioners and then a bunch of clubs that are wellness facilities with you know nice bougie teas and stuff like that, and they're kind of working, in my opinion, in parallel right now In terms of like growth and trajectory, but no one's taken the bull by the horns and have done it under one roof, and that's what I feel like we're going over. The next three to five years is one place such as a total fusion to go. We have the best trainers or practitioners and the best facilities. So that's sort of my summary of the last three or four years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's been really interesting watching that and sort of working and trying to navigate it, because, yeah, the industry didn't exist, as you said, in this capacity at all For I think quite a while there were a few clinics that had clinical exercise physiology and that's probably as far as they went in terms of having an integrative exercise solution to physio clinic, medical clinic and so forth, and this is probably across the globe. You know, australia really is at the forefront of this stuff and the us has a big part of it, but it's just not quite, as I suppose, well polished from an exercise science industry and I think that's a wash up of the sport and performance world in this country. So, you know, stick with me if you can hang on with this, particularly in Australia, where one have the luxury of reverse world so you don't have problems to solve, like you know, a lot of the other nations in the world do so. Therefore, then we can dial in, you know, a lot of the talent in the country to, you know, going into the physio and the medical and the health and the preventative sort of spectrum, but then also into the high performance sport world, and a lot of people do go down that that route and work in the physio and strength and conditioning spaces and so, second to that, the sports played here are really hard, they're really quite complicated and they're not nearly as niche. As you know, we had coach Darius Reese on the podcast talking about NFL and how dialed in each role of each person within a college football program is.
Speaker 1:And you know the S&C coach does S&C and they might even just do C or just S. You know just the strength and they don't even put the cones out. They have someone to do the cones for them, kind of thing. Versus, in Australia, an S&C coach is high performance data, it's strength programming, it's injury rehab, it's metabolic conditioning, it's, you know, negotiating psychological interventions, it's considering diet and supplementation, it's everything. And you have to learn and apply that Not only to a sport that is requiring an athlete to be really strong. The athlete has to be really powerful, has to be really aerobically fit, anaerobically, have an awesome capacity. And you know you look at rugby union, rugby league, afl football those programs demand a lot of the athletes and therefore they're going to demand a lot of the practitioners.
Speaker 1:And so, as a result, doing a strength and conditioning course here through the ASCA in any way, doing an undergraduate in exercise science or exercise phys or sport science. You're versed in all these worlds and as a result and here we are I did high performance in sport, I worked in that world, but I wanted to bring that to the masses and bring that lens of biomechanics, physiology and everything else. And then you know it's probably the same for you. You've done the strength and conditioning stuff, worked with the athletes, but being able to bring that to a 45 year old mom or dad or a professional that wants to be healthy, strong and fit but doesn't want to deal with the fluff of some gray program that hasn't got really clear outcomes and not much evidence to it.
Speaker 1:Here we are and so, as a a result, really high quality practitioners have slowly dripped into the general public, um, in the australian market, um.
Speaker 1:And so, as you said, we've sort of got this realm that has uh, he has a lot of money going down into a sexy facility with everything you know is considered from a feel standpoint, um, and then you've got these sort of practitioners really coming through that are really good quality.
Speaker 1:We've had interns come through that now are working in high-performance AFL programs as well as Gen Pop gyms, which is a pretty big deal and it says a lot for the Gen Pop gyms and where they're heading. And so now it's sort of like, okay, as you're saying, we're at this crossroads and who's coming out on top? Well, like numerically, sure, I think the bigger organizations can generate bigger marketing budgets and handle more numbers, but I think sustainability-wise, the most important factor is gonna be a good quality practitioner getting good quality results, because at the end of the day, that's what the consumer wants. And so, if you sort of think about the people you've seen, both fellow practitioners in the industry and what the market's doing, and then also patients and clients and members that you're working with day in, day out what do you think the main want is now that everyone knows there's all these high quality, high end facilities, and I think I might need that. But what do I get out of going and joining that or doing that versus? You know, when they come to us, what do?
Speaker 2:they want. It's funny you say that I literally had this conversation at eight o'clock this morning with someone in the industry as well. They're not a trainer, but they're in the allied health space and we speak about this stuff all the time, especially the younger generation. So let's say, you know, 30 or younger, I mean everyone's readily available to information, but especially readily available information, whether it be, you know, instagram information or genuine information, it doesn't matter, you can quickly access it. So if someone wants to find out what a good strength and conditioning program is, how to periodize your program, how to go from five reps to three reps and how to do it safely it takes six seconds to figure that out. You can easily do that.
Speaker 2:So what are they coming to us for? They want the surety, they want clarity and they want the validity to say authority. They want clarity and they want the validity to say, yep, that's good. So it's a trust thing. Largely, I find that my role, especially over the last three or six months, has been reassuring or removing things from a program to say, yeah, that's good, let's go do it, as opposed to building out this grand spanking program from scratch yeah. So in a nutshell, it's almost this consultancy role where people come in and say, hey, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. Can you say, yep, that's good. And if not, what tweaks are we making Cause I'm going to go do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's it's. It's super interesting. I mean just some of the data on it. And this is me, you know, asking for quick information. But you know you think about the economic environment and cost of living and everything else.
Speaker 1:Gen Z spend the most money on health and fitness of any generation and that's averaging in Australia $117 a month on fitness, which is pretty wild considering gym memberships, wearables and all that sort of thing. Money drip, drip, drip through to health from the youngest generation and we're seeing that trend shift, I think particularly internally, because we have the capacity community to service older populations. That's people you know in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s even. But yeah, if you think you know, if you were to draw a circle around, you know Gen Z and people in their early 20s and then you know people in their early 70s and then you know people in their early 70s. What percentage of those populations are investing a lot of money in their preventative health, fitness, let's say you know their training, their nutrition supplementation, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Gen z are winning, which is really interesting. So they're well informed, they're eager and keen to invest in that and, as you said, they're coming to the practitioner for validation of their information. What do you think you're sort of debunking for them a lot Because they've got access to so much information. What are you telling them? Been that, don't worry about it. Focus on X, y and Z.
Speaker 2:From a macro perspective. I always come back to what are your pillars Sleep, nutrition, weight training, cardiovascular training, some metrics that are important to those things resting, heart rate, as an example so I always go back to them and then I always look at what the weekly structure is. So, as an example, most people who come and see me already exercise or did exercise and are returning to exercise. They've got great information and they just need the tick of approval. And I'm saying this three that you're doing here, change this to two and then move that one later in the week and let's start there. Very simple, but it's that high level overview of what needs to be done and digging down into the detail from this. That's the large majority of what I see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what are you telling them not to worry about?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm telling them not to worry about things that don't contribute towards sleeping seven to nine hours, weight training three-ish times a week, doing cardiovascular exercise to you know, 120 to 180 minutes give or take a week, and making sure you're you know, not completely, you know sedentary, you're moving around at least every day. Let's nail that first. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's funny because you know, right, yesterday's newsletter sort of piece was and we discussed this and it's sort of what motivated this episode was just about what are the peripheral things and then what are the big rocks? And you know, tick your big rocks, but it's not to debunk all these peripheral things. That could be your magnesium supplement and it could be your infrared sauna that you love to do once a week, or your ice bath every morning. If that peripheral mechanism drives the adherence to the pillars you're saying the big rocks, the regular strength training, the cardiovascular stimulus, twice a week minimum, and then just you know, more incidental movement in general and adherence to those systems then do those pillars by all means. But if you're replacing one you know if you're going oh, I'm not going to train today or I'm missing my training regularly because I'm having big weekends or whatever but I'm going to take my magnesium supplements are really important. It's like been that mate, like sort out the big rock, um, and it's the same.
Speaker 1:Do I toss up the, the cardiovascular session versus the infrared sauna? I've got one opportunity to one or the other. What are you? What are you picking Cardio?
Speaker 2:every single time.
Speaker 1:And you got the metabolic stress, at least on a cardiovascular level in a sauna might replicate a cardio session, but you're not getting the musculoskeletal stimulus, you're not getting the gas exchange stimulus, and so you know it's sort of something we see a lot. It's like. Before you do that, have you ticked these big boxes? Do you need one of those mechanisms to support that, which is really important? So you know, one of those mechanisms to support that, um, which is really important.
Speaker 1:So you know, one of the big questions I want to unpack is particularly in these higher end clubs and facilities, wellness brands that are now really popping up globally, particularly in the sort of western world, and and they're charging upwards of 500 bucks a week for some people, if not more. Um, the big question we get asked is is it worth it? Do I go get this whole suite of tests done all the time from you know, full body MRIs and bloods and everything else, and you know, like, is it worth 250 bucks? Can you justify that as an exercise professional? So you know I'll have my go at answering that in a second, but from your perspective, what do you sort of say back to that question?
Speaker 2:I think of it in two fundamental tiers or pillars. So the first one I want to touch on is the metrics. Am I getting stronger? Am I getting fitter? Is my sleep improving? Is my lean muscle mass improving? Are the markers that are important to my goals and plans improving, and if so, it's worth every dollar? Yeah, if that's the thing that you're striving for.
Speaker 1:And so a lot of people probably haven't even considered those numbers and those markers, and a part of these programs is they're giving that foundational data representation. So that's really important, you think.
Speaker 2:Depending on the goal and how important it is to the person. So if someone comes in and says I weigh 65 kilos, I'm a male, I I really struggle with my image. I want to put on some muscle mass and I'd like to spend the next two years bulking up to put on some muscle mass. So I feel confident. And over the next two years they have regular intervals where they check, they put on the muscle mass, they, they do the weight training and they see themselves go from 65 to 80 kilos with eight kilos of lean muscle mass. 10 kilos of lean muscle mass.
Speaker 2:What's $300 a week for a new set of, for a new life where you're confident in yourself, you're walking around happy, you know it might not solve everything, but you know it's trending upwards. How can you put a figure on that? So that's my metric one. And then the other side, which is no more psychological do you feel fulfilled and are you happy? And so if those, both those boxes are ticked, or even one is ticked, then it just becomes an equation of you know, do I have the funds to pay for this? And, like you mentioned yesterday, do you have the time pay for this? And, like you mentioned yesterday. Do you have the time?
Speaker 1:which is the most important factor that I think a lot of people don't consider. They go, oh training, testing and potential great results. What's the most important thing? You can get tested all you want, but if you don't, you know, run the experiment and do the work that generates the change. Doesn't matter what you're paying per week and what the test is. You've got to do the behavioral element. What are the big factors that generate behavior change that you've seen?
Speaker 2:accountability is the biggest, in my opinion. Um, that's a short-term thing. Seeing a result gives you that another little carrot for a while and then from there, after a while, it just becomes compounding. You know, adherence and and and, then a self-identity almost yeah exactly, exactly, yeah, it's really funny.
Speaker 1:And the accountability thing yeah, okay, book a session, have an appointment, work with a practitioner um, it's really important. But there's also a social pressure thing, which I think is probably the biggest thing we've stumbled on, um, and is where I see these really big brands like they're going to struggle or they need to solve that problem. So you know, if you are a big brand in the health and fitness space looking to do this and offer this as a product, you still need to solve for this. You need to have a for lack of a better term, I know the industry always says it a community, because when there is a group of people, you've got your, you put it on your socials, your group of mates, so you've gone. This is an accountability whatsapp group. Send you dinner, what did you? Did you train?
Speaker 1:Like, like, that's really special and you know males work in certain ways in that sense, and then females in different ways. We've seen it through the women's health program. There's a group of women now that the youngest is in her early twenties and the oldest is in late fifties, maybe they go for dinner every quarter. They have coffees on Sundays. They really are a good group of friends now, but they don't miss training. They're here Monday, wednesday, friday. They're not coming Tuesday mornings. Some of them are doing cardio extras at the end. They're doing little bone density things as well. Like it's super special when you have a group of people adhering to an outcome, a program, whatever, and that drives accountability way more than maybe just the trainer. You know, maybe the $250, $500 a week membership that is going at the head. I'm spending a lot of money. I better do. This thing might help, but if you don't enjoy the environment, you're probably not going to turn up as much, and the environment's really determined by the people involved in the program.
Speaker 2:And that's really interesting thought I spoke about this on the weekend, so we were running on Saturday. So a few boys surprised me. We were down in Yamba, I went for a run and while we were running they said all right, joe, you just turned 30. Give me 30 lessons for 30. And I was like, oh fuck mate, I can't think of 30 lessons while I'm running, but I'll give you a few as they come out. And I think the third one was essentially how important friendship is, and I'm so lucky that every single friend that I see I will exercise with in some way shape or form my closest friends I either box with, do jiu-jitsu with, I do weights with, I do a group class with, or I played surfing, playing touch footy, something, something, something active I, I literally do not hang out with a single bloke that doesn't exercise, and you can quote like not a single bloke.
Speaker 2:So they have to exercise with me in some way, shape or form, and that's just the way the cookie crumbled, yeah. So if you ask me in a reverse way, joe, would you pay 250 to $500 a week to have a social group like you do? That is going to be with you for the rest of your life. No brainer, absolute no brainer. And I know the cost of admission is not necessarily pay 250 and gain friends. But when you ask the question in a reverse way, I would pay that every, every day of the week, and it's you know. I don't want to hang around people who smoke and vape and do those things. I want to hang around people that I like hanging out with, who just happen to exercise, that I like hanging out with, who just happen to exercise, yeah. So I think a really important part of this question which might go missing is what's your network? Who do you hang around with? And we don't mean network in terms of you know business yeah.
Speaker 2:There's that, of course there's that and you meet people. But you know, fundamentally, when I looked at it and I got asked that question, every single friend of mine call it the top 20, I exercise with.
Speaker 1:You're doing something with. Yeah, you might see other people in a proximity sense, but not necessarily the ones you're seeking out and mate. It's sort of become the new norm, like we had, you know, the ladies from SoSo's on the podcast last week and they've grown their run club because it was two friends that ran together, both SoFs ran together and then a few friends wanted to be a part of that. 12 people, 500-odd people at their biggest event, 19,000 followers on Instagram. It's really interesting. Again, zooming out, going macro level, what behaviours do I want? What behaviors do I know? If I go for that morning run at 6 am on Saturday, the rest of the day is awesome. If I go and do that group fitness class downstairs, whatever, the rest of that day is awesome. And that's my favorite two hours of the week. What People are like? What Do you want to train? And I say, yeah, I do, and it's not for the training you feel great after, sure, but the majority of it is a product of. It is the social interaction and the connection with the people, Because then the whole day has good momentum. You choose better food, la-di-da-di-da, and then that comes back to those pillars. Right? You're waking up at 5.30 on Saturday after a big week to get to a class at 6am. You're probably going to get a bit pretty early Saturday night and all those Saturday night temptations as a young person. They're just going to go to the bin because you don't, you just knackered and you've had your fix. And there's that sort of positive momentum again from a lifestyle perspective, which is you know the big, the big influencer, and it really you know the big influencer and it really, you know.
Speaker 1:Coming back to that question, is it worth it from a financial investment? I think the big one that I like to look at for people is you know, are you spending too much time on peripheral stuff? And is that peripheral stuff? What's driving that cost up? You know, if you're spending 250, 300, 400 bucks a week and you're going for the ice bath in the sauna but not really doing the training and the hard stuff, then bin it, you know.
Speaker 1:And if you're not sure where to start, you think, oh, I'll just go all into that, maybe you don't need to, maybe you need to get some good habits and just, you know, grind through a bit of white rice and some boring stuff so that, yes, I can then pull that lever to add the recovery element on the back end of that workout or whatever it might be. Um, how often are you sort of navigating that with people? And, and over the range of demographics, you see the young people in group fitness, then the sort of hard-working, really busy 5am-er that's got a couple of kids, full-time job and still trying to do the right thing health-wise. What are you saying Don't do that, do that. You need to add this in to each person as they go. And then you know the older group that are in here more regularly. So let's start with the group fitness guys.
Speaker 2:For anyone who knows me half well, you'll know that I'm a big, big frequency person. I always go to sessions per week or minutes per week, and I think I've thought about this a lot. The reason I default to that is I want people to do weights two to four times a week and do cardio two to four times a week. So however I articulate, that just comes out.
Speaker 1:And it's going to be pretty standard across all those populations.
Speaker 2:Pretty standard, depending on goals and whatnot, but everyone should do weights two to four times a week and everyone should do cardio two to four times a week. Four sessions a week total is achievable for a lot of people. Whether it's 20 minutes, 40 minutes, you know, it depends, but that's what I think personally. If someone asks me so, whenever a group fitness person comes in and they talk about the peripheral things, such as sauna, ice bath, those things I always say tell me what you've done for the last 30 days, write it out in front of me. And then the answer is clear if the cardio hasn't been done, what? What aerobic work are you doing? What cardiovascular work are you doing? How are you building up your stress tolerance If you haven't done your weights?
Speaker 2:You know where's the ticking of the box that gives you that self-satisfaction? Where's the increased muscle mass that's going to make you feel a little bit fitter? Where's the accountability to yourself to adhere to the task that you said you were going to do in the first place? Let's, let's, nail those first. And for me because I rely on people um, I don't want to hold people's hands. I hate holding people's hands. So if they can understand that, okay, I need to do four a week, and once I can tick off four a week, then I've achieved level one. That is the greatest relief for me, because it means I don't have to hold their hand anymore. It's ingrained into them that four is the standard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're ticking those boxes. So then you go to that sort of let's jump to the other end of the spectrum there. Oh, you know I'm semi-retired, um, I've got time. The motivation's quite hard. What are we doing? In that sense, you know again, like how's that conversation going and how they're navigating that and what works for the person that's struggling to get going on that end of the spectrum?
Speaker 2:This is a soft sell. It might be a hard sell, but PT is the greatest sell. And what is PT, or what is training? It's accountability to a session. One of my longest clients, who's been with me since 2013, 2013, 2014, tells me every single week as long as I've got one session booked in with you, I will show up and then that sets the precedent for the rest of the week. So that's an easy fix for a lot of people have the one session booked and build out the week from there for the person struggling to get going. I always think of it as a pair. How can I pair this person with the right person and make them become friendly? Build the connection, build the social interaction, build those things. Drive the enjoyment to the session, and then it filters. Off the back of that, it is harder to get those people started. So less is more in terms of intensity. So let's make, in my opinion, let's make the volume high three sessions a week, four sessions a week, but not as hard per session.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So you leave feeling satisfied with yourself, but not sore enough that you're crippled for the rest of the week. And that's where I think most people go wrong they flog the fuck out of someone and they're sore for two weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and particularly in that age, demographic and all they do really good six weeks, but then their knee blows up and don't need a surgery, like, and then they're back at square one. They're going, I'll try to get fitter and healthier, and I ended up hurting myself.
Speaker 2:Well, someone I was speaking to. I had a consult last night with a lady from the Netherlands who's a is a client of mine and very aware, very. It was a client of mine and, um, very aware, very good understanding of her body, and she'd just finished this really intense work period where it was, you know, five ish months of hard, hard work and now goes. I've got the whole world, I've got all the time in the world. I want to learn to run, I want to keep crushing my chin ups, I want to back squat, I want to deadlift, I want to do all these things. You, you know I'm getting all giddy and excited about this potential and then I said to her look, these are all really good things. You're gonna have to pick two. I can help you get stronger and everything, but I need you to understand that that'll work for about six weeks and then something will go wrong because you're trying to increase, increase your squat, your deadlift, your bench, your chin ups, you're running and everything else. And easy four weeks, easy six weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sustainability there falls apart. So go basic, set you know, hit one, tick the box, make one main thing the main thing and stay on it. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense and we'll put a pin in that because it's also there's a measurement metric which I want to talk to, which goes a long way for, I think, that person in that demographic, and maybe not just the older group, but anyone that's never done anything, but, yeah, let's talk to the sort of really busy somewhere in his 30s, in her 30s, through to, you know, early 50s, teenage kids, maybe young kids, maybe newborn, or you know a couple of kids under five years old and still trying to really rinse it in the career, probably the hardest point of life. Some of the evidence and data points to that. You know what do they have to do and how are you helping them navigate, taking care of themselves in that realm as well, because they're not going to spend $500 a week on a membership.
Speaker 2:Kids new mortgage, second mortgage, something like that it's brutal. It is, yeah. The thing that I fall back to first is what are your strength pillars from a gym perspective?
Speaker 1:So like what are your strength training session pillars?
Speaker 2:Correct. Okay. So let's say you can allocate two to three sessions a week in the gym. I want them to do two major compounds in the gym per session. So let's say, for example, on a Monday they might choose a dumbbell bench and a reverse lunge. Get them strong, maybe a little bit of accessory stuff relative to them, but get them strong. Wednesday could be overhead press chin up. Wednesday could be overhead press chin up. Friday could be RDL pushup as an example. Let's focus on getting those two really strong, because I'm not trying to focus on bench squat deadlift, because I'm not a power lifter. Yeah, let's just focus on some big, you know fundamental things.
Speaker 1:And your bandwidth to handle levels of stress isn't that high like physical stress.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So something that I really consider here is, instead of getting their bench squat deadlift super high, let's get their pushups from 10 to 12, or from 10 to 15 or 10 to 20. Let's get their lunge, you know, with tens, 15s, 20s in their hand, rather than you know, 140, all time powerlifting back squat. And if we can do that for three sessions a week, even two sessions a week for, you know, a year, you're going to get really strong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're not going to fall off health and strength-wise from where you might've been before this era. You can kind of it's quite sustainable, correct?
Speaker 2:You add in some really short micro-dosing of hit work at the end of the session. Five, 10 minutes, whether it be five minutes straight on a bike or whether it be 20 on 40 off, five rounds. You do that two or three times a week. You've ticked your gym twice to three. You've ticked your cardio in terms of the zone five hit stuff one to two times and if you can add in one 30 minute aerobic thing pushing a pram, pushing a pram, pushing 30 minute aerobic thing, pushing a pram, pushing a pram, pushing up the hill, get to a class, get to a class. You know even a really like walking the dog every day.
Speaker 1:No, that's, that's a really good week. Yeah, yeah, it's true and it's. It's simple and it doesn't require that much time. You know there's probably 90 minutes of gym. You've just talked about that. That's total in the week. Getting there, getting back, depending, there's probably a gym five minutes down the road. So here's the plan You're going to do two or three major strength exercises and just rinse, you know a little bit of a five-minute zone two sorry zone five and then try and, incidentally, fill the other stuff, do something active, take the kids to the bit, like whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:It goes a long way. And if you can just do that, uh, you know, you know, be somewhat in tune with the food, you know, liquids you're putting into your mouth, you're probably going to be okay for 10 to 15 and suddenly that time window will open back up because it's not a forever um period but it's definitely the hardest one and it's probably where most people fall off is it's. It's also and this is me being harsh without, you know, having kids or any of these. You know things of life and stresses, but it's often where people fall off and they blame it and they go. This is I can't and it's like I'm. Like, all due respect, we're fine, but there's also a large portion of clients that train here that have worked it out. So you know, I think if they can, sure please have a go, but don't expect it to be 90 minutes three times a week. It's not. You can't do that anymore. You need to change the way you're approaching it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm not, we're not going to sit here and say you know we're doing these things cause we're not in that situation. However, you know, purely from a physical standpoint, the bigger buffer you can build, the easier it is to retain and if you can manage it through this really stressful, busy new period, it's going to be much, much easier to come back to. So even if you fall off the bandwagon a little bit, that's way, way, way better than falling off completely 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, very, very good and strong message Across the board and particularly in that sort of that older group and for people starting off. I think one of the big ones we're finding, particularly downstairs and in here, where it's, you know, a little bit more personalized, which is probably where the whole health and fitness industry is really going to go is the personalization element. If we do a decent battery of testing and provide a really clear four to six week plan and then re-execute said battery of testing, adherence levels go through the roof. Like you just need to get them through that four weeks and bang, they're out the other side. So you know, some of the big ones we've seen and the most recent one for me was a client of ours and hopefully he listens to this because I was just so stoked with the outcome that, um, that really came from it.
Speaker 1:And this is a male in his 50s still playing recreational sport. He's coming to the gym to just keep his body in check so that he can continue playing the recreational sport, because psychologically, physically, it makes him feel good. He's's. You know, he's a lawyer, he's working really hard, he's busy, but more than anything he just wanted a body that didn't break down too much and so we've been working together for a year. He does external programming and just got that personality where he just doesn't miss and it's sensational, just he doesn't miss a session, does his reps, does his sets.
Speaker 1:And the biggest thing that we wanted to work on in the last eight weeks was he wanted just to improve his ankles. He just felt weak and unstable and everything else. So I just gave him a really small, easy-to-do four-exercise ankle routine pre his actual lifting training session in the gym to be able to raise his single leg forward and backward hops um calf raises to get to 20 reps on a single leg each um, and then some banded pogos if he has access to a band. He said majority of the time he only got the first three done, um, but they were great and I did them every session and I did all 24 sessions prescribed in the last eight weeks and I was like let's do this test.
Speaker 1:And the data's crazy. Like we did his counter movement jump and it went from a 23.9 centimetre jump in you know, march this year to 30 centimetres. That was last week, so he's added seven centimetres to that. His RSI on that counter.
Speaker 2:Which is a pretty good jump from an objective standpoint.
Speaker 1:For a male in his 50s that isn't an athlete or has been one his whole life. He's played these sports, but he's got a profession and a family and everything else. He's got much bigger priorities than his physical athleticism, and his sport isn't basketball.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah, so he hasn't been practicing jumping forever, but to add, you know, six odd centimeters, seven really, because it was 0.9 and 0.9 um in eight weeks. It's huge. So it even surprised me and I was just like all these principles are there, but um, you know, to actually see that result, um, and then, yeah, we did um single leg hop test and his right ankle, which was the good one, his RSI went from. Stands for reactive strength index is an indication of the stiffness in your Achilles and how springy you are. You'd expect Usain Bolt's RSI to be, you know, really really high one or a one point something, or maybe even a two. So the higher the number, the better. But in this case he went from a 0.3 on his right leg to a 0.4, which is again a huge improvement for someone in that age. We typically don't see those improvements like crazy. His left ankle was his bad one, that's had niggles the whole time. That went from 0.3 to 0.5. And so he actually got more improvement on that left side and for me it was just such a wonderful reminder. You don't need anything fancy.
Speaker 1:He goes to a pretty standard gym in the city. He does a pretty basic full body program three times a week. And you know, if I look at all his testing and we've got four other testing elements recorded his kind of movement jump in the first test, june last year, was 23 centimeters. Then, you know, two months later it was 21 centimeters. Then three months later it was 24 centimeters. Then, you know, two months later it was 21 centimeters. Then three months later it was 24 centimeters. Then, you know, he had holidays and everything else. So four months later it was 23 centimeters and then he went to 30. And it sort of speaks to that. He was working on all these other priorities from a strength and injury prevention perspective and then when we got to dial in on the ankle specific stuff which then influences your jump height, the result came really quickly. I think if it was week one, we gave him the ankle stuff and just said, see what happens, probably wouldn't have had that result and it comes off that strength basis.
Speaker 1:So it goes back to what you're saying for that person. That's in that busy period of life and they've built a good buffer through their twenties, they've trained really hard and now life's busy, life's hard, just don't fall, fall off the wagon and doesn't need to be the same as what you did, but do something, keep it sustained for 15 plus years. And when you come out the other side and you want to introduce some more complex stuff because you want to go walking, hiking, surfing, whatever, um, you can handle it and you're probably going to get fast improvements, really quickly. So, yeah, you know it's, it's the big thing that I think we're finding more and more is getting access to vault systems and high-performance measurement systems.
Speaker 1:For a person in their 50s, 60s, 70s is invaluable because it drives the adherence and their excitement to be involved in a program, because they see improvement. So you know, it's probably no doubt, you probably have a whole bunch of examples in your experience, but you know were, if you were to say to someone in that age group they don't have access to vault or whatever else, what can they measure? And you know there's probably one thing that you've touched on already your adherence to your training. Look back and what did you do over the 30 days and did it match what you said you would? That's an important leave and the most important one, the first one. But then, if they're going to objectively do some measurements, what would you encourage people to do so?
Speaker 2:the first one that I make a lot of recommendations for is your daily habits, and in my diary I write down training and then there's two subsections weights and cardio. Then I write down nutrition and my single nutrition goal is get 200 grams of protein in, and then my two or three, I suppose, physical things that I write down. So I write monday to sunday and there's three things that I can tick off each day and then I'll write a score out of 21 and I'll assign a percentage under every week. Yes, so my gym is I need to do three minimum and if I get four, great, I need to do four.
Speaker 2:Cardio, which is touch footy, boxing, whatever, and then I'm try my best to get 200 grams protein every day. I would do the weights and the cardio without fail. I'd say I'm probably five from seven on the protein. So I just give myself a little easy score, whatever that is out of 21 and then a percentage take off a few points because I don't plan to do gym every day, so like that, 21 would be like I don't know to do gym every day. So like that 21 would be like I don't know 15 or something. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's the self one that doesn't require any assistance any fancy equipment, piece of paper and a pen, and it doesn't need to be, you know, on that level, but doing three strength sessions a week or going for that walk every day that you said you would you know, just just something, really basic, easy.
Speaker 2:The second one is any wearable. As we know. You know, most people wear a watch or have a phone and the phone is decent, gives you something Resting heart rate. I'm a big one on HRV if you care for tracking a lot. I like step count for the more sedentary slash person who needs to be encouraged to exercise. I like step count for the reason it gets them going and gives them something easy to achieve. I'm not a big step count guy in terms of fat loss or body fat or anything like that.
Speaker 1:It's purely just to get some mechanism of representation. Yeah, it, it, it, it starts the momentum, starts the momentum. Huge on that huge momentum person.
Speaker 2:The momentum Starts, the momentum Huge on that Huge momentum person. So they're like the easy, easy ones in terms of in the gym. Let's say you go for a run, I like using a 1k or a 5k or a 10k, I would say if you can do a 10k under you know an hour, for most people that would be a really great starting point If you want to do 5k under 30 minutes. And obviously you can get faster and faster and faster.
Speaker 2:We know that the next and easy metrics for a lot of people would be push-ups. So for for girls and guys, I would say getting to 10 push-ups and then you know building it from there, um, and then you know things like on the rower or bike, literally being able to achieve the thing without stopping. So five minutes without stopping, there would be a lot of low hanging fruits that I give to a lot of people in the 30 plus category or even 20, with low exercise levels, and that might take three or six months to be able to do it. But once you see yourself tick those things off, then the excitement factor comes.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and that sort of momentum piece which is so important. Another one of the favorites with our over 50s group is a single leg sit to a box or a chair. That you know is that maybe knee height Can you sit and stand and how many can you do without any assistance? And you know there's some people in their 20s that play sport at you know Jeep's footy club that can't do five and it's like, mate, we should sort that out. You know we might have some people in their 70s that can do five Easy, can do 10. I'm now doing 12. Goes a long way and it's such a simple little test. But you know it's a bit of fun and you can actually be competitive with each other and do it, each other and do it.
Speaker 1:You know Em's got her story with her family that everyone's moving a little bit more, and Emily's one of our trainers and she's bloody gone viral on TikTok because she's got her pop, who's in his seventies, doing online training with her two, three times a week and the man's famous now as a result. But it's just, it's all those little things and it's just again using metrics. As you said, set yourself up with little targets and get them and then, once you do get them, that's when that momentum goes okay, what's the next one, what's the next one? And then you're away, and then it becomes a behavior change and adherence thing and suddenly a personal identity thing, and then you don't ever want to stop. It's like it's part of what you do and part of who you are. So you know, if Karen's coming on holiday, my family and I, we're probably going to get encouraged to go running and do something stupid on the rings or whatever it might be. It's just part of what you do. I have no doubt it's the same for you.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, pretty straightforward, pretty simple stuff. And I think, to tie it all together back to the longevity thing, those are the things that count far more than your nice membership or even you know what your DEXA scan might say or your bloods might say, like whatever else. If you can do some of those basic things not knowing where to start, start there, adhere and start to generate that behavior change and that shift, then sure, if you want to build more momentum and you want to go invest in it heavily, financially, time-wise, and get a really good understanding, go do it. But yeah, is it? But yeah it's. Is it worth it? Is it not worth it? Well, if you struggle to hold yourself accountable currently, you need to look at, you know, a couple of those key factors that will that be the mechanism that pulls the trigger to hold yourself accountable and get that behavior change?
Speaker 2:Yeah, A hundred percent. I think you know the things you've mentioned are all inputs. At the end of the day, we're doing the thing. The dexa scan and the aura are the outputs that's it.
Speaker 1:That's a really strong point, yeah, yeah, it makes a ton of sense. So, all well and good being able to access them, but you know what's much more important doing the damn thing. So, yeah, pretty interesting and you know, hopefully this gives someone a little bit of consideration that's listening to this going. I feel like I'm missing the bandwagon. Or is it worth investing in? And should I do it? Shouldn't I do it? Like? If it's going to be that, that, that the mechanism that gets you going to do more inputs, absolutely go do it, um. But if your inputs are pretty solid, will it add much more? Maybe, maybe not, probably not. Um. Be more targeted with those inputs. Then, if it might mean be stronger or work on, you know, things that are going to help you sleep better or whatever it might be, lean on those big rocks. Look at the inputs. The output will be sort of the result. But don't focus on them.
Speaker 2:Focus on what you're doing yeah, it's interesting from a personal perspective. I've been really consistent with my training forever Good weeks, bad weeks, but generally consistent. Nutrition, on the other hand, highly inconsistent. And it's not that I eat crap. You know, I have a chocolate or something, but I'm not like eating KFC and McDonald's. I wouldn't do that. My biggest downfall in nutrition is just not eating enough or eating as frequently. It's just having the good old caffeine diet and you know, hoping for the best.
Speaker 2:So at the start of the year I said to the boys in the group chat so just quick backstory I started this group chat with a few fellas and I said you have to post every day. If you don't get posts you're getting booted. There's about 10 blokes in the chat and you have to post your training and your nutrition every day. So I said, guys, fundamentally, fundamentally, we have to start with whatever you weigh. So I weigh 80 kilos, one and a half body weight, 120 grams of protein, so a super low protein goal for people who are active. And I go, I can crush 120 and I started like tracking a little bit, not in terms of apps, just enough to go. Okay, I understand that's 120 and I was like 120, fuck, 120 is easy, you know 150.
Speaker 2:Now I'm like 200 is my new, you know, goal and I have done. I don't do any magnesium, any creatine, not that I'm the test subject, but just for relevance of peripheral stuff. Uh, I, I do the ice and sauna. If a friend says, socially, do you want to go do it, I will do it because I like socializing doing it, but I'm not doing it as a means to do more recovery. Let's say I've just really stuck to my 200 and tried my best to get 205 out of the seven days a week and I would say, you know, looking better, feeling a little bit better, definitely, training better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that was the big one I was going to ask is training better?
Speaker 2:Definitely training better um training, uh, recovering faster between sessions and just helps me enjoy training, because that's what I like, yeah, doing most, yeah, so you know, I'm a big fan of all the peripheral things we've got listed ice bath, sauna, creatine, magnesium, boots, all that stuff I'm a big fan. But it just comes back to the pillars.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, now the pillars, now the pillars if they help you now the pillars, then jump on board, do whatever the membership requires, but don't forget the important stuff and stick to those. Hopefully it's a bit of a long winded way to get, hopefully, a very simple message through, but hopefully there's a few little levers and references for people to to to pull from that, particularly because there's going to be a range of demographics and you know, I suppose, familiarity and abilities and experiences that are listening to this. So, yeah, you know, focus on the important things and then, yeah, if the mechanism to get those important things done might cost a $250 membership or $300 membership at a really fancy joint, invest in it because it's going to be worth it in the long run and that's the most important thing and one thing I want to touch on just before we wrap this up is we're talking about this just before it's overall net positive, all these things net positive, and I'm just touching on under 30 or even under 35.
Speaker 2:if you go out on a night and spend whatever you spend and have to back that up by spending all this money on health and wellness, it quickly eats up most people's budget really quickly. So people are making that decision from an economic standpoint being like I literally just don't have enough available funds to do both regularly, 52 weeks a year. So what am I going to choose?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it's what friends don't going to choose Yep, yep. And then it's what friends don't want to be surrounded by. What are they choosing? Can I be the behavior you know simulating piece of that friendship group and off it goes. So yeah, very interesting, awesome, joey, always a pleasure. Mate, if anyone's got any recommendations or or things they want to hear us discuss and unpack within the industry and from a behavior perspective, by all means give us, give us a shout, jump through socials, send us an email, go through our website. But yeah, thanks again, ladies and gents for tuning in and Jerry, thanks for your time. Mate, we'll catch up in a month. Love it, see you bro Cheers, Cheers.
Speaker 1:Insights into SOF. Be sure to check us out on Instagram or Facebook or visit our website at scienceoffitnesscomau. Once again, we thank you for tuning in to the Science of Fitness podcast.