The Science of Fitness Podcast

Inside MeasureUp: Understanding the Real Metrics of Longevity

• Science of Fitness

Share episode

Joined by Nicole Gibson from MeasureUp, we unpack how precise testing of DEXA, VO2 max, and resting metabolic rate, turns longevity from a buzzword into an actionable plan. Nicole shares why early measurement prevents fractures, guides smart training, and keeps you accountable without fear of numbers.

• What MeasureUp tests and why it matters?
• the Bone Bus and population bone density screening
• hip fracture risk, costs, and prevention levers
• strength training as the foundation for bone health
• how to read DEXA beyond scale weight
• using symmetry data to fix gait and injuries
• resting metabolic rate and fuelling for adaptation
• VO2 max for health, not just athletes
• choosing reliable labs and repeatable protocols
• baselines, retesting, and building a plan

Book at measureup.com.au


SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the Science of Fitness Podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, fitness, performance, business, and wellness. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness Podcast. I'm here today with Nicole Gibson from Measure Up. Nicole, welcome.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00:

Very excited to have you on. And it's going to be a little bit of a different episode. You've got quite an interesting professional background. And then more so, you know, you're here measuring up, representing Measure Up, which is, from what I've seen, probably at the cutting edge in terms of this whole longevity side of things. It's really the foundation of what we need to understand. So very briefly, tell us about Measure Up, what Measure Up does, and then we'll go into the details of you and Measure Up and your whole story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, of course. So Measure Up started in Sydney. There's a flagship lab in Sydney, so it does scientific testing for performance health. So we've Sydney store Sydney Lab's been open for a long time, and then Brisbane has recently opened a year ago. So the the Measure Up side is one component of Measure Up. We also have the Bone Bus side, which is mobile, a mobile density lab, which services all around the country doing bone mineral density. So quality improvement activities for um general practice and and those in that space.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, wow. The bone bus.

SPEAKER_01:

The bone bus.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. That's uh yeah, it's like sort of exciting. It's it's the modern day ice cream truck, maybe. Um let's sort of go to you, and then we'll come back to measure up because I think for anyone listening to this, most of our listeners are really quite intrigued on the science and the evidence base. Um, I guess tools around exercise, health, performance, and longevity. Um, but let's talk about you. So, your background, your entry point, how did you find yourself working in the world of health measurement and measure up? And yeah, let's dive into the career history.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I suppose for the last five and a half years, apart from this year, I've worked in the osteoprocess education space. So I've actually partnered with um Measure Up um to provide that education. We we sort of had similar clients um sort of tackling it from a different perspective. Um, so I've worked alongside them for many years, and start of this year I've actually joined them. So I work directly for them now. Um really supporting um in the measure up side, supporting the the clients who are interested in longevity and health performance. And um sort of my role there is to, you know, sort of discuss and assess their goals, um, and then I sort of can help guide them to where they need to be and what sort of testing. Um, but yeah, back to my employment. So yeah, just that health and fitness really aligns with me personally. So um being able preventative health, I find is is certainly the key, and bringing awareness to the likes of yourself and your company and those who your members, this is such an area, a fairly new area on the scene, and it's going to, you know, be really crucial for reducing chronic disease and you know, just improving longevity.

SPEAKER_00:

Has that passion come from working, you know, as a nurse in a clinical setting for a long time and seeing these poor people suffering diseases, sickness, illnesses at that stage where it's almost too late and wish we prevented earlier?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah. So the preventative health in my previous role obviously more looked at um primary care landscape, so general practice. And we we looked at um our sort of target group were those over 70 who were at risk of a um of fracture. So identifying those patients, getting them scanned, you know, with the bone bus, you know, flagging if they've got weak bones or not is really crucial because we know that um these things can be prevented. You can't, I can't look at you and go, hey, you've got strong bones because it would be great if we could, but we can't. So a lot of people are, I say, ticking time bobs out in the community because they don't know that they've got weak bones. So being able to um bring awareness, get them scanned, you know, and sort of prevent them from having a major osteoprotic fracture, which in turn, like if we know if someone breaks their hip, uh, 25% of those patients will die in the first 12 months. 50% will need some sort of long-term mobility device, and 18% will look at um needing some sort of you know, aged care facility. So you think their independence um and their quality of life, their longevity um is dramatically changed.

SPEAKER_00:

And I so that's really what And that's soon as a sort of a hip fracture happens.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

So is that just a just a general fracture, or is it like it's a pretty that's that's looking at a hip fracture. And that's femoral head sort of fracture.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And and then so we're talking about prevention.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's one component of you know, I suppose of a big picture. And we know, like I know it was, it's probably gone up now, but it used to be something like$36,000, you know, if you're looking at the financial aspects of, you know, them going to the hospital, having their surgery, their rehab, but then you're looking at their their rehousing, their, you know, the whole lifestyle changes on a dime. Yeah, exactly. So I think m thinking of that sort of preventative health, but bringing it down to um our our labs, our measure up labs, you know, so many people could benefit from understanding what's what's happening inside.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally.

SPEAKER_01:

To you know, and doing it early, yeah, rather before you get to, you know, later on or before, you know, the reversal is a lot harder.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Yeah. So staying on the bone sort of side of things and and and that five years where you're working particularly on osteoporosis, what are kind of the major factors? So, one, obviously, you're looking at the density in the scan and on the bone, on the bone bus and and and getting people scanned and getting that understanding. What else are sort of the the lifestyle factors that are in and around bone health or preventative measures from false risk? They probably go hand in hand. You know, if you're doing the right things to mitigate false risk, it's probably going to have an influence on your bone health.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, according to like the RACGP guidelines, which is what a lot of the health professionals sort of the guidelines to manage osteoporosis, it's it's yes, you're looking at their bone density. So managing that, you're looking at their um vitamin, you know, vitamin D, their calcium intake, so their oral supplementation, are they getting, you know, enough sunlight, you know, in the summer, or you don't want to get sunburned in, you know, in Queensland. But um, you're looking at false risks, you know, their footwear, you know, so many times in clinic you'd see them with unsteady, you know, shoes. And I'm saying, could you wear nice solid sneakers next time you come to see me? Like because they are a false risk. So reducing that risk of them falling and fracturing because we know their quality of life, their morbidity, um, it just it's a ripple effect.

SPEAKER_00:

Capitulates. And unfortunately, it's it's this sounds rather morbid, it's not like a you might fall and die there and then it's going to be fall and it's a longitudinal suffering for a long period of time. It's not, you know, compared to sort of other health-related issues, it's it's one of those ones that probably as a wash-up, you end up suffering for a long time.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think with like we're talking about, you know, the bone bus and yes, we like the Medicare have screening um parameters where they they're eligible under Medicare for a rebated scan. And it's sadly it, you know, it's a lot, it's 70. 70, once you get turned 70, you can have one, and then depending on the results, you can have a repeat scan every two or five years. Yeah. So, which is great. However, measure up um, you know, if we could empower your members here, you know, the public, let's let's have a close look at what's happening inside now. Let's not wait.

SPEAKER_00:

I was gonna say, if you were to make the rules and say this is now rebatable, what would you think?

SPEAKER_01:

If we can like even look at your um, you know, your visceral fat, you know, if we can reduce cardiovascular disease, your diabetes, like honestly, you the amount of the amount of money that um goes into hospitals taking up taking up beds for unnecessary like for fractures and things like that, if we could prevent and and you know, yeah, mitigate those issues before they are too late. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Put putting pressure on the health care system, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So longevity, I suppose that's where it's preventative health, empowering the clients to understand their body better. Um and you know, giving them the tools to go, hey, this is what works and this is what doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00:

Staying on that, because obviously you're scanning, getting a whole lot of information to people, and it can almost come as a hindrance when someone gets a bone scan or a DEXA scan and their data isn't doesn't look that great, and they're on weird ends of the spectrum of the norms and they get a bit stressed and and sort of frightened from a nursing background, how do you go sort of communicating that that information and obviously providing, I guess, a bit of hope or a bit of encouragement for someone because just because the scan says something, it's like this is great information we can go and mitigate. It's almost positive information as opposed to, you know, wait till you get injured. Yeah, the suffering happens.

SPEAKER_01:

So if we're looking, for example, with um bone mineral density and you know, as I said, about the aging population, some people are maybe diagnosed with osteopenia. So they're not at osteoproduct, but they do have slightly weaker bones than you know, than they used to. And yes, they are at risk. Um, however, you can get the wheels in motion. And I talk about the wheels in motion because the management of osteoporosis is just not pharmacotherapy. You know, it's it's lifestyle, it's it's it's eating the right foods, that you know, the supplements, it's it's as I said, making sure you you've got the right quality glasses that you can see, that you're not tripping over things, the footwear, um, that your you know the home OT um community come out to make sure that that rug is, you know, that that's going to be a false risk. So um getting the wheels in motion. So when they do start, if they do have their routine scan in two years, um, if they do sort of slip into the next category, um, and they can just start their pharmacotherapy. You know, everything else is in motion, and often we can just keep them at bay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right. Okay. That's very interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

So strength training, resistance training.

SPEAKER_00:

What are the what are the things what are the main ones that I can help mitigate, you know, say there's a slight decline observed data-wise, like on the scan. What are the main ones? Obviously, you said strength and resistance training. I think a lot of people know that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I had a lot of a lot of the elderly population, if we're looking at that particular example, would say, Oh, I'd say, you know, what sort of exercise do you do? And they say, Oh, I look after the grandkids, you know, three days a week. Oh, I get a lot of exercise. I go, do you know what? That's really great for your heart health. But what are we doing? And they go, Oh, I cycle, I ride. Once again, really great for your heart health, heart health. But what's really impacting on your bones? Um, and so when I sort of give examples of, you know, strength training, resistance training, walking upstairs, you know, dancing, tennis, all of those shifting the weight, um, that's what we're talking about that will have, you know, the most impact. And that that's the sort of the exercise um, you know, you need to do to no matter what age, yeah, to ensure longevity and and strengthening your bones.

SPEAKER_00:

And strong bones, right? They need to be put under a degree of stress to promote uh the adaptation. Yeah. Simple, right? Um in terms of like standout client stories. I'm sure you'd have a heap, but does anything come to mind in terms of how valuable it is for someone to get this information and to act as that catalyst to generate those lifestyle changes?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, um, I know, I know we I had a a practice manager when we're looking at bone mineral density, uh, and she got tested because, you know, her husband owned the practice. And um, and she came back, and you know, surprise to her, she came back with um minus 3.5. So for those following along, osteoporosis um is two and a half standard deviations, so minus 2.5, two and a half standard deviations away from you know the average normal bone health of a say a 30-year-old, right? Yep. So um she was minus 3.5 and she thought her life was over. And and I said, what it means is you know about it now, you know, it's doing risk assessments. So should I climb up on the ladder, you know, and get on the roof and to, you know, fix the gutter or something, or should I get home help in? Should I wait for the you know the neighbor to come home or the the kids or whoever? Um, so risk assessments to not put yourself in that risk of fracture because we do know once they fracture once, then they're at risk of fracturing again.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, okay. It's I I like that word risk, and it's something that I like to sort of refer to in here when training and working with people is the gym in a strength training environment is a nice generally, particularly if you're doing it under supervision with a professional, it's a controlled environment and you can mitigate for risk. And so if you have been identified to be at bone risk, well, let's actually mitigate for that. And so, you know, we're not going to have those higher risk trips like you know, running out on the pavement or whatever else it might be. We can we can control for that. It's all those little things which which really do go a long way. Um and then as you're saying, the awareness is well, in the less controlled environment, maybe I won't take the risk of climbing on the roof and you know trying to clear out the gutters and someone else can do that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think um you spoke about numbers, you know, and you know, what do the results mean? And when when clients come into the lab and we have a body, we have a DEXA there, um, which does bone mineral density or it does body composition DEXA, and we talk about preventative health, longevity. You you're looking at that body composition DEXA. I would recommend to everyone, absolutely everyone. Um no matter what age look, you know, what age are your members here at the gym?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh sort of range from 25 to you know, the oldest is mid-70s, late 70s.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely perfect. They they would be most suitable to getting getting it a check-in, understanding what's happening inside. And yes, Dan, our exercise physiologist at the gym, he it's his responsibility to he does the scan um and he will go through the result. The scan takes like less than three minutes. Um, and so imagine having that information in under three minutes that could be life-changing and can put you on a path, you know, a good health path or whatever your goals are. Um, and so he will get that information, he will share it with you. So the goal for us at Measure Up is to empower the client to understand their body better, to understand what these results mean. How can they interpret these results? How can they then go, okay, this is what's worked for me, uh, this is what didn't work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and it's not, yes, we always recommend that use these results, have an understanding, but in conjunction with their own health professionals, so like yourself, um, your team here, um, together, they can then put a a strategic plan together and and for for a program.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, and to actually, you know, have something as a reference guide of here's your start, and then we go. It's um it's such an important part of it. And it's there's so much evidence from a behavior change, lifestyle change, social science of, you know, if people measure regularly, they tend to adhere to whatever it is that they're doing from finance and saving money and hitting goals and investment portfolios right through to people trying to lose weight. If you get on the scale every day, you're more likely to generate more behaviors that generate an outcome because it's top of the mind. And so we love our numbers. We do a bunch of biomechanical movement testing in here and strength and balance and all sorts of things. And those numbers are really core to us knowing whether what we're doing works.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it keeps you accountable, and that's keeps us accountable. This is exactly what I say to the clients when I have a chat to them. You know, it keeps, you know, your your trainer, your dietitian, your EP, you know, it makes them be more focused and specific to the individual goals of this particular person. And we try not to um get too focused on, yes, there's lots of numbers. However, it's about being consistent, um, consistent with their training program. Yeah. And, you know, whether it's a daily, like you said, a daily, a daily, being consistent, daily, consistent weekly, um, it may be, you know, they may don't get caught up of what the the scales say, but you know, are they eating more fruits and veggies that they a variety of fruits and veggies that you know they've never tried before and they're feeling good about that? Yeah. Um and because yeah, so it's if they can see improvements with um their fitness, with you know, when they come to repeat their scan, um, again, they can compare. Dan will sit down and compare from six months ago or three months ago, 12 months ago to where you are, what has worked, what tell us about what hasn't worked for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. And you can set up your focus as you know, I think a lot of people come in here starting training for the first time. They go, I want to get fitter, I want my this, I want my that, I want to like, okay, slow down, let's do one thing at a time. Giving them a number, giving them a let's look at just an entire DEXA scan, bone, muscle, body, fat, etc. Number one priority for me with anyone is strength and movement, and it's building a robust system. So can you train and have a system that can handle or tolerate a lot of work? I don't really care about the cardio side of things first. The amount of people that go and try and get cardio fit have never done any strength, don't have the strength to handle it, end up hurting themselves, drop off.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's got to be achievable.

SPEAKER_00:

It's got to be achievable, right? And so it's like let's get a DEXA scan, just to add to that of look, you've strength trained for three months, you've built muscle. And we can see that we've seen some actual change, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and we have on the on the body composition DEXA, Dan goes through like it's coloured. You can see like the you know, the red-orange is is the lean muscle, the the yellow is the subcutaneous fat. And you know, we've all got around our hips, our legs, you know. Um, and then you know, we look at the uh symmetry of the long limb, so the arms and the legs. And often, you know, I've had cli speaking to clients saying, um, and they've said, Oh, I've had I've had an injury, you know, I've been off for, you know, in rehab for and and they're obviously going to have some muscle wastage on that particular limb. So um on a scan, that shows that. And then, and then when they, you know, they may have done their 12-week rehab or or six months and they're checking in again, they can see that improvement, you know, they've done the resistance training on that particular limb and they're building that muscle up. It's a visual thing. Yeah, so we're not looking at what the kilos say on the scale, where it's it's a big picture.

SPEAKER_00:

And we we we know now, right, that that the mass, the weight, it's a lot less relevant as opposed to the split of muscle mass, bone density, water mass, body fat, and so forth, which is it makes a ton of sense to do this. Um, where does the resting metabolic rate testing fit in? And even before you answer that question, explain what that is first and foremost to people that probably what don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

So the resting metabolic rate, so for us to for you sit here and breathe and function, um, it's you're you're needing a a particular, a minimum amount of energy for life. And that's what um they measure. So the amount of energy that is required to function.

SPEAKER_00:

Just to just to be alive.

SPEAKER_01:

To be alive. And so with that, a lot of um I I find a lot of athletes, say triathletes often wanting um that particular edge, um it because it looking at your macros, um, you know, and we always make sure that they haven't run 10k before they come in. So it's normally done in the morning, um, well rested, and you're really seeing, you're really assessing your body's how much energy it's it's using at, you know, just breathing and lying there at rest.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, just functioning.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and so with that, look, obviously Dan, when when they come in, the EP goes through it and can explain in a lot further details and the results and and how they can help with your training, you know, in your eating and the nutritionists, you know, eating patterns, training patterns.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because it's I mean, it's such a a concept that a lot of people struggle to fathom. Yeah. Is they think, oh, my Apple Watch or my whoop said I burnt, you know, 150 calories on that workout. That's not nearly enough. I have half a Snickers and it's it's most and oh, and they sort of get so caught up in this caloric thing. One, the metrics on those wearables are very grey, they're not very accurate. But two, the shift in your metabolism post-being physically active is going to be you know influential, and that's gonna then, you know, obviously, even as you said, you don't let athletes do an activity and then measure their resting metabolic rate because it's it's it's going to be burning like a furnace. But yeah, understanding that base level, you're burning energy. And I think it's something that a lot of people, when they get into training or if they aren't training a lot, um, they misinterpret the fact that naturally you're going to be burning a lot of energy. And that's three meals a day may not be enough food to your rest of the food.

SPEAKER_01:

How can you fuel your body better?

SPEAKER_00:

Let alone your training.

SPEAKER_01:

And once again, it comes back to our our motto understand your body better.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And and and that's with the um, and we do the VO2 max there as well. Dan does that. And we have both the bike and the treadmill. Um, and so some people have, you know, I've had I've had clients in tears in the office because they've had an illness um and you know, they haven't been able to do the exercise they want to do, and they want to just, you know, from day dot, they want to like improve, they want to get better, they want to make changes. And um, and so they actually will jump on and you know, even though they're unfit, they jump on and that's the perfect time to get that baseline. Okay. I think a lot of people think, oh, I need to be a professional athlete to come and come to the lab to ask those questions. To have these questions, to have these tests done. No, and I think that's probably one of the biggest myths is you don't have to be a professional athlete. You can be anyone.

SPEAKER_00:

And and and But it doesn't matter about fitness levels.

SPEAKER_01:

And you and that's the other, I was gonna say that's the other myth is some people think, oh, I'll come and get that scan or I'll come and do that test when I'm a bit fitter.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no, let's let's let's let's get a baseline because then in six months time or a three months, whatever the interval you would like to measure, um, you can we can accurately repeat that test, yeah, and Dan will go, hey, this is this is where we're at. Look at that improvement.

SPEAKER_00:

Way more rewarding, way more incentivizing. It's so funny. The amount of people that say I need to get fitter before I come to the gym, I'm like, how do you plan on doing that? Like, it's the very place to get fitter. Like, but you know, in getting that understanding, that baseline is so important, it's really motivational, I think, for a lot of people. I mean, I've seen it work a ton of times. And and then the other end of the spectrum of those that are really well trained and are really they're either breaking a lot with lots of niggles or little injuries, um, and then second to that, the the ones that are well trained but not getting anywhere. And 90% of the time they're under fuel.

SPEAKER_01:

And you speak about the injuries, I don't know. We speak about, you know, the on the body composition deck, so we look at the um symmetry of the long limbs. So if people have had injuries, you've got your differences in your lean muscle mass, um, that can affect your gait.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally.

SPEAKER_01:

That can affect if they're a runner, they could be putting more emphasis on, you know, exactly. And then therefore they're getting um, you know, repetitive um injuries and and they're thinking, why? Yeah, and you think if they had had a scan, we could identify Dan would have flagged that, hey, this is something to be mindful of. There is a little bit out of the the normal you know, parameters. Obviously, if you're right-handed or you're left-handed, you're going to have a little bit of difference, you know, have a little bit more muscle mass on that right arm or left arm. Um, but there is a parameter, and that's where we could they can have those conversations and say, let's let's control for that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and go into Medigate. And it's so easy to do. There's so many, you know, good professionals, trainers, and that sort of thing out there that can just go, oh yep, that's easy to do. Here's the change we'll make in the program, see it in 12 weeks, and and sure enough. So, in terms of accuracy and standards and your experience, what what sort of separates a good DEXA VO2 resting metabolic rate from a bad one?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so it's it's with us that measure up, we have quality and experience. Um, so we always make sure that we have industry standard um machinery. Okay. Um, and also we team that up with our our technicians and our EPs who not only have degrees in those fields, but they have experience and um, you know, working in in this sort of measuring scientific measuring.

SPEAKER_00:

It's funny because you can go to a radiology clinic and they're generally spending more time on the heavy radiology equipment to turn around and quickly use a DEXA that they may not be familiar with.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so the the the DEXA for those um listening along at home, um, it's a dual energy x-ray absorption tree. So you think of the dual, it's got two purposes. So it looks at both the soft tissue and and the heart. So we're looking at we can look at the bones and then we can look at the the the lean muscle mass as well. So um, but obviously the bone mineral density, it's done on the same um machine um as the body composition. For the um body composition DEXA does not need a referral in Queensland. Um you can just just walk in. You can, yeah. Obviously, ring up would be easier or make a booking online. But you can walk in maybe. Um and um, but yeah, for the bone mineral density, you do need a referral from your GP. Um yeah, but with the body composition DEXA, we do do a focus area on the lumbar spine. So it will give you an indication um of your bone density. And once again, Dan will flag that with you if it's outside parameters and say, look, our recommendations given these results, we would recommend you CGP to get a referral and then come back and we can um do a different type of scan.

SPEAKER_00:

Actually, do a different type of scan. Yeah, okay, that makes a ton of sense. Um, in terms of like insights and trends, obviously we've um discussed how it's actually people are aware of what DEXA is. You know, five years ago, probably maybe a third of the population would have even maybe have heard of a DEXA.

SPEAKER_01:

Um there's still a lot of work to be done.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, it's not we know what it is. Are you actually getting one now? That that's probably the next point. But you know, for those that are considering their first test, DEXO VO2, um how do you sort of define a reputable provider? Because there's also that realm of easily accessible magnetic base scanners and all these ones, and I've been on them, and the quality and you know, to speak scientifically, the reliability and the validity seems way out. You can get different results on the same day on your body mass, your your your muscle mass, your bone density, whatever it might be. So, you know, yeah, if you're sort of speaking to someone that's really thinking about it, doesn't know where to start, and needs to get good quality, what do you suspect?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, like at measure up, we have it's like the machinery we have is the gold standard. So it's it's the top of the range um machinery.

SPEAKER_00:

So and how much of a range is there in the DEXA scanner particularly?

SPEAKER_01:

There's different brands. So we have a hologic machine. Okay. Um, and like you were saying, of those that you've tried before and you know, in you know, that you hold on, um they will give you an indication. They'll they'll give you a like a trend. Yep. Um, but if you were to hop on that 15 minutes later the next day, it could be chalk and cheese. Do you know what I mean? And and we talk you spoke about repeatability. So we have when we repeat our scans, we try to have like um the client prepare their body the same way so it's at a constant state. So we can have the most accurate um data that Dan can compare from the previous scan. So that may mean um for a body composition texture, say, like going to the toilet before they hop on, um, you know, not drinking excessive amounts of water prior, not doing um, you know, not going for a test and gay run that morning, um, you know, not drinking alcohol in, you know, 12 hours prior. Um, so yeah. Yeah, like just trying to keep it as neutral and um and even the foods they eat, um, you know.

unknown:

Totally.

SPEAKER_01:

Just keeping that basic um consistency to to compare. And that's when you're really going to be able to have those accurate comparisons.

SPEAKER_00:

Makes a ton of sense. And then from a wrestling metabolic rate perspective, I suppose just to give us a bit of an image before I sort of ask the question, what does that actually look like? How does that done? Is it a mask on someone's face and that's it? Or how does it work?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we've got actually, if you go to our website, um, you know, measureup.com.au, um, you can click on the Brismol link. But there's all like the the there's little videos of the body composition body composition DEXA, the VO2 Max, the resting metabolic rate. But for those imagining what it looks like at home, yeah, they're you're actually lying on the the DEXA, which is our sort of critical surface, yeah. Um and they have um uh a big sort of uh mark, they have a mask on and like a like a plastic, like so they're encapsulated.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh wow, yeah. So it's like a spacesuit.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's like a space suit. Um and so we try to put them in as a as like turn the lights off, you know, some some zen sort of calming music. Um yeah, so it's sort of really trying to control the environment. Control the environment. Yeah, um, and that's why it's it's so, you know, if you're looking at how am I going to get the best results, yeah, you know, doing it not after a hard day of work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, repeatable, reliable, consistent.

SPEAKER_01:

Doing it, you know, in the morning.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, totally. Okay, how long do they have to lie there?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, the whole thing, like from you know, it's half an hour, not the test, but from yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

From start to finish setting it all up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, okay, very interesting. And do do you have people like come in and they go, DEXA, resting metabolic rate, and the VO2 all in one?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, we have certain, we have different packages that um depending on their goals, we'll and I and that's where I sort of have these conversations, and you go, look, do you know what you would actually what you're telling me, you would really benefit from having the body composition DEXA and the um VO2 Max. We do have a longevity package, which is the VO2 Max, the body composition DEXA and grip strength. So um, yeah, it really do a bit of a suite of it really depends, but I think a lot of people who they may say, they may have a conversation, and a lot of people have this is I want to lose weight. You know, you might hear it all, that's why I'm going to the gym. They may not have a set goal, or they might not say, Hey, I'm training for this marathon, or I'm training, I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and it's what percentage split is that it's just general health, and then it's an actual athlete going, I want to do this performance thing, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and as I said, that was one of the myths I find that people think these labs and that accessible to everyone, they're not just for athletes, they're for everyone. And and when yeah, I I think a lot of people who go, Do you know what I want to make a difference and change my projectory of my health? Um, they come. And I think more and more people are the everyday person who goes to the gym, you know, they're not running marathons every six months. Um I think that's where that's a really good starting point. That's what I would recommend is let's get a baseline. How do we get a baseline? Let's just do a body composition dexter. And then we can build from there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Um, how do you help people that tend to get fixated on numbers? That tend to get a little bit too hung up on the number, the number, like what do you sort of say to them?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we always say it's not about the numbers. Um, and uh and obviously it's our job, once again, to explain to them, give them that, empower them with the knowledge what they're looking at, um, and and how consistency with changes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's never about it's never about, you know, the scalp.

SPEAKER_00:

Did I get a good test today? Do I come back next week? I might get a better score.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's not about that at all, right? It sort of defeats the whole purpose.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and the people, and once Dan have those has those conversations, they really do understand. And yes, they take there's lots of data that we provide them that they take away with them. Um, but that's where, you know, they have their support systems, their PTs, their EPs, their, you know, the GPs, anything with a P. Anything with a P, their dietitians, like the whole Allied Health team. Yeah, you know, depending on what their goal is, someone will be able to continue supporting them and guiding them because it's it's about targets. And those numbers are all about targets. Are you um in that, you know, for that someone your age, are you in the right target? Or do you know what you probably need to build a little bit more lean muscle because down the track, you know, that could affect, you know, everything, bone density, metabolic health and so forth.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. That makes a ton of sense. Um, yeah, it's pretty interesting to sort of consider, um, you know, I I guess it's we've been sold down the river, particularly in my industry in health and fitness. If you don't look a certain way, then you're not it, and then you're not healthy. And if someone looks fit and they've got veins and muscles and they're ripped, and it's like, oh, they're healthy. But it's there's so much more to it. And I think when people can start to think in this realm of, you know, get a DEXA scan, look at your bone density, look at your muscle mass. You you may look at yourself and think, oh, I don't look that healthy, but you go and get this information and realize, oh no, I'm actually probably in a pretty good position. A few little tweaks here and there, balancing it, bit of food and nutrition or whatever it might be, it's gonna go a long way.

SPEAKER_01:

And we we give it uh we give an estimate um for visceral fat. So the fat around your organs. Um and it's just a a bit of a guide. And you know, that can be really impacting on someone who is thinking, do you know what I've got a family history of, you know, cardiovascular, diabetes, you know, like you know, it sort of hits home, and that's something where they can then move forward and go, look, I wanna, I wanna stop this. Yeah, you know, I want to change my projectory, you know, longevity. And that it's longevity, we talk about longevity all the time, and I'm sure you guys do that at the gym here too. Um, but it is so true, and I think it's a social word that is so empowering and and it's just like it's just awareness. Totally right.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think it's it's so important because it's another buzzword. I've seen it happen. Functional was the buzzword when I started in the industry. Oh, it's functional training, functional, less functional. And it's like, hang on, definitively, what does that mean? You know, the other one is my hormones and balancing my hormones. It's like, can you name four hormones? Like, yeah, where does this actually fit into action, execution, result? Like, what does longevity look like? And I think this is really where it starts. It's a starting point. If you want to say I'm considering or training or working on my longevity, well, where does it come to? We know your muscle mass is a critical determining factor of your overall longevity health. We know your VO2 max is probably the number one indicator of how long you're gonna live for and how well you're gonna live. Yeah. And so, you know, you've actually got tangible information as opposed to I'm doing a little bit more uh zone two walking for my longevity. It's like, yeah, but is it enough? Is it working? What's your baseline? Do I even know? You you could you could be wasting your time.

SPEAKER_01:

I I would love, like honestly, once people, I find it fascinating. And we have a lot of um, you know, people come in and you know, and they and I share this journey with them from talking to them on the phone, and if I'm in the lab, I'll support them as well. Um, and it's just absolutely fascinating to see their faces when they when Dan shares their results. Hey, this is where you're at. Hey, you're not too bad, you know. And like he'll give a summary and do you know what? And he gives recommendations. Um, and the recommendation may be do you know what you would benefit from you know, adding three kilos of lean muscle, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, wow. What I need to get heavier?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, do you know what I mean? And then in order to do that, there's a recommendation of you know how many grams of protein, you know, to really support these goals. Yeah. Um, and they go, wow, you know, and it's as I said, it's never about what's on the scales.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and to see them going, hey, I've got a plan, and then, you know, then and you know, then they've got their support system like at the gym here, or you know, they utilize everyone in their in their sort of in their tribe to get those goals because you you can't do it by yourself.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, what does it mean if I'm yeah, I've done all this walking, I've done my zone too. Did it work? Don't know. And and then why why stick at it? What what what's that gonna motivate you for?

SPEAKER_01:

And and then when we say, look, you come back, you know, come back and see, and when they physically can see body shape changes on in colour, um, they just go, wow. Yeah, yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00:

What percentage of people have retested in the last 12 months that you've seen? Oh, really? It's exciting.

SPEAKER_01:

And we had I we had a um a client who was fit in his own field of sports, um, who decided to to start cycling and do a charity ride, for example, from I think the top of Queensland all the way down. Wow. And so you think in the different sports you're using different muscles. And so he came along and um considering he's uh muscly, you know, athletic, well-trained chap. Yeah, and um he was really, you know, he was surprised how unfit he was on the bike.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, just different tolerance, different skills, different matters.

SPEAKER_01:

And um, and so now he's obviously in training um to increase that so he can do this long ride. So it as I said, it doesn't matter what um, you know, sports and what background you're from, you're all very welcome at Measure.

SPEAKER_00:

Nice, I love it. Fantastic. In the next five to ten years, where do you think you know our measuring and testing data is going to go from body composition to performance testing? And I guess that sort of drip feed, you know, this stuff's been around. I did my master's in high performance and strength. I finished it nearly 10 years ago now, and it's sort of we did DEXAs, we talked about VO2 max, but only for athletes. It was not in the gym and in the recreational, healthy person space. Now it is in the next five to ten years. What do you think is going to happen from a testing and measuring perspective?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I was speaking to um one of our um owners who pioneered DEXA into the country, um, Dr. Jared Meek, and and um, and talking to him about it, you know, he he was saying how there will be advances in predictability of, you know, like with your smartwatches and things like that technology will always sort of keep improving. But, you know, there are some like MRIs that have AI components that can, you know, you know, measure, like start to interpret, like you can really, you know, measure every muscle, 609 muscles in the body, and determine, you know, by inch of what's happening there. Um, but I think more awareness will be happening about um, you know, I just wish it was mandatory that everyone, you know. And that's and once people once people know how much goodness, I can't talk about this enough, how much how much information and how life-changing one three-minute scan can be for someone's overall trajectory of their health.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, like that's powerful. I mean, it it's so true, it's so worth seeing that person that's listening to this and you're you know 45 and you've never considered yourself healthy and you're a little bit, you know, worried about it. Maybe you feel a bit embarrassed or shame about it. It's we can get rid of those associations. It's a judgment-free area. Totally right. And the only person that can manage it and deal with it ultimately is you, and it's not that complicated. And it literally just starts with just lying on a bed for three minutes.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's it's yeah, it's you keep your clothes on, you you know, it's it's painless, it's um, yeah, it's such valuable information. And the whole lab can provide no matter what path you're on, um, with your training, it will certainly be value add and you'll, you know, you'll get results.

SPEAKER_00:

The process, yeah. I think that's a strong, a strong final message, Nicole. And um, yeah, you know, I think it's it's just we're in that space, we see it all the time. Um, I'm live in this luxury little bubble where everyone I interact with is exercising or moving. And um, you know, it's I try and unplug and sort of look at you know, majority of the population that aren't um and they're subject to injury and other health concerns and conditions. And where do we start? Because I can sit and say you should, and they go, I know, but I don't. So where do we start? I think here's the solution.

SPEAKER_01:

Perfect, perfect solution.

SPEAKER_00:

Beautiful. All right, Nicole. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Um talk to us a little bit about we've you've guys got a website, how do people book in? What does that sort of look like, particularly the Brisbane locals and obviously the New South Wales, Sydney?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so you can go on to um measureup.com.au um and there's a Brisbane and Sydney office, so you can select which one you'd like to go to. Um there's yeah, you can there's lots of information on there that you can learn more about all the testing we do. There's videos so you can get a really good understanding of what it looks like and learn a little bit more about it. Um, but then you can just book in online and um pick a time that suits you. And look, Dan does have some flexibility with his work as we know that um some people um start work later. So he comes in early some days, he finishes late some days to hopefully to accommodate um all those listening. And um, yeah, definitely, you know, definitely can not highly recommend as a starting point, no matter where you are.

SPEAKER_00:

Beautiful, awesome, Nicole. Well, thank you very much for your time. And uh yeah, I think I better book myself a scan and a full assessment. Um I'm definitely overdue.

SPEAKER_01:

Perfect, thank you. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for listening to today's episode. For more regular insights into SOF, be sure to check us out on Instagram or Facebook, or visit our website at science of fitness.com.au. Once again, we thank you for tuning in to the Science of Fitness Podcast.