The Science of Fitness Podcast
Welcome to the Science Of Fitness podcast where we aim to inspire you to live a healthier and more fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things health, fitness, performance, wellness and business.
Hosted by Kieran Maguire, Co-Owner and Director of Science Of Fitness with an Undergraduate degree in Exercise Science and Masters degree in High Performance, the podcast includes guests and friends of SOF from all walks of life sharing their knowledge and stories within their field of expertise.
Join us as we provide listeners with digestible and relatable educational tools and entertaining stories to inspire a healthier and more fulfilling life.
The Science of Fitness Podcast
How Sport Builds Belonging For People With Dr Lulu Pullar
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We sit down with Dr Lulu Pullar, Brisbane Lions AFLW player and doctor, to unpack why sport can be the simplest pathway to belonging, confidence, and hope. We also go deep on what it takes to balance elite performance with emergency medicine, and why access matters more than talent when you’re building futures in remote Australia.
• the real purpose of DreameD and why “freedom to dream” comes first
• football as the connector for identity, belonging, and community strength in remote Indigenous communities
• Lulu’s sporting background and why switching from soccer to AFL felt natural
• why women’s sport quality rises with access to strength and conditioning from a young age
• keeping joy at the centre of sport to survive the grind of high performance
• what parents and coaches can do without taking choice away from the athlete
• the reality of balancing medicine and AFLW and the self-doubt it creates
• how elite sport improves clinical practice through feedback, reflection, and communication
• making medicine more accessible so the workforce better represents the community
• lifestyle medicine and preventative health as credible healthcare interventions
• what DreameD camps deliver on the ground and why connection across communities is a win
• sponsorship, funding, and practical ways people can support DreameD and tell better stories from Central Australia
Be sure to check us out across all forms of social media and subscribe to this channel if you want to stay up to date to the latest episodes and any other anecdotes with which we might share across these video platforms. If you ever find yourself locally in Brisbane, be sure to drop into one of our facilities or down on the Gold Coast in Burley. You can also check us out at scienceoffitness.com.au and see all things relating to what we offer in programming and performance, whether it’s online or in person.
Welcome And Quickfire Questions
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Science of Fitness Podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a more healthy and fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, performance, business, and wellness. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness podcast. I have the lovely Lulu Puller, Dr. Lulu Puller. I've never called you that. Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_02I'll just take the Lulu Puller.
SPEAKER_00So welcome, Lulu, and thank you very much for your time. Really excited to have you on this. For those that don't know, we have done a fair bit of work recently with Lulu. She set up probably one of the most exciting organizations that we've worked with. And she's given Joe and I a once-in-a-lifetime experience. So we're going to get into what that is and everything in on this episode. But before we begin, I always spring this on people without any preparation.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay, here we go.
SPEAKER_00So strap in. Two questions to get to know the person behind the mic outside of all these notes and accolades and everything else. First one, if you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, that's such a big question.
SPEAKER_00It's a big question to spring on someone, but I want the answer to be authentic.
SPEAKER_02If I could change one thing about the world, I'm gonna preface it with there's always so much poo-hooing about the world and how dire everything it is. But I actually think we forget to celebrate how incredible the world is and our lives are as well, particularly in Australia. Um so that's my first opening statement is a bit more optimism as opposed to I don't know, pessimistic.
SPEAKER_00Would that be views? Would that be it?
SPEAKER_02No, but I think if I think of changing something tangible about the world. Oh god, that is just such a big question. Can I have a think about it and say it at the end?
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, I'm gonna take the optimism, just generalized optimism as your first answer. But yes, we'll loop back at the end, I'll make a note. Okay, great. And then um I guess the second one is uh and and this is double barreled because you've got triple barreled, because you've got three things that I really want to get into today. Um but if we were to sort of uh go into what you wanted to do as your dream job as a young person, uh what would that be?
SPEAKER_02Well, when you were little. When I was little, the true answer is my dream job was to be a ski patrol doctor on Whistle Black Home. Um and become a yeah, become like basically a professional skier, but be able to provide, you know, a medical service in doing that. So going into the backcountry and setting off avalanches and then, you know, providing medical treatment in the most remote places.
SPEAKER_00Amazing.
SPEAKER_02So um, and to be honest, I actually think that's still a dream. Still a dream.
SPEAKER_00Well, I was gonna say, you're on your way. So okay, so for those that don't know Lulu, she's uh one of the more impressive humans out there. Um first and foremost, she's a doctor, she's a medical doctor. You've been practicing medicine for how long now?
SPEAKER_02I'm four years out now.
SPEAKER_00Four years out, yeah. Um specialised yet?
SPEAKER_02Just applied for my emergency specialist training literally two weeks ago.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Yeah, so okay, so there's part one. AFLW player um made your debut in what 2021 for the Brisbane Lions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And won best first year player in 2022.
SPEAKER_02That's a tokenistic award. So it's an award. I think I was the only player to first year player to play in a very dominant team.
SPEAKER_00Well, we'll take it. So, you know, there's that. So an elite athlete um in a really emerging sport and an exciting sport, particularly in the in the women's sports space. So that's really exciting. And then the Dream D foundation, if I can call it that, um, I'm gonna let you do an explanation as to what that is, and that's where I think we've done the most work together. And we came across Lula a long time ago, but yeah, we've we've been involved pretty heavily um of late. So tell us what Dream D is, really quickly.
What Dreamed Is Really About
SPEAKER_02So Dreamed is a a charity that I founded um sort of the start of last year. Um, and essentially it was built off this concept of I've always grown up and dreamt about whatever I wanted to be, whether it was a ski patrol doctor and whistle black comb. Uh, I had the freedom to do that um because I had the safety of my home environment. I had opportunities that, you know, allowed me to explore the ski fields and learn that, learn that skill. You know, I'm just drawing on my own experience here. And when I went out and worked out in Central Australia and Central Northern Territory and saw some of the you know unfortunate social circumstances, I just felt like these young women did not and do not have the ability to grow up with the freedom to dream freely, um, which I think forms the premise of any ambition. Um, and for me, that's what dreamed is really all about. It's about trying to um inspire and spark those dreams and that imagination and that hope and ambition. And then the second part is facilitate the pursuit of whatever dream it is that they do have. Um and simply put, that's really what it is, and we we use football as a way to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So AFL's the the mechanism with which, you know, we can one or you guys bring different female athletes together from the different communities in central and sort of northern Australia, and then to the opportunities that come off the back of that identifying talent, getting them into programs and yeah, giving them the the will to dream about being an elite athlete and and you know, traveling Australia and and further.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think it extends even beyond like sport. Like I think what people maybe don't realise if they haven't been out to these sort of remote regions and particularly um remote indigenous communities is AFL or football is the heartbeat of that community. Um, it forms a massive part of their family and their culture, and uh it's what connects them, it's what connects each community to one another, and it's also what connects these very remote communities with very different cultural nuances to someone like me or yourself. So for us, yes, it's about providing maybe football dreams that they might have, but on the path of pursuing football or being in a football team or having the opportunity to engage with incredible young professional female athletes, um, being able to engage with other people from different communities that are hundreds of kilometres away, seeing local role models. They're all playing football, but that might spark ambition outside of football as well, or um, it might lead to you know a safer environment at home, or um just all these little things that you know we might take for granted because we've grown up in stable, you know, safe in homes. Um but really football is the connector. Um, and if some of them go on and want to become footy players, that's fantastic. But um I I don't we're not trying to create footy players at the same time. We're we're trying to create confident young women who will serve their community um and be lot, you know, role models within their community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's it's it's the beauty of sport, it sort of is that mechanism and that means to one, come together and connect, to you know, strive for a common goal as a group, be it in your team or something bigger. Um, and then I think all the little things on a personal level from a uh life skills, no matter what your social circumstances are, um, the discipline of turning up to training, the discipline of playing within the rules, the idea of winning and celebrating, the the pain of losing, all those factors are such important life skills. It's why sport works, it's why it's probably sort of its time in terms of the whole sort of world that we live in, no matter Western, Eastern, whatever the society, it it still brings the world together, brings people together. And then it provides that opportunity. That's how people meet. You know, this entire business stuff was built on the premise that, you know, sport and activity and exercise brings people together. We just wanted to create that environment for people that stop playing sport. Yeah. But we want to replicate the same feeling, you know, whether it's an edge of a little bit of competitiveness in a class downstairs through to the high five and sweating and suffering that you do together and having a coffee and connecting outside of the exercise element. It's really the beautiful thing. And it was really funny being involved in the program, which we'll get into that. Um, but just seeing exactly that, you know, the the the the athletes, the the the women coming together from all sorts of communities and just being together for the sake of this is what's brought them together. So yeah, it's really powerful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think like I love the word belonging because I feel like sport does that better than anything and community, to be honest with you. And sport's been such a major feature in my life since I can really remember anything. And so I don't I think there's such a um power to sport in terms of creating a really strong identity around feeling like you belong to a community and you give back to that community, that community gives back to you, and so I think it's a really accessible way for people to feel like they belong. Um more so than education, which can not be accessible to a lot of people, not that I'm trying to support education, but the barrier to entry for a tertiary education is incredibly high. And so for me, sports able to still create that sort of purpose and that belonging and that identity, but it can touch so many more people than maybe some other industries where you might seek that out. Um, and that's been my experience. I'm sure there's other, I'm sure if you played in a band, you'd have a similar thing. But again, you've got to buy an instrument. Like, how do you, you know, there's so many different barriers, as with sport, it just seems to be quite a low, you know, bar entry to be able to access the meaning to life, really, having purpose and identity.
SPEAKER_00Totally. All right. Well, let's go into your sporting history then. Um, for you personally. I guess the end result is your AFL W career and you know being part of um the elite setup now for a long time. Where did sort of sports start for you? What was the main ones where you had you come from an athletics background? What was all of that?
SPEAKER_02Um I just played every sport when I was young, really. I'm youngest of four and very like sporty, active family. Um and we just, you know, as you know, you you know, Kieran trains my mum and dad um occasionally. Um but yeah, we just got thrusted into literally every single sport. Like I got thrown into a pool when I was very, very young because you know, you have to do it. Yeah, yeah. So I think my first sport was actually swimming, which was bizarre because I hated it. Um but yeah, just played literally every sport known to man, loved it. Uh, was not academic at all when I was very young. Uh, in fact, really hated school. Um, could could barely read when I was literally in primary school. Uh, all I wanted to do was play sport, and it wasn't because I wasn't interested in learning. I I did love learning, I just wasn't very good at it. Um, and then it just sort of came to me a bit, you know, later in my schooling. But yeah, just played literally every sport, was big into running, um, you you know, grew up playing soccer very competitively, uh, played that all through, you know, middle school, high school, out of uni, uh out of school, sorry, um, and then sort of transitioned into AFL uh halfway through uni.
SPEAKER_00Okay. How old were you when that happened?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I don't know. How old are you like 22 maybe? Yeah. No, no, younger than that, 21.
SPEAKER_00Right. Because it's a big thing, I think, um I've seen in AFL and NRLW programs, is a lot of the athletes foundationally weren't necessarily AFL players from high school. Um, and then they transitioned, be it from an athletics, say touch footy and netball type background, a running type background, to or or probably football soccer itself was the original one that I think was both men and women's, and they played it pretty early through school, to then going, okay, now it's AFL.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Was that a big change for you?
SPEAKER_02Um, to be honest, not really. Like it's sort of funny because I I think when you see with with what you see with the NROW and AFOW, obviously male-dominated sports and new to to I guess women, and so you are seeing a lot of women coming from sports where females have been in that space for a long time, like soccer or netball or basketball. Um, and now you're starting to see that paradigm shift where you know we've got academies set up and we're drafting girls who've been playing footy from eight years old, and you can see that talent coming through. But for me, the transition actually felt other than the physicality of the game of AFL, it felt quite natural because I grew up a fanatical AFL fan anyway. So I grew up watching a lot more AFL than I did soccer. I just happened to play a lot of soccer. Um, and the skills were quite translatable. Um, but I knew a lot about the game. Uh, so it felt quite natural and almost like kind of bizarre to be playing AFL because like it was something that I would only watch like the lions at the Gabba, like I just never thought I could ever play as a lion. I was just like, oh, that's just not but I thoroughly enjoyed watching them and I was quite content with that because You just accepted it because I was just like, oh well that's just not feasible, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02Um, you didn't really think about it. Um, and so soccer was just you know your absolute path. But then when I started playing AFL, it was just my first uh experience was wow, this is just so much fun. And like the freedom, I was just like the running, like because AFL is a game of of turnover, it's a game of mistakes, really. Um, as with soccer, is a game of you know, technical skill and ability. You you do not want to turn the ball over, and when you do, it's it's bad news. So they're two very different games culturally, and so one of the things when I first started playing footy, I was just like, oh my god, this is so fun! Like the camaraderie, the just it was kind of chaos, and I sort of just loved it. Um, and that's really for me, it was just quite a natural transition. The physicality stuff I had to adjust to, but you know, you always do when you're competitive.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah, that helps. It's funny because like, you know, if if the AFL as a human was listening to this, it's probably something that they would have gone, oh shit, we probably could have done this women thing earlier.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00In that, as you said, it just wasn't even conceptually an idea that you could probably one day run around at the gabber and play a game. You know, that you could actually be a lion and run and kick and catch a footy and bounce it and handball it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You just enjoyed watching it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How much of a market do you think they've missed out on had this started 20, 30 years ago instead of what, 10, maybe years ago?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, I mean, to be fair, women have been playing AFL for a while, but it was scarce. And I even remember when I was a young girl, like when you would see a girl playing in a boys' AFL team, like, you know, this is back in the day, so you know, take it with a grain of salt, but you'd always think, Oh, that's a bit that's a bit weird. You know, why why does she just play like netball or soccer like me, you know? And I would obviously never have that thought now, but that was just the culture at the time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but absolutely, I think, you know, there has always been an appetite for it, like any women's sport. And I think you're seeing that now. There's there truly is a strong appetite for women to become elite athletes. There's people, you know, women are driven to in this career path now, they're choosing this career path, and then there's a there's a market for the entertainment industry to watch it and support it and to actually make money from it in the business of women's sport. Um, but I think with these male-dominated sports, it was always going to take longer. And I think particularly with AFL, it's probably the most athletic game you can play, in my opinion. Like it's 360 degrees, it's an exceptional amount of running, jumping, like it's extremely athletic.
SPEAKER_00It's a complete sport. Like it is, it is of land-based sports, it's it's as hard as it gets.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think the women, the female athlete needs to develop for that game. And I think we're still seeing that in the development phase. Um, you know, it like I'm certainly not athletic enough if for AFL. Like, you know, I think there's we will see that over decades as uh we begin to grow, you know, in this sport and in our athleticism. The game itself, you know, was obviously built around male athletes. And I think as we become more athletic and equipped um within the game and make the game our own and really define what an AFL game is, um, we're gonna see the quality go up and we're already sort sort of seeing that. So um, yeah, I mean, if it started 20 years earlier, it would it would have been sort of advanced more. Yeah, yeah. You could say that about any any women's sport.
SPEAKER_00Hindsight's a beautiful thing, right? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I think it's there's always been a one thing I think that surprise um surprised me, like looking back now, I'm like, there's always been an appetite for women to play AFL, um, just like there's been an appetite for women to play any sport, really. It's just a matter of access. And if you provide the access, the women want to play, will play, and will succeed.
Growing Women’s Footy And Physical Prep
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it makes a ton of sense. It's really funny because it within our masters, and I did this now nearly 10 years ago, um, we were looking at data around female-based sports and injuries, particularly the contact sports, and the ACL was a really big one. Yeah, um, and one of the lectures lecturers, probably one of the best biomechanists in the world, a lady called uh Professor Sophia Nympheus, she was talking about uh ACLs in female sports, and she's like, Okay, guys, what do you think it's from? And is it Q angle? Is it hormones? And we're all putting our hands up, and she says, It's none of that. First and foremost, it's women haven't had access to high-level SNC compared to you go to a all-girls school, what is the S and C program? Compared to you go to an all-boys' school, what's the SNC program from year eight? And I got taught to squat with a dumbbell in year nine, barbell on my back in year ten, and I've been squatting pretty much once a week since then. Yeah, like you know, I'm looking at my sister's strength and conditioning, it was like they did a Pilates class today. I'm like, oh my god, knowing what I know now. And so her whole argument was let's bring physicality into women's life, not just yes, for the sport, it's a nice way to motivate it. Um, and then she even went back to the rough and tumble and the the contact of that. And you know, again, young boys get given balls and outside go play. Most young girls generally like, oh, here's a doll and go sit inside, and that's gonna shift and that's gonna change. And then we're gonna see females develop over decades from the age of you know two, three, four, five years old, they're tackling and playing. And then they develop the capacity to run around in these sports. So, yeah, it's really interesting. And having watched it evolve, even just in the last 10 years, as you said, the quality of athlete just from a exposure has improved drastically, you know, and there's some athletes that have been in the competition for 10 plus years. Um is that something you're noticing for the younger females coming through the programs now that they seem to just be a little bit more developed and robust than it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think back to your point earlier, like when AFLW first started, they they picked honestly some prime athletes. So there's actually a lot of athleticism in the competition. And that's that's been there since the inception. Um, because they've had a really good pick of, you know, like Allie Anderson's an exceptional athlete. She's been in the comp for over a decade, um, you know, Lions player, brown low medalist or like she, you know, players like that, they've they've plucked and they're just exceptionally athletic. But now you've got obviously people coming through academies and programs and stuff, um, and they've got all of that training walking into a club at 18. They are equipped from an athleticism point of view, but also equipped from a footy athleticism point of view. Um, and that's probably what we're seeing that's a bit different as opposed to taking a really high performing athlete in another sport and then switching them over. Um, they've still got that base athleticism, but does that translate to the game of AFL? And that that can take a bit of time to mould. So yeah, I think it will be, I mean, I mean, we're probably only just seeing it in the last like one to two drafts. Um, but my teammate, for instance, Zippy Fish, um, who's a WA girl, like she's just a freak talent. Um, and you know, she's she's been in pro well, she actually grew up playing soccer, but like she's been in these programs and elite programs for, you know, her whole childhood. And she's got this raw athleticism. But the way she's been able to transition from juniors into senior, you know, professional women's football's just been completely seamless. And she's probably one of the best players in the comp. And I think that's sort of what you're seeing now is that um you'll see these young players really um outperforming, I guess, some of the oldies.
SPEAKER_00So so to the young um female sort of athlete that loves her AFL listening to this, what what would be your message then that someone that's in sort of mid years in high school and really thinking about having a crack at it. What would you be saying to that?
SPEAKER_02I think there's I think the number one most important thing with sport is you cannot lose the what the purest part of sport is, and that's the joy. And that transcends you know social amateur professional. And for me, longevity in sport is maintaining that that joy. And joy is joy in the tedious things too. Like coming in and when Karen tells you to do those internal rotations of the hips. Like that is not fun to sit on the ground and just move your hips like that. But you need to find something that's going to make that not that particular process joyful, but understand that this is part of the big game. Yeah. And I think for me that makes all of the training and all of those tedious things and all the ancillary stuff that's associated with being a professional athlete not a sacrifice. It's it's a privilege. And like I think if you can maintain that joy and that perspective and that insight, then you're going to have a really long career, whether it even be at an amateur level or a professional level, I think that for me is the most important thing. So you know enjoying your teammates, contributing to your team, making your teammates better around you I think that for me, creating an environment where you don't just belong but you make other people feel like they belong too that that's the sort of stuff that you remember in at the end of a season, at the end of your career, you know, at the end of a game you know everyone's going to say you got to work hard, you've got to be disciplined, you've got to be all this and like obviously that's a given in any high performing industry. But sport will test you more well elite sport will test you a lot. And if you don't have the joy and that purity of like why you're doing this then it'll break you almost reel you in and spit you out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah other end of the spectrum to the teachers and the coaches and the parents of these athletes what would you say to them it's the athlete's choice.
SPEAKER_02I think that's what I'd say to them too. And I I'm learning that being the leader now of a of another organization that's not a you know elite academy but ultimately the buck stops with the athlete. If the athlete wants to do it the athlete will do it. And it's their choice and you can support them and encourage them and facilitate it and do as much as you can but you cannot do it for them. And um I think that for me is the biggest lesson. And so just providing that you know support of the of the human not just as an athlete is really important. And I think sometimes like pushing is not a bad thing. Like I got pushed like I've got a target mother. So like you know geez there was if I told mom I was going to cross country training at 5 30 in the morning and I wasn't there like I knew about it. Like so I don't think there's a bad thing to be pushed but it was still a choice. And I think understanding that and just being then a supporter and a facilitator but not trying to do it for them and not trying to enforce it on them is really important. And then I think the other thing too is just recognizing all the other things in in an athlete's life that is not a part of their athletic identity is absolutely crucial. And thankfully for me like that's a big part of my life. So um I get so much satisfaction out of being an athlete because I've I've got all these other different hobbies and interests outside. And I think if you just pigeonhole the athlete too much, that's just when the pressure cooker goes. So um I think the what you can do as a support person or a coach or a a parent, a friend is to continue to lead that athlete down other pathways too that is going to fulfill their life and give them purpose outside of their athletic ident identity because at some point they're going to face a major challenge in their you know athletic career and if you don't have anything else in your life to fall back on it's going to implode every aspect of you.
Why Medicine And How It Fits
SPEAKER_00So yeah yeah that that's a I mean it's such a strong message. We've had some of the you know some big elite athlete names and and that's the main thing that they tend to say after they've spent you know 10 a decade in in an elite program they're going I'm actually a human outside of this and I gotta remind myself of that every day because most people interact with look at me as just this rugby person or just this swimmer or just this certain athlete and um and you know yes that's what I do but it's not who I am. Yeah. Which is an important thing. So nice little transition then because let's then talk about medicine. Like you haven't just gone and done a little side project or something. You've literally gone and done medicine. So that's no mean feat in its own right.
SPEAKER_02What motivated that um it was sort of like I said I was actually really not academic at um in primary school and if anyone knows me that's watching this listening to this rather they would agree with that. But my I think my main motivation and it and it's not just with medicine is just like I I just the curiosity it just fueled my curiosity it's a lifetime of learning in medicine which is both exhausting and daunting but also one of the greatest aspects of of your job is just you just can constantly learn and it's a very dynamic career. And that definitely attracted me to the profession. I think the other thing was this concept of service I really genuinely really loved the idea of being in a career that was a service career that is you're doing something for someone else and you can have true impact and and and see that impact. And I thought that was just a really rewarding way to you know you spend a lot of your life working I thought well that sounds like a rewarding thing to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then it was also just a sliding doors moment as well I was over in the States at the time playing soccer, studying and you know the the soccer honestly wasn't going too well and I came back to Australia, kept playing soccer and just sort of applied for medicine and it just sort of all synced up like it was just like this sliding doors moment. Not to say that it just happened because you know it was thoughtful but you know it was a little bit opportunistic too. So um yeah that's probably how I got into it.
SPEAKER_00That's interesting. How are you finding balancing the life of medicine and elite sport? Like it's a it seems on the outside like a lot to navigate.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah um I get asked this question probably the most balance is a word that I'm just like I probably me and balance don't agree with each other.
SPEAKER_00Balance is subjective.
SPEAKER_02I know like it's it's a I don't know it's it is what it is. But look I think early days it was manageable because the professionalism of the sport wasn't at the level that you know the demands of the sport simply just weren't as high as what they are now. And women's sport was always friendly for careers. And that was probably you know five years ago really um and so I was actually somewhat manageable. So I went through a whole medical degree and the first few years of my career working or studying full time and then working full time and whilst it was challenging and hard work it it it genuinely was doable. But now as we've as the professionalist in the sports obviously you know increased uh which is fantastic it's become a lot more unmanageable to be able to work full time and then obviously perform and it has come at a cost with you know injuries and um you know even this constant thing of like doubting yourself in both careers, you doubt yourself as an athlete because you're like, well I'm not training like my teammates or my opponents because I'm working and you know I'm having to do sessions at 5 a.m or 8 p.m. It's like what's the quality of that session you know I can't do my recovery and like you're constantly doubting yourself. But then you go onto your workplace and in the hospital and then you doubt yourself there because you're like well you know I'm not going to that conference or I don't have you know as much time on the floor. So I don't have exposure to all of these different clinical scenarios. So I need to do actually you know so you're kind of just bouncing between these two worlds of like sometimes really doubting yourself and not feeling super competent or equipped in either. So the way I've managed that sort of in more recent years is is sort of breaking my year into into parts and so off season is a bit more medical, you know, personal lifetime and time to sort of get my body right and freshen up. And then you know preseason in season is is where I can really commit as a professional athlete really and just tick medicine over as a way to stay competent and sane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah absolutely it's it's quite funny because you know you say that you feel this sort of doubt and conflict of oh you know I'm not getting max maximizing either but you know how often have you stopped yourself and said by being an athlete it's actually made me a better practitioner, better, better doctor or vice versa. You know you probably don't give yourself credit for that very much. Is that something you've ever thought of going this actually gives me an edge?
SPEAKER_02Definitely in um in my job um like as a doctor I a lot of my like supervisors or mentors like definitely support this notion of my professional um habits or my professional sorry career has helped me in medicine. And I would say so as well like I think just your ability to one of the things I've probably noticed the best is um your ability to seek feedback, receive feedback, review yourself, not take it personally like is probably at a higher level than maybe some of my peers and that's just simply because elite sport is feedback every single day of the win or you lose like it's so clear. Like you're literally getting judged constantly. So you have to develop a very sort of thick skin about yourself and also just you've got to be incredibly honest about yourself but also be able to move on from things very quickly too. So like learn and so that that constant review feedback loop um is very refined for an elite athlete if they've been in the system for a while. And I think I've been able to translate that to medicine not to say that I do I don't do everything perfectly at all but like it's I think I I do use you know moments of whether it might be a mistake or um an oversight or you know a poor outcome or whatever it might be a challenging situation you know you you're constantly able to learn from it. And then if you're learning from it you're able to and then move on from it and take that with you. And so I think that's been a major um sort of asset on the floor. And then probably just like communication styles as well it'd be another one too like and that's they probably you know link in with each other but your ability to communicate as a doctor I think is is one of the the greatest tools you can have as a you know you know your ability to to connect with a patient or communicate to a colleague it's just crucial. And so and I think sport does teach you teach you that as well and it gives you many opportunities to practice it. And so I think that's you know another thing that I've probably been able to to develop um and translate to medicine too.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely it's something I say to you know anyone that's in a sports program you know and some of the guys that I work with in the rugby program it's like yeah this is hard mate like you you are asking yourself to play at a pretty much semi-elite level um you're not really getting paid for it and you've got a full-time job and some with aspiration in your career you're gonna be tired you're gonna be a bit shitty uh and it's gonna be really challenging but there's a reason why most people aren't doing a really high level sport and a really high level career. So if you want to be unique it's gonna be challenging and in its own right there's a skill and development capacity there which once they think of it and they go oh yeah that's right that's it's meant to be hard. Yeah it's you can't you know stand and hold a premiership above your head without having made some sacrifices for lack of a better term. So yeah I love that part of it.
SPEAKER_02Within the medical system having done the sport thing and been really active is there anything you would change within the system I had to think about this one because obviously I'm I'm very you know premature in my career so I don't have any big bold sort of things um but I've done a lot of work in in remote um healthcare in remote Australia uh working out in Alice Springs for a few years now and um I think it probably comes back to the two things is how can we make medicine more accessible to people both people that want to become doctors or health practitioners I think the barrier to entry for medicine um definitely alienates the specialty to a certain demographic of people and I don't think that's going to deliver the best outcome for the community because ultimately it doesn't represent the community.
SPEAKER_00That's very interesting.
SPEAKER_02So for me my change would be and I don't have a solution but like how can we make the study of medicine um essentially you know more accessible to more people rather than just you know your stereotypical um doctor which is also very important to have that person there as well but because then we're able to engage more you know long-term permanent staff in very remote regions of Australia and Australia's got a very difficult um in terms of providing healthcare it's a challenging country to provide healthcare because so much of Australia is so remote and arid and so that is actually a challenge in itself is like obviously we've most of our populations in our you know on our eastern seaboard and our you know sort of densely populated along the coastline but we do have a very large population spread all across Australia um which is quite unique for you know Western medicine. So it's like how do we deliver still evidence-based high quality medicine when we're faced with these challenges of remoteness and cultural barriers and um you know just an abundance of things that remoteness brings and for me it's like well because you know there's the turnover of staff out there is just exponential and it's like how can we engage more young people into medicine that want to be in these regions that want to stay there want to live there want to be a part of the community you know Caucasian, indigenous um you know refugees, immigrants like how can we get more people engaged into a career that traditionally just does not allow for that because the barrier to entry is so damn high. Getting into medicine is so damn hard and it shouldn't be like obviously there's a certain level that you need to have but like it just shouldn't be because ultimately it's just something you can learn and if you've got the curiosity and you've got the the drive and the endeavor to do that you are capable of becoming a doctor or a nurse or whatever it is that you want to become and it's like how can we make that more accessible to more people so then it represents more of the population and we don't have this issue of isolation almost isolation and you know delivering you know this I'm just more speaking from a remote sense is just like they just cannot keep permanent staff out there and you know we can't provide this consistency of care and you've got a lot of you know transitional doctors sort of coming in that you know a lot of foreign doctors coming in which is fine but it's like they do that or even Australian doctors who who've got no concept of the the cultural nuances in these sorts of places and even just the complexities of like well where the hell's Kintour it's like well Kintour's 700 kilometers away from Alice Springs but we still see patients from there.
SPEAKER_00So it's like you know it's just how do we it's really interesting I mean it's in this sort sort of again wonderful caveat into dreamed itself but um just like using sport and and and AFL to get people to think and connect um it's that access to you know I feel the same about physicality physical activity and exercise in a health sense and it's a problem even in you know um very central developed um major cities in Australia let alone remote remote communities um but it's that ability to have a degree of medical literacy even if you're not going to work in it you know most people in a well established um I guess city in Australia will know that they should take their prescription from the start to the finish yet maybe in a remote community they've never actually been communicated that language or knowledge. And so it's sort of spreading that. So it makes a ton of sense because then once you have a little bit of an understanding and you are curious in nature you then might ask why.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which then might promote a thought and then oh this is actually a career and I can be a nurse right yeah I can actually go and be a doctor and it sets that aspiration and that hope and then I want to engage back in my community. I want to go back to my home. I think we're all called to a home at some point in our lives and if you don't have a community that has access to that thought process they may not go on that journey and therefore be able to come back and give back to the the very place that they took them there.
Lifestyle Medicine Beyond The Hospital
SPEAKER_02Like even medicine like obviously getting into medicine is one thing but then even when you're in it then you've got to do these placements for years which is obviously essential and like 100% support that but like you it's very difficult to work like how do you support yourself like so imagine if you are you know from a more vulnerable demographic you're in this medical degree then you're doing full-time placements then you're meant to be working part-time maybe you don't have any family networks here you've got minimal friends you're trying to pay like it's just challenging and I'm like and that's why you're seeing you know majority of the doctors look like me and come from you know went to private school and like and that's that is also fine but I'm like how do we make this more accessible to more people because ultimately like your patients are people like you but they're also people no one like you. So I think it's really important for people to see um just more doctors in or nurses or allied health staff in these roles that might look like them and then you know might actually represent the community a bit more. And I think the other thing about medicine too and we literally spoke about it just but this morning is and I kind of think we're shifting towards this like lifestyle medicine and what you guys are doing here is medicine too and just shifting that mindset of medicine isn't just like you know intense interventional things or you know general practice or pharmacology or surgery or hospital. You know um like proper interventional whether it be medical or surgical like medicine is also you know preventative medicine which is really what you guys are doing. And it's evidence based and for me I would love to see a system in medicine where we actually support and subsidize sorts this sorts of lifestyle preventable medicine which is not necessarily delivered by doctors but it doesn't need to be because doctors are not the experts in biomechanics. So and I I see there's a lot of value in that sort of medicine because it prevents you know arthritis it prevents so many chronic diseases type 2 diabetes and the list goes on. And I'm so if we can invest more into these sorts of services um you know particularly in like metropolitan areas where it could be accessible to people I think there's a lot of value add um for the healthcare system down the track and a lot less intervention needs to be required land yeah and that intense one and puts more pressure on a an already high pressure system.
SPEAKER_00I mean we we've said it before as you said we discussed it is is, you know, and I encourage our anyone that comes through our internship program as a exercise scientist or exercise physiologist to consider this and consider what you're doing of utmost importance and invest as much as you can in terms of time and enthusiasm in this learning opportunity because you need to have a medical grade understanding of the human body. Yes, we don't have to worry about pharmacology and thank God because I wasn't very good at chemistry when I did my undergrad but a lot of what I do is yeah it's an intervention it's it's it's it's a cue it's a feel this it's it's I've got to have an understanding of the psych, the neurons The chemical and the mechanical elements to be able to get a really positive outcome for maybe someone with back pain, maybe someone trying to lose weight, maybe someone you know with hypertension, maybe someone who's got poor bone density. You know, it's like there's so many little things, and I've got to know my stuff, and I've got to know the mechanisms that drive the change. And then I've got to generate them without you know being able to go, I'll just take this pill and do it. Yeah. Um, which is the wonderful thing. And I love the challenge, and I think it's really an exciting space to work in. Like I love it every single day, every single moment.
SPEAKER_02Um you can see that with your like with your business as well, like with you and Joey, like the the genuine like passion that you guys have is like literally palpable. Like it's it's unbelievable. And I think that like medicine for me includes this. And and the other part which you haven't even mentioned is is the mental side of this. Like I've just watched, you know, young people walk into this gym smiling, clapping, asking how people's days are what they're doing on the weekend. Then I've watched middle-aged elderly people walk in, oh, I've just come from pickleball. Like it's a community. And, you know, we've we've got this mental health crisis at the moment. Well, not the moment, but consistently. And you just think, wow, imagine if people just had a soft in their in their community or or whatever it is for them. It's I I think there's just so much benefit in actually engaging and and treating this and giving the value, like giving the credibility to the service that you guys provide as medicine before you even need the medicine, if that kind of makes sense.
Dreamed Camp Impact Across Communities
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and that's that's the whole idea with it. So yeah, it's really interesting. Well, let's let's jump into dreamed because I think, you know, as as I said, we had a nice little caveat there of you know, being able to create uh access to higher quality medical understanding, whether someone pursues it as a career or not, but in a remote community, having that thinking about that and being curious about it is what's going to drive potentially that change, and yeah, someone in the community becomes a doctor and they re-engage and they support a couple of hundred people around them, um, and they might be as remote as it might be. So, as you touched on, that's really what dreams start with started as. Um, it's interesting that you say it's not just about the sport, because it my crude assumption of it was it is, um, but it's you know, I love that you sort of cleared that up. So, you know, we sort of touched on the primary purpose of it, but in terms of what you've observed the organization bring to the communities in the Northern Territory, um, what's some of the feedback you've received from the communities?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, we had a we had a like a debrief session with um everyone involved essentially from the camp just gone. Um, and so one of the pernient points was um access was a big one. So access in terms of you know, a lot of the participants have never had access to AFLW talent like that. They've never had access to a carnival in a camp that provided, you know, what we were able to provide over that course of the week. Um, whether it be the football competition, whether it be access to your you and Joey's, you know, expertise and education.
SPEAKER_00Um strapping skills.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the strapping. Um the you know, um access to even really quality food. We did a nutrition workshop, um, access to um, you know, swags and camping equipment and um just in general, the the overall ability to access things that metropolitan regions get to access every single day if they want to uh was a big sort of ticket item that we got back. Um the other side to access to is access to other communities. So we had 11 communities um come to Artitra, which was the host community.
SPEAKER_00Um let's just do a bit of perspective here. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Geo Geography.
SPEAKER_00It blew my mind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So Artitura was two and a half hours out of Alice Springs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. The other communities came from where?
SPEAKER_02Literally everywhere. So if you look at a map of Australia, you literally in the middle of Australia is basically Alice Springs. So that's you know, Central Australia is that region. And so the the market there is just massive. It it we had uh, you know, a community called Kintour, which is on the border of WA come, so that's 700 probably got the kilometers wrong, but at least 700 kilometres from our titra. So, you know, it's a good eight-hour drive on a dirt road. Um, then we had like northern communities come like Willara, so that's probably a good four, four and a half hours. Um, and then we had southern communities uh like Tichicala, um then we had Eastern communities, which is where our titra is as well, which is sort of like the utopia region. So you're literally engaging them from like north, south, east, west. Um, but if you can just look at a map of Australia, it's it really is like everything that's read is is they kind of all came into the one spot. And I think what people misunderstand about um you know, these sorts of regions and indigenous communities is they're all very different. There's there's multiple language groups. So, you know, at least, you know, three-quarters of the communities that did come have never been to Artitra before.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02Ever. Um so you know, I you know, I was on the field, I was like, oh, have you been here before? Like, no, no, it's beautiful. You know, they they have a comp they can speak a completely different language to you know to what they speak in Artitra, and that they, you know, so there's so much um, you know, cultural sort of diversity within each community. Um, and to be able to bring all of those communities together when I go back to access was a really big um takeaway from the camp, which is one that I probably didn't think of because, you know, I'm not indigenous and I'm not from a remote community. I, you know, wasn't really educated as much. I obviously knew about, you know, having, you know, worked and lived out there, but I just didn't have this concept of like, wow, actually being able to access other young people from other communities and seeing how they operate and seeing the leaders in their community and meeting them and making friends was a genuine real highlight and something that they otherwise have never really been able to access. So I really enjoyed that takeaway because for me, it was an opportunity and a platform for communities to really have this cultural pride and really model and you know, a behavior that's like, oh, I want to be more like our titra next year, or like, oh, that the way that she led her team was fantastic. And I want to, and so that for me was a real takeaway. And that was a big takeaway that we received as well was just the ability for everyone to connect and meet each other, share ideas, see what other communities are doing, what's working. Um and yeah, I think that was a was a massive takeaway. I think the other takeaway too um was just simply the the the opportunity and the ambition that it sparked for a lot of participants and their coaches and their leaders. Um, you know, they simply just do not get opportunities like this. You know, we their games were televised on the local community television network. They had seven AFLW players at their disposal, SNC trainers, volunteers, you know, the it was it was a big festival. And so that opportunity just does not happen in remote Australia because quite frankly, it's it's too hard.
SPEAKER_00Too hard to do, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um I think that was a massive bit of feedback. And then off the back of it, just the ambition um that it sparked, the the motivation that it sparked among communities um has been really pleasing to see. You know, we've I've had three or four communities reach out saying, can you host it at, you know, at our in our community next year? We've got this, we've got this, you know, they're trying to sell it to you. And and it's great because it creates this competitive environment of like, I'm gonna go out in here and earn it. And I think that's that's exactly what we're trying to do. Um so yeah, that's probably been the the feedback that we've received.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very interesting. Let's take a step back. When did it start? When did when did dream actually come to fruition in your mind? And you went, I'm gonna have a crack at this, took me, took us through that.
SPEAKER_02It started uh when I first started working out in Alice Springs. Um, I had a had a number of injuries down in Melbourne playing footy, and I was like, oh, and I'd always wanted to work in you know remote healthcare and among you know indigenous sort of population. And so I was like, oh, I'm just gonna take myself to Alice Springs and have do a bit of like a work, you know, something for me. And then um, and then it obviously turned into footy, which is fun. So sport never leaves you. But yeah, I I just saw a lot of confronting circumstances, I guess, um, having worked, you know, in the emergency department and Alice Springs, and um, a lot of those circumstances involve young women. Um, and I just saw how footy was the greatest connector joy. Um, I just saw how productive footy could be um in that community, more so than any other areas that I've seen sport be so um joyous and like just provide so much purpose. Um and I just figured, gosh, there's there's something I could do here that I think could provide maybe some pathways out of this um cycle for these young women and possibly, yeah, spark that ambition and spark them on a path that they want and they choose rather than um being sort of in this cycle of um, you know, quite honestly, trauma. And you know, it's it's it's so hard, it's a really hard space to work in. Um, and you know, people want to hear that, you know, you've graduated an AFLW player or someone's now studying at, you know, Melbourne University. And, you know, it the facts are is like that's that's our ambitions, that's our goals, that's not theirs, and that's not what the point of dreamed is. The dreamed, the whole point of dreamed is spark their dreams and it's their dreams, it's not ours. So when you talk about what our purpose is, it's like sparking that imagination, that dreaming, that ambition, that drive, and whatever that might be, helping them on the pursuit of that. And so it's very hard to define because you know, it wouldn't be a community-led organization, community-driven organization if I was the one placing dreams on them. So um, yeah, it sort of started because I've I just thought, bugger this, I've got to do something about it. I just uh, you know, I've I've got the the doctoring and the healthcare, but I'm like that this has got to start before that. It's got to start before I see them in an emergency department. And so I just figured where's the best place to start? What do they love? Footy. Like, well, that's handy because I play footy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Next Five Years And Leadership
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Um in terms of, I guess, the next five years for Dreamed and Further, what's the what's the big hairy audacious goal? Where do you want it to go?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this is I've got a three-pong-prong sort of answer to this. And the first one I probably already just covered. So there's the participants, which is at the core of everything. Um and the big hairy goal for that is whatever their big hairy goal is. And so that's the absolute number one. And that might be a really unsatisfying answer for maybe some of the listeners, but that's just the truth. And I think if you do it any other way, you're gonna be unsuccessful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because again, comes back to it's their choice.
SPEAKER_00You can't, yeah, you know, it's it's it, you know what, and I even it's like in you saying that, I catch myself, caught myself, have realized how many times when I was out there, I was like, why wouldn't they just want this? I'm like, that's just what that's what you want. And I guess there was an element of, you know, I remember discussing it with your dad, um, where it's there's materialism that I might value that they couldn't care less about, or and then it's just that perspective of going, oh yeah, you know, the world is so multifactorial, and every person's different, and every individual's an individual, and what they want might be different to you, and that's okay. And being accepting of that, it's really something that I took and I was like, oh, there it is.
SPEAKER_02And you do have to catch yourself because, like, the facts are we've grown up in a very different environment. So, of course, what we want is going to be different to what you know a young girl growing up in a remote Indigenous community in Central Australia wants. Like, that's yeah, that's just facts. So, not enforcing your goals on participants is very important, and listening and hearing and learning, and then trying your best to facilitate and support um those dreams is is is at the core of what we want to do. Um the second part actually is it's actually about mobilizing this professional network and mobilizing them in service and in giving back. Um and I find, you know, particularly in terms of the AFLW community and elite sport, it's it's about how can we add this layer, you know, so much of elite sport is selfish. Um, you know, it's all about you, it's all about your body. How can I prepare? What can I eat? You know, I need to get eight hours sleep, I need to recover. Um, it's just, it's just a consuming selfish lifestyle, um, which I really dislike. And it's probably been my biggest letdown as an athlete because like I I just thoroughly dislike how selfish you have to be sometimes. Um but it is, you know, it's the nature of the it's the nature of the the beast. But I don't think giving back compromises that. And I think elite sport has become so elite that we've gone away from that. And I think there is so much value and merit in giving back to an industry and the very thing that gives you so much purpose and drive. Um, because what would you be without it? You know, I would be like, I would be, you know, I guess a doctor, but maybe I wouldn't be a doctor without it. I don't know. Like, but I I know I'd have a big gaping hole in myself if I didn't have sport. And so I think just recognizing that and trying to mobilize an elite network, whether it be in sport or whether it be in corporate sectors and professional sectors, and really inspiring those people to give and expect nothing in return other than this pureness of I want to give back to the very thing that's given me so much. Um, and that's another part of dreamed that I really want it to achieve is to create this network and almost build um this momentum and I hate this word, but movement of elite athletes genuinely giving back um consistently. Um, and I think it will make them better athletes. They'll have they'll be in better teams, their teams will be better for it, um, businesses will be better for it. Um, so for me, that's another really big concept of dreamed. Um, and I guess the third one is you know, eventually mentoring a young woman from the region who's um going to lead dreamed and take it in the direction um that sh you know she believes the community needs, and um you know, she sets the agendas and the trajectory of the the future, and that's that's the ultimate dream.
SPEAKER_00Amazing, very powerful. Okay, selfishly, what have you gotten out of it and what does it mean to you now? Ironically, I'm asking. Yeah. Selfish question.
SPEAKER_02Selfishly, yeah. Um well I think this is probably where it's still growing because I think dreamed probably means like the most to me, and uh like for dream to be successful, it needs to mean more to someone else, or needs to mean more to the participant than it does mean to me. Um, that's when we know we're probably doing a good job. Um so that's probably the first thing is I want to open with. But for me, I mean it's it's it's given me a lot of purpose um in my sporting career and in my life and in my medical career. It's definitely guided a lot of that decision making around my future. Um and then I think this probably goes back to what I wanted to achieve with Dreamed and the elite communities, is it's for me, it's just made me see sport in just such a different way. Like obviously I want to perform and I'm you know very competitive, but I also just I really want to give back to this community, and that extends to like my teammates, and you know, going into you always hear, you know, go into a place and leave it better than when you arrived. And it's a it's a good thing to say because it's really what we should endeavor to do in every place that we enter. And I think that for me is what it means to me, is it it's it's given me a whole new perspective around what you can do in a high performing industry. You've still got to be high performing and you've got to have all those aspects to you, you know, whether it be your medicine or or you know your athletic career, but the high performance doesn't need to compromise the community element. In fact, the community element should never be compromised. It enhances it at least, yeah. Yeah. So um I think for me it's it's yeah, it's definitely like transcended every aspect of my sort of professional life and definitely enhanced my professional life because of it. And obviously I didn't do it with the intention of of that. But it's funny when you when you give, you don't expect anything in return. But I'm sure about you know your boy, like what you guys experienced, like I'm sure you got a lot out of it too. And like you gave up so much of yourself, but hopefully you went away exhausted, but like still like wow, I just got so much out of that.
SPEAKER_00And so um yeah, for me, it just it does, it it enriches you personally, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. You you could sit and raise money and give it and go, I hope it works, but but getting your feet on the ground, getting your hands dirty, there's there's nothing quite like that. And yeah, that's what I took out of it. It's just you know, so many people might raise money or contribute to charity and go on a parade or whatever it might be. It's like, hey, you're not doing the thing which is actually getting out there, getting into it. Um, and it's so much more powerful, and it's what much harder to do. It requires a sacrifice, but that's the point.
SPEAKER_02Well, it requires time, and I think that's the thing that probably is the limiting step. Um, is yeah, it requires time. And I and I think go back to purpose. It's like you it doesn't like you don't have to go start a charity or anything, but like, you know, get out into your community. It doesn't even need to be volunteering for a charity, like it could literally be, you know, literally anything. Like maybe it is joining your local footy club, and when you join the local footy club, you run water for the reserves team. Like it's as simple as that.
SPEAKER_00It's just I see it week in, week out. I mean, that's why I I do, you know, there's a professional element that I like to sort of bring to the rugby program we work with and and any sport or school or anything that we're involved with, but there's still it's it's really I'm I'm actually in a really lucky position in my career that I can go, hey yeah, like professionally I can add so much value that this is actually my career and I'm gonna charge for it. But I still also get to scratch that itch of I'm heavily ingrained in the community and I'm giving and providing. And if the organization itself can raise the money to fund an athlete's experience that they wouldn't yet otherwise have the means to access, and then we get to work with that person. That for me is like I'm just I'm so lucky that we can do that. So it makes a ton of sense.
SPEAKER_02That's what I love so much about science of fitness, though, is because it's it's not like it's elite training and knowledge and education available to everyone. You know, I'm such a like the word elite just kind of annoys me because I'm just like elite just implies that it's only accessible to those that are elite.
SPEAKER_00Those that deserve, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And like I have been in elite programs for over a decade, and not everyone's elite.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Like far from it. Like, you know, like I could probably count on like my two hands on how many like proper, proper elite, you know, athletes I have seen that I'm just like, wow, that is Ashrodell being one of them, Jazz Garner, like just elite in every aspect. I wouldn't even put myself in that category. I'll be honest. And like I just love how science of fitness makes this concept of elite accessible to everyone because it doesn't you don't need to like before be the athlete.
Funding Reality And How To Help
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, you can be anyone. Yeah, it makes sense. It's something that I wish upon my industry, and I I think we'll get there eventually. But um, yeah, it's an important thing, you know, high quality, uh particularly in the physical aspect. I think it's it's what we all need. Uh we have one brain, one body, and one opportunity in life to sort of live this thing, and you don't want to be a subject of pain or injury or illness, and physicality is a key component with that. So let's to bring it home. Really talk about the logistics because you know you can't just do these things without capital, without investment. Um how have you sort of navigated that? Who's jumped on board and helped you? Anyone listening to this that's keen on getting involved? How can they get involved?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Well, first and foremost, we were very lucky to have like a founding and principal sponsor in Durak Civil, um, who are Queensland-based company. Um, so Bianca and James Durac, and we ran our first camp last year and and they they backed me off a pitch deck um that I presented. So, you know, I had no nothing to show for it really at all, other than me like running around to all these communities, like just doing little footy like, you know, micro footy camps. Um, but yeah, had had no track record whatsoever, and they they backed me and they backed me to the first camp, and then off the back of that, they've backed us um for a few years and have come on as a you know a substantial sort of principal sponsor. So they other reason that dreamed can dream as well, which is super important. Um, we've we've also had um a drift clothing, which um my you know, full disclosure, my mum runs and owns, and they've um provided all the merchandise, so a lot of in-kind sponsorship in terms of providing all of our gear, um, which is just super fundamental as well. Like that's another thing, talk about access. Like I said to I said to mum, I was like when we were creating all the merch, I was like, it's really important we don't just create shit merch, like just shit throwaway crap. I'm like, I want these girls to be training all in the same singlets, the same singlets that I would train in at AFLW level because like that's what they deserve. Like, if we're gonna run AFLW standard, if we're gonna run science fitness standard sessions, like it needs to be that. Like they need to be in the same shirt, they need to feel how quality the fabric is, it needs to fit them right. It's like so for me, like that was really crucial because it's just so um, yeah, Adrift have have supported being basically our apparel sponsor. So they've um they've leveraged into the sports we're active, we're um industry now. Nice. Um, and then we've had a lot of individual donors as well, very, very generous individual donors, um, just throughout the the course of the last sort of two years or so, um, in addition to some local sponsorship too. Um, so the local McDonald's, the local shopping center have supported a lot of our stuff for the camps, um, which is fantastic to have local people involved in a local program. Um, and we're big on that. Um, but you know, money is what makes these things go around. Um, and I know that there is a lot of money that goes into, you know, a lot of you know, government money, and um, particularly in a lot of indigenous affairs, and it's very topical actually, since the events of of last week in Alice Springs, which were incredibly tragic. And, you know, there's now a lot of discussion around like, well, where is all this money going? And um, you know, what's actually the benefit, what's actually working. Um and I I definitely agree with all those those comments. Um, but at the end of the day, like the logistics of of living in literally one of the most remote places in the world, that's one of the harshest places in the world, harshest environments in poverty, really, is creates more barriers than one could possibly imagine. Like if you just walk through some of these homes, it's yeah, it's it's pretty devastating to see that that's that's happening in in our country. And I think ultimately the money and the funding is what allows us to deliver these opportunities and these programs. Um and the the biggest thing in this is is gonna be the consistency and the sustainability in that funding source. Um and that's absolutely paramount and probably you know, front of mind for me, in because there's no point doing this for a few years and then it imploding, and because you know, then you've basically built people up, built their dreams up, and then it's it's gone. And that's happened far too often for these young Indigenous people. It's just the rugs being pulled underneath them too often. Um, so that would be, you know, really devastating if that did happen, and it's not gonna happen because I'm not gonna let that happen. But um I think funding goes a very long way, but ultimately you need a lot of it to do these things. You know, it's a hard environment, it's a remote environment, there's a lot of challenging social circumstances. And if people want to get involved with what we're doing, um, we welcome all sorts of partnerships, whether it be financial funding, whether it be in-kind um sort of donations, whether it be through, you know, operational things like accounting services or graphic design. We were just talking about content creation, which is sort of a bit of a, you know, my mind's always at crossroads with content creation because I'm just like, I hate the idea of just broadcasting what we're doing for the sake of for the sake of it and like all this media, because I'm like, you know, this is meant to be community and all this, and it absolutely is, but ultimately a big part of also what we're doing is connecting remote Australia with West, you know, with the Western type of Australia. We all know, yeah. Yeah, and that's a big part is is communicating that. So, you know, the only stories people are hearing aren't, you know, horrible things coming out of Alice Springs, they're actually great things too, and success stories and amazing female leaders that are there. Like, that's crucial. And we don't hear about it because no one tells those stories.
SPEAKER_00It's so funny as we discussed flying out to Alice Springs, and I was like, Oh, you got an hour. Oh, and they'll roll their eyes. I got there, I was like, I was flawed. It's beautiful, yeah. Like it is actually, you know, I was lucky I grew up in in Africa. I grew up in the bush, and getting into Alice Springs was the first time in Australia that I was like, whoa, like this is in its own way so uniquely um wild, and and and then and you get energy from that, you know. It really um was quite special. And there was nothing bad. I saw nothing bad. You know, we see a riot, it's the first time Alice Springs has been on the news in you know how many months. And when everything's fine, we don't talk about it. It's like, well, yeah, yeah. We need to be able to celebrate the good stuff. So that makes a ton of sense to me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think stuff like that in terms of sponsorships or donations or support, whatever it might, whatever you want to call it, is is super valuable for us because they're expensive. Like making content is very expensive. You know, I'm not an accountant. I've I spend hours in the night in the early mornings, you know, being a graphic designer and working on zero or creating pitched, like all these sorts of things that like gosh, it would be great if I could just have these services donated or have this. So even if, you know, if you're sitting here and you've you've you've got a skill to like that, that would be incredibly valuable to how do how do people get in get in touch with you? Oh, well, we have a website, so you can reach out on website um www.dreamed.org um or our socials, dm us on Instagram, Dreamed Academy. Um I'm on LinkedIn as well. Um happy to share my my mobile number literally with. I think like literally a lot of people in community have my mobile number. I'm getting phone calls all the time. Hey Lulu, when's the next camp?
SPEAKER_03In the middle of something.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, honestly, just just reach out um on my personal, you know, socials website, um, mobile, if there's a way to attach that on this podcast. But um, yeah, we want to hear from you and we also really want to engage people in our organization that want to give back um and that care about sport. Like we are sports, you know, non-for-profit, if you will, and um we want to engage people that um, you know, might not have had access to be able to give back. You know, we spoke about giving back before, but like if you're an elite athlete, you sometimes you don't know where to start, you know, like and so yeah, if there is anyone listening that you, you know, you want to scratch that itch of like, oh, I'd love to volunteer or I'd love to do this, or you know, this is an avenue for you to be able to do it and it's an opportunity. Um, so yeah, just always we can always find um find work or or or purpose for you in our organization.
Closing Reflections And Gratitude
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Well, Lily, I don't think I need to say anything more. I don't think you do. It's uh this life you're leading is an impressive one, and uh I don't know if you stop and give yourself credit for that, but very few people are doing at least the first two topics that we discussed, let alone this final one, and uh and that that one's for me is the most impressive thing. You've given Joe and I an opportunity to really get out of our comfort zone and our box, our little healthy bubble of uh of our gym where you know people are wealthy and able to invest in their health, and we get to help them and we think, oh cool, we're doing good. And it's like, no, like go here and actually do your work there. And so, you know, you've given us that. So from us, you know, we just can't be more grateful and um yeah, we're just so excited to be a part of it and can't wait to just engage more. And um, you know, anyone listening to this, if you're not inspired now, then you might need to get your head read because what you're doing is pretty amazing and uh don't stop. It's it's it's really nice to be able to share the story, and um, yeah, I guess we're just so lucky to have you a part of our soft community and so glad we could give back. So thank you very much for everything you do.
SPEAKER_02No, thanks, Karen. I I like I want to give the listeners an insight into what these boys actually did on the ground in Alice Springs because you guys are genuinely legends. Like it's um yeah, it's no surprise you've created this empire community at soft that you have because it's just it's just who you are, and I think that's another lesson I've learned is like people are so important in these spaces, uh, good people. And um you guys like just you know, whatever needed to happen, you know, we rocked up to our teacher and there was just hundreds of girls everywhere, and you know, there was some organizational issues, and I just said to the boys, I was just like, boys, an hour of engagement, whatever it takes. And they sure enough had 200 girls separated on field, going hands, knees, toes, high knees, jump squats, lunges, like it was absolutely unbelievable. They did not stop, then they went on to the barbecue, then they were lifting eskies, then they were, it was just then they were strapping knees, and someone asked for a shoulder be strapped to think Joey's strapped, you know, buddy tape to the fingers instead. So like you just you did whatever it took, but more importantly, you you did it because you genuinely wanted to do it. And like you could see just I don't know how yeah, like how genuine it was, this thing of giving back, and it just it for me it looks so natural and effortless for you, and it's people like that that we want to bring into our organization, and so I just feel so grateful that you want to be a part of it and that you know we didn't kill you in Central Australia and you want to come back.
SPEAKER_00No, we loved it, we loved it, it was amazing. So, yeah, I think as I said, you know, it it the recognition doesn't need to go to you. Thank you for those kind words. But yeah, this is really amazing. And to anyone listening to this and wants to get involved, you've listened and found out how. So make sure you get in touch with Lulu and uh yeah, super excited to see where this all goes. Thank you very much for your time today.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Karen.
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SPEAKER_00Cheers. Thanks for tuning in to the Science of Fitness podcast. Be sure to check us out across all forms of social media and subscribe to this channel if you want to stay up to date to the latest episodes and any other anecdotes with which we might share across these video platforms. If you ever find yourself locally in Brisbane, be sure to drop into one of our facilities or down on the Gold Coast in Burley. You can also check us out at scienceoffitness.com.au and see all things relating to what we offer in programming and performance, whether it's online or in person.